No leopards for Ukraine

America will have to step up to the plate and send Abrams.

  1. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    I suppose we have no choice but to send our sep4 versions I guess, Le sigh...

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      not quite out of development yet, production starts soonish

  2. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    More like the Germans are a bunch of cucks that have no initiatives of their own. In a alliance, a
    Initiatives are encouraged.
    >patriots
    Germans refused until america send them a month later.
    >Bradleys
    Germans refuses to give their outdated IFVs until america give the Ukrainians bradleys.
    The german excuse is just a pathetic change in goal posts and its just shows how cuckes they are when it comes to foreign policies.

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Germans are the biggest cucks

      its mostly just scholz being the biggest fucking retard known to man
      Bismarck is fucking hanging himself in his grave right now seeing this retard stumble through geopolitics

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Hook a generator up to Bismarck's corpse and you wouldn't have to worry about buying r*ssian gas anymore...

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          >Hook a generator up to Bismarck's corpse
          A Dresden Codak fan?

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous
      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Bismarck was allied with Russia and went to war with France lol.

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Wer hat uns verraten?
      Sozialdemokraten!

      Always true, akways has been, SPD is a gonna fail any expectation, any thing they promised, they will fail you.
      Scholz is a afraid of the role he is playing. Afraid of a strong germany. Cuck-Scholz.
      We hate him so much.

      Captcha: SS4DYK, kek

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Germs are doing business with vatnik oligarchs for decades. That's the entire reason their nuclear plants got fucked. Literally a nation of retards that started and lost both world wars and keeps funding a criminal regime.

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Putin disposed of the oligarchs over a decade ago.
        Siloviks run Russia now.

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        >Germs are doing business with vatnik oligarchs for decades
        maybe the Russians have some dirt on them. maybe they are being blackmailed into this position

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          or the Germans would rather let Ukrainians die than build some fucking power plants for themselves

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Germany already lost WW2 to Russia, they're not looking forward to losing WW3 to Russia

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >More like the Germans are a bunch of cucks that have no initiatives of their own.

      I think it has a lot to do with USA, UK and Poland blowing up Nordstream pipelines and killing the german industrial sector. They had ignored the green nutjobs and their push for wind mills because they figured that they had their own energy supply secured. Without russian gas they are totally fucked. The russian gas was not only an energy source, it was also raw material for all forms of organic chemicals.

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        >They had ignored the green nutjobs and their push for wind mills because they figured that they had their own energy supply secured.
        yet they couldn't ignore the green nutjobs when they told them to shut down their nuke plants?
        no matter how you slice it, Germans were retarded.

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          >yet they couldn't ignore the green nutjobs when they told them to shut down their nuke plants?
          Merkel did exactly this.
          Greens had a long-term plan how to slowly phase-out nuclear power while bringing alternatives online.
          Merkel cancelled that when she got elected. Then Merkel abruptly phased-out nuclear power with no plan after Fukushima.

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        >USA, UK and Poland blowing up Nordstream pipelines and killing the german industrial sector
        pffftthahahahahaha. There was literal proof of the Russians being around the pipeline before it blew up
        >w-w-well they wouldn't blow up their own pipeline
        Yes they would. It wasn't working. When they blew it up, Putin immediately said 'Well we can turn Nordstream 2 on for you Germany haha :)'. Then if that didn't work they can blame the evil West for doing it.

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >More like the Germans are a bunch of cucks that have no initiatives of their own.
      Its a US occupied country still. Also making them pathetic cucks was the entire program after ww2

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      [...]
      its mostly just scholz being the biggest fucking retard known to man
      Bismarck is fucking hanging himself in his grave right now seeing this retard stumble through geopolitics

      Scholz is just a typicla fabian socialist like a lot of other politicians in the EU. That's pretty much it.

  3. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Germans are the biggest cucks

  4. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    God I fucking hate the German government, they have all this equipment that could be used to fight an enemy that raped and occupied their country for decades, and is now raping and occupying their ally, but they would rather lick their boots. Truly a subverted and retarded nation.

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      More like the Germans are a bunch of cucks that have no initiatives of their own. In a alliance, a
      Initiatives are encouraged.
      >patriots
      Germans refused until america send them a month later.
      >Bradleys
      Germans refuses to give their outdated IFVs until america give the Ukrainians bradleys.
      The german excuse is just a pathetic change in goal posts and its just shows how cuckes they are when it comes to foreign policies.

      tanks are literally nazi-faschism CHUDS. We as germans have a moral debt we must repay in front of our one and only liberators who defeated single handedly the vast majority of the nazi satanic army in their own homes!

  5. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Imagine telling Blücher, Freddy II, Bismarck, Moltke the absolute state of Germany today.

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      this is what happens when you give your little bro the controller

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      None of that would have happened if one retarded Austrian art school reject didn't destroy Germany within 12 years of his rule.

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Sholtz is at least slightly less retarded than Wilhelm II. Slightly

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      They would be more outraged to see Germany being an US colony with millions of brown and black migrants than anything else.

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Wrong.
        They didn't mind millions of garden gnomes.
        garden gnomes are worse than morons.

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      This is consequence of their actions. They deserve this

  6. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Its too bad, maybe its a french/british world forever. Leclerc and challengers when?

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Challengers are the only western MBT going out at the moment.

  7. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    What is this weird MIC blackmail going on?

  8. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    This is what happens if you allow ost germans to have any significance. Ossis should not have been given a right to vote for the next 3 generations after reunifications. It's not as if they contribute economically in first place.
    It's just a huge trojan horse.

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      It also shows how Russia ruins literally everything it touches.

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Fuck you, I hate russians as much as you.
      Also you did you get your daily ass fucking by turk alpha males already?

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        >Also you did you get your daily ass fucking by turk alpha males already?
        The only reason Turks (or any other foreigners, for that matter) don't come to East Germany, but DO come to West Germany, is because East Germany is *awfully* poor.
        It's that simple.

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Trvk here, my family paid more german taxes than your slavish rapebaby family

        Grund warum euch keiner ernst nimmt, müsst erstmal beweisen das ihr mehr Wert seit als Ausländer. Wird nie passieren, daher Ronny Maul halten.

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          >seit
          lern erstmal Deutsch
          https://seitseid.de/

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      The soviets fucked have your population's ideology.. im sorry we should have let you win in the east before making hitler capitulate.

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      This germany is stuffed full of stazi and there are three million rusdian speakers in east germany now. The german left parties like the greens were soviet sockpuppers for decades.West germany was one thing, united germany and the shit from its east is another matter

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        green party is a US puppet, not a russian one. they were trying to legalize pedophilia in the 70s.

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          The grerns and all far left and right groups are Russian shit.Why are you lying?

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            the US is not some "right wing" state. it's an african dump administered by brooklyn garden gnomes.

            • 2 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              Glavset east german spammer and traitor. Jail them

  9. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Do the Germans even HAVE any tanks to spare? I'm pretty sure they'd have o strip their own forces to be able to give any to Ukraine. What's criminal is the fucking state of the German military.

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Who cares, literally everyone else wants to give the Leopards, like Poland and Sweden. But Scholz is blocking those too.

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        They could just, you know, not listen to him.

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          Uniroinically are they worried about Germany throwing economic tariffs or punishment at them? Can you even do that if they're all in the EU together? Will Germany threaten never to sell German arms to them again? What if they accept that penalty? Are they worried about, like, a reputation hit or some sort of credit score thing but for imported goods? Is that even a legitimate concept in this sense?

          Just fucking dont listen to the Germans. Oh, grave insult to Germany. And?

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            They could just, you know, not listen to him.

            No they just don't want to harm relationships with Germany's defense contractors over this

            • 2 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              Who cares, fuck 'em.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Okay, so the Germans' MIC is gonna get butthurt
                Those Poles are already shaking hands with the Koreans. Japan might as well lick their chops and get in on the game as well. European arms market just opened up big time.
                Is France's MIC fucking asleep

                Most big arms projects are interconnected in some way. Most high caliber cannons from western countries come from Rheinmetall or a company OWNED by Rheinmetall.
                Sure, Poland can tell Rheinmetall to go fuck itself but then it'll lose access to 90% of its guns that aren't rifles.

            • 2 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              Okay, so the Germans' MIC is gonna get butthurt
              Those Poles are already shaking hands with the Koreans. Japan might as well lick their chops and get in on the game as well. European arms market just opened up big time.
              Is France's MIC fucking asleep

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                The Korean tanks are just so poland can start making their own shit.
                >Is France's MIC fucking asleep
                France is trying to become a major power idk if they want to send their shit.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >poland wants its own shit
                of course they do and because of german autism they got a pretty good deal out of the koreans
                the eventual K2PL probably won't be as good as the leopard but you'll be able to buy it without a million restrictions and poles will probably sell you spare parts blueprints as well
                worst korea also likes having a factory able to manufacture their shit overseas, which is likely part of the deal

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                All poland has to do is get their industry up and running and then i doubt the K2pl will even be their tank for long.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                it won't, but incremental designs based on it will
                the poles have a reasonable industrial base and due to the invasion have gained shitload of people feeling from ukraine
                of course, to think that they will eclipse german or even french industry is ludicrous, but they might prove a serious enough competitor that the germans will think twice about their policy going forward

            • 2 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              arms manufacturers give only a shit about free cash flow. Free advertising of their wunderwaffel in a big conventional war since WW2 is not a "damaging" thing. Only thing really pissing them off is how unreliably the socialists ruling coalitiong is making them look with these idiotic export binding contracts.

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            as a Kraut I hope poles just fucking do it
            I just want to see leopard 2s in action

            • 2 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              Based kraut.

              Trustworthiness, integrity and honoring agreements is a big part of what separates us from r*ssians.

              bro, is you fucking retarded?
              >It's the law! Do not violate the law to prevent violation of law! LAW!
              Fucking hell.
              Blood and guts.
              Men and steel.
              Kill the Russian.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >>It's the law!
                Yes.
                >Kill the Russian.
                Yes.

                The ball regarding Leo2s is in Germany's court. We'll do our best through other means until they get their shit together.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                more like Poland ran to press instead of asking Germany.
                now Germany insists to follow the proper process.

                The Germans won't give permission. Leo2s will go to Ukraine. German export military has committed suicide. South Korea wins. Simple as.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                it makes zero sense to replace a third-gen MBTs with another third-gen MBTs.
                besides some marginal number of Eastern European NATO countries that don't have third-gen MBTs yet, there's no market to lose.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Imagine the future exists. And Germany is a cuck bitch. Why in the fuck would you buy from Germany when they can shut off the tap any time Russia goes full retard? Because that's the future, anon. Ukraine is just the beginning.
                And the Euros who aren't completely pozzed know it.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Only Poland is making trouble and Poland always hated Germany for WW2.
                Poland's populist government still calls Germans Nazis.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Poland. Right. Who has no reason to hate Russia. At all.
                Mark my words. Screen cap this post, everyone who has leopards will eventually send them to Ukraine. And Germany will bitch and moan about it. And German military exports will die. And S. Korea will benefit greatly. And Russia will be expelled from Ukraine. And there will be no nuclear holocaust when Russia loses, because it's easier and more profitable to murder Putin than to commit suicide for dear leader when you're an oligarch.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >everyone who has leopards will eventually send them to Ukraine. And Germany will bitch and moan about it.
                this doesn't even make sense.
                Germany has Leos.
                > it's easier and more profitable to murder Putin than to commit suicide for dear leader when you're an oligarch
                Putin disposed of the oligarchs like two decades ago. Khodorkovsky is even out of prison now and in exile like the rest of the oligarchs that didn't want to give up their power voluntarily.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Germany sold a lot more Leo's than they they kept. Am I arguing with children?

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Yes. And bots and trolls.

                Fish should be ITAR restricted.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                I'm so disgusted with the state of groupthink on PrepHole.
                Russia is fucked.
                Germany is fucked.
                The EU remains to be seen.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Apples and oranges.
                Do you think every Leo2 ever sold is still working?
                CW is over. Everyone reduced their active tanks.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >Leo2s have been retired!
                >The cold war it over!
                >Nobody has tanks anymore!
                Do you think about the things you say or are you paid to be retarded?

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                So you aren't going to answer the actual question.
                You are comparing number of sold Leo2s vs active Leo2s in German forces.
                You should count operational Leo2s from everyone.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                You somehow think Germany has more active leopard 2s (false) than NATO nations who adopted the leopard2 and are willing to send them to Ukraine, but are hindered by Germany being cunts as usual.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >NATO nations who adopted the leopard2 and are willing to send them to Ukraine
                Poland wants to send a company to Ukraine.
                Germany has more than a company of active Leo2s.

                you are full of shit.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >Poland is the only country in NATO with leopards.
                You're retarded.
                German military industrial complex is suicidally pacifist.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >NATO nations who adopted the leopard2 and are willing to send them to Ukraine
                Poland wants to send a company to Ukraine.
                Germany has more than a company of active Leo2s.

                you are full of shit.

                You're both retarded because Lolabd only wants to send any if "a broad coalition of nations" does the same.
                Which is the same thing Scholz has been saying for months.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Is that why the poles said that they'll do it without permission if the Germans don't unfuck themselves?

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                They'll do it without permission if a broad coalition of countries does it.
                Which is literally Scholz' condition anyway.
                You fell for polish propaganda.

                don't believe Polish lies.
                >Poland’s president Andrzej Duda said his government would send a company of German-built Leopard 2 tanks to Ukraine’s army “as part of the building of an international coalition”. A company implies about 14 tanks.
                that was two weeks ago and that "international coalition" still failed to materialize.

                True.

                >Which is the same thing Scholz has been saying for months.
                Scholz doesn't speak

                I heard his voice once.

                https://i.imgur.com/9FBRJLd.png

                The German insistence on sending US tanks is retarded. The Abrams would be a white elephant for the Ukrainians. It has an overly complicated engine, it requires more fuel, maintenance and logistics capabilities. Sending the lower maintenance, designed for conscript use, more fuel efficient leopards which are already in nations bordering Ukraine and the relative proximity to infrastructure to repair and maintain them is the least retarded option that kills more Russians per dollar spent.
                I don't know why this is hard to understand.
                Germans are just gay peaceniks.
                Sack the fuck up.

                There's no German insistence to send Abrams but the
                >muh logistics
                Argument is completely fake anyway.
                Maintenance and supply depots could be set up easily. That's one of the things the US army is very good at. Look up how quickly it happend in every invaded shithole in the last 30 years.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                You dense motherfucker. The fucking krauts have literally said they won't send leopards until we send Abrams. They've backpedaled since, but why wouldn't they?
                >Muh logistics fake, US Army, etc
                Listen here, moron, the US Army isn't fighting in Ukraine. You've got inexpensive, easy to maintain tanks in the neighborhood. And then you've got expensive, complicated, more maintenance intensive tanks across an ocean.
                I swear to fucking Christ, you "people" are all retarded.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                don't believe Polish lies.
                >Poland’s president Andrzej Duda said his government would send a company of German-built Leopard 2 tanks to Ukraine’s army “as part of the building of an international coalition”. A company implies about 14 tanks.
                that was two weeks ago and that "international coalition" still failed to materialize.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >Which is the same thing Scholz has been saying for months.
                Scholz doesn't speak

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                The German insistence on sending US tanks is retarded. The Abrams would be a white elephant for the Ukrainians. It has an overly complicated engine, it requires more fuel, maintenance and logistics capabilities. Sending the lower maintenance, designed for conscript use, more fuel efficient leopards which are already in nations bordering Ukraine and the relative proximity to infrastructure to repair and maintain them is the least retarded option that kills more Russians per dollar spent.
                I don't know why this is hard to understand.
                Germans are just gay peaceniks.
                Sack the fuck up.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Ukraine said it needs 300 MBTs.
                UK can send 16.
                Poland can send 16.

                You aren't going to get 300 MBTs by a far shot even if all the smaller European countries start committing.
                Abrams are needed.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >And there will be no nuclear holocaust when Russia loses
                this is just another pure zigger cope. If they get completely routed they will just memory hole this war with a copeganda spin like they have done to any other war they have lost. Like winter or WW1 or russo-japanese war etc.

                Future generations cant learn much about this if the survivors have either moved on, died or been socially isolated. And the history books never talk about this war much other then a few footnotes inbetween volumes upon volumes of how mighty stronk rasha was in the great patriotic war under the iron fisted leadership of the mighty tzar stalin (the man of steel).

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Memoryholing takes a while though. Immediate aftermath of the Russo-Japanese war was the 1905 revolution and the aftermath of WW1 was the Russian Civil War

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >The Germans won't give permission.
                A possible outcome, but what makes you so sure of it?

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Because the krauts are gays addicted to cheap Russian natural gas. Their entire heavy industry capability relies on it. And that's over. But they don't realize it yet

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                NS was destroyed. There's not much gas flowing anymore.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                NS 1 was destroyed the new and intact NS2 is still around. Funny coinicide

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Pipe A of NS2 was also destroyed.
                Pipe B is still intact but NS2 was never turned on.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Ok. You have pretty childish and simplistic worldviews. Was there anything else?

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >Childish and simplistic worldviews.
                Shut up, Scholz, nobody cares.
                You're already irrelevant.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                because if they wanted to send military equipment to the country being invaded they wouldn't be fucking asking for every dotted line signed in triplicate would they? So long as they keep being retarded about that they will continue to show how little they actually want to help.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Anon, do you think you can export any piece of military hardware made by anybody without written permission by the source? It is a simple formality everybody sticks to. Try exporting ITAR restricted material to Ukraine without getting explicit permission and see how that works out for you.
                Germany said they want a coalition:
                https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/us-calls-countries-dig-deeper-ukraine-pressure-builds-tanks-2023-01-20/

                Poland said they want a coalition:
                https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/poland-plans-give-ukraine-leopard-tanks-part-coalition-2023-01-11/

                There is no coalition yet, mostly because it’s not as easy as you think to provide 300 tanks and spares. Replacement costs alone make this a major issue.
                Sending token gestures like the 12CR2s is pointless. You would have to build - multiple brigade size force or it’s pointless from a logistical standpoint.
                Two spearhead brigades and two regular mech brigades are 6 batallion equivalents, so roughly 300 hulls. That’s without reserves and accounting for the fact that you will never reach 100% readiness in the field.
                It’s either all Leo2 operators chip in, or the thing is not going to fly.

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            Modern politics is a sideshow. The real power players behind the scenes, the real "deep state" if you will has always been the big money corporations, industrialists, and arms manufacturers of a 'country'. National governments are little more than the citizens representative for negotiating with the big money interests that reside in their territory.

            When nations go to war it is really the "oligarchs" of that nation going to war over economic interests.

            • 2 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              >When nations go to war it is really the "oligarchs" of that nation going to war over economic interests.

              If that horseshit was true Putin wouldn't have forced Russia into an economically disastrous war while frisbeeing all his oligarchs out of windows. Not every country is the U.S.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                I don't know if you realize this but Putin himself is extremely wealthy. So wealthy that he is possibly worth more then the next 10 oligarchs in his country combined. When he roped them into war it was because he had more influence than them and more money on the line from petroleum losses.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                isn't putler like a full head shorter than trump
                at least without his platform shoes

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                and getting imprisoned inside a rasha going down the toilet (more then usual) is exactly beneficial for all of that paper wealth? he invaded because he wants to build another russhitia imperial construct like the two previous versions FFS

                this is what plebs with little to no savings never get. Wealth is a secondary concern. Raw, untrimmed POWER is the most highest priority for these egomaniacs. How you measure it is relative. Like Best Korea is not wealthy but is looked upon favorably by the likes of monke or pooh bear. Simply because the Kim dynasty has raw, absolute power of their subjects to do as they please. The more wealth like money you have, the less you value each million coming in as all your desires like expensive toys from mansions to women have been satisfying. Instead you start looking to convert that wealth into unrestrained, raw political power.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                This shit with Putin isn't to just build a russian empire, its to form a block with China to basically take over from the West, basically replace the US and the EU and its surpanational organizations with their own supranational organizations hence BRICS, BRICS bank etc. Its to take over the world from the current owners, the West. Though at this point the "West" is actually just internationalists. No bullshit.

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            Trustworthiness, integrity and honoring agreements is a big part of what separates us from r*ssians.

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        no one wants to send Leo2s in significant numbers.
        if you add them all up, it's not even enough for one BCT.

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          >no one wants to send Leo2s in significant numbers.
          these fucking garbage politicians should literally be shot to enforce military discipline on civilian leadership

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        So how many of those countries have put in a formal export request. Everybody who's talking a big game about exporting leopards without actually taking concrete steps to do it is just pandering.
        It's the Ukraine war equivalent for blaming the EU for an unpopular law your party supported. Whoops there's a higher power preventing us from doing the thing we totally want to do sorry. It's all bullshit

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          Unknown. Those requests wouldn't be public.
          Last time Germany said there are no requests has almost a week ago.

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Stop it with this bullshit. This has nothing to do with Germany giving away any single one of its own tanks. This is about anyone else who owns any Leopards having permission to give away any of theirs. Or sell them. Germany is refusing to let ANY country give ANY Leopard to Ukraine.

      There are over 2000 Leopards in service in Europe right now. This doesn't count any that are out of service, under maintenance, in mothball, whatever. It would be trivial to send 200 into Ukraine, it's even probable that 500 could be sent before April 1st.

      There's training & logistics to consider, but 500 could be either in Ukraine or on the way before April 1st.

      Except, Germany ...........

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        This is all just excuses. No one needs Germany's permission. I'm not saying that to excuse the fact they won't give it, I'm saying it because it means they're all simply different degrees of cucked. Rather than take action on their own initiative like the British, they won't do it without being backed by Germany.

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        This is all just excuses. No one needs Germany's permission. I'm not saying that to excuse the fact they won't give it, I'm saying it because it means they're all simply different degrees of cucked. Rather than take action on their own initiative like the British, they won't do it without being backed by Germany.

        Send your formal requests for exports to Berlin anytime instead of shit posting about it for Popcorn headlines

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          Give any hint you might approve them and they will.

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Poland and Spain have more operational Leopards than germcucks. The problem is others need their approval before sending those tanks to kill russians.

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        And Germany didn't immediately give their approval because ___________.

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          Nobody requested an export license for Leopards.

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          Crying that Germany won’t give them permission. This is the most butthurt belt thing ever.

          Maybe the US bombing Germany’s gas pipeline has something to do with them not being eager to join americas proxy war

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        why would any country publish their military's operational status?

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          Just few years ago you had morons taking about how wars are over and no EU country needs army anymore.

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            But going by that, besides France, no EU country has an actual operational army.
            The all will run out of ammunition within days.

  10. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Leopard 2 confirmed so bad the Krauts are embarrassed to send their wunderwaffe to fight in a real war. Lmao

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Leo 2 is quite good and Turkey made them look good.

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      The greens are estroying the german heavy weapons industry and the kremlin is delighted with agent olaf.

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        fake news.
        Greens are the most militaristic party in Germany and want to give Leopards to Ukraine.

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          Yet they are not. Olafs a vatmoron agent.

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            Olaf isn't a member of the Greens

  11. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    I wonder what Rheinmetall, Thyssen Krupp and HK feel about this shit show... Why would any country buy leos when some cuck in germany gets to tell them what to do with them?

    Also
    >imagine buying ANYTHING from the fucking swisscucks

  12. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    ITT: Concrete proof that the West doesn't want Ukraine to win, they want Afghanistan 2.0 for Russia
    >sorry ukrains, but we need this conflict to last for at least 3-4 years so we can slowly bleed Russia dry of both men and material

  13. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Dont be too harsh on him
    its my baby's first geopolitics ;(

  14. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    So like what even is the rationale for "I won't give tanks unless USA does it furst"?

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      thats not even the current excuse anymore
      Scholz's new excuse is because of "german tanks on the eastern front bad!!!" or something

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Why do they need excuses? Why doesn't Germany just give a bunch of tanks and help Ukraine win the war?

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          Germany itself doesn't really have any tanks, it's more about everyone else.

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            >Germany itself doesn't really have any tanks
            if they themselves aren't planning to use theirs for anything they could give EVERYTHING they have to Ukraine, who are sustaining casualties and probably in combat contact with the enemy right now as I am typing this

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            Germany has more tanks then France or Britain
            and its Defense Companies still have some in storage just waiting to be used

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            Hence why it's so weird that they are blocking the export of Leopards. Every tank that gets sent to Ukraine will need to be replaced, and then some now that Russia has gone mask-off. Do Germans simply not care about their own prosperity?

            • 2 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              They're only "blocking" it because everyone else is for some reason willing to ask their permission. These are sovereign states, they don't need Germany's permission to send them, it's just an excuse.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Is it really so hard to say "we approve any export of leopards to ukraine"? Did Putin personally brainwash Scholz that Leopards in Ukraine mean nuclear armageddon? I can't think of any other reasons tbh.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                These countries agreed on re-export restrictions, and it could be interpreted as a breach of trust if they ignore them. However, it is still not beneficial in any way for Germany to oppose this.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Who cares. What is Germany gonna do, publicly side with the Russians?

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >What is Germany gonna do
                be utterly fucking useless in cleaning up the mess caused by German Empire

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Military sales have on-sale and disposal clauses. If you breach them then they're within rights to cease providing other parts of the contract (eg spares, technical support) and may have a case for damages. Not breaching on-sale FMS clauses is for realpolitikal reasons, not a lack of sovereignty or balls. Poland rapidly buying loads if SK shit with permissive on-sale restrictions is a decent responae. Also, grow up. Real life isn't HoI.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                I don't see why anyone should care what Germany wants or thinks. Break the contract. Let them embargo everyone in response, they're just handing more contracts to the Americans. They deserve to be isolated until they stop being cowards.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >I don't see why anyone should care what Germany wants or thinks.
                Germany should be churning out a thousand Leopards a month right now and shipping them right into combat zone

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                But they're not going to, which is why I've written them off entirely. For all intents and purposes they're merely a very large American base.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                the Germans should literally round up the fifth columnists and shoot them

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >they're just handing more contracts to the Americans
                Most of the countries on question are far more worried about greater defence dependence on America than German politicians working for Russia blocking on-sale to the Ukraine. America's power worries people, especially because the presidential system appears to be catastrophically broken, routinely electing degenerates, madmen and geriatrics to a position with enormous real power in foreign relations.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Then they can wallow in irrelevance. The idea you can rule the world with money alone is a catastrophic Euro delusion. If it weren't for the Eastern Euro countries being in the way (who don't deserve to be conquered) I'd argue for the Americans letting the Russians have at the rest of them so they can have reality slapped in their faces.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                The current geriatric madman waging a war of genocidal aggression on Eastern Europe's doorstep makes your impotent seething about Trump and Biden a little holllow

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Being better than russia is nothing to be proud of.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Putin is six years younger than Trump and ten years younger than Biden, and was inaugerated 23 years ago. That it, he was more than three decades younger than Biden and nearly three decades younger than Trump when they were inaugerated. Russia's political system is fucked, but don't let yourself pretend FOR EVEN A SECOND that the rest of the world has a fetish for making people who should be in nursing homes their heads of state the way America does.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >sabotage own arms industry by encouraging neighbors to buy from SK
                In what way does Germany benefit from this?

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Germany doesn't. The Russian agents who wield political power in Germany do. Everyone knows German politics was completely overrun with Russian assetals after reunification. Even without access to classified reporting, it doesn't take a genius to put two and two together.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Literally no one has asked
                Poland keeps saying it wants to but hasnt put in a requests
                Either you're all falling for basic ass propaganda or you're reddit tourists

            • 2 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              I don’t think they know how to war anymore since it’s been almost more than a century.

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          >Why doesn't Germany just give a bunch of tanks and help Ukraine win the war?
          because of sabotaging 5th columnists in Germany who should be rounded up and "shot during escape attempt"

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            Are there any pro-ukrainian demonstrations at least?

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            What about German army already being a joke and not in a position to reduce their numbers in order to please beggars? This while Americans have tons of stored abrams they can get rid of.

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        >Scholz's new excuse is because of "german tanks on the eastern front bad!!!" or something
        its absolutely fucking infuriating because soviet union was germanys mess in the first place now they don't to clean it up

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >The issue of transferring Western tanks to Ukraine was not resolved at a meeting between US Secretary of Defense Lloyd Austin and his German counterpart Boris Pistorius, CNN reported. Many German officials are against the transfer of their tanks to Ukraine for moral reasons: "again German tanks against Russians", which is unacceptable because of the analogies with World War II.

      >According to her, "despite the private pressure campaign carried out by Austin, the issue of tank deliveries remains unresolved" on the eve of a meeting of Western defense ministers at the US Ramstein Air Base in Germany. Sources of the TV company believe that the German authorities "are unlikely to change their position" on this issue. According to CNN, a number of high-ranking representatives of the US administration are expressing dissatisfaction with the position of the German government.

      https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.cnn.com/cnn/2023/01/19/politics/us-germany-ukraine-tanks-weapons/index.html

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        >Many German officials are against the transfer of their tanks to Ukraine for moral reasons: "again German tanks against Russians",
        all you can say is lol

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          it sounds like a parody

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Ignoring that they killed millions of Ukrainians as well...

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          Bolshevik were bankrolled by the German Empire

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        >moral reasons
        >again German tanks against Russians
        when was war ever moral?

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        So let's say in some bizzaro world Russia was competent and rolled Ukraine and moved to the Baltics, would Germany refuse to respond because "muh Eastern front muh optics"?

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          NATO article 5 gets invoked: US generals are at the top of the chain of the command for German forces.
          German politicians can only watch.

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          Depends. Would the Russians still sell them cheap gas?

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            Germany owns Russian gas fields, they wouldn't need to pay

      • 2 weeks ago
        Sage

        >Molotov–Ribbentrop Pact
        >Killed shittons of Ukrainians who were happy they were invaded by someone other than the Russians during WW2
        Still retarded Nazis in spirit, just incredibly politically correct ones this time trying to become buttbuddies with Russians before the inevitable happens.

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff again said that it's retarded to go for a military win and we should negotiate peace.

          instant you want to escalate the conflict further with more weapons.

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            >Mark "I want to understand White rage" Milley
            >Mark "I practically tried for a coup and simped for China" Milley
            Yeah no I don't really give a shit about what he says, he can go fuck himself.

  15. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    oh no that sucks haha

  16. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Reminder that no country has actually requested to export Leopards to Ukraine.
    Germany hasn't blocked anything.

  17. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    On the one hand I'm ashamed of being german.
    On the other hand, we were being overrun by morons and assorted shitskins before and will do so after. Germany is lost, germany was always going to go out with a whimper. Who cares what happens to the reputation of a dead country.

  18. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    The solution is unironically Canada. Canada could divest our entire Leopard force to Ukraine, buy a K2 factory and put it in whatever province Trudy thinks he needs votes from. It would be perfect virtue signaling for him and Canada isn't reliant on much German military stuff if they get pissy over it. It would take a few years to rebuild our tank force but it's not like Canada is going to get involved in a land war without the US to hide behind.

  19. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >Q: Thank you very much. Mr. Secretary, is Germany doing enough in order to show real leadership in Europe? Thank you.
    >
    >SEC. AUSTIN: Yes, but we can all do more, and you know, the United States and every other member of the UDC can do more.
    >
    >You know, Germany has contributed a lot to this campaign. You know, from the very beginning, we saw them cycle in air defense capability, the Gepards, the Patriots most recently, IRIS-T. They've stepped up and offered to provide the Marders. They will provide the -- those Marders and conduct the training on those platforms. And we are training Ukrainian soldiers on maneuver and other things and specialty things here in Germany as well, so Germany's opened it -- continues to open its doors and make the training areas and facilities available for us to continue to do the work that we need to do.
    >
    >And Germany is also training troops and training battalion and brigade headquarters. So, you know, they have a -- a big oar in the water, like the rest of the -- of Contact Group does, and they're working hand in hand with the -- with the rest of our colleagues here.

  20. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    More vatnik's coping for things thatisn't real. Ukraine is support by the whole world. Suck it pidor.

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >Ukraine is support by the whole world
      but for some utterly retarded reasons, the subhuman garbage politicians are letting Ukraine suffer more casualties than necessary

  21. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    No country is doing the minimum. Is there any country which opened a factory line to give Ukraine a steady supply of APCs or modern howitzers? Nope, but Germany should go all out and allow all Leopard 2 tanks to be driven into Russian artillery fire. Ridiculous.

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >but Germany should go all out and allow all Leopard 2 tanks to be driven into Russian artillery fire. Ridiculous.
      yes, Russias current leadership is still the soviet secret police, who were helped into power by the German Empire.

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      MBTs are maneuverable and can break through lines

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >No country is doing the minimum.
      disagreed, Ukraine isn't losing. so minimum is achieved.
      tho agreed that MBTs role isn't really in stabilizing defensive lines.

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      actually pretty sad when I saw the real aid numbers. Ukies seem to have this idea that they'll launch another offensive when the aid(s) comes but that deadline is just getting moved further and further back

      stop pretending NATO isn't some US-led alliance.
      If US orders Germany to send arms, they will.

      The states can go fuck themselves and supply their own goddamn tanks since this is clearly all this is about

      Actually the entirety of western europe outside of Britan seems cool of the ukraine war

  22. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Germans are eternal traitors

  23. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    I'm chuckling at the PrepHoleommando kiddie rage here. Did you think when globohomo blew up those Baltic Sea pipelines to Germany, there wouldn't be repercussions?

    Newsflash, you may be globohomo's faithful servants, obeying slavishly, but others are not. When globohomo told Japan to cease their massive energy transmission projects from Russia, untold billions of engineering and construction work, Japan told globohomo to go fuck themselves.

    You globohomo enjoyers may want to rethink all this. The eurocucks in their entirety would be next. Their economies are imploding.

    It's probably fitting that it's Germany and Japan who are stymying globohomo now, at least showing signs of it. They got raped hard, mostly by their own tyrannical versions of globohomo, and likely know a rapist when they see one. And they know how this all ends.

    And make no mistake, globohomo is fascist to the core.

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      does the homo in globohomo stand for homosexuality or homogenization?

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        superior homo

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        NTA
        Homosexuality, only newfags think otherwise.
        Of course, the globohomo meme was meant as self criticism of the west, it's pathetic and hilarious when Russians or other nonwhite poorfag countries try to criticize the west. Try having toilets before you even think about comparing yourself to the west.

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        It stands for homosapiens
        all these self declared "enemies of globohomo" are enemies of civilized humanity.

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          >globohomo is civilized humanity.
          Kek

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            please note politicians aren't people

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        >does the homo in globohomo stand for homosexuality or homogenization?

        Originally, it was homogenization, but the term could equally well stand for homosexual homogenization.

  24. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >Send Abrams
    >The only tank in the world that uses the single most inefficient and complex manner of engine (besides the T-80 which were virtually all converted to diesel)
    >which can only exist on cheap and plentiful oil or good logistics
    >While the US has supplied by far the most weaponry
    Nah this is cope, America has stepped up since the first HIMARS was shipped. Krauts didn't budge on Marders until America told them Bradleys were incoming.

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      But the Americans aren't sending F-16s or ATACMS, which they could easily do. They literally have the opportunity to destroy the Russian bomber force and they're not taking it.

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        >F-16s
        Can of worms which means NATO will have to set up repair depots in Poland right over the border for maintenance.
        >ATACMS
        Still retarded boomers holding onto the notion of repeat escalation and nuclear retaliation from Russia which at this point likely won't happen.

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          Boomers will be dead soon. Need to ensure WW3 happens.

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        even if, US would supply those: US will never allow for rules of engagement to chase Russian bombers into enemy territory.
        US rather lost Vietnam.

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          >F-16s
          Can of worms which means NATO will have to set up repair depots in Poland right over the border for maintenance.
          >ATACMS
          Still retarded boomers holding onto the notion of repeat escalation and nuclear retaliation from Russia which at this point likely won't happen.

          it's such a limp dick way of thinking
          you have an opportunity to forever destroy your enemy at the cost of 0 American lives, why not take it?

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            >you have an opportunity to forever destroy your enemy at the cost of 0 American lives, why not take it?
            Literally this. Ukraine is a godsend.

            Cold war gone hot but this time no fifth column.

            • 2 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              This is basically a civil war within the Soviet Union.
              Supplying NATO weapons to one side of the Soviet Union is not CW turning hot.
              Did you already forget Afghanistan?

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Russia is still lead by the soviet secret police and German Empire helped them into power, this is Germanys mess

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Siloviks are no bolsheviks

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                stop with the subhuman garbage and send Ukraine tanks, clean up your fucking mess

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                it is not like afghanistan because this is actually winnable only for one side and it is NATO aligned
                there is barely any support for russia west of dniepr and the eastern side is dubious at best
                were the russians to wrestle a military victory somehow, they'd end up with a lot of land full of extremely hostile population
                the best case for the russians is that ukraine ends up like chechnya, ruled by a warlord and barely providing any value to the russian government

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Ukraine is literally the reason North Korea has ICBMs.
                Ukrainian oligarchs will sell out the west.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                what are they going to sell?
                everything they have right now is so old a good hobbyist could replicate it
                it's not like we're giving them their nukes back

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Ukraine never had working nukes

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                the difficult part is obtaining the fissile material which can be obtained simply by disassembling soviet bombs

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                They did, but signed the Budapest Memorandum and gave them up

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                there's no reason to believe they didn't
                it made sense to station nukes in Ukraine back then and it was a full part of the USSR and soviets had so many nukes that they didn't know what to do with them
                Ukrops gave up their nukes in exchange for a paper and probably hopes of a faster NATO membership
                neither turned out to be holding much value

                physical control does not mean operational control of nukes.
                Russia never gave them the codes for operational control.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                assuming an operable academic base you can take the fissile material out of functional nukes and make your own weapons in the matter of days
                the big bottleneck is centrifuge farms required to make the proper uranium in the first place
                this is all, of course, a moot point as most nuclear warheads decay to the point of not being able to be fired in a few (less than 10) years

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                If you have physical access to the nukes, couldn't you just rip out the security electronics and replace them?

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                that's not how PAL works
                >Bypassing a PAL should be, as one weapons designer graphically put it, about as complex as performing a tonsillectomy while entering the patient from the wrong end.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                all PAL is rendered moot once you're no longer after the device itself and you just want to extract the material
                most countries have the R&D capabilities to build an ICBM given a box of fissile uranium

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                What if you just ripped it down to the core and build your own nuke reusing the explosive lenses? Ukraine could probably have remanufactured a warhead.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                you won't get the timing and amount of explosives right to trigger the pit.
                you will only end up with a dirty bomb.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                You know that Ukraine more or less made a good chunk of the nuclear ballistic missile infrastructure, from the missiles to warheads themselves, right? Being one of the "smart" parts of the Soviet Union means a lot.
                https://en.interfax.com.ua/news/general/882921.html

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Let's assume operational control.
                Now Ukraine has ICBMs with a min range of 5,000 miles. So they can reach DC but not Moscow.
                DC will not be amused.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >Ukraine not being allowed to point their smaller tactical nukes at Moscow instead to preserve sovereignty was a mistake.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Ukraine didn't have any tactical nukes, just strategic missile forces.
                Besides ICBMs, Ukraine only had Backfires, but those bombers wouldn't reach Moscow.
                So Ukraine didn't have any delivery system to realistically threaten Moscow.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >realistically threaten Moscow.

                Vladivostok, Novosibirsk and Krasnoyarsk though...

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Officer who served on them in the 90's said that they could launch them independently from the army command, they just needed authorization to "reroute" the system

                @12:02

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                there's no reason to believe they didn't
                it made sense to station nukes in Ukraine back then and it was a full part of the USSR and soviets had so many nukes that they didn't know what to do with them
                Ukrops gave up their nukes in exchange for a paper and probably hopes of a faster NATO membership
                neither turned out to be holding much value

            • 2 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              >but this time no fifth column
              If that were true anon, this thread wouldn't exist.

              What is this weird MIC blackmail going on?

              >What is this weird MIC blackmail going on?
              lol, Scholz is paid off but not by Putin but by General Dynamics Land Systems.

              ITT: Concrete proof that the West doesn't want Ukraine to win, they want Afghanistan 2.0 for Russia
              >sorry ukrains, but we need this conflict to last for at least 3-4 years so we can slowly bleed Russia dry of both men and material

              >the West doesn't want Ukraine to win, they want Afghanistan 2.0 for Russia
              The brutal truth is that Ukraine needs that too, they need Russia bled dry, not just driven out.

              https://i.imgur.com/tajN4xN.png

              The solution is unironically Canada. Canada could divest our entire Leopard force to Ukraine, buy a K2 factory and put it in whatever province Trudy thinks he needs votes from. It would be perfect virtue signaling for him and Canada isn't reliant on much German military stuff if they get pissy over it. It would take a few years to rebuild our tank force but it's not like Canada is going to get involved in a land war without the US to hide behind.

              >it's not like Canada is going to get involved in a land war without the US to hide behind
              Russia even has to go through Alaska to get there lol

              https://i.imgur.com/5wXmpSV.jpg

              I don't know if you realize this but Putin himself is extremely wealthy. So wealthy that he is possibly worth more then the next 10 oligarchs in his country combined. When he roped them into war it was because he had more influence than them and more money on the line from petroleum losses.

              >Putin himself is extremely wealthy
              His wealth is immaterial, he can just take whatever he wants from any of the others.

              His power isn't from his wealth, it's from being able to arbitrarily arrest and imprison or just murder any of the others.

              Above a certainly level of wealth in Russia; nobody makes a dollar without giving Putin a dime.

              there is a point to be made there, but think about the bigger picture and what russia is made of
              if CIA was able to support numerous coups in latin america, I'm sure they could manage to prop up countless separatists in russia and keep the central government busy until someone manages to consolidate power
              which may or may not happen, seeing as there is no clear successor figure in current russian politics

              >if CIA was able to support numerous coups in latin america, I'm sure they could manage to prop up countless separatists in russia
              They don't have a good track record of this thing.
              They only thing they've ever been really good at is having an in-place military coup against a democratically elected left-wing government.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >His power isn't from his wealth, it's from being able to arbitrarily arrest and imprison or just murder any of the others.
                All of that costs money. He might have started out a KGB grunt but when the union collapsed and everyone in government was scooping up assets he was smart enough to go deep into the petroleum industry. He stays wealthy because he uses his secret police to get kickbacks from everyone else. Not so different from American politicians taking lobbyist money, he just happens to have a better negotiating position than most presidents since his term never ends. But the same mafia don setup he has also stagnates his own economy since no one can ever really compete economically with a protected industry. So it is a weird pseudo-command economy that is basically run by the secret police.

                A dumb setup to be sure, but in this situation he is still only the most powerful oligarch of the bunch. If he could be disposed there is not doubt an underling somewhere who would be more than happy to take his place as the new mafia don.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                The word you're looking for is 'kleptocracy'

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                the problem is that Ukraine is also a kleptocracy

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Everyone is laughing at your unproven claims vatnik

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >Everyone is laughing at your unproven claims vatnik
                the same document that holds the proof about Ukrainian gene-engineered super soldiers and western bioweapons says zelenskys a crime lord

                >Criminal Activities
                >knee-breaker
                >contract killer
                >pimp
                >drug dealer
                >counterfeiter (of welfare chits)
                >brothel-keeper
                >gambling overlord
                >smuggler

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                no, ukraine is a troubled and much-maligned post-soviet state trying to become a modern one

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                when were they trying?
                i didn't see any reforms.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Every Ukrainian now has gun rights. This alone ensures the oligarchs can only operate behind the scenes, never openly in fear of robbery, assassination, or terrorism. Look at the US, where rich people hide in their bubbles and often die when they poke their head out. Sadly, communist states ensure their safety by restricting guns.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                No, Ukraine was/is much closer to a stereotypical Latin American democracy than a Russian-style kleptocracy. There's oligarchs, but they compete with each other for control of the state, and politicians compete for their patronage, while there's an underlying current desiring real change and new faces every election. That's how Zelensky got his job, but he was losing popularity before the war since it seemed like he couldn't make real change.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >Ukraine was/is much closer to a stereotypical Latin American democracy than a Russian-style kleptocracy
                This makes all the shitposting about the US losing a war with Mexico even more fitting kek

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Good post.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >If he could be disposed there is not doubt an underling somewhere who would be more than happy to take his place as the new mafia don
                He disposes of anyone that could possibly unite or fend off their rivals and generally disposes of anyone competent enough to govern too.

                Almost every dictator like this relies on playing off subordinates, promoting one, demoting another to keep them in constant conflict.
                Wagner, Kadyrov, the FSB and the Army could never unite with or trust each other and prevent any of them from challenging Putin.

                Putin has does this successfully enough that there really isn't anyone around who can realistically challenge him.

                >All of that costs money
                It doesn't cost money, it costs treasure and it's not his treasure directly, the state's assets are the treasure that he uses to pay off and punish the different factions by granting and denying them access to it. He doesn't hand Kadyrov cash, he just lets him run some industry.

                And that treasure isn't required to secure his power, just to keep factions on side instead of unaligned. The FSB, laws, prison and murder don't require money, he can make dictate laws because any rebels in the Duma are arrested or murdered. He can have people arrested because the FSB work for him and he orders them, if they don't then they'll be arrested by someone else.
                Judges do what they're told and maybe they're paid off but I'm sure they could disappear if they disobeyed.

                This discusses the dynamics of dictator courts pretty well.

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            That's not true: a swift victory for Ukraine is not in the interest of the US.
            Russia will regroup.

            A continued war between Ukraine and Russia will keep Russia busy.

            • 2 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              just abruptly dismember the part of Russia inside Ukraine without a warning, if they don't back down blast Putin to bits and offer peace

            • 2 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              there is a point to be made there, but think about the bigger picture and what russia is made of
              if CIA was able to support numerous coups in latin america, I'm sure they could manage to prop up countless separatists in russia and keep the central government busy until someone manages to consolidate power
              which may or may not happen, seeing as there is no clear successor figure in current russian politics

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          They should. All of Russia is a legitimate target.

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        >But the Americans aren't sending F-16s
        Please ignore the eastern european looking folks in the SW being trained in F16s by USAF

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        The Russian bomber force has been destroyed for decades. They number less than 100, have low operational readiness and are in many aspects antiques that only have modest upgrades. Russia is of no threat to the US in conventional war. They haven't been for decades. Turns out losing millions of citizens, state institutions going broke, and all of your drafted Army being the remnants is more destructive than a war. Cheaper too.

  25. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous
    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Based. By including all Americans in an armed and open environment, we can ensure that the citizenry are free and safe. I make sure everyone in my legbutt group get guns and never vote for anti-gun communists.

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      One of these is fake and gay, the other is Murica

  26. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    I don/t feel like attacking Germany. It was, as usual, up to the US to show leadership and Biden failed. We run this planet, mostly, and because of that we get to print money and operate a gigantic military machine to secure our world order. The rest of the civilized industrialized world needs us to show leadership in security issues — that’s just reality, and a burden we have to take on as a part of being the world’s sole superpower and top cop protecting the free trade system. So, NO bitching about Germany being weak and beholden to Russian dirty money. Just deal with it. Send in some M1s we already run a huge logistics network into Ukraine anyway; if we need to rack up a few more hundred billion to settle the alliance’s path to a swifter victory then so be it. Biden’s weakness and senile refusal to take good advice is frustrating, that’s all.

  27. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Sad to see Europeans betray their German brothers and the strongest nation in Europe once again.

    Open your eyes. America wants to send all Leopards to Ukraine. Now Europe has no tanks anymore. Nations need new tanks. Germany can't produce enough tanks in short time. What now? Nations order tanks from the US and Korea.

    This is a plot manufactured by moron & mutt alliance

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      like those have any capacity left:
      >The U.S. Army recently awarded a $1.148 billion contract to General Dynamics Land Systems for 250 M1A2 System Enhancement Program version 3 (SEPv3) Abrams tanks for the Polish army.
      >The Abrams contract was awarded in late July 2022 after Poland formally requested the tanks in July 2021.
      >Delivery of the Abrams tanks is scheduled to begin around January 2025, with production and manufacturing support occurring at several Army depots.

  28. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    The lesson to other countries is to never buy anything from the German arms industry. They are at best an unreliable partner, if not at outright hindrance to other supposed allies security needs. Poland and Spain should go ahead send what Leos they have and either fully commit to switching to American Abrams, or Korean K2's.

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      stop pretending NATO isn't some US-led alliance.
      If US orders Germany to send arms, they will.

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Sorry anon but Russian master-slave dynamic isn't how the world works,no matter how cynically you try to convince yourself so

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          you are delusional if you think Germany would say the same to the US as to Poland. power dynamic is completely different.

  29. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    I mean I wouldn't want the burned out husks of my tanks circulated around the world if I was Germany either.
    Was bad enough seeing the Gepard shit itself against Shahsneeds.

  30. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Wrong, no Leopard 2 from Germany now at the moment and some Ukrainian MOD said they can train on the Leopard 2 in Germany (probably from other countries). Read the news bro

  31. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    germany once again conspires with russia to oppose freedom and democracy, poland is the only true ally of freedom in central europe and together with UK and USA we uphele all that is necessary. germany has never been able to move away from the nazi past after all, also look how they still refuse to pay reparations after their cowardly allience with russia last two times

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >germany has never been able to move away from the nazi past after all
      this shit literally started way earlier, German Empire was instrumental in creation of soviet union and helping the subhuman Bolsheviks into power

  32. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Why don’t you gays post the actual articles instead of Reddit thumbnails?

  33. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    I'm not sure about that
    From what I've gathered Germany doesn't want to send tanks, let's ignore the possible reasons for now. They are under a lot of pressure to do so, so they can't say no. They basically said
    >We'll look into it
    However you have all of the media and many politicians, some of which outright demanding for tanks and putting pressure onto the government.
    I wouldn't rule out Leo's just yet.

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Of course they're going to send them eventually, they're probably just trying to set things up for a Leopard coalition behind the scenes.

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Bribe the fucking Germans. It's all they care about anyway.

      Give them great deals on gasoline.

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      It's a lose lose either way. Either they don't send Leos and get shit on or they say they will send Leos which will result in months long training for the Ukie crews and building up the infrastructure to service and fix the Leos. Which will result in them getting shit on for taking so long / empty promises etc
      Public perception will be bad regardless

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        >building up the infrastructure to service and fix the Leos.

        Why do non-mechanics imagine that support is difficult? Shipping is a solved problem. The end user needs little and rather basic equipment to remove and install components.

        Ukraine is essentially a deployed location. One does not bring factories to FOBs.

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          Germany has a repair hub in Slovakia that they expand every time they send new shit.

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Nahh germany is hopeful they will cut a deal with Russia after the war (they won’t).

  34. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    So what stops Poland from taking in a bunch of Ukrainian tank crews and training them on the Leopard right now?

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Too busy cleaning European toilets

  35. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    america will have to step up and start flying unmarked F16's with our pilots like the soviets did in korea 🙂

  36. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous
  37. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >German government who is still loyal to the Russians attempts to prevent arms from reaching Ukraine

    Shocker.

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Yup. Not a single stazi or ddr/ussr agent went to prison. Big mistake.The greens were rabidly anti nato before unification and were 100% Rusdian controlled, many Euro 'green' parties had their origins in rusdian sponsored anti NATO western nuclear disarmament groups like cnd. Europe needs to be purged of former ussr loyalists and agents, they were traitors tben and thsy and their children are now. We've seen them posting here praising the fucking east german stazi state. Internment for them all.

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        nulla poena sine lege

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      This

      It's pretty obvious that the stasi never left and have groomed and left agents that eventually took power in Germany

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous
  38. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    af is a russian agent. He even had fast track VIP clearance from the stazi and kgb to pass into east Germany back when the Berlin wa was there when he was a marxist student politician.He was always a traitor but his presence NOW is due to layers of agents of influence in the German media, german newspapers and DW are packed with russian agents of influence in deputy editorial positions to ensure the history of men like olaf never gets printed.

  39. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >americans seething about germans not being bloodthirsty enough
    you reap what you sow

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      not tipping the war in Ukraines favor actually will prolong it and spill more Slavic blood

  40. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    The Treaty on the Final Settlement with Respect to Germany was a mistake. Germany shouldn't have been trusted to handle sovereignty.

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UN_Enemy_State_Clause
      >Under article 107 States are allowed to take enforcement action "as a result of" World War II against "any State which during the Second World War has been an enemy of any signatory to the present Charter", while under article 53 regional arrangements directed against the renewal of aggressive policy by a former enemy State aren't required to seek Security Council authorization before taking measures to prevent further aggression.

  41. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >Germany: NOOOO YOU CAN'T SEND LEOPARDS!
    >Everybody who has leopards: we're sending them anyway. Oh, and we're never buying German weapons again.
    How to destroy your MIC: Schnitzel edition.
    The S. Koreans are laughing all the way to the bank.

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      more like Poland ran to press instead of asking Germany.
      now Germany insists to follow the proper process.

  42. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    [...]

    Mmmhmmm hail Odin and all that jazz.

    I'ma laugh when the poles reverse colonize you

  43. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >Germany: We won't send tanks unless other NATO members send tanks
    *Poland sends tanks, as does other nations*
    >Germany: W-w-well those aren't WESTERN tanks so we don't have to send any
    *France sends their AMX tanks*
    >Germany: W-w-w-well those aren't Western MAIN BATTLE TANKS so we don't have to send any
    *UK sends their Western MBTs*
    >Germany: W-w-w-w-w-w-well those aren't American so we don't have to send them! America has to send their first!

    Germany has been compromised. USA is too busy sucking the EU's dick (aka Germany) over Brexit bullshit (because Biden is an angry Irish retard) that they don't want to upset that situation so they're not making it fucking clear that Germany is being cuntish.

    It has been clear since the start Germany has been compromised. The list of cases of Scholz lying or fabricating to prevent sending help is long. The fact that what Germany has promised to send and has actually sent is actually quite low. That their internet defence force (of which there is a very heavy contingent on PrepHole) points to 'EU contributions' to prove they are 'helping' (yeah because getting some money is going to stop a Russia blowing a guys head off lol) the 2nd most.

    Germany is just fucked.

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Your militarism doesn't impress me.
      What's the point of those MBTs?
      What will Ukraine ask next?

      Why isn't Biden flying to Moscow and negotiate peace?

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Shut up gay. Russia needs to be stomped out for the rest of the world. They have shown since the fall of Communism they aren't a normal neighbour and member of the global community. The West just ignored the MANY signs for some reason. From them threatening to nuke the West over fucking anything to the invasions of Georgia and Ukraine.

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          Russia literally said they don't care about Western MBTs and that those will quote "burn like the rest"
          https://www.rt.com/russia/570208-ukraine-tanks-negative-consequences/

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Why are you so brown?

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >delusional bong detected

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Fuck off retard, I'm Irish. That's exactly my point.

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          >I'm Irish
          Same thing, both delusional.

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Reality:
      >Germany: we won't send western tanks unless other nations send [meaningful amounts of] western tanks
      >retards: What if we send like 1 lol then they have to
      Also
      >muh AMX
      That's like saying a bradley is an abrams, anon.

  44. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    But how will Germany stomp the Poland after this whole thing is over if they send all their tanks to be destroyed in Ukraine now?
    Poland can always get more free shit from the US or the UK. Germany doesn’t recieve any aid.

  45. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    I was told that Ukrainians are a race of 200IQ MacGyvers on steroids. Can't they just build their own tanks?

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      You will never have a blonde, white gf, Rajneesh.

  46. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    As obviously a lot of anons do not seem to understand the entire problem, I am taking up the burden of effort posting to shed some light on the problem.
    Let’s start with the strategic/policy dimension:
    For most of the russian leadership, the Cold War has never ended, they perceive themselves to be at war with the west. They also consider Ukraine and control over its territory, population and resources a vital strategic interest. Which is why they have invaded the country, thrown at least 100k people and a significant part of their active military material into the blender that is high intensity conventional war. They are very determined and not going to let go.
    Herein lies the first problem, commonly referred to as escalation. Sending aid to Ukraine in general and tanks in particular feeds their perception of the west trying to destroy them. If they feel threatened enough, there is a significant probability that they are going to escalate the conflict themselves, with nuclear weapons being one of the options. That cannot be taken lightly and even though edgy kids might want to play with that fire, the entire west does not. Because even limited nuclear exchange is highly undesirable. That is one of the reasons, we don’t send them ATACMS for example.
    On the other hand the west has to acknowledge that Russia will likely not stop in Ukraine, so we need to get involved, even if we didn’t care for Ukraine. Balancing those two issues is complicated.
    Sending tanks as a coalition serves a purpose in this dimension. If many countries are on board, escalation by Russia is discouraged.
    Which is why even though Poland really wants tanks to be sent, because they are scared shitless, they want a coalition to send them.

    Military dimension in Ukraine:
    The Ukrainians need material. They are engaged in a war of attrition and burning through a lot of equipment. There is a lot of disinformation going around considering how successful they are trading men and material.
    (1)

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      (cont)
      I am not going to discuss those numbers because ALL numbers we are seeing are guesswork at best or straight up fabricated for propaganda purposes. Fact is that the west wouldn’t even openly be considering sending tanks if it were not necessary. Reason being escalation as discussed above.
      The Ukrainians have stated that they would need about 6 battalion equivalents, roughly 300 tanks, to defeat the invasion. That is obviously a low ball teaser number to get supply started, because if they burn through those, they have an easier time asking for more. One indicator for this being the case is that Ukraine is, at least to public knowledge, operating about 16 batallion equivalents of tanks. That’s roughly 1000 hulls. If they just needed 300 tanks to throw out the Russians, this means that they are either horrendously attritted or are in fact teasing for first shipments. You might argue that western tanks have higher individual combat value than their russian counterparts, but large scale maneuver warfare is more about other factors than the individual vehicles used. There are multiple historical examples for that, we are not going into the details. What they do need though are numbers. And the lowball number of 300 vehicles is not going to cut it. Herein lies a major challenge of deciding which tank the west will be sending. Because we are not talking about 6 batallion equivalents but rather 15-20 until the war is over. That is a significant part of the western tank arsenal and convincing anybody to send those numbers is hard, even if we discount the cost of those tanks. Building supply chains for multiple tank models would be stupid, so it has to be one base model. That leaves us with either Abrams or Leopard2, because those are the only two families with sufficient numbers available. Understandably, the US with their large reserves but basically no new hill production don’t want to throw their reserves into the blender, so Leo2 it is. (2)

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        (cont)
        Supply of existing hulls:
        There are about 2000 Leo2 hulls of different versions and in different states of readiness available in NATO. So even if everybody is on board with sending parts of their fleet, even the teaser shipment would require every coalition member to send 15% of their hulls and those would have to be in working order. Given that military material usually has availability of 70-80% and some of the hulls are in storage, that would mean a significant reduction in operational hulls available to the operators. We are talking about 20-25% capability reduction. That is a huge number. Some members are operating small fleets. For them, sending that many hulls is not viable. Portugal for example operates 37 Leo2s, sending any significant number of tanks is impossible for them without seriously degrading their tank force. That does not only apply to operational capabilities, but also to training new tankers.
        This complicates the issue further, because it means less countries will have to share the burden, degrading their own capabilities even more.
        The next question would be replacement costs. The current market price for a 2A7 is €17mln. For the smaller partners, that’s a lot of money. Replacing company equivalents will come with a pricetag around €220mln give or take. As there are basically no legacy hulls available anymore, replacement will be financially impossible for countries with small budget. Even if large scale production reduces that price by 25-30%, it’s still a hefty price tag. Who is going to pay the bill? It’s not the US, because they will not pay for european tanks.
        So it’s either the EU or the strong economies therein.
        (3)

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          (cont)
          Production:

          Replacement is not available in the next 4 years, because production lines are booked. Current output is at about a hull per week or 50/year. Let’s assume we want to replace the sent hulls in reasonable time, say 4 years. Let’s further assume that we just want to replace 2/3 of the hulls because some are being phased out. That leaves is with 50 additional hulls/ year, or a production increase by 100%. And that would just be for the teaser. If we consider realistic demand, we will need output increased by 200%, even when stretch the timeline substantially.
          There are neither the factories, nor the machines, in most cases even the machines to build those machines or qualified workers available for this project. Just the ramp up time would amount to at least 18 months.
          This involves several hundred companies producing components for the tank. It’s a highly complicated industrial problem and it’s not solvable by just demanding more output.

          Training crews and sustaining the force are another can of worms I am not going to open because it would require another 3-4 posts.
          This alone should make it rather obvious that shittalking anybody makes zero sense because the problem cannot be solved by any one nation or even just a small group of nations. It requires a broad alliance of countries, big effort and a lot of money.

          Thank you for stealing my time.

          Tldr; you morons are retarded children, go back to your shitholes and stop talking about things you do not have any idea of. Fuck you, post guns.

          (4)

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            I live by the kmw factory - they work single shift right now.
            The factory literally closes for the night
            So don't tell me they could not do 3 shifts on rotation - you are either fsb or brown.
            Also, fuck Olaf.
            t. Kraut

            • 2 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              Where would you get the qualified workers for that you brainlet?

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        >Understandably, the US with their large reserves but basically no new hill production don’t want to throw their reserves into the blender, so Leo2 it is.
        There's barely any active production for Leos either. Plus from a shekel perspective if European nations suddenly give away 300-600 leopards that'll leave a big vacuum the Germs are unable to fill. Which means either the US will sweep in with Abrams or the Koreans are going to make a killing. The US indirectly pressuring Germany to send tanks while keeping their surplus Abrams around to corner that new potential market is a power play. At the end this whole thing is about money

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          The US cannot supply sufficient hulls either because they would need to be upgraded to newer standards. Also, all the Leopard operators would prefer the L/55 gun, as they don’t use DU ammo.

          Korean lines are booked, they can’t just shit out additional 300-1000 hills in a 5 year timeframe. It’s the same problem with production.

          [...]
          The Ukraine is already lost. Best thing the west can do right now is to fortify Poland/Romania/Baltics as much as possible and hold the line there.
          The whole Ukraine aid shit is happening only because the likes of Poland and others are seething about their failed economic/territorial expansion eastward which they seemingly hoped for after the end of the Cold War.
          I don’t think that the west should cater to those retards, their delusional ambitions and unrealistic plans.
          Like, seriously if you listen to what some Eastern European members say you can hear this idiotic notion that
          >victory is at hand!!! We just have to push harder!!!
          This only gets more men killed and for what? So that poles have their own satellite states like Belarus and Ukraine and can sell their apples and beer in those countries?
          Give me a break.

          No, they haven’t. They are willing to grind it out and at current casualty rates, industrial output is the bottleneck rather than able bodies. It’s just now the war starts getting expensive. Tanks and planes plus support infrastructure are where the big bucks go. Each batallion equivalent of Leo2 plus support vehicles comes in at roughly a bln plus spares, ammo and training the crews.

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            To add: the US has major military commitments around the globe. The war in Ukraine should have made it obvious that you need sufficient reserves of material for that kind of warfare. Because not every war is GW1 with a major overmatch in C4ISR which is the true reason the coalition gumbastomped Iraq.

            The Europeans are going to have to supply the hulls and pay for replacement. Part of the deal will be that it’s european vehicles only. Hope you bought Rheinmetall shares 12 months ago.

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            This war is a pointless waste of time and resources. Russians will take what they want regardless. NATO should’ve never have never expanded East.
            And don’t give me this
            >muh responsibility
            >we gotta save le people
            bullshit.
            Everybody knows it’s about economic interests of the elites, not some stupid ideology.
            People are dying so that richfags can get richer. Fucking great.

            • 2 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              This war is neither pointless nor are the Russians going to take anything. It might take 3 years and medium to high three digit billions, but Russia will be militarily defeated. It’s a matter of economy and industrial capacity. Russia cannot win a war of attrition against the west, period. Given the resource intensity of modern conventional warfare, they will run out of material before Ukraine runs out of people, given the west keeps supplying Ukraine. The only real threat is monkey man flipping the board in the end, but everybody is trying to convince the people around him that he is indeed the problem and that it’s not about destroying Russia.
              Which is why any type of Neo-Versailles demands would be the biggest political blunder of the 21st century. Even though it would be very much desirable from a strategic standpoint to remove the Russians from eastern Prussia, doing it would likely be a mistake as it would fuel revanchism even more than just beating them in war. The problem is that as casualties mount and large parts of Ukraine get turned into the dark side of the moon, war aims have to escalate to justify to losses.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                It is a pointless waste of money and time.
                No ideology is worth it.

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      (cont)
      I am not going to discuss those numbers because ALL numbers we are seeing are guesswork at best or straight up fabricated for propaganda purposes. Fact is that the west wouldn’t even openly be considering sending tanks if it were not necessary. Reason being escalation as discussed above.
      The Ukrainians have stated that they would need about 6 battalion equivalents, roughly 300 tanks, to defeat the invasion. That is obviously a low ball teaser number to get supply started, because if they burn through those, they have an easier time asking for more. One indicator for this being the case is that Ukraine is, at least to public knowledge, operating about 16 batallion equivalents of tanks. That’s roughly 1000 hulls. If they just needed 300 tanks to throw out the Russians, this means that they are either horrendously attritted or are in fact teasing for first shipments. You might argue that western tanks have higher individual combat value than their russian counterparts, but large scale maneuver warfare is more about other factors than the individual vehicles used. There are multiple historical examples for that, we are not going into the details. What they do need though are numbers. And the lowball number of 300 vehicles is not going to cut it. Herein lies a major challenge of deciding which tank the west will be sending. Because we are not talking about 6 batallion equivalents but rather 15-20 until the war is over. That is a significant part of the western tank arsenal and convincing anybody to send those numbers is hard, even if we discount the cost of those tanks. Building supply chains for multiple tank models would be stupid, so it has to be one base model. That leaves us with either Abrams or Leopard2, because those are the only two families with sufficient numbers available. Understandably, the US with their large reserves but basically no new hill production don’t want to throw their reserves into the blender, so Leo2 it is. (2)

      The Ukraine is already lost. Best thing the west can do right now is to fortify Poland/Romania/Baltics as much as possible and hold the line there.
      The whole Ukraine aid shit is happening only because the likes of Poland and others are seething about their failed economic/territorial expansion eastward which they seemingly hoped for after the end of the Cold War.
      I don’t think that the west should cater to those retards, their delusional ambitions and unrealistic plans.
      Like, seriously if you listen to what some Eastern European members say you can hear this idiotic notion that
      >victory is at hand!!! We just have to push harder!!!
      This only gets more men killed and for what? So that poles have their own satellite states like Belarus and Ukraine and can sell their apples and beer in those countries?
      Give me a break.

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        subtle.

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      (cont)
      I am not going to discuss those numbers because ALL numbers we are seeing are guesswork at best or straight up fabricated for propaganda purposes. Fact is that the west wouldn’t even openly be considering sending tanks if it were not necessary. Reason being escalation as discussed above.
      The Ukrainians have stated that they would need about 6 battalion equivalents, roughly 300 tanks, to defeat the invasion. That is obviously a low ball teaser number to get supply started, because if they burn through those, they have an easier time asking for more. One indicator for this being the case is that Ukraine is, at least to public knowledge, operating about 16 batallion equivalents of tanks. That’s roughly 1000 hulls. If they just needed 300 tanks to throw out the Russians, this means that they are either horrendously attritted or are in fact teasing for first shipments. You might argue that western tanks have higher individual combat value than their russian counterparts, but large scale maneuver warfare is more about other factors than the individual vehicles used. There are multiple historical examples for that, we are not going into the details. What they do need though are numbers. And the lowball number of 300 vehicles is not going to cut it. Herein lies a major challenge of deciding which tank the west will be sending. Because we are not talking about 6 batallion equivalents but rather 15-20 until the war is over. That is a significant part of the western tank arsenal and convincing anybody to send those numbers is hard, even if we discount the cost of those tanks. Building supply chains for multiple tank models would be stupid, so it has to be one base model. That leaves us with either Abrams or Leopard2, because those are the only two families with sufficient numbers available. Understandably, the US with their large reserves but basically no new hill production don’t want to throw their reserves into the blender, so Leo2 it is. (2)

      (cont)
      Supply of existing hulls:
      There are about 2000 Leo2 hulls of different versions and in different states of readiness available in NATO. So even if everybody is on board with sending parts of their fleet, even the teaser shipment would require every coalition member to send 15% of their hulls and those would have to be in working order. Given that military material usually has availability of 70-80% and some of the hulls are in storage, that would mean a significant reduction in operational hulls available to the operators. We are talking about 20-25% capability reduction. That is a huge number. Some members are operating small fleets. For them, sending that many hulls is not viable. Portugal for example operates 37 Leo2s, sending any significant number of tanks is impossible for them without seriously degrading their tank force. That does not only apply to operational capabilities, but also to training new tankers.
      This complicates the issue further, because it means less countries will have to share the burden, degrading their own capabilities even more.
      The next question would be replacement costs. The current market price for a 2A7 is €17mln. For the smaller partners, that’s a lot of money. Replacing company equivalents will come with a pricetag around €220mln give or take. As there are basically no legacy hulls available anymore, replacement will be financially impossible for countries with small budget. Even if large scale production reduces that price by 25-30%, it’s still a hefty price tag. Who is going to pay the bill? It’s not the US, because they will not pay for european tanks.
      So it’s either the EU or the strong economies therein.
      (3)

      (cont)
      Production:

      Replacement is not available in the next 4 years, because production lines are booked. Current output is at about a hull per week or 50/year. Let’s assume we want to replace the sent hulls in reasonable time, say 4 years. Let’s further assume that we just want to replace 2/3 of the hulls because some are being phased out. That leaves is with 50 additional hulls/ year, or a production increase by 100%. And that would just be for the teaser. If we consider realistic demand, we will need output increased by 200%, even when stretch the timeline substantially.
      There are neither the factories, nor the machines, in most cases even the machines to build those machines or qualified workers available for this project. Just the ramp up time would amount to at least 18 months.
      This involves several hundred companies producing components for the tank. It’s a highly complicated industrial problem and it’s not solvable by just demanding more output.

      Training crews and sustaining the force are another can of worms I am not going to open because it would require another 3-4 posts.
      This alone should make it rather obvious that shittalking anybody makes zero sense because the problem cannot be solved by any one nation or even just a small group of nations. It requires a broad alliance of countries, big effort and a lot of money.

      Thank you for stealing my time.

      Tldr; you morons are retarded children, go back to your shitholes and stop talking about things you do not have any idea of. Fuck you, post guns.

      (4)

      didnt read touch grass

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >Russia will likely not stop in Ukraine
      no, they probably will.

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >On the other hand the west has to acknowledge that Russia will likely not stop in Ukraine,
      It's not exactly a choice for Russia, they have no ability to go any further westward even if they win.

      (cont)
      I am not going to discuss those numbers because ALL numbers we are seeing are guesswork at best or straight up fabricated for propaganda purposes. Fact is that the west wouldn’t even openly be considering sending tanks if it were not necessary. Reason being escalation as discussed above.
      The Ukrainians have stated that they would need about 6 battalion equivalents, roughly 300 tanks, to defeat the invasion. That is obviously a low ball teaser number to get supply started, because if they burn through those, they have an easier time asking for more. One indicator for this being the case is that Ukraine is, at least to public knowledge, operating about 16 batallion equivalents of tanks. That’s roughly 1000 hulls. If they just needed 300 tanks to throw out the Russians, this means that they are either horrendously attritted or are in fact teasing for first shipments. You might argue that western tanks have higher individual combat value than their russian counterparts, but large scale maneuver warfare is more about other factors than the individual vehicles used. There are multiple historical examples for that, we are not going into the details. What they do need though are numbers. And the lowball number of 300 vehicles is not going to cut it. Herein lies a major challenge of deciding which tank the west will be sending. Because we are not talking about 6 batallion equivalents but rather 15-20 until the war is over. That is a significant part of the western tank arsenal and convincing anybody to send those numbers is hard, even if we discount the cost of those tanks. Building supply chains for multiple tank models would be stupid, so it has to be one base model. That leaves us with either Abrams or Leopard2, because those are the only two families with sufficient numbers available. Understandably, the US with their large reserves but basically no new hill production don’t want to throw their reserves into the blender, so Leo2 it is. (2)

      >Understandably, the US with their large reserves but basically no new hill production don’t want to throw their reserves into the blender, so Leo2 it is.
      The US hasn't stopped Abrams production completely and can gear up for more anytime.
      Pic related. Just be rich.

      (cont)
      Supply of existing hulls:
      There are about 2000 Leo2 hulls of different versions and in different states of readiness available in NATO. So even if everybody is on board with sending parts of their fleet, even the teaser shipment would require every coalition member to send 15% of their hulls and those would have to be in working order. Given that military material usually has availability of 70-80% and some of the hulls are in storage, that would mean a significant reduction in operational hulls available to the operators. We are talking about 20-25% capability reduction. That is a huge number. Some members are operating small fleets. For them, sending that many hulls is not viable. Portugal for example operates 37 Leo2s, sending any significant number of tanks is impossible for them without seriously degrading their tank force. That does not only apply to operational capabilities, but also to training new tankers.
      This complicates the issue further, because it means less countries will have to share the burden, degrading their own capabilities even more.
      The next question would be replacement costs. The current market price for a 2A7 is €17mln. For the smaller partners, that’s a lot of money. Replacing company equivalents will come with a pricetag around €220mln give or take. As there are basically no legacy hulls available anymore, replacement will be financially impossible for countries with small budget. Even if large scale production reduces that price by 25-30%, it’s still a hefty price tag. Who is going to pay the bill? It’s not the US, because they will not pay for european tanks.
      So it’s either the EU or the strong economies therein.
      (3)

      >As there are basically no legacy hulls available anymore,
      There are still shittons of 2A4s, anon.

      (cont)
      Production:

      Replacement is not available in the next 4 years, because production lines are booked. Current output is at about a hull per week or 50/year. Let’s assume we want to replace the sent hulls in reasonable time, say 4 years. Let’s further assume that we just want to replace 2/3 of the hulls because some are being phased out. That leaves is with 50 additional hulls/ year, or a production increase by 100%. And that would just be for the teaser. If we consider realistic demand, we will need output increased by 200%, even when stretch the timeline substantially.
      There are neither the factories, nor the machines, in most cases even the machines to build those machines or qualified workers available for this project. Just the ramp up time would amount to at least 18 months.
      This involves several hundred companies producing components for the tank. It’s a highly complicated industrial problem and it’s not solvable by just demanding more output.

      Training crews and sustaining the force are another can of worms I am not going to open because it would require another 3-4 posts.
      This alone should make it rather obvious that shittalking anybody makes zero sense because the problem cannot be solved by any one nation or even just a small group of nations. It requires a broad alliance of countries, big effort and a lot of money.

      Thank you for stealing my time.

      Tldr; you morons are retarded children, go back to your shitholes and stop talking about things you do not have any idea of. Fuck you, post guns.

      (4)

      >This alone should make it rather obvious that shittalking anybody makes zero sense because the problem cannot be solved by any one nation or even just a small group of nations. It requires a broad alliance of countries, big effort and a lot of money.
      >It requires a broad alliance of countries, big effort and a lot of money.
      I feel like I heard that before.

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Where are the hulls supposed to come from? Who has how many spare 2A4s and is willing to give them to Ukraine?
        Name sources for 300 2A4s that are operational and can actually be speed by their operators.
        Do you think countries are going to pull 50% of their active fleet to burn the tanks in the steppes?

  47. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous
  48. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Krautshits are desperately trying to prevent the krautshit being exposed as the junk shit it is when it gets dominated by Russian chadware and goes irreparably kaputt after 2km.

  49. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    *de-fund gm*

  50. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    SITUATION: UKRAINE GETTING SOME FAT BBC (BIG BRITISH CHALLENGERS)
    OLAF IS A CVCKOLD
    THIS MESSAGE WAS BROUGHT TO YOU BY THE ANGLO GANG

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >12
      Yawn and/or chuckle (malicious).

  51. 2 weeks ago
    afatoldman

    Could we not send them huge numbers of modernized surplus M60's? Slap some ERA and gun stabilization and fire control systems on them and voilà! The 105mm with modern ammo is more than adequate to deal with surplus Russian tanks and the diesel requires far less fuel than the turbine on the M1.

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Just send abrams and more fuel, since when has a lack of fuel ever been an issue for America overseas?

  52. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Isn't it weird how Germany is all for gibs when it comes to Africans and Arabs but now when whites are defending themselves suddenly we have a problem with supporting them.

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