He 162 wasn't a wonderweapon, it was an emergency fighter. It's just neat because it had a jet engine despite being made of horse glue and plywood, but by the time the He 162 was in production everyone had jets.
>by the time the He 162 was in production everyone had jets.
lol
>He 162
Probably the worst jet of history. The only things worse was the Hellmut rocket plane, the flying BAKA and the prototypes of Argus pulsejets manned v-1, the "germaninc scream" flying cringe.
>Probably the worst jet of history.
nu/k/ is literally mentally moronic
at this time america is relying on britain for jet technology and cant even field the p59 because its performance is inferior to piston engine aircraft. he162 was good fighter on the contrary.
>Test pilot Eric Brown of the Fleet Air Arm, who flew a record 486 different types of aircraft, said the He 162 had "the lightest and most effective aerodynamically balanced controls" he had experienced.[72]
>cant even field the p59
But the P80 was in service at this time, no? It didn't see combat but that was largely due to the Allies not needing to rush an emergency fighter into frontline duty.
the early p80s enter service sometime in 1945 after the war ends, but the early p80s arent that good either. there were some prototype p80s actually used in ww2, but it was very limited and only as recon, for operational testing.
11 months ago
Anonymous
My point is, comparing nations tech based on what they fielded during a war is a somewhat flawed method, because so many factors can influence what they're willing to push into service in what time frame. When there's more Allied fighters over a given German airbase than German planes flying over the entire country, it's not surprising that one side is content to iron out kinks in a new design before adopting it while the other is sending men up in acid-powered rockets. I'd also argue that mission requirements plays a role. If your design only needs to fly long enough to take down a couple bombers overhead, you can avoid making the performance sacrifices a longer-range design might.
11 months ago
Anonymous
they rushed the development of the p80 and couldnt get them in time. meanwhile germanys volksturm aircraft for children and grandpas have jet engines and ejector seats while other countries are struggling to get jet aircraft at all into the air. germany was ahead of the world in most technologies by 10 years.
11 months ago
Anonymous
>ahead of the world in most technologies
The only thing I can think of the Germans having a legitimate edge in is rocketry. Every other field the allies mogged the shit out of Germany.
>small arms/stamping
allies had as much stamped metal use as the axis did
axis just resorted to it sooner due to desperation
>guided munitions(fritzx)
allies had their own guided munitions
while only deployed later, the bat bomb was much more advanced than the fritz
>Tanks
axis tanks could be larger but they were not more technologically advanced
the allies if anything, were able to cast much larger objects than the axis, resulting in them having fully cast turrets while the axis often struggled to cast enough cupolas
>production jet fighters
allies also had jet fighters
axis were just more desperate to field them due to the bomber campaign
a short ranged, high speed fighter was not exactly a priority for the allies
Real WonderWaffen: French artillery of the Desk brothers in the 100 years War. Stupid backward Angles bringing bows and arrows in a gun fight kek
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jean_Bureau
>He 162
Probably the worst jet of history. The only things worse was the Hellmut rocket plane, the flying BAKA and the prototypes of Argus pulsejets manned v-1, the "germaninc scream" flying cringe.
>Or were they ever used in a practical way?
the most practical "wonder weapons" were the ones that bordered on the banal, not like the jets or maus
like, for example, the proximity fuze
believed to be impossible by pre-war technicians because it would require a vacuum tube to survive the stress of being launched out of a gun, essentially getting a light bulb to survive a hydraulic press
but the americans and brits managed to do it anyways creating the first smart artillery shell
by making the vacuum tube impossibly small, it would experience less force from acceleration
and the subsequently packing it in wax to further absorb the shock
the shell could not just swat planes out of the sky more easily, by allowing near-misses to count instead of just direct hits, but changed how artillery could be used in combat
instead of trying to set a timer to detonate at a certain height or setting it to detonate after it bounced along the ground, you could simply set the range on the shell directly
this substantially reduced the protection afforded by trenches and forests
Proxy meme fuse is overstated. By burgers estismation it doubled effectiveness. While it's god it's not meta breaching.
With AA fuses there is even more hilarious things. Germans during WWII with calculations, trials and battle trials found than contact fuse is much more effective than timed air burst fuse and basically everyone used AA wrong. And similar to proxy fuse effect can be achieved by just using contact fuse.
>Proxy meme fuse is overstated.
its understated, if anything
>. By burgers estismation it doubled effectiveness. While it's god it's not meta breaching.
more than doubled, it quadrupled
number of rounds needed to down a plane
from 1200 down to about 200
>Germans during WWII with calculations, trials and battle trials found than contact fuse is much more effective than timed air burst fuse and basically everyone used AA wrong. And similar to proxy fuse effect can be achieved by just using contact fuse.
contact fuse is basically useless for AA, timed fuze required clairvoyance to set properly
without proximity fuzes you either threw up a barrage set to a specific distance or fired as many rounds as possible and hoped for the best
there is no exaggeration possible when it comes to VT fuze effectiveness
>contact fuse is basically useless for AA
Contact fuse is the best fuse for AA. It seems counterintuitive but this how it is.
During WWII German AA doubled and trippled effectiveness (depending on caliber) when they used dual (timed air burst plus contact) fuse comparing to air burst only. But only in the end of the war they released that air burst option is just plain harmful. Yes this idea is extremely heretical so people are not aware about this. Everybody used AA wrong.
Nazi Germany is basically the only example in history where a country had advanced science and manufacturing and lost anyway, so they're the home of all the "Wonderwaffen," i.e. things that were actually great but there was no opportunity to roll out enough of them to make a difference
America is the country that builds the biggest warship in history and then builds it 11 more times, designs the deadliest and most advanced tank and then shits out 5,000 of them, etc. This kind of vulgar mass production is great for logistics but not for "Sovl," the same way nobody can bring themselves to truly care that every 747 is one of the largest planes ever made or every third-rate NFL team has a stadium bigger than the Colosseum
Even the Iowa class battleships, the greatest of all time, yet none of them ever became a legend like the doomed and futile Bismarck or Yamato
>Nazi Germany is basically the only example in history where a country had advanced science and manufacturing and lost anyway
United States (Vietnam, Afghanistan, arguably Iraq)
Soviet Union (Afghanistan)
Great Britain, France, the Netherlands, Belgium (various post-WWII wars of decolonization)
Imperial Japan (closest country to developing an atomic bomb in 1945 apart from the United States, had objectively more advanced submarines than the Western Allies)
Confederate States of America (proved surprisingly resourceful in the naval war, building the first submarine to be successfully used in combat, also managed to build the largest powderworks on the planet in the 19th Century and made more effective use of railroads during the first stage of the war)
>Japan: objectively more advanced submarines than the Western Allies
Would you be willing to quantify this position? Im hoping you're not referring to that shitshow that was the I-300.
Actually I was referring to the I-400 class, largest submarines ever built until we started putting nuclear reactors in them and they were able to carry and launch multiple aircraft, something that even modern submarines can't do (albeit mainly due to a lack of need for such capability). Thankfully, the Japanese only completed three of them before the war's end.
The Japanese were also able to successfully use their submarines in concert with other branches of service in conducting long-range (albeit almost totally consequential) strikes as far as the American West Coast. It didn't win them the war obviously but it also demonstrates that Japan was a dangerous opponent still capable of pulling off amazing feats even as it was slowly being strangled to death in a hopeless war of attrition.
>I was referring to the I-400
Oh no. That's what I meant to type, the sub I was hoping and praying you weren't referring to. The I-400s were trash, for the same reason that so many hybrid ship concepts failed: they compromised their ability to perform one role in an attempt to do the other poorly. In order to carry 3 floatplanes the I-400 sacrificed nearly everything needed to be a good submarine. The idea of a sub with self-supplying air scouting sounds really useful, but it doesn't play out that way. >even modern submarines can't do
Again, no reason for it. >The Japanese were also able to successfully use their submarines in conducting long-range (albeit almost totally consequential(sic)) strikes as far as the American West Coast
And the Germans did that on the East coast, but utilized supply submarines to extend the range of their medium-range subs, preserving their combat performance.
Also, it's a minor thing but what do you mean with >in concert with other branches of service
Which services are you talking about?
Most of these post WW2 excursions were doomed to fail because the civil populations was „protected“. In WW2 nobody gave a frick, and had Country X simply killed most inhabitants of Y the results could have been very different.
>Nazi Germany is basically the only example in history where a country had advanced science and manufacturing and lost anyway
Except they didn't really. Germany was more advanced in a handful of meme weapons (rockets, cruise missiles, extremely big tanks) that had a limited effect on the outcome of the war. The only 2 actually highly advanced and potentially war winning techs Germany had were Magnetic influence mines and Lorenz based radio navigation but Britain literally managed to fully backwards engineer both of those techs within the first 6 months of the war and add them to the massive list of Allied war winning tech like:
>the atomic bomb >the VT fused shell >centimetric radar (powerful airborne radars and good gun laying radars destroyed the U-boats, the surface raiders and made strategic bombing more accurate) >direction finding equipment that could rapidly get a bearing on any enemy transmitters and destroy/sink them >all the other simple but effective ASW tricks the allies used to obliterate the german uboats >making the first modern electric computer just so they read all of Germany's encrypted messages >Gee and other much improved navigation systems >actually usable bridging equipment >escort carriers >loads of electronic warfare and countermeasures like chaff >Better bombers both heavy and light >droptanks >bunker busters >being able to air drop large numbers of supplies for partisans, encircled troops and dutch kanker kinders >better fire control computers >better damage control
probably more my tired brain can't remember.
As far as manufacturing German industry was very poorly optimized in the early war so they couldn't outproduce Britain and once they embraced Speerian autism it was too late. Also their logistics was bad from the design/factory to the pferds transporting it to the frontline.
>jews are known for being hard math nerds and efficient merchants >have them exiled/expelled/dachau'd >the ones that escape relocate to allied nations >the allies beats the axis to shit in the science and logistic fields
gee willikers wonder how anyone could have expected such outcome
Not at the late point and scale of production, but in terms of what would happen if there was an armistice on the Eastern Front, almost certainly catastrophic. With Martin Borman maintaining backchannels to Moscow and the lull that allowed the Battle of the Bulge, such a thing wasn't totally off the table.
My understanding was that all Soviet-German diplomatic talks stopped after the failure of Operation Citadel and any hope of a separate peace essentially nonexistent from that point forward.
Have a few questions about wunderwaffe but here is a story my grandad told me a few months about his experience growing up during the blitz
>Be my grandad, born 1933, grew up in uk during ww1 >Playing in the middle of nowhere in some building site >Go over to tall wall that's apart of some building site or something >Sit on wall having fun ect >One second he hears a funny sound, quite noticeable >Sound cuts out >Whatever.jpg >just continues sitting on wall playing with friends >My grandad looks up and sees a v-1 flying bomb fly over quite close >It flies over and lands quite close in a field exploding
I love my grandad
Also, does anyone have any information on the goliath tracked mine, the haunebu UFO or the Flakmine V7 'Flakmine'
The pulsejet cruise missile was misused (it should have been used on English airfields instead of cities) but American Army Air Force generals post-war considered it one of the most cost-effective weapons of the war.
He 162 wasn't a wonderweapon, it was an emergency fighter. It's just neat because it had a jet engine despite being made of horse glue and plywood, but by the time the He 162 was in production everyone had jets.
>by the time the He 162 was in production everyone had jets.
lol
>Probably the worst jet of history.
nu/k/ is literally mentally moronic
Ok wise guy, why don’t you educate us?
at this time america is relying on britain for jet technology and cant even field the p59 because its performance is inferior to piston engine aircraft. he162 was good fighter on the contrary.
>Test pilot Eric Brown of the Fleet Air Arm, who flew a record 486 different types of aircraft, said the He 162 had "the lightest and most effective aerodynamically balanced controls" he had experienced.[72]
Thank you for educating us
Pity it fell apart if you tried using the rudder.
>cant even field the p59
But the P80 was in service at this time, no? It didn't see combat but that was largely due to the Allies not needing to rush an emergency fighter into frontline duty.
the early p80s enter service sometime in 1945 after the war ends, but the early p80s arent that good either. there were some prototype p80s actually used in ww2, but it was very limited and only as recon, for operational testing.
My point is, comparing nations tech based on what they fielded during a war is a somewhat flawed method, because so many factors can influence what they're willing to push into service in what time frame. When there's more Allied fighters over a given German airbase than German planes flying over the entire country, it's not surprising that one side is content to iron out kinks in a new design before adopting it while the other is sending men up in acid-powered rockets. I'd also argue that mission requirements plays a role. If your design only needs to fly long enough to take down a couple bombers overhead, you can avoid making the performance sacrifices a longer-range design might.
they rushed the development of the p80 and couldnt get them in time. meanwhile germanys volksturm aircraft for children and grandpas have jet engines and ejector seats while other countries are struggling to get jet aircraft at all into the air. germany was ahead of the world in most technologies by 10 years.
>ahead of the world in most technologies
The only thing I can think of the Germans having a legitimate edge in is rocketry. Every other field the allies mogged the shit out of Germany.
>small arms/stamping (stg44, fg42 etc)
>guided munitions(fritzx)
>Tanks
>production jet fighters
>small arms/stamping
allies had as much stamped metal use as the axis did
axis just resorted to it sooner due to desperation
>guided munitions(fritzx)
allies had their own guided munitions
while only deployed later, the bat bomb was much more advanced than the fritz
>Tanks
axis tanks could be larger but they were not more technologically advanced
the allies if anything, were able to cast much larger objects than the axis, resulting in them having fully cast turrets while the axis often struggled to cast enough cupolas
>production jet fighters
allies also had jet fighters
axis were just more desperate to field them due to the bomber campaign
a short ranged, high speed fighter was not exactly a priority for the allies
https://www.nevingtonwarmuseum.com/the-x-7-rotkaumlppchen.html
>small arms (stg44)
>tanks (panther)(king tiger)
>aircraft (bf109)(jet fighters AND bombers)
>rockets (V2)
The only technological advantage that the US had over germany was in nuclear research.
HE162 was also great since it could take off and land on unpaved runways without worrying about sucking trash into the engine.
it also had one of the first ejection seats
I believe
I want to believe
Real WonderWaffen: French artillery of the Desk brothers in the 100 years War. Stupid backward Angles bringing bows and arrows in a gun fight kek
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jean_Bureau
>He 162
Probably the worst jet of history. The only things worse was the Hellmut rocket plane, the flying BAKA and the prototypes of Argus pulsejets manned v-1, the "germaninc scream" flying cringe.
they tried to use them for practical purposes, but in those attempts they soon found out they were meme weapons
The Jet engine is a Wunderwaffen and still is.
>Or were they ever used in a practical way?
the most practical "wonder weapons" were the ones that bordered on the banal, not like the jets or maus
like, for example, the proximity fuze
believed to be impossible by pre-war technicians because it would require a vacuum tube to survive the stress of being launched out of a gun, essentially getting a light bulb to survive a hydraulic press
but the americans and brits managed to do it anyways creating the first smart artillery shell
by making the vacuum tube impossibly small, it would experience less force from acceleration
and the subsequently packing it in wax to further absorb the shock
the shell could not just swat planes out of the sky more easily, by allowing near-misses to count instead of just direct hits, but changed how artillery could be used in combat
instead of trying to set a timer to detonate at a certain height or setting it to detonate after it bounced along the ground, you could simply set the range on the shell directly
this substantially reduced the protection afforded by trenches and forests
Also the Jerry can
Proxy meme fuse is overstated. By burgers estismation it doubled effectiveness. While it's god it's not meta breaching.
With AA fuses there is even more hilarious things. Germans during WWII with calculations, trials and battle trials found than contact fuse is much more effective than timed air burst fuse and basically everyone used AA wrong. And similar to proxy fuse effect can be achieved by just using contact fuse.
>Proxy meme fuse is overstated.
its understated, if anything
>. By burgers estismation it doubled effectiveness. While it's god it's not meta breaching.
more than doubled, it quadrupled
number of rounds needed to down a plane
from 1200 down to about 200
>Germans during WWII with calculations, trials and battle trials found than contact fuse is much more effective than timed air burst fuse and basically everyone used AA wrong. And similar to proxy fuse effect can be achieved by just using contact fuse.
contact fuse is basically useless for AA, timed fuze required clairvoyance to set properly
without proximity fuzes you either threw up a barrage set to a specific distance or fired as many rounds as possible and hoped for the best
there is no exaggeration possible when it comes to VT fuze effectiveness
>more than doubled
Pic
>contact fuse is basically useless for AA
Contact fuse is the best fuse for AA. It seems counterintuitive but this how it is.
During WWII German AA doubled and trippled effectiveness (depending on caliber) when they used dual (timed air burst plus contact) fuse comparing to air burst only. But only in the end of the war they released that air burst option is just plain harmful. Yes this idea is extremely heretical so people are not aware about this. Everybody used AA wrong.
germans struggled with airburst because they had mechanical fuses not proximity fuses
Nazi Germany is basically the only example in history where a country had advanced science and manufacturing and lost anyway, so they're the home of all the "Wonderwaffen," i.e. things that were actually great but there was no opportunity to roll out enough of them to make a difference
America is the country that builds the biggest warship in history and then builds it 11 more times, designs the deadliest and most advanced tank and then shits out 5,000 of them, etc. This kind of vulgar mass production is great for logistics but not for "Sovl," the same way nobody can bring themselves to truly care that every 747 is one of the largest planes ever made or every third-rate NFL team has a stadium bigger than the Colosseum
Even the Iowa class battleships, the greatest of all time, yet none of them ever became a legend like the doomed and futile Bismarck or Yamato
>wunderwaffen
>actually great
A lot of them were shit and wouldn’t have made a difference even if they were fielded in large numbers.
STG-44 though
ME-262
>Nazi Germany is basically the only example in history where a country had advanced science and manufacturing and lost anyway
United States (Vietnam, Afghanistan, arguably Iraq)
Soviet Union (Afghanistan)
Great Britain, France, the Netherlands, Belgium (various post-WWII wars of decolonization)
Imperial Japan (closest country to developing an atomic bomb in 1945 apart from the United States, had objectively more advanced submarines than the Western Allies)
Confederate States of America (proved surprisingly resourceful in the naval war, building the first submarine to be successfully used in combat, also managed to build the largest powderworks on the planet in the 19th Century and made more effective use of railroads during the first stage of the war)
>Japan: objectively more advanced submarines than the Western Allies
Would you be willing to quantify this position? Im hoping you're not referring to that shitshow that was the I-300.
Actually I was referring to the I-400 class, largest submarines ever built until we started putting nuclear reactors in them and they were able to carry and launch multiple aircraft, something that even modern submarines can't do (albeit mainly due to a lack of need for such capability). Thankfully, the Japanese only completed three of them before the war's end.
The Japanese were also able to successfully use their submarines in concert with other branches of service in conducting long-range (albeit almost totally consequential) strikes as far as the American West Coast. It didn't win them the war obviously but it also demonstrates that Japan was a dangerous opponent still capable of pulling off amazing feats even as it was slowly being strangled to death in a hopeless war of attrition.
>I was referring to the I-400
Oh no. That's what I meant to type, the sub I was hoping and praying you weren't referring to. The I-400s were trash, for the same reason that so many hybrid ship concepts failed: they compromised their ability to perform one role in an attempt to do the other poorly. In order to carry 3 floatplanes the I-400 sacrificed nearly everything needed to be a good submarine. The idea of a sub with self-supplying air scouting sounds really useful, but it doesn't play out that way.
>even modern submarines can't do
Again, no reason for it.
>The Japanese were also able to successfully use their submarines in conducting long-range (albeit almost totally consequential(sic)) strikes as far as the American West Coast
And the Germans did that on the East coast, but utilized supply submarines to extend the range of their medium-range subs, preserving their combat performance.
Also, it's a minor thing but what do you mean with
>in concert with other branches of service
Which services are you talking about?
To bad we sank em.
Probably talking about the I-200 class (Sen Taka Dai).
>implying Russia has the technical expertise to manufacture wheels
Most of these post WW2 excursions were doomed to fail because the civil populations was „protected“. In WW2 nobody gave a frick, and had Country X simply killed most inhabitants of Y the results could have been very different.
>Nazi Germany is basically the only example in history where a country had advanced science and manufacturing and lost anyway
Except they didn't really. Germany was more advanced in a handful of meme weapons (rockets, cruise missiles, extremely big tanks) that had a limited effect on the outcome of the war. The only 2 actually highly advanced and potentially war winning techs Germany had were Magnetic influence mines and Lorenz based radio navigation but Britain literally managed to fully backwards engineer both of those techs within the first 6 months of the war and add them to the massive list of Allied war winning tech like:
>the atomic bomb
>the VT fused shell
>centimetric radar (powerful airborne radars and good gun laying radars destroyed the U-boats, the surface raiders and made strategic bombing more accurate)
>direction finding equipment that could rapidly get a bearing on any enemy transmitters and destroy/sink them
>all the other simple but effective ASW tricks the allies used to obliterate the german uboats
>making the first modern electric computer just so they read all of Germany's encrypted messages
>Gee and other much improved navigation systems
>actually usable bridging equipment
>escort carriers
>loads of electronic warfare and countermeasures like chaff
>Better bombers both heavy and light
>droptanks
>bunker busters
>being able to air drop large numbers of supplies for partisans, encircled troops and dutch kanker kinders
>better fire control computers
>better damage control
probably more my tired brain can't remember.
As far as manufacturing German industry was very poorly optimized in the early war so they couldn't outproduce Britain and once they embraced Speerian autism it was too late. Also their logistics was bad from the design/factory to the pferds transporting it to the frontline.
>jews are known for being hard math nerds and efficient merchants
>have them exiled/expelled/dachau'd
>the ones that escape relocate to allied nations
>the allies beats the axis to shit in the science and logistic fields
gee willikers wonder how anyone could have expected such outcome
Not at the late point and scale of production, but in terms of what would happen if there was an armistice on the Eastern Front, almost certainly catastrophic. With Martin Borman maintaining backchannels to Moscow and the lull that allowed the Battle of the Bulge, such a thing wasn't totally off the table.
My understanding was that all Soviet-German diplomatic talks stopped after the failure of Operation Citadel and any hope of a separate peace essentially nonexistent from that point forward.
I don't care about facts, or anything of that sort. I love this little zippy death machine. No one can take my love away.
Have a few questions about wunderwaffe but here is a story my grandad told me a few months about his experience growing up during the blitz
>Be my grandad, born 1933, grew up in uk during ww1
>Playing in the middle of nowhere in some building site
>Go over to tall wall that's apart of some building site or something
>Sit on wall having fun ect
>One second he hears a funny sound, quite noticeable
>Sound cuts out
>Whatever.jpg
>just continues sitting on wall playing with friends
>My grandad looks up and sees a v-1 flying bomb fly over quite close
>It flies over and lands quite close in a field exploding
I love my grandad
Also, does anyone have any information on the goliath tracked mine, the haunebu UFO or the Flakmine V7 'Flakmine'
just memes
The pulsejet cruise missile was misused (it should have been used on English airfields instead of cities) but American Army Air Force generals post-war considered it one of the most cost-effective weapons of the war.
Some were