Since we apparently can't send Abrams to Ukraine (due to logistical issues)....

Why not help Ukraine mass-produce T-84s? Tweak the design as the war progresses.

  1. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    why not just drop a few nukes on the disputed region making it uninhabitable for both Ukies and Russkies, immediately ending the war?

    NUKES FOR PEACE 2023.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      you sound like if MacArthur was reincarnated into the MGS universe

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        That's captain Torres from AC7
        CRISP WHITE SHEETS

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          Well, AC is MGS with airplanes

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >just drop nukes near russians and expose them on radiation

      ah yeah lets pretend MAD isnt a thing

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >why not just drop a few nukes on the disputed region making it uninhabitable for both Ukies and Russkies, immediately ending the war?

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      cause zigger want to kill the entire ukraine? donbawe and lughanda are just hand wave excuses to be depopulated with press ganging

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Words of a true Belkan

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      im a slav and if you decide to do the right thing, you should nuke everything east of oder
      inshallah

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      As a Ukrainian I'm honestly down
      At this point I don't even care about Donbass and Crimea, I just don't want Russia to have them

  2. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >thinking the ukrainians have the ability to produce anything at all right now
    LOL

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Well, yes, we can. Did you think soviets built gigantic factories with underground facilities for a peace-time production?

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        there's no power, no workers, no steel, those are now converted into bases with command and control capabilities, as we saw at azovstal

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          So build them here in America. Ukraine can provide us with the specs.

          We build the Abrams in our sleep. It can't be harder to make a more primitive tank.

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            >a more primitive tank
            It isn't that primitive. And you'll still need to set up the production lines

            • 3 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              At the rate Germany and America are dithering about their own tanks, we might actually get those production lines running way before those two get their act together.

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Hmmmm. This does make sense, actually. Not even joking. But what about money?

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Collective pool. Divide the cost among multiple countries.

                Find the engineers who have the most experience with old Soviet hardware.

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            >more primitive

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            The US doesn’t have that kind of production ability like it used to. That’s in China now.

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          >no power
          Lies. The MIC is supplied with electricity 24/7
          >no workers
          In your dreams. All MIC factories work in 3 shifts. Like in that song basically, "Дни и нoчи y мapтeнoвcких пeчeй
          He cмыкaлa нaшa Poдинa oчeй"
          >no steel
          You are aware that Azovstal and Illicha combinate weren't the only metallurgical factories in Ukraine, right?

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            >factories just generate steel from energy units like in starcraft

            • 3 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              Look at Ukraine natural resources map. You'll see your mistake, hopefully

              Collective pool. Divide the cost among multiple countries.

              Find the engineers who have the most experience with old Soviet hardware.

              It's not exactly soviet.
              Imagine you have a soviet factory. Some equipment is soviet, uses punchcards and tape. Some is new, but relies on some factory-specific knowledge. Some parts rely on 80 year old Klyment Stepanovich that knows how to operate a 1924 lathe. This situation is typical for Ukrainian factories. And now you need to "export" at least 25 factories like this into CNC programs and blueprints.

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >Klyment Stepanovich that knows how to operate a 1924 lathe
                This part is, of course, a hyperbole, but it is closer to reality than you'd think

            • 3 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              even if they had a problem making steel the west can just send them the materials they need.

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                We should coordinate the efforts of Ukrainian and Western MIC personnel already!

                We're already working together on multiple levels, let's get the factory guys talking to one another.

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                I want a sweet do-nothing job at a gas company first.

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Honestly making a Ukrainian tank sounds fun. Getting to work with non-Western technology.

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >the west can just send iron ore into the big factory which russia controls so the ukraine can make steel
                lol you're a clever one

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Azovstal wasn't the only one. There are also factories in Zaporizhya and Kryvyi Rih

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Operating factories?

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Yes, indeed

                ... where did you see this? that's cool as fuck and something you don't really think about. Ukraine producing their own secret MANPADS. what a war to observe

                [...]
                i still don't really understand the hype for western tanks in Ukraine. Not in general, just in this situation. Aren't they pretty much better off with lots of bradleys, marders, etc and TOW missiles on them?

                Ever noticed how in those "MANPADS shot down a cruise missile" operators always shoot 2-4 missiles, and the launchers all look brand new? How do you think is this sustainable? The answer is Igla-1M and Kolibri. This is, of course, isn't a 100% proof, so I just went and asked a guy that works on the factory where the seekers are manufactured after I noticed these videos

                these dont even exist. there are more armatas than bm oplot

                There are 49 Thai oplots, two prototypes, 2 in USA, 1 in Ukraine. Meanwhile, there are 2 T-14 prototypes, 0 functional.

                >Why not help Ukraine mass-produce T-84s

                Because the Harkiv plant was destroyed.

                Nope

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >2 are in USA

                Well we can definitely study the design pretty thoroughly with hands-on access.

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                they have 49 t84 oplots, not t84 oplot-m. oplot-m doesn't exist

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >Oplot-M doesn't exist

                Then what's this?

                http://www.military-today.com/tanks/oplot_m.htm

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                > The Oplot-M Main Battle Tank (MBT) is a further development of the previous Oplot, which is based on the T-84. This MBT was revealed in 2008. It is an improved version, rather than entirely new design. Main components of this tank were developed back in the 1990s. This MBT completed Ukrainian Army trials, however it was not ordered by the Ukrainian Army due to funding problems. Thailand ordered 49 of these tanks. Thai tanks have some minor modifications to meet local requirements and are referred as Oplot-T. First tanks were delivered to Thailand in 2013. Deliveries are rather slow due to ongoing military conflict in Ukraine and by the end of 2017 a total of 36 of these tanks were delivered.

                Also, funding problems huh? Well money's not going to be an issue now, lol.

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >same western analysts who assured us that "russia has zero working tanks" the week before they invaded georgia

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                the oplot-m doesnt exist

                > The Oplot-M Main Battle Tank (MBT) is a further development of the previous Oplot, which is based on the T-84. This MBT was revealed in 2008. It is an improved version, rather than entirely new design. Main components of this tank were developed back in the 1990s. This MBT completed Ukrainian Army trials, however it was not ordered by the Ukrainian Army due to funding problems. Thailand ordered 49 of these tanks. Thai tanks have some minor modifications to meet local requirements and are referred as Oplot-T. First tanks were delivered to Thailand in 2013. Deliveries are rather slow due to ongoing military conflict in Ukraine and by the end of 2017 a total of 36 of these tanks were delivered.

                Also, funding problems huh? Well money's not going to be an issue now, lol.

                you just spliced the oplot-m description and the thai t84 description. the oplot-t is the export variant of the oplot. NOT the oplot-m. the oplot is good but its on par with like a t90a, better than t90m is a stretch

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Oplot-t is 'T'hai modification of BM Oplot, retard. If you can't tell the difference between T-84 Oplot and BM Oplot when there's a distinguishing feature as distinct as PNK-6 on the turret, then what are you doing here?

                Again, for retards. There are 49 "latest" Oplots in Thailand

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            Aren't you guys starting to produce 155mm shells, as well as your new classified drone (supposed 1000km strike range) and anti-marine drone?

            all 3 of those take serious resources, and skilled men

            • 3 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              Ukraine still has plenty of MIC workers. They need to begin teaching the next set, keep Ukraine in the local production game.

              As neat as Ukrainians driving around in Western tanks sound, it's sounding more and more like real concerns get in the way. Namely Western tanks are designed for Western logistics and money.

            • 3 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              Yup. And there's lots of stuff that flies under the radar, like freshly manufactured MANPADS, for example

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                ... where did you see this? that's cool as fuck and something you don't really think about. Ukraine producing their own secret MANPADS. what a war to observe

                Ukraine still has plenty of MIC workers. They need to begin teaching the next set, keep Ukraine in the local production game.

                As neat as Ukrainians driving around in Western tanks sound, it's sounding more and more like real concerns get in the way. Namely Western tanks are designed for Western logistics and money.

                i still don't really understand the hype for western tanks in Ukraine. Not in general, just in this situation. Aren't they pretty much better off with lots of bradleys, marders, etc and TOW missiles on them?

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Tanks give Ukraine a lot more offensive capability against enemy-held cities.

  3. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >T-84
    Is previous generation. The newest model is BM Oplot, introduced in 2009 and still vastly superior to 2020 T-90M

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Well let's get that mass-produced already.

      We'll never get the bureaucrats and bean-counters to send Leopards and Abrams to Ukraine. They're worried about fuel consumption, cost, maintenance, etc.

      So we'll just have to make something more familiar to the Ukrainians.

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        The hull, turret, transmission, engine can be outsourced to Czechia, Poland, etc. (Morozov tank plant works, but is being shelled, so it's far from optimal). The problem is in optics, a good chunk of that was made on IPZ in Izyum, and russians raided that factory, everything made there needs to be re-developed. Now, everything else that Oplot uses, is being manufactured right now for repairs and new T-64BV's. So there are two options. Either there's enough production capacity to transfer just hull/turret etc. documentation to allies, and manufacture everything else domestically, or you'll have to transfer absolutely everything, risking leaks+ it's expensive and time-consuming to set up the production lines
        Overall, it will be cheaper and better to use Leos

        • 3 weeks ago
          T-I-G-E-R-S

          Because the remaining facilities are busy with keeping the countless captured and remaining T-series tanks running. And even then work is being outsourced to neighbouring NATO countries, like said

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            Hello there, kraut
            Me still see no reply about moldy Strela
            Don't do be like that, answer me

            So, another coolstory, about tank repairs this time
            In 2014, while ATO was still in active phase, Malyshev factory worked like it's WWII, and still almost couldn't keep up. That was the reason Thai Oplots were delayed.
            Ukraine has 3 big tank factories in Lviv, Kyiv and Kharkiv, a dozen of smaller mechanical factories, plus shops and micro-factories on mil.bases
            With this all being filled to capacity and more, if we knew the armor loss rate in 2014, we could approximate with a very decent precision, how many tanks russia lost+how many own tanks Ukraine has to repair

            • 3 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              Kharkiv's going to be hit by the next counteroffensive hard.

              I really wish that factory could be moved like in the days of the old USSR, when entire factories were moved back deep inside the country to avoid the Germans.

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Do you understand that the northern border is so fortified now that it will take close to a million troops for a successful offensive for russia?

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                That won't stop the Vatniks from attempting it. They're fucking idiots.

            • 3 weeks ago
              T-I-G-E-R-S

              No kurwa zostałem Niemcem
              I did answered, just forgot to put the trip back on, fellow Slav. I found Your story hard to believe, since most of the sources available to me said that
              1) Ukraine demanded that exact type of MANPADS
              2) The number of malfunctioning missiles was no bigger than 700 out of 2500.

              I think the part about molding o-rings and escaping nitrogen validated Your story after all. I just think there's little sense in complaining, when the Germanbros may point out these missiles were to be scrapped and You literally pulled them from garbage bin.

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          We'll never get Leopards to Ukraine. Germany's being a bitch.

          We need to get something to Ukraine NOW, not wait for the pencil pushers to bicker.

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            Well, Oplot is far from "now". Leclercs can be "now". Abrams too. But you'll need to build an entire factory for oplots, it is not fast in the slightest

            • 3 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              Not fast is faster than fucking NEVER, which will be the Abrams and Leopard. They're never going to go to Ukraine. Americans are too worried about "Logistics and fuel consumption, as well as cost" and Germany says they won't send Leopards without American sending its tanks too....for some fucking reason. They're stuck in a loop of buck-passing.

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          >Expensive and time-consuming

          BUT it will at least happen. The bean-counters are arguing about Abrams and Leopards too much to get anything done.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      these dont even exist. there are more armatas than bm oplot

  4. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    its already a tweak of a tweak of a shit design. itd better to start from scratch tbh.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >Implying T-80 is shit
      >Implying there's something left from the T-80 in the Oplot, besides suspension

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        It looks fine to me.

        http://www.military-today.com/tanks/oplot_m.htm

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          Because it is fine
          An sexy, I have to add

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Do we have the TIME for that? An existing design is easier to mass-produce.

  5. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Europe is a fucking mess, if I was in charge, I'd get all the national MICs together, figure out what each can contribute and put that together into 1 model each of tank, IFV, MLRS and SPG and set up mass production. It would take a while but by now they would be coming off the assembly line like T34s.

  6. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Why the fuck do they need Abrams?
    They need mass production of T-64s with upgrades and something to sort out that reverse speed. Giving them Abrams will be just another fucking completely different platform for the mechanics to learn and get to grips with.
    T-64s can have the older mechanic guys who have come out of retirement be completely familiar, and they can pass their knowledge onto the younger ones too.

    Western kit is designed around fully functional maintenance crews who have all been trained up to a standard BEFORE the war kicked off. This isn't currently feasible.

    Has everyone forgotten the last 30 years of post-cold war analysis on how the Russians could win if they spill out over the Ukrainiane steppe? Ukraine needs to have a shitload of mass produced 90s ex WP tech delivered to them, because it is exactly what they need now, in a grinding industrial war on the flat part of Europe. Everyone saying otherwise is flat out fucking retarded.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Agreed. Ukraine needs HUGE numbers of tanks that they can understand easily and won't tax their logistics to hell.

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        It's only a matter of time before Russia starts to strike the infrastructure that carries the tanks to Lviv and further on. Especially if the growing number of tanks means a growing threat to their own border regions.

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          Hence why we need to begin producing the tanks inside Ukraine itself.

          Take no chances.

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            Ideally, factories below the surface. Harder to hit.

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            Ukraine has no steel production. No ore means no steel which means no tanks. Iron ore's too massive to secretly sneak in from Poland or whatever.

            • 3 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              For fuck's sake, Ukraine does have steel production

              https://i.imgur.com/KulaSKT.png

              The US should give Malaysia M1A2 Abrams in exchange for Malaysia donating PT-91M Pendekar to Ukraine

              Or, better, somehow get the Thai Oplots back to Ukraine

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >For fuck's sake, Ukraine does have steel production
                That's just retarded. How dare you.

                Like what, railway? You know that the know-how to repair damaged tracks in several hours isn't russia-exclusive, right?

                That's why they would target bridges and other more difficult to repair objectives. This is an ancient tactic going back to Rome.

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                You can't destroy a soviet bridge with just one missile, and russia can't afford multiple per one target

                Yes, old theme with "russia is out of missiles", but it's kinda true. Guidance systems for all precision weapons in russia were made in Ukraine. russia makes new missiles, but with shit precision because of this. Remember the hotel that was damaged in Kyiv in early January IIRC? I can tell you where the real target was, and it's laughable

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >I can tell you where the real target was, and it's laughable
                Where?

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                A hundred meters to the left, here
                sho rturl(dot)at(slash)iqCVZ
                (Fuck antispam)

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          Like what, railway? You know that the know-how to repair damaged tracks in several hours isn't russia-exclusive, right?

  7. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >Why not help Ukraine mass-produce T-84s

    Because the Harkiv plant was destroyed.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      I thought it was still intact.

  8. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    The US should give Malaysia M1A2 Abrams in exchange for Malaysia donating PT-91M Pendekar to Ukraine

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      The whole point of the US sending tanks at all is to remove Germany's retarded excuse to not send tanks and fine anyone that sends Leopard IIs to Ukraine. Knowing the Germans, they will sperg out about how we technically didn't send the tanks and some bullshit about how "now is the time for national unity (and by that we mean now is the time to slurp down a gallon of delicious Russian cum), we will not send support unless everyone else does! (even though everyone else has sent fuckloads more support relative to their size when compared to us)"

  9. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    should send these morons armored mopeds

  10. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    The truth is that UAF don't need T-84.
    However, they need T-64E with T-84-120-style turret, 6TD engine and modern electronics.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >UAF don't need T-84.
      Agreed.
      We, however, need modern MBTs, and BM Oplot is on par with western tanks

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Oplot could be on par with western tanks if it had bustle-mounted autoloader, like T-84-120, Leclerc or K2.

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          Well, yeah, Oplot x Yatagan would be fucking awesome, but Oplot compensates for the retarded autoloader with excellent protection and optics. Basically, moskals can't see it when it sees them, and even if they somehow see it, they can't pen it, so it's turret won't become a space vehicle. Oh, and top speed of 49 km/h in reverse allows it what no T-90 can do. Shoot, quickly hide behind terrain fold, rinse and repeat

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            Yatagan would be cool to see.

            Anon, do you have a remote idea how complicated, time consuming and expensive it is to build a new production line for tanks that are not currently in production? Look at car production and those are not nearly as complicated as tanks.
            The war will be over before the first tank leaves the factory.

            And yet will still happen before Germany sends its first tank to Ukraine, lol.

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            reverse speed is 31km/h tho

            • 3 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              35, but yeah, my bad.

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                31.
                http://web.archive.org/web/20210919143102/https://morozov.com.ua/en/bronetankovaya-tehnika-i-vooruzhenie/tanki/razrabotki/oplot/

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Interesting. 24.8 on English version, 31.3 on russian, and 35 on wiki

  11. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    All this talk of mass produced cheap export tanks… should I be buying stock in general dynamics?

  12. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Anon, do you have a remote idea how complicated, time consuming and expensive it is to build a new production line for tanks that are not currently in production? Look at car production and those are not nearly as complicated as tanks.
    The war will be over before the first tank leaves the factory.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >for tanks that are not currently in production
      ???

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Is there a functioning production line building those tanks at this time?
        Is a tank factory in the enemies artillery range the proper place to build your entire tank fleet?
        What is yearly output in peace time and what are the bottlenecks in production?

  13. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    How about they start sending all the shills they pay for on PrepHole?

  14. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    does the Myshlev factory still has the ability to manufacture tanks from scratch?

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      We're the West. We rebuilt two cities we blasted out of existence with NUCLEAR weapons.

      Pretty sure we can get a few tank factories up and running.

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        even if they could get manufacturing up and running again
        somehow replace all the materials and parts they used to source from russia
        i still don’t see manufacturering happening on a rate that would make an impact on the war

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        we couldn't even get the slab laid and cured before the Russians ruin it with a missile strike.

        just cuck germany together and send the tanks

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          We can build Ukrainian tanks in America. Just get some damn Ukrainians to come over and we'll get something up & running. Russians can't bomb fucking Arizona, lol.

          And I'm only advocating this because I'm tired of the West taking FOREVER to send tanks.

          wouldnt the best idea be to upgrade older soviet tanks with modern optics?

          We can certainly do that, but Ukraine needs sheer numbers of tanks to go on the offensive. That means if the West doesn't send them over itself, they're gonna have to be built FOR Ukraine.

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            for that point
            the israelis manufacture Namer hulls in the US to save money(as 80% of the aid can only be used on american made arms)
            so i guess the ukrainian can get a similar thing going

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Yes

      even if they could get manufacturing up and running again
      somehow replace all the materials and parts they used to source from russia
      i still don’t see manufacturering happening on a rate that would make an impact on the war

      >replace all the materials and parts they used to source from russia
      There's none. The war goes on for 9 years already, we had plenty of rime to replace those.

  15. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    wouldnt the best idea be to upgrade older soviet tanks with modern optics?

  16. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    cant the us "give" abrams to finland/poland/sweden/germany and they give all their leopards/soviet stuff to ukraine?

    since ukraine cant handle abrams logistics apparently

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Yeah, Germany doesn't want that though, because losing market share is bad

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Then Germany should send tanks to Ukraine and GET market share!

  17. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    too late. russian def industrry switchted to 24/7 months ago. also russia could request direct chinese industrial help. china would spam 10 APC per hour into former ukraine.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >china would spam 10 APC per hour
      Not much 'A' of an APC if it's made of pure cardboard chingchongium

  18. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Does anyone believe this lie that the Abrams is too hard to maintain? Obviously the real reason is because we don’t want to give China motivation to take Taiwan. The USA is the #1 logistics army in the world and have based in Germany to truck fuel and parts over if needed.

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      It's obvious that it's just political shit

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      It's a heavy as shit supply hog that runs of fucking kerosene. Americans with their ridiculous logistics can keep them running, but in Ukraine it's not the best choice. Just give them more artillery, not tanks. Give them a lot more tube artillery.

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      US can’t afford to pay for everything. Ukraine is pretty much 30 million nigs demanding hundreds of billions of dollars of gibs every week.

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        > t. actual nig on gibs

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        1. yes we can
        2. who cares they're killing russians

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Shut up moron.

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      The Abrams was made for Fucking Rich People. It wasn't made for Ukraine's needs.

      We never bothered to make a proper export tank that was affordable.

  19. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    ;pgisticals issues xDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD

    fucking kek

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >pgisticals
      wut

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Americans excuse the Abrams because the logistical aspect of sending them and parts is "difficult", and is quite see through. It's never been easier in human history to move an item across the Atlantic ocean. The American military has more than enough air/sea strategic lift to tanks out of storage and mail to Europe, because they do it every few years when a unit is deployed to Europe for NATO training exercises.

        The U.S likely wants to see how the current package of Bradleys fare before moving onto tanks due to monetary reasons, and hoping Eurotard nations step up, as the Leo2s are right in Ukraine's back yard. It's also an elbow that Europeans and other NATO countries need to wake up and chip in rather than the US having the traditional burden of carrying other's load within NATO. Obviously there's plenty of appetite in allies to move forward on this,
        Fuckface Sholz is the holdup.

  20. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >Why not help Ukraine mass-produce T-84s?
    At what factories in western countries????? Tanks do not appear out of thin air.

  21. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Why not croatia? They inherited Yugoslavia’s tank factory.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Đuro_Đaković_(company)

    That also begs the question, are there any ex-Yugoslav nations that are willing to donate M84 tanks? They’re based on the T-72.

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