Why does Ukraine want these? S-300 and S-400s can shoot them down quite easily. Posted on April 30, 2023 by PrepHole Contributor I don’t understand it.
Western long range missiles that they can't use in their migs.
It would unlock a lott of diferent munitions types and while it isn't the best for ukraines situation it's avalible in high numbers so getting it isn't too fat fetched.
Arent Russian R-77s equal to Aim 120s? What else can they fit into it? I can see f-16s having better radar and manoeuvre, but aren't both missiles nowadays fire and forget?
There's a lot of AIM 120 variants (like the AIM-9).
They aren't that good at intercepting fighters. As far as I understand, they just launch a lot of them against the Ukrainians and get some hits just by virtue of probability
Why putin wants more siberian meat? they're easily turned into minced meat.
No S-300/S-400 can't shoot them easily.
Ukraine wants them because there's a lot of them and they can shoot a wide variety of rockets, some of which allow to completely dominate air against SU-35 and others to reliably suppress and destroy S-300/S-400 from far beyond their effective range.
If Russia can get the wreckage of an F-16 that is shot down they can reverse engineer the tech and use it in their aircraft. More specifically the targeting technology and radar.
Mate if the russians don't have the tech in an F16 yet I don't know what to tell them
F-16’s get upgrades that Russia may or may not have yet. Specifically the targeting systems, radar systems even radar jamming tech gets upgraded quite often.
Ukraine is not getting the newest model.
If they send F-16s eventually, they won't send them with the latest upgrades or any fancy modern tech
If Russia needs to reverse engineer forty year old tech, we’ll that says more about them than anything else, doesn’t it?
moron they can't even produce THEIR OWN tech. They have to source chips from stolen washing machines and chinese toasters. They have 0 capability to reverse engineer and produce anything in any capacity beyond a cargo cult replica. If they did, they wouldn't be fielding museum pieces.
An f-16 can dodge a missile from s-300/s-400.
On the other hand, an s-300/s-400 will have a much tougher time dodging or shooting down HARMS fired from an f-16
If they have them in significant numbers, they can suppress the Russian AA, even if they suffer some losses in the process, it would allow them to provide more air-support for their troops, a significant improvement over what they can do now. It's unlikely the will get them tho. The Ukrainian airforce commander really wanted f-16s for the counter-offensive, saying that it's impossible for them to have a successful offensive without F-16s or anything that provides similar capabilities. He's probably exaggerating by saying that it's impossible to conduct a successful counter-offensive without having more air capability, but either way, it doesn't seem to have provoked any reaction by the west to start training pilots or preparing planes to donate them
Why does Ukraine want infantry? Even small arms can shoot them quite easily
Their logic is that they are made in big numbers. Can do human waves with them that way I guess.
Because they can't shoot them down that easily. Both sides have been flying daily over the last 432 days and both sides have battered but intact air forces. Picrel includes US estimates for aircraft casualties. SAM sites are not an insta-kill everything proof shield, they degrade the enemy over time.
Everyone here is saying air defense is the big factor of why conventional manned air power is not that big a factor in this war... that is a fucking lie. The real reason air forces have been a non-factor is very simple, Soviet/Russian equipment, PGM's especially suck ass.
Give Ukraine 100 F-16's with access to the full suite of Western air launched weapons and sure, half of them may be gone in a years time but between now and then the sheer amount of devastation they'll do to the Russian army is fucking ridiculous.
>S-300 and S-400’s can shoot them down quite easily
May I see it?
I guess if they get delivered to Ukraine you can
> S-300 and S-400’s can shoot them down quite easily
Maybe in competent hands.
But we’ve all seen how competent the Russians are
They Ukrainians did lose a decent chunk of their airforce. I don't know why PrepHole likes to pretend otherwise
The fact that it’s “a decent chunk” and not “all of it” says everything
>The fact that Russia lost "a lot" of tanks but not "all of them" says everything
Ukraine was not boasting about being the second strongest army in the world
Right, still good enough to cause a lot of damage to the Ukrainian airforce
No. Because if Russia was competent, there wouldn’t be a Ukrainian Air Force anymore. The fact that there is one, shows that Russia is incompetent. Therefore, the F-16 will have no problems with SA-10s
>60 fixed-wing aircraft, all types in one year.
That doesn't sound like "quite easily", especially considering Ukraine has been doing gravity bombing and dumb rocket attacks while F-16's use stand-off munitions.
How would they do that if most of the armament is standoff. So long as appropriately tanged missiles are given the F-16 never needs to enter Russian territory.
>60 fixed-wing aircraft, all types in one year
Ukraine doesn't have 5k planes FYI. 60 planes lost is a meaningful number for them
They just got dozens of new MiG-29's replacing most of those losses, I don't see how 50-100 more F-16's is going to hurt them.
>I don't see how 50-100 more F-16's is going to hurt them
What do you mean? I never said that getting F-16s would hurt them
It can fire long range missiles. Imagine a HIMARS you can have take off, get somewhere at Mach 2 to dump missiles.
It can be shot down but this is a much harder thing to do if it is just dumping standoff weapons.
Also, some F-16s can go up and, with help, locate those Russian AA systems. Then they fire radar seeking missiles at them. Then the S-400 gets destroyed or has to move, etc. Basically, you can't just set up air defense systems and run them at all times because then the enemy can figure out where they are. You turn them on when you have other systems giving you a warning, and try to get a good enough lock to fire. But while you do this your AA is also exposed to fire.
Also, if Russia ever does make a major advance, they will be pushing into Ukrainian AA without their own up. You can help stop the penetration with close air support. Much harder to safely set up AA on the move.
Russia did this with the Kharkiv collapse. Yeah, the lost an embarrassing amount of aircraft to MANPADS just hurling shit in, but by all accounts the aircraft did cause significant losses for the advancing Ukrainians and help stop the rout. Likewise, if Ukraine ever gets a breakthrough jets represent a way to have highly mobile AA come in to help defend the advance from the air.
Resale value is pretty good on those
Fox Three missiles, so they can shoot down those annoying vatniks from 160 clicks away, also GBUs.