Now that Patriot has proved itself as the best medium ranged missile defense system on the market can we rewind the clocks and revisit when it was a piece of shit. What made original Patriot so bad and modern versions so devastating effective?
Now that Patriot has proved itself as the best medium ranged missile defense system on the market can we rewind the clocks and revisit when it was a p...
Like all tech things in the past decades: software updates. Not even kidding, it's crazy how much you can get out of existing hardware with updated software
Correct. Well, the interceptors also got major upgrades and new versions. But the software component in these systems are massively important. Anons think Silicon Valley just makes Macs and social media. The American MIC makes full use of the world’s strongest software industry.
Yeah man but they put the launch button to the middle when it used to be on the left, that kinda sucks.
The original wasn't bad. Where are you getting this?
>
>have SAM designed to counter aircraft
>it ends up being so good that they also try to use it against ballistic missiles
>works somewhat, biggest problem is that they never restarted the system and it was left on for weeks at a time
>this proves it was a shitty system because it couldn't do a job it wasn't designed to do
explain yourself, homosexual
>The original wasn't bad.
It was made against planes and had 20% success against missiles, now it's 95%.
It’s hilarious that it has outperformed IRIS-T
lol no
Yea. Iris-t has been an underperformer
That's always the case with Germ*idshit equipment. They always overengineer shit while not being able to get basics done first.
Can I have proofs sir?
>What made original Patriot so bad and modern versions so devastating effective?
Patriot has 10% success rate and breaks down all the time
What the frick are you talking about op
Proof?
My country got them. When we were testing it they wouldn't intercept missiles at all and only one hit was lucky. Also all the wires in that shit are white so we had to call amerimutt technicians to fix that shit and they did not even provide blueprints.
Thanks I guess
This didn’t happen
If you have one of those then go ahead and test it. Also stop sending us rc drone cars, they are trash.
I asked for proof not some made up copeing mechanism
So you don't have any proof?
>Also all the wires in that shit are white
This is how I know you're full of shit. It would cost more to get all the wiring white instead of just going with industry standard color coded wiring. You're story would have been easily believable, but vatBlack folk can't help but embellish.
I saw Patriot at a grocery store in Los Angeles yesterday. I told him how cool it was to meet him in person, but I didn’t want to be a douche and bother him and ask him for photos or anything.
He said, “Oh, like you’re doing now?”
I was taken aback, and all I could say was “Huh?” but he kept cutting me off and going “huh? huh? huh?” and closing his hand shut in front of my face. I walked away and continued with my shopping, and I heard him chuckle as I walked off. When I came to pay for my stuff up front I saw him trying to walk out the doors with like fifteen Milky Ways in his hands without paying.
The girl at the counter was very nice about it and professional, and was like “Sir, you need to pay for those first.” At first he kept pretending to be tired and not hear her, but eventually turned back around and brought them to the counter.
When she took one of the bars and started scanning it multiple times, he stopped her and told her to scan them each individually “to prevent any electrical infetterence,” and then turned around and winked at me. I don’t even think that’s a word. After she scanned each bar and put them in a bag and started to say the price, he kept interrupting her by yawning really loudly
He's a Raytheon employee
If what you say is true, then explain this:
1. Why is the US making still the worst missile systems?
2. Why do other countries buy them?
I already checked your "source".
USA has no real experience in war with technologically advanced country such as Russia therefore they have no idea what truly is good for countering such technology.
Second
USA can't survive without selling weapons to other countries, they need constant money laundering wars, the one for example was set up in Ukraine but America fricked up and now caused ww3 instead of slow comfy war which would milk Europe dry. The global security is in danger and if usa won't destroy Russia, Russia will destroy them.
Third
USA spends lots of money into online shill propaganda such as is seen in here. They also shill that their weapons are good so Europe will buy them, examples are Bradleys which are supposed to be armoured transportation vehicles but their thin plating and heavy Canon made it into small tank, they also can intercept missiles but one shot form rifle with kill everyone is inside.
Abrams for example are good but too heavy for Eastern euroean front as it is mostly mud and swamp, they get stuck all the time and won't advance making them into dead weight for army. Javelins were countered by putting cuck cage on top of tank.
Overcomplicated technology with no real purpose and effectiveness
>USA spends lots of money into online shill propaganda such as is seen in here.
Ok, Lee
>Lots of coping and seethe
>No arguments
I am actually starting believe the original post
Well if you don't make an argument that actually correlates with reality, no one will take it seriously.
there is nothing to argue because you'll just call it BS or bend the truth
you are actually too moronic to talk to, brown boy
>technologically advanced country such as Russia
>technologically advanced
>advanced
Good one anon
Are you going to delete this post when everyone laughs at you?
My God it's true, the orcs are so pathetic and unthinking they simply look at what they're doing and accuse everyone else of doing it.
>USA has no real experience in war with technologically advanced country such as Russia
Wdym? All russian weapon specifications not only are well known, but you can literally buy them and many NATO countries have these weapons.
>technologically advanced country such as Russia
puzzie struggles to make 90 nm microchips, which is 30 yo tech. What tech advancements are you talking about?
>therefore they have no idea what truly is good for countering such technology.
But the puzzian tech level and weapons are well known, what are you talking about?
Didn't read your bullshit further, you're clearly dream this shit up above:
You're russian, correct? It seems to me that you're just citing your propaganda about stonks puzzia.
Im slovakian, we test weapons which America send us. Many many failures, it tears my heart we had to send our artillery called Katka to shitkraine just to get executed.
Are you going to explain your bullshit about russian tech superiority and other shit?
Or are you Slovakian from alaska oblast?
Russian military tech is in par with any advanced country. S300 are Russian for example and they are 40 year old
>Russian military tech is in par with any advanced country
fellow compatriot, get a lobotomy.
>Slovakian
I can believe this. It talks like a brainwashed /misc/troon, not like an actual Russian.
Does it mean you are Slovakian?
>muh microchips
They struggle to make ball bearings and hydraulic pumps.
Too bad every second French and Chinese company is happy to smuggle things in for them so they'll never run out.
Do you have sources about smuggling? I hear that a lot, but I doubt they receive even 10% of what they need. Especially from France.
not him , but most components are also used for commercial purposes albeit slightly gimped. not hard to imagine them smuggling in some.
Yeah, but EU / the US forbade not only military but double purpose parts.
>technologically advanced country such as Russia
Kek
>technologically advanced country such as Russia
I laughed so hard I almost couldn't breathe.
This is too effective to be a vatnik weapon. You must be a bored burger.
>Overcomplicated technology with no real purpose and effectiveness
we need to put up a fricking salt circle around this board or something to keep out the ghost of Pierre Sprey
GO AWAY YOU MEDIOCRE JAZZ PRODUCING FRICK YOU'RE DEAD, ITS OVER
JUST GO INTO THE FRICKING LIGHT ALREADY
Calm down bro, you getting stoke
>if usa won't destroy Russia, Russia will destroy them.
Russian can't even take Marinka.
>USA can't survive without selling weapons to other countries
Let's check the numbers:
>US arms exports (2021): $103 billion
>US GDP (2021): $23.32 trillion
And for comparison:
>Russian arms exports (2021): $14.16 billion
>Russian GPD (2021): $1.78 trillion
Now it's time for a little long division:
>US GDP from arms exports (2021): 0.44%
>Russian GDP from arms exports (2021): 0.79%
Math is fun!
>treating a troll thread seriously
The TBM capability of original Patriot systems was theoretical. Raytheon engineers updated systems on the fly during the first Gulf War. Still, the proximity fused missiles were still too slow. By the time the missile triggered the explosive, the TBMs had already passed by. At best, they could knock Scuds off course. PAC2 and GEM enhancements allowed the explosives to explode quicker, but were still reliant on a fragmentation warhead. The PAC3s were the real game changer, being hit to kill.
>things can be continuously improved
amazing, OP.
the only issue with making something work is the cost incurred doing so. was it worth it compared to other options?
>what are upgrades
Anon, the original F-15's radar had to choose between tracking a target or scanning for bogeys; the latest F-15 radar can track, scan, AND perform electronic attacks all at once
Upgreyds make
Early patriots had desync issues between internal clocks.
Why all these posts when the patriot hasn't even been used in ukraine yet?
It was used yesterday to thwart a massive Russian missile attack. Out of multiple bombers and some surface ships something like 8 missiles got through
Nope
Some missiles were shot down and there's no proof about what shot them down
massive cope. Is that what forced you to write “ Why all these posts when the patriot hasn't even been used in ukraine yet?” I can just feel the insecurity dripping off that post.
So it hasn't been used then
Jesus Christ the yanks are getting worse than the bongs at this point
Patriots are defo the new star streak
Frick off Warriortard
Are you moronic. Warriortard is pro American. Here’s an active warriortard thread
.You can spot it because he chooses systems where the American one is verifiably better
Frick off Warriortard
Yes the JASSM does tend to get you riled up.
Patriots are the only operational BMD in that part of theater. IRIS-t is 200 miles away. It’s great that you’re upset about these new Patriot kills
>Missiles fired from Murmansk and Caspian sea
>Opposite sides of Ukraine
Are Americans just making shit up at this point?
There's been hundreds of cruise missiles intercepted and now we suddenly decide it's the patriot because some guy on twitter said so?
Never this effectively and never over patriots AO. Incredible what Patriot has managed to do here
Half the posts here are half remembered twitter shit. Don't come here for any intelligent thoughts
>Some missiles were shot down
83% exactly
Look into the us equipment provided and you start noticing things
Heavy amount of footage of most equipment except yank stuff
Huge amount of "reports" from "commentators" saying how great the latest lockheed slop is
It's a lot cheaper to buy a good reputation than actually build one
>most ATGM videos are javelin
>American guided rockets single-handedly halted the Russian advance
loving every second of your meltdown
>Heavy amount of footage of most equipment except yank stuff
I wonder if that requirement the Americans have where you aren't allowed to distribute videos of their stuff in action has anything to do with that?
THANK YOU all these posts about the patriot system and I haven’t even seen a twitter screenshot saying they were used. Feels like a fricking psyop
We’re not here to spoon feed you while you reply to yourself
>is that multiple people disagreeing with me in my safe space?
>must be samegayging
where’s the proof it was patriot?
>and I haven’t even seen a twitter screenshot saying they were used
you are a moron
Jack Kirby himself just stated the other day that the patriot system is reliable versus cruise missiles and drones being specifically designed for ballistic missiles and aircraft.
It's also strictly directional and needs multiple batteries with different facings unlike an IRIS-T battery which has vertical takeoff and is omnidirectional, being able to attack a target in a 360° radius.
Unreliable I mean
Damn that’s crazy. It’s funny how iris-t has such great on paper capabilities but gets outperformed by Patriot the moment it shows up.
Well if comic book writer jack Kirby says their reliable im inclined to believe him
Do not question the news citizen
Source? That’s a rather bold claim
Shooting down missiles is hard and they've had 30+ years to get better at it.
America is always best in class. Just look at GMLRS and PrSM
Jesus this fricking thread. First a lot of the initial high profile failures came down to a simple dumb clock error in software:
>The radar system had successfully detected the Scud and predicted where to look for it next. However, the timestamps of the two radar pulses being compared were converted to floating point differently: one correctly, the other introducing an error proportionate to the operation time so far (100 hours) caused by the truncation in a 24-bit fixed-point register. 100 hours meant the system's internal clock had drifted by one-third of a second, and due to the missile's speed this was equivalent to a miss distance of 600 meters. As a result, the difference between the pulses was wrong, so the system looked in the wrong part of the sky and found no target. With no target, the initial detection was assumed to be a spurious track and the missile was removed from the system. No interception was attempted, and the Scud impacted on a makeshift barracks in an Al Khobar warehouse, killing 28 soldiers, the first Americans to be killed from the Scuds that Iraq had launched against Saudi Arabia and Israel.
Second it was initially designed for anti-aircraft, so it used a proximity fuse and aimed for center of mass. Which is exactly the right choice vs aircraft, but prox fuse introduces some delay, and vs missiles which have the warhead in the front and are faster/narrower aiming for center of mass then prox fuse meant they would generally end up hitting the back half of the missile, which in terminal intercept is useless rocket has already burned out and it's on a ballistic trajectory.
The fundamentals of it weren't bad, the radar worked, the links worked, the missile worked and could maneuver, but it got pressed into service too fast in a role it wasn't initially designed for and it showed. They polished that up over the next decade. Obviously it gained enormously more computational power and more advanced (PAC-3) missiles too.
Again, the memes, high profile coverage, investigation and so on are all from like 1991-1993 or so. 30 years ago. Yes, it had 7 years before that since its IOC and it'd have been nice if it had been put through the wringer vs missiles earlier, but 80s was a different time in terms of focus and posture/doctrine too (and even worse computers). It was a scandal in the good free nation way, frickups couldn't be brushed under the rug and it got lots of attention which helped ensure it then got worked on.
But by 00s that had paid off and it was already pretty solid, and it has improved since. This shouldn't be some surprise.
According to computer history the early Patriot missile had a memory leak, not a problem if it was regularly rebooted but some US units kept theirs on all the time, this caused the system to lag and the delay meant that the missiles would fire miliseconds too late.
No wonder the patriot system has been getting so many foreign sales. It makes me giggle remembering that surface to air was always the Soviets bread and butter and now the US just makes better systems without much effort
How will it counter hypersonics?
By existing. It’s been intercepting hypersonics since the 90s
Missile defense has come an extremely long way since the 1990s. Sensors and computing power are essential to missile defense, as are networks for detecting launches. These are all orders of magnitude more powerful than the early days of missile defense when the best option was to shoot a missile roughly in the path of an incoming one and then detonate a nuclear warhead on it and hope it took out the incoming missile. You don't see these now because nuclear interceptors are banned aside from a small number left from before the treaty.
Obviously, with modern kinetic kill vehicles actually hitting ICBMs, using a nuclear warhead would radically up interception, but having a rival detect your doing it would make them just built more nukes, negating the benefit and escalating tensions.
The idea of hitting an ICBM with a kinetic kill was a pipe dream when the US bluffed about it originally. Then we had the Alaska interceptors finally get to where assigning three to a target gives you better than 99% odds to take it out. These things are hideously expensive though, so they don't work against even Russia's much reduced arsenal. They are basically for Iran or North Korea, who would only be sending a few missiles.
But now we even have Aegis able to destroy ICBMs. Those launchers are on US destroyers around the world and on land in Asia and Europe. Other Aegis missiles can take out IRBMs or potentially target either if launched very early in the flight path.
Missile defense for small objects has also moved ahead by light years. Iron Dome would be unthinkable during the Gulf War. That's the power of network speeds and computers that can crunch data from tons of sensors quickly. Lasers offer a whole new potential game changer because even an ICBM coming down at Mach 18 is essentially standing still for a laser (getting the laser there is another issue, they won't be used for long range targets any time soon, but they might take out other missiles from fighters.
The Mitsubishi F-3 has such a giant powerplant just for this reason, using it to destroy incoming missiles with lasers.
Drones and fighters could be used to help fix the distance problem with lasers and lighter than air drones offer highly persistent sensor platforms that could conceivably launch interceptors in the future.
Comparing 90s systems to today's is just nonsense. The same system names are used, but the modifications are night and day.
It's like comparing the latest F-15 with the initial ones. The new ones would absolutely stomp.
100% Kill Rate
How I love American missiles and tech. Though I doubt it has 100% kill rate
Idk, NATO don't tend to lie unlike russians.
Is it really that hard to write Kongsberg correctly?
On another note, these were used to protect the White House. Not sure if they still are.
AFAIK they still are. You can see some of them on google earth if you look really closely on certain rooftops. White house surroundings arent 3D so it was a bit tricky.
Last time i checked i couldn't find any so maybe they did something about that.
18 is a small sample size and I think they are counting ones that crashed harmlessly into fields as "intercepted."
They used more aircraft than missiles. That might be because this was partly training, but I also imagine it's because of systems faliure in the planes or missiles.
>IRIS-T already confirmed 100% effective
>No Patriot news
https://english.nv.ua/nation/iris-t-shows-100-success-today-more-of-these-systems-needed-air-force-says-50280556.html
That’s not a legitimate source and is months old. Patriot slayed last night
>That’s not a legitimate source
Directly from Ukies
>months old
Russian missile tech didn't advance from then.
>Patriot slayed last night
Proofs? Post Patriot kino if so.
Iris kino: https://twitter.com/Euan_MacDonald/status/1593158987800641536
That is a blog post. It’s not the country of Ukraine.
>post patriot kino
Patriot doesn’t do publicity intercepts like that kek worthy video you posted. Patriot only cares about results as we can tel by yesterdays mass shootdown of missiles by patriot
>publicity intercepts
You think they had a deal with ruzzia to shoot a missile just then an there so someone could film the impact?
>That is a blog post. It’s not the country of Ukraine.
https://twitter.com/nexta_tv/status/1587085912692883456
Official words from Ukrainian spokesman. IRIS-T is DAMN good.
Patriot is... unknown, but let's not hope after the embarrassing track records it shows effectiveness better than rough 50-60%.
That’s not a “ukranian spokesman”
>Yuriy Ignat
Seems to be legit.
Proof?
?t=283
Holy shit I knew the patriot was good but I didn’t know it was THAT good
>23min video
>this reply in 3mins
Make it less obvious next time.
The video was timestamped. It starts exactly at the relevant part
Such a shill reply too lmao
Sounded like someone from an infomercial
In Ukraine? I don't think so. Prove the 95% hit ratio isn't done in test conditions (test conditions that previously didn't detect its horrid performance). Iris-T is confirmed to be 90-100% depending on exact source in actual battlefield conditions.
>after the embarrassing track records it shows effectiveness better than rough 50-60%.
it has 95% you moron
There is still no official or unofficial confirmation that patriot is being used yet
Getting a bit embarrassing for our American friends...
We have official confirmation that it's been deployed. Thus, it's highly likely it was just uses last night. Not sure why we're all still arguing here, it's clear that Russia has lost most of its ability to hit Ukraine with missiles at this point
That's it?
We also have confirmation half a dozen other missile intercept systems are in Ukraine
Why couldn't it be them?
You are now learning how open source “intelligence “ works
We have had one twitter post saying a bunch of cruise missiles were shot down. No mention of the patriot system. There is no indication the patriot system is even active in Ukraine yet.
There’s has been a bunch of threads but not one single shred of evidence
It’s the best anti missile system in Ukraine they are definitely using it. Where did this unsourced cope of the patriots being kept in their shipping containers come from
All I am asking is just one tiny little piece of evidence that the patriot system was used in this shoot down. No arguments, no cope. It shouldn’t be hard. Why can no one provide even one piece of evidence?
The evidence is that it’s patriot territory. Do you think all interceptions are filmed from launch to intercept? Are you genuinely moronic. Just say sorry to patriot and move on
The missiles were fired into Ukraine from the north and south. Does the patriot cover the entirety of Ukraine? What territory does the patriot cover?
Any announcement official or unofficial would be welcomed. Anything other than you just repeating what you heard some other anon say with no evidence
> Does the patriot cover the entirety of Ukraine?
kek yes. It’s the iris-t that has the gaps because they only have 2 systems.
https://www.oryxspioenkop.com/2022/04/answering-call-heavy-weaponry-supplied.html
4 IRIS-T
3 Patriots
Actually worse than that. The 4 IRIS entries are whole systems. For Patriot there is a battery from Germany and just 2 additional launchers from Netherlands.
Oh shit so I guess they were shot down by IRIS then
Most likely yes
>The missiles were shot down in patriot territory
>The patriot territory is all of Ukraine
>so any missile ever shot down in Ukraine is now assumed to be shot down by the patriot system
>it cannot be any of the systems that were shooting down missiles before the patriot arrived a week ago
Jesus Christ your argument is dumber than I thought. At least before I thought it was based on some dumb twitter map. But now it’s just based on pure moronation
Do you realise that makes your entire argument moot?
Proof it’s not being used?
if i were russia i would just keep launching decoys at ukraine. is there a reason they don't do this?
They don't even have the electronics to do this
Wdym under a decoy? A missile without a warhead? For what purpose? So they run out of AA rockets?
yes, they've done it before in this war and there's videos of it and wreckage of some that ukraine has shot down.
Makes no sense. I don't know the exact numbers, but missile body is the most expensive thing.
Also, you have to have these decoy missiles, and russia struggles even with armed ones :^)
the decoys are often old cold war era missiles that can draw in ukrainian air defense and they are already paid for, old stock.
they already do that
I find it funny: when the US announced that they're going to supply Ukraine with Patriot systems, russia immediately launched the campaign how bad these Patriots are, but also threatened not to supply them.
>Now that Patriot has proved itself as the best medium ranged missile defense system on the market can we rewind the clocks and revisit when it was a piece of shit. What made original Patriot so bad and modern versions so equally fricking SHIT?"
LMFAO, NAFO on suicide watch
SHAHED changed warfare, and US MIC has no fricking earthly clue what to do anymore.
SHAHED™
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HESA_Shahed_136
>1 single Shahed=$10k
>Warhead weight: 60-1001lbs
>Range: 600-1500miles
>Speed: 115mph
Patriot Missile System™
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MIM-104_Patriot
>Single Patriot-missile system=$1Billion
>Single Patriot missile=$3million
>Single Patriot missile salvo:$18million (6 rockets)
for the cost of a SINGLE patriot-missile battery, Russia could produce enough Shaheds to to eat every patriot™-missile globally produced, EVER.
>ALL patriot missiles ever produced=$30,000,000,000Billion
>($3million per missile x 10,000 approx patriot™ missiles producted)
additionally, a single Patriot™ battery requires 90 operators to maintain and deploy the system,
and 13 weeks of training.
SHAHED v. Patriot™
>1 single Shahed=$10k
>($10k x 10,000 no. of patriot™ missiles globally produced=$1,000,000,000)
Or THE COST OF A SINGLE PATRIOT BATTERY.
>for the cost of a SINGLE patriot-missile battery, Russia could produce enough Shaheds to to eat every patriot™-missile globally produced, EVER.
Too bad they can't afford that, lmao
rajesh, it's called geranium now, bloody b***h! do the needful!
>using patriots on sneed
Shaheds are a complete flop vatnik moron. They achieved absolutely shit for months. Completely useless joke of a system. They get eaten alive by 50y old systems.
Well then fricking do it b***hboy. All I see is russia launching handfuls of missiles at UA that get intercepted. Go and produce your thousand shahed drones and eat those interceptors.
From your own "source"
>Shashed:
>Unit cost: unknown, (various estimates from $10,000 to €50,000)
>Patriot:
>Unit cost: for a single missile US$4 million
Dont skip school pajeet, reading is an important skill in life
KNEEL
spoopsy