> I want to go hiking here
Uh actshually you need xyz permits from abc
> I'm gonna set up camp in the middle of the woods
Nooo you can't do that you have to reserve one x specific campgrounds in advance
> I'm gonna wander off trail
Nooooo thats dangerous and you need to submit a request to abc local authority
> I'm gonna start a campfire here, using no accelerants, in an area not prone to wildfires, by snapping off dead branches (live logs are shit for fire anyways)
NOOOO YOU NEED TO GET A FIRE PERMIT AND THEN CARRY YOUR OWN FIREWOOD TO THE SITE YOU CANT HURT THE TREES LIKE THAT
I recently moved and all my PrepHole coworkers are like this, along with everyone else in the area.
Also what would happen if I got stopped/cited by a park ranger and just made a run for it? From the rangers I've met, I could probably outpace the majority of them, although most of them also dgaf about the above.
with rangers, most seem pretty chill and asking for forgiveness rather than permission works 99/100 times
>I want to go hiking here
Where? I need no permit to camp in my local forest.
This is on the middle east coast, say around the Appalachian trail
>middle east coast, say around the Appalachian trail
virginia, maryland? Around DC? even NC south and Penn north are gonna be broadcasted bureaucratic due to microstate mingling and meddling
Not true, I live in that hell hole and even our large state and national forests are permit-less for backcountry camping.
>national forests
So based. I am eternally jealous that Americans get to have thousands of square kilometers of wilderness that they are free to backcountry camp in.
The closest thing we have in Canada is crown land and there are tons of obnoxious restrictions on camping on it. You can't even cut your own firewood on crown land without a permit. So fricking stupid.
This must be a European thing. I just go outside and camp in my state or the neighboring state if I want to.
I usually did this too, me and some friends would just find an entry point and wander in as we pleased
>This must be a European thing.
No, anon.
The european way of doing things is:
> This activity is completely forbidden
As such when you decide to do it you are much freer than americans with their permits. You accepted you were breaking the law and as such you can do anything short of being a complete moron, you already broke the law anyway.
Be grateful anon. In Spain wild camping is illegal.
what you define as europe?
because the parts that has nature worth visiting has one rule
>dont camp close to someones house
it's illegal here
get me the frick out of here
Nta but wild camping in the UK is a hassle at best.
>permit to hike on the east coast
Never heard of this. If it’s a thing it’s probably in the most heavy tread parks
>reserve a spot
Only in National Parks and state campgrounds
>off trail
Absolutely allowed unless you’re in a national park or state campground
>fire regulations
Again, this only applies to parks outside of fire burns. But parks explicitly don’t want you bringing outside fire wood.
Just got to a national forest, Anon.
>Just got to a national forest, Anon.
I don't have a car and the start of a (very large) national park is easy to get to
>wearing unapproved shoes
Unironically the most flak I've gotten has been for not spending fricktons of money for equipment I don't need - military surplus and thrifted clothes have worked out for me so far
>Never heard of this
https://www.nps.gov/shen/planyourvisit/faqs-oldrag.htm
Visitors to Old Rag Mountain, including hikers on the Saddle, Ridge, and Ridge Access trails, must obtain an Old Rag day-use ticket in advance, in addition to a Park entrance pass. Day-use tickets for Old Rag Mountain for the 2024 season will become available February 17, 2024 at 10:00 a.m. Tickets are valid for the day-of arrival only, and it does not guarantee a parking spot.
Tickets will cost $2.00 and can be reserved up to 30 days in advance. A total of 800 tickets will be available each day from March 1 to November 30; 400 will be released 30 days in advance and the remaining 400 will be released five days in advance. Hikers are encouraged to obtain their tickets before arriving. Entrance fees still apply in addition to the day-use ticket. Learn how to get your day-use ticket by watching the following video or browsing the frequently asked questions section below.
Did you stop reading after my first sentence?
>If it’s a thing it’s probably in the most heavy tread parks
>cherry picks the most popular hiking destination on the east coast
it all comes down to over population. there's too many people so they need to make stupid rules because if they didn't it would get ruined by too many people camping and settling in the woods
Tragedy of the commons.
We need about 7 billion fewer people. Borders should be closed, abortion should be mandatory, foreign food aid should be prohibited.
We need mass sterilization at the very least.
This is a meme from the 70s and 80s when the world population was increasing (and the rate of increase was also increasing) by a ridiculous amount. Since then it has actually leveled off to a shocking extent, to the point where most countries have negative population growth (i.e. a fertility rate below 2.0). Even places like India and China which were supposedly ticking time bombs are basically at or below replacement rate. And yes, there are a bunch of people having kids in Africa, but first of all the mortality rate is extremely high there, and second of all every country has a fertility decrease as modern technology becomes available (African countries have also seen their fertility rates decline as they become more advanced)
Sorry to get all off-topic, but it really is true, us solitude enjoyers are going to win after all
On the one hand you're right, on the other hand, the ideal population size is just a fraction of the maximum carrying capacity. Less people means less competition on the labor and housing markets, les population density driving people insane, less degradation of the natural environment.
I disagree.
We need as many insane people being as irregular as possible, along with as much competition as possible, to force us to get to space.
If nothing forces us to go, we won't, and we'll just be a one planet species until we're vaporized by a passing neutron star blastwave.
>we should crash and burn our planet so we can go be pod people on some shitty rock in space
>most countries have negative population growth
So it's just a few countries increasing the world population. You know that's worse, right?
Any problems can be solved with "oh, sorry, I didn't know". Rangers and foresters deal with so many people that dont have a clue that if you seem remotely responsible they'll not do anything
I used to believe all this stuff, it put me off of the outdoors for years. It doesn't help that any time you try to look this stuff up online, it's just a bunch of websites and forums and blogs run by giant pussies who tut-tut at you for wearing unapproved shoes and whatever.
In reality, if you go to a national forest for example, there are people who will go in with chainsaws and illegally cut their own trails for miles and miles. I remember reading some big formal report about a state park system once, and they said that like 50% of the trails were "non-system", that is, they were just made illegally. The craziest thing is, their recommendation was to just make most of them be official trails. Really nobody gives a frick. Whenever I go out on the trail there are shotgun shells lying around, and holes in the signs (including the "don't shoot guns here" signs lol).
Just don't be a moron or start a forest fire or leave a bunch of trash out in the woods or something that actually fricks things up and you're fine.
Overpopulation.
because they don't want people living off the land it goes back to settler times when people established the first towns, they needed to think up ways to keep people in towns. So they'd pay tax.
Its got nothing to do with overpopulation
because republicans deliberately starve park and forest services for money, and parks can't make money selling drilling and timber rights like forests can, so they have to resort to price gouging hikers and campers for trivial fees and permits to stay afloat financially
ask yourself, who opposes funding increases for these agencies?
you basically summed up why I stopped camping more than annually and just switched to hiking. Too much research and planning is required so I lost the drive to do it
I would tell you but it's more of a conversation for /misc/ and not for PrepHole. Basically, a small part of it is actual conservation, the rest is (redacted).
What the frick are you talking about?
>When you're so moronic that someone replying to the OP's question confuses you
Stick to buying gear and then posting about it from your basement.
What the frick are you talking about?
Canadian crown land is pretty good with only a few restrictions
>many areas don't want you cutting down live wood (there's usually tons of deadwood though)
>you're limited to 30 days in one spot
>you need a license for fishing (cheap)
>you need a license for hunting and tags for big game
>you need a car to get there if you live anywhere near a city
>with only a few restrictions
No. I hate crown land so much.
What's there to hate? It's the perfect balance between freedom and conserving what we have for future generations. Without those few pesky rules, we'd end up with corporations clear cutting all our forests, fishing all our lakes dry, and turning everything within 3 hours of the city into strip malls and parking lots..
Also, the 30 day limit is important, because the most popular crown land spots are the ones that are easily accessible, and there aren't that many of them unless you drive 6+ hours north.
Read about the tragedy of the commons and try and reflect about how each of those situations you talked about touches on the concept. You’ll find the answer you seek.
None of this is a problem in Northern Yurop thanks to God-tier freedom to roam.
I haven't bought a back country pass in 20 years and the only reason I did last time was because I was taking a bunch of out of staters on a "classic" hike in a park.
I've had multiple park rangers ask to see my pass and when I played dumb they told me to pick one up after the hike...and they moved on and nothing happened.
The rangers you meet on the Trail aren't the same doushbags that drive the big SUVs but if you're going to camp illegally you can't be moronic about it--you have to know where to go and how to avoid karens that will report you.
cause the system has to cater to the lowest common denominator and lemme tell you. those people are beyond stupid
Because ur a slave goy and freedom is an illusion