I'd be more interested in 5.7 Steel/brass hyrbid like SIG is doing with their 6.8x51 so you could pump 5.7 pressure up to 75k PSI or more.
You don't really need weight savings in a handgun, i'd rather have a faster bullet that can penetrate armor more effectively than to have some slightly lighter bullets with the same performance as the normal rounds.
>You don't really need weight savings in a handgun
when you're looking at a soldier's total kit weight as a whole you're also looking at the handgun, as it's a straight up improvement over brass i figured why not? >pressure up to 75k PSI or more
the three piece ammo with high pressures is certainly good out of shorter barrels but I'm concerned about how a handgun might cycle with pressures that high, not to mention how bulky the chamber would need to be
Almost no one is issued a handgun. So again, it's a moot point, the 0.5-1lbs you MIGHT save on total ammo is just not fricking worth it.
For a rifle where you can shave off 10lbs+ of ammo, or an MG where you're shaving off a ton of weight, go right ahead. But for a fricking pistol? Waste of development money.
>development money
It's already developed
There is no reason not to save weight when you have the option to, not to mention plastic cases burn powder more efficiently as they don't absorb heat.
Black person, there is no such thing as a Berreta M57, you'd have to develop that.
You can't just chamber a gun in a new caliber and keep everything the same and expect it to actually function it would still take months if not years to properly tweak and develop the gun correctly so it feeds reliably, ejects reliably, and cycles even on slightly underpowered loads, etc, etc.
You're not doing that for free or overnight.
Again, you're FAR better off redesigning with the SIG steel/brass hybrid as at least that would increase your armor penetration ability of the 5.7 cartridge.
A couple ounces of weight saved from the ammo in a handgun means frickall.
>Berreta M57, you'd have to develop that.
we were talking specifically about the case, see
yeah the cartridges are the same dimensions so it would be backward compatible, same as everything else TV makes.
>new caliber
see
yeah the cartridges are the same dimensions so it would be backward compatible, same as everything else TV makes.
>A couple ounces of weight saved from the ammo in a handgun means frickall
There is no reason not to save weight when you have the option to, not to mention plastic cases burn powder more efficiently as they don't absorb heat.
2 years ago
Anonymous
Black person, again, the Beretta was NOT developed for 5.7 that's the whole point of the thread.
Are you now suggesting we just use the FN Five-seveN or the Ruger57 instead??
And again, frick off moronic chud, a few ounces of extra weight means fricking NOTHING when 98% of soldiers are never handed out a handgun to begin with, the only people regularly getting handguns are gate guards, MPs, and some leadership positions. Your average grunt wont touch a handgun outside of training.
I have no problem suggesting plastic TVC ammo for rifles and MGs, but you're just a god damn moron for even mentioning it for handguns without first tackling the ACTUAL issue (rifles & MGs) where this would actually fricking matter.
2 years ago
Anonymous
>you have to develop a handgun that doesn't exist
yes that is implicit.
You are fuming and I have no idea why, you have a very fragile mind. >a few ounces of extra weight means
There is no reason not to save weight when you have the option to, not to mention plastic cases burn powder more efficiently as they don't absorb heat.
2 years ago
Anonymous
jim at the front of his squad might not care about the 3 ounces saved, but CPT Tom flying a C17 loaded with pistol ammo for Jim's and three other companies would very much care
2 years ago
Anonymous
>you have to develop a handgun that doesn't exist
yes that is implicit.
You are fuming and I have no idea why, you have a very fragile mind. >a few ounces of extra weight means
There is no reason not to save weight when you have the option to, not to mention plastic cases burn powder more efficiently as they don't absorb heat.
>plastic cases burn powder more efficiently as they don't absorb heat.
That's what I don't get with this plastic case debacle. Isn't heat evacuation necessary? It's certainly not a problem for handguns, but in an MG it could be. How would you keep chamber temperatures from getting high enough to cause cook-offs?
2 years ago
Anonymous
It's a thermal barrier that prevents the chamber from getting hot in the first place.
2 years ago
Anonymous
Maybe, but I still have some doubts. You cannot put it in simple terms because there are several factors to consider. How well will it reduce the heat flux to the chamber through the case? How much will it lower heat evacuation with the spent cases? How much of the flux is actually coming through the brass case vs heat transfer from the barrel? All hard to answer questions without at least some modeling and it would depend on the exact case material. Maybe it's solvable or maybe it's not and you will have to fix it some other way.
2 years ago
Anonymous
True Velocity cases have been physically tested in miniguns. They can fire about 40% longer before hitting the same chamber and barrel temps as brass. They can also use 6-8% less powder because the energy goes into the gas pushing the bullet instead of escaping through the brass.
2 years ago
Anonymous
>how well will it reduce heat flux
much better than brass >how much will it lower heat evacuation
the heat goes down the barrel instead of being absorbed by the brass >how much of the heat flux is coming through the barrel
shiiieeet cuz I don't know, but I guess it's more what gets absorbed through the case and maybe a little something during extraction?
2 years ago
Anonymous
>heat evacuation
This is the wrong way to think about it.
Please understand I'm NOT saying you're stupid for thinking this. To think that a brass case removes heat from the system is NOT a stupid thing to assume because of course the case is hot so when you extract it that should mean you're removing heat from the system.
First of all start replacing the word heat with energy, it might help.
When a typical brass cased round is struck and ignited, some of the heat(energy) goes down the barrel to propel the bullet but not all of it. Some of the heat(energy) goes through the case and into the chamber.
When you use a case material that can't conduct heat(energy) easily (like what TV is using), all of the heat(energy) that would have gone through the case and into the chamber instead goes directly down the barrel. Because you're now funneling more of the heat(energy) down the barrel instead of into the chamber like with a brass casing, you can use a lower amount of rifle powder to reach the same exact ballistic figures as the equivalent brass cased cartridge.
Any amount of heat(energy) that enters the casing is heat(energy) wasted. In order to use powder efficiently you want to funnel as much of the heat(energy) down the barrel as possible.
much easier said than done with pressures that high. Not to mention you would get a massive fireball with painful recoil.. and for what? you won't be able to penetrate anything the standard 5.7 already can since you're working with such a small barrel length.
Sure that might be good in a submachine gun, but we're talking about a handgun here.
The standard operating pressures and ballistics of the 5.7x28 has proven itself to be effective.
>Striker fired
Garbage, why would you ever go backwards? >Bigger grip to accomodate 5.7x28
Why, when you can stuff .22 TCM in the same grip? When .22 TCM in TVC format would equal or improve conventional 5.7x28? >M9 in 5.7x28
The original Five-seveN was designed around it's not-quite-blowback, Glisenti-ish recoil principle. The short recoil system of the M9 would require a redesign with some form of accelerator to make that low impulse 5.7 work, so you're either adding useless weight or reducing functionality.
>A handgun without a gas system is not going to be able to handle that you fricking moron
Why not? Short recoil will absolutely work under high pressure if the recoil system is properly sized for the kinetic energy and momentum of the cartridge, that is to say, the locking surface is dimensioned correctly and the unlocking motion is properly controlled so that the case is not extracted under high pressure.
much easier said than done with pressures that high. Not to mention you would get a massive fireball with painful recoil.. and for what? you won't be able to penetrate anything the standard 5.7 already can since you're working with such a small barrel length.
>Not to mention you would get a massive fireball with painful recoil.. and for what?
Suppose it gets a 40 grain V-max up to P90 velocity, that would be a 40 grain projectile at just under 2000FPS. That is less kinetic energy and less momentum than bog standard 115 or 124 grain 9x19, which really don't have ''painful recoil'' in a 92 platform. Hell, mount a compensator on it for even more fireball - the added gas should really help reduce recoil.
They're all under 3000 fps from a 14 inch barrel. All of this back and forth about stopping power or overmatch is because m855 was designed with penetration in mind, and 5.56 works best in rifles when it's m193 out of a 20 inch barrel
If I want to use a striker fired gun I'd grab a glock, don't set this abomination before me. Berettas are smooth as oiled glass and have a great trigger, and you want me to give that up? I say no. Put the hammer back on it
Honestly 5.7 is pretty bad for a self defense cartridge, considering its weak wounding potential and being intended for intermediate ranges. Would rather take a 10mm Beretta that takes Glock 20 mags.
>Honestly 5.7 is pretty bad for a self defense cartridge
shall i post the pasta? >Would rather take a 10mm Beretta that takes Glock 20 mags.
Oh, you're just baiting poorly.
Yeah
I'd be more interested in 5.7 Steel/brass hyrbid like SIG is doing with their 6.8x51 so you could pump 5.7 pressure up to 75k PSI or more.
You don't really need weight savings in a handgun, i'd rather have a faster bullet that can penetrate armor more effectively than to have some slightly lighter bullets with the same performance as the normal rounds.
>You don't really need weight savings in a handgun
when you're looking at a soldier's total kit weight as a whole you're also looking at the handgun, as it's a straight up improvement over brass i figured why not?
>pressure up to 75k PSI or more
the three piece ammo with high pressures is certainly good out of shorter barrels but I'm concerned about how a handgun might cycle with pressures that high, not to mention how bulky the chamber would need to be
Almost no one is issued a handgun. So again, it's a moot point, the 0.5-1lbs you MIGHT save on total ammo is just not fricking worth it.
For a rifle where you can shave off 10lbs+ of ammo, or an MG where you're shaving off a ton of weight, go right ahead. But for a fricking pistol? Waste of development money.
>development money
It's already developed
There is no reason not to save weight when you have the option to, not to mention plastic cases burn powder more efficiently as they don't absorb heat.
Black person, there is no such thing as a Berreta M57, you'd have to develop that.
You can't just chamber a gun in a new caliber and keep everything the same and expect it to actually function it would still take months if not years to properly tweak and develop the gun correctly so it feeds reliably, ejects reliably, and cycles even on slightly underpowered loads, etc, etc.
You're not doing that for free or overnight.
Again, you're FAR better off redesigning with the SIG steel/brass hybrid as at least that would increase your armor penetration ability of the 5.7 cartridge.
A couple ounces of weight saved from the ammo in a handgun means frickall.
>Berreta M57, you'd have to develop that.
we were talking specifically about the case, see
>new caliber
see
>A couple ounces of weight saved from the ammo in a handgun means frickall
There is no reason not to save weight when you have the option to, not to mention plastic cases burn powder more efficiently as they don't absorb heat.
Black person, again, the Beretta was NOT developed for 5.7 that's the whole point of the thread.
Are you now suggesting we just use the FN Five-seveN or the Ruger57 instead??
And again, frick off moronic chud, a few ounces of extra weight means fricking NOTHING when 98% of soldiers are never handed out a handgun to begin with, the only people regularly getting handguns are gate guards, MPs, and some leadership positions. Your average grunt wont touch a handgun outside of training.
I have no problem suggesting plastic TVC ammo for rifles and MGs, but you're just a god damn moron for even mentioning it for handguns without first tackling the ACTUAL issue (rifles & MGs) where this would actually fricking matter.
>you have to develop a handgun that doesn't exist
yes that is implicit.
You are fuming and I have no idea why, you have a very fragile mind.
>a few ounces of extra weight means
There is no reason not to save weight when you have the option to, not to mention plastic cases burn powder more efficiently as they don't absorb heat.
jim at the front of his squad might not care about the 3 ounces saved, but CPT Tom flying a C17 loaded with pistol ammo for Jim's and three other companies would very much care
>plastic cases burn powder more efficiently as they don't absorb heat.
That's what I don't get with this plastic case debacle. Isn't heat evacuation necessary? It's certainly not a problem for handguns, but in an MG it could be. How would you keep chamber temperatures from getting high enough to cause cook-offs?
It's a thermal barrier that prevents the chamber from getting hot in the first place.
Maybe, but I still have some doubts. You cannot put it in simple terms because there are several factors to consider. How well will it reduce the heat flux to the chamber through the case? How much will it lower heat evacuation with the spent cases? How much of the flux is actually coming through the brass case vs heat transfer from the barrel? All hard to answer questions without at least some modeling and it would depend on the exact case material. Maybe it's solvable or maybe it's not and you will have to fix it some other way.
True Velocity cases have been physically tested in miniguns. They can fire about 40% longer before hitting the same chamber and barrel temps as brass. They can also use 6-8% less powder because the energy goes into the gas pushing the bullet instead of escaping through the brass.
>how well will it reduce heat flux
much better than brass
>how much will it lower heat evacuation
the heat goes down the barrel instead of being absorbed by the brass
>how much of the heat flux is coming through the barrel
shiiieeet cuz I don't know, but I guess it's more what gets absorbed through the case and maybe a little something during extraction?
>heat evacuation
This is the wrong way to think about it.
Please understand I'm NOT saying you're stupid for thinking this. To think that a brass case removes heat from the system is NOT a stupid thing to assume because of course the case is hot so when you extract it that should mean you're removing heat from the system.
First of all start replacing the word heat with energy, it might help.
When a typical brass cased round is struck and ignited, some of the heat(energy) goes down the barrel to propel the bullet but not all of it. Some of the heat(energy) goes through the case and into the chamber.
When you use a case material that can't conduct heat(energy) easily (like what TV is using), all of the heat(energy) that would have gone through the case and into the chamber instead goes directly down the barrel. Because you're now funneling more of the heat(energy) down the barrel instead of into the chamber like with a brass casing, you can use a lower amount of rifle powder to reach the same exact ballistic figures as the equivalent brass cased cartridge.
Any amount of heat(energy) that enters the casing is heat(energy) wasted. In order to use powder efficiently you want to funnel as much of the heat(energy) down the barrel as possible.
pic unrelated
The govt doesn't have to pay for it unless they buy it, if they don't they just leave Beretta holding the bag.
A handgun without a gas system is not going to be able to handle that you fricking moron
>a handgun that isn't designed for higher pressure wont be able to handle the higher pressure
no shit, that's why I said they need to redesign it handle the higher pressure.
It's not fricking magic or rocket surgery.
much easier said than done with pressures that high. Not to mention you would get a massive fireball with painful recoil.. and for what? you won't be able to penetrate anything the standard 5.7 already can since you're working with such a small barrel length.
well ideally you'd be using the P90 if you were ACTUALLY going to design a high powered version of the 5.7 cartridge.
~10.5" barrel length would certainly help things out.
Sure that might be good in a submachine gun, but we're talking about a handgun here.
The standard operating pressures and ballistics of the 5.7x28 has proven itself to be effective.
>Striker fired
Garbage, why would you ever go backwards?
>Bigger grip to accomodate 5.7x28
Why, when you can stuff .22 TCM in the same grip? When .22 TCM in TVC format would equal or improve conventional 5.7x28?
>M9 in 5.7x28
The original Five-seveN was designed around it's not-quite-blowback, Glisenti-ish recoil principle. The short recoil system of the M9 would require a redesign with some form of accelerator to make that low impulse 5.7 work, so you're either adding useless weight or reducing functionality.
>A handgun without a gas system is not going to be able to handle that you fricking moron
Why not? Short recoil will absolutely work under high pressure if the recoil system is properly sized for the kinetic energy and momentum of the cartridge, that is to say, the locking surface is dimensioned correctly and the unlocking motion is properly controlled so that the case is not extracted under high pressure.
>Not to mention you would get a massive fireball with painful recoil.. and for what?
Suppose it gets a 40 grain V-max up to P90 velocity, that would be a 40 grain projectile at just under 2000FPS. That is less kinetic energy and less momentum than bog standard 115 or 124 grain 9x19, which really don't have ''painful recoil'' in a 92 platform. Hell, mount a compensator on it for even more fireball - the added gas should really help reduce recoil.
Why don't they do that with 5.56 so we can shoot 3000+fps from m4 length carbines?
M855A1 is already going about 3000fps from an m4
Throwing a ton of excess pressure at it would I guess kick it up to 3300-3500+ fps though
They're all under 3000 fps from a 14 inch barrel. All of this back and forth about stopping power or overmatch is because m855 was designed with penetration in mind, and 5.56 works best in rifles when it's m193 out of a 20 inch barrel
M855a1, not m855.
M855a1 is the 3rd gen hot shit, not painted on green tip.
Yes, M855A1 is like 2970fps, it's essentially 3000fps for all intents and purposes in this discussion.
quibbling over less than 50fps is moronic.
Can it shoot regular 5.7?
yeah the cartridges are the same dimensions so it would be backward compatible, same as everything else TV makes.
>Plastic case
Fricking why?
so you can introduce microplastics into your enemy's ground soil, of course.
Needs a depleted uranium penetrator as well.
>a 92 with an even larger grip
Xd
tiny handed little b***h boy
>striker
>slide safety/dewienerer
Give me a hammer you fricking cuckold
This anon is correct, may he bear many successful children
Probably not, but it would be cool.
NEW CARTRIDGE JUST DROPPED!
>new
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FN_5.7%C3%9728mm
Mk2 ftw
I'll buy any Beretta. I'm Poor and want the m9a3 SO fricking bad
Leave it DA/SA instead of striker fired and I'd say yes
Yeah, why frick with a good thing? The M9A4 is great.
people seem to fricking hate hammers for whatever reason and i'm not sure why.
What was the cause for this huge shift to striker fired handguns?
I hate people who hate hammers.
>What was the cause for this huge shift to striker fired handguns?
Glock.
No
dumbest fricking thread. at least it's better than the never ending ukraine spam.
no is poop colored
It's the same gun as the 92FS
It says its striker fired.
Because the gun in the OP is originally isn't striker fired
wot
if you make the cases 3d printable (even if it's out of a very expensive filament) - yeah
I would if you change the caliber to not gay and the gun to not tan garbage.
>striker fired
Ew, no thanks
NO FRICK YOU Black person
If I want to use a striker fired gun I'd grab a glock, don't set this abomination before me. Berettas are smooth as oiled glass and have a great trigger, and you want me to give that up? I say no. Put the hammer back on it
Px4 storm in 5.7
MY DICK
Bricks are cheaper at Home Depot, so no.
>Striker fired
The frick is wrong with mushy trigger glocktards making every gun shitty
Would the plastic round be more or less expensive than 5.7 is right now? Because I'd rather be shooting 44mag if I'm paying a dollar a shot.
>mulatto FDE
no thanks
>Striker fired
No gay
Honestly 5.7 is pretty bad for a self defense cartridge, considering its weak wounding potential and being intended for intermediate ranges. Would rather take a 10mm Beretta that takes Glock 20 mags.
>Honestly 5.7 is pretty bad for a self defense cartridge
shall i post the pasta?
>Would rather take a 10mm Beretta that takes Glock 20 mags.
Oh, you're just baiting poorly.
No its just wrong.