https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/ukraines-zelenskiy-orders-creation-separate-military-force-drones-2024-02-06/
actually doing this is largely stupid. most types of drones are used in conjunction with ground forces and splitting them off will reduce their ability to communicate effectively. iirc the red army in ww2 had similar problems stemming from the way that it structured fighter and bomber units
I guess that something like a tb2 would be an exception, but we know that this isn't what we have in mind
OTOH Ukraine needs to maintain the "technologically superior / cleverer army massacring the enemy with drones" angle. regardless of whether it's true, it makes for great propaganda. zelensky making this announcement helps to keep that up.
>the red army in ww2
>this is somehow comparable to the communications and logistics between branches in the year 2024
Yeah OP great thread. It's definitely a problem that zero militaries have solved before. That's why when US soldiers call in an airstrike, it takes three full hours before the plane launches and then it hits the wrong grid. There is just simply no way to facilitate fast communications between different branches.
US has not solved this and there are lots of GWOT horror stories.
The time required to clear the 40km flight path of a himars rocket or the 20km trajectory of a 155 shell with multiple air assets in the sky at any given time caused 30 minute delays because US Army and US Air Force had no good way to talk to each other in Afghanistan.
>GWOT
That's your problem right there
They were operating under extremely restrictive hearts and minds friendly COIN rules
The actual communication time took no more than 10 minutes, the rest of the time was taken up by checking and double checking and triple checking that local civvies were out of the way before shooting
In a near peer war that wouldn't be the case
It's exactly what happened to every Air Force in the world in the first half of the 20th century
The advantage of centralising the drone force in this way is rationalising and streamlining doctrine, training and production, which is absolutely the right way to go if the AFU intend to continue deploying drones at scale
when did the US Army give up operating attack helicopters and drones?
radio isn't going to magically make several independent officers from different branches agree on something. replacing a tree-shaped command structure with a spaghetti-shaped one isn't a good idea
what purpose would a dedicated drone branch even have?
>scouting out positions for troops
keep them in the army, they'll be more effective
>some kind of tb2 thing
ukraine doesn't have enough of these to make them their own force
>attacking targets on the frontline
again, you want coordination with infantry if you want this to be effective. unless you're just picking off wounded russians, in which case you can fly around freely i guess. however, this is largely a waste of resources (they're already casualties, who cares) so it still qualifies as ineffective
Behind-lines drone attacks of airbases, fuel refineries, munitions factories etc.
Drone Force specialists embedded with infantry units, like Navy corpsmen running with marines. Problem?
>drag drone operators out into their own unit, then put them back
genius! This is the thinking Ukraine needs to turn the tide of the war by 360 degrees
Okay.
>a department just for their development or a school for specialist training makes sense.
But attached personnel from other branches, too far apparently.
>Ukraine winning
>turn 360
>still winning
>what purpose would a dedicated drone branch even have?
TZD
war tourists should get the rope
this guy gets it
there's a reason why the US prefers organic fires compared the Chinese "fires have their own branch and so does logistics" model
>what purpose would a dedicated drone branch even have?
Logistic - you need to certificate and request a purchase of drones, antennas, glasses, etc.
Personal - you need to train personnel, and make official positions for them (now you can be FPV-pilot, but in the army, you are still in a position of infantryman).
Standardization of ammunition - almost for now every FPV-pilot needs to be a sapper and make their own explosives.
Doubting this it's like "why do you need a separated artillery brigade when you can have an artillery company within an infantry brigade"
The sanest post ITT that explains what could cover current problems
>what purpose would a dedicated drone branch even have?
Long range attacks into Russian territory. It’s a cheapo equivalent to the Russian strategic bomber branch which operated independently from the Air Force and air defense.
This is why the US will never fight a real enemy, their entire airforce is worthless because it is simply incapable of supporting ground operations. All they can do is randomly bomb cities like in Yemen.
Drones just means guys in air conditioned rooms in Germany will pick up the slack. Which means they won't need "ukraine" to keep the war going.
>t. ard
>Drones just means guys in air conditioned rooms in Germany will pick up the slack. Which means they won't need "ukraine" to keep the war going.
Good.
It's making a dedicated force centered around autonomous and remote weapons. You're posing it like Zelensky is mandating that drones are to be removed from the other brances and put only in the drone branch. Nothing in the article suggests that, and I think you're misreading it.
The line troops still keep their drones, and new units will be made up that are exclusively focused on drones, pretty simple.
An entire branch dedicated to getting the most out of drones; innovation, coordination, countermeasures. Sounds like something five eyes suggested and wants to see tested out.
A branch to surpass Chair Force
It shouldn't be a separate force but integrated into every force. Drones can be used as the lowest levels from air force guards watching a fence to a section of infantry so making it a separate force just creates longer kill chains.
best post ITT
too obvious moron
Damn bro. You better write him a letter with this vital information.
I'm 100% certain nobody but you thought of this and that your mum will say she's proud of you for the first time in 35 years and give you allowance buy that weeb sex pillow you wanted.
The PLA also wanted to create a drone force, but found the name to be redundant.
Anon is really obsessed with the chinks, I wonder why?
Anon is too easily offended by an obvious joke, I wonder why?
Why not just keep FPV drones etc within the army and let the air force handle the big drones? Ukraine already showed during the summer offensive that they have trouble with units effectively communicating with each other on a battalion level during the summer offensive and had to return to smaller scale assaults. Unless they fixed those issues increasing overhead seems like a bad idea.
yep
Why the frick is he making ANY decisions
What's wrong with that?
to kill more russians
moron
concern trolls
>check Ukrainian drone operators reaction
>They celebrate this decision because it means drones will have one qualified structure to train, supply and develop drones
>check /k/
>neverserved and neverfought explain how it's actually very bad because something ww2
I don't give a frick what Slavs think tbqh
what are you, some Reddit cheerleader? just desperately seething that someone might think Ukraine isn't perfect?
It always accuses others of what it does itself.
>slavs
>reddit
>ukraine bad
bingo
seethe moronic pig
>itt concern trolls
>I don't give a frick what Slavs think
The funny part is that unlike (you), they are capable of thought.
Why do you need a separate branch for a drone school?
you dont. you also don't need a separate branch to have focused drone procurement programs. actually, at this point, I'm starting to think the branch thing is a mistranslation
>you also don't need a separate branch to have focused drone procurement programs
Who makes decisions what drones to develop, how to train operators, how knowledge shares , how drone operators can climb a rank?
you know you could just have division and brigade level drone elements right? on top of platoon ones? You could pose this same moronic question about artillery and missiles. go jerk off the PLA
seethe
kek you don't even know what the reference to the PLA means. you don't know what organic support is or what a division level asset is. do you even know what a brigade is? or can you only post like a /misc/tard with shitty little non-sequitors?
seethe
Cool, USA should dissolve Field Artillery Branch
is this a language barrier thing? the Field Artillery Branch is a part of the US Army, it's not a separate branch of the armed forces. it's part of the Army. It's not a separate branch of the armed forces
if this is all a language issue and what Ukraine is proposing is the formation of a Drone Branch within their Army, and not a drone force on the level of the air force/army/navy branches then I have no issue with it and I'll piss myself laughing that this misunderstanding occurred. but they seem to point to the latter
they did you stupid fricking moron, about a century ago
>You could pose this same moronic question about artillery
Which did indeed have their own branch and some of the biggest steps forward in artillery was when people started putting them all together and standardising
Now toddle back to your Cawofdoody campaign that's all your peanut brain is good for
>You could pose this same moronic question about artillery and missiles.
here moronic concern troll
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Field_Artillery_Branch_(United_States)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_Defense_Artillery_Branch
okay so this is indeed a language barrier thing. that's hilarious. you guys are really funny. I wish it was America hours right now so more people could see what you just posted
Stovepiping, idiot
Otherwise drone operators from Army, Air Force and Navy and all their sub-branches will develop their own ways of drone use, reinventing the wheel and not being updated on best practices someone else discovered
Based. Neverserve threads get the virtual rope.
The real neverserved are people who wasted their life in the military. Provided nearly no value to American life and now feel entitled to peoples respect. Hilarious. If you want to serve, join law enforcement. LEO chads make the bootvirgin seethe. Seethe moronic pigs
Law enforcement sucks. You deal with the worse of society every day and nobody likes you. Being in the army is way better because you get to go on fun training exercises all the time and everyone loves you.
NTA but I was marine and am now currently a LEO and have been shown much more respect in as the former. Got spit on in uniform twice when I was a marine tho
That's a part of being a marine. You gotta embrace the suck. Folks who want the easy life join the navy.
I meant latter. Wow I actually am a dumb jarhead. They were right about me 🙁
Is that deer gonna be ok?
Nobody fricking likes you, pig.
ITT: anons try to find any reason to say that having seperate funding and logistics for drones overlooked by younger, more idealistic men as opposed to your average oligarch is a bad idea for Ukraine.
threads are always shit when the Americans are asleep and you have to put up with the various flavours of subhuman pretending they know anything about warfighting
god sometimes I regret being overseas
>Zelensky actually makes a good decision
>immediately flooded with concern trolls
>62 seconds
>unchanged poster count
>concern trolls
actually embarrassing bro
seethe moronic pig
seethe moron
the ziggers must be scared
Just because there's a separate force for drones doesn't mean that other forces will stop using drones themselves. The drone force will most likely have totally different tasks than other organizations.
I didn't read the article though. Maybe it's saying the exact opposite to my heuristic thinking
its not actually clear what they're doing. the headline is misleading a little. Zelensky has ordered the government to figure out how to create a drone force and what that would require and look like, and he expects that report to be completed asap and then acted upon. in other words - no one knows what they will do exactly because they're still figuring it out.
You can no longer discuss weapons on this God forsaken board without some discord troon schizoing out over how his third world sithole war sports team is winning.
Grim.
yeah it's pretty grim, the Gaza threads are worse because you have smug Zionist liars on one hand and seething mudslime morons who are equally as dishonest on the other. that äää is based though, probably the best source of real info about Ukraine rn, him and the ___ vehicle in Ukraine guy. and even besides them half the threads about western gear and warriortard/armatard schizozones
but it's still better than pre-war when 80% of threads were about how Russia and China had the best militaries in the world forreal you guys! /k/ hasn't been good since 2014
>äää
Who?
seethe moron
It is better not to have too many different command chains trying to exist together in the same work space. There needs to be a central coordinator. The further away the drone decisions are from the troop decisions, the more problems it will cause.
There probably is an ideal amount of split for subordinates to have, to keep them all answering to the central authority. However, in this case, the infantry should be in charge of the drones, at least on the front lines.
>concern troll
Cute how the morons are trying to discredit it because it's from Zelensky.
CЛABA POCCИИ!!!
yes zisters, slave bbc poc cnn
Why does this make shills so scared?
Because it means more drones, better trained operators and very nasty drone developments being used on whole front not in specific places
>but it's still better than pre-war
no it's not. before the war you could have a debate and j[redacted] wouldn't enforce the rules in a way that heavily favored one side
>very nasty drone developments
like what? the last meaningful innovation on the ukrainian side was rpg-7 fpv drones. other than that, all they change is the phonk music they use in the compilations
>the last meaningful innovation on the ukrainian side was rpg-7 fpv drones
I don't understand why people do this, you clearly have only surface knowledge about drone situation but pretend that you know what the frick you're talking about
Reusable FPV drones
Single motor fpv drones
EFP warhead fpv drones
Thermite package for destroying disabled vehicles and mining, drone mining in Kherson is crazy
More smooking accidents for Moscovia.
What is a "branch" in the Ukrainian military? Is it a major service like US Army, AF, Navy etc. Or is it more soviet where e.g. Strategic rocket forces, air defence forces and VDV are separate branches?
To me it seems like long tange strike drones would be an AF thing and quadcopters could be an army school, but I'm sure they have their reasons
in the article they refer to it as a new domain and directly compare it to the air/sea/land domains. idk
just because the US makes interoperability look easy doesn't mean it is
>just because the US makes interoperability look easy doesn't mean it is
It is easy, if everyone communicates and knows the chain of command.
If communication is shit, then everything else will follow. An aircraft squadron from the USMC vs USAF vs USN vs pick you favorite military's air force have different capabilities; however, any one or all of those can work together just the same as multiple squadrons from the same military branch, as long as within a unified command and all of those communicate.
Similarly, if the US Army has 2 brigades of a division somewhere, which do not communicate well... then bad shit can happen.
BTW, the US Army is incomprehensibly moronic for everyone on the outside looking in. It has brigades and regiments and sometimes the regiment will have two battalions, but those battalions are in different brigades and it is all so moronic compared to the USMC's simple and effective structures. Somehow the morons in the US Army know what they are doing within their independent brigade structures that can also operate within divisions and corps augmented with US Army Reserves and US Army National Guard.
One time my dad tried to explain the difference between the US Army and Regular Army to me. It all seemed very stupid. Then add in the Reserve Army, IRR, National Guard, Corps of engineers, artillery corps, etc. At the end of it, I asked my dad why the Army was so stupid. He could not give me an answer, which I found satisfactory.
BTW, a Brigade structure with 3 battalions from 3 Regiments really fricks with my mind, and the USA Army should not do that sill shit.
I'd assume it meant to be like "signal troops branch" or "artillery branch".
Not really it's own organization the way US Army and US Marines are basically entirely independent.
This will be just specialists that will get assigned all over the place that are technically not infantry/artillerymen/airmen/etc.
I'm pretty sure there are guys who are using drone all day while being listed as "assistant machinegunner" or something in the official unit organization right now.
At least that's how I would do it as a armchair field marshal.
That sounds smart to me, drone units get trained in drone branch/school and then get subordinated to infantry commands, much like medics, engineers, cbrn and so forth
It really should not matter, if it is only the command, training and R&D structure. If the drone warfare force is still in the Army, then it is little more than an arm in the branch. It might not be any different than having an artillery corps or engineering corps. It is just talk and studies now, so who cares.
Ukraine already has drone units using FPV drones on the ground.
The US Military works with different branches and different allies' militaries. The only thing that really matters is who is in command of an area and what capabilities are within the command. Having US Army transportation battalion augmenting USMC MEF with USAF or USN support aircraft and USN Seabee engineering unit with US Space Force unit with civilian contractors cooking unit with a British marching band all supplied by US Transportation Command with US Special Forces Command's secret Grey Aliens' Space Marines really does not matter, as long as all of the morons know what they are supposed to do.
Oh no, a new branch? They're gonna make the same mistake as interwar militaries with their tank forces, bros!!!
Drone military? Heh, I bet they could get a few pointers from a little something called the public school system.
Heh
>zelensky making this announcement helps to keep that up.
No it doesn't when Russia is clearly winning the drone arms race against ukraine in both quantity and quality.
>when Russia is clearly winning the drone arms race against ukraine in both quantity and quality.
What is your evidence that this is the case?
It’s more about the impression rather than what the truth actually is. If westerners THINK Ukraine is doing well, they’re more inclined to provide aid. Whether Ukraine is actually doing well isn’t as relevant
Yeah that’s why every type of weapon has its own branch
Drone Warfare detachments makes more sense.
Honestly, if you were following stuff closely you'd be pretty sure at this point that Zelensky is on a roll when it comes to major frick ups, but just like his "fans" he has dug himself too deep to self reflect on his actions so the sham continues.
>Honestly, if you were following stuff closely you'd be pretty sure at this point that Zelensky is on a roll when it comes to major frick ups, but just like his "fans" he has dug himself too deep to self reflect on his actions so the sham continues.
This is good it encourages Ukrainians most scared of the war to join a branch that trains them specifically to attack the enemy from several miles away.
If a lot of the unmanned drones become autonomous using AI then those can free up soldiers and become essentially extra soldiers on the battlefield without needing to recruit anyone