Elevated heels exist for only one purpose. When you are riding a horse, you can slide your foot into the stirrup, and the elevated heel acts as a stop so your leg doesn't slide completely through. This allows you to shift your body weight on the saddle as needed during maneuvering on horseback. Because horse ownership was usually limited to the wealthy, elevated heels became a status symbol, and eventually became a ubiquitous fashion feature. This is one reason why Western people develop significant joint and back problems when they are only 40 years old (another is pants with low cut waists and crotches that makes proper squat, lifting, and high step form impossible). Elevated heels do not offer any cushioning or protection, because they are hard. They have no advantage whatsoever if you are not riding a horse. When you go to a sporting goods store and see hiking boots with thick heels, this is a genetic lineage to a useless fashion accessory from the 1800s and has no function whatsoever other than to gradually destroy your body.
flat shoes make my back hurt, i like boots with a heel
That means you are already deformed
What a weird picture. There's no reason plantar flexion of the ankle from an elevated heel would result in flexion at the knee, there's no reason flexion at the knee should result in flexion at the hip.
Low t posture. Flat shoes won't help, you see plenty of slouching flatfeet folks wearing vans and chucks.
Yes there is because the position of your feet dictates the position of your whole body. That's literally your foundation.
There’s something seriously wrong with your body if you’re unable to stand on your toes while maintaining a good posture.
You can, by shifting balance on your joints in an unnatural way that gradually destroys them
Which joints are those? When I stand on my toes while maintaining proper posture, I don't notice any strain or discomfort in any of my joints.
When standing on your toes you are exerting significant muscular energy in your calf. The only way to alleviate this is to redistribute it to your knees, which cannot lock into a neutral position without your entire center of gravity shifting forward, destroying your balance.
I can balance pretty fine while standing on my toes with straightened knees.
Yes because the ligaments around your patella and your ACL are still healthy for the time being and you and don't notice what you're doing. You could go a long time without getting your tires balanced and be fine too.
Walk in flat shoes for several days and then abruptly go back to elevated heel shoes and you will immediately notice pressure around your knee cap and difficulty with elevation and squat/high step motions. You're using your ligaments to stop your leg bones from disassembling instead of the skeletal structure itself. This is painless and works just fine until it doesn't
I almost always walk in flat soled shoes in this time of year. I often use boots with higher heels in the winter or when I'm hiking. I've never felt any pain in my knees or anywhere else so far.
>You're using your ligaments to stop your leg bones from disassembling
wut
That's fine. Your body will break down in your 40s or earlier. It's completely normal these days. Not necessary, but normal.
My dad's 60 and does PrepHole shit you can only dream of, in heels. As did his dad, in heels.
Alright, I did a couple more tests relevant to this by placing a book under my heels. What I figured is that standing on my toes while having my heels firmly planted on the books doesn't noticeably affect my balance. Additionally, it felt just as natural to stand with extended knees and proper posture as it does with the heels on the floor. I also couldn't notice any differences in the orientation of my hips nor my back when bending the knees.
Now do it for years
I've been doing it on and off for years already. Why would my body break down in my 40s when I'm leading a healthy life? It didn't happen to my parents or their parents even though all of them have worn shoes with elevated heels much more excessively than me.
If you want to permanently distort your natural body mechanics at the very foundation because of an imaginary advantage and because you think you will get lucky and not suffer consequences, go for it, it's your life.
It's a little hard to be afraid of these scenarios when they're not corroborated by my experience or the experiences of anyone I know.
Except for 90% of men in the country middle aged and over who have so much back and knee pain that it prevents them from living life the way that they want to.
What does that have to do with elevated heels?
Have you read a single post in this thread?
Yep. All you've done is you've kept assuring me that I will surely start suffering from hideous pains any year now.
When I go outside, I tend not to wear clothing that negatively impacts my body mechanics.
>When I go outside, I tend not to wear clothing that negatively impacts my body mechanics.
So you wear suspenders with the front clip attached to the corners of your cargo pockets of pants that have been cut into shorts long enough to accomodate this technique so as to hike them way up and create an "accordion" effect in the hips and buttocks that completely eliminates all drag during squat and high step motions associated with maneuvering off trail in the mountains? This is the only technique I have ever seen that allows for complete freedom of motion with pants that you can buy in any American store. If you're wearing a belt you would have to order weird high waisted pants like you see in portraits of Napoleon or George Washington in order to move naturally. If you aren't at least wearing suspenders in some manner then you absolutely do not have complete range of motion without constantly pulling your pants up with your hands.
Anon, you just have autism. I'm sorry.
Actually I engage in activities off-trail in the Appalachians frequently and have for over 20 years. I can tell in two seconds just looking at someone whether they have "mountain legs" or not.
>please belieb me
I don't think I will. You're far too autistic about your clothing to be outdoors much. I have a feeling the wrong kind of sock would trouble you so much you'd just go home.
If you cannot do a proper squat without touching your pants the mountains will devour you
Nobody argues against this. You brought up all the clothing facts and started arguing against your own thoughts.
You saying that people who aren't "constantly frustrated" with their clothing don't go PrepHole - that's over-the-top autism and hilarious.
It is not physically possible to achieve complete from of movement with any clothing that you can buy in any American store unless you are willing to wear something like yoga pants. If you do not have complete freedom of movement you will destroy your knees and your back. In the mountains you will do so very quickly.
So?
You are so extraordinarily obsessed with clothing, I don't know what's wrong with you. Being "constantly frustrated" with your clothing PrepHole isn't the norm and it isn't healthy.
You don't know what's wrong with me because physical activity in the mountains is just a hobby to you, but to me it's a lifestyle.
>i am le epic backwoodsman and therefore i obsess about pants and get mad at my clothing all of the time
Alright anon, whatever gets you through the day.
If you cannot do a full squat without pulling your pants up using your hands to free up your legs, this is a massive predictor of your long term joint and back health and your competency doing anything in the mountains. At the very least you will never kill an animal without a tree stand. You are basically disabled whether you realize it or not.
>i have thought up another counterpoint to a point you've never made
Alright anon.
It's the most important thing you've ever read on this board. Laugh at it now, all that matters is that you remember it.
Just what the frick are you rambling about? Going on an autistic tangent like this isn't the gotcha you think it is.
But anyway, what I wear kind of depends on the situation. I often use the same trousers for rock climbing as I do when I go out in the summer. If the range of motion they allow for is good enough for the former, it sure is also perfectly decent for the latter.
I wear the exact same outfit all year during every activity and it is the only clothing I own
Could you explain your schizo train of thought to me? What does your preferred outfit have to do with your claim about shoes with elevated heels causing people's bodies to disintegrate by the time they're 40?
Your clothing must fit your body and protect you from the environment. Once you have developed a system that achieves that there is no reason to switch to anything else. Thus there is only one outfit. There isn't a "rock climbing" outfit. There is one outfit, and insulation and rain protection that goes over that as needed.
What kind of a dipshit would wear the same outfit skiing in -20 degrees centigrade as when rock climbing in 20 degrees centigrade?
You add insulation and wind resistance. You don't "change" your clothing.
>t-shirt, softshell trousers, climbing shoes
>woolly base layer, padded trousers, fleece or jumper, jacket, woolly hat, mittens, ski boots
These look like the same outfit to you? Changing between them doesn't constitute "changing" clothing?
For me it's
> Polyester hoodie
> Polyester pyjama bottoms
> Raincoat
> Mechanic gloves
Little else
Because they're fat fricks
Actually pants and belts are a much bigger cause of disability in America than shoes. If you can at least wear suspenders and get your crotch high you might be able to get away with wearing cowboy boots everywhere and not suffer too badly. You have to learn proper squat form and unlearn the shitty lifting form we all learned as children by being stuffed into low crotch pants held up with only a belt that made it impossible to spread your legs far enough to move correctly. The entire country is crunching their backs everyday because their pants are literally tying their legs together and they're not aware of it because they've never known anything else.
Lmao those dudes in old photos did have their pants pretty high and suspenders on.
Just what the hell are you talking about? Regular trousers don’t limit my ability to squat at all.
You're fricking moronic.
A heel lug offers so much more grip. Minimals are comfy though.
Nowhere near as much grip as ice cleats, which I wear year-round in the woods. They make an much of a difference on leafy hills as they do on ice.
They're shit on bare rocks though, which I'm often on here. They're also loud, I like being as quiet as possible.
They're excellent on rocks so maybe you're using the wrong kind. They only make noise on rocks and gravel and pavement, they are completely silent off-trail. 1 pair is only 13 ounces. They are so effective that I actually have a panic attack if I forget them. With these combined with a walking stick I can basically go in a straight line anywhere even in the Appalachians.
Yeah old-school hobnail boots were always used in climbing rocks.
Just because shoes were made one way for one reason back then does not mean that they are made for the same reason today.
They’re made the way they are for literally no reason. It’s purely form over function. We buy shoes with elevated heals because… shoes just have elevated heels. There’s no purpose behind it.
Only true for fashion items. Look into the history of logging boots.
I have. There’s no reason given. I was skeptical of the no-drop meme, but instead of the deformed knee jerk reaction most people have I took some time to look into it. Boots have heals because the boots that came before them had heals. That’s it. There’s nothing more to it than that.
Wrong. They give you extra traction and support on inclines and declines which protects your ankles and knees from over-extension. I recently switched to hiking with a boot that has a fairly elevated heel and it's actually improved my posture. Your imagine is stupid. The left and right have nothing to do with footwear. Left is the high T outdoorsman and the right is the high E backpacker.
>ankles and knees from over-extension
This is only a problem if your feet and ankles are already atrophied and deformed.
Anyone can injure themselves. High heel boots were created centuries ago when virtually everyone was fit and walking around non-stop, and this was still a big enough issue for loggers and outdoors workers to warrant a solution.
Yes Europeans have had fricked up bodies for a long time and actually injure themselves every time they pick something off the ground.
definitely two different posters
You clearly have limited range of motion and stunted Achilles tendons from a lifetime of wearing footwear that isn't designed for the human body
I have never had an ankle injury in my life my same samegayging friend. I've hiked in flat shoes, high heel boots, and bare footed. High heel has its place for certain types of terrain. It also gives better traction in mud and snow.
They do not make any difference in mud or snow. What makes a difference is cleats.
You just exposed yourself for the inexperienced moron that you are. Stop posting now.
Maybe they make some marginal difference. Not worth destroying your body, not comparable to cleats.
>Not worth destroying your body
You keep saying this, yet I guarantee you that my feet, ankles and knees are in better shape than yours. Like I said earlier, I've never had a foot/leg injury and I've been doing running sports my entire life and go hiking every week. You're like a fat person preaching to thin people about why carbs are the devil. People don't become fanatical about these sorts of fake solutions to problems unless they have that problem themselves.
You have clearly expressed a limited range of motion, particularly in the calf, so your legs are actually injured.
You cannot squat. You cannot descend without ruining your knees. You are destroying your back every day.
My shoes cost $20
Enjoy staying on trails
That's $20 more than I need to spend to enjoy my time outdoors. I just spent all of yesterday bushwhacking through the Canadian shield in my high heeled boots and my feet feel great. Keep projecting your health problems onto others
Enjoy having your knees rebuilt when you're not even halfway through life
>he just can't accept that he's wrong
The reason your ankles are so bad is because you're overweight and you spent your childhood sitting on your ass playing videogames. It's got nothing to do with the shoes you were wearing. If wearing different shoes now helps your problem, that's great! But it's not for everyone. Just because you have [insert ailment here] doesn't mean you should be shilling your medication to everyone.
I don't have an ailment, I am in excellent shape and always have been. The issue I have had has been difficulty in stalking wild game due to modern footwear completely ruining the dexterity of the feet. That is what sent me down the rabbit hole of minimalist footwear, not pain. Today high-end hiking and outdoor footwear all just feel like ski boots to me and it's astonishing that people actually wear them.
>I don't have an ailment, I am in excellent shape and always have been.
Stop lying.
I am not overweight and I have no joint pain or physical issues whatsoever.
You need elevated heels to dig your heels into soft slippery ground for traction because you have lost range of motion due to a shortened calf and Achilles tendon from a lifetime of wearing elevated heels. Your body mass is shifted in a way that puts acute strain on your knees and this will cause them to wear out much faster. You also cannot perform a proper squat form, which further accelerates strain on the knees and also your lower back. Your body will be noticeably damaged by your late 30s and basically handicapped by your 50s, whereas otherwise you could have made it to over 70 with few issues other than diminished stamina.
see:
Every one of your posts in this thread demonstrate that you're a complete idiot who has no idea what you're talking about.
I bet you have to manually pull your pants up with your hands every two minutes
Since you’re making the accusation that someone is fat, you now have to post body with a time stamp. It’s not up to him to prove your accusation false, it’s up to you to prove you’re even worthy of making the accusation in the first place.
That's actually another reason why heels are popular that I didn't mention. I have never been self conscious about height so this isn't something I think about.
>another pseudo science thread to trick gullible anons
Never change. Shoes with heels won't make your spine look like a pretzel.
If you're willing to sacrifice your Achilles tendon you can save your spine. But something has to go when you change the posture your body is designed for.
>designed for
Or evolved for, right Charles Darwin sisters?
Whichever you want to believe. Intelligent design or millions of years of evolution. Either way, your entire skeletel and muscular systems depends upon very precise load bearing characteristics that are unique to every single joint and ligament you have. Anything you do to your feet affect your entire body. 11mm of elevation under your heel pivots your entire body forward at a 20 degree angle. This would cause you to fall over were it not for every single component of your muscular and skeletal systems adjusting to compensate by radically deviating from their normal function. Tendons that would only occasionally experience stress are now carrying your entire body weight full time. At first you don't notice, but eventually you will, and hopefully you have excellent health insurance when that happens.
>wearing boots that aren't completely flat?? better be prepared for your entire body to go to shit!
My boy you change the "posture your body is designed for" when you do any activity. Are you made out of straw?
This just happens to be his preferred flavour of neglible shit to be afraid of.
If you aren't constantly frustrated with your clothing negatively impacting your body mechanics then you don't go outside. Maybe you sit in a tree stand for a few hours a year or something.
>If you aren't constantly frustrated with your clothing negatively impacting your body mechanics then you don't go outside.
No, that's just a -you- thing. I'd talk to an expert about that.
You're not doing any kind of serious off-trail stuff if you haven't encountered these issues. Certainly not with a rifle in hand.
I spend weeks at a time with a rifle in my hand in NZ mountains. I've done so I'm both minimal boots and normal boots. The minimal boots are great but they require a shit load more work from my lower leg muscles which eventually get tired, as soon as I'm tired then im in the fricking danger zone real bad. They also have no heel lug so less grip and they also are sketchy as hell in loose rocks abs amoung slippery roots.
However they are lovely to feel the ground texture with. The light weight is nice. They are good for stalking and give you nice blood flow.
Real boots have their own downsides and upsides. The upsides bring they're a lot better at letting you relax your lower leg which means you can last longer and ultimately be more stable. The more relaxed the foot is the better. Heel lugs are fricking dope for grip, that's why they're still on boots not because they're a layover from horse riding days, they have a very practical purpose. If your knees hurt, built stronger vmo muscles.
You aren't doing one specific activity for 90% of your waking hours other than standing and walking.
>i just stand and walk around all day
NPC detected. What quest do you have to give me?
Flat shoes absolutely punish your archiles tendons on hills. Your body wasn't even designed to live past 40
someone should tell all those elite marathon runners who cover more ground in a week than OP has in his lifetime. They're dead meat because none of them wear zero drop shoes
Do marathon runners have knee problems later in life?
They’re less prone to knee problems than regular people.
Yes. My wife is one such person. She had no hyalene cartilage remaining in her knees after a successful full marathon and long distance racing career. Through a combination of painful electrical and deep vibrational stimulation, deep tissue massage, and supplementation, she grew anhyalene cartilage (scar tissue) at a depth of 1-2mm. My wife was then walking normally and without pain in about two years treatment time. Unfortunately, the stubborn ditz is back to running full and half marathons again after all we went through together. I guess the endorphins are more valued than health and comfort. Women are imbeciles.
your wife was an elite marathoner?
I mostly hike barefoot. I like to think I have stronger legs and better stamina, but I haven't actually tested it yet.
Oi you autist cone back and post some more I've never laughed so hard on PrepHole in my life
Modern shoes were designed by a moron based on the assumption that people should walk with their heels hitting the ground first. They added a shit ton of padding below the heel which encourages this style of walking. This new design of shoe spread like a plague and now we all walk with a fricked up gait because of it.
Walking with the balls of your feet first is a far more natural way to walk and allows you to dampen the impact of your step far more than any ridiculously designed shoe sole ever could.