Or rather - in how many days(?) a squad of three space marines will scrape Monke out of his bunker and mount his head on a Kremlin spire?
Would three (3) Adeptus Astartes be enough to defeat the russian army?
Or rather - in how many days(?) a squad of three space marines will scrape Monke out of his bunker and mount his head on a Kremlin spire?
We have already had this thread before it got deleted. Yours will be too and no they couldn't.
>and no they couldn't
That extremely depends. Three mofos from a mroe glowie/SF-style chapter would absolutely be able to assassinate monke.
Space marines ARE special forces. They are even trained to be scouts and snipers for a few centuries before graduating to heavy weapon duty and then as a full fledged battle brother if they are codex compliant (with the vast majority of chapters being such). In the majority of cases in the fluff space marines are fricking ridiculously skilled and powerful, but they are NOT one man armies. Enough heavy weapons fire or a big ass bomb is enough to put them out of commision and without supply lines they will lose their extra sensory utility as well as a portion of their enhanced strength when their armor eventually fails. 3 battle brothers working their way from the front lines of ukraine to the kremlin without being spotted or kill is unrealistic. They are not imperial knights nor imperial assassins.
They are special forces but not all special forces are created equal. As I'm sure you'd agree, there's a difference between, say, an Imperial Fists astartes and a White Scar.
Fair point, but that is why I specifid codex compliant.
Unless it has been retcon'd my understanding was that newly inducted intiates serve under scout companies for a few hundred years. It is not a few decades.
Did you read OPs subject title? This is not just assassination, it is whether 3 battle brothers can defeat the russian army.
says decades here but that is the whole from fresh injection of the gene seed until they become a full battle brother so that includes time in the devastators ect.
https://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Brother
Ohhhh, ok I stand corrected then in that case.
Disregard what I said.
no biggy, it's just my autism
initiates serve under scout companies but they're not there for centuries. Show me a source that says centuries as opposed to years or a decade. Dante, for example, became a captain when he was around 300 years old.
sources dont matter. whatever you write about astartes is just as valid as somebody paid by gw
You are unfortunately unironicaly correct with nu-40k
Did you read the OP? Scraping monke out of his bunker and mounting his head on a spike does not actually require defeating the entire Russian Army.
Who do you think they will have to fight through to reach putin? The police? Don't be moronic. OP's point was can they defeat the Russian military and adjacent to that can they kill putin. He even does a continuation of subject title in his post with:
>Or rather - in how many days(?)
Regardless of putin getting killed or not, they are facing the Russian military and by extension their capability for heavy weapons and explosives.
>They are even trained to be scouts and snipers for a few centuries
lol no a decade max
they could probably do it is you go by that part of the lore where they can run over 50kph and can do so for a dozen or so hours in one go
split up, go cross county, avoid major population centers ect.
they would outrun the security corridor and until the russians figure out just how fast they are they would be looking for them where they where
best bet would a security cordon a few dozen km outside of moscow with attack helicopters and other air assets that can quickly respond. Follow the heat signatures of their backpack exhausts and then hit them with everything you've got
Yeah but see, I doubt anyone here is convinced that the Russians would manage a comprehensive and competent defense of Moscow. Remember the Prigozhin run and the Shoigu line they erected in response to the mutiny?
yes, but we are talking about a fantasy scenario.
it isn't that much more magical than 3 space marines popping up
Isn't the entire point to take a realistic scenario and introduce some fantasy elements and then explore what would happen? If you modify the scenario by making it less realistic, the entire thing breaks apart.
>Enough heavy weapons fire or a big ass bomb
How many anti-tank weapons does Putin's bodyguard detail have on hand exactly? And big ass bomb to try and stop an assassination attempt sounds like a real spicy tactic.
>when their armor eventually fails
That shit can stay operational for weeks or months before a recharge.
Space marines run out into open fields to fight machine gunners when they had artillery and a good defensive position.
?
This will never stop being the most relevant scene for how the 40k universe works and how fricking bad they are at war. No amount of books will ever wipe it away.
%3D
Space marines are meatheads that fight like an angry football team.
IIRC the charge was because the Spess Mehreens knew that the Orks would be able to fire down into the landing site from that ridge.
They could also fire down on them as they walked straight out into the open so a hell of a lot of good it did them.
Yeah, but they didn't really have a lot of choice. Get fired down upon by the orks while other orks fire down at the landing site or get fired down upon while charging the orks in hopes they can distract or incapacitate them so the other orks can't fire down on the landing site.
It's almost like it was set up to be a heroic yet doomed charge to highlight the tragedy of the setting.
Oh, you're moronic. Glad we can ignore anything you say.
Forget the promise of science and understanding. 40k is about White Somalia not tactical competence.
Stop being fragile and accept that your plastic toys don't depict realistic combat.
You are implying a bit much based off a video game cinematic. Maybe stop huffing your own shit with a smile on your face while pretending it's great.
You're looking more and more assravaged with each response.
Been days and nobody has even read or responded to that post either, must be getting desperate for attention.
>kill monke
>somebody vastly more competent (literally anybody else) is put in charge
I feel like we've seen this conundrum before.
space marine feats range from getting onetapped by a guardsman to remaining undetected on a daemon world and defeating a greater daemon in single combat. 3 of them, especially veterans, would 100% be able to waltz into the kremlin and kill 1 guy. In the ultrasmurfs books they were totally cut off from reinforcements while doing these things
Depends whose writing the book, obviously.
Next time think of something interesting like "what would happen if you smuggled a Haemonculus into the Moscow Underground."
>haemonculus injects krokodil, gets russian AIDS and dies in a wet ditch
the russian federation is like a minefield for the dark eldar
I think the closest thing to an accurate representation that we have, is the Astartes fan series. I've always hated how the marines are presented as disposable fodder against mediocre enemies in almost every cutscene or cinematic. If they were that bad and took that many losses on even a semi-regular basis, they wouldn't exist at all, given how long it takes to create/train a marine, and how many of them are hundreds of years old, meaning they've survived thousands of battles against overwhelming odds.
I think so if they played the long game and used gorilla warfare. They have all of Russia to hide out in. All they would need is las-weapons.
3 Adeptus Astartes is over 3 million Space Marines.
An adeptus astartes is a space marine.
No it isn't. The Adeptus Astartes is the organization that space marines are a part of.
No, that's the plural, an adeptus astartes is the high gothic name of a space marine.
Nta but you are wrong. Astartes is the designation of a space marine. Adeptus Astartes is the plural collection of space marine chapters that serve within the imperium just as you have the Adeptus Mechanicus.
Try again.
Thabks for outing yourself as someone who does not know jack shit about the world building. Firstly imperial high gothic is dog latin. Taking their translations literally is stupid and people have gone over this before years ago with the old school designers even admitting they did not nessasarily fully understand the context of the language they were appropriating. Secondly if you read most stories Astartes is used in context to define human from the transhumanist mess that is a space marine. "An/a Astartes" or "The Astartes" are used a frickton, with Adeptus Astartes often used by functionaries when talking about the section of imperial forces occupied by Chapters.
Now without getting into a further linguistic debate, would vatniks be seen as abhumans in the eyes of Space Marines?
The average imperial citizen is every terrible quality of Russians amplified.
Adeptus has the same meaning as Department, Ministry, or Bureau does in English. Adeptus Administratum, Adeptus Custodes, Adeptus Terra, Adeptus Arbites, Adeptus Astra Telepathica, Adeptus Mechanicus, et cetera.
>Adeptus has the same meaning as Department, Ministry, or Bureau does in English.
It does not, it literally means "adept". You constructed that definition in your head because it sounded right to you.
No, the imperial bureaucracy did, because that's how they use it. When they meant to call someone an adept, they actually use the word adept, such as a tech-adept of the Adeptus Mechanicus.
Dude it was made by a group of bongs with next to no knowledge of Latin in the 80ies.
They got shit wrong and in their fantasy world it means what they intend it to mean.
Shut the frick up and stop foaming at the mouth, "adeptus" is singular, it describes a single person. For whatever reason, they also decided to use it as plural, even though it should be "adeptii". This applies to the mechanicus, the sororitas and most of the other branches of the imperium.
They would be deemed mutants in need of purging.
>Shut the frick up and stop foaming at the mouth, "adeptus" is singular, it describes a single person. For whatever reason, they also decided to use it as plural
THATS MY POINT. It is dog latin and is plural within the realm of the lore.
Also thanks for the clarification. Total ruskie destruction
Feel free to back your nonsense up with literature, you've been indulged plenty already.
Re: literally every usage of the term "adeptus" in every core rulebook.
No, they're usually referred to as the legiones astartes. You sure love attaching fiercely to your mistakes, like a digleberry.
>You sure love attaching fiercely to your mistakes
Very ironic.
Legiones Astartes refers to the Crusade era Marines, after the Horus Heresy and the Legions were broken up they became the Adeptus Astartes.
https://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Space_Marines
>The Adeptus Astartes (commonly known as Space Marines, and colloquially as Angels of Death) are one of the most elite and feared fighting forces
An "Adeptus" notes an organization, not an individual.
So it's like saying "3 FBI agents" in the OP
no more like 3 FBI as in the FBI times 3
How the frick do people struggle this badly with the english language
>being this confident about something that is demonstrably wrong
I think it it is clear you are tabletop gay first and lore gay second because you would not have such an outsider perspective with regards to basic in universe terminology. Stop digging yourself into a hole on fricking /k/ of all places regarding a grim dark sci fi setting.
Not him.
Astartes is a God, and hence can't really have an adequate plural. Adeptes Astartes is 'high Gothic' (which is just Latin) whilst Space Marine is low Gothic. GW introduced the new names due to copyright stuff.
So it should be either: "An Adeptus Astartes (singular); Adeptus Astartes (plural):" or, Adeptus Astartum. But that's silly, since again, Astartes isn't Latin to begin with.
Astartes isn't a god. Astarte was the genetic scientist that helped create the space marines and then tried to sabotage the program. The Enperor just named them after her. Astartes is a plural of her name.
https://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Amar_Astarte
In real life, silly.
nu lore is gay and moronic
>Astarte isn't a god.
Historylets having a reddit moment. Go to a private school next life.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Astarte
Are you moronic? We aren't talking about reality, we are talking 40k. The Astarte that the Astartes are named after wasn't a god. Now I think (you) should go back to яeddit with your homosexualy faux -intellectualism, you dumb Black person.
The Astartes WERE originally named after the God Astarte. And the lore saying they got their name from a techy who did some important work on the process is widely regarded as shittier than the Emperor's name being Jimmy Space.
>WERE
>widely regarded
Do you have any more irrelevant copes? The lore being shit doesn't change what it is. You can go write fanfiction that 3 three people will read and give a frick about, but it doesn't change the fact that in 40k the Astartes are not named after a god. Maybe you can write a letter Kevin Rountree asking to write the lore?
>you can go write fanfiction that 3 three people will read and give a frick about
Thats how the "Canon" is written lol
>shittier than the Emperor's name being Jimmy Space.
Do you have any evidence that The Emperor never went by this moniker?
Nothing better than some subhuman freak screaming that his headcanon is paramount to reality. The only thing that would fix you is a bullet.
High Gothic isn't just latin. The language you see that appears like Latin is just a representation. High Gothic is an amalgamation of English, French, Mandarin and every other language. It feels to the modern Imperium the same way that Latin does to us.
Depends on where they start, and whether they know where to go. Astartes are tough, but putting enough guardsmen against for example a squad of CSM will eventually bring them down, and guardsmen are bog standard homosexual sapiens with comparable equipment. The astartes would probably have to be really quick and aggressively push for the monke before they can be cornered and drowned with mass.
If they manage to drop pod/teleport into the Kremlin there isn't really much the Russians can do to stop them from slaughtering the entire high command/Duma before they're eventually brought down.
If you use them as frontline troops they would be effective but would eventually get brought down by artillery or a vehicle or something.
Depending on the legion you might get an RG or AL glowie to snipe some commanders and GTFO
If the SM are used according to doctrine, they would topple the Moscow government in an hour.
>teleport/drop pod straight into the Kremlin, MoD building and any other third HVT, probably the HQ for the nuclear strategic forces
>monke dead, high command dead and nuclear retaliation incapacitated
But really, even the US could do this with sufficient intelligence and willingness to risk nuclear war if it fails. It's just that using SM pretty much guarantees mission success
Further addendum, this tactic wouldn't work against the US since the government and military functions without the Pentagon and White House and they have flying command posts. US would lose thousands of men, sure, but then they'd drop a JDAM within 1m of each Marine. Don't even think terminator armour would be able to eat a 1000lbs bomb landing at their feet. Or if they survived, they'd be buried in a 10m deep hole and unable to get out
>Don't even think terminator armour would be able to eat a 1000lbs bomb landing at their feet.
Honestly it probably could. Termies have pretty crazy feats and 1000lb of TNT is low-tier by 40k standards. Getting stuck is totally possible though, that apparently happens a lot
Terminator armor is unique since it can literally teleport, hard to get something that can zap out from under rubble pinned.
And iirc Termie armor is megafrick durable, but it's more for absorbing shitloads of thermal energy moreso than kinetic energy of a bomb since it's based on ancient suits for working in (still running) nuclear reactor cores.
>Most powerful of the mass produced 40k super armor
>Gets cut in half by a bug with a pointy arm
sasuga terminator
It can't *just* teleport, they have teleport homers so if someone puts down a teleportation beacon they can teleport to it but they can't just teleport anywhere on a whim like warp spiders.
While you're correct that the suits were based on DAOT reactor suits, the termie suits were optimized for combat and could definitely tank the overpressure and frag of an explosion as well as the heat. They have survived being stomped by titans and nukes and stuff.
>tyranid does X to high tech weapon with lol bug arm
Nidwank exists to sell models and nothing else. In what universe can ANY claws pierce ceramite armor realistically
Oh I was under the impression Termies can short-range teleport, as in 50~100 meters or less, on their own but need a beacon for proper long range teleports ie; for ship boarding actions.
no iirc only warpspiders can actually do that. termies need the teleport beacons because they're very very slow and it would be a bad idea to just let them slog through a battlefield.
Terminators have no teleporting built-in, they have to use the teleport chamber of a ship or a base to do that. It's just that terminator armor is the only armor good enough to survive the split-second of warp travel.
In the universe where those tyranids have ate everything else and are coming for the last snack left
Their portrayal across the lore over the past like 30 years has ranged from 80 IQ giga homies who get killed by spears to ultra-genius immortal death machines with hundreds of years of combat training, reaction times bordering on the instantaneous, and encased in armor that gets its paint scratched by tank shells, so the answer could easily be yes or no.
Going by the strongest portrayal, because it would be hilarious, I imagine the three of them could start off in Ukraine and split up, literally running straight to the Kremlin tirelessly, punching the occasional Russian's head off for fun. Whenever something gets scrambled that could actually damage them they would either dodge it or shoot it out of the air with their bolter. This is a highly armored target the size of a (massive) man that can sprint at like 60 MPH. Considering Russia has trouble simply hitting stationary targets, the space marines should have no trouble dodging the kill zones of most airstrikes. Nukes or a FOAB (if that really exists lol) would do them in but Russia seems averse to using those.
>Would three (3) Adeptus Astartes be enough to defeat the russian army?
no, no matter how strong they are they can still get brought down by heavy weapons or vehicles, even in their own setting they need a significant amount of them to destroy a human army
>Or rather - in how many days(?) a squad of three space marines will scrape Monke out of his bunker and mount his head on a Kremlin spire?
If they droppod down to his exact location, however long it takes for them to scour the entire bunker
Depends on the chapter, type, if they’re named and what’s their starting point; assuming they can’t start right in Moscow and are among the Ujrainians or something then most bog standard marines aren’t skilled enough to pull off the operation with no support or don’t have the leadership/charisma to take command and arrange things that way. Techmarines and Librarians have the best chances due to tech/psyker bullshit but that’s still tricky since we don’t know how much the 40K tech can mesh with ours or how far they can reach with their psychic powers. Assuming you’re allowed to drop pod or teleport in then the Terminators have the best chance since they’re walking tanks, though the problem is still actually getting on target since Putin has his trains, planes, bunkers, and body doubles, but the rampage in Moscow might throw things off enough politically to derail a good chunk of the invasion. Chaos Space Marines would have an easier time since they can sue the Warp to bridge gaps in capabilities, plus they have Warp Talons, a unit specifically for hunting VIPs that can just jump in and out of the Warp to maul him.
Spess mureens can't magically divine where putty is at any given time (hint: it's more than likely not anywhere near the kremlin)
Their inability to complete the mission turns them incredibly resentful and they proceed to just burn down the whole of moscow (as we saw during pringles' road trip, the city has 0 defenses)
Everybody appreciates that
The sudden introduction of sci fi super soldiers in any conflict would be disastrous simply because no military is geared to respond to that kind of threat. Russia may have a dozen defensive lines in say Zaporizhia, but that doesn't mean those lines are all manned and prepared for a super human walking tank to come sprinting at them. The actual line of troops at the alert and ready is razor thin, and only going to be expecting a conventional threat. The only real danger that a space marine would face would be accidentally stepping on an anti tank mine and getting their leg blown off. By the time the Russian MoD could identify the threat, come up with any kind of countermeasures, and then disseminate that to the troops, the marines would already be inside the kremlin. That's not just Russia, even if they're a particularly poor candidate, but literally any existing military charged with the same task.
Space Marines are the mecha version of M113s or Wiesels. Any shaped charge will turn them inside out and waves of conscripts drowning them in melee combat is an established solution.
I don't know why warhammer (40k) homies are the way they are. Space Marines are impressive and deadly when used intelligently, and intelligent use does not involve charging trenches. Setting aside the danger of minefields and assuming they can detect and avoid them, heavy machineguns are still a serious danger and autocannon fire will at best render them combat ineffective extremely quickly, at worst kill them instantaneously on a direct hit.
But they literally can see mines, even hiden underground. Power armor's auto-senses will easily detect metal objects in the natural environment.
space marines have died to absolutely moronic shit in lore (stick wielding hobo, literal knights on horseback killing grey knights, arrows to the face etc). 3 marines is nowhere near enough to take down the entirety of Russia sure they'll do damage but they will eventually get fricked by artillery or any other high explosive
IMO the "it depends" musings in people's answers to these scenarios focus too much on the Astartes side.
Do the RUSSIANS know there's three Astartes looking to defeat them and do they know their (initial) location?
Does W40k just naturally attract the most insufferable autistic cretins who will try to shoehorn their special interest into every aspect of their (and everyone else's) everyday lives, or do people become like that after picking it up?
40k fans are essentially the bronies of science fiction
No that would be star trek
trekkies are uber nerds but are nowhere near as insufferable as 40k gays especially space marine fanboys
Ima a massive 40k gay and I can confirm.
One of the worst aspects of the franchise are the fans
I really hate the aesthetics of a lot of the series too. I wish the tabletop wasn't the primary part of it, and that Space Marines weren't so huge in the story. It's boring to hear about them and they look stupid af.
It's not just that. /tg/ in general is insanely homosexualy, to the point of crying whenever someone says Black person or homosexual. The tards from r/TheDonald (/pol/) cry all the time about how """nu/k (sic) is le reddit""" but clearly you've never been to /tg/. Most likely because it used to be the newbie board, with all the gays blabbering about how "oh I go to PrepHole, but only to /tg/" though /misc/ probably took over that role now.
Either way, that shithole was created to contain this 40k shit, and this was likely made to be a slide thread.
>both franchises had a booming start with dedicated followings
>both had a few movies to cash in on their success
>both had planned sequel series before getting cancelled
>both had decades long hiatuses afterwards before dying off
>both got a revamp with a brand new series
>both attracted even more of following with their latest entries
>both go from cult status to world wide appeal
>Internal friction breaks with OG fans and new fans
>debates vs revival and original become a cornerstone of fandom discussion over who is best x or y
>both create massive convention scenes which become iconic of the fandom
>fan series, fanfictions, mini-movies and art become massive staples that increase their following even more
>frick ton of erotica
>massive overlap with furries for some god forsaken reason
>form a large internet presence
>series dies off
>both fandoms become jaded and back to cult status
>both get even more jaded when the latest installment of the franchise is ass
>doomer status eternally while focusing on the "golden age" and lamenting not having a fandom in its prime
I dont know, Trekies and Bronys sound very much a like
It's pretty funny that the horsefricker fandom speedran that experience in just a little bit over a decade.
I doubt, My Little Pony was just a toy pony line for little girls. If there was a weird sweaty nerd community built around them it would had been very very small and very very gross.
Just like star trek the original series fans!
>a search on rule34 dot paheal dot net reveals that Twilight Sparkle is the most popular character tag
Oh yeah? Did you filter for the actual 80s era toy line?
They both had the same actor play essentially the same villainous side character with a similar character arch(assassination) and they both even had Will Shatner.
40k probably has the most lore of any modern series (personally I am a casual with some few hundred hours of youtube lore vids and surface level in books), and basically all of it or none or it is canon. Which is why it has so many lore wizards and lore factions. As for the OP questions I would personally say no, unless the Astartes are fielded with some sort of light orbital or aerial and materiel support. A single psyker that is strong enough however, not even god tier, could possibly subdue a planet at our current level of development if not overtly, at least subvertly.
>A single psyker that is strong enough however, not even god tier, could possibly subdue a planet at our current level of development if not overtly, at least subvertly.
really depends on the type of psyker not all of them have mind control shenanigans. you need an alpha and up to solo planets head-on. beta is generally the highest level a human psyker can go and still be considered sane with very rare exceptions such as inquisitor ravenor pre nerf. an average imperial battle psyker is delta and they get domed by standard weapons just fine
As a former horsefricker I now feel bad for the 40k fans who try to enjoy the hobby without being associated with >99% of the fandom.
>As a former horsefricker
No such thing. You can't take back what you did. Only thinf that will supercede your association is if you graduate to furhomosexualry like most bronys have done over the years.
>graduate to furhomosexualry
No I don't think I will
depends if it was 3 normal moronic ultramarines they would end up on an disection table.
however if it was it was a chaos marine or librarian, chaplain and an Tech-marine or something we would be in trouble.
The power of Space Marines is entirely dependent on the writer. Either 3 Marines can subdue entire plants (lol) or 3 Marines would do damage but ultimately get stopped by artillery, anti-armor, mines, etc. I think a happy medium where they're extremely powerful and can turn the tide in certain contexts is fine, but making them demigods when literal clowns and planetary defense forces with a single MBT can take them down is silly.
They'd make a difference in a single area, be able to create a gap to push through, but at some point they'll step on the wrong AT mine or get hit in the right spot by an autocannon and be out of commission.
it would depend how they chose to engage them.
lets say they are acutely aware of being alone, without backup, and for whatever reason NEED to defeat the entire russian army...
Honestly anon... depending on the chapter/legion background they will either try to die valiantly to anti armor, lone guerrilla warfare, OR they will go the political route and would have instigated the invasion of ukraine or poland while also prepping those nations to withstand and counter invade.
All that said, based on your smaller point of just going for monke?
Again... lets say they are of the sort to have the presence of mind to spend time thinking about it.
They would attempt to drop right in from orbit, probably with some decoys to absorb incoming countering fire, and then just fricking charge in and overwhelm him during an event where they knew he would be there.
Small arms fire is NOT going to do much to them.
50 bmg has a chance but none of his bodyguards is going to be carrying that.
It gets complicated if he manages to start evacuating, but something tells me Russia's own incompetence will frick up most attempts to get in their way.
Drop them in as veterans with a mix of equipment to deal with multiple situations and they might just bulldoze their way to wherever he is, absorbing fire with a stormshield, cutting through barriers with a powersword and sending everyone scrambling with a flamer/bolter combi weapon, while another uses some sort of heavy weapon to blow through anything dangerous, including buildings that might house snipers.
true but this is highly dependent on how they choose to engage.
being able to drop from orbit alone is a lot.
This. I think most people just imagine every space marine as being like Captain Titus when in reality a single marine would be absolutely fricking ripped apart by 10-20 ork boys.
most people don't know the crunch at all or think of a straight up fight against a massed army is how they are always going to engage.
there is a reason why a marine captain is so much more expensive than a squad of 20 boyz.
the cost in points alone for a captain is higher than the SQUARE of the cost of nearly 30 boyz.
To be fair, the crunch has always been acknowledged to not be accurate to the fluff, hence why GW published the rules for the movie marines in a... frick, I'm getting old, I don't remember the name of their magazine. White Dwarf?
https://www.dakkadakka.com/s/i/at/2011/6/moviemarines-01194024.pdf
damn that's hard to interpret. the WS and BS scores are obviously read inversely compared to their newer rulesets.
how old is that?
3rd or 4th edition, I do believe.
I realize that isn't an age, so probably 18 to 20~ish years old since I was in middle school when I was playing 40k the most and the rules are from around then.
nice trips satan.
I had an impression from hearing 3rd or 4th, but its nice to get confirmation.
that said I always felt the crunch gave a good impression of how various groups were meant to be able to stack up against every other group, more or less, particularly once you figure in some factors that will influence combat that are not going to be represented by crunch.
the impressions given to me of Dark Heresy via the old All Guardsmen Party stories contrasted with stuff like Ciaphas Cain always seemed to hit a great balance of how lethal and durable things for regular humans
but would they detect metal on metal and differentiate properly?
no, that would be the CONSCRIPT unit.
guardsmen are better trained and more accurate.
they are also only able to be so lethal by volume of fire from imperial lasguns, so a few shots almost always make it in.
Nah, it's always been acknowledged that the crunch balance is completely independent of how the fluff actually works, especially the tabletop game which has more impetus to be balanced then something like Dark Heresy. You also have a billion different writers and whoever's not on the cover of the book is gonna job regardless of if they're Marines, Guard, Orks, Tau, Necron, or whatever, which further muddles the discussion. Named characters also tend to get massive power-ups, though I will say that the Cain books do a good job of conveying how pants shittingly bad it is for Cain when he's up against a major threat and gets lucky or is saved by Jurgen and his trusty melta.
I don't care about what moronic writers do. my comments are about the balance I feel from well written fluff, that seems to draw on the crunch in a lot of ways from both the main game and more lower powered rpgs like dark heresy.
I think its perfectly reasonable for Astartes to be wearing armor (in most spots) that would require antiarmor levels of force to penetrate it, in modern terms.
Likewise I think its reasonable that regular guard weapons should have the ability to, given enough shots, chew through that armor eventually or get a lucky hit and damage something.
So, to put that in context.
A space marine not taking cover regularly and dealing with more dangerous threats before they can focus fire on him should get fricked.
a no mans land is an obstacle, not something to be charged over on foot.
An army is something to be maneuvered around unless you are being moronic or are in something like the black rage.
Anyways, I liked how the all guardsman did a great impression as well of the utterly insane amounts of paranoia, prep, drugs, and explosives it took to deal with a lot of stuff, from heretics, to chaos, to necrons, to tau, to bugs.
The only way they ever dared try and take out a chaos marine (non nurgle) was by a suicidal man with a flamer and detpaks hidden on said flamer pretending to be about to join him while venting about the massive amounts of trauma he gained from being in the meatgrinder too long.
>guardsmen are better trained and more accurate
Well even if we assume one guardsmen is worth 3 vatniks then the 3 space marines aren't gonna get far on their own
They categorically would not be otherwise they would have run out of marins about a millennium after the emperor won his worst dad ever award. Marine taskforces that equal about a few companies worth regularly get sent to deal with ork waaaaghs, there's no way some basic b***h battle brother isn't stacking orks to the tune of hundreds, daily.
>They categorically would not be otherwise they would have run out of marins about a millennium after the emperor won his worst dad ever award.
PDF, Skitarii and imperial guard and Ordo Xenos exist. Most chapters do not fight as an independent force and are instead force multipliers for existing imperial assets. In old lore it is even stated that some hive worlds leave or even deliberately settle ork clans on the world so PDF have something to fight and to keep them expereince as well as battle hardened and they don't get overrun (at least most of the time). Orks will kill an unsupported marine easily, but marines do not function like that anyway.
Ordo Xenos? That's not a fighting force, it's a branch of the Inquisition. Their Chamber Militant is the Deathwatch.
I know, I just meant it in a generalised sense as they also specialise in preventative measures in rooting out xeno incursions as well as being reactive with their chamber militant fighting force. I did not nessasarily mean my intial sentence to be exclusive fighting forces that the space marines fight alongside but examples as to who esle in the inperium that can combat xenos
>as to who else in the inperium that can combat xenos
All of it?
As in are those all of the forces available? No that was just from the top of my head. If you mean can the imperium face off all of the xenos hordes without space marines no I do not think they can.
All of the Imperium faces the xenos all over the galaxy all the time. Obviously it's not optimal but the Imperium is too large for the Astartes or Inquisition to respond to every threat. Among the millions of stars that the IoM commands, there are merely millions of Space Marines. The vast majority of Xenos incursions are dealth with by much more mundane forces, it's only when planets start going dark do the heavy hitters get involved.
they do so every day
the Imperial navy and Imperial guard is holding a thousand fronts every single day
the sm aren't holding up the imperium on their own or even carrying a fifth of the weight
they are specialists that get a lot of attention because they are the poster boys
There are around a million loyalist space marines
There are about a million imperial planets
If you do the math the Imperium can afford about 6-8 million Imperial Guard per planet as the minimum force deployment for a brushfire war. The spess marines are kept around as terror troops out of historical inertia.
Let's see the math.
it's on reddit i'm not going back.
IOW the IG can easily send more than that to any conflict important enough to warrant marines. Bodying marines with waves of mobiks is a proven 40k tactic.
So that's a no then.
Although I agree on the general gist of your argument.
that depends
do they have names and are they wearing their helmets?
In addition, do they have astartes pattern baldness
they grow thick lustrous manes, they just shave it off
Yes, you might even get the job with just 2
Well on the tabletop a unit of 10-20 guardsmen could quite easily kill 3 regular space marines, and they're a conscript army like russia
"Adeptus Astartes" is the name of their overall organization, not the individual marines. If you're going to nerd up the weapons board, at least do it in autistic detail.
>How will an unintentional squad of Dark Angel, Blood Angel and Emperor's Child accomplish this task?
un armed?
thats easy.
so that emperors children dude is gonna be horus heresy, obviously.
He is gonna persuade the others to raise and lead an army.
He might even have been one of the EC guys who DID lead the regular imperial army back in the pre heresy days.
So what HE is gonna do is persuade the others to pull a pre-heresy fulgrim.
They are gonna start a war economy of resource extraction, production, and drilling of soldiers.
The emperors children were all about flexibility and being subtle.
That dude will have plenty of background to apply.
indeed, which is why the only ways I saw it working was either a near suicidal drop mission to assassinate monkey boy by force, or by raising up another nation against russia.
As
says this assuming pre-heresy. But unlike
the EC is going to either:
>A) Alienate his battle brothers depending on his company or lodge leading to internal frictional or them seperating and dying
>B) Die of TURBO SPACE CANCER AIDs
>C) Take the role of a warlord by using his charisma and aura of transhumanism dread to create a cadre of militiamen. These men will consist of what he deems to be "pure of heart" which will translate to an army of chad look-a-likes and he will practice eventual eugenics to achieve humans who do not deviate from his picture-esc vision for mankind. He develops a cult of personality and forms a mini-narion state before he is killed for his hubris by his brothers or by another state actor as his influence threatens geopolitical balance
>D) He becomes a gay porn star
Your clarification of the scenario changes nothing. They die.
too much of a meme answer dude.
OP made it clear that somehow they are working together and united in purpose.
Meme questions deserve meme solutions. Especially questions already asked before.
Well considering that that's a post heresy Dark Angel the other two are gonna be real lucky if he doesn't immediately go apeshit on the EC.
Alpha legion could but it would be via infiltration and recruiting people to their cause.
A more interesting question is how 3 marines of each legion would go about killing Putin
>Emps children
Pulverize any resistance with sonic weaponry and snort the resulting powder, Putin gets turned into daemon meth
>Night Lords
flay Putin on live television, warcrime it up on the way there
>Word Bearers and Thousand Sons
get distracted by books, fail objective
>Alpha Legion
Putin quietly assassinated, replaced with Alpharius, alongside Gerasimov and Shoigu, vodka quietly spiked with hallucinogen so as to convert the entirety of Russia into chaos cultists
This is probably the best depiction of how Spacey Mareneys are meant to be "in lore"* https://youtu.be/O7hgjuFfn3A
*Note that "in lore" they are simultaneously able to solo an entire army themselves and also have had instances where they get defeated by a single normal human. 40K Lore at the end of the day is simply a means to sell plastic models to nerds and everything else is merely secondary to that.
>could 3 astartes beat the entire russian army
absolutely not
>could 3 astartes cripple the russian army and russian country to the point of inoperability
yes. Space marines are special forces c**ts who operate on the concept of strategical strikes, not tactical victory. Yes a space marine is gonna mop the fricking floor with a regular infantryman, but that's a waste of their capability. You give 3 raven guard to ukraine and putins dead in a week, if not a day, alongside 90% of his leadership and logistical capabilities. You give 3 world eaters to ukraine and send em to the front, they're dead in a week, if not a day. I don't care how tough astartes actually are, they already don't survive direct SABOT round hits in lore.
>Monke walks up the stairs to the second story of his house
>spacemarines enter and immediately fall into the basement because they're stupid heavy
>monke casually walks to another dacha and they just abandon that one with the spacemarines in the basement
Ezypzy
If they are either from Alpha Legion or Raven Guard, even one Astartes be enough.
space marines seize the initiative and roll first
they roll 6 shots at close range thanks to the rapid fire rule and hit 4 of them due to 4+ shooting
russians take 3 hits due to T3, and make no saves on their 6+ armor save, losing 3 men
russian return fire is only BS2 at S3 with no AP, requiring at least 20 shots to kill each space marine
so a 3-man space marine fire team could have a better than 50% to defeat a whole platoon of russians by themselves
the dark angel will start a fight with the traitor, but lose. then the blood angel will kill the EC after chasing him throughout history. Over 800+ years through world war one and two like highlander vengeance
That actually sounds fricking badass
Probably.
Three 7-8 foot tall deliberately engineered superhumans with physiology built for the battlefield specifically, who've come from hard backgrounds and been put through extensive, brutal live training and psycho-indoctrination deliberately designed to flat out kill anyone who doesn't make the grade, and then given arms and armour that, while not the most powerful of all possible ones, are reliable, and let them have a crack at pretty much anything.
People forget the bit about them being obscenely-well-trained tacticians and strategists, with an enormous access to military history, knowledge, and schools of thought.
And if they're a Dark Angel, a Blood Angel and an Emperor's Child, known for tactical brilliance, overachieving despite impossible odds in vicious assaults, and functional perfection in all matters of war respectfully, and not being pants-on-heads morons, they'd probably do pretty well.
It all comes down to that most common of issues. Do they think before they attack? If they do, the Russian army slowly dissolves after a series of guerilla strikes in important locations, taking out high rankers and maybe even monke.
If not, they make a good showing but die to AT and Arty in their first assault.
>People forget the bit about them being obscenely-well-trained tacticians and strategists
That's not all space Marines though. A lot of them are morons.
True but not these speciffic three as shown in the OP.
Indeed. Emperor's Children (and later Blood Angels) were actually famous for ensuring compliances of whole worlds with only 5-10 marines.
A lot of this was through diplomacy and the occasional targeted strike, but still.
Now if it was a question of a Space Wolf (not meme-tier morons, cunning, but impulsive and uneducated), an Imperial Fist (good at the basics, struggle at anything else, pathologically unable to reach higher or be flexible) and an Ultramarine (there is a method for this, we do not deviate from the method), then it becomes more of a question.
The Space Marines wouldn't bother getting involved in some petty struggle between factions (unless they were chaos marines), they would quickly figure out they have been sent back in time to sacred Terra in the beforetimes and immediately go look for their Emprah, who would likely have already sensed them.
/autistic essay
ah, frick it
>Khorne
would leap at the chance to fight, they would use their martial prowess to inspire others to join them and try to spread the war into Russia
>Tzeentch
would play both sides against each other to escalate the conflict between Russia and NATO to nuclear war then take over earth in the chaos, they would act like commandos assassinating key leaders or manipulating them to orchestrate events
>Nurgle
they would convince the Ukrainians to use biological weapons which will quickly spin out of control, then they will provide the "cure", turning to nurgle in their excruciating death throes
>Slaanesh
they'd convince Zelensky to dance to inspire the troops and invite more transsexual mercenaries
>Chaos undivided
would probably be sane enough to realize the Emperor is somewhere and try to remain as covert as possible and cultivate secret cults until they are discovered, in the hopes the cults will remain undetected and outlast their deaths, corrupting humanity
this would go on until the Emperor finds them, then they're fricked, because they're just regular space marines not a psychic demi-god
They wouldn't be sitting in trenches exchanging bolters with Mobniks, they'd be operating in Russia gathering intelligence exterminating oligarchs.
Marines are like, Super-SOF.
>Marines are like, Super-SOF
No they aren't.
The principle of SOF is concentration of power plus the best support that money can buy.
Imagine Delta Force or something but no longer restrained by the shackles of humanity.
Custodes can shrug off the shockwave of a shipping container-sized macrocannon shell fired from orbit. I'm sure termies can facetank a bomb or two.
Now suppose instead of being honorlesslly pragmatic zogbots obsessed with optimizing their kill ratios, it was a thinly veiled satire of predatory homosexuals larping as knights who've forgotten the power of common sense.
>putting your seed inside young boys at the cloister's wot makes an empire great, lads! Nowadays it's all adult men in the guard and we have to make do, no more elites innit disgraceful!
They can be either, as you just described both the Iron Hands and the Dark Angels
No, the principle of SOF is to engage in operations that aren't achievable by bog standard infantry units. Concentration of power and support just makes you elite infantry.
>elite infantry
So SOF or similar. You don't have elite infantry doing regular infantry things because real life isn't video games and elite infantry is elite because they're equipped differently from regular infantry, not because they have veteran ranks or better versions of the same equipment.
You can have elite forces without them being special forces. In today's modern world not so much, where the forces of every first world country is already elite and the closest we have to that is a heavy armored division.
Depends entirely on the chapter. Most sneaky Astartes chapters are now coincidentally aligned with chaos.
Don't know about marines, but a single golden boy would get it done within a week of being deployed outside of Puccia with no supply chains or intel.
>kills everyone in the bunker without leaving a trace
>russian federation immediately collaspes as martial law is enacted and civil revolts pop up alongside warlords
>geopolitical friction arises when state actors start accusing each other of killing an entire russian state goverment
>/k/ implodes with happening threads, wagner death squads enacting revenge or /misc/tards raiding to say it was america/j*ws behind killing the inheritors of hyperborea
>ukraine celebrates for 3 months before their bill for armaments land on their door step and face ecconomic turmoil for 2 decades along with internal militias causing attacks
>suddenly orks for some reason
>greatest mystery in the world history is the assassination of the entire kremlin
desu, I think three Astartes employed properly could accomplish the same even if the one single Custodes did better in comparison.
Custodes were a mistake.
Why come. I think they are more tolerable than Space Marine wank.
Well, Satan, I just don't think they add anything meaningful to the game. IMO, there's nothing they do that Terminator heavy forces like Deathwing don't already do, and the design/SKU space they suck up would almost certainly be better spent elsewhere.
Also, they fall into the whole "explaining more than they should" trap. One of the key pillars of the setting is imperfect information, and while this is a more subtle failure of that pillar than the Horus Heresy series, exposing Custodes to the game like this takes away some of the magic ("Oh, this super-special order of Super Space Marines that only exist to protect the Emperor must be super harda-aaaaaand he died to a lasgun."). It's fine to let some things just exist in the background in a vague state.
Finally, there just aren't enough of them in-universe to justify them existing as a separate army in-game. Dipping in one Custodes the way you could an Inquisitor? Fine. Weird, but fine. Deploying entire units of Custodes? No, get back to fricking Terra and let one of the million other organizations of the Imperium handle whatever you're going to do. You've got a Throne to protect, and the game already has enough half-factions that GW didn't put enough effort into fleshing out (see: Harlequins, Tempestus Scions).
There's a clear divide between the mythos or lore and the actual board game. And it varies from edition to edition, purely due to it being a board game, small caliber semi automatic guns (autoguns) or just simple mining equipment can put down a bioengineered supersoldier equipped with an array of inbuilt sensors ranging from night vision, to thermal, to motion sensors just on his helmet alone, which is part of a full body exoskeleton made of what is likely a zirconium alloy and topped of with a sacrificial ceramic lattice on top. Not to mention a ballistic bodysuit under that, and even under that, a subdermal carapace.
Heck, glancing blows could take down tanks too. To put it into perspective, a 5ft tall fire warrior can punch a space marine to death if the dice is on your side.
>There's a clear divide between the mythos or lore and the actual board game
To an extent, I agree, but the two bleed into each other. Space Marines currently have 2W because of Space Marine players incessant whining about how "weak" individual Marines felt, a feeling informed by their depiction in lore. I don't think GW will boost Custodes in a similar manner, if only because Custodes don't (yet) have the market share that Space Marines do, but it wouldn't surprise me if GW eventually did boost them because Custodes on the TT didn't match Custodes in the fluff.
Basic Custodes are already tougher, faster, have more objective control, and have better weapons than terminators. How would YOU buff them? Custodes aren't invincible btw, a group of 10 dark angels nearly killed one in an ambush and 'only' had 8 of them die in return. And the bananaman was only saved by Emperor fiat (this was on Terra).
>How would YOU buff them?
I wouldn't. I would fold Custodes, Sisters of Silence, Inquisitors, Assassins, Deathwatch, and Grey Knights into one Imperial Agents book. Custodes would be a 0-1 choice for 1-5 Custodian Guard. They can keep their stats and wargear, might drop their Bankai shit to make room for more meaningful integrations with the rest of the 'dex.
>"Oh, this super-special order of Super Space Marines that only exist to protect the Emperor must be super harda-aaaaaand he died to a lasgun."
Custodes aren't Space Marines. They are Primarch-lites.
Which makes it even more embarrassing when they die to overtuned laser pointers.
>overtuned laser pointers
A lasgun pulse at standard power will blow someone's arm off at the shoulder, it's equal in power to a full burst from an oversized automatic weapon. It's just that 40k is full of things that either wear a solid foot of power armor or literally don't even notice the missing limb. Which is why you get a whole platoon of your buddies and all shoot at the same time. And then magdump the body just to be sure. There is even an in-universe proverb that everyone thinks lasguns are flashlights until it's their turn to charge a trench facing the business end of 100 of them.
Cool story bro.
>it's equal in power to a full burst from an oversized automatic weapon.
Reminder that when GW actually made the mistake of giving autoguns and Stubbers real world stats, they were all inferior to what we had in WW2 because they're all noguns gays.
any time you hear a number in 40k you should IMMEDIATELY discard it and make up a more appropriate one in your head. They frick it up literally every time outside of the most vague and broad things (the Imperium has a million worlds, for example)
make up a more appropriate one in your head
Unfortunately, in a world where close combat is not viable but actually the best tactic available, there's nothing appropriate about 40K. Any attempt to make weapons realistic will automatically disqualify 80% of the setting, which gives RPG sourcebooks quite the conundrum.
Look, I know every sci fi setting bungles numbers here and there, nerd writers are terrible noguns with very little practical experience, but transforming 40k from "loony toons Wallace and Grommet slapstick comedy war" to "respectable big number pragmatic science fiction" requires you throw out not only every number ever given, but also every single visual depiction of the franchise ever, every cutscene, and about a third of the material in the books where a space marine is just as likely to get his helmet blown off by a M2 browning as he is to punch a man so hard he explodes.
The real issue is that his insane headcanon is manifestly not true, the lasgun is consistently described as equal in power to an autogun, which is consistently described as equivalent to a normal 20th century firearm. Of course, the third party story books in the distance past do describe lasguns as blowing off limbs, but that's just poetic license and everybody knows these things are the lowest tier of canon just barely above fanfiction and doesn't pretend otherwise.
Darktide does it well.
>Lasgun- hits like a .50 BMG against unarmored enemies... But has no penetration beyond your first target, decent-ish against armor but hardly "armor piercing". So when the horde of Heretics is charging you, you can drop them quickly but you need to shoot every single one of them. (Not that hard to do since it has a decent rof)
>Autoguns- act like you'd expect a 5.56 or whatever to. Takes multiple shots to down an unarmored* enemy, but penetrates and will damage a few other ones behind them too. Magdumping the horde of morons can kill a bunch at once. Not very good against armor, unless it's one of the bigger boolet ones
*Said unarmored people are insane fanatics that can't feel pain, they won't stop until they're dead.
All things considered Darktide is probably the best overall representation of how 40k guns should feel that I've seen.
Modern firearms blow off limbs occasionally too.
Forget the power of technology and science, for so much has been forgotten, never to be relearned. Perhaps even smokeless powder has been forgotten in the grimdark ignorant future where science is despised and human knowledge is a rotting corpus of rote learning. It would explain the short tabletop weapons ranges!
well think about how a lasgun would work, even if it didn't turn the impact area into plasma like pulse lasers do it would superheat your precious bodily fluids and the resulting steam explosion would probably be more explosive than a ballistic weapon of similar energy
>and the resulting steam explosion would probably be more explosive than a ballistic weapon of similar energy
But what you described requires exponentially more energy not the same energy.
A laser with similar energy to a rifle bullet is going to do frick all to armor, clothing, it won't even be reliably debilitating against flesh.
>A laser with similar energy to a rifle bullet is going to do frick all to armor,
a laser with the same energy as a rifle will do about the same damage as a rifle
it certainly would not simply cauterize the wound but leave a wide crater due to the flashboiling of the water inside of the cells
>a laser with the same energy as a rifle will do about the same damage as a rifle
Holy shit go back right this second you noguns moron.
>hurrr a 5k joule laser pulse won't do any damage hurrr
brainrotted
>5kj as a measure of a normal rifle bullet when the three most common cartridges in the world have a point blank energy of 1.7, 2.0, and 3.5
>Using israeliteLs at ALL as a measurement
>STILL insisting that kinetic and thermal penetrations require even vaguely similar energy
Holy FRICK noguns go back IMMEDIATELY
it's 38,000 years in the future it's not unreasonable to suggest a less than 2x increase in energy out of an average service rifle
>waaa u use unit i dont like :,,,(
cope
>thermal and kinetic penetration aren't le same!
yeah nobody was saying that moron. the wound would obviously have different characteristics but there's no escaping the consequences of flash boiling body fluids from a 5kJ laser pulse. shut the frick up dumbass
Just use a mirror.
2x makes no difference when 99% of energy can be redirected with a shiny coating
shiny coatings wouldn't stay shiny for long on the battlefields where the guard is typically found and also mirrors don't have 100% efficiency so eventually your very visible mirror suit will be melted by the fire of the hundred guardsmen your suit attracted
mirror is literally useless for stopping lasers
it would shatter in a millisecond from the energy of a laser
even if it was a chrome coating, it would need to be spinning rapidly to continuously feed new material into the path of the laser as the laser burns away the micron-thick reflective material
any laser strong enough to burn through metal would have no trouble with any reflective coating
>it's 38,000 years in the future it's not unreasonable to suggest a less than 2x increase in energy out of an average service rifle
You massive fricking lying gorilla Black person, we were talking about the objective effects comparing the impact of a laser with the impact of a bullet, and you made a general statement comparing lasers and rifle bullets.
>cope
Post your gun with timestamp, out of towner.
>yeah nobody was saying that moron.
You misquote me then you pedantically say "I didn't say those exact words" you lying homosexual.
>there's no escaping the consequences of flash boiling body fluids from a 5kJ laser pulse.
The original comparison was thus
>(a laser weapon) would probably be more explosive than a ballistic weapon of similar energy
>a laser with the same energy as a rifle will do about the same damage as a rifle
That's the original comparison you fricking wiener smoker, that a laser that delivers a given amount of energy will do "about the same damage" or significantly more damage, than a bullet that delivers the same energy.
The first reason you're obviously moronic is that two BULLETS of the same energy but different shape and scale don't even have to produce wounds that are within an order of magnitude of each other in terms of size OR debilitating effect, and if you knew anything about lasers you'd know that there's about four orders of magnitude difference between the various forms an actual laser can take in regards to terminal effect. Four orders of magnitude might be underselling it, actually.
A laser's contact point, the duration of contact in which the energy is delivered, and the effects of various pulses can EACH have variance of an order of magnitude or more. If you knew anything about anything you'd know that 5KJ (your massively moronic, gay, wiener sucking figure you pulled out of your ass) delivered over 500nm as opposed to 2000nm, both realistic figures, is going to behave very differently.
nta but an instense (ridiculously intense) enough laser can make people and stuff explode from stuff vaporizing inside and creating pressure bubbles
not gonna happen to a metal wall, but an arm definitely goes explodo.
NTA
the issue is that would require an extremely large amount of energy, and is irrelevant when making a direct comparisons with ballistics when they are at a similar threshold. unless you start changing things like environmental factors it's a completely useless fact.
The problem is he said with the same energy. It takes a hell of a lot more energy to burn something than it does to poke a hole through it.
>w-we were
YOU were. my first post literally said
>steam explosion would probably be more explosive than a ballistic weapon of similar energy
everything else you mentioned was a conversation you were either having with someone else or in your own head
>p-post gun with timestamp
because nobody's at work at 8:30. also post yours
>The original comparison was thus
>posts my original claim
>then his own, made up original claim
concession accepted
>500nm as opposed to 2000nm
do we know the wavelength of the lasgun? no? meaningless distinction. we know that the lasgun can blow off limbs in lore, therefore I'm right. QED and cope
>my first post literally said
Exactly what I said it did you illiterate Black person.
>also post yours
timestamp, c**tflap.
>concession accepted
Failure to respond to any point, failure to post any evidence.
My points function perfectly well no matter which of your moronic statements we go off of, because they were both wrong.
>do we know the wavelength of the lasgun? no? meaningless distinction.
Not a meaningless distinction for the claim you made, moron, because you could be, and are, wrong about the fricking energy level.
>we know that the lasgun can blow off limbs in lore
Oh it's a shame that your claim was about energy equivalency being a predictor of similar (or more!) damage in the case of lasers vs rifle rounds of similar energy then, you dumb frick.
>Exactly what I said it did
except it didn't, explain that
>timestamp, c**tflap
doesn't look like you posted a gun? strange because you should have posted a gun by now like I did. Also post body
>Failure to respond to any point,
refuted your argument handily, your failure to accept this reinforces your concession. post gun also
>Not a meaningless distinction for the claim you made
that a thermal (laser) impact would produce a steam explosion? yeah pretty meaningless. cope and post gun/body
>similar (or more!) damage
quote this and then post gun and body
>g-go back
you first and also post gun and post body
>except it didn't, explain that
>a laser with the same energy as a rifle will do about the same damage as a rifle
>even if it didn't turn the impact area into plasma like pulse lasers do it would superheat your precious bodily fluids and the resulting steam explosion would probably be more explosive than a ballistic weapon of similar energy
Black person.
>doesn't look like you posted a gun?
No timestamp means nothing.
>refuted your argument handily
You havent responded to about a dozen points comparing laser wounding characteristics to bullets, nor have you provided any actual evidence about your claims.
>that a thermal (laser) impact would produce a steam explosion?
Cope by claiming you never said what you said, homosexual.
>probably be more explosive than a ballistic weapon of similar energy
keyword
>more explosive
not
>more damaging
take ur meds
>You havent responded to about a dozen points comparing laser wounding characteristics to bullets, nor have you provided any actual evidence about your claims.
because those were not touched on in any of my original posts. why have you not posted guns yet? Post your guns. Post your guns right now or you admit you're wrong and need to go to reddit. And post body while ur at it
You said the following
>a laser with the same energy as a rifle will do about the same damage as a rifle
here
You're never going to get away from it.
>because those were not touched on in any of my original posts.
Yes your argument IS full of holes, thanks for admitting it.
>Post your guns.
No timestamp.
>You said the following
that literally isn't my post lmao
>no guns
I accept your concession.
>that literally isn't my post lmao
Dont believe you, it's the easiest thing in the world to spoof.
>I accept your wiener.
No timestamp, no gun.
By the way, feel free to start sharing pictures of 1kj laser injuries any time now.
>Dont believe you
Don't care, I accept your concession
>Still hasn't posted guns
I accept your concession
>Don't care
Don't need you to care gay, but you obviously do or you wouldn't have previously posted about it.
>Still hasn't posted guns
You never posted with timestamp. Invalid.
btfo
I accept your concession btw. now post ur guns with timestamp
>btfo
Yes, you were, by your inability to make a single coherent argument or respond to a single point.
>now post ur guns with timestamp
Wow! all it took you was what, three full days! Lol, now you want to stand on principle. Suck start my antique duck gun.
>argues with 2 people for days, thinks it's 1 (schizo)
>takes 3 days to post any guns
>seethes
I accept your concession
put grandpa's wallhanger back jayden
>p-post 1kj laser injuries!
that would require an antipersonnel lethal laser weapon that exists irl so the closest ur gonna get is locksneed's ATHENA burning a hole in a truck
>you didnt post gun till you did
I posted a gun immediately after your first valid gunpost. You took three days to post gun while shitting up the board.
>P-please forget what I said before
>H-h-here's a different laser completely incomparable to what we're talking about
So you admit you're just full of shit and have nothing to go off of. Excellent.
>i-it wasn't valid!
Seethe. It was valid because I said so. You can cope all you want lol.
>>P-please forget what I said before
What who said? Oh yeah I forgot everyone in the thread who disagrees with u is the same person. Take your meds
>So you admit you're just full of shit and have nothing to go off of. Excellent.
I posted a high powered weaponized laser burning a hole in a truck. Can you produce any evidence that high powered lasers don't do any damage? No? I accept your concession. End of
>It was valid because I said so
Black personbrained logic.
>Oh yeah I forgot everyone in the thread who disagrees with u is the same person. Take your meds
Troonbrained logic
>I posted a high powered weaponized laser burning a hole in a truck
Shame that has nothing to do with your claims, homosexual, ATHENA is a 30 Kilowatt laser, and we are and always were discussing the comparison of lasers delivering the same energy as a rifle. How many seconds was that laser active? At 30 Kilojoules a second, you want to compare what a similarly energetic bullet would do?
Picunrelated you dropped your dildo.
>It wasn't valid because it didn't contain the text I wanted
jewbrained logic
>Everyone in this thread is the same person except me
schizobrained logic
>ATHENA is a 30 Kilowatt laser,
And 40k is 38k years from now. The IG 4th edition codex directly stated 19mJ of energy out of a lasgun, so basically I accept your concession
>y-you dropped your dildo
projection
>And 40k is 38k years from now. The IG 4th edition codex directly stated 19mJ of energy out of a lasgun
Irrelevant when we were comparing, and only comparing, lasers to rifle rounds of the same energy
>Every person
Lol more like "Two" people arguing along the same lines, one of which miraculously vanished as soon as you decided you couldn't defend the point anymore. Hardly a grand conspiracy, Black personhomosexual.
So to sum up
>You claimed any laser delivering similar energy would do similar damage to a rifle round (unproven)
>You claimed that a laser would produce a more explosive injury than a rifle round of the same energy (unproven)
>You accidentally guessed at 5KJ being normal for a modern rifle round (moronation)
>You then argued it was maybe, probably average in 40k (disproven)
>You, for whatever reason (probably begging for pictures off discord) took three days to post gun with timestamp.
>You posted a picture of a 30KW laser burning it's way through a car hood and acted as if this was relevant to any point you had made (nonsense)
>You snorkeled entire barrels of wiener, which is your daily routine.
>You claimed any laser delivering similar energy would do similar damage to a rifle round
I did not, my first post was
>>You claimed that a laser would produce a more explosive injury than a rifle round of the same energy
common sense, rifles don't cause steam explosions. you're moronic if you don't get this. next
>>You accidentally guessed at 5KJ being normal for a modern rifle round (moronation)
>nooo you can't just guess
.500 s&w is 3.9kj, so a large magnum rifle round is probably more
>>You then argued it was maybe, probably average in 40k
below average maybe lmao
>>You, for whatever reason (probably begging for pictures off discord) took three days to post gun with timestamp.
you can see it's the same gun I posted earlier but go off
>>You posted a picture of a 30KW laser burning it's way through a car hood and acted as if this was relevant to any point you had made (nonsense)
and yet you have no counterpoint
>>You snorkeled entire barrels of wiener, which is your daily routine.
/projection
so to sum up:
>you have no guns except grandpa's wallhanger
>you post on reddit
>you're a paranoid schizophrenic
>the codex btfos you
>you are a projecting homosexual
done and dusted you should have known better than to argue with your betters
>I did not,
You did.
>nooo you can't just guess
You should know that kind of thing off hand you dumb Black person.
>common sense, rifles don't cause steam explosions
Goalpost shift to "steam explosion"
Tissue that has not been damaged in any way has not been "exploded"
>.500 s&w is 3.9kj, so a large magnum rifle round is probably more
What do you mean probably, don't you fricking know? Do you even know the names of the bullets you'd want to look up? Do you know anything at all about bullets?
>below average maybe lmao
Disproven by pictures above.
>you can see it's the same gun I posted earlier but go off
Nothing about the first picture matters, it doesn't exist for the purposes of /k/.
>and yet you have no counterpoint
There's no point to counter, a 30KW laser is incomparable in energy to a rifle round, which is what we're comparing.
>/projection
Classic troon cope
You have no points proven, no evidence posted, every post filled with more basic errors, fuddlore, and guesswork, you've self destructed publicly, how embarrassing.
>You did
Source?
>You should know that kind of thing off hand you dumb Black person
Source?
>Goalpost shift
false
steam explosions are explosions and that was my original claim. you can disagree, that's okay, you're wrong
>What do you mean probably, don't you fricking know
umm, sweaty, don't you know you're supposed to be a human reloading manual?
go back to plebbit
>Disproven by pictures above
false
>Nothing about the first picture matters, it doesn't exist for the purposes of /k/.
ironic a redditor says this
>There's no point to counter, a 30KW laser is incomparable in energy to a rifle round, which is what we're comparing
the laser is more powerful than a rifle round. the damage is done using a different mechanism than a kinetic weapon. You are arguing this point with nobody
>t-troon
cope u lost
>no points proven
proved ur schizophrenic and wrong
>no evidence posted
posted evidence of u being schizophrenic and wrong
>basic errors
my basic error was conversing with you like something resembling a human when you deserved a soijak and being ignored
>fuddlore and guesswork
cope, my guesses are more accurate than your entire argument
>h-how embarrassing
seething
>m-muh powerlevel wank
cope, it is written. and GW has stated a megathule is a megajoule. I accept your concession
>GW has stated a megathule is a megajoule
Got a source for that beyond "I saw a fellow powerwanker saying it"?
cope, seethe, ur wrong, and this thread will archive with me as the victor
>Laser will damage more than a rifle round of the same energy
>I- I- mean I didnt say that- It will, uh, explode more-
>n-n-no it only counts if it's a steam explosion
>Five kilojoules is normal for a rifle right?
>I - I uh mean it's normal for 40k, probably, in my head
>500SW that's a big gun right?
>I meant Magnum rifle. Even though I said ballistic weapon with similar energy, I meant only giant magnum rifles....
>Here's a laser discharge 100 times larger than what we're discussing, no I dont know anything about it, I just googled big laser.
>Look 40k has big number, forget what I said before, if 40k has a big number, that means that I win whatever I was talking about before
hahahahahaha What a dumb homosexual you are. You thought you could blend in here and every step of the way your lack of basic knowledge outed you.
You have no laser wounding examples. You don't even have laser wounding theory. You nervously try to distort the conversation to a 40k numbers contest because that's where you're comfortable, even though it has nothing to do with the general statements you made. You will never be a real shitposter. You are a Sci Fi forum debater in a gun forum costume. Your flimsy attempts to copy board culture and insults are incredibly obvious to anyone who's spent more than a day here.
You will never be a woman either, though strangely, you also have no balls.
>continues seething even after being conclusively proven wrong
lmao u love to see it
any further copes will be met with a soijak
>any further copes will be met with a soijak
So you admit that you're nothing more than a dumb shit-flinging monkey.
>he's got no laser wounding pictures
>not even one
>Claim bullets and lasers of equal energy to the same damage
>Claim lasers will cause more "explosive" effects than a bullet of similar energy
>Throw out 5KJ as a figure, probably realizing that a 1KJ laser blast, or .5 KJ laser blast, wouldn't have any significant "explosive" effects whatsoever
>Keep trying to divert back to 40k weapons as if you didnt make generalizing statements about ballistic weapons vs lasers of ANY energy level, meaning the comparison to real world intermediate cartridges is absolutely relevant
>Try desperately to pretend an unknown length of burn from a 30kw laser makes your point for you, pretending your point is "something something giant laser better than small bullet" when this entire time we've been comparing bullets and lasers of the same energy
Tissue that isn't damaged at all is definitionally not "exploded". Tissue that has been accelerated past it's elastic deformation limits and shredded by an expanding field of metal has been "exploded".
You admitted yourself there is absolutely no real world data for you to base your outrageous claims on.
>Source? Source? Source?
real reddit posting hours.
>a laser with the same energy as a rifle will do about the same damage as a rifle
it certainly would not simply cauterize the wound but leave a wide crater due to the flashboiling of the water inside of the cells
>steam explosions are explosions and that was my original claim.
Show me the terminal effects on flesh from a 1KJ laser discharge, the only thing that would back up your claim that it would be more significant than a bullet's.
>umm, sweaty, don't you know you're supposed to be a human reloading manual?
He says, trying to excuse himself for being wrong by a massive margin every single time he's volunteered information about a bullet, even though he could easily google it.
You don't even know the names of the bullets you're trying to reference. You probably googled "big bullets" earlier to find the .500
>The IG 4th edition codex directly stated 19mJ of energy out of a lasgun
You are one of those crazy fanboys who wank over power levels and constantly make shit up and rely on hearsay from other similar fans in a constant masturbatory circle aren't you? It's not the 4th Ed, it's the Uplifting Primer, and it's technobabble to imply magazine compatibility. It's not megajoules, but megathules, and interpreting it as megajoules doesn't even make sense in the context to which it's applied.
Still waiting on those 1kj laser injuries.
Nta but 5000 joules is a lot of energy, more than a gram of TNT, it will create a shockwave similar to that delivered by a bullet. This will happen whatever material it hits, since the first few molecules in a layer of material will be heated to a ridiculous extreme and vaporize in any case. Since the lasgun simply emits photons, this reduces the engineering burden of needing to contain the discharge of a chemical explosion and it could handle far more energy.
This is 5 grams of TNT apparently.
Higher than our figure, but not nice to have near your body, and it is your flesh that is exploding. The laser is not just scifi, we already use it in manufacturing, if we can get it working, it could have real practical applications.
I think I read somewhere that lasguns don't just emit a single beam, but it's a strobed beam that allegedly makes them better at punching holes in things. I guess whatever GW writer put that bit in read that strobing lasers makes them ablate layers off things faster than a constant beam in the same issue of Popular Mechanics as I did 20 years ago.
Lasguns don't come in just one pattern, they're more like AR15s
You got your "standard" issue lasguns, then there's ones that pack more punch and ones that are lighter for paratroopers, to name a few variants.
I'm not saying that they're all a single beam but I'm not saing that strobes don't exist either
Pulse lasers make terrible weapons because of dwell time.
Pulsed-train lasers are 10 to 20x more power efficient for the same damage than continuous beam because they vaporize a spot and let the expanding plasma get out of the way instead of pointlessly trying to shoot through it.
This makes sense, a lot of smoke and dust is generated, the expanding gas will clear it, but it takes a split second.
Different pulses could have different purposes. To begin with a lower energy beam at a different frequency heats up the air, causing it to expand and clear any smoke and dust from the path, followed by pulses to burn away clothing and finally the 5000+ joule pulse. All this happens in a split second.
For more possible energy autism, it's canon that you can overload the lasgun's powerpack to turn it into a makeshift bomb. And when you do so it explodes with the force of a krak grenade which is an oversized high explosive grenade. The US Mk. 3 has 250g of TNT in it, and the lasgun's powerpack generally can hold around 100 shots. So 1 lasgun shot could possibly be equal to 2.5g of TNT, meaning the one shot has about 10 KJ of energy. Which is a lot.
>Krak Grenades use a shaped explosive charge capable of punching holes in armoured targets
I'm guessing it acts more like thermite or a Chinese made lithium ion battery, not releasing all its energy at once like a bomb, just burning very hot, enough to melt metal.
Hilarious ignorant. Krak grenades are obviously HEAT grenades. But you don't know the first thing about military technology so you make up some random bullshit.
They could be HESH or something else like a primitive HEAT with no liner. Before recent lore krak was an unknown effect and shaped charges were called out a few times as lost technology or perfidious Tau engineering.
Wrong.
The folks at Games Workshop is almost permanently stuck in the WW2 era, so it's not completely unreasonable for them to know about shaped charges. Hell, they decided lasguns were allowed to behave like assault rifles instead of being battle rifles a few decades back, so you can say they have reached the 80s.
I grant you that, but it's just probably GW trying to understand how shaped charges work.
I meant more in the sense that they likely didn't know much about weapons when they came up with krak grenades. I assume that their knowledge has increased over the years, simply because that kind of information is readily available, and there are bound to be tons of war and weapon enthusiasts among both the fans and the people working on the franchise today. In other words, retcons have likely changed some generic sci-fi weapons into real life equivalents.
Nah, it wasn't GW misunderstanding a real weapon, it was just a scifi weapon before the retcon. They do say some stupid shit about real weapons though. Your pic is from a very modern edition, after Ap was changed to save modifier, and damage was added, and they still can't figure out the words "shaped charge" when it obviously would need to be as-described, but they also forgot that their space marines weren't inspired by starcraft, and had to hire real nerds to tell them what their own products should look like. Was it 8th when they did that but still had blast markers? cause they were removed too after a bit.
>2nd Ed is a modern edition
The shit nu-40k fans say lmao.
What? I don't think that whoever created them knew shit about AT weapons.
y'all are morons, they were retconned into a HEAT grenade in 6th edition, but in 3rd edition the core rulebook and SM codex both described them "a grenade designed to implode", shaped charges were never archaeotech, krak were just the simplest and cheapest grav weapon in the imperium.
that was in universe propaganda about a ahndful of space marine occasionally getting that old, that blew out of control during the matt ward era, it's grimdark- they do die faster than they can be made, the imperium is on a terminal downslide. The galaxy is just huge, an organisation that alrge has literal millenia of institutional inertia.
>that was in universe propaganda
Not really, no. If they had high casualty rates, outside of the obvious massive, apocalyptic battles that happen every once in a while that end up decimating several chapters, they simply wouldn't exist, due to logistics. By nature, they have to have very low casualty ratings, given how few marines they can produce, what an arduous process it is, how they need to survive scout training and given that many chapters often spend a whole decade between recruiting runs.
If the average chapter tries to maintain about a thousand marines, and can be assumed to spend most of their time either in transit or in a campaign, then it's only natural to assume their casualties are very low. There's also the issue of Space Marines being far more hardy that they're shown as being in most fiction. I mean, they're described as being able to survive ridiculous wounds, thanks to their multiple organs and their suit being able to keep them in stasis even when blown to pieces, but that's almost never shown in lore. They die to normal human wounds most of the time, which isn't accurate according to the lore.
That also goes for the orks, who are supposed to survive and be able to regenerate from crippling wounds, but still die to regular injuries.
The other issue is that there are only about a million marines, so for them even serve a purpose, they need to be ridiculously effective, given that the Imperium has about a million inhabited planets. That's one marine per planet. If they weren't absurdly overpowered, then even a million of them would still be nothing but a fart in the wind, yet they're always there during the most crucial battles to turn the tide.
The Imperium is a rotting bureaucracy rapidly dying from the inside. "It's irrational to do it X way" isn't a valid argument, especially when you're trying to retcon in some redditry to a grimdark ignorant unscientific shithole.
It's not about being the Imperium being irrational, you irrational frick, it's about pure logistics. The space marines exist. They wouldn't exist if they were dying like mobiks, or they had spent 10k years being unable to replenish their numbers. What the frick kind of moronic argument is that?
HEAT is indeed a lost tech and used all the time. Vanquisher cannons used to be HEAT before being lost and then replaced by APFSDS (which is coincidentally also considered very high tech) and other tech, but apparently nobody was smart enough to figure this out despite krak weaponry being commonplace. The Adeptus Mechanicus, being what it is, has no idea what its doing, and presumably being allowed to scale up shaped charges is only available to the highest ranks.
>HEAT is indeed a lost tech and used all the time.
That would be absurd, though. I mean, HEAT is old tech from WW2. There's no way they wouldn't have reinvented that shit, without it being considered heretical, given how simplistic it is. I mean, it doesn't even have any electronics, and predates the transistor. It's just a mechanical device.
Innovation is heresy (unless you're a well-connected Magos). They literally can't legally reinvent anything, not even a fork. It all has to be "oh, we re-examined this STC and it revealed new insights" or "we found a new STC that contains my newest research".
And any magos or other connected person would have been able to recreate it over the past 10k years and standardize it. The higher tech made from STCs make sense, given that some of it is so complicated that it appears as magic to them. It's like giving a smart phone to a tribal man living in a rainforest, and asking him to recreate it. That's not the case for a shaped charge, given that it's just explosives and a liner.
We're talking about an organization where simply bolting on a different set of guns to a tank (Predator Annihilator) is heresy, and took 200 years to decide it was not. This is the way the AdMech works. Unless shaped charges are a Magos's pet project, there's no possibility that shaped charges can be used for anything other than in the forms they already are in.
On another note, how to STCs actually work? I understand the concept behind them, as a digital template that could simply be printed out if you had some kind of STC 3D printer or factory, but is that how the Imperium uses them? I mean, do they insert the STC template into a machine that is over ten thousands years old to print new shit, or do they use the STCs as a template or blueprint which they create a dedicated factory for? If it's the latter, then they obviously know how technology works, which goes against the lore, even if the lore on how shit is built is very vague, given that they have tens of thousands of forge worlds.
Also, given that the Mechanicus loves to enhance themselves and are dedicated to technology, engineering and cybernetics, they're bound to experiment with shit. From what I recall, they're also somewhat exempt from accusations of heresy, given how important they are to the Imperium.
STC is a catch-all. The "STC" that the Imperium uses are merely blueprints that were created by a real STC. An actual functioning STC would create a new golden age of mankind if they bothered to utilize it. It's not that they don't know how technology works, it's that they have a religious approach to it.
You can take a STC technology and stick it together in new ways - if you're a high ranking techpriest.
You can secretly test and research (because research is actually unquestionably heretical) and then present the finished product out of nowhere - if you're a high ranking techpriest.
You can weld a gun to a tank and call it a new design - if you're a high ranking techpriest.
You can load slightly more powder to your autogun's cartridge - if you're a high ranking techpriest.
You can kick a malfunctioning toaster in a way that's not specified in the catechismd of percussive maintenance - if you're a high ranking techpriest.
You can't openly do any of those things if you're not a high ranking techpriest (or a Space Marine).
Explosives, lasers, and bullets all disperse energy differently. You absolutely cannot compare TNT to bullets energy-per-energy.
post guns lmao
continued, c**t.
You'd know that same 5KJ delivered over the course of .5 seconds, .1 seconds, or .01 seconds, is going to have a massively different effect as well, OBVIOUSLY.
But, you don't know anything about anything. So, lets look at your statement:
>a laser with the same energy as a rifle will do about the same damage as a rifle
Here's a brief overview of the relevant terminal ballistics for our homosexual noguns friend: The Ballistic resistance of a material, such as a uniform, a magazine of ammunition a piece of armor, a layer of skin, muscle, or bone, does not actually have a great deal in common with that object's THERMAL resistance. Meaning it would be astronomically unlikely that the penetration figures would match up even remotely closely. Consider the fact that hardened steel and mild steel have dramatically different ballistic resistances, but much much closer thermal resistance.
There is also the problem of "bloom", i.e. while a kinetic impactor tends to deliver the majority of it's energy in a more or less straight line, a thermal discharge tends to spread out exponentially, which is why red hot weights placed on large pieces of ice create holes larger than their diameter. You might think this is some great thing when it comes to wounding characteristics, but the problem comes in when you've only got the energy of a bullet, and you're uselessly melting more uniform, air gap, skin, and surface tissue. More burning in the first three inches of contact (clothes included) is not worth a drop in penetration when it comes to quickly and reliably debilitating an enemy.
Honestly I don't even know where you got this ridiculous notion that you could equate, or nearly equate, or sort of kind of equate, or vaguely equate, the terminal effects, whether in penetration, trauma, or speed of killing, of random lasers with bullets on an energy per energy basis.
see
end of
>Doesn't respond to any point
>"Das dee end I win"
go back you greasy Black person.
>it's 38,000 years in the future it's not unreasonable to suggest a less than 2x increase in energy out of an average service rifle
Aside from how little this has to do with your argument. Not at all, recoil is the limiting factor. Unless autoguns secretly have high tech like inertia dampers we've already reached peak muzzle energy out of the normal bullets that autoguns use.
>Unless autoguns secretly have high tech like inertia dampers
they probably do have something like this honestly. they handwave tiny female inquisitors using full-size bolters by saying they have "grav-coins" attached which make them weigh less. also i was mostly talking about the lasgun when I said "service rifle", maybe I should have said "service weapon". Anyway yeah I don't think 5kJ is unreasonable out of a lasgun
this is more due to the fact that lasguns are fired en masse
the sheer volume of pew-pew produced means that at least one of them is hitting the gaps in their armor, their eye pieces, or just wearing it out from repeated impacts
Oh, also, I agree that Marine wank is obnoxious, but Custodes are another Loyalist Power-Armor faction (even if their "Power Armor" is "Power Armor Plus One"). They *are* Space Marine wank.
Lore custodes aren't, fieldable custodes definitely are.
Depends, do they have helmets on, are they wounded, are they of a founding chapter, are they named? This is important to establish power levels.
Two of them have helmets on and have no wounds and nice clean armor.
But one of them has no helmet and has a big ol cut on his face and battle worn armor that gives him an extra intimidating appearance. He was also heard making a "badass" one-liner in reply to one of the others before jumping off a building and doing a cool superhero landing while the theme music started playing.
>Two of them have helmets
Those die to stray bullets.
>one of them has no helmet and has a big ol cut on his face and battle worn armor
And this one wins the war singlehandely.
Space marines are at their peak when they are lieutenants or sergeants with no helmets and a grievous injury. If they get namedropped they are certain to have plot armor and pull off incredible feats of logic defying bullshit.
>But one of them has no helmet and has a big ol cut on his face and battle worn armor that gives him an extra intimidating appearance.
It's over for russians
You'd need a full killteam to defeat the Russians (aka 5 Astartes).
Horus conquered a world by teleporting down alone and firing a grand total of one round, so I'd say yes. They just need to reach monke.
I don't think that that will work
A primarch with archeotech is not the same as a space marine
He shot the planet's ruler in the face and the locals decided they didn't feel like fighting.
If they're Iron Hands, yes.
>t. Iron Hands enjoyer
Must be difficult to be without a gene daddy...
The meltdown when all the loyalist primarchs come back but Ferrus is conspicuously absent (Unless they pull some shenanigans) is gonna be hilarious. Even Blood Angels see Sanguinius in dream form from time to time. Seems like Ferrus is DEAD dead like Horus outside his ghost appearances in TEATD.
Depends on who’s writing the book.
Oh, this is fun because I get to be right both in and out of metaphor.
It's Marines vs Guard. Here's how the game goes, the Marines kill 500 guardsmen but lose the game on points because there are four objectives. The Marines declare that they killed more people and thus really won, the Guard actually wins because they actually won and actually hold the actual objectives, which is what actually winning actually is actually. Fricking gay.
Depends on what lore interpretation. But it could be anywhere from they march on the Kremlin as nigh untouchable gods to they slowly attack Russia's most critical hubs until the whole house crumbles.
There's no way they could carry the ammo to do it
Even if they could restore hp with melee kills a la Titus, I doubt they'll get very far unless they start at Donetsk (perhaps via drop pod, but then why not just drop them on Moscow or the Kremlin?). Then they rip through the city, board the first train to moscow and it's over
am I the only person who thinks the front profile space marine art looks like some shit you'd see in a bargain bin coloring book at the dollar general?
How do Spess Mehreens reload when you don't see them carrying extra magazines?
You only see grenades or an extra knife but never extra magazines
Their oversized thigh armor has slots for mags
You have to look at the pre-30k mareen art where the power creep converting marines from roided Rangers to divine IFVs began. They have a couple spare mags on belts.
Ofc this is 40k so melee is the real weapon.
An Adeptus Astartes Space Marine would absolutely crush the Russian military. Not through force of arms but through command. Any single one of them. You wouldn't need three.
The only legion which could single handedly stop russia with 3 marines, maybe even 1, would be word bearers unironicaly.
3 Nightlords and about 2.5 weeks. For the first time OP is the only person in this thread who doesn't fellate massive wieners.
The real question is what 3 space marines would do if they came back in time to present day Earth. Try to find the enperor?
most space marines would have done time as a scout marine at one point, and the codex astertes probably has some wisdom on the matter
not time travel, but strategems on how to approach being stranded in an unsusual place with no communications
so probably lay low, observe whats going on, find out where in the universe they are, and how they can survive with only what they have on them
so if they keep their heads low and observe, they could at least figure out that they are what the 40k imperium would consider a feudal world with no single ruling polity and primitive tech
they might figure out that these humans are at least partially related to the imperium, they wouldnt be speaking any existing dialect of low or high gothic, but they might recognize enough individual phrases spoken between them to understand that at one point these people were part of the imperium but enough time had passed for significant drift to occur
they would come to the conclusion that they are stranded on a backwater planet, long isolated from the imperium, and even though they have the god-given right to use whatever the planet has they are going to have the be careful how they use those resources if these poor humans dont even know they belong to the emperor yet
followed by one of them recognizing a musuem piece from the holy terra, but still in its original place and not yet a ruin
and then getting on their knees and damning them all the hell as they realize they are in the 2nd millenia long before even the dark ages
40k books and 40k fans just throw around words like stealth as if just saying the phrase "They're really good at stealth" makes it any less impossible for brightly painted giants made of more metal than a sedan to be "stealthy" while leaving two foot long, half foot deep footprints everywhere.
they probably have invisibility cloaks and sound dampeners and little robot brooms that sweep their footprints up. space magic bro
Raven Guard gene seed allows for some of them to become invisible
Depending on how knowledgeable the individual marine is, they *might* be able to figure out they're in the Sol system from what equipment is used, as the Adeptus Mechanicus keeps a fragmented database of vehicles stretching all the way back to the immediate post-WWII era.
>Would three (3) Adeptus Astartes be enough
No, even in the books they die from over confidence. One of the Gal Vorbak died from a wooden spear to his throat.
Least detached from reality space marine player.
I don't know of any weapon that the Russians (or anyone else for that matter) might possess in this day and age that would be capable of penetrating space marine armour
40k power scaling is wild, there are shonen anime protagonists that would struggle in that setting
If used on it's intended orbital drop / teleportation assault?
just about an hour.
Fluff wise spess mehreens are specialist commandos equipped to the point they are walking tanks.
The Codex Astartes basically turns then into a 1000 man hit & run specialist batallion. Their concentrated force is high enough as to be basically unstoppable on single objective missions. "average" chapters have all the gear necessary to either destroy vital enemy structures, sequentially, faster than the enemy can react, assassinate their leaders outright or simply hold a strategic point against nearly anything they can throw.
But with only three marines, regardless of equipment? Only thing they can do teleport or orbital drop into the putinbunker and ice him, absolutely nothing they russians have can stop them. Absolutely nothing any country's internal security has really.
Then it's a question of how they come back without getting missiled a few kms away.
With this said, most chapters do not actually adhere to the space book and some are large enough to hold the entire frontline by themselves.
And also, teleports and orbital drops are basic utilities to spess mehreen lore. A single TP station would let ukrs pull literally everything the marines could with current tech levels.
test
02659 49342 03572 66341 94622
Not those three
If the objective is to get monke, sure they could. Send in 3 pre-Heresy Alpha Legionnaires or 3 Rave Guard. Shouldn't take either more than a month
Taking down the whole army? Probably not, but they could eliminate the leadership and make the army a mess.
Would they have the logistics? A heavy stubber is more or less a browning m2. Enough artillery would stop them.
one astartes can solo the earth
Only because he finds the emprah who is already secretly controlling things behind the scenes, and hugs him.
If you're looking for someone to lead a battle of attrition with the goal of returning to maneuver warfare, you could do worse than brothers of the IV. They might be callous to their own sides' losses, but the Iron Warriors would have Ukraine's 1991 borders restored by Christmas and Russia defanged for generations to come.
as in strike the kremlin and try to assassinate putin? sure
fight on the frontlines? no, a artillery or AT will get them
I mean they regularly deploy around that many and win in universe, so I don't see how the monke legion would be a problem
That's in-universe propaganda. A Mareen is worth about 10 guardsmen in battle or 100 in an Ecclesiarchy narrative script. They're Space VDV intended to intimidate rebel governors on frontier worlds without posing a risk to any Solar Segmentum hives.
I don't believe you
You don't have to. I think it's funny the in-universe propaganda of early editions delivered with unsubtle tongue-in-cheek undertones has become the out of universe lore of modern ones. It's classic marvelisation.
>You don't have to. I think
It all stops right there, thanks for posting your uninteresting drivel.
>nooo you can't have fun! you must obey my headcanon!
Oldlore Ecclesiarchs were disgusted by the mutant VDV. They saw them as propaganda figures who got too uppity.
>you must obey my headcanon!
Says enough about how buckbroken you are when you're trying to pull this one now.
Old chaos rulebooks have a story about a handful of space marines fighting pillaging turkic steppe mongols
I started reading Ciaphas Cain novels and it made me realise how fricked the imperium is technologically. Apparently not even the inquisition knows what thermal imaging is. Motherfrickers can teleport across dimensions but equipping guardsmen with thermals is beyond their capability.
Tech level is one of those things that is extremely dependent on the author, there are plenty of sources that have tech that sounds like thermals or night vision (although mostly restricted to special forces and space marines). A lot of the early Ciaphas Cain novels come from the peak grimderp era as well so they should be taken with a grain of salt. Especially since they are the heavily edited memoirs of a man who alternated between grandiose bluffing and crippling imposter syndrome, he's quite explicitly not the most reliable narrator.
pretty much depends on the author and depiction, which you could say is just different parts of the imperium applying technology incorrectly. Mechanicus has some spooky good shit, and Pariah Nexus show has a Salamanders' autosenses using thermals to see civilians.
Other books have thermal+NV for IG stormtroopers.
It's a highly varied setting, but yes, the imperiums' technical knowledge is not a consistent baseline even among its elites. It's like Russian military culture with a British face.
Remember that time GW gave stats for Autoguns and Stubbers? They were fricking pathetic.
As expected of a future which has lost the concept of science and does all their engineering by rote appeals to authority.
So as usual the 40K fanboy makes a complete fool of himself and responds by turning into a gibbering schizo.
Depends on how they're deployed
> Drop Pod straight into the Kremlin
Bros would paint every wall of the Kremlin red with the occasional charred spot, probably ending the war since the government ceased to exist
> Deployed along the Frontline
They wouldn't survive 5 seconds without getting blasted by artillery, deleted by a Konkurs ATGM or stepping on an AT mine and removing 1/3rd of their body mass in an instant.
>peak no argument
>>peak no argument