There are enough rifles in US civilian hands shooting 5.45 that it will always have some legacy support, but it's dead enough that unless you find a stupid deal on a boomer selling some sealed cans of 7N6 you will be paying through the nose whenever you get a chance to buy it at all. It doesn't really do anything that 5.56 doesn't and it wasn't around long enough to have been adopted widely outside the Slavosphere before the USSR collapsed and everyone who might have been interested either stuck with 7.62x39mm or looked elsewhere.
If you really want an AK-74 for the STALKER, Soviet-Afghan or Chechen Wars feels then by all means buy one (ideally secondhand for a good price if you can) but the cost of stocking a good supply of ammo is going to make it a bad choice as your primary go-to-hell rifle. Get a 7.62x39mm, 5.56x45mm or 7.62x51mm rifle for that role.
You’ve pretty much covered all of it. If you’re an AK fanatic like me then you need something in 5.45 and will keep shooting it. I’ve been gobbling up all the 5.45 I can find under retail price for the past couple years. It’s been easy enough to find it for 28-40cpr. That said it’s still a niche caliber and I shoot more 7.62x39 and 5.56 than 5.45. I wouldn’t suggest anybody to bother with 5.45 unless they have to own a 74.
Even 7.62x39 seems to be a dying caliber the way it seems to be going.
In actuality neither round has to decline because Russia wasn't and isn't the only ones making ammo for them. Importers seem to be lazy or what, because 5.45x39mm is made in a bunch of states including Romania, Moldova, Georgia and Kazakhstan which all seem like viable places to buy from. What's stopping them??
People forget. He executive ordered away aks and ak accesories, called it a sanction lol but he still left a ton of their imports alone. 7n6 was like 6cpr baka. Fricking b***h tried to ban m855. 5.45 never really recovered and its even worse now. Until palmetto starts pumping that round out its on life support.
>That time smith and wesson put out an M&P15 in 5.45
We we're so close to having moronic ass caliber combinations and cheap as dog shit ammo but no the world has to go get gay.
homie get a job and better your situation if you’re getting suicidal because of cheap ammo lmao, get a trade and live frugally and you’ll never be able to outshoot your money unless you get into some meme caliber
7n6 was never that cheap. It was about 12c/round for surplus with corrosive primers. Still a great deal if you don't mind the required cleaning after every range trip. 7.62x25mm surplus used to cost about 8c/round in 2010 and is as cheap as I remember surplus going, although I've seen pictures of 7.62x54r for about 8c/round from the early 2000s but there have been 2 different events with significant inflation since then.
7.62x39 will be around for at least the next 100 years. I would bet my left nut that a century from today, at least Black folk in shitty third-world South American, African, and Asian countries will be using AKMs, while the rest of the world is using whatever. There will still be a demand for the ammo.
5.45 is entirely different matter, because it's nowhere near as ubiquitous or prolific.
They don't care about Siberia beyond asserting to the world that it belongs to them. It's not so much balkanized, as it is they just leave them to do their thing.
no, its gonna be a niche caliber and will likely just be relegated to a niche and wont be any breakout star, 762x39 aint gonna go anywhere already places stepping in to cover the russian import ban so thats not a concern, and if you want you can just nick a 556 ak and call it good enough
In a recent video MAC did a tour of the AAC (owned by PSA) ammunition factory. In it he mentions that they have plans to start a steel cased line featuring 7.62x39 and 5.45x39. Fingers crossed, there is hope yet.
>only 5 listings on Ammoseek >2 are new stuff from Russia, with imports being entirely banned in less than 6 months assuming companies haven't already hit their import limits and Russia is still willing to export it at this point >1 is old stock 7n6 that was imported before it was banned in 2014 >2 are old stock Ukrainian made Wolf that was imported before the factory was seized by the LNR and likely destroyed in 2014 >no news at Shot Show 2023 about PSA's steel cased ammo that was supposed to be hitting the market this year, meaning there's a good chance that it could follow their MP5 as vaporware that will never materialize
For comparison, there are currently 6 listings on ammoseek for 8mm French Ordnance, with only one model of gun made in that caliber and the last one rolling off the assembly line 99 years ago, and all of those listings are current manufactured ammo from a country that companies can still import from for the foreseeable future.
Best reply so far, thanks. Looks like 5.45 will be mostly a legacy cartridge in the US, unless there's some fundamental shift in our relationship with Russia.
Wow that video isn't confidence inspiring. Tim was talking up how dividing different stages of production into different machines was better because the if one stage went down the rest would stay running, but having case forming and annealing steps being split into several different machines is almost certainly just going to end up taking up tons more floor space and require tons of human intervention that would be unnecessary at other factories. Not to mention that if one stage goes down everything still grinds to a halt once you run out of partially competed product for a human to bring to the next stage.
I'd also like to note that at no point in the video are machines for steel cased ammo shown or does anyone from PSA say anything about steel cased ammo (or anything at all). The video is just Tim and his buddy talking over video footage of parts of the tour. So the "soon" could be anything from a PSA representative telling them it's coming next month, to a PSA representative telling them he hasn't got a clue what the company is doing there and Tim just repeating PSA's old timeline from late 2021/early 2022 for when they'd like to have it out.
>only 5 listings on Ammoseek >2 are new stuff from Russia, with imports being entirely banned in less than 6 months assuming companies haven't already hit their import limits and Russia is still willing to export it at this point >1 is old stock 7n6 that was imported before it was banned in 2014 >2 are old stock Ukrainian made Wolf that was imported before the factory was seized by the LNR and likely destroyed in 2014 >no news at Shot Show 2023 about PSA's steel cased ammo that was supposed to be hitting the market this year, meaning there's a good chance that it could follow their MP5 as vaporware that will never materialize
For comparison, there are currently 6 listings on ammoseek for 8mm French Ordnance, with only one model of gun made in that caliber and the last one rolling off the assembly line 99 years ago, and all of those listings are current manufactured ammo from a country that companies can still import from for the foreseeable future.
So glad I bought a 106fr and 106ur years ago, everyone thought 5.56 aks were moronic back then. And honestly my 74 is so soft shooting its not even fun.
>Is 5.45 a dead/dying caliber in the US?
Not dead, but will be a niche caliber.
Not worried. By the time I go through my stash I'll need a new barrel. At which point I'll swap the 5.45 barrel for a 5.56 barrel and call it a day.
AK-74 owner here, yes, it's dead for the foreseeable future. Most of the newly manufactured ammo came from Ukraine or Russia, and those supplies are gone both due to the war as well as bans on new Russian imports. military surplus ammo is all gone. This pretty much only leaves Romania for new ammo. There are not many choices for ammo these days and it's a lot more expensive than it used to be, currently 72cpr on ammoseek.
If you ask me, you're much better off going with 5.56 instead if you want the lighter caliber, otherwise 7.62x39 is still *only* 35 cpr.
>Saigas and 7n6 banned in 2014 >Veprs banned in 2017 >Arsenal stops making 5.45's and refuses to make more >Russian commercial 5.45 also going to be banned
5.45 has been six feet under for a long time.
Yes.
No
There are enough rifles in US civilian hands shooting 5.45 that it will always have some legacy support, but it's dead enough that unless you find a stupid deal on a boomer selling some sealed cans of 7N6 you will be paying through the nose whenever you get a chance to buy it at all. It doesn't really do anything that 5.56 doesn't and it wasn't around long enough to have been adopted widely outside the Slavosphere before the USSR collapsed and everyone who might have been interested either stuck with 7.62x39mm or looked elsewhere.
If you really want an AK-74 for the STALKER, Soviet-Afghan or Chechen Wars feels then by all means buy one (ideally secondhand for a good price if you can) but the cost of stocking a good supply of ammo is going to make it a bad choice as your primary go-to-hell rifle. Get a 7.62x39mm, 5.56x45mm or 7.62x51mm rifle for that role.
You’ve pretty much covered all of it. If you’re an AK fanatic like me then you need something in 5.45 and will keep shooting it. I’ve been gobbling up all the 5.45 I can find under retail price for the past couple years. It’s been easy enough to find it for 28-40cpr. That said it’s still a niche caliber and I shoot more 7.62x39 and 5.56 than 5.45. I wouldn’t suggest anybody to bother with 5.45 unless they have to own a 74.
Even 7.62x39 seems to be a dying caliber the way it seems to be going.
In actuality neither round has to decline because Russia wasn't and isn't the only ones making ammo for them. Importers seem to be lazy or what, because 5.45x39mm is made in a bunch of states including Romania, Moldova, Georgia and Kazakhstan which all seem like viable places to buy from. What's stopping them??
The Ukrainians and their allies are buying it.
7n6 imports were banned under Obama and that's like the default loading for 5.45.
People forget. He executive ordered away aks and ak accesories, called it a sanction lol but he still left a ton of their imports alone. 7n6 was like 6cpr baka. Fricking b***h tried to ban m855. 5.45 never really recovered and its even worse now. Until palmetto starts pumping that round out its on life support.
>6cpr
I should just fricking kill myself now, ammo will literally never be that cheap again
>That time smith and wesson put out an M&P15 in 5.45
We we're so close to having moronic ass caliber combinations and cheap as dog shit ammo but no the world has to go get gay.
homie get a job and better your situation if you’re getting suicidal because of cheap ammo lmao, get a trade and live frugally and you’ll never be able to outshoot your money unless you get into some meme caliber
7n6 was never that cheap. It was about 12c/round for surplus with corrosive primers. Still a great deal if you don't mind the required cleaning after every range trip. 7.62x25mm surplus used to cost about 8c/round in 2010 and is as cheap as I remember surplus going, although I've seen pictures of 7.62x54r for about 8c/round from the early 2000s but there have been 2 different events with significant inflation since then.
Ukraine is sucking up ammo, Arsenal stopped importing 7.62x39 to focus on supplying Ukraine recently.
Source? Big if true, as that's where manufacturers started getting steel cased ammo from in response to sanctions on Russia.
There was a thread on the akfiles about it a few months ago, if this thread is up later I'll link it
https://kyivindependent.com/media-bulgaria-may-secretly-send-189-million-worth-of-ammunition-to-ukraine/
That's VMZ, they make rockets and artillery shells, not small arms ammo.
http://vmz.bg/en/%d0%bf%d1%80%d0%be%d0%b4%d1%83%d0%ba%d1%86%d0%b8%d1%8f/
7.62x39 will be around for at least the next 100 years. I would bet my left nut that a century from today, at least Black folk in shitty third-world South American, African, and Asian countries will be using AKMs, while the rest of the world is using whatever. There will still be a demand for the ammo.
5.45 is entirely different matter, because it's nowhere near as ubiquitous or prolific.
Yeah, there's probably a healthy of demand for .303 British from India, Pakistan and the rest of the old colonies
the US is producing x39 though. I dont know if there is a reputable manufacturer for 5.45 though.
Unless a former/current 5.45 using country starts importing the the US its gonna be pretty much dead.
Until the war ends and Russia balkanizes.
Isn't Russia already kinda balkanized?
I heard they practically have zero control over what's east of Moscow with the exception of the bigger cities.
They don't care about Siberia beyond asserting to the world that it belongs to them. It's not so much balkanized, as it is they just leave them to do their thing.
Has there been any news on the PSA 5.45? All I could find was a reddit post that said a 2023 release date
It’s supposedly releasing this summer, but don’t expect decent pricing on it
guaranteed DOA with today's ammo choices and prices
no, its gonna be a niche caliber and will likely just be relegated to a niche and wont be any breakout star, 762x39 aint gonna go anywhere already places stepping in to cover the russian import ban so thats not a concern, and if you want you can just nick a 556 ak and call it good enough
In a recent video MAC did a tour of the AAC (owned by PSA) ammunition factory. In it he mentions that they have plans to start a steel cased line featuring 7.62x39 and 5.45x39. Fingers crossed, there is hope yet.
Here is sgammo prices from 08/2016
God I miss pre-2020 guns and ammo.
Best reply so far, thanks. Looks like 5.45 will be mostly a legacy cartridge in the US, unless there's some fundamental shift in our relationship with Russia.
Top order from 2016, bottom order from 2013
I wish I had a time machine
Wow that video isn't confidence inspiring. Tim was talking up how dividing different stages of production into different machines was better because the if one stage went down the rest would stay running, but having case forming and annealing steps being split into several different machines is almost certainly just going to end up taking up tons more floor space and require tons of human intervention that would be unnecessary at other factories. Not to mention that if one stage goes down everything still grinds to a halt once you run out of partially competed product for a human to bring to the next stage.
I'd also like to note that at no point in the video are machines for steel cased ammo shown or does anyone from PSA say anything about steel cased ammo (or anything at all). The video is just Tim and his buddy talking over video footage of parts of the tour. So the "soon" could be anything from a PSA representative telling them it's coming next month, to a PSA representative telling them he hasn't got a clue what the company is doing there and Tim just repeating PSA's old timeline from late 2021/early 2022 for when they'd like to have it out.
>only 5 listings on Ammoseek
>2 are new stuff from Russia, with imports being entirely banned in less than 6 months assuming companies haven't already hit their import limits and Russia is still willing to export it at this point
>1 is old stock 7n6 that was imported before it was banned in 2014
>2 are old stock Ukrainian made Wolf that was imported before the factory was seized by the LNR and likely destroyed in 2014
>no news at Shot Show 2023 about PSA's steel cased ammo that was supposed to be hitting the market this year, meaning there's a good chance that it could follow their MP5 as vaporware that will never materialize
For comparison, there are currently 6 listings on ammoseek for 8mm French Ordnance, with only one model of gun made in that caliber and the last one rolling off the assembly line 99 years ago, and all of those listings are current manufactured ammo from a country that companies can still import from for the foreseeable future.
So glad I bought a 106fr and 106ur years ago, everyone thought 5.56 aks were moronic back then. And honestly my 74 is so soft shooting its not even fun.
>Is 5.45 a dead/dying caliber in the US?
Not dead, but will be a niche caliber.
Not worried. By the time I go through my stash I'll need a new barrel. At which point I'll swap the 5.45 barrel for a 5.56 barrel and call it a day.
Is there any reason why countries like Romania and Poland won't import 5.45? I know Romania still uses it as its primary cartridge
AK-74 owner here, yes, it's dead for the foreseeable future. Most of the newly manufactured ammo came from Ukraine or Russia, and those supplies are gone both due to the war as well as bans on new Russian imports. military surplus ammo is all gone. This pretty much only leaves Romania for new ammo. There are not many choices for ammo these days and it's a lot more expensive than it used to be, currently 72cpr on ammoseek.
If you ask me, you're much better off going with 5.56 instead if you want the lighter caliber, otherwise 7.62x39 is still *only* 35 cpr.
no one makes the ammo and no one makes Russian spec guns, it's on life support
>Saigas and 7n6 banned in 2014
>Veprs banned in 2017
>Arsenal stops making 5.45's and refuses to make more
>Russian commercial 5.45 also going to be banned
5.45 has been six feet under for a long time.
Why do ak74, particularly the plum ones look so much better then akms or the modern railed shit