Because it's big enough to hit hard out of a rifle, and small enough to be manageable in a handgun.
I have a reproduction model 1873 chambered in it. Literally my favorite gun.
What the frick are you going on about? You can already see a 357 magnum here dumbass just go to your lgs and buy a box that's says 357 magnum on it moron.
No one cares. This is /k/ who trieds to regularly argue for battleships, for katanas, etc. All while arguing why the F35 odds the best dumpster fire since sliced bread.
10mm is literally ballistically identical to .3fuddy7 despite the latter having 2gr more case capacity and exclusively being chambered in obosolete Black personfudd six shooters. A G20 holds 15 rounds of 10mm.
PS: Frick ya mudda (the prostitute)
10mm shits all over your obsolete boomer meme, Black personfudd.
>I'm a 16-year-old redditor
Okay I don't know why you felt the need to mention that but this website is 18+ kiddo
>buffalobore website still annoying as sin
that 357 loading is also from a five inch barrel at 1400 fps, it gets 1375fps from a 4 inch barrel, which is the comparable test barrel to the 10mm loading (5 inch) when you account for the chamber
So the most energetic loads they sell for each are only 25fps apart
Within the variation of one round to the next and not enough difference to make a difference, eh?
10mm is literally ballistically identical to .3fuddy7 despite the latter having 2gr more case capacity and exclusively being chambered in obosolete Black personfudd six shooters. A G20 holds 15 rounds of 10mm.
PS: Frick ya mudda (the prostitute)
>Black personfudd
You're trying way too hard. Also >This user is underage
10mm is literally ballistically identical to .3fuddy7 despite the latter having 2gr more case capacity and exclusively being chambered in obosolete Black personfudd six shooters. A G20 holds 15 rounds of 10mm.
>thinking kinetic energy is a wound metric
Why do children and moron sleep thinking this? It has been known and published that kinetic energy is not a wounding factor for 30+ years.
>Kinetic energy being a wounding factor
Wut?
Black person as another anon said, it has been published by ballistic researchers for at least 40 years that kinetic energy is not a wounding metric.
Saying bullet A will be more effective than bullet B based on kinetic energy is asinine.
Force is a better(but not perfect) number to quickly compare separate cartridges, but it has also been known again, for at least 40 years, that with handgun bullets literally the only factor is penetration, then if you can get adequate penetration in the proper place, sure a bigger surface area of the bullet doesn't hurt, but still isn't a huge factor, especially when compared to magazine capacity and how fast you can get accurate follow up shots.
Most this information has been out for longer than most anon have been alive, I don't see why you parrot wierd marketing wank.
Are you serious? Any object with mass impacting another object with mass causes a transfer in energy.
Kinetic energy is the entire basis for why projectile weapons work, period.
A bullet has kinetic energy, and when it impacts a target, kinetic energy is transferred to tissue. It's literally fricking high school physics.
1 year ago
Anonymous
It is well known that the kinetic energy amount transfered by pistol bullets is far under the threshold needed to damage tissue.
Try again.
1 year ago
Anonymous
>pistol bullets don't damage tissue
why am I even (You)ing you?
1 year ago
Anonymous
>I failed basic physics
What do you think happens when a bullet stops in someone?
Handgun bullets stopping in tissue do not cause enough hydrostatic shock to damage tissue. The act of the bullet going through the target itself is what damages tissue, things the bullets actually touch. That's why flat meplat semi-wadcutters are considered to be the most damaging round. It rips and tears instead of spearing through.
Jacketed hollow points do as well, but the reasoning for their creation was because of overpenetration by NYC police department. Penetration and shot placement are the most important factors of stopping a threat with a handgun bullet. A 9mm round passing through 3 inches from someone's heart won't rip the heart to shreds like some people believe. This is also why fmj is illegal for hunting and never recommended, and why hardcast semi-wadcutters are one of the most popular bear defense round.
.22lr and .25 acp carry less energy than a baseball pitched by a 12 year old and will cause zero hydrostatic shock in tissue. I don't care what ballistics gel (basically fat for comparison to human cells) implies. It isn't real tissue.
Start talking about 5.56 or 7.62x39 and yeah, hydrostatic shock exists and bullet tumble will absolutely shred your ass.
1 year ago
Anonymous
You're right but these no experience having morons who can't think for themselves will just post an equation taken out of context and ignore you. Just let them believe their carefully chosen ammo will save them rather than shot placement.
1 year ago
Anonymous
>hydrostatic shock
Kek.
You're right but these no experience having morons who can't think for themselves will just post an equation taken out of context and ignore you. Just let them believe their carefully chosen ammo will save them rather than shot placement.
>who can't think for themselves will just post an equation taken out of context
Not my fault you don't understand basic physics equations and why they're relevant.
1 year ago
Anonymous
Any KE contributes to the permanent wound cavity, just look at gel tests. 9mm and the like don't create massive cavitation, but you can see a wound channel wider than the projectile on entry.
It's also where you see Magnum handguns blowing 9mm and the like out of the water. Modern hollow points are engineered to do 3 things. First, penetrate to the desired depth. Second, create the largest possible wound channel via expansion. Third, dump all of the energy into the target. All of these things assist in incapacitation. Your view that it's only for penetration is myopic.
1 year ago
Anonymous
>gel is now soft tissue
1 year ago
Anonymous
Gel is meant to be an analog for soft tissue, yes. It isn't a perfect replica, but it's close enough to capture all the relevant physics. Generally a permanent cavity in gel has some correspondence to a permanent cavity in flesh.
1 year ago
Anonymous
Well, yeah. What do you think it's mimicking?
1 year ago
Anonymous
gel isn't even 'mimicking' soft tissue anon, it's just supposed to be a consistent and most importantly repeatable medium for testing that's supposed to represent an average density of several tissues.
It doesn't ACTUALLY behave how tissues in the body behave when shot.
1 year ago
Anonymous
The notion that it isn't similar enough to draw meaningful conclusions from is silly though.
1 year ago
Anonymous
>I failed basic physics
What do you think happens when a bullet stops in someone?
>Kinetic energy being a wounding factor
Wut?
Black person as another anon said, it has been published by ballistic researchers for at least 40 years that kinetic energy is not a wounding metric.
Saying bullet A will be more effective than bullet B based on kinetic energy is asinine.
Force is a better(but not perfect) number to quickly compare separate cartridges, but it has also been known again, for at least 40 years, that with handgun bullets literally the only factor is penetration, then if you can get adequate penetration in the proper place, sure a bigger surface area of the bullet doesn't hurt, but still isn't a huge factor, especially when compared to magazine capacity and how fast you can get accurate follow up shots.
Most this information has been out for longer than most anon have been alive, I don't see why you parrot wierd marketing wank.
anyone who’s killed animals with handgun cartridges knows the “ballistics scientists” are spewing complete horseshit
i’ve shot more deer and watched them die than any of them were able to study post mortem Black folk to find out how they were killed
shoot a living animal with your guns
1 year ago
Anonymous
This /k/Black person is talking facts right here. I have taken two deer with my 357 myself and I was frankly very satisfied with its performance. I used a carbine but just check out some 357 hunting vids on youtube where ppl are dropping them with fricking revolvers.
>.357 wheelgun and levergun
manageable in the wheelgun, higher capacity in the lever gun but not as much power as .44 magnum >.44 magnum wheelgun and levergun
less manageable in the wheelgun but hits harder, less capacity in levergun but hits harder >.357 wheelgun and .44 magnum levergun
mixed ammo
being a cowboy is hard
>.357 wheelgun and levergun
manageable in the wheelgun, higher capacity in the lever gun but not as much power as .44 magnum >.44 magnum wheelgun and levergun
less manageable in the wheelgun but hits harder, less capacity in levergun but hits harder >.357 wheelgun and .44 magnum levergun
mixed ammo
being a cowboy is hard
Can't check right now but I'm pretty sure my Marlin 1894 in .44 mag is 8+1 and my Henry Big Boy X in .357 mag is 7+1. It's more about the mag tube length than cartridge length.
Thinking about a lever action for 38/387
Any recommendations?
Budget? American made? Tacticool? Wood or polymer? Threaded? Top or side ejecting? Do you need a side gate?
Budget would be nice, because I see that these things are going for a lot of money, even the budget ones. Seems like a Marlin that's just a few decades old is $1000+ and that's real money for a gun when those dollars are competing against a good bolt action or good quality AK/AR. I'd prefer a moderate size (think white tail) brush rifle that is also fun to shoot as well. Tacticool isn't necessary and I'm not even sure I'd put a scope on it, probably just some nice peep sights or something. The whole field is open though.
>Budget? American made? Tacticool? Wood or polymer? Threaded? Top or side ejecting? Do you need a side gate?
What the frick does it matter autismo, there's only 4 fricking companies who make them >marlin
Unobtanium, $1000 >Henry
$1000 >winchester
$2000 >rossi
Garbage, unobtanium, $600
Is overpen something to actually worry about with .44 mag? Will it blow a hole in someone or are pistol calibers just not big/fast enough to do that? Is .44 special a meme round? Anyone here shoot a 5.5inch redhawk? How do you like it? Tips for CCing it in warm, humid state?
I also posit that .44 Magnum achieves the same thing.
Not really here to fight anyone else.
Been around for ages.
Loved by those who love it, ignored by those who don't.
A good all around cartridge.
> .357 magnum is awesome.
We can agree on that much. I'd personally rather a .41 wheelgun plus levergat, but the expense isn't worth the extra performance (for my personal uses). .357 is Güd Enuff™ for 98% of the same tasks, but offers a lot more flexibility with available market options.
That's ice cold factory .44 magnum loaded down because of recoil. Go look up a buffalo bore chart that shows 1,500 ftlbs from a 6 inch barrel. Any youtube chronograph video will prove it as well.
>I don't wanna look at your apples. > Here, look at my orange.
Nobody cares how dirty your Harry is. If you're gonna piss up super hot bubba loads for your particular unicorn, you need to do the same for everything else. .357 generates anywhere from low 400s up to over 900 ft-lbs depending on how you tweak a cartridge. The chart you're referencing normalized the cartridges for each caliber specifically to compare effect of barrel length, it wasn't comparing how large of a bomb you could detonate in your hand.
Nope. Your only option without drilling your receiver with Rossi is pic rel. I use it on my 92 to hunt with and its been decent. Make sure you locktite everything into place tho. With 357 all your shots are gonna be inside 100 anyway so once I had my zero where I like I just locked everything down and know where to hold. Its been fine and I took 2 deer with it so far.
"357 MAGNUM 7 SHOT" >Knowing your consumer base is moronic enough to need subtitles on their guns
Ruger gays cannot not can't even didn't and still refuse to don't even not be dumb Black folk
I can't believe obsolete revolver fudd shit like .357 or .38 special still exist but we still haven't gotten a modern .30 Luger. Absolutely zero innovation in pistol cartridges over the last 100 years aside from .40 soft and weak (gay and moronic) and 10mm (actually based and valid).
Like what? Seems like you got what you need with either 165gr or 155gr bullets. People just need to reconsider the cartridge even if it's just to feed their 10mm's at a reasonable price.
every .357 mag defence load >opens to ~.60" >penetrates 12-18" BG
Every 9mm defence load >opens to ~.60" >penetrates 12-18" BG
Why would I pay more for .357 mag?
>Why would I pay more for .357 mag?
So you can carry less of it in a less concealable platform that you are going to shoot less accurately.
–––––––––––––––––––––––––––
Boomer "Big Dick 45" McFudd
USMC 1979-1979 (MOS 3381) o7
1978 Chevrolet Camaro --- 185 Purebred American Ponies!!
Hey that is blatantly false.
About 45% of 357 mag over expands, turns to a pancake and gets <10" penetration, another 45% don't open, and ice pick through 30"+
That Ranger shit looks impressive, but they package it in a nickel-plated case. I can work with that strictly as a defense loadout, but what a fricking headache to get harassed over and over at ranges for "steel case."
Not seeing I'd reload 9mm, but sucks to eliminate the option just in case maybe.
The 985 FPS velocity & 317 ft/lbs is surprising. I'd have expected more like 1050-1080 FPS to get those ft/lbs more in the 330/340-ish territory. Maybe it was a needed compromise to keep the PSI under 35,000? And, 4" test barrel seems a bit much. Would have expected more like a 3", especially with the other ballistic numbers.
1 year ago
Anonymous
Shit. Forgot picrel. Even if it's propaganda, it's the "official" propaganda.
1 year ago
Anonymous
>The 985 FPS velocity & 317 ft/lbs is surprising. I'd have expected more like 1050-1080 FPS to get those ft/lbs more in the 330/340-ish territory. Maybe it was a needed compromise
Whoa now let me stop you there. You should really stop looking at the numbers until you understand how they're derived and why you can't "compromise on the ft-lbs".
It's (m.v^2)/450240 if you're working in ft/s and grains. You'll note there's just speed and weight, there is no magical "add more ft-lbs to taste" part.
Objectively false. 9mm gays really should shoot themselves in the head. They won't though, because they know they're more likely to end up a vegetable than dead.
>They won't though, because they know they're more likely to end up a vegetable than dead.
That's only true for Black folk and their peanut sized brains though.
SD sez same expansion with a heavier bullet at the same velocity means more penetration. You're probably comparing 125 gr xtp's to 115 gr 9mm loads, where the metrics will naively be similar in regards to max expansion and penetration depth. However, you have to consider that even in that case the .357 is dumping a ton of energy into a substantially larger permanent wound cavity. 158 or 180 gr loads will have similar expansion with far deeper penetration, and in theory you could design bullets that could expand far more in that weight range while still getting adequate penetration. The real big dick move is to just use Lehigh XD bullets and not rely on a piece of metal getting wider for your wounding. Much less picky conversion of energy to damage there. Point being, 9mm gays really are delusional enough to think the wounding is just as good as .357 lol.
Actually you're not wrong there. It does one very specific thing and does it well, and you're on a hiding to nothing if you try making it do anything else.
Sure it does, fudd. Just like how .22s are lethal out to a mile because it says so on the package and .45 is more powerful than 9mm because muh bigger boolit.
The cool thing about more modern .357 Mag lever actions is that, with a re-loader setup, suppressor, and an action that handles .38 wad cutters, 158gr subsonic loads will murder the ever loving shit out of garden trespassing rodents inside 50y very quietly. Plus you can still zap hogs out to 75-100y with spicy hand loaded 157 or 180gr .357 hollow points.
The drop on my .22 springer at 40y with a 25y zero is ridiculous though, and that's ignoring wind drift. Let's also leave alone how a 20-40gr .22 isn't getting through a shoulder shield either.
>all these morons arguing .357 mag V 10mm not realizing both suck and are no better than any other pistol round
Kek.
But to be fair getting a rifle in .357 mag is pants on head moronic.
>But to be fair getting a rifle in .357 mag is pants on head moronic
why? the guns are fairly light, fun to shoot, and reasonably powerful at close range.
Good .357 mag isn't any cheaper than a .30-30, and a .30-30 is actually a rifle round, with twice the energy, 3x the sectional density.
Don't buy rifles in shitty handgun rounds
Your data is bad. Buffalo bore advertises a 2150 fps 158 gr load, that's 1600 ft-lbs, or on the bottom end of .30-30. I've personally loaded 158 gr at 2000 fps, or 1400 ft-lb. Of course, BB sells a 2150 ft-lb load for 30-30, but last I checked that's not a factor of 2.
>Good .357 mag isn't any cheaper than a .30-30
I disagree there. 158gr Federal JSP .357 is less than $.70 a pop, 158gr JHP are still under $.90, while .30-30 is well over a dollar a round. This is assuming you don't need .30-30 performance, which is obviously a faster and shoits well past 100y.
You're right that it will never be equivalent to a rifle round, but that's okay. It still chases 2000fps with 158gr bullets, 1800fps with 180gr, uses a straight wall cartridge which saves time on case prep, and also shoots a cheaper subsonic round for safely running steel plates at 10y.
Yeah, basic b***h, underloaded, dirty federal JSPs(I have some) are shit and not quality rounds.
Quality V quality, .357 mag is around the same price, or more than .30-30, during the pandemic, good .357 mag was nearly 50% more than .30-30
All depends on your needs. I hunt eastern woods and the farthest deer I ever shot is like 60 yds. I use 357 bc its light, almost no recoil out of a carbine, and quiet enough I don't feel like I need ear plugs. I've even shot a few deer and instead of running they just kinda hunch up and then walk off and keel over dead 10 seconds later bc there is no loud report that freaks them out. Very little meat damage too. Its great if you have the conditions for it. I would not use it beyond 100yds tho, with 75 being kinda a realistic max. I don't even use buffalo bore or any crazy shit just regular 158 grn PMC soft point.
.357 is a fricking meme in current year. .38spl will do any CCW job that needs doing(while having fast follow up shots and less flashbang in your face) and for innawoods anything that starts with a 4 is a better option.
>innawoods anything that starts with a 4 is a better option.
Is that why moose get snuffed with 9mm like miserable hoodrats? Or how, in all bear attack scenarios it was ever used in, the shooter was perfectly fine?
Frick ya mudda
>bullets at typical handgun velocities must physically touch tissue to damage it as there are no remote wounding effects caused by the temporary cavity exceeding the elasticity of human flesh at these velocities >in order to successfully incapacitate a threat via physical damage vital structures must be damaged >only rounds with adequate penetration can reach these vital structures >shot placement and penetration are the only factors that determine the effectiveness of any given handgun round to cause physical damage to vital structures >the only downside to maximizing penetration with bullet selection is over-penetration >if you don't care about overpenetration there is no reason to ever use hollowpoints because they limit penetration in exchange for an increase in surface area which is only a theoretically worthwhile exchange if you know for a FACT that expansion will not limit your penetration to unacceptable levels >round nose bullets are inferior to bullets with square shoulders and flat meplats in their ability to cut tissue >assuming two rounds have equally adequate penetration the better round of the two will be the one you can shoot faster while maintaining accuracy.
Hits count. First hits count most. Carry whatever gun/caliber combo you can make fast accurate hits with. Everything else is marketing bullshit designed to have you paying for overpriced meme ammunition.
357 and 38 were a lot cheaper when I bought it, plus when using 38 through it without a suppressor it's damn near 22 quiet. Kinda makes me want to get it threaded and get a can for it just to have something truly whisper quiet
Yes, I'm glad you can read internet articles and tell me what exists. Would you like to share your 10mm? I would show my Witness P but I sold it off a while ago and don’t have any pics saved. Was an alright gun, save for the trigger that sucked
paper says theyre almost the same with 357 having an extra 100 ftlbs while still being in spec
commercial loaded 10mm is just slightly spicy 40 S&W, medium velocity 357 is naturally already at 580 ftlbs, dating back all the way before 357 even existed with 38/44
bubbas pissin hot 10mm handloads barely reach 700ftlbs and need specific gun setups or revolvers (which negate the point of 10mm)
commercial 357 hits 700 ftlbs out of a 4 inch, bubbas handloads reach higher, even higher with 6/7.5 inch revolvers
My grandfather used to hunt deer with his Winchester levergun in 357 Magnum when he was in a hurry, but loved to stalk them with his registered magnum 8 and 3/4". He was a very well practiced shot though, he usually handed me the 30-30 levergun or Garand when I was with him because they gave me a little breathing room, and "would put hair on my chest". (I was like 8 when we started lol).
I like the theory of 10mm taking the place of .357 magnum for modern guns, but it just can't do the same things for the same guns. I kind of lust after the Smith 610s as the next generation of high power carriable revolvers that can take a cheap training caliber for plinking, but there are so many stories of bullets unseating from the cases in the cylinder due to recoil. The bullets just don't seem to be designed for that.
I literally explained it in my post. They aren't designed for use in the same sort of revolvers and lever action rifles and they cause weird failures in those guns. If not for those failures it could be a great idea, but I don't see 10mm and .40 manufacturers going out of their way to try to make their ammo better for revolvers.
Because it's big enough to hit hard out of a rifle, and small enough to be manageable in a handgun.
I have a reproduction model 1873 chambered in it. Literally my favorite gun.
This is perfect. A round that can be used in either, it makes your bug out loadout easier to manage.
357-chan is a smol girl that has a big personality and bigger punch
cant wait to kill myself so i can finally meet her in my isekai
>model 1873
will you have a nice day with a 357? is that what determines what isekai you go to, the method of death?
just to be sure im gonna stick a couple rounds up my butt first too
Obviously
Is there any quality rule 34 of .357 Magnum Chan?
What the frick are you going on about? You can already see a 357 magnum here dumbass just go to your lgs and buy a box that's says 357 magnum on it moron.
but it's obsolete thanks to hot 10mm loadings
Yes, middling .357 loads are obsolete if you cram every last grain of powder into a 10mm.
Whoops, here comes Bubba though.
>but it's obsolete
No one cares. This is /k/ who trieds to regularly argue for battleships, for katanas, etc. All while arguing why the F35 odds the best dumpster fire since sliced bread.
>blown up by a missile from beyond the horizon
another one bites the dust!
>diversity pilot proceeds to crash F-35
Equity for all!
Find me a 10mm loading that's safe for most guns that can hit 899 ft-lbs.
Lol, are you people stupid? 10mm is weaker in every fricking aspect compared to 357.
Not when barrel lengths are below 4 inches.
Why does the barrel have to be so short
It doesn't have to, but when it is, 10mm performs better.
>>is perfect within its niche
>penetrating level II body armor and 1920s car doors
>btfo by 40 S&W, super 38, 10mm
Show me a 10mm that can handle your bubba loads and explain how it is superior to a .357 in every regard.
10mm shits all over your obsolete boomer meme, Black personfudd.
>if I load it to its absolute max I can match weaksauce factory 357 loads
Wow such power
Shut the frick up, dumb fuddBlack person. You know nothing. Top end 10mm loads can literally equal the highest performing bubba .3fuddy7 loads.
My apologies you must have tons of experience with 10mm after owning one, right? I'm just a pleb who's owned two and sold both
>I'm a 16-year-old redditor
Okay I don't know why you felt the need to mention that but this website is 18+ kiddo
t. fudd mcBlack personfudd
>Why yes I am a 16-year-old redditor
Thank you for confirming
>*357 and 10mm fighting
>"oh shit, we woke up grandpa"
>45 colt: "what are you little Black folk babbling about?"
Guys pipe down, don't summon 454 Casullu
I heard my name
HEAVY 357 MAG OUTDOORSMAN
180 gr. Hard Cast LFN-GC (1,400 fps/M.E. 783 ft. lbs.)
180 gr. Jacketed Hollow Point - (1,350 fps/M.E. 728 ft. lbs.)
the jhp is 10mm
357 is still superior homosexual.
>buffalobore website still annoying as sin
that 357 loading is also from a five inch barrel at 1400 fps, it gets 1375fps from a 4 inch barrel, which is the comparable test barrel to the 10mm loading (5 inch) when you account for the chamber
So the most energetic loads they sell for each are only 25fps apart
Within the variation of one round to the next and not enough difference to make a difference, eh?
>Black personfudd
You're trying way too hard. Also
>This user is underage
>all the morons who think 40 piss and methson and 10mememeter hold a candle in max loadings
Must be that common core math.
10mm is literally ballistically identical to .3fuddy7 despite the latter having 2gr more case capacity and exclusively being chambered in obosolete Black personfudd six shooters. A G20 holds 15 rounds of 10mm.
PS: Frick ya mudda (the prostitute)
>factory load user
I blow hot loads in ya mudda.
Good thing we're siblings. God I love living in Alabama.
>500 ftlbs vs 750 ftlbs
irrelevant difference in transonic handgun cartridges with the range of a brick
>thinking kinetic energy is a wound metric
Why do children and moron sleep thinking this? It has been known and published that kinetic energy is not a wounding factor for 30+ years.
>kinetic energy is not a wounding factor
>can't into physics
Please explain how kinetic energy in a bullet causes wounds then.
Are you serious? Any object with mass impacting another object with mass causes a transfer in energy.
Kinetic energy is the entire basis for why projectile weapons work, period.
A bullet has kinetic energy, and when it impacts a target, kinetic energy is transferred to tissue. It's literally fricking high school physics.
It is well known that the kinetic energy amount transfered by pistol bullets is far under the threshold needed to damage tissue.
Try again.
>pistol bullets don't damage tissue
why am I even (You)ing you?
Handgun bullets stopping in tissue do not cause enough hydrostatic shock to damage tissue. The act of the bullet going through the target itself is what damages tissue, things the bullets actually touch. That's why flat meplat semi-wadcutters are considered to be the most damaging round. It rips and tears instead of spearing through.
Jacketed hollow points do as well, but the reasoning for their creation was because of overpenetration by NYC police department. Penetration and shot placement are the most important factors of stopping a threat with a handgun bullet. A 9mm round passing through 3 inches from someone's heart won't rip the heart to shreds like some people believe. This is also why fmj is illegal for hunting and never recommended, and why hardcast semi-wadcutters are one of the most popular bear defense round.
.22lr and .25 acp carry less energy than a baseball pitched by a 12 year old and will cause zero hydrostatic shock in tissue. I don't care what ballistics gel (basically fat for comparison to human cells) implies. It isn't real tissue.
Start talking about 5.56 or 7.62x39 and yeah, hydrostatic shock exists and bullet tumble will absolutely shred your ass.
You're right but these no experience having morons who can't think for themselves will just post an equation taken out of context and ignore you. Just let them believe their carefully chosen ammo will save them rather than shot placement.
>hydrostatic shock
Kek.
>who can't think for themselves will just post an equation taken out of context
Not my fault you don't understand basic physics equations and why they're relevant.
Any KE contributes to the permanent wound cavity, just look at gel tests. 9mm and the like don't create massive cavitation, but you can see a wound channel wider than the projectile on entry.
It's also where you see Magnum handguns blowing 9mm and the like out of the water. Modern hollow points are engineered to do 3 things. First, penetrate to the desired depth. Second, create the largest possible wound channel via expansion. Third, dump all of the energy into the target. All of these things assist in incapacitation. Your view that it's only for penetration is myopic.
>gel is now soft tissue
Gel is meant to be an analog for soft tissue, yes. It isn't a perfect replica, but it's close enough to capture all the relevant physics. Generally a permanent cavity in gel has some correspondence to a permanent cavity in flesh.
Well, yeah. What do you think it's mimicking?
gel isn't even 'mimicking' soft tissue anon, it's just supposed to be a consistent and most importantly repeatable medium for testing that's supposed to represent an average density of several tissues.
It doesn't ACTUALLY behave how tissues in the body behave when shot.
The notion that it isn't similar enough to draw meaningful conclusions from is silly though.
>I failed basic physics
What do you think happens when a bullet stops in someone?
>Kinetic energy being a wounding factor
Wut?
Black person as another anon said, it has been published by ballistic researchers for at least 40 years that kinetic energy is not a wounding metric.
Saying bullet A will be more effective than bullet B based on kinetic energy is asinine.
Force is a better(but not perfect) number to quickly compare separate cartridges, but it has also been known again, for at least 40 years, that with handgun bullets literally the only factor is penetration, then if you can get adequate penetration in the proper place, sure a bigger surface area of the bullet doesn't hurt, but still isn't a huge factor, especially when compared to magazine capacity and how fast you can get accurate follow up shots.
Most this information has been out for longer than most anon have been alive, I don't see why you parrot wierd marketing wank.
>Force is a better(but not perfect) number to quickly compare separate cartridges
Force is the second time derivative of kinetic energy.
No, it is essentially momentum, not based off energy, since it is directly mass x acceleration
Holy frick, anon.
KE = 1/2*m*(v^2)
d/dt(1/2*m*(v^2))=mv
d/dt(mv)=ma
Stopping power is all that matters moron.
Which is why everyone has settled on .25 ACP FMJ for self-defense... wait
.25 ACP has a small frontal area and low force values, tardo.
Nothing to do with kinetic energy.
then explain why 9mm is more popular than .380
anyone who’s killed animals with handgun cartridges knows the “ballistics scientists” are spewing complete horseshit
i’ve shot more deer and watched them die than any of them were able to study post mortem Black folk to find out how they were killed
shoot a living animal with your guns
This /k/Black person is talking facts right here. I have taken two deer with my 357 myself and I was frankly very satisfied with its performance. I used a carbine but just check out some 357 hunting vids on youtube where ppl are dropping them with fricking revolvers.
i like .357
44bros.......
Sorry, I'm a .454chad now
They don't make single action revolvers or lever actions in 10mm so I don't care
>.357 wheelgun and levergun
manageable in the wheelgun, higher capacity in the lever gun but not as much power as .44 magnum
>.44 magnum wheelgun and levergun
less manageable in the wheelgun but hits harder, less capacity in levergun but hits harder
>.357 wheelgun and .44 magnum levergun
mixed ammo
being a cowboy is hard
Don’t 357 and 44 have basically
identical lengths? Should be the same capacity in a tube magazine lever gun.
Can't check right now but I'm pretty sure my Marlin 1894 in .44 mag is 8+1 and my Henry Big Boy X in .357 mag is 7+1. It's more about the mag tube length than cartridge length.
Budget? American made? Tacticool? Wood or polymer? Threaded? Top or side ejecting? Do you need a side gate?
Budget would be nice, because I see that these things are going for a lot of money, even the budget ones. Seems like a Marlin that's just a few decades old is $1000+ and that's real money for a gun when those dollars are competing against a good bolt action or good quality AK/AR. I'd prefer a moderate size (think white tail) brush rifle that is also fun to shoot as well. Tacticool isn't necessary and I'm not even sure I'd put a scope on it, probably just some nice peep sights or something. The whole field is open though.
>Budget? American made? Tacticool? Wood or polymer? Threaded? Top or side ejecting? Do you need a side gate?
What the frick does it matter autismo, there's only 4 fricking companies who make them
>marlin
Unobtanium, $1000
>Henry
$1000
>winchester
$2000
>rossi
Garbage, unobtanium, $600
Mirokuchads stay winnin'
>calling me autistic while knowing that much about the specific price ranges of all lever action manufacturers
you are autistic too
Is overpen something to actually worry about with .44 mag? Will it blow a hole in someone or are pistol calibers just not big/fast enough to do that? Is .44 special a meme round? Anyone here shoot a 5.5inch redhawk? How do you like it? Tips for CCing it in warm, humid state?
Based and correct.
.357 magnum is awesome.
I also posit that .44 Magnum achieves the same thing.
Not really here to fight anyone else.
Been around for ages.
Loved by those who love it, ignored by those who don't.
A good all around cartridge.
.44 mag is a meme. .41 mag is the Real Deal.
> .357 magnum is awesome.
We can agree on that much. I'd personally rather a .41 wheelgun plus levergat, but the expense isn't worth the extra performance (for my personal uses). .357 is Güd Enuff™ for 98% of the same tasks, but offers a lot more flexibility with available market options.
That's ice cold factory .44 magnum loaded down because of recoil. Go look up a buffalo bore chart that shows 1,500 ftlbs from a 6 inch barrel. Any youtube chronograph video will prove it as well.
>I don't wanna look at your apples.
> Here, look at my orange.
Nobody cares how dirty your Harry is. If you're gonna piss up super hot bubba loads for your particular unicorn, you need to do the same for everything else. .357 generates anywhere from low 400s up to over 900 ft-lbs depending on how you tweak a cartridge. The chart you're referencing normalized the cartridges for each caliber specifically to compare effect of barrel length, it wasn't comparing how large of a bomb you could detonate in your hand.
Thinking about a lever action for 38/387
Any recommendations?
I have the Rossi R92 in stainless steel and a 20” barrel.
Obscenely fun carbine. Good to 100 yard torso shots.
Can be finicky about what ammo it likes,
Can’t beat the deal for $600.
Do the Rossi's now have their tangs drilled for sights like the Winchester '92s, or do you still have to get them drilled and tapped for a peep sight?
Nope. Your only option without drilling your receiver with Rossi is pic rel. I use it on my 92 to hunt with and its been decent. Make sure you locktite everything into place tho. With 357 all your shots are gonna be inside 100 anyway so once I had my zero where I like I just locked everything down and know where to hold. Its been fine and I took 2 deer with it so far.
Good carbine cartridge shit cc cartridge imo
Because it's a magnum centerfire caliber.
Name one that isn't awesome?
Okay but what do max loadings on these cartridges accomplish? you still end up being the yapping chihuahuas of the magnum world
Dunk on all other non- magnum calibers.
It just works.
I used to only really like smith revolvers but ruger's gp100s are starting to really grow on me
Same. I want the snubby GP100 now.
I'm really happy with my gp100. Got a decent deal on it too.
Not worth the asking price tho. I see them going for 700 by me and thats before taxes and transfer fees. I wouldn't pay that.
Smith and wesson is cool I want that overpriced beretta revolver tho
>686+ with wood grips
Very nice
Fellas i just think 7 shots (or 5) in a wheelgun is not right.
"357 MAGNUM 7 SHOT"
>Knowing your consumer base is moronic enough to need subtitles on their guns
Ruger gays cannot not can't even didn't and still refuse to don't even not be dumb Black folk
Uh oh, anon.
Popular in AUSgay land due to lever actions being the "last assault rifle" ausBlack folk can get on their (loicense)
>expensive
>outperformed by even 9mm
>limited capacity in handguns chambered in it
Kek, cuck round
>"Merely pretending to be moronic."
He's actually right that 9mm outperforms .357. Doesn't matter if 9mm is around 40% weaker when I can carry 3 times as much of it at any given time.
What's your definition of weaker?
I can't believe obsolete revolver fudd shit like .357 or .38 special still exist but we still haven't gotten a modern .30 Luger. Absolutely zero innovation in pistol cartridges over the last 100 years aside from .40 soft and weak (gay and moronic) and 10mm (actually based and valid).
I actually think .40 S&W can make a comeback with some tweaking with optimal bullet grain and powder loads.
Like what? Seems like you got what you need with either 165gr or 155gr bullets. People just need to reconsider the cartridge even if it's just to feed their 10mm's at a reasonable price.
Why bother, though? 10mm can do anything .40 can and more, and there's zero difference in capacity.
How about getting. 40S&W up to 10mm performance so that I don't have to deal with the oal of 10meme?
.357 Sig exists. Also, what does the OAL matter? What matters more is the diameter of the case, as it affects the magazine capacity.
it was 762 tokarev
Federal just dropped yet another 8mm shitpost or a round, it will die in a year or two
every .357 mag defence load
>opens to ~.60"
>penetrates 12-18" BG
Every 9mm defence load
>opens to ~.60"
>penetrates 12-18" BG
Why would I pay more for .357 mag?
>Why would I pay more for .357 mag?
So you can carry less of it in a less concealable platform that you are going to shoot less accurately.
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Hey that is blatantly false.
About 45% of 357 mag over expands, turns to a pancake and gets <10" penetration, another 45% don't open, and ice pick through 30"+
Why are you describing 9mm though?
>9mm
115 gr pancakes
124 just works
147gr can't into expansion velocity and icepicks
Are you trying to be a moron?
That Ranger shit looks impressive, but they package it in a nickel-plated case. I can work with that strictly as a defense loadout, but what a fricking headache to get harassed over and over at ranges for "steel case."
Not seeing I'd reload 9mm, but sucks to eliminate the option just in case maybe.
The 985 FPS velocity & 317 ft/lbs is surprising. I'd have expected more like 1050-1080 FPS to get those ft/lbs more in the 330/340-ish territory. Maybe it was a needed compromise to keep the PSI under 35,000? And, 4" test barrel seems a bit much. Would have expected more like a 3", especially with the other ballistic numbers.
Shit. Forgot picrel. Even if it's propaganda, it's the "official" propaganda.
>The 985 FPS velocity & 317 ft/lbs is surprising. I'd have expected more like 1050-1080 FPS to get those ft/lbs more in the 330/340-ish territory. Maybe it was a needed compromise
Whoa now let me stop you there. You should really stop looking at the numbers until you understand how they're derived and why you can't "compromise on the ft-lbs".
It's (m.v^2)/450240 if you're working in ft/s and grains. You'll note there's just speed and weight, there is no magical "add more ft-lbs to taste" part.
Thank you. That was helpful.
Actual 9mm
>barely expands
>barely penetrates
Meanwhile
.45 acp
>Expands to .70
>Penetrates to 14-18
.45 chads win again.
Black person 9mm HST expands and penetrates deeper than any .45 AARP
9mm hst is a bad round. Stop coping
Objectively false. 9mm gays really should shoot themselves in the head. They won't though, because they know they're more likely to end up a vegetable than dead.
>They won't though, because they know they're more likely to end up a vegetable than dead.
That's only true for Black folk and their peanut sized brains though.
How is it false?
Are you just cope posting?
SD sez same expansion with a heavier bullet at the same velocity means more penetration. You're probably comparing 125 gr xtp's to 115 gr 9mm loads, where the metrics will naively be similar in regards to max expansion and penetration depth. However, you have to consider that even in that case the .357 is dumping a ton of energy into a substantially larger permanent wound cavity. 158 or 180 gr loads will have similar expansion with far deeper penetration, and in theory you could design bullets that could expand far more in that weight range while still getting adequate penetration. The real big dick move is to just use Lehigh XD bullets and not rely on a piece of metal getting wider for your wounding. Much less picky conversion of energy to damage there. Point being, 9mm gays really are delusional enough to think the wounding is just as good as .357 lol.
That's not .357 sig...
Actually you're not wrong there. It does one very specific thing and does it well, and you're on a hiding to nothing if you try making it do anything else.
what's up with crimp(?) in the middle ?
Fudd shit to prevent "muh backslide" in reloaded cases.
Why is that fuddshit when it actually happens in lever actions?
Sure it does, fudd. Just like how .22s are lethal out to a mile because it says so on the package and .45 is more powerful than 9mm because muh bigger boolit.
Those are all true. 22 is dangerous at a surprisingly long range and 45 is more deadly than 9mm
The cool thing about more modern .357 Mag lever actions is that, with a re-loader setup, suppressor, and an action that handles .38 wad cutters, 158gr subsonic loads will murder the ever loving shit out of garden trespassing rodents inside 50y very quietly. Plus you can still zap hogs out to 75-100y with spicy hand loaded 157 or 180gr .357 hollow points.
so will any 22 caliber airgun
The drop on my .22 springer at 40y with a 25y zero is ridiculous though, and that's ignoring wind drift. Let's also leave alone how a 20-40gr .22 isn't getting through a shoulder shield either.
Get a 45-70, you can get a lever gun and a matching derringer
>not getting a BFR un 45-70
do YOU own a 45-70?
I do in a marlin lever, just need a Derringer. I also want a new marlin 45-70 with the threaded barrel.
357 sig.
>all these morons arguing .357 mag V 10mm not realizing both suck and are no better than any other pistol round
Kek.
But to be fair getting a rifle in .357 mag is pants on head moronic.
>haha cartridge discussions are moot to me because i dont even own guns haha xdd
Ebic le strawman, I bow to your logic king.
>I’m ignorant
>……and proud of it too!
You must be from texas
Can't be, he called .357 lever guns moronic.
>But to be fair getting a rifle in .357 mag is pants on head moronic
why? the guns are fairly light, fun to shoot, and reasonably powerful at close range.
Good .357 mag isn't any cheaper than a .30-30, and a .30-30 is actually a rifle round, with twice the energy, 3x the sectional density.
Don't buy rifles in shitty handgun rounds
why are you reading the pistol barrel energy for 357 and rifle barrel energy for .30-30?
I'm using .357 rifle velocity for the energy, tard.
Your data is bad. Buffalo bore advertises a 2150 fps 158 gr load, that's 1600 ft-lbs, or on the bottom end of .30-30. I've personally loaded 158 gr at 2000 fps, or 1400 ft-lb. Of course, BB sells a 2150 ft-lb load for 30-30, but last I checked that's not a factor of 2.
>Good .357 mag isn't any cheaper than a .30-30
I disagree there. 158gr Federal JSP .357 is less than $.70 a pop, 158gr JHP are still under $.90, while .30-30 is well over a dollar a round. This is assuming you don't need .30-30 performance, which is obviously a faster and shoits well past 100y.
You're right that it will never be equivalent to a rifle round, but that's okay. It still chases 2000fps with 158gr bullets, 1800fps with 180gr, uses a straight wall cartridge which saves time on case prep, and also shoots a cheaper subsonic round for safely running steel plates at 10y.
Yeah, basic b***h, underloaded, dirty federal JSPs(I have some) are shit and not quality rounds.
Quality V quality, .357 mag is around the same price, or more than .30-30, during the pandemic, good .357 mag was nearly 50% more than .30-30
All depends on your needs. I hunt eastern woods and the farthest deer I ever shot is like 60 yds. I use 357 bc its light, almost no recoil out of a carbine, and quiet enough I don't feel like I need ear plugs. I've even shot a few deer and instead of running they just kinda hunch up and then walk off and keel over dead 10 seconds later bc there is no loud report that freaks them out. Very little meat damage too. Its great if you have the conditions for it. I would not use it beyond 100yds tho, with 75 being kinda a realistic max. I don't even use buffalo bore or any crazy shit just regular 158 grn PMC soft point.
>But to be fair getting a rifle in .357 mag is pants on head moronic.
I have one in .327 Federal, because I frickin' wanted it.
t. Black person Rich
10mm Henry when?
.357 mag is love
.357 mag is life
.357 is a fricking meme in current year. .38spl will do any CCW job that needs doing(while having fast follow up shots and less flashbang in your face) and for innawoods anything that starts with a 4 is a better option.
>innawoods anything that starts with a 4 is a better option.
Is that why moose get snuffed with 9mm like miserable hoodrats? Or how, in all bear attack scenarios it was ever used in, the shooter was perfectly fine?
Frick ya mudda
>bullets at typical handgun velocities must physically touch tissue to damage it as there are no remote wounding effects caused by the temporary cavity exceeding the elasticity of human flesh at these velocities
>in order to successfully incapacitate a threat via physical damage vital structures must be damaged
>only rounds with adequate penetration can reach these vital structures
>shot placement and penetration are the only factors that determine the effectiveness of any given handgun round to cause physical damage to vital structures
>the only downside to maximizing penetration with bullet selection is over-penetration
>if you don't care about overpenetration there is no reason to ever use hollowpoints because they limit penetration in exchange for an increase in surface area which is only a theoretically worthwhile exchange if you know for a FACT that expansion will not limit your penetration to unacceptable levels
>round nose bullets are inferior to bullets with square shoulders and flat meplats in their ability to cut tissue
>assuming two rounds have equally adequate penetration the better round of the two will be the one you can shoot faster while maintaining accuracy.
Hits count. First hits count most. Carry whatever gun/caliber combo you can make fast accurate hits with. Everything else is marketing bullshit designed to have you paying for overpriced meme ammunition.
>all these 357 owners posting their guns
>no 10mms posted
Interesting, they cite chart after chart but can never give a personal account
Why not just get a .44 mag lever gun?
357 and 38 were a lot cheaper when I bought it, plus when using 38 through it without a suppressor it's damn near 22 quiet. Kinda makes me want to get it threaded and get a can for it just to have something truly whisper quiet
Yes, I'm glad you can read internet articles and tell me what exists. Would you like to share your 10mm? I would show my Witness P but I sold it off a while ago and don’t have any pics saved. Was an alright gun, save for the trigger that sucked
>357
>revolvers, deagles, fudd tax lever actions
>10mm
>revolvers, glocks, 1911s, nig rigged USPs, Mp5/10s
and you have one of those to post I take it? no? so his point still stands and you're quoting on paper benefits and not experience with the guns.
paper says theyre almost the same with 357 having an extra 100 ftlbs while still being in spec
commercial loaded 10mm is just slightly spicy 40 S&W, medium velocity 357 is naturally already at 580 ftlbs, dating back all the way before 357 even existed with 38/44
bubbas pissin hot 10mm handloads barely reach 700ftlbs and need specific gun setups or revolvers (which negate the point of 10mm)
commercial 357 hits 700 ftlbs out of a 4 inch, bubbas handloads reach higher, even higher with 6/7.5 inch revolvers
Black person
My grandfather used to hunt deer with his Winchester levergun in 357 Magnum when he was in a hurry, but loved to stalk them with his registered magnum 8 and 3/4". He was a very well practiced shot though, he usually handed me the 30-30 levergun or Garand when I was with him because they gave me a little breathing room, and "would put hair on my chest". (I was like 8 when we started lol).
.30-06 at 8 years old is pretty damn rough. I'm also impressed you could hold that rifle steady enough for an offhand shot at that age.
The way it's interchangeable with 38spl is like God himself designed the round. I love me some 357.
I want want a carbine in .357 like an m1 or something
Can you imagine what 20 rounds of 125 grain .357 mag would do to someone at close range?
.38 special is better out of small barrels commonly found on most revolvers.
Oh, look! Look, everybody! A real live brane scientist has entered the thread!
.357 Sig chads understand that all that matters is a 9mm round at the Doctorate level
I like the theory of 10mm taking the place of .357 magnum for modern guns, but it just can't do the same things for the same guns. I kind of lust after the Smith 610s as the next generation of high power carriable revolvers that can take a cheap training caliber for plinking, but there are so many stories of bullets unseating from the cases in the cylinder due to recoil. The bullets just don't seem to be designed for that.
what same things can’t it do in the same guns?
I literally explained it in my post. They aren't designed for use in the same sort of revolvers and lever action rifles and they cause weird failures in those guns. If not for those failures it could be a great idea, but I don't see 10mm and .40 manufacturers going out of their way to try to make their ammo better for revolvers.
oh i thought you meant the same raison detere so to speak not specifically those actions
antiquated actions are certainly charming