afaik a lot of tank kills/disables would come down to lucky shots hitting front plate at funny angles or hitting it in a part that had shitty quality steel
>assuming 30s-40s technology
Light armor armed with autocannons existed and had their uses. They couldn’t duke it out with tanks at all >assuming modern AFVs transported to ww2
They’re a game changer if employed halfway effectively.
That Puma would die the moment the Bradley sneezes on it while it hunts for it at night with thermals. Superior acquisition and superior fire control means if they spot each other simultaneously the Bradley will fire a burst off before the Puma crew even can successfully determine range.
OP is a War Thunder homosexual for calling an IFV a light tank aside: >Thermals means pure rape at night, making Bradley usage at night and at range an uncontested matter along with being able to lay artillery against armored targets, infantry. >25mm sabots fricks up everything at range short of King Tigers through the front, either through piercing their armor or otherwise skullfricking the optics and achieving a mission kill. >Yes that includes the Tiger and Panther through repeated hits for any 80-90mm section combined with variable quality of steel/hardening for late war production. Any weakened zone like the turret ring is prime bait and flank shots are guaranteed at short enough ranges on the Panther's thin sides. >25mm HE will destroy optics of anything it meets all while pulping infantry readily. >TOWs (2, 2B, etc) are pure overkill against any WW2 tank and WILL throw turrets all day long.
Kneel to your >90mm RHAe capable round.
>Be in a Panzer 4 >Suddenly have armor fragments and DU darts passing through the bodies of the crew in all positions >Explodes when ammo stored all over the hull is hit.
>Be in a Panther >Turret crew screaming briefly as the sound of hits ring off >They go silent quickly after >Blood, feces and hot steel smell fills the interior >Nose burning >Final drive grenades anyways when the driver tries to change position
https://i.imgur.com/bg4etXl.jpg
>Be in a King Tiger >Sleeping at night >One of the other King Tigers suddenly throws the turret in a huge explosion in the middle of the night >Fricking get the frick up and open the hatch to see what the frick just happened >"THOOMF THOOMF THOOMF" from the distance >A brief flash of light, immediately order the gunner to traverse the turret >Driver trying to start the engine because fuel is always short because Nazi Germany logistics blew chunks >Gunner cranking the turret away as some dim glow of a bazooka round is wizzing towards the King Tiger >Engine finally cranks over, turret traverses to- >Thrown out of turret a moment after the first explosion overhead while organs liquefy, death is quick for the fortunate
I really hope you're like a high schooler or something because this is the gayest shit I've ever read.
You're mentally ill if you think a 25mm dart will go through a panther frontally.
You're also mentally ill if you think you can "snipe optics" at 1km range.
>Panther >80mm turret face >100mm mantlet (with weakened zones)
Dipshit moment. >Snipe optics
You don't "snipe optics", you dump on target and let dispersion do the work. 1km with modern fire control systems is more than sufficient to aim at regions reliably.
>With 90% velocity to treat it as a non muzzle shot >Repeated hits to the mantlet where 70-80% penetration is readily achievable. >Repeated hits to the turret face >Perforations in mantlet for machine gun, optics, which result in weakened zones.
http://www.longrods.ch/perfcalc.php
Forgot to set the density of DU to be DU. Oh look, more penetration...
1 year ago
Anonymous
Fricking moron.
The Lanz-Odermatt Longrods site gives a figure in LOS thickness, not nominal armour thickness.
94mm @ 60 degrees = 47mm
Panther is 80mm @ 55 degrees = 139mm LOS
1 year ago
Anonymous
>Moving goalposts >"Muh glacis plate" >Not punching through the turret face or cheeks
No shit the hull can frontally resist 25mm APFSDS.
1 year ago
Anonymous
that's hilarious because you or the other moron were insisting it could go through the glacis
1 year ago
Anonymous
Keep trying to move the goalposts homosexual. I see implications of frontal turret rape for
https://i.imgur.com/52rphgG.jpg
>Be in a Panzer 4 >Suddenly have armor fragments and DU darts passing through the bodies of the crew in all positions >Explodes when ammo stored all over the hull is hit.
>Be in a Panther >Turret crew screaming briefly as the sound of hits ring off >They go silent quickly after >Blood, feces and hot steel smell fills the interior >Nose burning >Final drive grenades anyways when the driver tries to change position
and
https://i.imgur.com/B9eSH6h.jpg
OP is a War Thunder homosexual for calling an IFV a light tank aside: >Thermals means pure rape at night, making Bradley usage at night and at range an uncontested matter along with being able to lay artillery against armored targets, infantry. >25mm sabots fricks up everything at range short of King Tigers through the front, either through piercing their armor or otherwise skullfricking the optics and achieving a mission kill. >Yes that includes the Tiger and Panther through repeated hits for any 80-90mm section combined with variable quality of steel/hardening for late war production. Any weakened zone like the turret ring is prime bait and flank shots are guaranteed at short enough ranges on the Panther's thin sides. >25mm HE will destroy optics of anything it meets all while pulping infantry readily. >TOWs (2, 2B, etc) are pure overkill against any WW2 tank and WILL throw turrets all day long.
Kneel to your >90mm RHAe capable round.
calls out repeated hits on the front.
1 year ago
Anonymous
Show me where Black person
1 year ago
Anonymous
They use these formulas for war thunder anyway, you can test the 25mm DU against all the ww2 tanks in the armor analysis mode. The limitations are it doesn't do multiple hits and the german tanks are modeled with ideal quality steel armor.
Basically the tiger and panther are largely immune frontally at 2km, at close range it's borderline, any defective steel or multiple hits likely leads to penetration.
If you're planning on time traveling with your IFV take a cv90 with bofors 40mm or something with a CTA40.
1 year ago
Anonymous
Doesn't WT not model QA issues on any vehicles? It was notoriously rampant on T-34s which resulted in them being frontally penned by shit that can't touch them in-game
1 year ago
Anonymous
They used to way back when with at least the king tiger if memory served. Something like a ~.97 multiplier for the value to reflect the poor quality steel.
1 year ago
Anonymous
T-34 is OP Black person tank in WT, however at least it gets ventilated by Panthers at range, provided the driver hatch and optics dont send the shell to the shadow realm. If it was accurate it'd get overpressured by HE to the UFP.
The Bradley has a modern, western built autocannon mounted to modern, western built stabilisers and aimed using modern, western built optics
It can absolutely target a sensor package from a mere 1km away, that's basically point blank for a modern, western built system.
Depends how many and if they had a logistics train set up for them, and resources stockpiled for them, the ATGMs and NVDs would be very useful, the NVDs (and if applicable, Thermals) would be useful from an operations standpoint even if the bradleys werent used actively, the autocannons less so.
The cannon would not be sufficient to destroy a Tiger or Panther from the front unless they were at close range, at an angle almost perpendicular to the turret face for the panthers A, B and D, or the hull for the Tiger I, and could fire for several seconds. They'd not be able to penetrate a Tiger II or a Panther F unless they shot through the optics/mg ports or jammed the turret ting. They'd be able to easily penetrate the panther from the side from many angles, but would need to be at close range and almost at 90 degrees to the side of the hull of a Tiger I or II in order to penetrate it.
It essentially is a light tank though, its fast and lightly armoured, and is armed with a cannon, and its role is fighting tanks as well as being IFV, hence the decision to add missiles. Although its autocannon is smaller in calibre than many early light tanks, which tended to have 37mm at the smallest, but then again some IFVs have 40mm or 57mm autocannons.
If armed with its DU sabot rounds? Easily. Though the tanks theoretically have enough armor to withstand it, the shit thing about standard rolled steel armor is that it really doesn't like repeat punishments.
A few direct hits would sunder the plate, and the Bradley with its modern fire control system and sensors would be able to fire dozens of rounds before the Panther or Tiger could even locate it
Repeated hits to the same area can and will defeat armor. When the rounds are nearly able to penetrate they compromise a significant area around the damaged section.
In practice the hits won't be that tightly clustered but more than a (few) dozen hits to a foot or so of armor where the penetrators achieve >50% penetration into the armor can certainly weaken the protection.
For reference the 3UBR8s shown in that FEA example which in itself has faults (ex: how closely spaced the rounds are along with the impacts being nonrepresentative of reality) does 60mm or so of penetration. Armor damage is very much real.
>Be in a Panzer 4 >Suddenly have armor fragments and DU darts passing through the bodies of the crew in all positions >Explodes when ammo stored all over the hull is hit.
>Be in a Panther >Turret crew screaming briefly as the sound of hits ring off >They go silent quickly after >Blood, feces and hot steel smell fills the interior >Nose burning >Final drive grenades anyways when the driver tries to change position
>Be in a King Tiger >Sleeping at night >One of the other King Tigers suddenly throws the turret in a huge explosion in the middle of the night >Fricking get the frick up and open the hatch to see what the frick just happened >"THOOMF THOOMF THOOMF" from the distance >A brief flash of light, immediately order the gunner to traverse the turret >Driver trying to start the engine because fuel is always short because Nazi Germany logistics blew chunks >Gunner cranking the turret away as some dim glow of a bazooka round is wizzing towards the King Tiger >Engine finally cranks over, turret traverses to- >Thrown out of turret a moment after the first explosion overhead while organs liquefy, death is quick for the fortunate
Getting your trains strafed by superior air power tends to amplify the suffering a non motorized army experiences. Enjoy living in the barn with your mules, Dennis.
Thanks for posting these anon, up until now I had believed that this light IFV was completely immune to all forms of damage, but now I can clearly see that that is not the case.
>The turret front and rounded gun mantle was made of armor 100 mm thick. The turret front armor was mounted at an angle of 12 degrees. It had a Brinell Hardness rating of 235-276.
>With 90% velocity to treat it as a non muzzle shot >Repeated hits to the mantlet where 70-80% penetration is readily achievable. >Repeated hits to the turret face >Perforations in mantlet for machine gun, optics, which result in weakened zones.
http://www.longrods.ch/perfcalc.php
https://i.imgur.com/MkmkG1n.jpg
Forgot to set the density of DU to be DU. Oh look, more penetration...
>anon thinks point blank penetration is the same at hundreds of meters away
actual moron
Only the prototype P had a thinner and rounded turret front, and the mantlet was 120mm. The Henschel tigers, the production run, had a turret face of 185mm.
>TOW missile
A squadron of Bradleys would be able to wipe out an entire German heavy armoured battalion with zero losses. >No missiles but still have optics
Best scout vehicle of the war, fast with the best optics by leagues, cannon can frick up any light and most medium tanks without too many problems and it of course rapid fire so even if it doesn't kill the tiger outright it's liable to cripple its tracks or gun >No missile or modern optics just fast with an autocannon
It's a very well armed light tank that can carry soldiers. Not a game changer but still a solid vehicle.
>weighs as much as a bradley >25% heavier than a chaffee
pretty sure you're being intentionally obtuse, but spelling it out expliclty anyway: the us used weights and a 50K lb vehicle was not going to be a light tank. m7 started as a light tank, but when its weight increased it was reclassified as a medium
Yes. Because the Bradley will spot the tank first, maneuver faster and get to an advantageous position with low odds of being spotted. If it gets spotted, it can retreat and reposition at speeds the tank crew could hardly fathom.
If you repeat the experiment 1000 times, some Bradleys will be destroyed, but in most cases, the tank crew will not even realize that the gig is up.
Just by attacking at night, it'd be clubbing baby seals >bbbut muh armour penetration
so use that superior accuracy and nightfighting ability to target tracks and engine decks >le elite wehraboo panzer division of 130 Tiger IIs
with 2 TOW missile tubes and 7 reloads each, a Bradley company of 14 tracks would snipe three quarters of that before even needing to rearm.
It would be vulnerable to pretty much everything scarier than an interwar anti-tank rifle (which are more or less comparable to modern .50 BMG). If we're assuming you're transporting a top of the line modern Bradley to frontline Europe in any point of WW2 though its sensors and TOWs would make it one of the most feared tank-hunters in the war; but then again what were you expecting from something built ~75 years later?
you do know 30mm auto cannons existed in ww2 right?
with depleted uranium AP rounds?
25mm APFSDS DU rounds have around the same performance as 75mm M3 APC just under 100mm at point blank.
Extrapolate as you want
afaik a lot of tank kills/disables would come down to lucky shots hitting front plate at funny angles or hitting it in a part that had shitty quality steel
i would reckon 25mm DU would tear ww2 tanks up
>assuming 30s-40s technology
Light armor armed with autocannons existed and had their uses. They couldn’t duke it out with tanks at all
>assuming modern AFVs transported to ww2
They’re a game changer if employed halfway effectively.
>light tank like the Bradley
>Bradley
>tank
OP is a homosexual
its by definition a tank look up the dictionary definition.
It is not.
played too much c&c
It'd get destroyed by pic related.
That Puma would die the moment the Bradley sneezes on it while it hunts for it at night with thermals. Superior acquisition and superior fire control means if they spot each other simultaneously the Bradley will fire a burst off before the Puma crew even can successfully determine range.
I can tell how receded your chin is just by reading this post
my chin receded while reading his post.
A Stug would probably be more likely, but yeah.
OP is a War Thunder homosexual for calling an IFV a light tank aside:
>Thermals means pure rape at night, making Bradley usage at night and at range an uncontested matter along with being able to lay artillery against armored targets, infantry.
>25mm sabots fricks up everything at range short of King Tigers through the front, either through piercing their armor or otherwise skullfricking the optics and achieving a mission kill.
>Yes that includes the Tiger and Panther through repeated hits for any 80-90mm section combined with variable quality of steel/hardening for late war production. Any weakened zone like the turret ring is prime bait and flank shots are guaranteed at short enough ranges on the Panther's thin sides.
>25mm HE will destroy optics of anything it meets all while pulping infantry readily.
>TOWs (2, 2B, etc) are pure overkill against any WW2 tank and WILL throw turrets all day long.
Kneel to your >90mm RHAe capable round.
everything you just wrote is moronic
Proofs, dickweed.
I really hope you're like a high schooler or something because this is the gayest shit I've ever read.
You're mentally ill if you think a 25mm dart will go through a panther frontally.
You're also mentally ill if you think you can "snipe optics" at 1km range.
>Panther
>80mm turret face
>100mm mantlet (with weakened zones)
Dipshit moment.
>Snipe optics
You don't "snipe optics", you dump on target and let dispersion do the work. 1km with modern fire control systems is more than sufficient to aim at regions reliably.
>80mm turret face
slopped and at range
>100mm mantlet (with weakened zones)
curved and at range
meds
>With 90% velocity to treat it as a non muzzle shot
>Repeated hits to the mantlet where 70-80% penetration is readily achievable.
>Repeated hits to the turret face
>Perforations in mantlet for machine gun, optics, which result in weakened zones.
http://www.longrods.ch/perfcalc.php
Forgot to set the density of DU to be DU. Oh look, more penetration...
Fricking moron.
The Lanz-Odermatt Longrods site gives a figure in LOS thickness, not nominal armour thickness.
94mm @ 60 degrees = 47mm
Panther is 80mm @ 55 degrees = 139mm LOS
>Moving goalposts
>"Muh glacis plate"
>Not punching through the turret face or cheeks
No shit the hull can frontally resist 25mm APFSDS.
that's hilarious because you or the other moron were insisting it could go through the glacis
Keep trying to move the goalposts homosexual. I see implications of frontal turret rape for
and
calls out repeated hits on the front.
Show me where Black person
They use these formulas for war thunder anyway, you can test the 25mm DU against all the ww2 tanks in the armor analysis mode. The limitations are it doesn't do multiple hits and the german tanks are modeled with ideal quality steel armor.
Basically the tiger and panther are largely immune frontally at 2km, at close range it's borderline, any defective steel or multiple hits likely leads to penetration.
If you're planning on time traveling with your IFV take a cv90 with bofors 40mm or something with a CTA40.
Doesn't WT not model QA issues on any vehicles? It was notoriously rampant on T-34s which resulted in them being frontally penned by shit that can't touch them in-game
They used to way back when with at least the king tiger if memory served. Something like a ~.97 multiplier for the value to reflect the poor quality steel.
T-34 is OP Black person tank in WT, however at least it gets ventilated by Panthers at range, provided the driver hatch and optics dont send the shell to the shadow realm. If it was accurate it'd get overpressured by HE to the UFP.
The Bradley has a modern, western built autocannon mounted to modern, western built stabilisers and aimed using modern, western built optics
It can absolutely target a sensor package from a mere 1km away, that's basically point blank for a modern, western built system.
Depends how many and if they had a logistics train set up for them, and resources stockpiled for them, the ATGMs and NVDs would be very useful, the NVDs (and if applicable, Thermals) would be useful from an operations standpoint even if the bradleys werent used actively, the autocannons less so.
The cannon would not be sufficient to destroy a Tiger or Panther from the front unless they were at close range, at an angle almost perpendicular to the turret face for the panthers A, B and D, or the hull for the Tiger I, and could fire for several seconds. They'd not be able to penetrate a Tiger II or a Panther F unless they shot through the optics/mg ports or jammed the turret ting. They'd be able to easily penetrate the panther from the side from many angles, but would need to be at close range and almost at 90 degrees to the side of the hull of a Tiger I or II in order to penetrate it.
It essentially is a light tank though, its fast and lightly armoured, and is armed with a cannon, and its role is fighting tanks as well as being IFV, hence the decision to add missiles. Although its autocannon is smaller in calibre than many early light tanks, which tended to have 37mm at the smallest, but then again some IFVs have 40mm or 57mm autocannons.
If armed with its DU sabot rounds? Easily. Though the tanks theoretically have enough armor to withstand it, the shit thing about standard rolled steel armor is that it really doesn't like repeat punishments.
A few direct hits would sunder the plate, and the Bradley with its modern fire control system and sensors would be able to fire dozens of rounds before the Panther or Tiger could even locate it
Would this still happen assuming krauts didn't have fricked up steel?
Repeated hits to the same area can and will defeat armor. When the rounds are nearly able to penetrate they compromise a significant area around the damaged section.
In practice the hits won't be that tightly clustered but more than a (few) dozen hits to a foot or so of armor where the penetrators achieve >50% penetration into the armor can certainly weaken the protection.
For reference the 3UBR8s shown in that FEA example which in itself has faults (ex: how closely spaced the rounds are along with the impacts being nonrepresentative of reality) does 60mm or so of penetration. Armor damage is very much real.
>Be in a Panzer 4
>Suddenly have armor fragments and DU darts passing through the bodies of the crew in all positions
>Explodes when ammo stored all over the hull is hit.
>Be in a Panther
>Turret crew screaming briefly as the sound of hits ring off
>They go silent quickly after
>Blood, feces and hot steel smell fills the interior
>Nose burning
>Final drive grenades anyways when the driver tries to change position
light tanks in ww2 could destroy the tiger or the panther
By shooting them in the ass, what's your point?
>Be in a King Tiger
>Sleeping at night
>One of the other King Tigers suddenly throws the turret in a huge explosion in the middle of the night
>Fricking get the frick up and open the hatch to see what the frick just happened
>"THOOMF THOOMF THOOMF" from the distance
>A brief flash of light, immediately order the gunner to traverse the turret
>Driver trying to start the engine because fuel is always short because Nazi Germany logistics blew chunks
>Gunner cranking the turret away as some dim glow of a bazooka round is wizzing towards the King Tiger
>Engine finally cranks over, turret traverses to-
>Thrown out of turret a moment after the first explosion overhead while organs liquefy, death is quick for the fortunate
>because fuel is always short because Nazi Germany logistics blew chunks
I didn't know having "good logistics" made your country possess more oil.
Getting your trains strafed by superior air power tends to amplify the suffering a non motorized army experiences. Enjoy living in the barn with your mules, Dennis.
>hahaha those dumb germans weren't even motorized, they could have used them to transport the oil they didn't have
Thanks for posting these anon, up until now I had believed that this light IFV was completely immune to all forms of damage, but now I can clearly see that that is not the case.
>The turret front and rounded gun mantle was made of armor 100 mm thick. The turret front armor was mounted at an angle of 12 degrees. It had a Brinell Hardness rating of 235-276.
>anon thinks point blank penetration is the same at hundreds of meters away
actual moron
You want point blank?
Here's your point blank with 60 degrees of obliquity too.
Only the prototype P had a thinner and rounded turret front, and the mantlet was 120mm. The Henschel tigers, the production run, had a turret face of 185mm.
have a nice day dennis you fricking homosexual, i bet you're gonna start pissing yourself and falseflag spamming
>TOW missile
A squadron of Bradleys would be able to wipe out an entire German heavy armoured battalion with zero losses.
>No missiles but still have optics
Best scout vehicle of the war, fast with the best optics by leagues, cannon can frick up any light and most medium tanks without too many problems and it of course rapid fire so even if it doesn't kill the tiger outright it's liable to cripple its tracks or gun
>No missile or modern optics just fast with an autocannon
It's a very well armed light tank that can carry soldiers. Not a game changer but still a solid vehicle.
>light tank
even the original bradley weighed as mucvh as a panzer ivg
Designations are doctrinal, Bradley is faster than a Chaffee with absurdly good optics, it would be a light tank.
not at the time. see medium tank m7
>Slightly heavier than a Chaffee
>Slightly slower than a Chaffee
What does this prove?
>weighs as much as a bradley
>25% heavier than a chaffee
pretty sure you're being intentionally obtuse, but spelling it out expliclty anyway: the us used weights and a 50K lb vehicle was not going to be a light tank. m7 started as a light tank, but when its weight increased it was reclassified as a medium
Yes. Because the Bradley will spot the tank first, maneuver faster and get to an advantageous position with low odds of being spotted. If it gets spotted, it can retreat and reposition at speeds the tank crew could hardly fathom.
If you repeat the experiment 1000 times, some Bradleys will be destroyed, but in most cases, the tank crew will not even realize that the gig is up.
Stupid westoid
4 bradleys have already been destroyed in Ukraine as confirmed by russian mod
Another wunderwaffe for the grave
Just by attacking at night, it'd be clubbing baby seals
>bbbut muh armour penetration
so use that superior accuracy and nightfighting ability to target tracks and engine decks
>le elite wehraboo panzer division of 130 Tiger IIs
with 2 TOW missile tubes and 7 reloads each, a Bradley company of 14 tracks would snipe three quarters of that before even needing to rearm.
It would be vulnerable to pretty much everything scarier than an interwar anti-tank rifle (which are more or less comparable to modern .50 BMG). If we're assuming you're transporting a top of the line modern Bradley to frontline Europe in any point of WW2 though its sensors and TOWs would make it one of the most feared tank-hunters in the war; but then again what were you expecting from something built ~75 years later?