For a single EU country the costs of such a programme are to high.
Not as in, they don't have enough money, but they are not willing to spend so much on a single undertaking.
And when European countries get together, wether Germany or France, or the UK and France, frogs usually tend to pull out, are not willing to cooperate with their partners and are being a general nuisance.
So yeah, they buy American instead.
For a single EU country the costs of such a programme are to high.
Not as in, they don't have enough money, but they are not willing to spend so much on a single undertaking.
And when European countries get together, wether Germany or France, or the UK and France, frogs usually tend to pull out, are not willing to cooperate with their partners and are being a general nuisance.
So yeah, they buy American instead.
Kraut and Bong Black folk tongue my sweaty cheesy summer anus.
Sad truth about EU in general. It is a autistic version of mexican stand where it is everybody waits for other ones to bend the knee.
Honestly I don't think it would be much better if f-35 was made by several companies instead of just one.
Eu really needs to stop acting this moronic and make 5th gen fighter plane and sell them at discount to EU members and export rest.
Why are Euros this way?
What is even the point of the European union if their industry refuses to cooperate?
>What is even the point of the European union
European market and Schengen area, to a large extent. >if their industry refuses to cooperate?
It's more complicated than that. Ultimately, everyone wants their own country to benefit the most. Because of this, it's hard to come up with terms that everyone agrees to. That's not to mention if one country suddenly decides they want to change the terms or pull out completely.
And remember, governments change every four years, often times very radically, not to mention that countries may often face domestic issues that can impair their participation and therefore the project as a whole
Ultimately it boils down to >Europe is not a unified country, do not expect it to act like one
Sad truth about EU in general. It is a autistic version of mexican stand where it is everybody waits for other ones to bend the knee.
Honestly I don't think it would be much better if f-35 was made by several companies instead of just one.
Eu really needs to stop acting this moronic and make 5th gen fighter plane and sell them at discount to EU members and export rest.
Wrong, Frenchtards are far worse at this. Perfect example being the Eurofighter.
>French are Le bad
You guys suck ass at making planes and refuse to hear us when we say we need the aircraft to be able to x and y tasks.
Ex: The Rafale. We needed a multi-role fighter with carrier-borne-capability, while Germany and UK, and others wanted a dedicated interceptor. That's why we left.
the french are the best aircraft manufacturers in europe
they dont need the rest of europe to bog them down
the rafale beat an F22 at a war games dogfight
>the rafale beat an F22 at a war games dogfight >The rafale beat AN F-22 >In a DOGFIGHT
Lmao even if this was true it's truly pathetic the lengths that Frogs will go to claim the Rafale does anything better than ANY given US 4.5th gen fighter let alone the F-22 or F-35. Tell me, what's the F-22 to Rafale kill ratio? Because raising it from 100-0 to 100-1 isn't as big of a victory as you seem to think.
Lol delusional moron, that's why they have the illustrious military powers of Croatia, Egypt, Greece, India, Indonesia, Qatar and UAE as their only customers?
>frogs usually tend to pull out, are not willing to cooperate with their partners and are being a general nuisance.
Welcome to another episode of "Anglo-German" scum being eternally butthurt and mad about France
With this most recent achievement, fate has in a single stroke, marked the decline of the west and spelled a new era of wondrous prosperity and peaceful global dominance for the Chinese dragon, which promises to firmly stand in sharp contrast to the historically bloody ascent of western powers and the cruel subjugation it brought to the humbler nations of the world. With the blessings of Chinese quantum direct-current electricity, quantum aircraft carriers and quantum enhanced railguns will be the instruments with which China affirms its noble stewardship of 21st century world politics and offers the non-western world a different option; an humanist alternative to the depredations of Western leadership and the opportunity for a more equitable and dignified multilateralism.
you post the wrong one every time
Impressive.
With this most recent achievement, fate has, in a single stroke, marked the decline of the west and spelled a new era of wondrous prosperity and peaceful global dominance for the Chinese dragon, which promises to firmly stand in sharp contrast to the historically bloody ascent of western powers and the cruel subjugation it brought to the humbler nations of the world. The blessings of Chinese >nuclear fusion imitation sun >plasma stealth technology >undetectable hypersonic combat vehicles >gaseous rubidium technology >quantum direct-current electricity >neutrino submarine detectors >hypersaturised turnpin computing >polygonical airfighters >rehubridating fields >refined pneumaticism >gamma titanium mono crystal turbines >mono-edge wertens >quantum aircraft carriers >double-pointed Heinmann engines >unmanned autonomous A.I. tanks >self-building submersible mines >protocratistic neural administration >hypervelocity air brolisters >tetrahedronical gas grenades >near-space ballistic air-to-air missiles >neuvon construction facilities >super light tanks >+2km range airburst rifles >quantum enhanced railguns >neurolaser satellite imaging >5G Remote Surgery >enhanced cobcrete >concretium superstructures >vao tree botanies >inverse particle accelerators >magnetized plasma cannons >trilithium retrigration reactors >vurticity ejectors >plasticized heat-seeking pyroammunition >quantum retrograde griminite airships >and quantum superalloy drones
will be the instruments with which China affirms its noble stewardship of 21st century world politics and offers the non-western world a different option; an humanist alternative to the depredations of Western leadership and the opportunity for a more equitable and dignified multilateralism.
Uh is the FC-31 even in production? Last I heard only the J-20 is in any noticeable numbers, so doesn't China have just 1? If a prototype counts than might as well give Turkey a 5th generation jet too.
Wouldn't that mean the americans already have a 6th generation jet then? Since didn't a fully functional NGAD prototype finish its' flight in 2020 or at least was reported to?
>Wouldn't that mean the americans already have a 6th generation jet then?
5+ for sure. Avionics and engine are probably about 5-10 years away.
And I'm Chinese.
Only the US builds true 5th gens, and recent conflicts show they are complete overkill for what any possible adversary can field to counter them. The others "5th gens" have the 5th gen edgy stealth look but lack severaly in key 5th gen aspects mainly avionics, network integration and stealth (suboptimal engine integration and internal weapon carrying capacity). They will have a hard time even reaching Typhoons, Rafale, and late model F-15 performance/capability wise.
Europe flies around in a mixture of (upgraded) 4 /4.5/5th gens, and that is more than enough to counter any threat for the next few decades. And for the period after that they have multiple development programs running that either work on 5/6 gen platforms or 5/6 gen technologies.
>look but lack severaly in key 5th gen aspects mainly avionics, network integration and stealth
what's your source? Your fricking butthole?
Why do you think the Chinese airborne AESA on the J20 isn't LPI capable?
>SK
asiatic please.
It hasn't even finished a 4.5th gen fighter that all the major powers (US, UK, France, Germany, Japan, Russia, and China) did decades ago while the rest are working on 6th gen.
There's an argument to put UK, France, Russia and China on par with SK military grade aerospace tech but Germany and Japan is pure delusion
Germany has good land tech but nothing in the skies
Japan has literally nothing and can't even produce 1990s vintage weaponry let alone an operational 4 gen fighter, a 6 gen fighter from Japan is the same as saying Nigeria is working on a 6 gen fighter, so ludicrous it engenders laughter among any rational person
The 6 gen they are connected with is basically playing the role of Indonesia in the KF21, just like SK (with LM) did 100% of the everything, the Brits are going to be doing 100% of everything with Japs only contribution being capital and probably not even having full access the confidential R&D developments lol, this is not even factoring that its going to realistically be 30+ years before any operational model is in the skies and by that time the US will be at 8 gen and SK will be at 7 or 8 gen, the fact that the UK is trying to get as many F35s as possible should tell you something about this 6 gen effort
Ok asiatic, keep believing that. In fact, there is a wonderful place for brilliant analysts called reddit. You should absolutely go there, clearly our /k/ smoothbrains can't understand your logic.
I've never set foot in SK, but just this past week of your shitty shill threads has made me wish we just let you get conquered back in the 50s.
2 years ago
Anonymous
Frick off back to your troony porn homosexual nobody gives a shit about your entitled kind anymore and there is a reason why everybody in the world hates your kind dumbass
2 years ago
Anonymous
This is the same type of homosexual that wishes the germans finished the job with the israelites for no other reason than his life is a failure so blame those that succeed for all of his shortcomings, the only good thing about this is at they eventually expose themselves like rats and are inevitably exterminated
2 years ago
Anonymous
I got no dog in the fight and never stepped foot in germany or israel but every time I hear about the mossad or some mysterious painful death of a kraut associated with the nazi it feels like justice is being served in this universe
>and that's why we don't export it to any nation
More like the paint alone was a state secret the US couldn't afford to lose as it could be applied on any other plane, the F22 is also strictly an air-superiority plane when everyone want multi-role now and know that level of stealth is more of a luxury.
A Rafale can and did outmaneuver the heavier F22, the cold-war F22 was not built to share targeting data either, which is were the F35 turd shine most.
The US are learning from the F35 clusterfrick and are designing high-attrition wingmen drones to take the bigger risk and the hits.
The 6th generation fighter will not survive on stealth alone, they will need wingmen drones and active decoys.
>designing high-attrition wingmen drones to take the bigger risk and the hits
Which in practice will turn out to be even more expensive than manned aircraft
>Which in practice will turn out to be even more expensive than manned aircraft
If they let Lockheed do the drone like the F35 yes.
In theory there's no way the drones can be less survivable/stealthy than the manned aircraft. The only reason we still need pilot is to take unexpected decision.
There's also the question of wether or not modern airfighter would actually survive modern air defense.
Ukraine isn't a good indicator since both side use Soviet-old equipments, the TB2 is a really small, cheap and rather discreet drone.
And a German F-4 blew the fricking Rafale out five times in wargames. In practice everyone knows the Rafale will never equal the combat ability of a F-22.
The F4 is actually a solid jet fighter but its 1960s vintage, but the Rafale is almost as big a scam as the eurofighter, who besides France uses the Rafale? Egypt and India and they are both being investigated for corruption, the US won't even give India F4s/F5s let alone even F16s and that's the only reason why India buys the Rafale lol
Blame Germany (and the US who lobby to sell their F35)
France want to develop the FCAS without asking for anyone's secrets.
But Germany is greedy and want everyone's secret or they don't work on the project. Especially France who could do the FCAS on their own, just cheaper.
For Germany military spending was (is still?) only a mean to keep the industries working, like "who care if Russia attack? Big bro America will sell us weapons."
The US of course is more than happy to do that, if Germany never learn to produce their own weapon, it will be too late to try making 6th or 7th generations airfighter and with networked equipments and drones they won't be able to replace one without loosing another.
>Especially France who could do the FCAS on their own, just cheaper.
I look forward to hearing about the completion of this project never.
France should just be happy that Germany is willing to put up with their undeserved arrogance.
Germany are the arrogant one, France did the Rafale alone and it is superior to the Eurofighter in every way, it's also more cost-effective than the F35.
Now Germany make all of Europe wait because they believe they deserve control over every aspect of the FCAS when France support "everyone will do what they do best" and Germany isn't better.
Germany is weak politically, that's why they let themselves get tricked into giving up nuclear energy, took 60% of their gas from Russian, and keep falling to US lobbying.
France should just tell Germany that they'll stop supplying energy.
Germans fricked up the electrical grid completely using renewables, in the current situation, without a safe Russian gas-supply it's basically hanging on threads tied to french nuclear power-plants.
German industry getting heat from natural and "biofuel" based gas will likely compete with private heating for supply in the winter. And the industry will get it as the factories must not cool down as this would destroy them.
German foreign and energy policy is based on deliberately making the country dependent on parties the evil German (in the mind of German politics) might want to suddenly wage war against, this includes France, France only needs to use the cards Germany dealt it.
This makes sense because it's summer and Germany can actually use the solar installations, it wouldn't be possible in winter as the "backup" for solar would have to be used by Germany itself.
>Germans fricked up the electrical grid completely using renewables
I wish...
At least it would imply they did go green. But Nuclear energy is already the greenest you could do and in the end they did the opposite.
>German foreign and energy policy is based on deliberately making the country dependent on parties the evil German (in the mind of German politics) might want to suddenly wage war against, this includes France,
I almost want to believe that
[...]
Bad timing to do maintenance. The good news is France finally have a President who said "Let's build more newer nuclear reactor" instead of worrying about saying the bad word in front of ecologist.
>I almost want to believe that
A good presentation in German on the state of German energy production and consumption (a bit odd sentence structure but auto translated subtitles work):
The basis for German politics is constant shame and fear remembering pic related.
What differs between the classical German conservative and social-democrat parties and the modern left and Green is if national suicide is to consist of dissolving the country into the EU or if this suicide should also include demographics (as openly called for by members of the Green party).
2 years ago
Anonymous
>it wouldn't be possible in winter
they did last year january and by a c**thairs width nearly causes a Europe wide blackout
>Germans fricked up the electrical grid completely using renewables
I wish...
At least it would imply they did go green. But Nuclear energy is already the greenest you could do and in the end they did the opposite.
>German foreign and energy policy is based on deliberately making the country dependent on parties the evil German (in the mind of German politics) might want to suddenly wage war against, this includes France,
I almost want to believe that
You realize that France's nuclear power plants are currently off and they import coal energy from Germany?
Bad timing to do maintenance. The good news is France finally have a President who said "Let's build more newer nuclear reactor" instead of worrying about saying the bad word in front of ecologist.
There is just NO military threat to Europe.
To the north is ice. To the east is Russia, which is done. To the south is Africa, which has never been capable. To the west is America, which is an ally.
im a europoor and it's 100% due to the f16 working for the time being
that's it.
it's a good plane and what're we gonna do, start our own airplane R&D while the americans are lightyears ahead AND willing to share their f35? I'd like it more if every nation in EU had small arms manufacturing, less research and development and easier to start off with. Buy quality, Buy american
Any failure of western European cooperation is a result of Russian and Chinese psyops. They helped engineer Brexit and actively try to divide the EU. Luckily Russia and China have the last couple of years reached record low approval in the EU population, so things might start to change. Way more than half of people see China and Russia as enemies according to polls. Even in Italy which signed the belt and road a vast majority now disapprove of China. Thanks Xi, if it wasn't for your ape out China might have been able to divide us further.
But to actually answer your question, it's because we leave that stuff to the Americans. They are, and always will be, out natural ally. We give them good trades, they design commie killers. Easy as.
US has two serial production gen 5's and several flying 6th gen prototypes
Russia has 4.5 gen mock ups
Korea has 4.5 gen mock ups
China has serial production 4.5 gen
Europe has.....hot gas
Yes, the Europeans aren't willing to spend shitloads of money jsut to pull evne when they can get F-35s and meanwhile invest into a 6th gen program instead.
Also, >thinking raw salary numbers actually tell anything useful
Mutts not having a proper healthcare system by itself already eliminates that difference and then some. And let's not even get into purchasing power.
The only thing Europe could do to change the problems created by social security is forced long-therm contraception (or vasectomy) for those living at the expense of tax-payers.
US healthcare is actually a well working system, it's just overpriced, due to stupid unnecessary regulations. Tax-payer based healthcare expense of the US is similar to the EU.
If it was up to me then welfare shouldn’t be a thing at all unless you lost an arm while working or serving in the military, same goes for pension. If you don’t have 3+ children you will not be eligible to get pension but it’s way too late for that, Europe is an infertile boomercracy.
>Mutts not having a proper healthcare system by itself already eliminates that difference and then some
You're moronic, there isnt a single engineer in the US that doesnt receive healthcare coverage from his employer.
So no, the difference isnt made up, and under no circumstance or scenario are european engineer salaries comparable to ours.
every house in America is air conditioned. jealous now?
The only thing Europe could do to change the problems created by social security is forced long-therm contraception (or vasectomy) for those living at the expense of tax-payers.
US healthcare is actually a well working system, it's just overpriced, due to stupid unnecessary regulations. Tax-payer based healthcare expense of the US is similar to the EU.
If it was up to me then welfare shouldn’t be a thing at all unless you lost an arm while working or serving in the military, same goes for pension. If you don’t have 3+ children you will not be eligible to get pension but it’s way too late for that, Europe is an infertile boomercracy.
Anyone who lives under a public healthcare system and actually shills in support of it is legitimately moronic.
Getting a bit /misc/ here anons.
America is the country with the worse disparity between poor & wealthy, so you may want to check wether or not honest citizen are being taken advantage of by a plutocracy who would replace you by robots and "passively" let you starve to death the moment it become a possibility (if you aren't dead from some unregulated opioid drugs).
Money sure get wasted in more social countries, but when setting the line (by democratic means) you may want to remember you could have been the one born unlucky.
And to get back on topic: it's hard to work together on a same project if no one is willing to come to a compromise.
>could have been the one born unlucky
I -was- born unlucky.
My parents had me at age 19 while they were working minimum wage.
I grew up poor as frick, but now I'm an engineer whose bank account grows because of endless wars, and it was only possible thanks to being American.
>(both) parents working minimum wage >able to afford engineering school
Sound unfathomably lucky & wealthy for many American who need 3 jobs to payback their own education.
2 years ago
Anonymous
I assume you're not American based on your phrasing, but the cost of college is primarily based on whether you're going to a private school or public school.
When it comes to STEM, the differences in education quality are much more narrow when comparing private vs public.
As an example, Berkeley, UMichigan, and Georgia Tech are all ranked in the top ~10-20 schools worldwide for engineering, but you could pay their tuition costs just by working at McDonalds while in school.
Of course, there's the private schools like MIT and Stanford which are ranked in the top 10 but cost 5 times as much. And while they create geniuses with connections, they are not by any means required if your goal is just to get a well-paying engineering career.
The whole "crippling student loan debt" meme is very real, but it's entirely from people that get homosexual humanities degrees from private no-name schools, just to end up unemployable because they cant just "go get a job at the local gender studies factory"
2 years ago
Anonymous
There's also the US misconseption of "College Lifestyle" being part of European "Free Education" Dorms and food are never included in what is free.
European free education is livig with your parents and working for low cost tuition or expensive housing.
It's possible to lake out a loan and go to an expensive private university in europe, it's simply not considered reasonable to do so unless you parents are able to afford it.
Pic related is also a good example of what the US riots about (as more parts of the US starts to look more like Europe with recent changes), assuming extremes to be normal outside the US, claiming what otheres consider reasonable to be draconian.
It's the same people that cry about the loan they can't pay back for being drunk in an airconditioned dorm while studying humanities with no employment-options.
2 years ago
Anonymous
>Pic related is also a good example of what the US riots about
This is really getting out of topic and your pic is outdated (exactly by the end of June).
ex: Tennessee, South-Carolina & Georgia heartbeat-bill make it illegal around 6 week.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heartbeat_bill#/media/File:Heartbeat_Bill.svg
Any American should also know that even before Roe v Wade was overturned the conservative states were making it a legal clusterfrick to keep doctor from practicing abortion, a ban without saying it.
A few of those "legal 21-31 week" also don't have providers.
2 years ago
Anonymous
> As an example, Berkeley, UMichigan, and Georgia Tech are all ranked in the top ~10-20 schools worldwide for engineering, but you could pay their tuition costs just by working at McDonalds while in school.
I graduated from UM AA with a BS-EE and this isn’t even remotely true.
2 years ago
Anonymous
Its trivially easy to get a full ride through undergrad education in the US. In my state everyone who has halfway decent grades/test scores gets a full ride at the state university, which is decent. The only people with massive student loan debt either somehow fricked up high school bad enough to not get a full ride or tried to live beyond their means going to a private school instead of state
2 years ago
Anonymous
>Its trivially easy to get a full ride through undergrad education in the US.
you're full of shit.
2 years ago
Anonymous
Not him but you’re probably just moronic
2 years ago
Anonymous
he's full of shit and you're a moronic poorfrick.
My top 10 US engineering school, when I went there, in a cohort of roughly 2000 students, handed out less than 50 full rides.
You're moronic.
2 years ago
Anonymous
>handed out less than 50 full rides
Stupid homie alert
2 years ago
Anonymous
you realize even merit scholarships consider need, right?
How poor and dumb are you?
2 years ago
Anonymous
I was poor, and now I’m not, imagine paying for college lmao
>Mutts not having a proper healthcare system by itself already eliminates that difference and then some
You're moronic, there isnt a single engineer in the US that doesnt receive healthcare coverage from his employer.
So no, the difference isnt made up, and under no circumstance or scenario are european engineer salaries comparable to ours.
oh and I specified engineers having healthcare coverage, because I only care about us, not the average minimum wage moron, they can drown in medical debt for all I care
>It's another episode of Americans complaining about Europe not having a stronger and more independant MIC while using political leverage and blackmail to destroy local MIC and get juicy weapon and supply contracts for themselves. >"WHAT? You want to build your own fighter aircrafts? No no no, buy our F-16s or else." >"Wtf, why don't you build your own 5th gen jets?"
This is all tiresome.
> Europe left the infrastructure in Africa, but not the technology, neither social institutions.
China had neither the technology nor the infrastructure when Europe left Africa, yet they still managed to build their own railroads
Single countries can't field the necessary funds for it & very few aviation companies that actually make fighters, only ones I can think of with the potential being capable of making something close the 5th gen Desault and Saab. There's also not a real threat to any of them since Russia is proven to be a paper tiger and Africa is Africa. They'll just buy the f-35 instead of trying to make their own.
Euros are skipping 5th gen or buying F-35's and then going straight to 6th gen. This is to save money and focus research resources as a fighter-jet program is an immense undertaking.
Nothing wrong with that considering Euro 4.5th gens (Eurofighters, Rafales, Gripens) can eat vatnik shit for breakfast and could go toe to toe with chinkshit.
China has none
Russia lmao
Korea has none
Europe is not willing to cooperate for it
Euros are skipping 5th gen or buying F-35's and then going straight to 6th gen. This is to save money and focus research resources as a fighter-jet program is an immense undertaking.
Nothing wrong with that considering Euro 4.5th gens (Eurofighters, Rafales, Gripens) can eat vatnik shit for breakfast and could go toe to toe with chinkshit.
>Euros are skipping 5th gen or buying F-35's and then going straight to 6th gen
They're not "skipping" 5th gen, they simply cant fricking make one.
Pretending to work on 6th gen is how they keep their industry from losing all tax funding and falling apart.
>can't fricking make one
How on earth did you come to that conclusion?
Britain was a tier 2 JSF partner and without RR the F-35B simply wouldn't exist.
Meanwhile EADS were developing a low-observable test-bed which was shelved when it was realised that Russia was broke ass.
Neither had working vtol until, the X-35 was developed into the JSF which then used a RR patented lift fan, built by Britain.
My point is chose not to ≠ can't.
2 years ago
Anonymous
>Neither had working vtol
The X-35 demonstrated VTOL and the X-32 demonstrated STOVL, this is easily verifiable information.
Where is the British 5th gen? They're incapable of even making a prototype.
2 years ago
Anonymous
X-32 didn't meet specifications and had worse performance, the X-35 met requirements and made use of the RR lift fan.
Where is the American vtol aircraft? They're incapable of even making one.
2 years ago
Anonymous
>no you
The absolute state of anglos, pathetic.
2 years ago
Anonymous
Americans thinking they're capable of innovating lmao
2 years ago
Anonymous
Britain buys American aircraft because it is incapable of developing its own.
2 years ago
Anonymous
Lol
Lol
2 years ago
Anonymous
>no missiles >no radar >in 1969 >meant to be bong frontline fighter with guns only
Harrier is unironically dogshit, the only reason it existed was because it was the only plane that crayon eaters could launch off their cuck carriers and pretend they are still seperate from Navy
2 years ago
Anonymous
>still brought by America because they couldn't figure out vtol
Lmao.
2 years ago
Anonymous
Yeas, only muhreens could ever figure out a use for a first gen fighter in 3rd gen era
2 years ago
Anonymous
It wasn't a fighter you gay moron
2 years ago
Anonymous
America and France keep buying out anything the Brits keep innovating and it pisses me off that the conservatives are just happy to let them lmao.
Mexico is third world anybody that's been there knows this, in reality to everyday people its more third world than Turkey or China or Russia by a fairly large gap
From what i understand there were several plans in europe between nations like france&england&germany&italy to build one, but american weapons industry aggressively lobbied that competition to death.
And right now many EU nations are getting their entire militairy budget getting eaten up by F35 purchases.
And i dont see the F35 become the same succes story for the EU nations as the F16's they got strongarmed in to buying by the US decades ago.
China and Russia have zero.
Europeans spend too much time knitting vegan panties or whatever so they just buy ours.
I know nothing about the Korean one.
The Germans tried to use the program to maximize their own benefit at the expense French. Remind me again why France should give away their painstakingly developed tech and manufacturing capability? The French government should just do the US thing and pay their MIC to develop emerging tech with other European providers as junior contractors only. If Germany wants to be a partner they can participate as a real partner and not greedy fricks just trying to grab benefits.
European politics decided that war is impossible after the collapse of the Soviet Union. So they just produce expensive boomsticks for third-world countries. Even their brand new tanks and hotwives produceв in ridiculous quantities, just to show them on promo videos
Because it was much cheaper and beneficial to both parties to get in on helping develop the F35. Why bother making a competitor when you can just help one design from a friendly nation be better and cheaper for you when its ready, or at the very least save money to buy that design over wasting it making an unnecessary alternative? Europe doesn't have a need to make a counter to American designs, quite the contrary with NATO its better for them to be as compatible with the greatest military force in their security alliance rather than making things difficult for themselves and their allies
Except Japan literally built a 5th generation demonstrator with an RCS lower than that of anything but F-22 and F-35 from scratch with 100% domestic technologies, and is developing the 6th generation F-X.
What is the meme obsession with countries wanting to have the "best" aircraft?
Sure the best option from both a financial and defensive perspective is to just make a 'good' aircraft which is cheap enough to mass produce, but good enough to put up a fight if it needs to?
Numerous European countries have either been part of the F-35 development or are buying it.
They are also trying tic are their own with Tempest and FCAS, though it will be wait and see with what actually comes out of them.
Ching chong
mutt
For a single EU country the costs of such a programme are to high.
Not as in, they don't have enough money, but they are not willing to spend so much on a single undertaking.
And when European countries get together, wether Germany or France, or the UK and France, frogs usually tend to pull out, are not willing to cooperate with their partners and are being a general nuisance.
So yeah, they buy American instead.
this but add germongs to the list of uncooperative shits
Wrong, Frenchtards are far worse at this. Perfect example being the Eurofighter.
Kraut and Bong Black folk tongue my sweaty cheesy summer anus.
tu ne vaux pas mieux
Frick off tourist
Why are Euros this way?
What is even the point of the European union if their industry refuses to cooperate?
>What is even the point of the European union
European market and Schengen area, to a large extent.
>if their industry refuses to cooperate?
It's more complicated than that. Ultimately, everyone wants their own country to benefit the most. Because of this, it's hard to come up with terms that everyone agrees to. That's not to mention if one country suddenly decides they want to change the terms or pull out completely.
And remember, governments change every four years, often times very radically, not to mention that countries may often face domestic issues that can impair their participation and therefore the project as a whole
Ultimately it boils down to
>Europe is not a unified country, do not expect it to act like one
>What is even the point of the European union if their industry refuses to cooperate
To enslave Europeans
Sad truth about EU in general. It is a autistic version of mexican stand where it is everybody waits for other ones to bend the knee.
Honestly I don't think it would be much better if f-35 was made by several companies instead of just one.
Eu really needs to stop acting this moronic and make 5th gen fighter plane and sell them at discount to EU members and export rest.
There's Tempest at least
Hopefully get into that proposed EU-lite and we finally have a Jsp/Euro sixth gen
>French are Le bad
You guys suck ass at making planes and refuse to hear us when we say we need the aircraft to be able to x and y tasks.
Ex: The Rafale. We needed a multi-role fighter with carrier-borne-capability, while Germany and UK, and others wanted a dedicated interceptor. That's why we left.
the french are the best aircraft manufacturers in europe
they dont need the rest of europe to bog them down
the rafale beat an F22 at a war games dogfight
>the rafale beat an F22 at a war games dogfight
>The rafale beat AN F-22
>In a DOGFIGHT
Lmao even if this was true it's truly pathetic the lengths that Frogs will go to claim the Rafale does anything better than ANY given US 4.5th gen fighter let alone the F-22 or F-35. Tell me, what's the F-22 to Rafale kill ratio? Because raising it from 100-0 to 100-1 isn't as big of a victory as you seem to think.
>at a war games
war games said Poland would be Russian territory in 3 months. They have absolutely no correlation to reality, never have and never will
Lol delusional moron, that's why they have the illustrious military powers of Croatia, Egypt, Greece, India, Indonesia, Qatar and UAE as their only customers?
and the egypt and india deals are being investigated for corruption lol
But you always surrender at the first hint of real combat, in all seriousness why do you think the French character displays consistent cowardice?
>the rafale beat an F22 at a war games dogfight
An A-10 beat an F-22 and F-16 in a war games dogfight. It's meaningless you stupid frog.
>frogs usually tend to pull out, are not willing to cooperate with their partners and are being a general nuisance.
Welcome to another episode of "Anglo-German" scum being eternally butthurt and mad about France
Exactly why UK partnering with Japan. EU mic is too politically sensitive to allow for effective cooperation.
I mean, what do you expect from us? Our history has been different flavor of killing each other until we discovered killing Black folk was more fun.
France alone could build it probably, but military seems to be underfunded starting from the Holland times, cause meh social security.
As a Britbong: Excellent job pissing off every salty bong/frog/kraut this is fricking hilarious. Especially good at annoying the Frogs
look at the fricking state of UK stupig Rossbeef
>Korean
no they don't? The KF-21 isn't one
>Russia
>Korea
4.5 gen at best. One is a minor upgrade for the Su 35 and one is can't even carry internal weapons.
The (first) prototype doesn't carry internal weapons, the series literally will.
they used their pretty little head and bought f-35s like a good girl
>Why don't F-35 partners develop their own 5th gen
>but muh free healthcare
it means frickall if you're dead
Europe is ran by rich old farts that literally launder money instead of investing it in overpriced projects. They don't give a frick about anything.
Are you talking about US ?
Impressive.
With this most recent achievement, fate has in a single stroke, marked the decline of the west and spelled a new era of wondrous prosperity and peaceful global dominance for the Chinese dragon, which promises to firmly stand in sharp contrast to the historically bloody ascent of western powers and the cruel subjugation it brought to the humbler nations of the world. With the blessings of Chinese quantum direct-current electricity, quantum aircraft carriers and quantum enhanced railguns will be the instruments with which China affirms its noble stewardship of 21st century world politics and offers the non-western world a different option; an humanist alternative to the depredations of Western leadership and the opportunity for a more equitable and dignified multilateralism.
you post the wrong one every time
Impressive.
With this most recent achievement, fate has, in a single stroke, marked the decline of the west and spelled a new era of wondrous prosperity and peaceful global dominance for the Chinese dragon, which promises to firmly stand in sharp contrast to the historically bloody ascent of western powers and the cruel subjugation it brought to the humbler nations of the world. The blessings of Chinese
>nuclear fusion imitation sun
>plasma stealth technology
>undetectable hypersonic combat vehicles
>gaseous rubidium technology
>quantum direct-current electricity
>neutrino submarine detectors
>hypersaturised turnpin computing
>polygonical airfighters
>rehubridating fields
>refined pneumaticism
>gamma titanium mono crystal turbines
>mono-edge wertens
>quantum aircraft carriers
>double-pointed Heinmann engines
>unmanned autonomous A.I. tanks
>self-building submersible mines
>protocratistic neural administration
>hypervelocity air brolisters
>tetrahedronical gas grenades
>near-space ballistic air-to-air missiles
>neuvon construction facilities
>super light tanks
>+2km range airburst rifles
>quantum enhanced railguns
>neurolaser satellite imaging
>5G Remote Surgery
>enhanced cobcrete
>concretium superstructures
>vao tree botanies
>inverse particle accelerators
>magnetized plasma cannons
>trilithium retrigration reactors
>vurticity ejectors
>plasticized heat-seeking pyroammunition
>quantum retrograde griminite airships
>and quantum superalloy drones
will be the instruments with which China affirms its noble stewardship of 21st century world politics and offers the non-western world a different option; an humanist alternative to the depredations of Western leadership and the opportunity for a more equitable and dignified multilateralism.
Until China's economy melts down, lol.
>2 more weeks!
Idiot
its in its way
Uh is the FC-31 even in production? Last I heard only the J-20 is in any noticeable numbers, so doesn't China have just 1? If a prototype counts than might as well give Turkey a 5th generation jet too.
the turkish one doesn't fly.
Wouldn't that mean the americans already have a 6th generation jet then? Since didn't a fully functional NGAD prototype finish its' flight in 2020 or at least was reported to?
>americans already have a 6th generation jet then?
Probably but why would let anyone know
>Wouldn't that mean the americans already have a 6th generation jet then?
5+ for sure. Avionics and engine are probably about 5-10 years away.
And I'm Chinese.
Russia and Korea don't
Only the US builds true 5th gens, and recent conflicts show they are complete overkill for what any possible adversary can field to counter them. The others "5th gens" have the 5th gen edgy stealth look but lack severaly in key 5th gen aspects mainly avionics, network integration and stealth (suboptimal engine integration and internal weapon carrying capacity). They will have a hard time even reaching Typhoons, Rafale, and late model F-15 performance/capability wise.
Europe flies around in a mixture of (upgraded) 4 /4.5/5th gens, and that is more than enough to counter any threat for the next few decades. And for the period after that they have multiple development programs running that either work on 5/6 gen platforms or 5/6 gen technologies.
>look but lack severaly in key 5th gen aspects mainly avionics, network integration and stealth
what's your source? Your fricking butthole?
Why do you think the Chinese airborne AESA on the J20 isn't LPI capable?
Call it what you want but the F22 mogs everything in the sky and that's why we don't export it to any nation
Next is the F35
Next is the KF21
The Russian and Chinese crap would struggle against an F15
Rafale and Typhoon below F15 too
Fighter jet tech today is US > SK > decade+ gap > Russia > China > Eurofighter > Dassault
Everything below these might as well be remote control toy airplanes found at a radio shack
>SK
asiatic please.
It hasn't even finished a 4.5th gen fighter that all the major powers (US, UK, France, Germany, Japan, Russia, and China) did decades ago while the rest are working on 6th gen.
Lol nips know they are castrated midgets
There's an argument to put UK, France, Russia and China on par with SK military grade aerospace tech but Germany and Japan is pure delusion
Germany has good land tech but nothing in the skies
Japan has literally nothing and can't even produce 1990s vintage weaponry let alone an operational 4 gen fighter, a 6 gen fighter from Japan is the same as saying Nigeria is working on a 6 gen fighter, so ludicrous it engenders laughter among any rational person
The 6 gen they are connected with is basically playing the role of Indonesia in the KF21, just like SK (with LM) did 100% of the everything, the Brits are going to be doing 100% of everything with Japs only contribution being capital and probably not even having full access the confidential R&D developments lol, this is not even factoring that its going to realistically be 30+ years before any operational model is in the skies and by that time the US will be at 8 gen and SK will be at 7 or 8 gen, the fact that the UK is trying to get as many F35s as possible should tell you something about this 6 gen effort
Ok asiatic, keep believing that. In fact, there is a wonderful place for brilliant analysts called reddit. You should absolutely go there, clearly our /k/ smoothbrains can't understand your logic.
I've never set foot in SK, but just this past week of your shitty shill threads has made me wish we just let you get conquered back in the 50s.
Frick off back to your troony porn homosexual nobody gives a shit about your entitled kind anymore and there is a reason why everybody in the world hates your kind dumbass
This is the same type of homosexual that wishes the germans finished the job with the israelites for no other reason than his life is a failure so blame those that succeed for all of his shortcomings, the only good thing about this is at they eventually expose themselves like rats and are inevitably exterminated
I got no dog in the fight and never stepped foot in germany or israel but every time I hear about the mossad or some mysterious painful death of a kraut associated with the nazi it feels like justice is being served in this universe
If you think Russia is ahead of Firefighter and Rafale, you're nuts.
>and that's why we don't export it to any nation
More like the paint alone was a state secret the US couldn't afford to lose as it could be applied on any other plane, the F22 is also strictly an air-superiority plane when everyone want multi-role now and know that level of stealth is more of a luxury.
A Rafale can and did outmaneuver the heavier F22, the cold-war F22 was not built to share targeting data either, which is were the F35 turd shine most.
The US are learning from the F35 clusterfrick and are designing high-attrition wingmen drones to take the bigger risk and the hits.
The 6th generation fighter will not survive on stealth alone, they will need wingmen drones and active decoys.
>designing high-attrition wingmen drones to take the bigger risk and the hits
Which in practice will turn out to be even more expensive than manned aircraft
>Which in practice will turn out to be even more expensive than manned aircraft
If they let Lockheed do the drone like the F35 yes.
In theory there's no way the drones can be less survivable/stealthy than the manned aircraft. The only reason we still need pilot is to take unexpected decision.
There's also the question of wether or not modern airfighter would actually survive modern air defense.
Ukraine isn't a good indicator since both side use Soviet-old equipments, the TB2 is a really small, cheap and rather discreet drone.
And a German F-4 blew the fricking Rafale out five times in wargames. In practice everyone knows the Rafale will never equal the combat ability of a F-22.
thats was proven false
The F4 is actually a solid jet fighter but its 1960s vintage, but the Rafale is almost as big a scam as the eurofighter, who besides France uses the Rafale? Egypt and India and they are both being investigated for corruption, the US won't even give India F4s/F5s let alone even F16s and that's the only reason why India buys the Rafale lol
>late model F-15
F-15EX is lookin' pretty groovy, baby.
>China has two.
Literally and optimistically
Blame Germany (and the US who lobby to sell their F35)
France want to develop the FCAS without asking for anyone's secrets.
But Germany is greedy and want everyone's secret or they don't work on the project. Especially France who could do the FCAS on their own, just cheaper.
For Germany military spending was (is still?) only a mean to keep the industries working, like "who care if Russia attack? Big bro America will sell us weapons."
The US of course is more than happy to do that, if Germany never learn to produce their own weapon, it will be too late to try making 6th or 7th generations airfighter and with networked equipments and drones they won't be able to replace one without loosing another.
>Especially France who could do the FCAS on their own, just cheaper.
I look forward to hearing about the completion of this project never.
France should just be happy that Germany is willing to put up with their undeserved arrogance.
Germany are the arrogant one, France did the Rafale alone and it is superior to the Eurofighter in every way, it's also more cost-effective than the F35.
Now Germany make all of Europe wait because they believe they deserve control over every aspect of the FCAS when France support "everyone will do what they do best" and Germany isn't better.
Germany is weak politically, that's why they let themselves get tricked into giving up nuclear energy, took 60% of their gas from Russian, and keep falling to US lobbying.
Delusional, the fact that the Eurofighter has the UK(BAE) in it makes it superior to the Rafale
France should just tell Germany that they'll stop supplying energy.
Germans fricked up the electrical grid completely using renewables, in the current situation, without a safe Russian gas-supply it's basically hanging on threads tied to french nuclear power-plants.
German industry getting heat from natural and "biofuel" based gas will likely compete with private heating for supply in the winter. And the industry will get it as the factories must not cool down as this would destroy them.
German foreign and energy policy is based on deliberately making the country dependent on parties the evil German (in the mind of German politics) might want to suddenly wage war against, this includes France, France only needs to use the cards Germany dealt it.
You realize that France's nuclear power plants are currently off and they import coal energy from Germany?
This makes sense because it's summer and Germany can actually use the solar installations, it wouldn't be possible in winter as the "backup" for solar would have to be used by Germany itself.
>I almost want to believe that
A good presentation in German on the state of German energy production and consumption (a bit odd sentence structure but auto translated subtitles work):
The basis for German politics is constant shame and fear remembering pic related.
What differs between the classical German conservative and social-democrat parties and the modern left and Green is if national suicide is to consist of dissolving the country into the EU or if this suicide should also include demographics (as openly called for by members of the Green party).
>it wouldn't be possible in winter
they did last year january and by a c**thairs width nearly causes a Europe wide blackout
>Germans fricked up the electrical grid completely using renewables
I wish...
At least it would imply they did go green. But Nuclear energy is already the greenest you could do and in the end they did the opposite.
>German foreign and energy policy is based on deliberately making the country dependent on parties the evil German (in the mind of German politics) might want to suddenly wage war against, this includes France,
I almost want to believe that
Bad timing to do maintenance. The good news is France finally have a President who said "Let's build more newer nuclear reactor" instead of worrying about saying the bad word in front of ecologist.
There is just NO military threat to Europe.
To the north is ice. To the east is Russia, which is done. To the south is Africa, which has never been capable. To the west is America, which is an ally.
ITT obvious assravaged Amerimutt shills replying to an obvious assravaged Amerimutt shill in yet another scripted assravaged Amerimutt shill thread
Meds. Now.
im a europoor and it's 100% due to the f16 working for the time being
that's it.
it's a good plane and what're we gonna do, start our own airplane R&D while the americans are lightyears ahead AND willing to share their f35? I'd like it more if every nation in EU had small arms manufacturing, less research and development and easier to start off with. Buy quality, Buy american
>Buy quality, Buy american
you're 100% a fricking amerishart
Name a better plane than the f22
The 6th generation UK jet
Just trust me bro, it really exists and evidence of its existence will be shown any day now.
The British empire will be reinstated in two more weeks, just trust me.
The F35 is better overall, given how much more versatile it is. It also has superior sensors, sensor fusion and datalinks.
No industry, we only have Airbus here building liners.
Any failure of western European cooperation is a result of Russian and Chinese psyops. They helped engineer Brexit and actively try to divide the EU. Luckily Russia and China have the last couple of years reached record low approval in the EU population, so things might start to change. Way more than half of people see China and Russia as enemies according to polls. Even in Italy which signed the belt and road a vast majority now disapprove of China. Thanks Xi, if it wasn't for your ape out China might have been able to divide us further.
But to actually answer your question, it's because we leave that stuff to the Americans. They are, and always will be, out natural ally. We give them good trades, they design commie killers. Easy as.
Correction:
US has two serial production gen 5's and several flying 6th gen prototypes
Russia has 4.5 gen mock ups
Korea has 4.5 gen mock ups
China has serial production 4.5 gen
Europe has.....hot gas
>Why European cant fifth generation?
it's not a mystery
Yes, the Europeans aren't willing to spend shitloads of money jsut to pull evne when they can get F-35s and meanwhile invest into a 6th gen program instead.
Also,
>thinking raw salary numbers actually tell anything useful
Mutts not having a proper healthcare system by itself already eliminates that difference and then some. And let's not even get into purchasing power.
>muh healthcare
I sure as hell love giving my money away so Achmed can have his 10 children and boomers get to go the hospital every week.
The only thing Europe could do to change the problems created by social security is forced long-therm contraception (or vasectomy) for those living at the expense of tax-payers.
US healthcare is actually a well working system, it's just overpriced, due to stupid unnecessary regulations. Tax-payer based healthcare expense of the US is similar to the EU.
If it was up to me then welfare shouldn’t be a thing at all unless you lost an arm while working or serving in the military, same goes for pension. If you don’t have 3+ children you will not be eligible to get pension but it’s way too late for that, Europe is an infertile boomercracy.
Getting a bit /misc/ here anons.
America is the country with the worse disparity between poor & wealthy, so you may want to check wether or not honest citizen are being taken advantage of by a plutocracy who would replace you by robots and "passively" let you starve to death the moment it become a possibility (if you aren't dead from some unregulated opioid drugs).
Money sure get wasted in more social countries, but when setting the line (by democratic means) you may want to remember you could have been the one born unlucky.
And to get back on topic: it's hard to work together on a same project if no one is willing to come to a compromise.
>could have been the one born unlucky
I -was- born unlucky.
My parents had me at age 19 while they were working minimum wage.
I grew up poor as frick, but now I'm an engineer whose bank account grows because of endless wars, and it was only possible thanks to being American.
>(both) parents working minimum wage
>able to afford engineering school
Sound unfathomably lucky & wealthy for many American who need 3 jobs to payback their own education.
I assume you're not American based on your phrasing, but the cost of college is primarily based on whether you're going to a private school or public school.
When it comes to STEM, the differences in education quality are much more narrow when comparing private vs public.
As an example, Berkeley, UMichigan, and Georgia Tech are all ranked in the top ~10-20 schools worldwide for engineering, but you could pay their tuition costs just by working at McDonalds while in school.
Of course, there's the private schools like MIT and Stanford which are ranked in the top 10 but cost 5 times as much. And while they create geniuses with connections, they are not by any means required if your goal is just to get a well-paying engineering career.
The whole "crippling student loan debt" meme is very real, but it's entirely from people that get homosexual humanities degrees from private no-name schools, just to end up unemployable because they cant just "go get a job at the local gender studies factory"
There's also the US misconseption of "College Lifestyle" being part of European "Free Education" Dorms and food are never included in what is free.
European free education is livig with your parents and working for low cost tuition or expensive housing.
It's possible to lake out a loan and go to an expensive private university in europe, it's simply not considered reasonable to do so unless you parents are able to afford it.
Pic related is also a good example of what the US riots about (as more parts of the US starts to look more like Europe with recent changes), assuming extremes to be normal outside the US, claiming what otheres consider reasonable to be draconian.
It's the same people that cry about the loan they can't pay back for being drunk in an airconditioned dorm while studying humanities with no employment-options.
>Pic related is also a good example of what the US riots about
This is really getting out of topic and your pic is outdated (exactly by the end of June).
ex: Tennessee, South-Carolina & Georgia heartbeat-bill make it illegal around 6 week.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heartbeat_bill#/media/File:Heartbeat_Bill.svg
Any American should also know that even before Roe v Wade was overturned the conservative states were making it a legal clusterfrick to keep doctor from practicing abortion, a ban without saying it.
A few of those "legal 21-31 week" also don't have providers.
> As an example, Berkeley, UMichigan, and Georgia Tech are all ranked in the top ~10-20 schools worldwide for engineering, but you could pay their tuition costs just by working at McDonalds while in school.
I graduated from UM AA with a BS-EE and this isn’t even remotely true.
Its trivially easy to get a full ride through undergrad education in the US. In my state everyone who has halfway decent grades/test scores gets a full ride at the state university, which is decent. The only people with massive student loan debt either somehow fricked up high school bad enough to not get a full ride or tried to live beyond their means going to a private school instead of state
>Its trivially easy to get a full ride through undergrad education in the US.
you're full of shit.
Not him but you’re probably just moronic
he's full of shit and you're a moronic poorfrick.
My top 10 US engineering school, when I went there, in a cohort of roughly 2000 students, handed out less than 50 full rides.
You're moronic.
>handed out less than 50 full rides
Stupid homie alert
you realize even merit scholarships consider need, right?
How poor and dumb are you?
I was poor, and now I’m not, imagine paying for college lmao
>Mutts not having a proper healthcare system by itself already eliminates that difference and then some
You're moronic, there isnt a single engineer in the US that doesnt receive healthcare coverage from his employer.
So no, the difference isnt made up, and under no circumstance or scenario are european engineer salaries comparable to ours.
oh and I specified engineers having healthcare coverage, because I only care about us, not the average minimum wage moron, they can drown in medical debt for all I care
every house in America is air conditioned. jealous now?
Anyone who lives under a public healthcare system and actually shills in support of it is legitimately moronic.
>It's another episode of Americans complaining about Europe not having a stronger and more independant MIC while using political leverage and blackmail to destroy local MIC and get juicy weapon and supply contracts for themselves.
>"WHAT? You want to build your own fighter aircrafts? No no no, buy our F-16s or else."
>"Wtf, why don't you build your own 5th gen jets?"
This is all tiresome.
I thonk you misunderstand. No one is COMPLAINING that EU doesn't build their own, they're just asking why.
>Korean has one
South Korea has a Gen4.5 which may someday become a Gen5.
Europe is the New Africa
>EU_6th_gen_program.png
Post percentage of white population in EU and USA mutt
Sometimes I wonder what these guys are doing today. Hopefully they're doing well.
That Chinese guy talking about fricked up railroad cars with a fricked up haircut.
This Chinese is retarted. Europe left the infrastructure in Africa, but not the technology, neither social institutions.
> Europe left the infrastructure in Africa, but not the technology, neither social institutions.
China had neither the technology nor the infrastructure when Europe left Africa, yet they still managed to build their own railroads
Somehow those little yellow monkeys didn't have that problem.
I'm not here to defend Yuros, I'm just here to post this in reply to that webm.
Single countries can't field the necessary funds for it & very few aviation companies that actually make fighters, only ones I can think of with the potential being capable of making something close the 5th gen Desault and Saab. There's also not a real threat to any of them since Russia is proven to be a paper tiger and Africa is Africa. They'll just buy the f-35 instead of trying to make their own.
China has half a one.
USA has two.
Russia has zero.
Korea has zero.
Euros have zero.
There is no country called Korea.
Best&worst korea reunification in our lifetime.
But only after china&US collapse.
Korea doesn't have one.
Russia doesn't have one.
Euros are skipping 5th gen or buying F-35's and then going straight to 6th gen. This is to save money and focus research resources as a fighter-jet program is an immense undertaking.
Nothing wrong with that considering Euro 4.5th gens (Eurofighters, Rafales, Gripens) can eat vatnik shit for breakfast and could go toe to toe with chinkshit.
>Euros are skipping 5th gen or buying F-35's and then going straight to 6th gen
They're not "skipping" 5th gen, they simply cant fricking make one.
Pretending to work on 6th gen is how they keep their industry from losing all tax funding and falling apart.
>can't fricking make one
How on earth did you come to that conclusion?
Britain was a tier 2 JSF partner and without RR the F-35B simply wouldn't exist.
Meanwhile EADS were developing a low-observable test-bed which was shelved when it was realised that Russia was broke ass.
>How on earth did you come to that conclusion?
source: the fact they havent made one
America hasn't made a vtol jet alone.
Doesn't mean they can't.
X-32 and X-35
Neither had working vtol until, the X-35 was developed into the JSF which then used a RR patented lift fan, built by Britain.
My point is chose not to ≠ can't.
>Neither had working vtol
The X-35 demonstrated VTOL and the X-32 demonstrated STOVL, this is easily verifiable information.
Where is the British 5th gen? They're incapable of even making a prototype.
X-32 didn't meet specifications and had worse performance, the X-35 met requirements and made use of the RR lift fan.
Where is the American vtol aircraft? They're incapable of even making one.
>no you
The absolute state of anglos, pathetic.
Americans thinking they're capable of innovating lmao
Britain buys American aircraft because it is incapable of developing its own.
Lol
Lol
>no missiles
>no radar
>in 1969
>meant to be bong frontline fighter with guns only
Harrier is unironically dogshit, the only reason it existed was because it was the only plane that crayon eaters could launch off their cuck carriers and pretend they are still seperate from Navy
>still brought by America because they couldn't figure out vtol
Lmao.
Yeas, only muhreens could ever figure out a use for a first gen fighter in 3rd gen era
It wasn't a fighter you gay moron
America and France keep buying out anything the Brits keep innovating and it pisses me off that the conservatives are just happy to let them lmao.
EU's aviation industry is more then capable to build one, it's just that the EU is too divided to get past the drawingboard.
Why doesn't Mexico have modern jets?
They need a modern economy first.
Mexico has the 15th largest GDP in the world...bigger than a lot of eu countries.
Mexico is third world anybody that's been there knows this, in reality to everyday people its more third world than Turkey or China or Russia by a fairly large gap
each f35 is at least 15% British, even more so for the B variant
BAE USA is not BAE (UK)
Manufacturing of the lift fan systems, ejection seat and rear fuselage are manufactured in the UK. Not an extensive list
You’re moronic and checking even the most entry level source (Wikipedia) proves it beyond reasonable doubt
China has none
Russia lmao
Korea has none
Europe is not willing to cooperate for it
From what i understand there were several plans in europe between nations like france&england&germany&italy to build one, but american weapons industry aggressively lobbied that competition to death.
And right now many EU nations are getting their entire militairy budget getting eaten up by F35 purchases.
And i dont see the F35 become the same succes story for the EU nations as the F16's they got strongarmed in to buying by the US decades ago.
The KF-21 isn't 5th gen you stupid chink
5th Gen aircraft design does not benefit refugees, sorry but funding has been withdrawn.
China and Russia have zero.
Europeans spend too much time knitting vegan panties or whatever so they just buy ours.
I know nothing about the Korean one.
Japan also has a fifth gen domestic demonstrator but it's not going to be manufactured, doesn't make sense for them. They're aiming for sixth.
OP wants the actual truth?
The Germans tried to use the program to maximize their own benefit at the expense French. Remind me again why France should give away their painstakingly developed tech and manufacturing capability? The French government should just do the US thing and pay their MIC to develop emerging tech with other European providers as junior contractors only. If Germany wants to be a partner they can participate as a real partner and not greedy fricks just trying to grab benefits.
>The French government should just do the US thing and pay their MIC to develop emerging tech with other European providers as junior contractors only
This is what Dassault wants and has done for the nEUROn Drone : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dassault_nEUROn
Though, I have no idea who would be the junior partners in this? Turkey? Spain? Portugal?
European politics decided that war is impossible after the collapse of the Soviet Union. So they just produce expensive boomsticks for third-world countries. Even their brand new tanks and hotwives produceв in ridiculous quantities, just to show them on promo videos
Because it was much cheaper and beneficial to both parties to get in on helping develop the F35. Why bother making a competitor when you can just help one design from a friendly nation be better and cheaper for you when its ready, or at the very least save money to buy that design over wasting it making an unnecessary alternative? Europe doesn't have a need to make a counter to American designs, quite the contrary with NATO its better for them to be as compatible with the greatest military force in their security alliance rather than making things difficult for themselves and their allies
>Russia has one
They also have two
Where?
It's camouflaged, so it's harder to spot.
>china
>fifth generation
you mean third? thats the best they have.
Wholly Americucked countries can't into 5th Gen.
See: Japan.
Except Japan literally built a 5th generation demonstrator with an RCS lower than that of anything but F-22 and F-35 from scratch with 100% domestic technologies, and is developing the 6th generation F-X.
neuron was the biggest mistake of eu ever
they should have continued its development and make it an actual weapon system instead of a tech demo
by now eu would have the biggest strike drone fleet
What is the meme obsession with countries wanting to have the "best" aircraft?
Sure the best option from both a financial and defensive perspective is to just make a 'good' aircraft which is cheap enough to mass produce, but good enough to put up a fight if it needs to?
because stealh is a meme
> I thought Europeans are smart people.
They are, they wont throw billians in a shitty plane like the failure f-35, we dont need it
>Russia has one.
a cheap knock off
Too many cooks in the kitchen
>iran has one
>yes, that is the actual picture of the wienerpit
>has a GPS reciever
It might still be more advanced than Su-57
>I thought Europeans are smart people.
Modern Europeans are NOTHING like their forebearers.
because we're already at 7th generation. But unlike amerimutts we can keep secrets and don't have to file retared FOIA requests.
Spent all their money on free healthcare and social welfare.
Numerous European countries have either been part of the F-35 development or are buying it.
They are also trying tic are their own with Tempest and FCAS, though it will be wait and see with what actually comes out of them.
>China has two
Not real fifth gens. Notice how Chang is now attacking Europe after Americans kept feeding him his own butthole?