What happened to the Russian artillery advantage? Didn't they have like 10,000+ artillery pieces compared to Ukraine's 1,000? They were making decent progress in Donbas by just shelling Ukrainian positions.
What happened to the Russian artillery advantage? Didn't they have like 10,000+ artillery pieces compared to Ukraine's 1,000? They were making decent progress in Donbas by just shelling Ukrainian positions.
Western artillery has superior accuracy.
Yeah, but it's not like the 10,000 artillery pieces just evaporate into thin air. They only lost like 1,000 tanks and that's with every Ukrainian soldier packing a ATGM
Actually it's more like well over 2000 tanks, and artillery requires maintenance and logistics to be effective. Those guns and ammunition stockpiles were wasted on pointless shit in Summer, and now that they're really needed Russians can't bring them to bear anymore.
Yup, Russia has suffered something like 1500 visually verified tank losses alone. The actual number is almost assuredly much higher.
Russia may have enough shells in Russia, bringing them to Ukraine is another matter. Their logistical framework is terrible.
ukraine has been devastating their ammo depos for months. one contributor to them leaving kherson is cause their ammo caches are depleted o destroyed
The guns didn't evaporate. Well, most of them. It was the ammo.
HIMARS have been hitting them for months.
'member ~5 months ago we wouldn't go a day without some warehouse detonating and sending a column of smoke 100,000ft up into the sky? Yea that was the ammo, it's all been cooked off, it took Russia a laughably long time to stop stockpiling inside HIMARS range, RIP
Those were some wild times. I think every major Russian artillery dump was blown up in a span of 2 weeks of HIMARS arriving to Ukraine. It's rare for a single weapon is able to make such a difference.
>They only lost
>only
>1000
>only
my dude, take a look at how many tank losses the USA has lost since the end of the Korean War.
Reminds me of when people were coom/doom posting about 20k Russians being trapped in Kherson and when most got away, vatniks were gloating that they only caught 2800 mobiks. Like in "haha we only lost 2800 man overnight".
Oh *that's* where that number came from. Frick I was looking at the Uke tally being like "What the frick have I missed", and it was their Kherson captures.
The latest estimate is almost 9000 AFV's lost, bro.
90.000 brudda
Artillery barrels don't last forever. Ammo doesn't last forever. Russia has shit capacity to restock both.
Their artillery ammo evaporated into several ammo dump explosions and Russian artillery was so innaccurate their weight of numbers was necessary to be at all effective, this they'd usually just expend several times the ammo for similar effect as Ukie artillery.
I think it's mostly the ammo which is slowing them down. Idk how compatible NK shells are to what they use? Might also be a factor.
>They only lost like 1,000 tanks
> "only"
(You) fricking moron.
I don't like Russia anymore than the next guy but
>taking either Ukraine or Russia's numbers at face value
I only trust Oryx and maybe some news reports
Oryx is not accurate. It is turkish propaganda! You can not trust fake numbers.
Do not believe everything you read on the internet.
You need to understand that Oryx's numbers represent the floor for any estimates. The actual number is almost certainly a lot higher than that.
This, Oryx is only visual confirmation. The real numbers are probably somewhere between Oryx and Ukraine's official, although which one is closer is anyone's guess.
If you hit logistics hard and control the hubs then 10,000 pieces can functionally become many, many less
They did, but now Ukraine has most of them.
Why you think Ukrainians spent most of the summer by blowing up ammo depos? Having quadrillion tubes from cold war days doesn't matter if you have nothing for them to shoot.
Russia is buying shells from north Korea though.
Can still be countered by striking the supply points.
Thats cool now get them all the way over to Ukraine
this. people somehow forgot how it was himars o'clock all night every night for like a month. you bounce come back from this.
you can't bounce back from this* frick i'm drunk
It's a lie right Z friends? It's all propaganda. We still have all our artillery. Ukraine still fears the rain of steel, right?
Attrition of ammo stocks and likely barrels as well. Ukies also have better counter battery options than the Russians as well meaning they can't just mass a bunch of stationary pieces and shell a place to ruins. That being said there are certain areas of the front where Russia still has a lot of materiel.
West brought the human-tier stuff so in an artillery duel, the Russians get clapped, for literally no return damage (HIMARS) or once in a blue moon (155mm SPA)
Russians lost tons of shit in their routs and tons of shit in the depot strikes.
And Russia's supply is shit by destroyed rails and roads, including Kerch bridge.
So anytime the artillery tries something funny the Ukies just smack it and relocate before the counter battery comes.repeat for 5 months. The artillery corps is down like the tank or Mobik corps.
Some real nightmarish terrain out here
Seems ideal for special forces raids if you have artillery support since it'd be painful to get backup there.
totally unrelated to thread topic but looking at satellite mapping of places in the far north kinda always gives me the spooks. looks like the earth itself was abrased
It was abraded, a few thousand years ago it was scraped clean by glaciers. They did such a through job that they killed all the earth worms halfway down to the equator, by tracking natural non invasive worm propagation northwards (10 feet a year) you can chart the furthest south edge of the ice sheet.
based geoscience enjoyer
When i moved inna woods in Maine 5 years ago first thing i did was walk around the property with a bucket of worms, some straw and a shovel. Dumped them every 20 feet. Now each year i can go out and there is literally a line in the woods that moves out 10 feet a year where you can see the underbrush changing character and where the evergreen sapling are all dead.
They usually survive that.
Don't forget that T-62s can't fight other tanks without NK AP rounds.
Maine anon hello I’m going to hijack this thread briefly
I’m in york
Where’s a goood spot to shoot
Where’s a good
No clue, i'm off grid inna woods near Jackman down a 16 mile dirt road so i just shoot where ever.
>When i moved inna woods in Maine 5 years ago first thing i did was walk around the property with a bucket of worms, some straw and a shovel. Dumped them every 20 feet. Now each year i can go out and there is literally a line in the woods that moves out 10 feet a year where you can see the underbrush changing character and where the evergreen sapling are all dead.
why?
It used to be mixed forest but was clearcut by logging companies for decades who used cropdusters with roundup to kill everything but the evergreens so they could quickly recut. The soil is really rocky and the leaf litter from evergreens does nothing to prevent erosion. The worms help restore it to being a hardwood forest with decent soil that retains water.
I murder every evergreen i can get my hands on, it's a goat ranch so i need lots of coppiced broadleafs to feed them. The worms help alot with that.
Thank you.
I admire the cut of your worm husbandry jib. The ten feet a year thing for some reason I find pleasing - that a seemingly insignificant thing (to a human) can be so significant. Blessed be the soilworkers.
Indretasing. What about floods? For the big flood events, underwater to the horizon, I wonder how fauna like worms can repopulate the affeced zones.
I know this is the case with Finland, but the glaciers of the last ice age didn't reach nearly as far down as that
Happened in Maine, all our worms are introduced. Everytime i go to town i drive by the halfway point to the equator, the town of Bingham has a sign announcing the fact.
/k/ is a high IQ board
A few months ago when Armenia vs Azerbaijan kicked off again and some guy asked what was up and why nobody gave a frick about Armenia despite being Christian, multiple /k/ommandos seemed to just casually explain two thousand years of Christian deeplore, schisms and sectarianism.
/k/ is unironically one of the most powerful boards.
>/k/ is unironically one of the most powerful boards.
This board has a blend of history and engineering autism that you can't really find anywhere else. Throw in a handful of anons that are knowledgeable in other sciences and it becomes one of the better places to discuss most things, as long as you can filter out the screeching /misc/cels.
One of the few left.
We take ourselves VERY SERIOUSLY around here.
That's really interesting.
IIRC that's how the Norwegian coast line was shaped too, dragging huge amounts of soil into the ocean and creating Denmark and Doggerland. Part of why the North Sea is so shallow and why Denmark can just spam windmill parks in it.
It was pretty much, the lines show glacial movements. The pools come through isostasy
I love looking at this part of earth on google maps. Shame there aren't more high res pics of it.
Benis
Suomi
A big issue that is not often talked about it barrel life. All artillery barrels are only rated to handle a certain number of shells before they start wearing out. In the best case scenario, the rifling just starts wearing out and gun accuracy drops. The worst case scenario, the barrel becomes structurally unstable and catastrophically fails during firing.
And replacing barrels is not a quick or easy process. That's typically depot level maintenance so that gun will be out of action for for weeks if not months.
We know that Ukraine has had to constantly send M777s back west to get their barrels swapped due to them practically firing them nonstop.
Even assuming the Russians are following proper maintenance schedules, the vast majority of their artillery fleet is Soviet surplus that has been out of production for years or even decades. It's very likely they didn't manufacture many spare barrels, or if they did, they've all been used up or misappropriated already.
So what you get is thousands of guns either being forced to scale back their use or being taken out of action altogether because they physically cannot keep firing reliably.
I saw a new clip a few days ago about a UA artillery unit firing 3,500 rounds. The gun they were using is only rated for 1,500 rounds.
>used or misappropriated already
Frickin tankie larpers buying up all the artillery barrels.
Slavshit enthusiasts already defeated Russia over a decade ago.
actually it's india, china, middle east and of course africa
>replacing barrels is not a quick or easy process
>Unscrew old cylinder, screw in new cylinder
>"Months"
We're talking about specially made barrels that weigh over 10,000 pounds, not a freaking MG42.
>Demetri you on other side of barrel da? Okay when I am saying go you are of lifting new barrel and holding in place while I screw in.
What do you mean is heavy? Lift with legs cyka!
In several interviews Ukrainians talk how less accurated the Russian Artillery got over the months. Even Russian sources stated several times that their artillery units hits nothing. Barrel life fricked the entire Russian Artillery Corp
A lot of frontline soldiers and conscripts keep complaining that they either get hit by their own artillery or it lands behind their positions. That's a pretty big indicator of worn barrels since with less spin, the rounds start losing range.
>they either get hit by their own artillery or it lands behind their positions
Also a major complaint by the Germans from 1916 onward. Verdun wore out a lot of German guns.
>Didn't they have like 10,000+ artillery pieces compared to Ukraine's 1,000?
Lot of stuff gets sold to other countries, a lot of it gets scrapped to sell off the metal, both officially and unofficially and a lot of it just doesn't get maintained for 40 year... even if it was supposed to and funds were provided.
At the start of the war everyone talked about the 20,000 tanks of Russia in reserve, but someone went through satellite pics and only found about 6,000, maybe 3,000 that were salvageable.
Fact of the matter is actions speak louder than boasts, Russia would not be putting unmodified T-62's and WW2 era artillery pieces into battle if they had more modern stuff in ready condition.
What proportion were functional/nonfunctional at the outset of the war? How many trained crews have been killed? To what degree has logistical degradation (loss of towing trucks, fuel for SPGs) affected artillery employment? How many tubes can Russia afford to mass in-country at the expense of other regions?
Many factors have emerged in the last 9 months that raise questions about Russia's actual superiority in long-range fires. And that's not even getting to how many pieces they've lost.
they ran out of shells because they forgot that war requires industry to sustain it
What is it like to cuddle with the woman you love?
Pretty nice if you don't mind the smell of other men's cum
This might be the reason.
https://defenceforumindia.com/threads/russia-naval-capabilities-to-deal-with-future-threats-part-1.83614/
https://defenceforumindia.com/threads/russia-naval-capabilities-to-deal-with-future-threats-part-2.83615/
https://defenceforumindia.com/threads/russia-future-air-space-capabilities-part-1.83620/
https://defenceforumindia.com/threads/russia-future-land-force-future-capabilities.83625/
10,000 artillery pieces eventually wear out and run out of ammo. Especially when HIMARs keep blowing up the ammunition dumps.
That's why Russia's having to rely on North Korea for more artillery shells they've burned through their cold war era stock.
Summary:
> Russia had a ton of artillery, but we have no idea how much they had that was functional. Might have been like the rest of the army and half was bullshit operationally due to corruption.
>To keep a lot of artillery shooting you need a ton of shells and Russia has laughable logistics. Even having 1 Billion shells does nothing if they are in Siberia and not Ukraine
> HIMARs turned Russian shell depots in Ukraine into a pretty deadly game of "Where's Waldo"
> Russian shell reserves might have been bullshit due to foreign sales, old stock from commie days being unreliable, corruption, poor storage practices, and a bunch of other stuff.
>Artillery barrels can only shoot so many rounds off. Russia fired a ton of it earlier in the war. Lots of pics of Russian tubes exploding from a few months ago. Doubtful Russia can keep up with replacing them given their struggles elsewhere.
>Russia has a lot of SPGs, Tanks, and other shit with a relatively small army, that incurs a cost in maintenance which they cannot possibly ever keep up with in a high intensity conflict. Ukraine has the advantage of western support and repair crews.
>Ukraine likely has better range (and spotting) at this point so Russia probably wants to focus artillery on areas where they can hit Ukrainians rather than areas where Ukraine can hit them from beyond their effective range
>They lost a lot due to retreats, captures and destruction. Ukraine is fighting back, they now have a lot of good artillery to go along with their own stuff and what they've captured. They also have counter battery RADARs and much more accurate guns, so Russia probably can't 1V1 Ukrainian positions easily with their shit-tier accuracy.
nato out spends russia 100 to 1. it's that easy.
russians are actual subhuman wienerroaches they frick every single thing up every single time
Counter battery fire , barrel wear and getting their ammo stockpiles blown up.
Himars in the hands of a people with the Soviet Union's artillery academy, and generations or rocket artillery experience, with extremely good artillery software.
Following Russian reports of gear isn't reliable. Here's a more truthful way of finding how much gear they have remaining: https://randomnumbergenerator.org/. It has the possibility to land on the true number, so it's infinitely more accurate than the Russian report.
We've been over this
>good number: divide by 2
>bad number: multiply by 2
>so it's infinitely more accurate than the Russian report.
MEIN SEIDS!
>more accurate than the Russian report.
Saying the report isn't accurate is 10yr in gulag for discrediting the Russian military
Therefore, report is not my problem
>Didn't they have
They have poor butt discipline in ammo dumps
Having more guns doesn't help if you have no ammo
>They were making decent progress in Donbas by just shelling Ukrainian positions.
They haven't taken shit in 6 fricking months, you stupid b***h. They haven't stop shelling at random for a single day.
That's what "were" means anon
But they weren't, is the point.
they've gone on record saying that they're wearing out their guns' bores and not given replacements, so they just fire away with zero accuracy nowadays.
Eventually Covert Cabal or someone else will make a real tally of Russian artillery, as he did for tanks, and we'll find out there's like 3000 of actually usable guns. And I'm certain the US military has known for decades, likely even father than early nineties. But those budgets don't write themselves. This whole thing with Russian army being memed as peer is just the Bomber/Missile Gap all over again.
>be russia
>spend decades bragging about your amazing artillery
>raze entire cities in Chechnya
>go to war against Ukraine
>ship some oldish US artillery to ukraine
>even in small numbers, it obliterates russian artillery and fricked their supply lines/ability to store ammo
russia is a meme country
>What happened to the Russian artillery advantage?
They spent their artillery barrels using WWI tactics, then they spent their ammunition firing wildly inaccurate barrages from worn out barrels, then they got their ammo dumps blown up by Himars and had to reestablish them further back. While all of this was happening, they kept losing artillery pieces to drones, counter-battery fire and general wear and lack of maintenance.
Turns out the counter battery equipment know as HIMARS is very good at counter battery operations. Crazy, I know
Just adding my 2 cents because I didn't see anyone mention it yet: the combination of crappy Russian logistics and HIMARS forcing their ammo dumps to be much further behind their lines than normal is also causing them trouble.
Even if, by some miracle, all their guns were properly maintained and had fresh barrels they still wouldn't be able to keep up the massive rates of fire like they did earlier in the war. They simply cannot get the ammo to the guns fast enough or in high enough quantities as they lack the trucks or the brains to figure out logistics. From what I've been reading their current artillery resupply efforts are at times very piecemeal and unstructured.
I bet a lot of their barrels are still busted to hell after that '600000 shells a day' publicity stunt that accomplished absolutely nothing.
russian artillery uses a lot of artillery for a barrage because its inaccurate compared to western artillery.
Their ability to actually get shells to their guns is terrible, and they forgot that for artillery barrels are a consumable piece of equipment that needs fairly consistent replacement after periods of heavy fire.
Gents: Here is some perspective on deployed Russian tank strength, supported by reliable references
https://www.kyivpost.com/russias-war/massed-russian-tank-attacks-a-thing-of-past-hundreds-destroyed.html
Key facts:
According to the 2022 Military Balance report published by the International Institute of Strategic Studies, Russia started the war with 3,417 functional tanks, of which 2,357 were built after 2000 and more or less modern.
Oryx, a Dutch defense analysis website and research group, reported in a Nov. 20 analysis Moscow has lost fully 40 percent of all the tanks Russia had in inventory before invading Ukraine. The web site features links to photographic evidence for over 1500 Russian tanks lost (i.e. 44 % of initial force). Of these 516 were up to date models with thermal sights etc. that are nowadays impossible to buy as replacements or for new production.
More details of Russia's 10,200 relatively modern plus 7000 tanks vintage (T55, T62 and T64) in storage can be found in this link:
https://kyivindependent.com/national/how-many-tanks-does-russia-really-have
Storage conditions varied widely meaning about 2000 of appear restorable, but not with hi-tech thermal sights etc.
Of these about 900 are effectively stored and could be restored to operational status fairly quickly
However, thanks to Russian storage, corruption, and training issues, as well as the high price in blood paid by Ukrainian soldiers, cold war visions of unstoppable hordes of well- oiled expertly crewed Russian tanks have been dismissed.
For the moment, the urgent tasks for the US and EU are to ramp up munitions, spares and overhaul capacity.
Coming to Russian artillery, their logistics capabilities are designed for meshed railway systems with heads close to the fight. The final miles from ammo dump to the guns via truck is their weakness and the Ukrainians exploit this usig manage HIMARs, drones and artillery to the point where they now have parity in rounds per day