War is Apparently a Videogame

Do these people think
>muh symbolic tanks
will magically unlock the German tank tech tree?
Scholz said Germany won't provide tanks on its own and has consistently followed American policy, but in the last few days I've repeatedly heard delusional weirdos talking about the big brained strategy of
>just send 10 challengers/abrams/leclercs and then Germany will be forced to greenlight 300 Leopards
Who the fuck came up with the
>muh symbolism
Approach?
Just send 100 Abrams and be done with it, Jesus

  1. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >could
    >could
    >if

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      OP here, the way I know Scholz he will absolutely expect real numbers of tanks to be sent by allies instead of falling for the
      >5% non leopards will unlock 95% of the tanks sent to be leopards
      logic
      But we know Britain and France can't send real numbers so it's basically up to America. People have built up really retarded expectations.

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        >can't send real numbers so it's basically up to America
        We can't either really. We haven't produced tank parts since Bug Lung shut down all manufacturers. Getting them restarted would take the better part of 2 years if we started today.

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          There's no point in producing new abrams when there are thousands left to upgrade.

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Scholz sucks.

        Honestly, the whole Bundestag sucks. They STILL can’t see the massive threat of Russia. They’re hoping to chip in a symbolic helmet here and there so that when Ukraine comes out the other side Germany can say “we helped :D!”

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          >the massive threat of Russia.
          Russia is proven to be a paper tiger.
          >They’re hoping to chip in a symbolic helmet here and there so that when Ukraine comes out the other side Germany can say “we helped :D!”
          Only America sent more aid overall and more military materiel than Germany.
          What the fuck are you talking about? Apologize right the fuck now you dumb cunt.

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          >Honestly, the whole Bundestag sucks. They STILL can’t see the massive threat of Russia. They’re hoping to chip in a symbolic helmet here and there so that when Ukraine comes out the other side Germany can say “we helped :D!”
          See

          https://i.imgur.com/2IWGKMQ.png

          >send the second most aid worldwide
          >butthurt slavs say you can't be trusted
          If that's Germany not trying, what would be the effect of Germany actually trying?
          And what's with the gibsmoron mentality?

          https://i.imgur.com/kQRaB1M.png

          [...]
          Anon's right.

          Who told you these lies, anon?
          I'm genuinely interested in where low-info posters with strong opinions like you come from. Twitter? Reddit?
          Not even kidding, do tell me.

  2. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    I feel like a bit of a retard here, but I keep hearing about X won't allow Y to send Y.item - on what grounds can X tell Y not to do something? Is it some kind of NATO agreement that everyone has to agree to arms shipments?

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      You can't send German tanks if you're not Germany without German approval because it's breech of the trade deal. None stops Germans sending anything(besides Gepard ammo because of mountain garden gnomes)

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        In the western world arms exports always have a clause that includes something along the lines of
        >you may not resell or donate these weapons without permission from the original seller
        To keep technology out of the wrong hands and bad press away from the originating country.
        So countries using the Leopard (or Abrams, Leclerc, Challenger) require permission from Germany (America, France, Britain) to give them to Ukraine.
        [...]
        That's the case for every country.
        What's "stopping" Germany is the same thing that moved the line of German deliveries from the very beginning and that's whether other people send the same stuff (Gepard was an exception since nobody really has something similar anyway).
        That's why the
        >muh symbolic 10 tanks to FORCE German to send stuff
        Is so retarded.
        Sending a meaningless number of tanks won't "allow" Scholz to send tanks according to the rules he set based on his gay SPD priorities because the number is meaningless.

        The solution is to send a number that isn't meaningless but nobody wants to do that, they want others to send their expensive tanks instead.

        Understood, thank you

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        I swear the SKs planted Sholz to make their MiC look better by comparison

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Why would anyone care about the trade deal. Just threaten to buy all your future tanks form the Americans if Scholz retaliates for sending Leopards.

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        >without German approval because it's breech of the trade deal
        I buy tank. It belongs to me now. Why do i need YOUR approval to do with the tank whatever I want to?
        If you dont like it, you will lose a customer.

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          Not how it works with tanks. Iraq bought Russian tanks because they had to ask the Americans permission to move their tanks around and had to keep telling them where they were. Yeah, you read that right. You are also aware that right now there is someone in the Pentagon who's job it is to keep tabs on Iraqi abrams tanks.

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            This is only reasonable for your own defense or if interests overlap. If you plan on helping someone out or fueling your own war campaign, the last thin g you want is someone telling you what to do with their tanks

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      In the western world arms exports always have a clause that includes something along the lines of
      >you may not resell or donate these weapons without permission from the original seller
      To keep technology out of the wrong hands and bad press away from the originating country.
      So countries using the Leopard (or Abrams, Leclerc, Challenger) require permission from Germany (America, France, Britain) to give them to Ukraine.

      You can't send German tanks if you're not Germany without German approval because it's breech of the trade deal. None stops Germans sending anything(besides Gepard ammo because of mountain garden gnomes)

      That's the case for every country.
      What's "stopping" Germany is the same thing that moved the line of German deliveries from the very beginning and that's whether other people send the same stuff (Gepard was an exception since nobody really has something similar anyway).
      That's why the
      >muh symbolic 10 tanks to FORCE German to send stuff
      Is so retarded.
      Sending a meaningless number of tanks won't "allow" Scholz to send tanks according to the rules he set based on his gay SPD priorities because the number is meaningless.

      The solution is to send a number that isn't meaningless but nobody wants to do that, they want others to send their expensive tanks instead.

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        So what number isn't meaningless, a battalion?

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        The solution is for Ukraine and Poland to open a corridor for Russia to invade Germany and for everyone to watch as Germany's joke of an army fails in a week and the many Germans who love Russia finally get to live under Putin

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          >the many Germans who love Russia finally get to live under Putin
          They are not Germans they are the 3 million Russian speakers that Russia left behind in east Germany. Literally unwanted mistresses and bastards and retards that did not get a place in the lorry back to Moscow in 1991 because no one cared.

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          Do you ever speak or think like a normal person or are you constantly blinded by butthurt?
          Nobody is sending real numbers of western MBTs to Ukraine the whole
          >symbolic 10 tanks teehee
          is a transparent political ploy (openly so, even) because people don't understand that it's not about 1 western tank touching Ukranian soil and suddenly 500 Leopards follow.
          How many western tanks has your country offered to send?

          >what's holding Biden back?

          Probably the usual "muh escalation" bullshit. Kind of hoped they would have grown out of it by now. Maybe once winter is over and we have an official count of civies who've frozen to death, that can then be used to apply some pressure.

          I hope it's a genuine wish to bleed out the Russian army, the escalation stuff is just gay.

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        >we won't send tanks until someone else does
        >and you can't send the tanks we sold to you either
        >ten tanks dont count! (Even though 10 challys is like 5% of the UK's fleet
        >America has to send tanks
        Germany is such a gay state politically, its shown so little leadership yet acts like it runs the EU. Love the country itself though

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          Most Germans are based, and are right. It's the poolacks that are problem

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          No nation has ever requested an export of their Leopard 2 tanks. Poland still hasn’t

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            Didnt Spain try in the summer?

            • 2 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              The Leopards Spain wanted to send were so poorly maintained that they weren't worth sending. IIRC they were out in the open for decades with zero maintenance done on them.

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          >>we won't send tanks until someone else does
          And nobody else does. So why are you mad at Germany?
          >muh symbolic 10 challengers
          Only count if you only want Germany to approve an equally symbolic number of Leopards.
          >>and you can't send the tanks we sold to you either
          According to whom? Nobody asked.

          How come every anti-German post is based on retarded fantasies lately?

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            >"we won't send tanks until someone else does"
            >someone else sends tanks
            >NO NOT LIKE THAT

            • 2 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              Anon, stop thinking like this is a video game when Scholz says others need to send tanks as well he doesn't mean
              >send 1 tank and I will send all of mine
              And you know that.
              You're just so used to being a disingenuous cunt that you think reality works on rule-lawyering as if you're being an asshole at a DnD table or a gnomish lawyer.

            • 2 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              >but he said he doesn't want to send tanks alone
              >and TECHNICALLY Britain will send (an insignificant number) of tanks
              >so he HAS TO send them!!!!!!!
              How old are you, 12? That's the gnomish way of thinking that made judaism 90% about tricking their own god with retarded loopholes.

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            >anti-German
            I think it's the current russian agenda: turn everyone on Germany and create turmoil inside NATO. I am guessing.

            • 2 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              50% that, 50% butthurt poles and brits. The poles are new.

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          >its shown so little leadership yet acts like it runs the EU.
          Germany doesn't want to run the EU, others want it to but without listening to it when they DON'T want to.
          Which explains why Germany doesn't want to fucking lead it, you morons you just whine for "leadership" (which means money for what you want) or cry about a dictatorship whenever Germany wants you to do something you don't want.
          So Germany rightfully has been telling you leeches to go fuck yourselves and let the frogs take care of it.

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Germany has stupid trade deals, the abuse the fact that the tank without maintenence is useless. You can't do anything with a Leopard without Rheinmetall's consent, otherwise is a breach of warranty or some shit. Poles couldn't even do a proper in-house maintenance without Rheinmetall sperging out. That's why they are so eager to mothball/gift those Leo's to Ukraine.
      >in b4 why would you ever by a German tank then
      Because nobody else is selling

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        All of that is untrue and based on fake news/memes/fuddlore.
        Jesus Christ, anon.
        Also it's KMW, Rheinmetall just supplies the guns.

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        >Because nobody else is selling

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          Well, Koreans are eager to provide the technology transfer and the whole maintenance service, unlike the Germans who usually just sell you the tank and call it a day.

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            >Well, Koreans are eager to provide the technology transfer and the whole maintenance service
            To get into the European market. It's not a Korean racial trait in your RPG/RTS, it's them giving countries an unusually good deal to get a foot in the door and won't be the case anymore once they're in.
            > unlike the Germans who usually just sell you the tank and call it a day.
            Germans and everybody else. You think the US/UK/France is in the habit of just sharing technology with second world nations?
            Poles are getting Abrams tanks but guess what they won't be getting (aside from the newest versions).

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        >Germany has stupid trade deals,
        Pretty standard.
        >You can't do anything with a Leopard without Rheinmetall's consent, otherwise is a breach of warranty or some shit.
        Wrong company and stuff like the Canadian add-on armor is just fine, what you can't do is build a new version with great changes without checking in first, which is also normal and reasonable considering how much you could fuck up in the process.
        >Poles couldn't even do a proper in-house maintenance without Rheinmetall sperging out.
        Wrong and wrong company. Fucking hell anon
        >That's why they are so eager to mothball/gift those Leo's to Ukraine.
        They aren't eager at all or they would've offered a real number.

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        yeah krauts are a walking disgrace. they cant just help themselves but keep aligning themselves with vatnik imperialism every fucking century. Previous round it was their land grab imperialism, this time it is some stockholm syndrome level simping for le epic economy block against those burger chuddites.

        I laughed my ass off when the news of poles and worst koreas dealings came through. Poland would rather deal with a state on the other side of the planet in building up a viable arnament industry then risk exposing themselves to nazi autism right next door.

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          >meanwhile in reality

          https://i.imgur.com/2IWGKMQ.png

          >send the second most aid worldwide
          >butthurt slavs say you can't be trusted
          If that's Germany not trying, what would be the effect of Germany actually trying?
          And what's with the gibsmoron mentality?

          https://i.imgur.com/kQRaB1M.png

          [...]
          Anon's right.

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      OP here, the way I know Scholz he will absolutely expect real numbers of tanks to be sent by allies instead of falling for the
      >5% non leopards will unlock 95% of the tanks sent to be leopards
      logic
      But we know Britain and France can't send real numbers so it's basically up to America. People have built up really retarded expectations.

      >could
      >could
      >if

      https://i.imgur.com/AuhOKgr.png

      Do these people think
      >muh symbolic tanks
      will magically unlock the German tank tech tree?
      Scholz said Germany won't provide tanks on its own and has consistently followed American policy, but in the last few days I've repeatedly heard delusional weirdos talking about the big brained strategy of
      >just send 10 challengers/abrams/leclercs and then Germany will be forced to greenlight 300 Leopards
      Who the fuck came up with the
      >muh symbolism
      Approach?
      Just send 100 Abrams and be done with it, Jesus

      The 30 nations of NATO and the 40 nations supporting Ukraine as well as the EU 27 and G7 are actually working wonderfully together as they generally do in trade, crime and many areas. They made a very definite and smart plan which we have seen two stages of
      1)Ukraine gets as quickly as possible ALL the old soviet stuff and ammunition we can get (the twofold purpose being it also prevents the Russians getting it). People who donate old soviet or modernised soviet get newer western shit in return and continue until the entire Russian invasion force is defeated as the Ukrainians are in defense and have the advantage
      2)As the Ukranian military expands, entire regiments of Ukranians trained in places like the UK to NATO standards begin to be issued NATO equipment such as light tanks, Bradleys, AMXs etc. On a separate track Ukraines air defense is continually broadened and deepened. Continue this until Russia has run out of combat pilots, experienced tank crews and artillery men, tanks, modern apcs and infantry fighting vehicles, fuel tankers, 4x4s, professional soldiers, bridge laying and fording equipment, engineering vehicles (a lot of this is done).
      3)Kill the Russian economy as soon as European winter is over and a complete trade embargo can close. Kill the first wave of mobilised and gauge the effect on the Russian public. Repeat if necessary. Reduce Russian strategic assets like cruise missile capable long range bombers, naval assets, nuclear arsenals etc etc (underway)
      4)When the Russians no longer have any APCs or artillery (tanks and combat pilots are already gone as are engineering and modern artillery as well as vast losses KIA/WIA/Deserted/POW) Hit them with the new model army. Hit them hard forcing a complete collapse in the field and mass surrender on the same scale as the collapse of the German army in ww1 in the west. Ideally have destroyed all railheads so they cannot escape.

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        >The 30 nations of NATO and the 40 nations supporting Ukraine as well as the EU 27 and G7 are actually working wonderfully together as they generally do in trade, crime and many areas. They made a very definite and smart plan which we have seen two stages of
        >1)Ukraine gets as quickly as possible ALL the old soviet stuff and ammunition we can get (the twofold purpose being it also prevents the Russians getting it). People who donate old soviet or modernised soviet get newer western shit in return and continue until the entire Russian invasion force is defeated as the Ukrainians are in defense and have the advantage
        >2)As the Ukranian military expands, entire regiments of Ukranians trained in places like the UK to NATO standards begin to be issued NATO equipment such as light tanks, Bradleys, AMXs etc. On a separate track Ukraines air defense is continually broadened and deepened. Continue this until Russia has run out of combat pilots, experienced tank crews and artillery men, tanks, modern apcs and infantry fighting vehicles, fuel tankers, 4x4s, professional soldiers, bridge laying and fording equipment, engineering vehicles (a lot of this is done).
        >3)Kill the Russian economy as soon as European winter is over and a complete trade embargo can close. Kill the first wave of mobilised and gauge the effect on the Russian public. Repeat if necessary. Reduce Russian strategic assets like cruise missile capable long range bombers, naval assets, nuclear arsenals etc etc (underway)
        >4)When the Russians no longer have any APCs or artillery (tanks and combat pilots are already gone as are engineering and modern artillery as well as vast losses KIA/WIA/Deserted/POW) Hit them with the new model army. Hit them hard forcing a complete collapse in the field and mass surrender on the same scale as the collapse of the German army in ww1 in the west. Ideally have destroyed all railheads so they cannot escape.

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          How the FUCK are there only 1000 prisoners of war?

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            moderate solution 🙂

            • 2 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              Kek

              Sadly we'll probably have to wait until a while after the Bradleys have been fielded. I get the feeling the burgers are hoping they'll be enough and wont send any Abrams until it's definite more is required. Tis a real pain in the arse.

              I understand Scholz not wanting to be responsible for 95% of tank deliveries to Ukraine but what's holding Biden back?

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >what's holding Biden back?

                Probably the usual "muh escalation" bullshit. Kind of hoped they would have grown out of it by now. Maybe once winter is over and we have an official count of civies who've frozen to death, that can then be used to apply some pressure.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >but what's holding Biden back?
                Biden has been wrong on basically every foreign policy issue over his entire career.

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            >How the FUCK are there only 1000 prisoners of war?
            There are vastly more. The Ukrainians do not publish the numbers of Russian POWs they have. Even more Russians have deserted

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            >How the FUCK are there only 1000 prisoners of war?
            There are vastly more. The Ukrainians do not publish the numbers of Russian POWs they have. Even more Russians have deserted

            Hololos don't take prisoner

            • 2 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              Based if true (but it isn't)

              I assume that Challenger and Leopards are sent because there are Ukrainian soldiers and Maintainers that received a proper training in operating and repairing them on top of Ukraine preparing a proper Logistical lines to keep those tanks functional. Sending 10 Abrams while there's no crews or proper mechanics to use these would be pointless if Ukies don't have any of that.

              Unless that's exactly what Germas wants. Waste months to even a extra year before Ukraine can use those Abrams and in the meantime Ukies will have to rely on old post soviet tanks from Ex-Warsaw pact countries.

              Challengers were sent as a retarded gesture to make up for the lack of IFVs sent when everybody else did it a couple days ago.
              Plus
              >muh taboo is now broken, Germany will now authorize hundreds of Leopards to be sent
              Might have played a part in it due to the currylord being retarded and not realizing that it's not about gestures but actual volume of materiel.
              >I assume that Challenger and Leopards are sent because there are Ukrainian soldiers and Maintainers that received a proper training in operating and repairing them on top of Ukraine preparing a proper Logistical lines to keep those tanks functional.
              None of that is the case by the way.
              > Sending 10 Abrams while there's no crews or proper mechanics to use these would be pointless if Ukies don't have any of that.
              They have an equal amount of training and logistics for any of the western tanks right now. So none at all.
              >Unless that's exactly what Germas wants.
              Don't be retarded on purpose.

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            You seen the hammer vid?
            That's what happens when you get sent back to Russia in a prisoner exchange.
            Probably a lot easier to say "yeah they died, here's their tags, body's uh, probably gone by now" and send them off to some western Euro country as a "refugee".

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        The biggest midwit take is that there’s any kind of plan at all. This is some qanon tier retardation. You chuds are all completely unhinged lunatics that are completely out of touch with reality. The American empire was collapsing from internal forces before this war due to the sheer incompetence of its leadership. That trump was an improvement is truly the peak of comedy, and you expect us to believe these incompetent fools that haven’t won a war in twenty years, haven’t been able to address any of their internal crisis, is somehow in control?

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          >The biggest midwit take is that there’s any kind of plan at all.

          >Anon, that is political pressure - or - its America having to jump first to get Germany to jump first. Either way.
          Anon, these decisions aren't made a minute after America sent anything, they talk about what they send before they actually send anything major. They just pretend they don't to not add fuel to Russia's
          >muh NATO proxywar
          narrative.
          Did you actually believe France, America and Germany all spontaneously decided to send IFVs on the same day?

          >Did you actually believe France, America and Germany all spontaneously decided to send IFVs on the same day?

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            >false equivalence
            Colour me surprised anon, you’re just as dumb as I would’ve expected. And for my next trick I plan to do something that I will immediately back out of or alter because my “plan” is just the whims of the moment

            • 2 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              >there is no kind of plan at all
              >except for this coordinated effort planned out over weeks/months, that one doesn't count though
              okay bro

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >Upon adjourning this committee, I hear you motion to have this brought up at the next roundtable to be addressed immediately by the oversight board and to have an action plan put in place to ensure that our policies are deployed according to the process laid out at the last hearing.
                I’m sure you’ll figure it out eventually anon

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Anon, even if we take your faggy exaggeration as the literal truth that would still mean there's a plan.
                Which means you are categorically wrong.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Kek, guess I shouldn’t be surprised that tourists are all fags. I’m gonna go back to my non-pol PrepHole threads now because you guys are too dumb to converse with.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Post guns on engine block before you do.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                You've said literally nothing, it's impressive how little value you've managed to deliver with the amount of words you've used. You've just arrogantly asserted some waffle you won't even defend

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >I posted something retarded and can't defend it so now I'm going to run away like the pussy I am
                Goodbye, retard

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                You have to go back

            • 2 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              The false equivalence of what?

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                You’ll figure it out anon, I believe in you.

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          >The biggest midwit take is that there’s any kind of plan at all.
          based

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          If NATO has no plan at all, then doesn't that make this even more humiliating for Russia? They're just absentmindedly throwing table scraps at Ukraine without any clear plan of action, and it's still enough to curbstomp the vatnik meat waves

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            To be fair, it's not like Russia has any plans beyond the next 3 days either.
            What people don't understand is that it really was a 3 day operation.
            There have been a lot of 3 day operations ever since.

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          You're referring to western countries as being bad at war and all being in crisis? Que?

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          The US finally met its match in an even more incompetent enemy: Russia. Thank you Putin for extending the hegemony of the American Empire.
          I hate Russians so much it's unreal. Greetings from Romania.

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          >The biggest midwit take is that there’s any kind of plan at all.
          Pretty much, it's about degrading Russian ability and hopefully keep the Ukrainians strung along long enough to do the job.

          It's a corrupt shithole with a rich history and money trail connected to all kinds of fucking bullshit we've seen the last 8 years. But gay-cockmongler-shills on PrepHole and NAFO trannies desperately don't want to discuss the exact origin how this bullshit came to pass in the first place.

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        I want to believe

  3. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    War is a videogame though, where the top players are the ones who are able to stagger the enemy preventing them from doing anything during their turn (EW, decapitation strikes on C2) whilst ganking on them in that state until they're out of HP (See Desert Storm). Only n00bs allow the opponent carry out their actions during their turn without any kind of opposition like chess game (the current war in Ukraine)

  4. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    it's akin to starting a poker game: everyone is sitting at the table, the pot is empty, no one has put anything in yet. what they're all waiting for is for someone to say okay, i'm going to throw a buck to get the thing rolling. that'll give the excuse for someone else to put in the real money and deal the cards.

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      That's exactly not how it works, throw in a Franklin if you want to get the game rolling.

      So what number isn't meaningless, a battalion?

      Pretty much, 56 would seal the deal. I'd give it a chance around 30 but I wouldn't count on it.

  5. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    No one on Ukraine's side wants to see this shit carry on into next winter. Irrelevant of what Germany's tankie leadership thinks there will be a fuckton of Western MBTs in Ukraine within the next 10 months.

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      How about people start actually announcing that so Scholz can do his usual social democrat cuck shuffle and do the same?
      10 tanks aren't going to cut it.

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Sadly we'll probably have to wait until a while after the Bradleys have been fielded. I get the feeling the burgers are hoping they'll be enough and wont send any Abrams until it's definite more is required. Tis a real pain in the arse.

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          Kek
          [...]
          I understand Scholz not wanting to be responsible for 95% of tank deliveries to Ukraine but what's holding Biden back?

          Given that western MBTs have a much greater logistical and training overhead and that by the time they are deployed there will be nothing left to kill that requires them why bother. The APCs, the Bradleys, strikers, AMXs etc can be used to move troops and in reconnaissance for troop advances, the Ukrainians already have huge numbers of soviet design tanks. I'm not sure western MBTs add a lot of value. Russia's capacity to field heavy armour is basically already gone (or 94% there). Russias experienced or skilled tank crews are dead

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            I don't know enough about military strategy, nor the situation over there, to comment on what's best for Ukraine, but I do know that they're requesting MBTs above anything else. Whether real of not there's definitely a perceived need for them.

            • 2 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              >I do know that they're requesting MBTs above anything else.
              They are not though, they wanted artillery advantage and they got it. They want offensive capability and they are getting it.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Zelensky has said they need tanks first and foremost.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Zelensky has about as much idea about warfare as you do and isn't a fan of listening to his soldiers or even generals or he would've spent he time before the war preparing for it instead of denying it'll happen and telling the azov boys to stand down and disarm.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Zelensky got elected on a platform of easing tensions with Russia in the hope of improving relations with them; it's pretty safe to assume that he (along with the rest of Ukraine) has given up on that idea by now.
                What makes you so sure he's the one making this decision, or that he has such a direct input over military equipment?

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >What makes you so sure he's the one making this decision, or that he has such a direct input over military equipment?
                Anon was talking about Zelensky's comments.

                Eventually they will run out of spares or even hulls. Because all machines break when you use them.
                The amount of spares available for T-model tanks is limited and most production is on Russia. So operating them is not feasible long term.
                Hence Ukraine needs western MBTs anyway.

                I don't think anybody here doubts that, anon.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                He seems very good at listening to his soldiers and his generals. You're describing the other guy, the one that is scared to be in a church with other people and has meetings with his underlings at a distance of 10 meters.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                You are unironically retarded

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                The post is factually accurate.

                https://i.imgur.com/QlBt2Gi.png

                All poolacks are butthurt nogunz fit only to be exterminated. Dirlechad was right. He should have killed and raped all the poolacks. And after this war Germany should partition pooland between Germany, Ukraine and Russia

                Make up new material, vatmoron.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Why are you defending poolacks. They are always against Germany. If not for them Germany would still prosper while training with Russia. The only thing to do to prevent poolacks killing Germans in pooland just like in 1920s and 1930s is to exterminate each and every poolack on this planet

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Objectively true. Pre-war Zelensky was an absolute moron.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                well, war changes a man

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Zelensky has about as much idea about warfare as you do and isn't a fan of listening to his soldiers or even generals or he would've spent he time before the war preparing for it instead of denying it'll happen and telling the azov boys to stand down and disarm.

                nta but tanks seem to be among the top on zaluzhny's wishlist too
                >Zaluzhny noted that he "does not need hundreds of thousands (of people)." We need tanks, we need armored personnel carriers, mechanized infantry fighting vehicles. And we need ammunition."

                >The Commander-in-Chief of the Armed Forces of Ukraine noted that Russian troops have adapted to the presence of HIMARS systems in Ukraine. "They have gone to a distance unattainable for HIMARS. And we don't have anything long-range," he said.

                >"I know I can defeat this enemy. But I need resources. I need 300 tanks, 600-700 infantry fighting vehicles, 500 howitzers. Then, I think, it is quite realistic to reach the frontiers on February 23. But I can't do it with two brigades. I get what I get, but less than I need," Zaluzhny also said.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >nta but tanks seem to be among the top on zaluzhny's wishlist too
                Tanks or western tanks?
                Because I doubt he's a fan of the literal months of training required to use them effectively.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                yes anon, just keep burning out shitty T series instead, I'm sure the Ukrainians prefer that

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Better to have shitty russian tanks you can use right now than western tanks that require a few months for you to use them.
                So literally, yes.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >what is a short-term time horizon
                >what is a long-term time horizon

                gays like you are the reason why the US only started training Ukies on Bradlys in the past month despite this war having gone on for a year (and which will most likely go on for multiple more). You joggers are incapable of thinking abstractly. Yeah, Ukies cant run western tanks out of the box right now but we can fucking train them so they can, and we can and should start sooner rather than later.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Ukraine already has the parts, ammunition, and training to operate/maintain soviet tanks, whereas new western designs will require retraining crew/mechanics and keeping additional stocks of materiel specially for them; even if they're objectively better, fielding them will consequently put more strain on logistics, especially when they don't have large numbers of them to work with.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Eventually they will run out of spares or even hulls. Because all machines break when you use them.
                The amount of spares available for T-model tanks is limited and most production is on Russia. So operating them is not feasible long term.
                Hence Ukraine needs western MBTs anyway.

            • 2 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              >but I do know that they're requesting MBTs above anything else.
              Why the fuck wouldn't they?
              I sure as hell would, no matter whether they need them or not. Worst case scenario they get a free tank fleet after the war.
              Though actual generals IN the Ukranian military seem to care quite a lot more about ammo, AFVs and artillery than tanks. Tanks just kinda became the big topic on the political stage because, you know...
              tanks are cool and big.

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            >the Ukrainians already have huge numbers of soviet design tanks. I'm not sure western MBTs add a lot of value.

            It adds tremendous value. Not only are western tanks just better in general, by giving them more tanks it’s allows Ukraine to outfit another army core and have additional supply to perform offensive actions. Even if Ukraine still has +1000 Soviet era tanks that most likely isn’t enough to sustain offensive operations or outfit another army core due to attrition and repairs needed to maintain the status quo.

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          It seems dumb to send Bradleys without the Abrams considering they were designed to work in tandem with western MBTs.

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            >Abrams
            thirsty tonk that

  6. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    It is sad this has to grind on but that is Russias fault for being there. I think you can just watch the millstones mount up and when Russia has 80%+ of its infantry armoured vehicles gone and has lost most of its equipment and taken a million casualties all hell will be let loose on them. Part of this is strategic threats to the UK and USA being erased, like heavy bombers and war ships. Russia is being completely outclassed and outfought. Apparently they have captured (but probably not) some salt mine and only lost 94% of Russia's modern tanks doing it. Why interrupt them too much when they are making such wonderful mistakes?

  7. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >could be
    >could argue
    >if that happens
    Why is Visegrad 24 always to stir up drama where there is none?

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Visegrad24 is constantly lying, making shit up and intentionally mistranslating German articles for their retarded followers to blindly consume.
      But they very well might be right here, Scholz has priorities and one of them is to spread out the blame, just sending 10 tanks isn't going to do anything for him.
      What they're doing wrong here is pretending that gaming the system by sending 10 and then expecting Scholz to authorize hundreds of others is somehow reasonable.

  8. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >just send 10 challengers/abrams/leclercs and then Germany will be forced to greenlight 300 Leopards
    Which is retarded anyway. Nobody pledges even close to that number of tanks. The Poles were talking about 12, the highest number I've heard talked about by the Finnish was 30 2A4s.

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Germany is responsible for all of them in the end so you have to see it as a collection.
      12 here, 30 there comes up to quite a lot in the end and 10 challengers don't really compare.

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Well, the 10 challengers are politically symbolic. Now that the tank taboo has been broken the political pressure on Germany is going to build daily.

        Also, the Greeks have ~500 upgraded M60TTS's which for some reason no one is paying attention to.

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          >Well, the 10 challengers are politically symbolic.
          The problem is that they're nothing else and Scholz' policy isn't just based on political pressure but actual materiel being sent or not.
          People always pretend Scholz has to get bullied every step of the way to send anything but if you look at the actual deliveries every single one (except the Gepards), was based on what the US sent which he then quickly followed up on (or sent at the same time, as with the Marders).
          The only reason he didn't do it with the Gepards is because nobody has any equivalent in the west.

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            >People always pretend Scholz has to get bullied every step of the way to send anything but if you look at the actual deliveries every single one (except the Gepards), was based on what the US sent which he then quickly followed up on
            Anon, that is political pressure - or - its America having to jump first to get Germany to jump first. Either way.

            • 2 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              >Anon, that is political pressure - or - its America having to jump first to get Germany to jump first. Either way.
              Anon, these decisions aren't made a minute after America sent anything, they talk about what they send before they actually send anything major. They just pretend they don't to not add fuel to Russia's
              >muh NATO proxywar
              narrative.
              Did you actually believe France, America and Germany all spontaneously decided to send IFVs on the same day?

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >Did you actually believe France, America and Germany all spontaneously decided to send IFVs on the same day?
                No. I do believe that the Germans however lack the political will to be first, hence someone else always has to initiate the transfer.

                https://i.imgur.com/AsP1Dve.jpg

                The biggest midwit take is that there’s any kind of plan at all. This is some qanon tier retardation. You chuds are all completely unhinged lunatics that are completely out of touch with reality. The American empire was collapsing from internal forces before this war due to the sheer incompetence of its leadership. That trump was an improvement is truly the peak of comedy, and you expect us to believe these incompetent fools that haven’t won a war in twenty years, haven’t been able to address any of their internal crisis, is somehow in control?

                Huff that hopium lad.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >No. I do believe that the Germans however lack the political will to be first,
                What the fuck is there to believe? Scholz has explicitly said they will not be first or do some special shit nobody else does (except for Gepards).
                >hence someone else always has to initiate the transfer.
                Initiate probably isn't quite true as chances are that some of the coordinated deliveries were informally started by Scholz (you can bet your ass he asked anybody else if they wanna send some Gepard-equivalents before sending them himself after he realized nobody has anything fitting), but for public appearances he won't send anything first.
                Together with others at the same time like the IFVs, sure, but not first.

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          If the bongs start dusting off storage Challengers while training ukes, they could theoretically scrounge up 50-60 of them, which would be one brit armor regiment. As well as getting the same amount (if not more) of Challenger 1's from Jordan.
          Greeks can fuck themselves, garden gnomes of the Mediterranean

  9. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    God damn the germans and the french are a fifth column

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      How are the French fifth columnists? They are sending real tanks with wheels

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Germany has sent more than France, Poland and Italy combined. Only the US has sent more actual equipment.
      have a nice day, you fucking twitterite moron.

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        No, it didn't.

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          It actually did, the UK has sent more military aid due to financial aid being specifically designated to only go to military matters officially being military aid.
          But according to the latest updated from November Germany has sent about 2.2 billion in equipment while the UK has "only" sent 1.9 in actual equipment. If we go by all aid (including financial aid and contributions via the EU that includes military aid, humanitarian and financial aid) only the US has sent more than Germany.
          It's likely more by now for both though.

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            No, it didn't.

            Anon's right.

  10. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >a thread on PrepHole
    >about Ukraine
    >its a sensible, restrained, discussion
    WHAT THE FUCK

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >hope

      God damn the germans and the french are a fifth column

      >immediately smashed by a butthurt low-info tourist
      kek

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      You just had to open your big fat mouth and summon the tourists from the east, didn't you?

  11. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >could

    Zisters are we low on hopium?

  12. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    The US should send crates of AKs, RPG-7s and Toyota Hiluxes. Seemed to work for the Afghans.

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >Toyota Hiluxes
      Germany unironically did that part though the vehicles obviously weren't Japanese.

  13. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    typical germany. never trust them

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >send the second most aid worldwide
      >butthurt slavs say you can't be trusted
      If that's Germany not trying, what would be the effect of Germany actually trying?
      And what's with the gibsmoron mentality?

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        https://i.imgur.com/kQRaB1M.png

        [...]
        Anon's right.

        Does it also count takin in millions of refugees? I mean the actual refugees, not Social parasites.

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          Probably not or the EU aid portion would be more substantial and to quote a bong
          >humanitarian aid isn't real aid

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        >the massive threat of Russia.
        Russia is proven to be a paper tiger.
        >They’re hoping to chip in a symbolic helmet here and there so that when Ukraine comes out the other side Germany can say “we helped :D!”
        Only America sent more aid overall and more military materiel than Germany.
        What the fuck are you talking about? Apologize right the fuck now you dumb cunt.

        >Honestly, the whole Bundestag sucks. They STILL can’t see the massive threat of Russia. They’re hoping to chip in a symbolic helmet here and there so that when Ukraine comes out the other side Germany can say “we helped :D!”
        See
        [...]
        [...]
        Who told you these lies, anon?
        I'm genuinely interested in where low-info posters with strong opinions like you come from. Twitter? Reddit?
        Not even kidding, do tell me.

        >counting EU aid as their aid

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          where do you think the EU money comes from?

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          Even if we ignore EU aid (fir which there is no reason at all) Germany is still the third highest contributor overall and second highest for military materiel alone, which begs the question:
          Where do all the retards who think Germany hasn't sent anything come from?

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            Hate the German is easy (you)s.

  14. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    We should just fucking launch a nuclear first strike on Russia and be done with it.

    Enough pussy-footing around the fact that Russia is a degenerate rogue state run by mentally unhinged schizophrenics with the ability to destroy the planet. The most surefire way to make sure they don't do it is to take that ability away from them, permanently.

  15. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    [...]

    >fishing for a ban with obvious off-topic 4chanposting
    lmao dumb tourists

  16. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    I assume that Challenger and Leopards are sent because there are Ukrainian soldiers and Maintainers that received a proper training in operating and repairing them on top of Ukraine preparing a proper Logistical lines to keep those tanks functional. Sending 10 Abrams while there's no crews or proper mechanics to use these would be pointless if Ukies don't have any of that.

    Unless that's exactly what Germas wants. Waste months to even a extra year before Ukraine can use those Abrams and in the meantime Ukies will have to rely on old post soviet tanks from Ex-Warsaw pact countries.

  17. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >Just send 100 Abrams and be done with it, Jesus
    you dont get it
    weapons are based on hype look at tb2 orders skyrocketed during ukraine war but once that ukranian official came out and basicly told the truth that they have zero tb2s left since early march the major cancellation came from taiwan that instead gonna built an arsena of 3000 smaller drones
    same is with tanks if abrams gets blown out here and there its not really good for the market now isnt it and germany has overhyped their leopard series to infinty and beyond

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Brainlet take.
      And the Abrams and Leopards aren't over hyped, they are simply that good.

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        thy are overhyped to shit and beyond
        remember when the turks used theirs in syria?
        yeah it went well didnt it...
        usa never published their loses but we know in the first gulf war at least 22 went out of service deemed to costly to repair
        and so far 19 from the saudis have being destroyed

  18. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    I hate Polacks so much
    >Haha Ukraine we totally want to send you our Leopard 2 fleet :DDD, but germany wont let us X(( germany is so evil and mean please gig monies

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      What is the final destination clause, retard? Who makes parts for the tanks?

      Sorry we're exposing Offal Shlock for being a cunctator to the German public opinion, breaking his various copes about how it's le dangerous and le impossible to do x, y and z. i guess your side of the argument will have to actually try use merit instead of obfuscation.

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        see

        https://i.imgur.com/2IWGKMQ.png

        >send the second most aid worldwide
        >butthurt slavs say you can't be trusted
        If that's Germany not trying, what would be the effect of Germany actually trying?
        And what's with the gibsmoron mentality?

        https://i.imgur.com/kQRaB1M.png

        [...]
        Anon's right.

        And be quiet.

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          So can we finally admit that poolacks are subhuman filth? Can we finally agree that they ought to be exterminated

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            Just because polish noguns tourists here are bottom of the barrel human filth doesn't mean all of them are, the 2 polish oldfags we had were always just fine.
            What the fuck did you expect? What kind of person do you think would go on a gun board with no real interest in the actual topic it's supposed to be about just to post about the current slav-war of the decade?
            They're not good people and probably only ended up here after getting bullied out of 4chan due to being too weak to handle the heat there, but they're not representative of poles as a whole.

            • 2 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              All poolacks are butthurt nogunz fit only to be exterminated. Dirlechad was right. He should have killed and raped all the poolacks. And after this war Germany should partition pooland between Germany, Ukraine and Russia

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          >muh official numbers
          yeah, the numbers that skip about 300 MBTs and however many fighter jets, kraut retard. Crow more about your shitty contribution, faggy jingoist shill.

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            Hint: You're wrong.

            • 2 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              You're arguing with poolack. We need to revive dirlegang and exterminate those subhuman morons

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Wtf is Belgium's problem?

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Brussels is the de facto capital of the EU so a lot of the EU money is used by EU institutions there.

            • 2 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              >nuh huh! We totes provided more than hundreads fo thanks!
              Look at this shitheel and laugh.

              My favorite part of incessant kraut shilling is trying to claim Ukrainian victories like kharkiv while not providing any offensive vehicles. Just yeste4rday a kraut links an a Bild interview with Kuleba and I can read the homosexual representing the rag trying hard to pin the offensive on the meager kraut aid. Meanwhile Ukrs had to use a tiny amount of tanks available to make a single breakthrough and pour into a breach and push it all the way over there. But of course krauts can't provide tanks, too risky! Even though they're a fair distance away from the war.

              Just a bunch of vultures who still can't decide if they don't want to throw in with Russia like they originally intended but oh boy do they demand praise.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >make up claim with no source
                >make up strawman with no basis
                Provide your own Leopards if you want ukes to have them so much, until then stop whining.
                >inb4 but Poland said they'll send Leopards!
                So where's the request to do so?

                PS: Gepards were critical in Karkhov.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >PS: Gepards were critical in Karkhov.
                No they weren't. Muh drone killing. Wow, it's fucking nothing.
                >>make up strawman with no basis
                tell us again how gepards won kharkif. In detail.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >Muh drone killing
                that's been quite a long saga

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >No they weren't. Muh drone killing. Wow, it's fucking nothing.
                Do tourists today actually believe the Gepard's main job is killing drones?

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            >the numbers that skip about 300 MBTs and however many fighter jets,
            Are those the fairytale poles tell themselves to feel better?
            >we totally sent more materiel than the UK, it's just super secret
            Yeah, I don't think so.

  19. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >allow
    What does he mean "allow"? Poland can do whatever it wants, what is Germany going to do, invade them? The Poles can do whatever they want with their tanks.

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      In modern arms contracts you need permission to resell or donate weaponry, that clause is part in basically every contract to avoid your enemies getting a look at your technology too easily.
      Poland could send German tanks without permission but it will ensure that nobody's going to send them anything again in the future and polish autarky is still about a century off.

      Why are you defending poolacks. They are always against Germany. If not for them Germany would still prosper while training with Russia. The only thing to do to prevent poolacks killing Germans in pooland just like in 1920s and 1930s is to exterminate each and every poolack on this planet

      Because I don't let my opinions get swayed by a couple of screeching retards on the internet.

      >what is a short-term time horizon
      >what is a long-term time horizon

      gays like you are the reason why the US only started training Ukies on Bradlys in the past month despite this war having gone on for a year (and which will most likely go on for multiple more). You joggers are incapable of thinking abstractly. Yeah, Ukies cant run western tanks out of the box right now but we can fucking train them so they can, and we can and should start sooner rather than later.

      I didn't write they shouldn't get western tanks, I wrote soviet tanks are better right now and they are.
      Stop being an overly aggressive homosexual. What are you? A mobik?

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Who cares what the Germans want. Send them, let Scholz throw a shitfit. They're replacing their tank fleet with Abrams anyway. They should just do it, force Scholz to either capitulate or break from the American bloc and explicitly side with the Russians, hopefully causing Germany to get sanctioned or something.

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          First of all, see here

          https://i.imgur.com/2IWGKMQ.png

          >send the second most aid worldwide
          >butthurt slavs say you can't be trusted
          If that's Germany not trying, what would be the effect of Germany actually trying?
          And what's with the gibsmoron mentality?

          https://i.imgur.com/kQRaB1M.png

          [...]
          Anon's right.

          You've got a lot of catching up to do before you can complain about German contributions.
          Second of all, breaking that clause will make sure you get no Abrams at all because guess what, you stupid tourist moron, the same clause is in that contract as well as any other contract about foreign weaponry.

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            I don't care. His objections make no sense. On principle, he shouldn't be listened to, and should be punished for retaliating.

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            well, Poland is way poorer than Germany, and 40 years of communism stunted Polish abilit to produce domestic AFVs

            • 2 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              Cope harder poolack. Germany and Russia will soon partition you morons yet again. This time for good

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        >I didn't write they shouldn't get western tanks, I wrote soviet tanks are better right now and they are.

        Excuses excuses you fucking gay. Were BM-21 grads the better option for Ukraine instead of HIMARs, I mean they knew how to use them and had ammo for them? Or are you just a fence sitting gay who is making excuse for other fence sitting gays?

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          >Were BM-21 grads the better option for Ukraine instead of HIMARs
          No, which is why Germany and Britain sent MARS2 launchers which are basically HIMARS with twice the missile load.
          But learning how to use a missile launcher and learning how to use a tank are extremely different challenges.
          You're looking at 4-6 months of training time here for competent crews, 2 if you don't want competent crews.
          Soviet tanks have a training time of 0 months.

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            to be fair the biggest problem with training Ukrainians to use Western Tanks would be maitnance and field repairs, since most soviet era tanks use upgraded t-34 engine

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            >You're looking at 4-6 months of training time here for competent crews, 2 if you don't want competent crews.

            Fun facts that you completely pulled out of your ass. You know how I know you made that shit up? I’ll tell you, it’s because it’s not even gonna take two months to train Ukies on Bradlys, a completely different IFV platform than they currently operate, and it only took them one month to learn how to use HIMARs (they had additional training later about how to maintain them later), which was a completely different MLRS platform than what they had used previously. If decision making was left up to gays like you the Ukies wouldn’t even have HIMARs because you’re too retarded to look past a short-term time horizon.

            • 2 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              you also didn't took into consideration that some of the ukrainian crews may alrady be trained to operate western tanks.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Source?

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                it's a speculation. truth is we don't know everything, and what sort of training do AFU recive in NATO countries.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Let's just say I hope you're right.

            • 2 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              >Fun facts that you completely pulled out of your ass.
              Wrong.
              >I’ll tell you, it’s because it’s not even gonna take two months to train Ukies on Bradlys, a completely different IFV platform than they currently operate,
              IFVs aren't tanks
              >and it only took them one month to learn how to use HIMARs (they had additional training later about how to maintain them later),
              HIMARs aren't even close to being comparable either.
              Goddamn, anon.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                > IFVs aren't tanks

                Yeah because tanks are some magical piece of technology that Ukies simply can’t comprehend. You’re a fucking joke.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Sounds like you're arguing out of ignorance and based on wishful thinking.
                Why?

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                You sound like you are trying to create a level of difficulty that simply doesn’t exist out of thin air. Why? Do people suddenly need to go to a 4 year college to learn how to drive a western tank, or to fucking load one? Is it space age technology that the Ukies simple can’t grasp? But then again they grasped the HIMARs and the TOW missiles on the Bradlys, as well as the rest of their electronic suite, fairly quickly. So what the fuck makes the tank such an uncrackable nut (other than you being an immense gay of course)?

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >You sound like you are trying to create a level of difficulty that simply doesn’t exist out of thin air.
                I was referring to the statement of a general, either a brit or a slovakian, on it.
                It was in another thread.
                Also holy shit calm down. Job training for an M1 Armor Crewmember requires 22 weeks of One Station Unit Training. Part of this time is spent in the classroom and part in the field under simulated combat.
                Despite what you might want to be true, tanks really are a bit of a different beast.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >this is the bureaucratic bullshit a US serviceman has to go through to be on a tank so it’s a 1 for 1 comparison of what the Ukies have to go through
                >vague generic bullshit statement about tanks being a different “beast”

                Holy shit you are unironically retarded, like mouth breathing retarded. It also takes several months to years for US servicemen to be “properly” trained on Bradlys, HIMARs, patriots, M109s, etc… but Ukies get the expedited courses on all of them, like they would with tanks (which aren’t levels of complexity different from modern IFVs, SPGs, etc…). You’re a fucking a gay. Fencing sitting gay. gay. gay. gay. Your death could never come to soon.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >It also takes several months to years for US servicemen to be “properly” trained on Bradlys, HIMARs, patriots, M109s, etc…
                No it doesn't.
                >but Ukies get the expedited courses on all of them like they would with tanks
                That's why I put down 2 months for a crew that isn't particularly well trained.
                >(which aren’t levels of complexity different from modern IFVs, SPGs, etc…)
                You're a bit of a retard, bro. Tanks are absolutely more complex than IFVs.
                >You’re a fucking a gay. Fencing sitting gay. gay. gay. gay. Your death could never come to soon.
                You talk like a russian.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >No it doesn't.
                >source: my ass

                Lmao. You come out here with “classroom training” and “simulated combat” bullshit in

                >You sound like you are trying to create a level of difficulty that simply doesn’t exist out of thin air.
                I was referring to the statement of a general, either a brit or a slovakian, on it.
                It was in another thread.
                Also holy shit calm down. Job training for an M1 Armor Crewmember requires 22 weeks of One Station Unit Training. Part of this time is spent in the classroom and part in the field under simulated combat.
                Despite what you might want to be true, tanks really are a bit of a different beast.

                and act like only tankers get drilled with theory and simulations when training for the US military. You are a fucking joke. This is your last (you).

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Anon, it doesn't take years to be properly trained on any of the equipment you mentioned.
                You're fucking delusional.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                https://www.nationalguard.com/19k-m1-armor-crewman
                Here's a source for the national guard.
                You have no idea what you're talking about, made shit up and embarrassed yourself.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                The guys who come out of AIT/TS/Ect know enough for basic operation but generally take another year or 2 of OJT to be considering skilled on any equipment or job.
                Atleast my command would not deploy anyone until they they finished the 5 lvl OJT which is 1 year xp and all 5 level tasks signed off.
                The intial training is just to make you compent enough to learn your job from the people who actually know what they are doing.
                I only know my branch but its
                Lvl 1 Untrained (cant touch anything)
                Lvl 3 Finished intial schooling (can only touch shit if a lvl 5 is watching)
                Lvl 5 ( can do stuff alone)
                Lvl 7 (can certify lower levels and advanced level tasks)
                Lvl 9 (Admin desk work dont actually touch things anymore)

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                No Nonono, just no.
                The butthurt polack tourist made very clear that a couple weeks would suffice and he's the expert. I'm sure he has driven lots of tanks in his life.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >Holy shit you are unironically retarded, like mouth breathing retarded. It also takes several months to years for US servicemen to be “properly” trained on Bradlys, HIMARs, patriots, M109s, e
                Neverserved noguns retard.

                https://i.imgur.com/4AwSLO7.jpg

                You're arguing with poolack. We need to revive dirlegang and exterminate those subhuman morons

                have a nice day, vatmoron.

  20. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    [...]

    >Those screeching retards represent majority of their 120% of their subhuman nation
    No they don't.

    I don't care. His objections make no sense. On principle, he shouldn't be listened to, and should be punished for retaliating.

    Anon what the fuck are you talking about?
    Whose objections?
    Scholz hasn't even said no to Poland about the deliveries yet, vice-chancellor Habeck already said he wants to allow Poland to send them.

    well, Poland is way poorer than Germany, and 40 years of communism stunted Polish abilit to produce domestic AFVs

    Poland had a lot of soviet shit they wanted to get rid of anyway, which made parting with it quite easy. Parting with modern tanks and the like is harder, which is why after nearly an entire year Poland's only willing to give away a handful of Leopards as well.
    Plus, I don't think Poland's GDP is half the size of Germany's is it?

    to be fair the biggest problem with training Ukrainians to use Western Tanks would be maitnance and field repairs, since most soviet era tanks use upgraded t-34 engine

    The repair shops set up in slovakia by the Bundeswehr should be very useful for that. Others will chime in as well I'm sure. Poland is right nearby and has experience with the Leopard as well, among others.

    Why would anyone care about the trade deal. Just threaten to buy all your future tanks form the Americans if Scholz retaliates for sending Leopards.

    PiS talks about the fourth reich and
    >muh heckin evil Germany
    every week anyway so nobody has expectations in regards to that when it comes to Poland anymore.

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      you may talk shit about PiS, but they are way better than konfedemorons

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        I'm sure there are worse options than PiS for Poland, but the constant hate boner they've had for Germany will have negative consequences for Poland. German media blacked it out completely all those years to ensure people don't get doubts about the "European project" and start listening to those evil eurosceptics, but this week, for literally the first time, I've seen a major publication write an article about what PiS is doing and has done in regards to Germany and how they constantly do the
        >muh nazi
        thing, which doesn't really bother me, but that's a very quick way to piss a lot of boomers, traditional "conservatives" and leftists off.
        Might've been a one time thing, if not Germans will actually start noticing and relations will get frosty, which due to the integrated economies in Europe and the central role Germany has, is going to create a lot of potential for massive issues for Poland.

        We both know Scholz will say no. He just has to be ignored.

        I expect him to, but I'm willing to let him surprise me. His line has been clear from the start and he doesn't want to be responsible for all western tanks in Ukraine.

        or maybe bongs will try to upstage his by providing challangers, forcing his hand, just like the Poles did with patriots

        To force anything bongs will need to send about a battalion of them, 10 won't do shit.

        I remember a thread a few weeks ago where a German autist who hates Scholz said how Scholz is a bastard who basically holds back support. Then half a dozen German simps jumped in to protect Scholz and called the German autist a liar. German autist then provided sources, both English and German, proving what he claimed. They just kept calling him a liar and despite the sources said 'Well Scholz didn't SPECIFICALLY say that tanks were banned he just said there was an agreement not to send tanks and told Spain not to send them!!!" which is apparently different.

        It was mega based. There is a huge swathe of Germans and diaspora in Germany who defend Germany by going 'Well we've sent a lot of aid... not military, but our EU contributions are great!' and cite shit like Ukrainian Donation Tracker which covers that shit.

        tl;dr Germany is constantly hamstringing shit for some reason and people keep defending them.

        >I remember a thread a few weeks ago where a German autist who hates Scholz said how Scholz is a bastard who basically holds back support. Then half a dozen German simps jumped in to protect Scholz and called the German autist a liar. German autist then provided sources, both English and German, proving what he claimed
        I remember that anon and he did lie, because the sources didn't say what he said they did (in German).
        The English sources did because they quoted visegrad24 which lied about the contents.
        Also pretty sure he wasn't German.

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      We both know Scholz will say no. He just has to be ignored.

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        or maybe bongs will try to upstage his by providing challangers, forcing his hand, just like the Poles did with patriots

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        I don’t think you are aware, but Scholz doesn’t even make that decision on his own. The decision is made by a council.

        >without German approval because it's breech of the trade deal
        I buy tank. It belongs to me now. Why do i need YOUR approval to do with the tank whatever I want to?
        If you dont like it, you will lose a customer.

        That’s not how international arms deals work, anon.

        moron these things already agreed upon. Logistics takes time. A bit of emotional roller-coaster for the herd.

        Pshht, don’t tell them.

        >No they weren't. Muh drone killing. Wow, it's fucking nothing.
        Do tourists today actually believe the Gepard's main job is killing drones?

        Yes they do. Because they don’t know where mobile AAA shines compared to large stationary missle batteries.

        >anti-German
        I think it's the current russian agenda: turn everyone on Germany and create turmoil inside NATO. I am guessing.

        That one is not exactly new.

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Yes they are. Poolacks hate Noble Germans, out of envy and their inherit evil. Those that are kind to you only pretend to like you so they can leech money of you. They despise Based Hitler and cry about "muh generalplan ost". Those su huamn filth need to be exterminated for the good of Germany and the white race.

  21. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    I remember a thread a few weeks ago where a German autist who hates Scholz said how Scholz is a bastard who basically holds back support. Then half a dozen German simps jumped in to protect Scholz and called the German autist a liar. German autist then provided sources, both English and German, proving what he claimed. They just kept calling him a liar and despite the sources said 'Well Scholz didn't SPECIFICALLY say that tanks were banned he just said there was an agreement not to send tanks and told Spain not to send them!!!" which is apparently different.

    It was mega based. There is a huge swathe of Germans and diaspora in Germany who defend Germany by going 'Well we've sent a lot of aid... not military, but our EU contributions are great!' and cite shit like Ukrainian Donation Tracker which covers that shit.

    tl;dr Germany is constantly hamstringing shit for some reason and people keep defending them.

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >Well we've sent a lot of aid... not military, but our EU contributions are great!' and cite shit like Ukrainian Donation Tracker which covers that shit.
      Germany has literally sent the most military materiel worldwide with the only exception being the USA. See

      https://i.imgur.com/kQRaB1M.png

      [...]
      Anon's right.

      https://i.imgur.com/GGjSUKN.png

      Yes they are. Poolacks hate Noble Germans, out of envy and their inherit evil. Those that are kind to you only pretend to like you so they can leech money of you. They despise Based Hitler and cry about "muh generalplan ost". Those su huamn filth need to be exterminated for the good of Germany and the white race.

      have a nice day vatmoron.

  22. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Just nuke Germany already

  23. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    To be fair the Leopard 2A4s Polands sending are shitty early batch 1-5 Leopard 2s without the armor packages of titanium and tungsten, so really low armor protection, like 400 or so mm on the frontal turret vs ke, marginally better than waht they've been getting.

    way better fcs, reverse speed, and ammo tho.

  24. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    lmfao, how does nafo defend the smo anymore?
    >"how do we 'lose' as slow as possible"
    is the official US/EU strategy

    its truly an extinction-event for kiev'namese people

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Been they're poolacks

  25. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >will magically unlock the German tank tech tree?

    because once you break a taboo once, it's easier to do it again.

  26. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    10 challenger 2s could kill 100 T-72s

  27. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    What if "Russia" attack Germany(car bomb or something) in order Germany go full chimp out in Ukraine?

  28. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Muh symbolism prevented DDR T55s from rolling into Czechoslovakia in 1968 and left the job to be done by othef Warzaw Pact members.

    WW2 broke the krauts.

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Read the OP again, retard.

      Didnt Spain try in the summer?

      No.

  29. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    moron these things already agreed upon. Logistics takes time. A bit of emotional roller-coaster for the herd.

  30. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    I hate Germany so much it's unreal.

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Germans are white while poolacks are morons

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Tell your president to send 50 tanks then

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Poolacks won't do shit. The best option is for Germany to ally with the Victor of this war and exterminate all poolacks

  31. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >The most recurent point of dissension between Ukraine's supporters on PrepHole is the amount of military equipement send by their countries, not because they think they should send less and be more fair, but because they think they should send even more advanced shit to flex their MIC capabilities and to show that their weapons are better at butchering vatniks than others
    It's honestly very funny. It's also hilarious that France's seemed to have baited the UK, Germany, Poland and US into sending heavy tanks by sending light "tanks".

  32. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >retard zoomer thinks politicking is videogames
    go outside

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >retard moron can't read simple English
      Dumb fuck,that's the exact mindset OP is criticizing.

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        those old boomers don't think in terms of stupid video game shit in the slightest, they think about blame and accountability, why do you think they shit out meaningless "Muh escalation" excuses for months on end, you double dumb fuck

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          Anon, it's an allegory.

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            yeah I know, maybe I wasn't being clear before, so sorry if that's the case. but I'm saying the allegory is inappropriate. less about one thing enabling another and more about being not wanting to be left holding the bag so "oh well it's up to germany, oh it's up to the US, oh it's not finalised we'll talk about it next week"

  33. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Poland will be sending Leo's regardless of the decision, we just enjoy seeing Scholz sweating in front of the public/international opinion.

  34. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    I hope Polaks do send the rusty leos without asking anyone for permission and breach the kraut clause. Kraut scums will be mad but nobody will care. Polaks now have superior Korean toys.

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Cope poolack. You'll be split between Germany and Russia yet again.

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