Yeah, the SBR craze is due to operator LARP. Those guys use SBRs because they are familiar with the weapon using a longer barrel and because they need to hit targets at ranges far greater than your normal home defense scenario.
SMGs offer less risk of over pen, are quieter, smaller, and have significantly less recoil. Obviously, it's ideal to have FA as an option, but the recoil, size, 30+ round capacity, are all ideal for defense.
There is a reason law enforcement and hostage rescue still use these
9mm fmj is not going to be stopped by the thin walls of an American suburban home.
He didnt say anything about fmj
If your argument is "muh overpen through drywall," literally anything that will kill a human being reliably is going to go through more drywall than you have in your house.
>He didnt say anything about fmj
JHP isn't going to expand in drywall so it doesn't really matter, also many JHPs have a mechanically or chemically bonded bullet, some also have tough higher antimony cores. Most will penetrate as much or more through housing materials than FMJ.
9mm hollowpoints do not expand in drywall whereas 55gr 5.56 will fragment. It works even better with the carmines tipped shit. PCCshitters are so fricking stupid. Learn something you thick fricks
b***h literally watch the video I posted. The top projectile is m193 out of a 16" barrel blowing straight through 7.5 interior walls, aka 15 sheets of drywall, before it stops. Compared to a 124gr gold dot jhp and 00 buck penning 7 and stopping.
"5.56 is less likely to penetrate the walls of your house than 9mm" is nū-fuddlore, I'm sorry to break it to you
My point here, for the record, is not that 5.56 is worse than 9mm for home defense or house-clearing, simply that how many walls a given projectile will punch through should not factor into your decision-making because any round that's going to kill a human reliably will go through more drywall than you have in your house, so don't fricking miss.
>a single load did X >therefore all loads in the same caliber will do X
is this nigguh serious?
1 year ago
Anonymous
Well name loads and provide evidence then motherfricker
M193 out of a 16" barrel is the most common 5.56 loading out of the most common barrel length in North America by such a wide margin that acting any other way is laughable. The test is literally "how many interior walls will the most common self-defense loads penetrate?" And then an apples-to-apples comparison. >well I carry peepeepoopoo xm192847493 HE-tipped BTHPs
Lmao odds are 90:1 you dont even own a single gun, much less an AR, and if you do, it's a shit AR loaded with frickin winchester white box
You've got arguments to the contrary, let's see some frickin evidence then, not just anecdotes you read on this website that were repeated ad nauseam by other people who also didnt know what the frick they were talking about.
1 year ago
Anonymous
>Anon blows a motherfricker out so hard it kills the thread
Nah, the main benefit of the SBR is putting bigger holes in things meaning you have to connect fewer times to get good effect on target. The gulf between a fragmenting 5.56 round and an expanding 9mm JHP for instance is pretty massive in terms of wound size. That's a nice thing to have on your side if the bad guy is planning on putting up a fight. As far as the recoil thing goes I only really notice a meaningful difference between MP5 style delayed blowbacks and SBRs, direct blowbacks(even the meme ones) are pretty much the same recoil wise. IME even with the MP5s I'm not throwing out doubletaps appreciably faster, the two projectiles are just landing closer together, which is of dubious merit when both are still in the vitals and the 5.56 is making bigger holes. I like PCCs/SMGs and think they're plenty adequate for HD but SBRs have meaningful benefits.
I never needed a gun for self-defense, only for hunting, but I used to live in a really rough neighborhood and once scared off some home invaders with a machete which was weird, no one got hurt thankfully
>...and once scared off some home invaders with a machete...
Me too! I was alone when some racist white people came in after they trashed the place. my ma left me all alone and I was terrified. after I screeched at them to leave the police came in and did nothing.
That's when i decided to buy a gun and not give the curtesy of buying clean hollowpoints for when they eventually come for me again.
Newbie question, but why would you make an SMG that has the same barrel length as a pistol? With a bigger barrel, okay you get better accuracy and projectile speed, but this is just 2-3x the size of a pistol with same mentioned above stats. Looks like 4-5 inches barrel.
You don'tget significantly better accuracy, in short guns like these that's mostly determined by A. having a stock and B. optics, if presents and C. sight radius, which the MP5 still has plenty of. So, practical accuracy is a lot better than a pistol.
You also don't get a lot more speed from a9 inch barrel, over a 4-5 inch, for example, because most of the pistol caliber's powder has already burned at that point. For a home defense gun I'd rather have a 4-5 inch barrel with a suppressor than a 9 inch barrel only: I like my hearing, thank you very much. In that case, you wouldn't even want more velocity because you're shooting subsonic ammo.
All good points. IMO the main pro for the longer length barrels(let's say 8-10) is that if you're a bigger guy they're already pretty cramped and can get kind of uncomfortable to use for prolonged range time with lurch arms. The really short ones are even worse without a vfg, you're twisting your wrist at a pretty awkward angle at that point for instance. There's also the question of mounting a light/switch in a fashion that's easy to use without overcrowding the foregrip area. If I'm willing to run a 2 stamp gun for HD then the super shorties are overall better given the OAL increase of a can and ability to mount a VFG but if I'm not then a no stamp regular size works better for me. Velocity increase with them if anything is a down side, pretty much everything on the market is optimized for pistol length barrels and some loads may perform less than ideally with that extra velocity.
You don't get batter accuracy with a longer barrel. You get a flatter trajectory, which means less bullet drop to compensate for over long distances and with some firearms you get a long sight radius which may make it easier for the user to aim accurately. Neither of these equate to the gun actually being more consistent or accurate from a bench. That's a common misconception. In fact, short barrels are arguably more accurate because they will have less resonances and tuning, being inherently stiffer.
The question is what do you want from the gun and the ammo? When do you reach the diminishing return on velocity vs barrel length and how much do you value concealment?
The answer to your question is that heavy 9mm burns it's powder up in a pretty short length of barrel and if you want to suppress, that's going to add more length. Plus 147gr 9mm is considered naturally subsonic but some hotter loadings are right on the line. So, to make sure you avoid the sonic boom, it may behoove you to make a short barrel and pair it with a good suppressor.
I actually agree with you though. That gun is stupid, particularly if you aren't suppressing and even if you do suppress you have to replace the roller block to match the delay to the back pressure. Otherwise you could damage your gun. That's just annoying.
>even if you do suppress you have to replace the roller block to match the delay to the back pressure
80 degree locking block is like $50 and it's fine with the original if you use a suppressor with low back pressure. You watched a YouTube video but don't own one. Ask me how I know.
PCC's are a weird thing, where there is this tiny window of "you cant make an SBR this small" and "better than a pistol." Like its actually kinda hard to find a package that is both comfortable to use and more compact than an SBR
Because for the last century the number one thing you need to defend yourself from is your own government. Even with world wars, government violence against its own citizens remains #1. Therefore, you would need to know what armor your law enforcement and military use in order to answer this question.
If we didn't have the NFA, cheap full giggle PDW's would be amazing to keep in the car. Too big to carry around, small enough to stash in the car, powerful enough to fend off most threats.
I prefer the full size.
fpbp
pcc's are suppose to have carbine barrels
I have an AP5 with a binary trigger and it's pretty cool bananas.
Why don't you give me one then
>tfw you'll never be arrested and interrogated by a big busty British undercover operative.
Important question: Does the big busty British broad have a Brobdingnagian bush?
It was the 1970s. Of course.
whats the story on this
You see anon.. BOOBA!
https://reaperfeed.com/deadly-women-dirty-laundry-and-a-shootout-with-the-ira/
you don't own that mp5 you don't even have a gun way too poor for that money noguns
I have an mp5k with just a single point and a couple mags
still all anyone ever needs
im starting a security job and im debating on asking the owner if i can carry my fullsize
Yeah, the SBR craze is due to operator LARP. Those guys use SBRs because they are familiar with the weapon using a longer barrel and because they need to hit targets at ranges far greater than your normal home defense scenario.
SMGs offer less risk of over pen, are quieter, smaller, and have significantly less recoil. Obviously, it's ideal to have FA as an option, but the recoil, size, 30+ round capacity, are all ideal for defense.
There is a reason law enforcement and hostage rescue still use these
*sigh*
5.56 penetrates far less than 9mm
NTA but
No it doesnt lmao
He didnt say anything about fmj
If your argument is "muh overpen through drywall," literally anything that will kill a human being reliably is going to go through more drywall than you have in your house.
>He didnt say anything about fmj
JHP isn't going to expand in drywall so it doesn't really matter, also many JHPs have a mechanically or chemically bonded bullet, some also have tough higher antimony cores. Most will penetrate as much or more through housing materials than FMJ.
Good the 9mm posted in that video is a 124gr gold dot so I guess either way my point stands lol.
The 5.56 is m193 from a 16" barrel and the buck is 00, just so we're clear.
9mm hollowpoints do not expand in drywall whereas 55gr 5.56 will fragment. It works even better with the carmines tipped shit. PCCshitters are so fricking stupid. Learn something you thick fricks
b***h literally watch the video I posted. The top projectile is m193 out of a 16" barrel blowing straight through 7.5 interior walls, aka 15 sheets of drywall, before it stops. Compared to a 124gr gold dot jhp and 00 buck penning 7 and stopping.
"5.56 is less likely to penetrate the walls of your house than 9mm" is nū-fuddlore, I'm sorry to break it to you
My point here, for the record, is not that 5.56 is worse than 9mm for home defense or house-clearing, simply that how many walls a given projectile will punch through should not factor into your decision-making because any round that's going to kill a human reliably will go through more drywall than you have in your house, so don't fricking miss.
>a single load did X
>therefore all loads in the same caliber will do X
is this nigguh serious?
Well name loads and provide evidence then motherfricker
M193 out of a 16" barrel is the most common 5.56 loading out of the most common barrel length in North America by such a wide margin that acting any other way is laughable. The test is literally "how many interior walls will the most common self-defense loads penetrate?" And then an apples-to-apples comparison.
>well I carry peepeepoopoo xm192847493 HE-tipped BTHPs
Lmao odds are 90:1 you dont even own a single gun, much less an AR, and if you do, it's a shit AR loaded with frickin winchester white box
You've got arguments to the contrary, let's see some frickin evidence then, not just anecdotes you read on this website that were repeated ad nauseam by other people who also didnt know what the frick they were talking about.
>Anon blows a motherfricker out so hard it kills the thread
Hang on a minute
Afc south champions
You're a dumbfrick.
Fricking noguns.
9mm fmj is not going to be stopped by the thin walls of an American suburban home.
Nah, the main benefit of the SBR is putting bigger holes in things meaning you have to connect fewer times to get good effect on target. The gulf between a fragmenting 5.56 round and an expanding 9mm JHP for instance is pretty massive in terms of wound size. That's a nice thing to have on your side if the bad guy is planning on putting up a fight. As far as the recoil thing goes I only really notice a meaningful difference between MP5 style delayed blowbacks and SBRs, direct blowbacks(even the meme ones) are pretty much the same recoil wise. IME even with the MP5s I'm not throwing out doubletaps appreciably faster, the two projectiles are just landing closer together, which is of dubious merit when both are still in the vitals and the 5.56 is making bigger holes. I like PCCs/SMGs and think they're plenty adequate for HD but SBRs have meaningful benefits.
>law enforcement and hostage rescue
Have by and large switched to SBRs
there is no point in buying these things in america until the nfa is repealed
They're fun
Sadly, this. SMGs are super cool, but semi auto PCCs (fricking hate that that word exists) are the gayest thing ever.
They're nice for suppressing.
yeah
I never needed a gun for self-defense, only for hunting, but I used to live in a really rough neighborhood and once scared off some home invaders with a machete which was weird, no one got hurt thankfully
>...and once scared off some home invaders with a machete...
Me too! I was alone when some racist white people came in after they trashed the place. my ma left me all alone and I was terrified. after I screeched at them to leave the police came in and did nothing.
That's when i decided to buy a gun and not give the curtesy of buying clean hollowpoints for when they eventually come for me again.
>You do not need anything other than an MP5K for self defense
>You do not need anything for self defense
FTFY, learn to act confidently.
Newbie question, but why would you make an SMG that has the same barrel length as a pistol? With a bigger barrel, okay you get better accuracy and projectile speed, but this is just 2-3x the size of a pistol with same mentioned above stats. Looks like 4-5 inches barrel.
You'll still be more accurate due to the stable platform and originally it has automatic fire obviously.
You don'tget significantly better accuracy, in short guns like these that's mostly determined by A. having a stock and B. optics, if presents and C. sight radius, which the MP5 still has plenty of. So, practical accuracy is a lot better than a pistol.
You also don't get a lot more speed from a9 inch barrel, over a 4-5 inch, for example, because most of the pistol caliber's powder has already burned at that point. For a home defense gun I'd rather have a 4-5 inch barrel with a suppressor than a 9 inch barrel only: I like my hearing, thank you very much. In that case, you wouldn't even want more velocity because you're shooting subsonic ammo.
All good points. IMO the main pro for the longer length barrels(let's say 8-10) is that if you're a bigger guy they're already pretty cramped and can get kind of uncomfortable to use for prolonged range time with lurch arms. The really short ones are even worse without a vfg, you're twisting your wrist at a pretty awkward angle at that point for instance. There's also the question of mounting a light/switch in a fashion that's easy to use without overcrowding the foregrip area. If I'm willing to run a 2 stamp gun for HD then the super shorties are overall better given the OAL increase of a can and ability to mount a VFG but if I'm not then a no stamp regular size works better for me. Velocity increase with them if anything is a down side, pretty much everything on the market is optimized for pistol length barrels and some loads may perform less than ideally with that extra velocity.
4-5 inches is all you need though. Anything more than that is just unneccesary. Why do you make it sound like that's small, wtf...
You don't get batter accuracy with a longer barrel. You get a flatter trajectory, which means less bullet drop to compensate for over long distances and with some firearms you get a long sight radius which may make it easier for the user to aim accurately. Neither of these equate to the gun actually being more consistent or accurate from a bench. That's a common misconception. In fact, short barrels are arguably more accurate because they will have less resonances and tuning, being inherently stiffer.
The question is what do you want from the gun and the ammo? When do you reach the diminishing return on velocity vs barrel length and how much do you value concealment?
The answer to your question is that heavy 9mm burns it's powder up in a pretty short length of barrel and if you want to suppress, that's going to add more length. Plus 147gr 9mm is considered naturally subsonic but some hotter loadings are right on the line. So, to make sure you avoid the sonic boom, it may behoove you to make a short barrel and pair it with a good suppressor.
I actually agree with you though. That gun is stupid, particularly if you aren't suppressing and even if you do suppress you have to replace the roller block to match the delay to the back pressure. Otherwise you could damage your gun. That's just annoying.
>even if you do suppress you have to replace the roller block to match the delay to the back pressure
80 degree locking block is like $50 and it's fine with the original if you use a suppressor with low back pressure. You watched a YouTube video but don't own one. Ask me how I know.
PCC's are a weird thing, where there is this tiny window of "you cant make an SBR this small" and "better than a pistol." Like its actually kinda hard to find a package that is both comfortable to use and more compact than an SBR
I couldn't agree more, now where can I get one?
ok but 10mm
Don't those things beat themselves to death?
dunno. i doubt i'll shoot it enough for that to happen
>Cucked semi auto vector
Like driving a lamborghini stuck in valet mode
yeah at least its le 1 centimeter. i wonder if there are any bubba ways of making it auto
What are you defending yourself from?
Because for the last century the number one thing you need to defend yourself from is your own government. Even with world wars, government violence against its own citizens remains #1. Therefore, you would need to know what armor your law enforcement and military use in order to answer this question.
I need an MP5SD though
I also have an "MP5". A little big tbh...
I want an mp5k so bad bros
Repeal NFA
The Die Hard combo.
What about self offense?
What chestrig?
well if the brace ban goes through good luck buying a cheap mp5k clone
shut up cuck
You will get arrested if you take away all the limiters to make it a practical weapon.
can mp5 into 10mm pls?
It's been a thing since 1992 and it has an AR15 bold hold open and release
It's the canonical weapon of Rainbow Six too.
Unless you're the poor frick with the M60 that doesn't get any action. At least he got to punch a guy to death at euro Disney
I use my wiener as a SAP
If we didn't have the NFA, cheap full giggle PDW's would be amazing to keep in the car. Too big to carry around, small enough to stash in the car, powerful enough to fend off most threats.