Would U.S. be able to establish air superiority over Iran before Iran knocked out all the U.S. airbases in the middle east with its missiles and drones? Russia was unable establish even regional air superiority over Ukraine which a third of the size of Iran, and Ukraine only had old and outdated SAM batteries in comparison Iran's new and modern ones like pic related (Khordad 15). U.S. also has few assets constantly deployed in middle east, however it would rapidly deploy unless Iran knocked out U.S. logistics within the first 24 hours. Unless U.S. fails to establish total air superiority over Iran during the I believe Iran would be able to defeat Saudi Arabia and the Gulf Countries but not Israel.
What are your thoughts on Iran's anti-air capabilities? This thread is wholly dedicated to Iranian SAM vs USAF, not political.
>Russia was unable establish even regional air superiority over Ukraine which a third of the size of Iran,
I don't think you can even remotely compare the Russian and US air forces, Russia has really never focused on being a significant air power as they know it would simply just be too expensive for them
Also the yanks don't go anywhere alone, they have a host of other nations following and supporting their efforts. It was pure hubris from Russians to take on a country the size of Ukraine.
Honestly half the reason we do that is more for thier sake than ours.
Our allies have no reason to get into wars so would so have no chance to get real world experiance otherwise.
When they follow us they get to play in the sandbox at a discount and get to refine thier operations and doctrine with real world experiance that would be impossible otherwise espeically working with allies as they would in an actual nato operation.
There's no need to troll, I was being serious.
So was I actually.
Its an unironic 2 way benefit there is alot of polical benefits to having them involved.
But the big truth that no one really talks about and its half the reason we stuck around the desert way past the point of it being useful is we needed proving grounds that was active but low intensity and low attritional.
Its expensive as shit to set up but costs dont scale with extra allied needed that much outside of them building thier smaller FOB on out base.
Bringing allies in does wonders for thier training and practicing working together under real world conditions without the losses of a hot peer war.
Our allies get a huge discount on military expeditionary costs as they dont need to handle most of the logistics issues.
A long peace with no real world experiance can cause massive doctrinal equipment and training issues due to not being able to actually check it.
Honestly the big thing is more working on coordanation.
Well small addendum, this is more about the later phases the intial phases they help alot more due massive weight of force added in the intial operations.
But later occupation and COIN phase it ends up being a timeshared proving ground for everyone else.
Not counting the french as they have no lack of expeditionary locations in africa for this as well.
Well yeah, that’s half the fricking point of the alliances we make man, modern wars require allies, no one wins wars solo anymore, the world is WAY to interconnected
The US would put Iran's dicks in the dirt, I don't know what bullshit you're on.
>boasting about damaging unarmed helicopters
As pitiful as iranian shills generally are tbh
>never even heard of operation eagle claw
Why should anyone consider the opinions of such an ignoramus like yourself relevant? U.S. lost 2 aircraft and 8 KIA in that mission due to sandstorm.
>due to sandstorm
Not
>due to air defense
What sandstorm doing?!
>ignoramus
is this some pajeet term that is being used ironically?
Dude, that's English, it's how rich people say moron
Havent you ever been to cracker barrel?
so youre saying its entirely irrelevant to the discussion?
>due to sandstorm
How can the US ever compete with Iran's tactical sandstorms?
Let me get this straight:
>US forces infiltrate Iran undetected and set up an austere forward air base INSIDE IRAN to use for the hostage rescue mission
>Operation aborted because of losses due to the weather
>???
>IRAN STRONK
If anything this just shows how incompetent Iran's air defense was.
>thread about air superiority
>posts naval battle
have a nice day this instant
Says the moron crowing about the might of Iran's sandstorm summoning powers due to a failed hostage rescue 43 fricking years ago.
Does Soleimani getting clapped from the sky count?
Did you just post a fricking sandstorm killing an op from 40 years ago as a win for Iranian air defense?
Does the Great Replacement and decline of the white population hurt or help Americas military power?
So no argument?
yes. All Iranian SAMs would get JASSMd and all of their missile launchers would get PrSMd
>Would U.S. be able to establish air superiority over Iran before Iran
I stopped reading here because the answer is emphatically YES. Any other discussion is literally pants on head fricking moronic.
>Ukraine only had old and outdated SAM batteries in comparison Iran's new and modern ones
lol
>muh Russia
Worthless third-world shithole with an arab-tier army That is currently humiliatingly losing a war of choice against a neighbouring nation 1/10th their size.
The US would in fact be able to establish air superiority over Iran, and Russia at the same time, while effortlessly exterminating their missiles and drones before msot could even be launched, with aerial interception and Patriot then exterminating the rest.
Thirdies lose wars against civilized people. Deal with it.
Russia is an industrialized nation, not 3rd-world, their military is substantially superior to Arabs and they’re currently winning the war. The fact that you can believe(?) in the opposite of easily evident reality tells me you’re scrambled on propaganda.
Russia hasn't penetrated more than an hour's drive into a country that they share a border with.
Meanwhile, 20 years ago and halfway across the globe: https://youtu.be/0yr-LaMhvro?t=92
>More confirmed vehicle losses
>Massively higher shell consumption
>Lost more territory than they took over the last year
>Large scale mutiny/coup attempt from their troops
The cognitive dissonance required to believe the side going through all that is winning must be painful.
Victory is surely coming soon! It's only day 550 of the three day special military operation!
>The US would in fact be able to establish air superiority over Iran, and Russia at the same time, while effortlessly exterminating their missiles and drones before msot could even be launched, with aerial interception and Patriot then exterminating the rest.
Wow. Now riddle me this: How is the U.S Army going to "exterminate" Iran's drone and missile force, hidden thousands of meters deep into Iran's extremely reinforced, secretive mountains missile bunkers? Patriots have an absolutely horrible track record btw, pwned by Saddam's SCUD's that were inaccurate, pwned by the Houthis who used modded S-200's, and today pwned by the Russians who used hypersonics. Iran has prepared for a US strike scenario for literally dozens of years.
If you think the US doesn't has spies at the very top of the Iranian military and doesn't know precisely where does underground bunkers are you are beyond saving.
This isn't a bond movie, huge strech.
>killed the chief glowie of Iran with a flying slapchop
>somehow basic humint is a stretch of the imagination
Sure thing bro. The CIA doesn't have people in the Kremlin either. Go back to sleep
No it's Hot Shots Part Deux
Dude, Iran's military and government is known to be fully infiltrated by Mossad, I highly doubt the CIA is far behind if not ahead in that game
>Wow. Now riddle me this: How is the U.S Army going to "exterminate" Iran's drone and missile force, hidden thousands of meters deep into Iran's extremely reinforced, secretive mountains missile bunkers?
Hit the access points with bunker busters, now the bunkers are inaccessible even if they are still around.
The rest of the post is stupid bait.
>hidden thousands of meters deep
you do seem dumb enough to actually believe that
Even if they are, the doors aren't and the US can just pool's closed them with JDAMs.
Do you really think Patriot in 1991 is the same as Patriot in 2023?
>today pwned by the Russians who used hypersonics
Yep. I'm sure evidence of that will turn up any minute now.
>Patriots have an absolutely horrible track record btw
Are you really going to say that after watching the system down no less than seven hypersonic missiles using interceptors that are two generations out of date?
he's moronic, but kinzal quite literally isn't hypersonic, which is why they were shot down
They're still a good indicator of non western capabilities
Russia swore black and blue that those missiles would not only overcome patriot, but also all other existing air defences and any new ones built in the next twenty years
Instead they got clapped by obsolete tech and clever algorithms
good indicator of the absolute state of russia, I wouldn't extrapolate that to china for example, since they are arguably more competent and actually have money
>How is the U.S Army going to "exterminate" Iran's drone and missile force, hidden thousands of meters deep into Iran's extremely reinforced, secretive mountains missile bunkers?
lol. lmao even
https://twitter.com/Israel_Alma_org/status/1674044683767431170
Damn Israel seems like they have that shit on lock. I hope they dont ask America for money, weaponry and soldiers to fight Iran for them. I think they can do it own their own. America has given enough weapons and ammunition to Ukraine. We probably need time to replenish that.
America is already giving them money and they would probably give them a lot more money in the case of a war. It’s a good investment
But luckily you don’t have to worry about a war cause the Iranians are not entirely stupid. Israel kills their scientists, colonels, IRGC members, bombs their “super secret” sites and they do nothing in response. So you don’t have to worry about a war with Iran
There is a scenario where Israel preemptively attacks Iran. Netanyahu will admit as much. And as for it being a good investment for America, I disagree. From a completely transactional basis the money would be better spent elsewhere. Unfortunately the israeli lobby is the most powerful interest group in the country which means billions for Israel who didn't spill blood with us in Afghanistan or Iraq. The Israeli lobby was good at getting us into Iraq and Afghanistan through state policy but where was the Israeli military when it was time to spill blood? Compared to OEF/OIF, war with Iran would get a lot less support from the American public mind you because the patriotism from the 9/11 era is dead and gone.
>There is a scenario where Israel preemptively attacks Iran. Netanyahu will admit as much.
yeah, okay? the only things the israelis would strike are iranian nuclear sites (which they have sabatoged before). and even then the Iranians would probably not attack israel themselves but would use their proxies in Lebanon or Syria.
>And as for it being a good investment for America, I disagree. From a completely transactional basis the money would be better spent elsewhere.
that's your opinion. US aid to israel has many benefits which cost next to nothing. but i am sure you know better than the american security agencies
israelis didn't get you into shit. you have lots of war hawks necons in your government. you don't need the israelis for that. next thing your're gonna be saying is that the israelis did 9/11
> where was the Israeli military when it was time to spill blood
i don't know if you're mentally deficit or what. but israel is an extremely small country with an extremely small army. they don't have any force projection far beyond their borders.
>today pwned by the Russians who used hypersonics.
Lmao. Guess me and many people living in Kyiv and observing how in recent months despite increased missile attacks sky in capital are more safe then ever thank to western AA, especially Patriot, just don't know shit.
> modern ones like pic related (Khordad 15)
It launches Sayyad-3 missiles which are just a slightly more long range version of Sayyad-2 which in itself is just a reverse engineered US RIM-66 missile from the 1960s.
The S-300 despite its age absolutely blows Iranian SAMs out the water.
Wouldn't matter if Iran can't move anything past the strait of Hormuz.
I doubt you have a dog turd of a chance, yanke
>Raghead as massive levels of delusions of grandeur
This is gonna be easy
Lol murica would stick a feather up your ass and call it macaroni
COULD Iran threaten US airbases in Iraq, Kuwait and Saudi? From some massed combination of drones and missiles? It’s possible I think. It really depends on how much AD the US setups up with the knowledge that they’re going up against Iran. Then they’re flying out of Israel which going too much for Iran but that also is going to really cut down on sorties vs flying out from right next door. Does Iran have any strong runway-denial munitions? Just putting holes in them can be fixed in hours.
Look at it this way
Iran has fewer missiles than Russia
Ukraine has only a tiny fraction of the air assets, defences and capacities of the USAF
If russia can't knock out the Ukrainian airforce after a year of cruise and ballistic missile strikes, then Iran and its squadrons of lawnmower drones are not going to stop the USAF
>Would U.S. be able to establish air superiority
Yes
Of all the things to doubt, you doubt the air game of the US fricking A, not even God can beat them at air game and he fricking lives there
>Of all the things to doubt, you doubt the air game of the US fricking A, not even God can beat them at air game and he fricking lives there
Big facts.
…? The face-saving hit on empty buildings with 0 casualties that Trump let them have in response to assassinating that general? A war situation is very different.
>empty buildings with 0 casualties
>Trump let them have
Nice, so U.S. voluntarily let Iran seem like it has unstoppable missiles and avoided shooting down the missiles?
Was it also a gesture of goodwill by Patriots when the ARAMCO facility in Saudi Arabia was destroyed in 2019 just 4 months earlier?
hello chang, back from the reeducation camp already?
we killed one of the iranian generals, plus collateral, and they couldn't even kill a single iraqi bystander in return, let alone any US personnel.
>we killed one of the iranian generals
He ran Iran's equivalent of the CIA.
they did manage to kill a plane full of Ukrainian civilians at least.
>by Patriots
>in 2019
we just gonna pretend like Patriot isn't BTFO'ing Russia in Ukraine right now?
They only caused some superficial damage to an Iraqi air base that was housing a small American contingent that had no air defense systems installed yet still failed to actually kill anybody or destroy anything important.
>Iran knocked out all the U.S. airbases in the middle east with its missiles and drones
>war against a country with less than half their population is in a stalemate
>this means Russia is winning
Even Dimmsdale could establish air superiority over Iran
Of course they could, they've got
FAIRY!!
GOD!!
PARENTS!!
replying to yourself really drives the point home
If the US was remotely confident about dominantly winning a war against Iran, they'd have done it decades ago. Iran has more regional influence and military capabilities today than it did ever before.
Air superiority alone can't wipe out Iran because they have tunnels and bunkers, and they have allies across the region. Regional countries are kneeling to Iran at the moment after they tried the escalation thing in the second half of the 2010s and got burnt.
The US will never start a war and Iran hasn’t done anything amounting to starting a war. As long as Iran stays hands-off and keeps things to deniable proxy militias they’re safe from the US. The US relies on Israel to keep Iran’s nuclear program suppressed. There’s nothing Iran can do to stop the US from junking them if the US wants to. So Iran wisely tries to avoid the US wanting to.
Remember when our dumbest president whacked the IRGC's biggest legend and Iran couldn't do anything meaningful in return? This is because the regime and the IRGC understand they continue to exist at our grace.
US Navy would be able to establish air superiority over Iran with a single aircraft carrier
Iran can't even stop Israel from bombing them, how could Iran even hope to establish air-dominance over US bases in the ME when they can't even establish air-dominance in their own country?
Look at a map from March-April 2022 and compare that with a map from March-April 2023, I dare you you moronic shill.
>would the world's 1st and 2nd largest air forces whose entire military ideology hinges on air superiority be able to maintain air superiority?
hmmm curious I wonder
anybody who thinks the US wouldn't get air superiority within a week of a conflict starting up is pants on head moronic and should probably be neutered. Like OP
>posting about iraq
Black personx the iranians let the americans know in advance that they are going to attack the area. Which allowed the americans to prepare for impact because shooting them down in a population city is a bad idea. Iranians killed no service members while the americans got away with killing their general. Which is worse, being unable to kill any americans or having your general killed by them?
>Ruining your own country to take over like 10% of Ukraine
Idk doesn’t seem like a good trade to me
Ok, now look at the map of territory that russia lost, between February 2022 and December.
our pet israelites alone could handle them
imagine what the soviets were thinking when they realized over two dozen batteries equipped with their most advanced SAM technology were wiped out within a day
>can't even defeat Saudi Arabia, Israel or even Iraq
>but DUDE what if Iran took out the US!?
Irantard is back, I see.
Iranian native SAMs are just inferior durka-durka versions of Russian ones. They don't work on F-35 and that's already battle-proven.
the US would have total air superiority by breakfast
No, anyone who says yes is just a very biased murican. Iran has more than enough missiles and drones to absolutely pummel any and all US affiliated airbases within the entire ME region, they've also got their proxies like Kata'ib Hezbollah who can always join in on the fun as all hell breaks lose.
The US would not even get a chance to establish air superiority, and their carriers would be targeted as well.
>Hez
>doing anything of note
Largest and most well-equipped non-government force in Iraq that rocked the US even as it was significantly weaker.
Bro stop letting bias talk, US generals have admitted that Iran has made huge strides in military equipment and technology, Iran is very good at this they have more advanced drones than the US, they even have equipment better than US AD.
You are a complete clown.
Irans technology is on a par with the USA sixty years ago. What the frick is this mullah delusion thread about muh fricking Iran the smelly armpit of the military world. The US does not have to go to war with Iran. It if wants to get messy it can have the entire leadership of Iran dead without even having a American set foot in the place. Fricking morons. The USAF may as well me aliens from an advanced civilisation as far as the Iranians are concerned, they last saw modern military technology of any kind in fricking 1979 44 years ago.
>Would U.S. be able to establish air superiority over Iran
Yes. easily
>Would the US be able to
Yes. The answer is always yes.
Yeah. Now you cope
>let the americans take and hold your capital for 20 years
>americans hunt down and kill your honored al queda friends
Wow big win. It's like de Gualle riding through Paris claiming France defeated the Germans.
>Iran is 3 times larger than Ukraine
...huh. The more you know...
kind of wild lol
Iran is about the size of Alaska
Ukraine area: 603,550 km2
Iran area: 1,648,195 km2
Roughly 3x, if you exclude Crimea and Bombas definitely over 3x
>being that guy
>What are your thoughts on Iran's anti-air capabilities?
Completely worthless shit. Utterly useless against the USA or its airforce. May as well be launching goats. Would be zero'd jammed and destroyed within minutes of even turning a radar on let alone any kind of lock (just not happening).
>comparing anyone to russia
>when russia doesn't have sead munitions that work against the threats they're facing (soviet made systems)
>they don't train for sead
>they get less than half the flight hours of an average NATO pilot
>they aren't able to perform complex flight operations
>their accuracy is shit
>their ability to pick targets is atrocious
how does russia being shit at war somehow make other countries shit at war?
Russia's failure to obtain air supremacy is more to do with their poor pilot skill and lack of guided munitions, which either did not allow them to attack targets or forced them to fly dangerously low and slow. By contrast, western pilots have significantly greater flight hours and very large stores of guided munitions. Nowadays Russia is further hemmed in because of western SAMs, which Iran does not possess.
The US could establish and maintain aerial supremacy over Iran in perpetuity with great ease. The Iranians have knockoff turd-world hybrid SAM designs with Aliexpress components of questionable quality. The Sayyad-3 is itself an "upgraded" early RIM-66, which isn't impressive. This is pre-Aegis stuff. And even the best SAMs alone cannot withstand a competent SEAD/DEAD campaign if the attacker really owns the skies. Eventually, the offensive air force will break down the SAM network, even without the help of 5th gen aircraft.
Maybe their ballistic missiles could temporarily shut down nearby Gulf airfields, but the west has gotten pretty good at quick tarmac repairs for exactly this reason. If they shut it down temporarily - the next day, the air force starts flying. Iran simply does not have volume or the quality of missiles to keep large numbers of airstrips perpetually inoperable. Even that wouldn't be enough, since it's not going to sink aircraft carriers, which would definitely be steaming for it.
Starting a fight with a sucker punch, which is probably going to fail, still means less than ending it getting curb-stomped, which is what's going to happen.
So why can't they shoot down Israeli planes, actively striking them now? What makes you so confident the US wouldn't fair better?
>before Iran knocked out all the U.S. airbases in the middle east with its missiles and drones?
Russia has far more missiles than Iran and couldn't knock out a much smaller air force, moron
>much smaller airforce
You mean the airforce that is being paid for and supplied by all of Nato?
Lmao, completely correct. Russia, ostensibly the 2nd/3rd most powerful military power couldn't even disable the runways/air force of a neighboring country with ballistic missiles that are superior to Iran's. Ukraine is merely supported by NATO, do you think Iran even has a chance of denying the entirety of the US air forces, which make up the vast majority of NATO air power? Even in the most dank hashish induced fever dream of the Ayatollah, the US still takes air superiority, all that changes is the level of losses assumed. It would be Gulf War 3.0 in reality.
>Russia was unable establish even regional air superiority over Ukraine
Are you seriously comparing the USA to Russia? LMAO!!!!!
Hey now
The Bongs and Krauts and Frogs all played their part in our symphony of destruction, they deserve some credit too
(The bong pilots seriously had one of the hardest mission of suppressing heavily defended airfields with the Tornadoes).
I am glad that the US are our allies
For years and years Eurocucks have always mocked Americans and the "muh le evil military industrial complex", "muh le evil CIA", "muh le evil trillion defense budget that le could be used for heckin healthcare and le bike lanes". These fricking homosexuals have been real silent since 2022 lmaoooooo
Americans themself mock americans about it.
We still consider you yanke feds as expedable """allies""", just like israel does.
Your treacherous chickens are coming home to roost, and it's beautiful.
Can't wait for China to make their move in east asia, don't event fool yourselves for a minute we will be on the same team.
>muh evil cia
The CIA and FBI claim that white nationalists are the biggest threat to national security. The FBI spent the last few years locking up Jan. 6th protestors. They've become a political arm aimed at their own citizens. You think the American political and military apparatus gives a frick about protecting Europe? Buffer states are meant to be speed bumps that might get rescued after the fact. That is if you trust a military full of women, trannies and brown people to liberate you.
the way the vehicles shake killed me
Iran still has an airforce? They have a better chance of shooting Chinese made Warsaw Pact artillery munitions from pickup trucks.
If the Navy refuses to shoot down F-14s it would be hilarious if they were completely ignored and even being ignored Iranian F-14s just flew around in circles completely helpless anyway.
The US could respond to any aggressive action on Iran’s part with unbelievable overwhelming firepower within minutes of Iran even mobilizing for a strike. We can literally see Muhmet wiping his ass with his hand and carelessly rinsing it with a water bottle before he even radios to initiate the strike on US assets, and we don’t even need the air bases in the region for the counter strike.
t. Knower
>knower
How far afield are assets ready to go vs Iran?
I will say that the US has assets near Iran ready for strike continuously and I will say that the hypersonic program(s) are not as “behind” as chang posters would have you believe.
>Would U.S. be able to establish air superiority over Iran before Iran knocked out all the U.S. airbases in the middle east with its missiles and drones?
Yes. Iranian cruise missile and IRBM launch sites would be all taken out by Tomahawks launched from submarines in the Persian Gulf after they sink the Iranian Navy in a surprise attack.
Who would benefit more from a war with Iran, Israel or working class whites?
Yes.
to an extent, Iranians. Unironically. If you got rid of the Ayatollah and the Revolutionary Guard, Iran would probably be able to mend fences pretty quickly; the rest of the middle east might be able to heal as well, as one of the triumvirate of pointless tit-for-tat in that great game would be fricking gone.
As long as ground oil remains a strategic resource the middle east will continue to be unstable
Iran's air defenses are great at shooting down civilian aircraft and not much else. Israel could probably establish air superiority over Iran by themselves if they were just given tanker support. Asking if the US can is hilarious, frankly
Yes not even iranians thinks it could stop the US.
Thier entire strat is deterrance through UAV militia and missile spam so it isnt worth attacking them or esclating to that point in the first place.
They will go down but will deal a bunch of damage in the process.
Worked in Iraq
There is very little chance to establish air dominance without taking out AA first. It's what they did in afghanistan and iraq ny sending apaches below radar carrying grounds troops. There is also a chance to take AA out with cruise missiles (ofc Iran can do the same) If the US manages to achieve that, yes they would have air supremacy. There is of course also the option that fails and missiles hit expensive sea assets like carriers. There is a good reason why an iran intervention carries an enormous risk
The American people wouldn't support a boots on ground war in the middle east especially when groceries and gas are already so expensive.
>Khordad 15 (air defense system)
>In service with the Syrian Air Defense Force.
how does the syrian capital keep getting hit by the israelis if the SAM is so good?