So, I’ve been looking around for a good first gun for a good while now, finally in a position to pull the trigger and buy one. Now I find out these SBRs aren’t legal without some bullshit $200 tax stamp?? Frick me! I’d settled on the CZ Scorpion, as it just got the best reviews for the price range I was looking for (under $700 ideally). This was back in 2020, though. What’s the current take on the Scorpion? Or what the frick do I get now that I can’t put a stock on it without a 30% price boost?
The SBR was perfect because I couldn’t decide between a pistol and rifle. Pistol wise would probably pick up the sig p365 or similar, rifle I’d just get whatever could best let me pretend it was a scar. The hk 416 was attractive for the price, I guess. I like the AR platform too. I just don’t know if I should go pistol or rifle, and now the middle ground is a lot harder.
The last horrid sin of mine is that I adore moron autist looking firearms like the p90, aug, vector, rhino, famas etc. It seems the more moronicly futuristic design aesthetically, the more moronic the prices are. Anyone have a suggestion for a firearm that looks similarly stupid and is in the smg, between pistol and rifle size range? Or rifle?
Quick aside, there was an sbr that was the “something 1000” popular in 2020, anyone know what I’m on about?
The rhino is rad as frick, though revolver is an awful first gun pick. And there’s that whole deal with it blowing people’s hands off.
I thought those were squibs?
Squibs and hot loads.
Revolvers are comfy but I'd take a S&W Model 10 or 64 over a Rhino.
I have the 64-8.
Get a Draco Mini and a wrist brace
I obviously don’t have much dignity, if I want a vector or p90 looking bullshit, but I do still have enough dignity not to get a Draco. Would much prefer to save some for a wasr, but it looks like those have gained a good chunk of price since I was paying attention to firearm prices.
If I’m going to be bullied into buying a PSA instead of space age looking firearms released in the early 90s, is there a specific model I should I grab? Am I better off getting an upper from one place and lower another? Or just get the sig365 xmacro?
Just get a DTI-15.
Or the Sig.
Or an MPA-30.
Frick ya mudda
>under $700 ideally
>The hk 416 was attractive for the price
You're paying way more in "HK tax" to clone a 416 than you'll ever pay to the government in actual tax for an SBR, so I'm really not sure what we're talking about here.
If you're looking for shit that looks moronic, usually kinda works, and isn't outrageously expensive, I guess start with KelTec.
Now please just build a PSA AR-15 like everyone else, thanks.
Yeah, I know with hk you’re paying a premium and not getting as much as you pay for. I hadn’t considered full sized rifles as much, as I was set on an sbr, but probably need to readjust to something like a psa, as you mention. A pistol feels like it makes a lot of sense as well, but I’m stuck.
I like the style of some of the keltec pistols, I haven’t heard good nor bad things there.
Oh, a productive reply! How cute!
>https://calicofirearms.com/products/firearms/
You're welcome OP.
SBRs are going to be illegal in most states after 2025 when dems flip state legislatures. Don't bother with them.
>compliance
People already complied last time, it's over
They complied so much that brace rule got killed 🙁
Is it fricking overturned or not? Some are saying you'll get fricked and some are saying pistols can even have stocks now.
>pistols can even have stocks now.
In due time. First we gotta deal with brace stuff.
>shoot home invader with SBR
>instead of being exonerated of all wrongdoing, go to jail for 10 years for misc gun crime
yeah
Also everyone who bought a brace was
>complying
>anyone imprisoned for having a sub 16" barrel
>ever
Yes. The way it works is if they want to go after you for something or even if you suddenly have their attention and your firearm isn't compliant, you go to prison for the firearm. Yes, it has happened. They sent some guy to prison for exceeding the length of pull with his brace or some shit, by a small amount too.
The idea isn't that they're going to go raid your house to find an SBR. It's rather that you gain their attention through some circumstance and then you're fricked.
>They sent some guy to prison for exceeding the length of pull with his brace or some shit
Sounds made up, what's the victim's name?
>you gain their attention through some circumstance
That would be selling narcotics and shootouts in the street
Or shooting a unarmed home intruder who innocently weighed 300lbs, was holding a hammer and trying to get his life back on track.
As for the persons name, it was years ago. Look for it yourself. I don't work for you.
ATF doesn't arrive on scene for home invaders lol
>it was years ago. Look for it yourself
Here's a name for you: Randy Weaver (shaved an inch off his shotgun barrel). He was acquitted and paid damages
I can't believe you got me to look it up, grats.
https://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/atf-suffers-rare-court-loss-in-ohio-short-barrel-rifle-prosecution/
>Toledo police responded to a domestic disturbance call in March at the home of Kelland and Christina Wright. Mr. Wright, a Marine veteran, allegedly threw a cell phone at his wife and was arrested. As a part of an arrest for a domestic violence complaint, police confiscated all firearms in the home, including an AR pistol equipped with the Maxim cheek rest.
>When the gun was subsequently examined by the ATF, they deemed it an unregistered short barrel rifle (SBR).
The guy was eventually acquitted but still had the headache and fees. The article also totally invalidates your entire argument about it not mattering because the ATF won't respond to local police issues.
You invalidated my premise by affirming my conclusion
If you want to be the one that deals with some precedent setting court case, more power to you. I can respect it.
Inshallah
Yeah, just make sure you have an actual case to make. "Your laws ain't valid" probably isn't going to cut it.
The language of the NFA is unconstitutionally vague
nta but
1) in this case, the local police literally called the ATF
2) Wright walked, the ATF lost
>headache
Sure, it was probably a headache
>fees
Wright's case was so open-and-shut that his attorney was a public defender, notoriously some of the worst attorneys on the planet, and that public defender dunked on the atf. He didn't pay a dime.
This case in particular also led to a big trend of the ATF's myriad arbitrary opinions coming back to bite them in the ass when they tried to take it to court. After this case there were numerous examples of the ATF attempting to press NFA violations based on agency opinions then subsequently dropping the charges when, as an example, a man being prosecuted for possession of a machine gun for owning a bumpstock's attorney simply read the statutory definition of a machine gun out loud to the jury then explained how a bumpstock works. This also happened with somebody's attorney successfully arguing that an AR15 wasn't actually subject to federal regulation or even legally considered a firearm under the NFA and GCA because of its split receiver design meaning it doesn't contain a singular part that meets the statutory definition of a frame or receiver.
The ATF losing (or realizing they were going to lose and dropping the charges to avoid setting legal precedent) these cases is the literal reason they went for the new brace ban and new "frame or receiver" definition. And they're getting slapped down in court for violating the administrative procedures act in both cases.
And to be clear, while an APA win is still a win, it just returns us to the ~2017 status quo. I want all these lawsuits to ultimately get the NFA evaluated under Bruen.
>tl:dr
The ATF got involved as a result of a women claiming someone threw a cell at them.
The ATF caused the individual to be charged with a bullshit felony.
The ATF had a terrible bullshit case on this one but some "don't comply" anon with a blatant SBR would be sitting in prison.
Again the cops called the ATF in that case
idk where you live but where I live it is explicitly illegal for the state and local police to call the ATF or to aid them in any way. This stuff is all about calculated risk and ultimately, play stupid games, win stupid prizes.
Also don't get into domestic disputes. If you're the kind of guy who throws shit at or hits women during an argument, don't. If you're with a woman who will lie to the cops and claim abuse because you're in an argument (which is what seems to have happened here: they were called in on a domestic disturbance, saw the guns, then it was an ATF case from there on out, DV charges gone), leave. If you're with a woman who hits you and throws shit during an argument, leave.
Your refusal to admit the possibility of being charged with a firearm related felony is laughable and you are a dumbfrick. A dumbitty dumb dumb bumbling blowhard of a dumb frick, you dumb frick.
>Your refusal to admit the possibility of being charged with a firearm related felony is laughable
....how exactly did you get that from what I'm saying? Are you some kind of idiot, anon?
You are more dumb than I am dumb.
Why do people go on the internet just to lie? Literally the first google result for
>man convicted for illegal SBR
https://www.justice.gov/usao-mdfl/pr/citrus-county-man-found-guilty-possessing-short-barrel-rifle
>yet to be sentenced
Means he's not currently imprisoned
he literally is, they just have yet to determine for how long.
Also that article was from early 2023, I’m sure he was sentenced by now
Have dems ever explicitly opposed SBRs? Most politicians don't understand the NFA and almost all of the public doesn't, although it's not unheard of (looking at you WA), banning SBRs by name has never been a priority for dems. Now semi-autos is a different story, and most SBRs are semi-autos, but I doubt they would get so specific as to ban SBRs by name.
All the more reason to get one now. They can't hope to confiscate anything after-the-fact. No one would comply.
>when dems flip state legislatures
why didn't they do it these last four years?
Where have you been? Oregon and Washington went full moron due to this. Most purple states are projected to flip to Dems. They gained ground in the 2022 mid terms and will massacre Republicans this presidential cycle thanks to trump alienating most moderate voters.
>I watch MSNBC and CNN
Okay moron. I agree that Trump has the best chance among Republicans of losing the general election but lots of moderates are looking back over the last 8 years and realizing they fricked up in 2020. The only reason the Dems did well in the midterms is because they successfully framed it around abortion rights, a losing issue for the Republicans. They are trying to do that again with the general election but absolutely nobody is going after it now. So, it's a moot point. Biden's a corrupt China sell out who has gone senile while trying to destroy the country. I don't love Trump but between the two, that's an easy choice.
>trump alienating most moderate voters
Keep telling yourself that.
no, they get all their money from
>2 more weeks
>trust the plan
>trans ally gun grabbers in charge
The US political system is optimized for doing jack shit.
>2025 when dems flip state legislatures
Yeah, because that's what historical happens after a party makes a flaming hash of the presidency
>the CZ Scorpion,
I recommend picking a good gun as your first gun.
Get a PSA AR15 and a surplus glock or S&W M&P
I’ve liked nearly every glock I’ve shot. I always expect composite body firearms to be worse than they are, though I wouldn’t mind something all metal. Sig p320/226, sp-01, maybe a USP for reasons. But I really don’t know what I’m talking about.
Can confirm, USP's are the most comfy pistols to shoot. But you're looking at a really expensive pistol just because H&K put their name on it. If you want a semi-fancy, semi-affordable metal handgun, just look at Berettas.
I’ve heard good things about their metal frame handguns, I’m familiar with the company just have never touched one of their pistols. Which would you recommend?
I shot a USP .45. It had really light recoil, and it was comfortable to hold and shoot.
Are glocks the nicest no. I personally don't like them, even though I own three along with a p80. The reason I'd say to get a glock or m&p is you have a budget of 700. You can get police surplus ones for around 350 on average right now. And with that you will get a perfectly serviceable handgun to practice with and possibly even carry. Same with a PSA ar, are they the nicest not really, but as long as you got one that works, which you will probably know within 100 rounds, you are fine. Once you train and practice with those, you can find what you like and don't like about them,. Then you can start looking at nicer and more unique guns.
Thanks, really appreciate the input. Any thoughts on the sig p365 x macro? Could probably get that in under budget if picking it up second hand. But it sounds like you’re not getting as much bang for your buck?
P365 XL and XMacro are among the best pistols on the market atm. Get the XL if you want something you to carry regularly or the XMacro if you'll only carry occasionally.
Alternatively for around $700 you could get a Beretta 92fs or PX4 and they're both much more attractive guns.
Are wrist braces illegal now? I thought that was the go-to for all these shitty "pistols".
I'm an AUGChad so haven't really been paying attention to what's happening with braces.
ATF is flip flopping despite the Supreme Court telling them "No" when it comes to making up rules
Seems like the Supreme Court could very well be giving Chevron Deference the boot soon too.
The ATF came out and said they are stocks. However, they did this only after braces became common use. Ergo, a judge put a temporary injunction against the ATF enforcing their "rule".
The problem is that it is not yet a permanent injunction. So no guarantee and the it will probably be decided by the Supreme Court at some point.
As of right now, the ATF is not taking action against brace users.
It wasn't temporary, Judge issued a nationwide stay.
It is temporary, the case is getting kicked up to a higher court. The injunction is just until the higher court makes a ruling.
I think what you’re referring to is that it does cover everyone, you don’t have to be a member of any organization to be under it.
Google it, it is a stay decision, not temporary. The ATF is unable to make law without congress approval, that is why the judge striked it down.
this court would sooner vacate the entire NFA than take our braces away again. don't even fricking worry about it
>The SBR was perfect because I couldn’t decide between a pistol and rifle.
You're kinda getting the worst of both worlds without the advantages though.
A pistol is good because you can carry it concealed (even if you're not planning to conceal carry daily, this might still come in handy if you need to travel in an emergency or answer the door late at night when there's no obvious enough threat to warrant ipening the door with a rifle). The cost of this is shooting pistol caliber rounds with all that implies for effect on target. A pcc is smaller than a rifle, sure, but it's still too big to easily conceal. If you're not getting a pistol then you might as well get something in an intermediate or full power caliber.
Only real benefit is cheaper training ammo.
There's something to be said for indoor use.
Braces are very similar to stocks and not SBR. At the moment, no federal rule against braces is being enforced. That could change.
There is also something called the sling method where you forego using a stock or brace and instead use a sling to tension and stabilize the firearm. This does not work as well as a stock but it does allow you to keep the weapon smaller/lighter while avoiding the whole brace issue.
When would a slung PCC make more sense than a traditional handgun with extended magazine? Some would say it doesn't. For me it does if you want to accessorize with all the goodies including a large format red dot, light and especially a suppressor, where you have the advantage of a fixed barrel design. The sling also lets you drop the weapon free to use both hands. So it has its' place. However, if you don't have a suppressor for it already, I would not get such a weapon.
Welcome to the real world dipshit, youve finally woken up. Tell your friends how fricking stupid these laws are and vote better. Be vocal be an educator. Push them to vote better too.
Just get a brace
Why not just buy the parts and do the AWCY one instead? It will be the same quality after all
Just get a brace.
Would you ATF fricks stop shitting up this board with these obvious honeypot threads? Go do something else that you're actually good at, like burning children or getting reprimanded by Congress.
Buy an HK SP5.
based.
waiting around for a tax stamp is pretty gay but not as gay as using a pistol brace
There are still reasons to use a brace even if SBR's were de-regulated. In some areas pistols exist under a different set of laws for concealment and carry.
>There are still reasons to use a brace even if SBR's were de-regulated.
Right, like if you're missing the use of both hands and would still like some stabilization when firing with a pistol.
I'm not saying otherwise. I'm just pointing out that my 16" barrel AR pistol can have a stock on it or I can go back to a brace if I want to drive around with it in my lap, legally.
Supposing the folding is handy af, probably the best option to get an ar into a backpack.