>6800 active personnel
Just a couple of decades ago this country had 200 thousand active personnel.
Is there any other country that has downgraded their military as much as Sweden?
>6800 active personnel
Just a couple of decades ago this country had 200 thousand active personnel.
Is there any other country that has downgraded their military as much as Sweden?
within 10 posts thirdies will post america woke military
>america woke military
its gonna be vietnam or aphgan
Everyone knows the Swedes will fight to the last Finn.
This
For as long as there is a single finnish man that can hold a rifle, Sweden shall remain free!
God I hate our politicians are such pathetic cucks, it would perfect time to attack and take some lebensraum in the west.
You're delusional if you think you'd even have a chance.
All of western Europe pretty much, especially Germany. Although Sweden/Germany has to cut military spending for refugee welfare programs.
>global firepower thinks this country is stronger than finland
lmao
lol even
>global firepower
they still think that russia is
>2nd army of the world
it's funny really
>6800 active personnel
Jesus I had no idea it was that low
>>6800 active personnel
Ancient stats
Sweden bought into the "end of history" hype a tad too much like the morons they are.
God it feels good to be a Finn and getting vindicated on our prepper tier paranoia about Russia in the 2000's
>vindicated
Vatnigs can't even take Ukraine. How does that not vindicate Sweden?
Because Ukraine had a half million personnel. If they'd gone after Sweden first it would've been an incredible shit show.
>If they'd gone after Sweden first it would've been an incredible shit show.
geographically it'd be impossible but god I'd love to have lived in that timeline.
Just the planes and ships of the SAAB sales team is enough to stop them from landing on the shores.
You need at least 10,000 soldiers available at any point on the potential front line to laugh at Russian excuse for an invasion.
>prepper tier paranoia about Russia in the 2000's
common sense more like
Has Russia attacked Finland yet? How are they doing in Ukraine? With what navy is Russia going to attack Sweden with?
Pekka...
>Has Russia attacked Finland yet?
Historically? Probably hundreds of times.
>How are they doing in Ukraine?
Better than expected as they have not been kicked out yet.
>With what navy is Russia going to attack Sweden with?
Swedecucks could not stop them if they took floaters and decided to swim over.
You guys could never afford to cuck out with orcs on your border
Yes, for Sweden the end of the Cold War was taken as far too much of a "new era" than it should've been. It was accepted in general that threats to Sweden was 0 after the dissolution of the Soviet Union; however it was also issued with strict safeguards against a potential Russian rearmament. As history would show, these signs that were predicted in the early 90s, was ignored by politicians.
Furthermore, Sweden invested heavily in its armed forces during the Cold War, much more than what can be devised from % of GDP defence spending and was far more autist-tier prepper than Finland. This was in turn an easy fiscal target, exacerbated by the swedish economic crisis of the early 90s (sweden had its 2008 crash in 1990).
Finland handled all these issues (and others) far better than we did. They remain the bastion and torchbearer of swedish administrative sanity.
>They remain the bastion and torchbearer of swedish administrative sanity.
well put. för våra finska bröder!
They are geographically isolated and not going to be invaded any time soon. They can get away with it.
>They are geographically isolated
Stockholm to Saint Petersburg 430 miles. Russian aircraft and missiles can eff up some Swede stuff pretty easily.
>Russian aircraft and missiles can
>Russian aircraft can
Can they really though?
not really
Look at the size of those canards, god damn, even viggen can get canard envy from those
As much as I like canards, I'm generally more of a Draken guy
Gripen is cool though
Hey, that aircraft (#816) is from my unit.
t. Gripengay
someone said the exact same thing about a Strv 122 yesterday
why are all of your vehicles in pictures on PrepHole
mainly autism
there is a large body of water between that. With a shoreline heavily favoring defenders. There is a reason the last war with russhitia was when swedes held estonia
They don't need huge military anymore because they're in NATO now
They don't need a huge military because Finland is between them and Russia.
Also in NATO
Also Russia.
Putin is NATO's best ally. He'll get every CIS country but Ukraine to join NATO
Sweden and Finland will never be in NATO.
Sure thing, Erdogan. Keep pissing off NATO and cozying up to Putin, that will work out well.
>baby is new to geopolitics
King Roach is pissed about the Kurds in Sweden which is why he is blocking them along with him wanting the arms embargo on Turkey to be lifted. The Turks hate Russia as well moron
>The Turks hate Russia as well
Now what makes you think that? The chummy pics with Erdogan and Putin, or the weapon purchases from Russia? The comfy little blockage that keeps NATO ships from entering the Black Sea? All signs of hatred?
Turkey selling Ukraine drones to bomb russians seems p. russophobic to me tbh
You are truly brain dead if you think Turkey is somehow on the Russian side.
Like the other anon said, they want some sort of concession to let them in, such as expelling the Kurds or the US lifting the arms embargo on Turkey. I guarantee you Biden will lift the embargo and then they will vote yes for Finland and Sweden
>expelling the Kurds or the US lifting the arms embargo on Turkey
none of these things will ever happen
t.swede
well, they are the principal supplier of combat drones to Ukraine, and they used their veto power to prevent <Russia> sending any more ships to the black sea. So they're pretty much backing up the ukies as they wreck the russian black sea fleet. They have certainly openly discussed buying shit from Russia in the past which says more about Ergodan than anything else
Turkey is one of the few states arming Ukraine since mid-2010s & largest foreign-investor since 2020
>https://intellinews.com/turkey-now-ukraine-s-top-foreign-investor-with-already-booming-free-trade-set-to-grow-further-225399
>https://kyivpost.com/business/burak-pehlivan-turkey-is-now-largest-investor-in-ukraine.html
Even vests & helmets of Ukraine's leadership are Turkish
>https://dailysabah.com/business/defense/turkish-firm-makes-ballistic-helmets-vests-for-zelenksyy-his-team
Uses Repkon machines to build missiles bodies upto 300mm
>http://web.archive.org/web/20180129123950/http://ukroboronprom.com.ua/uk/media/ukroboronprom-vygotovlyatyme-unikalni-ukrayinski-rakety-za-novoyu-tehnologiyeyu.html
>https://dailysabah.com/defense/2017/12/09/ukraine-to-produce-rocket-body-parts-using-turkish-machines
Deals signed by STM to build them corvette warships (incl. Mazepa), by TAI & Baykar to build drones on Ukrainian soil.
European states sold Russia $400M in arms since 2014 despite sanctions; 78% by Germany & France alone
>https://telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2022/04/22/exclusive-france-germany-evaded-arms-embargo-sell-weapons-russia
Most wouldn't sell them arms before 2022. Germany even blocked drone jammers.
>https://uawire.org/germany-blocks-delivery-of-anti-drone-jamming-guns-to-ukraine
>https://mil.in.ua/en/news/germany-is-blocking-the-supply-of-weapons-to-ukraine-by-nato
While Russian drones used German engines
>https://uawire.org/german-engines-found-in-russian-drones-used-by-militants-in-donbas
When Ukraine first did a strike w/ a commercial drone in Apr 2021 & TB2 in Oct 2021, France & Germany condemned it
>https://dw.com/en/germany-france-condemn-ukraine-escalation-call-for-restraint/a-57095476
>https://thehill.com/opinion/international/580377-france-and-germany-seem-to-forget-whos-behind-russias-war-on-ukraine
>https://qirim.news/en/novosti-en/ukraine-has-legal-right-to-self-defence-ambassador-to-germany-on-use-of-turkish-bayraktar-drones-in-donbas
[Continued]
As far as donations, around 200 BMC Kirpi MRAPs were donated by the Turkish government. At least a 100 of which have served or are currently serving in Ukraine based on videos alone.
>https://twitter.com/UAWeapons/status/1556763621002297345
>https://twitter.com/Arslon_Xudosi/status/1565968856941826050
>https://mil.in.ua/en/news/turkey-delivered-50-kirpi-armored-vehicles-to-ukraine-with-more-expected-defense-news/
Picrel is the latest one from earlier this month.
>https://twitter.com/clashreport/status/1610674155124363268
There are some disinfo trolls on Twitter who claim these were "bought" by Ukraine from BMC which is not true. Most of the Kirpis were painted sandy orange because they're from the TSK inventory. BMC would have painted them olive green for Ukraine, and they wouldn't be selling Kirpi 1s in the first place since the Kirpi 2 is already out.
Turkey donated two dozen Bayraktar Mini UAVs at the start of the war.
>https://twitter.com/UAWeapons/status/1561694761890758658
>https://twitter.com/UAWeapons/status/1560023332967292928
Oryx claims the Minis are from Baykar specifically but that's not true. They're from the TSK which is why they have Turkish flag markings on them (See pics in links above).
Baykar has donated two dozen Bayraktar TB2 UCAVs to Ukraine. Baykar is owned and operated by Erdogan's family members.
Ukraine received an unknown number of TRLG-230 laser guided surface-to-surface missile launchers from Turkey. It's unclear whether these were bought or also donated.
Oryx estimates Baykar alone donated $200M in weapons to Ukraine last year. If you add the 200 Kirpi armored vehicles at $350k a piece, that's another $70M. Turkey has donated no less than $300 million in weapons to Ukraine so far.
You put a lot of effort into that and it is an interesting read. Thank you. I can't quite get a grip on the volumes we are talking about here or how much of this was business as usual, but I will concede that Turkey has not been unwilling to work with Ukraine.
NTA but Turkey closing the Bosphorus to the Russians and providing Bayraktar kino in the early stage severely fricked up Russian operations and morale, respectively
If the Bosphorus had been opened, Russian ships would have been free to launch and support amphibious attacks on Odessa while NATO navies would be unable to intervene. Moskva could be easily replaced by Ustinov. In fact the entire Russian navy could have concentrated in the Black Sea and dominated it with significant impact on the coastal region and severely cramping Ukrainian airspace further. Plus, forget about the grain shipments at all.
Turkey struck a massive blow with that one move.
And whats his beef with Finland?
There's some kurds in Finland too. But primarily Erdogan is attempting to use his potential veto as a crowbar to get free gibs from not only both countries (who have been lukewarm about selling him weapon systems) but the entire NATO and in particular USA. This is strategies Erdogan have been using his whole life - whine, bark, bite, see what he can get for minimal effort. It has been working great for him so far.
NTA but my idea is basically that Erdogan is just like any other of the odd-out "neutral parties that just see that Russia ain't so bad" that are strangely addicted to power.
Probably has to do with money being used on astroturfing support so they get elected to they can be parasites on the state. Finland and Sweden are just things you can use as excuses for not doing certain things.
Even if the stuff about supporting terrorists directly was completely true, it'd be outweighed massively by the strategic implications of locking down the baltic and Russia's northern flank. If one truly disliked Russia, they'd want that, but this is the Erdogan who bought an S-400 self-homing air defense, so I don't think he does.
>made their own tanks
>made their own planes
>could make their own nukes but decided not to
>decent navy
All of this just to be reduced to another nato base
I would think Germany could contend with Sweden's low numbers. They've basically neutered themselves. It also doesn't help that they hardly have the energy for a large military due to losing nuclear plants and cutting off lots of oil suppliers.
Didn't they also have zero active artillery tubes for a couple weeks because they needed maintenance and some wise guy decided to just send in the entire goddamn reserve at once?
>be sweden
>have a country of literal cuckolds
>realize to keep it going you have to get rid of males with guns
it was smart
About 300K civilians are armed and have rifles and guns at home though.
That's the hunters, doesn't take into account sport shooters iirc.
True, forgot about those. Point was just that swedes are armed to the teeth.
You can also have like 5 guns on the hunting license so it adds up.
Not a replacement for infantry training
I'd like to see those sport hunters clear a house, do contact drills and fire an NLAW for example
"Civvies" would get AT4s. Instructions are printed in easy Swedish on them.
>just read the IKEA manual, no training necessary
Many of those people would have gone through conscription back when they still had it. But yeah Sweden was fricked from the get go
>tfw born in Finland because my parents moved back here to avoid their kids having to go through the atrocious Swedish school system
>when they still had it
its been reinstated since some years back now
Very limited compared to what they used to have. Used to be virtually everyone who was of age, now it's a lottery and it's like 5% of the age cohort or some shit
To be fair, it was under a "total defense" stance (parts of which are still in place, like the no-surrender law combination and mobilization of society) that happened, which was pretty much rooted in the whole neurality thing.
Ever since the EU became a thing and the Cold War ended, the need to be neutral pretty much disappeared. There's no big empire to the east, just a nuisance.
Simultaneously, the only realistic enemy for Sweden, Russia, can only attack through the shitty terrain in the north of Finland, the shitty terrain that is Sweden's coastline or the island of Gotland.
Basically, the need for a fricking huge army isn't there because Russia cannot field a big army here to fight anyone with anymore.
The most significant battles between Sweden and Russia would go something like Air>Naval>Artillery>Infantry/Armor and Sweden outclasses them in most of those areas when it comes to be able to actually deploy things in the local area.
The Gotland thing is pure cope because you had virtually nobody stationed there before 2017
Gotland is objectively an object of interest for the only foreign adversaries of Sweden. Just cause they're not dumb enough to actually invade an EU country doesn't mean it isn't.
Now that they're getting uppity, the reaction being to actually defend it instead of just patrolling the coast and places with subs makes more sense.
Fortunately, I don't think Russia will be in good enough strength to try anything for a long time after this war anyway. It's basically just foolproofing a victory at this point. Putting Finland and Sweden into NATO is just the nail in the coffin.
Wat. 670 000 legal gun owners with a total count of +3 million guns was the last I heard. Not counting service weapons kept at home. We’re probably up to 800k now after 2015 + covid hype
I think the 300K are the ones that buys the hunting license each year.
This is some precarious cope. Gunowners are actively arrested, discriminated against, and have their guns confiscated for saying racist things online about the shitskin rapefugees that the Sweden Communist Party(yes they are the ones in power at the moment) imports like crack.
>yes they are the ones in power at the moment
the left party (rebranded from the comunist party in 1990) isnt part of the current government coalition (sitting since late last year). They were however in the last two along with the greens and social democrats.
on the topic on politics though I should say that i think everyone apart from the sweden democrats (nationalists) were all for neutering the military and getting rid of the "total defence" concept. so this isnt a left or right issue, everyone agreed that its the end of history and that money can be better spent elsewhere.
For the longest time the idea was that the military should just have a few expeditionary units for UN missions and such, its not untill russias 2014 invasion of uktraine that everyone realized that this might be a moronic idea. And it was 2022 when people actually properly started corse correcting and focusing on national defense again.
Sounds like something you pulled out of your ass.
Also imagine being moronic enough to say sus shit online without a proxy. Deserved
Wasn't long ago that we had mandatory military training so there's a whole lot more people to call in if need be.
That is 12 years ago
Ever heard of "skills fade"?
Faded skills will still be miles above whatever third world army would potentially try something.
They did also atart ir up again but zoomers are kind of pussies that don't want to so there was a bunch of whining.
Russia is showing just how poorly activate the conscripts can go. without an existing organization to plug into that type of "reserve" is useless. You're going to lose all your trained manpower holding the line while mobiks mill around uselessly trying to get organized.
>Russia is showing just how poorly activate the conscripts can go
For russians. Are all mothballed planes and tanks rusted pieces of shit in every other country on the planet just because russias are?
Maybe? It takes manpower to maintain equipment even in storage, and more manpower to bring it out of mothballs. The swedish army has 6800 active personel and 2200 pieces of armor. The swedish air force has 2700 personnel and 207 aircraft! There is no way they are kept in flyable condition. For comparison, the usaf has 5200 aircraft and over 100k maintainers alone, not counting other personnel.
Moreover, it doesn't matter how good the equipment is if the people using it aren't organized and trained. Just because a group of guys served ten years ago doesn't mean they can walk in and magically become a functional integrated combat unit.
>Maybe
Right. Your numbers are way off, and you don’t know the procedure for how we store our reserves or who maintains them. We downsized our reserves massivly, out right scrapping it because it was too expensive to keep with our cucked commie budget. Whatever is left is in good condition and maintained. Swedish military doctrine is the opposite of russian. Our reserves will obviously be a lot worse than our contract soldiers but in a defensive situation with our fighting style it will not be the same as a war of conquest by the russin gay rape army.
Sweden never had 200 000 active personell. We had conscription, and a fully mobilised war time organisation of about 1 000 000 men.
There are pros and cons for all organisations. In our case, a large portion of the army would not have very modern equipment (though it was deemed that it would be sufficient and air/navy was more important).
The current doctrine will be able to field heavy army units quickly, roughly 4-5 army brigades depending on how you count it when the new organisation is in place. A lot of things is happening in the swedish armed forces, the defence budget being doubled.
Sweden has 54 900 personal.
The US is falling 20-30% below recruiting targets, and is taking in fatter and dumber recruits to do even that. It will be worse this year.
Put globohomosexual in charge, and that's what you get.
>6800
You've misread the personnel numbers.
>https://www.forsvarsmakten.se/sv/organisation/om-var-organisation/personalsiffror
>9400 officers
>5100 full-time soldiers & sailors
>9100 civillian personnel (with mandatory weapons training)
home guard
>4400 part time soldiers & sailors
>6800 part time reserve officers
This still excludes the main part of our military, the reserves.
There were multiple reasons for the decline. I do know they decided to end conscription at some point, and eventually regretted this. They also let military wages slide down so deep it was a poor economic decision for capable people to enlist if they had other work options.
>>6800 active personnel
Plain simply wrong. We have more active officers alone then that number for a start.
>6800 active personnel
What sort of made up bullshit are you spouting?
>Is there any other country that has downgraded their military as much as Sweden?
Russia
>mom meets soldier returning from service in Afghanistan at a bar
>he's conflicted about going there to fight the Taliban while Afghan refugees just frick around in Sweden
Not sure if they fugged, he was a lot younger than my mom.
Yeah they fugged
Funnily enough Swedish military tried to enlist me couple of years ago after they heard I had Finnish military training. It happened at Comiccon 2019 I think.
If Sweden was invaded Norway and Denmark would throw in with the Swedes and they have enough fighters between them to make life harder for the Russians than the Swedish airforce is already doing. I'd expect Finland to get in on it too, their primary worry being sharing s land border with Russia though. The Nordic circlejerk becomes a hornets' nest very quickly if you kick it. Judging by the state of the Moskva, the Danish navy would likely frick their shit despite being comparstively tiny. Danish fighters have evicted Russian planes from Swedish airspace before.
>23,000 from 8 million
>Great power to "I thought that was part of Germany or Switzerland."
>Dominating the Balkans while invading Russia and Italy at the same time to total irrelevance.
> have a monarchy hellbent on inbreeding and wasting population in wars
What could go wrong?
Austria and Mongolia are the two biggest falls in history. At least Mongolia was only directly relevant for a bit. Austria was a premier power for centuries and turned into a Belgium. I don't think anyone has had quite that level of decline in relevance.
/k/ is the dumbest board on PrepHole.
Says more about you if you think thant freedom and tools to defend it are stupid
wot?
there's like 25k in the tf alone
HEMVÄRNET!