>people werent saying 40k was for neckbeard losers before discord
what kind of bubble have you been living in? comparing 40k fans to furries has been going on since furries were still relevant.
Eventually you'll realize no one cares about your hobbies and the highschool peer pressure nonsense doesnt work on adults when you're socially a nobody.
Yes. But they are pretty big so they wouldn't be best suited for all modern day applications where a firearms is needed.
But the over all answer is yes. Its from the year 40'000. It would be able to pierce anything modern. Dead on laser accuracy with no recoil. Self recharging and will never run out of ammo. Will never fail torture test from your favorite Guntuber no matter how hard they try.
>Self recharging and will never run out of ammo.
Slight correction, the power cells don't just generate energy, they need a source to feed off of though since they can literally be left in sunlight or tossed in a fire that's not too hard.
>Will never fail torture test from your favorite Guntuber no matter how hard they try.
They still can fail, generally through excessive firing apparently warping the lenses but that will take a while.
>they need a source to feed off of though since they can literally be left in sunlight or tossed in a fire that's not too hard
If thats the case then the force of each shot would be absolutely pathetic as it can only output an amount of energy equal to the amount stored in the battery.
you'd be looking in that general direction, and your squad would be too, a battlefield witha gorillion guardsmen firing a volley would be a hilariously inept byzantine blinding for both sides before the other casualties started
Smokeless gunpowder has far better energy density than any currently existing battery. There's no reason to assume that this is suddenly going to reverse. We might invent some kind of super batteries in the future, but we might also invent superior chemical explosives.
>We might invent some kind of super batteries in the future, but we might also invent superior chemical explosives.
We absolutely will not make any significant leaps in inventing chemical explosives with higher energy density.
Energy density of chemical explosives is hard capped at around 17 MJ/L (gunpowders clock in at around 6-13 MJ/L) because you simply cannot store more energy in the chemical bonds of molecules per unit volume.
It's possible some of the more exotic elements can explode better but they also usually have a shelf life of seconds and explode from any stimulation at all. I kind of want
It's possible some of the more exotic elements can explode better but they also usually have a shelf life of seconds and explode from any stimulation at all. I kind of want
You guys should consider that different types of energy have differing levels of effectiveness on targets. The amount of kinetic energy in a flying bullet is pitiful, but it's enough to kill someone. Hitting a person with an equivalent power laser will only result in light burns, if anything.
>Smokeless gunpowder has far better energy density than any currently existing battery.
Are you moronic? Are you autistic? Are you autistic and moronic? You are comparing scifi technology from supposedly 41st millenia to current fricking year tech.
Propellants would be inherently much more energy dense than a lasgun's energy pack. The need to keep things solid and rechargeable means it can never match propellants, it's just a simple fact that rechargeable battery tech can't be as energetic.
Doesn't matter it's a fundamental constraint. The energy released from the difference in energy levels between electrodes can't match propellants.
4 months ago
Anonymous
I don't think you understand
If the lasgun battery pack is made with STC the 40k guys don't even know how it fricking works
Throwing it out in the sun to charge for a while could open a micro dimensional pocket to the warp to pull energy from there
Throwing it in a fire could harness zero point energy
If the ingame dudes who are making it don't know how it works, we sure as frick wouldn't either
4 months ago
Anonymous
>mfw ad mech
4 months ago
Anonymous
It's not so much that they don't understand it, as they've been teaching the way they have for so long that none of them remember what is actual maintenance and build instructions, and what is pointless bullshit they made up over ten millenia ago to make it easier to remember.
4 months ago
Anonymous
I've seen a lot of 40K fanboys twist themselves into ridiculous and bizarre heights when hyping up power levels of their setting, but this is a new one lmao.
4 months ago
Anonymous
I'm not a fan of the setting, that is just how things are
Charging it in the sun does not mean it has 21st century solar panels bolted to the side of it either. We don't know how it works because nobody in universe knows how it works either
4 months ago
Anonymous
It's really amusing how worked up some autists can get about how something that isn't realistic isn't realistic. Lasgun powerpacks are literally magic boxes that violate the laws of thermodynamics. Attempting to rationalize how the dumb things work is pure folly. Like forget just leaving them out in the sun to charge, you can stuff the damn things in your undies and trickle charge them slowly off your body heat. They're space magic and aren't supposed to make sense.
4 months ago
Anonymous
Show me the physics, bro. It's a fundamental constraint of our current technology, not of physics itself
4 months ago
Anonymous
Energy production is the result of the difference in energy levels between the reactant and product. A propellant goes from solid to gas, that's a huge difference in entropy. A battery innately changes from one substance to another similar substance, that's a small difference in energy. The way a battery works also limits this further, you're changing valencies because you're transferring electrons over. Meanwhile a chemical reaction is changing bonds, which contain several magnitudes far more energy. There are of course a few ways an lasgun's power pack can be energy dense, but it sure as hell wouldn't be because it's a battery. And before you argue about it, no this explanation is not a technology issue, it's a physics issue.
4 months ago
Anonymous
What the frick are you talking about? What does "solid to gas" even mean? Are you saying you don't get energy when you burn hydrogen because it goes from gas to liquid?
4 months ago
Anonymous
Energy production is the result of the difference in energy levels between the reactant and product. A propellant goes from solid to gas, that's a huge difference in entropy. A battery innately changes from one substance to another similar substance, that's a small difference in energy. The way a battery works also limits this further, you're changing valencies because you're transferring electrons over. Meanwhile a chemical reaction is changing bonds, which contain several magnitudes far more energy. There are of course a few ways an lasgun's power pack can be energy dense, but it sure as hell wouldn't be because it's a battery. And before you argue about it, no this explanation is not a technology issue, it's a physics issue.
I responded before reading the whole thing so let me just add that you are moronic and most portable batteries use chemical reactions to produce electricity rather than just storing electrons or w/e
4 months ago
Anonymous
>current technology
Being the operative term here. Going from a gas to a plasma would be more energy than a solid propellant to gas. You're assuming batteries as we know them are the only form they will ever be, but there's no reason to suspect they will be and we've already demonstrated batteries with much higher energy densities are possible, just not economically with current tech
4 months ago
Anonymous
Why are you dumb Black folk talking about phase transitions like that has anything to do with how much heat energy you get out of an exothermic reaction?
4 months ago
Anonymous
I hate to break it to you but that was pure theory and at no point did he mention the current state of technology. If the electrodes turn into a gas it'll escape and won't be rechargeable. If you capture the gas and store it that would be a low energy conversion because that would be a low entropy product.
There are some hurdles ss we need to overcome beyond the well known cooling and power supply/discharge issues.
The main one is atmospheric blooming. At "blow a cantaloupe sized hole in a guy via shockwaves from the material being flashed to plasma" energies, the beam will start breaking down and ionizing the atmosphere, causing the beam to be all peepeepoopoo.
The other big one is beams reflecting partially and blinding/maiming your bros, but that can probably be migitated by cycling the rifle wavelength over a narrow band and having the visor linked and cycling it's filter in tandem.
The real chicken dinner I believe is the electrolaser. Just ionize the air with a powerful, short laser pulse and send a killing lightning attack down the channel...
Thanks man, I never get to say that to anyone.
The lore pretty much explicitly tells you that they save so much on logistics that actual combat effectiveness is a secondary concern >just carry a handful of cartidges around that can be recharged with mere exposure to sun/starlight as opposed to autogun ammunition which is heavier than today's ammo
>low setting: .308 equiv >high setting: .50 BMG equiv >perfect ballistics >30+ shots per battery pack >every vehicle has an alternator to charge the packs so now your guns run on JP8 >sunlight or burn pits will also work in a pinch
the US would adopt them immediately
Lasgun is described as being able to blow fist-sized holes in humans and (with a nicely placed shot) blow of limbs. So I'd recon it's shot-per-shot on similar level as modern high-powered sniper rifle. So, like said,
anything between .308 and .50 BMG.
The only reason it is considered "weak" in WH40k is because everything else is ridiculously overpowered. The main advantage would be the logistic as it requires no ammo suplly, only field renerators/rechargers for power packs.
It should also be noted that even if they’re not amazing for 40k standards typical lasguns are excellent for killing 99% of things a guardsman is facing and are objectively better than any piece of shit stubber. If a guardsman is facing marines or involved in a waaagh/tyranid/necron/etc. invasion he’s already dead anyways and basically just a body to keep the plasma/gun team/melta/tanks/whatever alive whole they do the real work
This guy got it right, yeah a lasgun ain't that impressive, but then they ain't meant to be. They're meant to keep you busy while the artillery and bombers are getting a firing solution.
the reason that lasguns aren't all that impressive in 40k is that you're likely to be firing them at the sort of 10ft tall immortal killing machine that would make Conan look like a pussy. In that context you've got to readjust your expectations.
Lasgun is described as being able to blow fist-sized holes in humans and (with a nicely placed shot) blow of limbs. So I'd recon it's shot-per-shot on similar level as modern high-powered sniper rifle. So, like said,
anything between .308 and .50 BMG.
The only reason it is considered "weak" in WH40k is because everything else is ridiculously overpowered. The main advantage would be the logistic as it requires no ammo suplly, only field renerators/rechargers for power packs.
don't forget that you can oepsy your battery pack or lasgun into a charge powerful enough to beat the armor on most armored vehicles
but that's older Gaunts Ghost lore so idk how it is now after the moronus rift
It was never true in the actual game. Only the game being flooded with morons who are incapable of telling in-universe narration apart from third person omniscient narration, ever caused moron youtubers to say the horus heresy books are more canon than codicies and the core rules lore/ rules. Standard lasguns can't do that, and hotshot lasguns fed by a backpack sized power sources and designed to penetrate armor can ignore powered armor, but aren't any better against vehicles, even in the new gay editions. there are guard regiments that canonically use autoguns instead of lasguns if their world has a lower tech base, they're not shooting .50 BMG standard, and .308 black tips could pierce the parts of space marine power armor that are less thick, like the arms and face, because a space marine only has average RHA equivalent to an m113, there are also spots like the abdomen that are largely unarmored. Astartes need the super fast clotting blood and super fast scar tissue, they take chip damage on their actual bodies from battles all the time, even without standard weapons being overblown. powerscaling in the setting is fricked specifically because of people like dan abbnett thinking the setting is still based on DUNE, and morons who could mistake a defensive gunshot wound for having superhuman reflexes.
>low setting: .308 equiv >high setting: .50 BMG equiv
I'm suprised none of the 40k fanboys here aren't already b***hing about comparing modern munitions against the lasgun. or at least not yet. I swear 40k attracts the most autistic man children
no i'm perfectly fine with comparing 40k stuff to modern counterparts. it's just that a lot of the more autistic ones will immediately dismiss any attempt of comparing 40k weaponry to modern equivalents as the 40k ones are "more advanced" hence are obviously more powerful and cannot be quantified despite there being a lot of evidence of what they can do in lore.
i dont complain since a) different patterns of las guns operate at different power levels b) their effectiveness depends a lot on what you are shooting at and c) james workshop has never made it clear exactly how powerful they are and diff authors give different descriptions so it all just depends
i've seen a ton of arguments regarding human sized targets. a reasonable person would mostly agree that a lasgun would typically hit somewhere between .308 all the way up to a 20mm if it's a hotshot variant. there are people who will STILL argue the fact that lasguns are leaps and bounds more complicated hence CAN'T be compared even if we can easily compare damage profiles from the books/lore. these are the same people who will argue a single space marine can take out the entirety of earth's current modern military by themselves.
If we're going to analyze the hot-shot it's nowhere near that level.
Rogue trader - just a boltgun equivalent
3rd onwards - armor piercing version of a lasgun.
Role play books - somewhere in between
Of course it's the armor-piercing variant of the hotshot which is most troublesome to explain, as it's essentially just as powerful as a normal lasgun against flesh but also able to penetrate through armor with the same power as a much heavier weapon. The most reasonable explanation is that it's much like the FN 5.7×28mm, a thin focused beam that can go right through armor but has low stopping power. Luckily, due to more modern editions of tabletop 40K treating tanks like giant monstrous creatures, there is no longer any contradiction with this interpretation and the fact that the strength stat was also used to defeat vehicle armor instead of the armor-piercing stat.
You know I used to think stuff like rolling 1s =death on some weapons and the vehicle pen chart was conoluted but now every fricking manchild HAS to get off their combo made by other sweaties or they get sad. 40k is a fricking mess and I only play it now with people who dont take it seriously.
i try not to engage in those arguments
for me its a case of lasguns are approximately around a hard hitting rifle (exact specs and performance will vary)
a helgun is more powerful to the point of presenting at least some level of threat against a heretic astartes (yes regular ones can be a threat against weakpoints or in mass but hotshots do have some potential against power armour but id still prefer a plasma gun or melta gun if i had no choice but to have to fight one )
>Why would they when they can just wildly fansperg by claiming that the lasgun is the equivalent of a .50?
they don't they i'm talking about the ones who just immediately dismiss comparing a lasgun to a .50cal cause of "future tech" where any other normal person can make a reasonable guess to the power of the weapons
If we have batteries as energy dense as what powers a lasgun. there would plenty of better things we can have it power that would be infinitely more practical.
Standard guardsman issue flashlights are completely OP by modern standards. iirc a torso hit on an unarmored human will essplode a quarter of the torso and blow a limb off. So, 50 cal levels of boom. Without recoil and no bullet drop or deviation of any mind. It is bigger and bulkier than your moder AR/AK but not heavier.
But real ballers want plasma.
Its just puny in-universe because of the shit it goes up against
I'm no physicist but laser always struck me as being really inefficient as infantry weapons they would need a ton of energy to seriously injure someone even more so if they're wearing body armor which would require the invention of ultra powerful batteries. It just seems like a lot of trouble when a normal firearm would be far more effective.
Lasguns have approximately the firepower of a high rof browning m2, can resupply their ammunition from any energy source including the sun or fire, have no recoil, require basically zero maintenance, and are fairly light. Yes they'd be superior.
Because Space Marines are 8 foot tall genetically modified men in several tons of powered armor. They don't even use normal sized bolters for regular humans, they use astartes pattern upsized bolters with bigger shells and to them it's as easily handled as an assault rifle.
A lasgun wouldn't even scratch the paint off a space marine's power armor; a bolter is basically the minimum for really getting through their armor.
Lasguns absolutely can shred through PA, it just takes much longer for a lasgun to go through PA than it does for a bolter shell to go through flak armor.
The space marines are intimidation weapons, they're meant to inspire awe, shock, and ultimately gain compliance from other humans. People act like super soliders are the Imperium's greatest resource when really they're a vanity project of the emperors and a shock tool against rebels, they not even good in big wars with shitloads of artillery/ normal armies like Vraks. the Imperiums actual greatest resource is faith alone, because unmodified humans with force of belief become things like assassins that can solo a space marine, or sisters of battle who can cast collective psychic abilities with no risk, or become immortal saints. They have to carefully cultivate that as a natural resource they can't synthesize, and really the space marines are a poor substitute for it, especially when you consider them being their own greatest enemies, literally.
>when really they're a vanity project of the emperors and a shock tool against rebels, they not even good in big wars with shitloads of artillery/ normal armies like Vraks
They're SOF dudebros who are too valuable to be slugging it out in a protracted conflict. That's what the Guard is for. Spess Mahreens are for when you need maximum killling ability in very small area for a very specific purpose, like a decapitation strike or to counter some other OP shit in that one particular grid square.
This does not explain marines employing heavy tanks, IFVs and artillery. They should be restructured into actual light strike packages, not encouraged to engage in regular fighting.
>when really they're a vanity project of the emperors and a shock tool against rebels, they not even good in big wars with shitloads of artillery/ normal armies like Vraks
They're SOF dudebros who are too valuable to be slugging it out in a protracted conflict. That's what the Guard is for. Spess Mahreens are for when you need maximum killling ability in very small area for a very specific purpose, like a decapitation strike or to counter some other OP shit in that one particular grid square.
Both takes are mostly true. Astartes were initially made as a cheaper, but still very expensive supersoldier to conquer the galaxy. In a modern setting, they're the ones who make the most of the Imperial Guard dying en masse in protracted engagements by themselves taking on the tasks that any amount of regular humans would inevitably fail at. They get the glory because they're the ones assassinating major targets whereas the Guard are being eradicated giving them the chance to end a war within months instead of years.
This does not explain marines employing heavy tanks, IFVs and artillery. They should be restructured into actual light strike packages, not encouraged to engage in regular fighting.
The heaviest Space Marine tank is also the dedicated troop transport for their heaviest infantry, let's just ignore 40k tanks being fricking moronic for now. In addition, Astartes don't always have the Guard to act as their meat shields. They need the ability to wage their own wars fully rather than exclusively being muh super secret glowies.
>The space marines are intimidation weapons, they're meant to inspire awe, shock, and ultimately gain compliance from other humans.
LMAO, wrong. Primary initial purpose was being a replacement of the Thunder Warriors, who were an interim solution to the problem of facing threats created during Old Night that normal mortal soldiers would stand little chance against no matter the numbers involved.
>because unmodified humans with force of belief become things like assassins that can solo a space marine
Imperial Assassins are more heavily modified and more expensive to create than Astartes.
That's an exaggeration, it would be like a 20mm autocannon but with proximity smart fuzes
Actual tanks with actual cannons also exist in the universe. A boltgun is a str 4 attack while the stock cannon on a leman russ is str 8
>Get fricked by anti-tank weapons >Sometimes get fricked by long-las >Sometimes get fricked by artillery >Sometimes get fricked by overclocked infantry lasguns >Heavy armor
Sounds more like SM is closer to human IFV
I wonder why the frick 40k and blueberry fanboys need to go for biggest thing in universe
Each chapter is only 1000 marines (some less, some more) so if you lined them all up against the entire force of the IG (stated in-universe to be an uncountably high number) they would lose every time. I don't think that a single chapter could beat a single hive world planetary garrison in a straight up fight. But the space marines wouldn't engage in that kind of fight in the first place, they'd either execute a decapitation strike or they'd glass the planet from orbit.
(You)'re fricking stupid and a rules-let to boot, heavy bolters can't deny regular SM their saves, and they only have ~31mm RHA protection. Hell, even the Land raider is trash, it's the size of a wholeass house, and only has ~350mm RHA on the frontal arc, despite having super space materials and being THE most heavily armored tank the Imperium has, not even titan armor is better, they just have void shields and massive size. Lascannons also have pathetic range for AT single shot weapons, an Abrams could dunk on a Land Raider from outside of the land raiders max range, and the turret cheeks are unironically far, far stronger than any ablative armor in the 41st millenium. That's before talking about how HE could hull break it because it's held together with fricking *rivets*. GW are a bunch of bongoloid noguns morons, with a couple friends at forgeworld that are WW2 historic vehicle enthusiasts, and it shows.
NTA, I think rules are a good way to compare which model is stronger in lore but aren't necessarily a good way to compare how much stronger one model is to another
On the table, I'd expect bog standard Boyz, marines to be decisively beaten in melee by a 2:1 ratio of ork boyz, but in the lore they make it sound like space marines are nearly invincible against boyz
Yeah the settings writing is really bad, and there was a lot of free handies for space marines by the writers in the matt ward and post-wardian eras. Anyone in a story is covered in plot armor, and the average space marine isn't close to as good as the front-of-the-codex wank makes them out to be. They also regularly do things like refuse to aid imperial ground forces if the meatgrinder wont be helped along by them plummeting to inevitable death, and all the last stands that they half win are supposed to be exceptions, not the rule, but that gets distorted by being all that ever gets written about. That being said, a heavy bolter is NOT a "tank's cannon", it's not even close. It's more like a mk-19 with rocket assisted grenades, regular astartes bolters are canonically only .75 cal, or slightly larger than 12 gauge. The heavy bolter has less str then an autocannon, which is smaller and weaker than a battlecannon, or a lascannon, or any alien "tank's cannon". people willfully misinterpret a scene from the 30k books where a marine puts his hand in front of his face and it gets removed as a DGW, and people think that means initiative 4 is fast enough to swat bullets out of the air.
>A space marine heavy bolter is the equivalent of an tank's cannon
The only way you're getting a heavy bolter to hit as hard as a tank cannon is if you're playing the Deathwatch RPG and get lucky on the Righteous Fury rolls, and even then, a Battle Cannon is Pen 8 and a heavy bolter is Pen 6 (Pen 5 if you use the errata).
Less logistically efficient but far more terrifying to witness and far more effective against tougher targets, like orcs and the various xenos we eradicated during the Great Crusade.
Standard guardsman issue flashlights are completely OP by modern standards. iirc a torso hit on an unarmored human will essplode a quarter of the torso and blow a limb off. So, 50 cal levels of boom. Without recoil and no bullet drop or deviation of any mind. It is bigger and bulkier than your moder AR/AK but not heavier.
But real ballers want plasma.
Its just puny in-universe because of the shit it goes up against
>muh .50cal lasgun
OK then why don't lasguns have the same stats as a heavy stubber?
I could have sworn it had S3 in 5th ed, but I checked and yeah it was S4. Still, they probably aren't firing .50 bmg out of those things so .50 bmg being S3 still makes sense.
Imagine the first time laser weapons are deployed on the battlefield and some grunt just gets fricking vaporized while sitting in a trench or some shit.
That's how normal trenches work. Snipers, artillery, grenades, air power, plus a million other things exploding. Adding an invisible laser weapon might not even go noticed for the first few kills for grunts who are used to hidden snipers turning their heads to red mist
The primary benefit of a lasgun is logistics. Making sextillions of cartridges and quintillions of magazines and quadrillions of mag pouches for trillions of guardsmen spread over a million lightyears is an absolute fricking nightmare. You can charge a lasgun by throwing it in a campfire. The entire concept of the lasgun is that it takes finite number of photons to kill god, and its pretty much the most perfect standard issue firearm in all of science fiction.
>he doesn't know there are different size magazines for different patterns of lasgun completely incompatible
Its a pretty funny but dire bit in one of Dan abnetts novels, some bean counter wrote a 3 instead of a four and they have to deploy with no ammo
>would small arms with no recoil and miles of range that can blast through tank armor be useful?
The technology would make interception systems absolutely insane, that would be the even bigger thing. Missiles would be useless. You'd need to get projectiles in undetected and before systems had time to react, so you'd either use other lasguns or coil guns or something like that so you can hurl shit in a Mach 18 before the interceptors have time to adjust and aim. Plus side is that powerful coil guns would give the projectile so much kinetic energy that it wouldn't really need explosives.
You can only go so fast within atmosphere though. Eventually your gun will just blow up. In the LHC, they accelerate nuclei up to 99+% of light speed and when they hit each other they don't just blow apart the atoms, but the protons and neutrons inside as well. Heat is some stupid amount higher than the sun, enough to kick off fusion, and it clears out space enough that you get to see quark condensate spontaneously reform in the vacuum.
There is some decent evidence that lightning is hot enough to cause small amounts of fusion at times. A lightning cannon would be cool.
>would a gun capable of shooting through concrete walls that uses batteries that can be charged by leaving them out in the sun or near a camp fire be superior to a mechanical gun that requires supply lines for more ammo
I have no idea.
>Hits more or less like a 50 cal (depending on author) >no recoil >no moving parts except the trigger >fit ~500 rounds into a magazine/battery not that much bigger/heavier than a modern 30 round job. >reload it from any electrical outlet (don't think about the bill of pulling a few megawatts out of the grid though), in sunlight, or from literal fire. >no cleaning or maintenance needed >if it breaks that just means you didn't pray hard enough
I mean, after 38 thousand years of R&D it would be weird if it wasn't.
In the rules, autoguns are basically the same stats as lasguns, str 3 no ap with rapid fire (two shots at half range)
Autoguns in universe explicitly refer to guns that use chemically propelled projectiles and can be wielded by normal humans, with designs that predate the dark age of technology
Modern irl militaries with their tech parity and precision weapons could beat the Astra Militarium at their own game if it weren't for the great scale at which the AM conducts operations, and naval (space) support >t. hasn't played in a couple editions
Also want to add that, although I didn't play AM, I recognized the fact that at least when it came to tabletop, guardsmen should be your anvil and a significant portion of your points should be spent on fielding basic infantry squads. There are better armies than AM for fielding lots of toys.
No. Lasguns are the concept of "lowest possible bidder" taken to it's logical conclusion. A guardsmen is so meaningless that to equip him with better weapons is simply not worth the material or logistical cost, a lasgun is barely effective on humans (hence why melee combat actually works) and the sole purpose of a guardsmen is to suppress or slow down a enemy long enough for fire support to engage.
>and the sole purpose of a guardsmen is to suppress or slow down a enemy long enough for fire support to engage.
Basically irl but with a .50 cal the size of an FAL
>t. Crymaster abbadon the whiner
A guy with daddy issues got so ass blasted that his father killed his favorite top for betraying him that he lashed out and convinced millions of his fellows that siding with the ontological evil of the universe was a better idea than with their creator and savior of their race because he was maybe not as great a guy as everyone thought. Chaos worshippers are edgy 7th graders given a vehicle for their angst
Even in 40K lore it's pretty much admitted that lasguns fricking suck overall (save for a few more specialized types, like the Kreig version). But the are decent against body armor and decent for killing most xenos without requiring TONS of ammunition because the damn things run on batteries. Compared to the examples of firearms in the lore, they are about the same in terms of performance. If not a little bit weaker since 40K likes to say every firearm in game shoots ridiculous sized rounds, despite having the recoil of a 5.56 or 7.62.
>Bolters are gyrojets.
They used to be, but then the artists working for Games Workshop realised that guns which eject soda can sized casings look much cooler. So now bolters use both gunpower and gyrojets to propel ammo.
in the idea of you have a rifle with a very efficient energy source that is very easy and cheap to recharge while providing good firing power, certainly especially since logistics would be far easier, but in terms of actually making one with modern tech certainly not since the energy for it to be useful is far to costly and far to cumbersome to carry around especially for a single soldier
Yes, for most of the reasons already mentioned. However, we've all missed an important question: Do we get an STC so we can make the things (and their batteries) ourselves?
>Autoguns are still used because superior in stopping power >Some use what I assume to be basically rimless .45-70
Lasguns are kind of shit even in lore
Set gun on high power and powerpack runs out in 40 shots and gun wears out in few hundred shots
Use normally and it can barely penetrate flak vest
Flak vests appear to be either what name implies or some 40k fanboy super stuff that can take 50 BMG
I like the setting but it is pretty obvious that all writers are never served, noguns who don't know shit about military weaponry, gear and stuff and on top of that they can't agree on how powerfull things are
The point of a lasgun is it will always do damage and is easy on the logistics because it does not require a constant supply of ammo. Just power which can be supplied locally.
So what if the guardsman only fired a single shot before he died.
The shot will always damage the armor even if just a bit and there's 5 million more guardsmen in the line
An autogun would just bounce off harmlessly off of most shit the Imperium gets put up against and require constant and steady logistics from a bomperium which can't manage shit due to how inept it became, because warp travel is AT BEST "somewhat unreliable" under the perfect conditions, and both of the aforementioned combined with it's sheer size
One thing that also has to be said is that by year 40k, they have also made quite significant improvements to protective technology.
They call it "Flak vest" but it might well be some futuristic (from our point of view) supermaterial like artificial steel-based spidersilk-weave, or ghaphene-layered metamaterial. They just don't know any better because tech is poorly understood, or from their point of view completely mundane, so they just call it flak armor.. Even stuff they call "ceramite" might be completely different from what we call ceramite. It's just that these materials have been used by humanity for so long (literally longer than human civilization has existed from our point of view) that they think it's ancient tech. You have to remember that stuff like touch-screen displays and genetic engineering is for them about as old and as innovative tech as stonehenge-type circle calendars or bronze axes. Those technologies are so old that their origins have been lost to the mists of time.
So while they do have outrageously powerful weapons, they also have considerably more protective capability than we do. Lasgun might be weakest of their weapons, but only because everything else is OP, and firepower VS armor balance is different from our times. ..
A lasgun is useful only if it vaporizes light cover (to include a half inch of plywood and car doors) and penetrates several inches of skin which are vaporized in a steam explosion. It also needs to do this at up to 800m.
Anything less than that and a lasgun simply isn't lethal enough. Ammo is cheap and there's no way you could recharge in a campfire.
That is exactly how lasgun is described.
Vaporizes fish-sized chunks of flesh in explosive manner. Can be used against lightly armored targets (vehicles and such), so should be effective against light cover.
From our contemporary point of view, lasgun would be amazing infantry weapon and a game-changer in warfare. It's just that they have way more powerful stuff at their disposal that lasgun is the smallest common denominator and used mostly for logistical reasons.
Important to note that the human body is semitransparent at certain frequencies which is why smart watches have a green light to sense heartbeat and a red and IR light to sense blood oxygen.
>no one mentions the most glaring issue with las wepaons - your position beeing instantly revealed after shooting
Thats the only thing autoguns have on lasguns, but its a big advantage
>almost no recoil >unlimited ammo(mags can be recharged with literally any heatsource) >similar stopping power to a .30, .40 or .50 depending on the model >incredibly reliable >not affected by things like gravity or wind since its literally a laser
Yes anon, I think the lasgun is probably better than our modern battle rifles.
Good logistics in the grimdark future. Stopping power however is generally considered to be equal to an autogun which is the same as a modern firearm, and in early editions of 40K it was actually explicitly worse than an autogun and only taken for its easy logistics. In real life I would say the lack of recoil and no bullet drop would be incredible, but the bloom problem and just the simple fact it would be useless in rain would be dealbreakers. And of course meme recharge methods like sunlight and fire would pointlessly net you a few shots after maybe a an entire day of sunlight. A neat trick, but not very relevant,
Depends on their depiction but lasguns from Darktide? Absolutely. They hit anything below carapace armor really well, have awesome ammo efficiency and are dead accurate while the gun itself is light as frick.
The lasgun is basically a .50 cal laser flashlight.
It works against humans but not against ayylmaos, xenos, Satan worshippers and everyone who has armor.
Stormtroopers/Kasrkin troops use hellguns which are basically super lasers meant to penetrate ayylmaos, xenos, thick carapaces, armored Satan worshippers but still fall short of anything bigger boom.
Your standard Spess Mehreen bolter in comparison is a railgun rocket launcher and that's just regular ammo. They have different kinds of ammunition and half of them require continuous prayer and rites because each boolit/clip has a mind of their own.
It'd simplify a huge portion of our logistics to just JP-8 so yes
>Vehicles run on JP8 >Generators run on JP8 >The generators charge the lasguns via JP8 >In a pinch, you can just put it on a running engine/exhaust pipes or an electric stovetop and let it heat up, thereby powering it by JP8 by an extra step >In a really big pinch just throw it into a pit, start burning JP8 and charge it
Sure but we’re centuries away from it being practical , same for plasma and rail gun weapons , your great great great great great grandsons will be armed with them probably though
Yeah but the original poster made a statement that is factually inaccurate and now people are still talking about it like they're having a technical discussion. It's very disappointing.
Scanning this thread and seeing that the 40K fanboys already have reached the stage of increasingly outlandish claims about their power level (20mm and warp-powered power packs lmao) and have already admitted their toy guns don't make sense and would make for shit weapons and are throwing various tantrums (as they always do) when /k/ doesn't play along with their fanwank, I'm going to say no.
20mm autocannon was brought up as a point of comparison to the heavy bolter, which for AM the heavy bolter is sometimes mounted as a pintle mount on vehicles. It is not an infantry weapon for the IG.
Warp power that is triggered by heat or solar energy is as good of an explanation as any for the lasgun power pack. We don't know how they work, but they can do things we can't do with modern technology.
Yes, yes, we get it, lasguns are warp-powered now, that's a cool theory you have there you absolutely insane frothing fanboy.
Also, why lie? 20mm was brought up about hot shot lasguns, do you think people are idiots and can't ctrl+f?
Those people are wrong because we are told by the writers of the codices that autoguns are like real small arms issued to soldiers today and we are also told that autoguns are roughly equivalent to lasguns but we are also told that lasguns possess a number of logistical advantages over autoguns that explain why AM issues it as its standard infantry fighting weapon
I was the one who said that the power cell could be warp powered. It also could be powered by love, happiness, and the power of friendship. We don't know and neither does anyone in-universe because that's how it is with any tech manufactured by STC. Orks have tech that works because they think that's how it's supposed to work. Humans have tech that works in spite of not knowing why or how it works. That is just how these things are. None of this really bothers me but there are a lot of other things that I don't like, like how the lore and the gameplay are really disjointed, some armies go through an identity crisis every major edition, the game isn't very well balanced and never will be etc
This just feels like nitpicking when there are lower hanging fruit to go after
>I was the one who said that the power cell could be warp powered. It also could be powered by love, happiness, and the power of friendship.
This is just getting pathetic. Just stop, you're embarrassing yourself.
Yes but the US wouldn't adopt it because it's not a fricking Euro-garbage.
>euro-garbage
Boomer mind detected
Forgot to mention I'm trans if that matters
Eldar player...
Nah, primaris is more likely.
Russia will conquer Ukraine.
Don't know if that matters...
It dose , now go shove a rifle barrel down your throw and save us the time and ammo
Slaanesh player
No, yes, probably, maybe
Ill go ahead and save the next 3 posters the trouble.
yes fricking obviously.
I don't know
40k is manchild homosexual shit
you're only saying that cause its popular now. you saw one too many memes about it on discord.
inb4 >discord
t. homosexual manchild GWslop slurper
thats how a chatbot trained on PrepHole talks.
Does the chatbot trained on PrepHole say Black person?
No, it says
>double Black person
t. homosexual manchild larpgear slurper
>people werent saying 40k was for neckbeard losers before discord
what kind of bubble have you been living in? comparing 40k fans to furries has been going on since furries were still relevant.
>you're only saying that cause its popular now
Fricking this, just zoomers thinking they're cool for being contrarian.
the lack of self awareness in 40k cringetards is always amusing
Eventually you'll realize no one cares about your hobbies and the highschool peer pressure nonsense doesnt work on adults when you're socially a nobody.
40kgays at their worst are on the same level as 2012-era bronies.
>he says on an anime website
Yes. But they are pretty big so they wouldn't be best suited for all modern day applications where a firearms is needed.
But the over all answer is yes. Its from the year 40'000. It would be able to pierce anything modern. Dead on laser accuracy with no recoil. Self recharging and will never run out of ammo. Will never fail torture test from your favorite Guntuber no matter how hard they try.
>Self recharging and will never run out of ammo.
Slight correction, the power cells don't just generate energy, they need a source to feed off of though since they can literally be left in sunlight or tossed in a fire that's not too hard.
>Will never fail torture test from your favorite Guntuber no matter how hard they try.
They still can fail, generally through excessive firing apparently warping the lenses but that will take a while.
Please an hero as soon as you can
>they need a source to feed off of though since they can literally be left in sunlight or tossed in a fire that's not too hard
If thats the case then the force of each shot would be absolutely pathetic as it can only output an amount of energy equal to the amount stored in the battery.
There are some fairly compact lasguns, the elysians rock compact las-carbines with foldable stocks for example.
Daily reminder that lasguns would blind anyone in the general direction of where its pointed. They're pure fantasy.
>blind anyone where I'm pointing
>i'm pointing at heretics I want to die
Yes
you'd be looking in that general direction, and your squad would be too, a battlefield witha gorillion guardsmen firing a volley would be a hilariously inept byzantine blinding for both sides before the other casualties started
What would rather carry:
>A couple of batteries, each capable of a 300 shot capacity
>300 rounds of 6.8×51mm
Unlikely.
Smokeless gunpowder has far better energy density than any currently existing battery. There's no reason to assume that this is suddenly going to reverse. We might invent some kind of super batteries in the future, but we might also invent superior chemical explosives.
>We might invent some kind of super batteries in the future, but we might also invent superior chemical explosives.
We absolutely will not make any significant leaps in inventing chemical explosives with higher energy density.
Energy density of chemical explosives is hard capped at around 17 MJ/L (gunpowders clock in at around 6-13 MJ/L) because you simply cannot store more energy in the chemical bonds of molecules per unit volume.
It's possible some of the more exotic elements can explode better but they also usually have a shelf life of seconds and explode from any stimulation at all. I kind of want
You guys should consider that different types of energy have differing levels of effectiveness on targets. The amount of kinetic energy in a flying bullet is pitiful, but it's enough to kill someone. Hitting a person with an equivalent power laser will only result in light burns, if anything.
We're more likely to make electrochemical
"railguns" that fire regular bullets accelerated by magnetic fields.
>Smokeless gunpowder has far better energy density than any currently existing battery.
Are you moronic? Are you autistic? Are you autistic and moronic? You are comparing scifi technology from supposedly 41st millenia to current fricking year tech.
Propellants would be inherently much more energy dense than a lasgun's energy pack. The need to keep things solid and rechargeable means it can never match propellants, it's just a simple fact that rechargeable battery tech can't be as energetic.
If the lasgun battery pack is manufactured by STC it may as well be magic (even in-universe)
Doesn't matter it's a fundamental constraint. The energy released from the difference in energy levels between electrodes can't match propellants.
I don't think you understand
If the lasgun battery pack is made with STC the 40k guys don't even know how it fricking works
Throwing it out in the sun to charge for a while could open a micro dimensional pocket to the warp to pull energy from there
Throwing it in a fire could harness zero point energy
If the ingame dudes who are making it don't know how it works, we sure as frick wouldn't either
>mfw ad mech
It's not so much that they don't understand it, as they've been teaching the way they have for so long that none of them remember what is actual maintenance and build instructions, and what is pointless bullshit they made up over ten millenia ago to make it easier to remember.
I've seen a lot of 40K fanboys twist themselves into ridiculous and bizarre heights when hyping up power levels of their setting, but this is a new one lmao.
I'm not a fan of the setting, that is just how things are
Charging it in the sun does not mean it has 21st century solar panels bolted to the side of it either. We don't know how it works because nobody in universe knows how it works either
It's really amusing how worked up some autists can get about how something that isn't realistic isn't realistic. Lasgun powerpacks are literally magic boxes that violate the laws of thermodynamics. Attempting to rationalize how the dumb things work is pure folly. Like forget just leaving them out in the sun to charge, you can stuff the damn things in your undies and trickle charge them slowly off your body heat. They're space magic and aren't supposed to make sense.
Show me the physics, bro. It's a fundamental constraint of our current technology, not of physics itself
Energy production is the result of the difference in energy levels between the reactant and product. A propellant goes from solid to gas, that's a huge difference in entropy. A battery innately changes from one substance to another similar substance, that's a small difference in energy. The way a battery works also limits this further, you're changing valencies because you're transferring electrons over. Meanwhile a chemical reaction is changing bonds, which contain several magnitudes far more energy. There are of course a few ways an lasgun's power pack can be energy dense, but it sure as hell wouldn't be because it's a battery. And before you argue about it, no this explanation is not a technology issue, it's a physics issue.
What the frick are you talking about? What does "solid to gas" even mean? Are you saying you don't get energy when you burn hydrogen because it goes from gas to liquid?
I responded before reading the whole thing so let me just add that you are moronic and most portable batteries use chemical reactions to produce electricity rather than just storing electrons or w/e
>current technology
Being the operative term here. Going from a gas to a plasma would be more energy than a solid propellant to gas. You're assuming batteries as we know them are the only form they will ever be, but there's no reason to suspect they will be and we've already demonstrated batteries with much higher energy densities are possible, just not economically with current tech
Why are you dumb Black folk talking about phase transitions like that has anything to do with how much heat energy you get out of an exothermic reaction?
I hate to break it to you but that was pure theory and at no point did he mention the current state of technology. If the electrodes turn into a gas it'll escape and won't be rechargeable. If you capture the gas and store it that would be a low energy conversion because that would be a low entropy product.
There are some hurdles ss we need to overcome beyond the well known cooling and power supply/discharge issues.
The main one is atmospheric blooming. At "blow a cantaloupe sized hole in a guy via shockwaves from the material being flashed to plasma" energies, the beam will start breaking down and ionizing the atmosphere, causing the beam to be all peepeepoopoo.
The other big one is beams reflecting partially and blinding/maiming your bros, but that can probably be migitated by cycling the rifle wavelength over a narrow band and having the visor linked and cycling it's filter in tandem.
The real chicken dinner I believe is the electrolaser. Just ionize the air with a powerful, short laser pulse and send a killing lightning attack down the channel...
Thanks man, I never get to say that to anyone.
So what, like that lightning gun from District 9? I loved that thing.
The lore pretty much explicitly tells you that they save so much on logistics that actual combat effectiveness is a secondary concern
>just carry a handful of cartidges around that can be recharged with mere exposure to sun/starlight as opposed to autogun ammunition which is heavier than today's ammo
>it's a space FAL lighter than a M4 with 300 round mags and no bullet drop
yeah, but it's not real.
>low setting: .308 equiv
>high setting: .50 BMG equiv
>perfect ballistics
>30+ shots per battery pack
>every vehicle has an alternator to charge the packs so now your guns run on JP8 >sunlight or burn pits will also work in a pinch
the US would adopt them immediately
This. Even if they were not considerably more powerful than modern weapons the logistic advantages alone would make them irresistible to any army.
>make them irresistible to any army
except the one from Ass Effect
Lasgun is described as being able to blow fist-sized holes in humans and (with a nicely placed shot) blow of limbs. So I'd recon it's shot-per-shot on similar level as modern high-powered sniper rifle. So, like said,
anything between .308 and .50 BMG.
The only reason it is considered "weak" in WH40k is because everything else is ridiculously overpowered. The main advantage would be the logistic as it requires no ammo suplly, only field renerators/rechargers for power packs.
It should also be noted that even if they’re not amazing for 40k standards typical lasguns are excellent for killing 99% of things a guardsman is facing and are objectively better than any piece of shit stubber. If a guardsman is facing marines or involved in a waaagh/tyranid/necron/etc. invasion he’s already dead anyways and basically just a body to keep the plasma/gun team/melta/tanks/whatever alive whole they do the real work
This guy got it right, yeah a lasgun ain't that impressive, but then they ain't meant to be. They're meant to keep you busy while the artillery and bombers are getting a firing solution.
the reason that lasguns aren't all that impressive in 40k is that you're likely to be firing them at the sort of 10ft tall immortal killing machine that would make Conan look like a pussy. In that context you've got to readjust your expectations.
don't forget that you can oepsy your battery pack or lasgun into a charge powerful enough to beat the armor on most armored vehicles
but that's older Gaunts Ghost lore so idk how it is now after the moronus rift
It was never true in the actual game. Only the game being flooded with morons who are incapable of telling in-universe narration apart from third person omniscient narration, ever caused moron youtubers to say the horus heresy books are more canon than codicies and the core rules lore/ rules. Standard lasguns can't do that, and hotshot lasguns fed by a backpack sized power sources and designed to penetrate armor can ignore powered armor, but aren't any better against vehicles, even in the new gay editions. there are guard regiments that canonically use autoguns instead of lasguns if their world has a lower tech base, they're not shooting .50 BMG standard, and .308 black tips could pierce the parts of space marine power armor that are less thick, like the arms and face, because a space marine only has average RHA equivalent to an m113, there are also spots like the abdomen that are largely unarmored. Astartes need the super fast clotting blood and super fast scar tissue, they take chip damage on their actual bodies from battles all the time, even without standard weapons being overblown. powerscaling in the setting is fricked specifically because of people like dan abbnett thinking the setting is still based on DUNE, and morons who could mistake a defensive gunshot wound for having superhuman reflexes.
>low setting: .308 equiv
>high setting: .50 BMG equiv
I'm suprised none of the 40k fanboys here aren't already b***hing about comparing modern munitions against the lasgun. or at least not yet. I swear 40k attracts the most autistic man children
>I'm suprised none of the 40k fanboys here aren't already b***hing about comparing modern munitions against the lasgun
Doing so satisfies both the milautism and 40k 'tism. What alternative do you want? Integer power levels?
no i'm perfectly fine with comparing 40k stuff to modern counterparts. it's just that a lot of the more autistic ones will immediately dismiss any attempt of comparing 40k weaponry to modern equivalents as the 40k ones are "more advanced" hence are obviously more powerful and cannot be quantified despite there being a lot of evidence of what they can do in lore.
i dont complain since a) different patterns of las guns operate at different power levels b) their effectiveness depends a lot on what you are shooting at and c) james workshop has never made it clear exactly how powerful they are and diff authors give different descriptions so it all just depends
i've seen a ton of arguments regarding human sized targets. a reasonable person would mostly agree that a lasgun would typically hit somewhere between .308 all the way up to a 20mm if it's a hotshot variant. there are people who will STILL argue the fact that lasguns are leaps and bounds more complicated hence CAN'T be compared even if we can easily compare damage profiles from the books/lore. these are the same people who will argue a single space marine can take out the entirety of earth's current modern military by themselves.
If we're going to analyze the hot-shot it's nowhere near that level.
Rogue trader - just a boltgun equivalent
3rd onwards - armor piercing version of a lasgun.
Role play books - somewhere in between
Of course it's the armor-piercing variant of the hotshot which is most troublesome to explain, as it's essentially just as powerful as a normal lasgun against flesh but also able to penetrate through armor with the same power as a much heavier weapon. The most reasonable explanation is that it's much like the FN 5.7×28mm, a thin focused beam that can go right through armor but has low stopping power. Luckily, due to more modern editions of tabletop 40K treating tanks like giant monstrous creatures, there is no longer any contradiction with this interpretation and the fact that the strength stat was also used to defeat vehicle armor instead of the armor-piercing stat.
You know I used to think stuff like rolling 1s =death on some weapons and the vehicle pen chart was conoluted but now every fricking manchild HAS to get off their combo made by other sweaties or they get sad. 40k is a fricking mess and I only play it now with people who dont take it seriously.
>FN 5.7×28mm, a thin focused beam that can go right through armor but has low stopping power
WH40k fudds. I've seen it all now.
i try not to engage in those arguments
for me its a case of lasguns are approximately around a hard hitting rifle (exact specs and performance will vary)
a helgun is more powerful to the point of presenting at least some level of threat against a heretic astartes (yes regular ones can be a threat against weakpoints or in mass but hotshots do have some potential against power armour but id still prefer a plasma gun or melta gun if i had no choice but to have to fight one )
Why would they when they can just wildly fansperg by claiming that the lasgun is the equivalent of a .50?
>Why would they when they can just wildly fansperg by claiming that the lasgun is the equivalent of a .50?
they don't they i'm talking about the ones who just immediately dismiss comparing a lasgun to a .50cal cause of "future tech" where any other normal person can make a reasonable guess to the power of the weapons
If we have batteries as energy dense as what powers a lasgun. there would plenty of better things we can have it power that would be infinitely more practical.
Standard guardsman issue flashlights are completely OP by modern standards. iirc a torso hit on an unarmored human will essplode a quarter of the torso and blow a limb off. So, 50 cal levels of boom. Without recoil and no bullet drop or deviation of any mind. It is bigger and bulkier than your moder AR/AK but not heavier.
But real ballers want plasma.
Its just puny in-universe because of the shit it goes up against
I keep seeing memes of this show and I can't figure out why
I'm no physicist but laser always struck me as being really inefficient as infantry weapons they would need a ton of energy to seriously injure someone even more so if they're wearing body armor which would require the invention of ultra powerful batteries. It just seems like a lot of trouble when a normal firearm would be far more effective.
normal guns are still in 40k, "autoguns" or "stubbers", they have to be much more powerful and heavier to face the same targets.
Lasguns have approximately the firepower of a high rof browning m2, can resupply their ammunition from any energy source including the sun or fire, have no recoil, require basically zero maintenance, and are fairly light. Yes they'd be superior.
Then why do space marines use bolters?
too small for their hands
Some chapters carry lascannons
>he carries a lascannon instead of an eradication ray or plasma culverin
[Laughs in binauric]
I'm a solar atomizer man myself
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wherever I go, I must also choom
Because Space Marines are 8 foot tall genetically modified men in several tons of powered armor. They don't even use normal sized bolters for regular humans, they use astartes pattern upsized bolters with bigger shells and to them it's as easily handled as an assault rifle.
A lasgun wouldn't even scratch the paint off a space marine's power armor; a bolter is basically the minimum for really getting through their armor.
Lasguns absolutely can shred through PA, it just takes much longer for a lasgun to go through PA than it does for a bolter shell to go through flak armor.
Space Marines use Multilasers
Go back to your basement C S Goto
The space marines are intimidation weapons, they're meant to inspire awe, shock, and ultimately gain compliance from other humans. People act like super soliders are the Imperium's greatest resource when really they're a vanity project of the emperors and a shock tool against rebels, they not even good in big wars with shitloads of artillery/ normal armies like Vraks. the Imperiums actual greatest resource is faith alone, because unmodified humans with force of belief become things like assassins that can solo a space marine, or sisters of battle who can cast collective psychic abilities with no risk, or become immortal saints. They have to carefully cultivate that as a natural resource they can't synthesize, and really the space marines are a poor substitute for it, especially when you consider them being their own greatest enemies, literally.
>when really they're a vanity project of the emperors and a shock tool against rebels, they not even good in big wars with shitloads of artillery/ normal armies like Vraks
They're SOF dudebros who are too valuable to be slugging it out in a protracted conflict. That's what the Guard is for. Spess Mahreens are for when you need maximum killling ability in very small area for a very specific purpose, like a decapitation strike or to counter some other OP shit in that one particular grid square.
I'd either go with the Emperor himself or the space marine so long as the space marine is either a lamenter or a salamander.
This does not explain marines employing heavy tanks, IFVs and artillery. They should be restructured into actual light strike packages, not encouraged to engage in regular fighting.
>frick combined arms
>it's doorkicking that wins conventional wars
>frick economics, production, and logistics
>it's windowlickers that win conventional wars.
I'd probably choose Tau or Guardsmen
The guardsman is the obvious choice. That’s real bro love
>he has an actual crane
sold
As a PrepHole crossposter I agree with this, but mainly because I hope he will help me become a tech priest like him.
I miss when death guard weren’t DUDE TENTACLES LMAO *FARTS*
Guardsmen bro, all day everyday
The Emperor
> - Made a Deal with the Devil
> - We're still not sure *which* Devil, or Devils
Give me the Sororitas Friendzone Special
Both takes are mostly true. Astartes were initially made as a cheaper, but still very expensive supersoldier to conquer the galaxy. In a modern setting, they're the ones who make the most of the Imperial Guard dying en masse in protracted engagements by themselves taking on the tasks that any amount of regular humans would inevitably fail at. They get the glory because they're the ones assassinating major targets whereas the Guard are being eradicated giving them the chance to end a war within months instead of years.
The heaviest Space Marine tank is also the dedicated troop transport for their heaviest infantry, let's just ignore 40k tanks being fricking moronic for now. In addition, Astartes don't always have the Guard to act as their meat shields. They need the ability to wage their own wars fully rather than exclusively being muh super secret glowies.
>The space marines are intimidation weapons, they're meant to inspire awe, shock, and ultimately gain compliance from other humans.
LMAO, wrong. Primary initial purpose was being a replacement of the Thunder Warriors, who were an interim solution to the problem of facing threats created during Old Night that normal mortal soldiers would stand little chance against no matter the numbers involved.
>because unmodified humans with force of belief become things like assassins that can solo a space marine
Imperial Assassins are more heavily modified and more expensive to create than Astartes.
because they're cooler than oversized flashlights
Because bolters have the firepower of a small artillery battery.
A space marine heavy bolter is the equivalent of an tank's cannon. Space Marines are Heavy Armor, not Light Infantry.
That's an exaggeration, it would be like a 20mm autocannon but with proximity smart fuzes
Actual tanks with actual cannons also exist in the universe. A boltgun is a str 4 attack while the stock cannon on a leman russ is str 8
Is that why they have almost the same stats as a heavy stubber?
>Get fricked by anti-tank weapons
>Sometimes get fricked by long-las
>Sometimes get fricked by artillery
>Sometimes get fricked by overclocked infantry lasguns
>Heavy armor
Sounds more like SM is closer to human IFV
I wonder why the frick 40k and blueberry fanboys need to go for biggest thing in universe
Each chapter is only 1000 marines (some less, some more) so if you lined them all up against the entire force of the IG (stated in-universe to be an uncountably high number) they would lose every time. I don't think that a single chapter could beat a single hive world planetary garrison in a straight up fight. But the space marines wouldn't engage in that kind of fight in the first place, they'd either execute a decapitation strike or they'd glass the planet from orbit.
(You)'re fricking stupid and a rules-let to boot, heavy bolters can't deny regular SM their saves, and they only have ~31mm RHA protection. Hell, even the Land raider is trash, it's the size of a wholeass house, and only has ~350mm RHA on the frontal arc, despite having super space materials and being THE most heavily armored tank the Imperium has, not even titan armor is better, they just have void shields and massive size. Lascannons also have pathetic range for AT single shot weapons, an Abrams could dunk on a Land Raider from outside of the land raiders max range, and the turret cheeks are unironically far, far stronger than any ablative armor in the 41st millenium. That's before talking about how HE could hull break it because it's held together with fricking *rivets*. GW are a bunch of bongoloid noguns morons, with a couple friends at forgeworld that are WW2 historic vehicle enthusiasts, and it shows.
NTA, I think rules are a good way to compare which model is stronger in lore but aren't necessarily a good way to compare how much stronger one model is to another
On the table, I'd expect bog standard Boyz, marines to be decisively beaten in melee by a 2:1 ratio of ork boyz, but in the lore they make it sound like space marines are nearly invincible against boyz
Yeah the settings writing is really bad, and there was a lot of free handies for space marines by the writers in the matt ward and post-wardian eras. Anyone in a story is covered in plot armor, and the average space marine isn't close to as good as the front-of-the-codex wank makes them out to be. They also regularly do things like refuse to aid imperial ground forces if the meatgrinder wont be helped along by them plummeting to inevitable death, and all the last stands that they half win are supposed to be exceptions, not the rule, but that gets distorted by being all that ever gets written about. That being said, a heavy bolter is NOT a "tank's cannon", it's not even close. It's more like a mk-19 with rocket assisted grenades, regular astartes bolters are canonically only .75 cal, or slightly larger than 12 gauge. The heavy bolter has less str then an autocannon, which is smaller and weaker than a battlecannon, or a lascannon, or any alien "tank's cannon". people willfully misinterpret a scene from the 30k books where a marine puts his hand in front of his face and it gets removed as a DGW, and people think that means initiative 4 is fast enough to swat bullets out of the air.
>A space marine heavy bolter is the equivalent of an tank's cannon
The only way you're getting a heavy bolter to hit as hard as a tank cannon is if you're playing the Deathwatch RPG and get lucky on the Righteous Fury rolls, and even then, a Battle Cannon is Pen 8 and a heavy bolter is Pen 6 (Pen 5 if you use the errata).
>A space marine heavy bolter is the equivalent of an tank's cannon
lol no
Less logistically efficient but far more terrifying to witness and far more effective against tougher targets, like orcs and the various xenos we eradicated during the Great Crusade.
>muh .50cal lasgun
OK then why don't lasguns have the same stats as a heavy stubber?
It used to actually have. Heavy stubber had better range and higher ROF.
>I have no argument so I lie instead
lol
I could have sworn it had S3 in 5th ed, but I checked and yeah it was S4. Still, they probably aren't firing .50 bmg out of those things so .50 bmg being S3 still makes sense.
The lasgun battery packs would revolutionize the world
They'd be superior to anything we currently have
Reminder you cannot see laser beams unless there's some thick obstructant along the way.
Imagine the first time laser weapons are deployed on the battlefield and some grunt just gets fricking vaporized while sitting in a trench or some shit.
That's how normal trenches work. Snipers, artillery, grenades, air power, plus a million other things exploding. Adding an invisible laser weapon might not even go noticed for the first few kills for grunts who are used to hidden snipers turning their heads to red mist
Not even just snipers nowadays, there's GPMGs and autocannons that can strafe trenches and pop a random grunt occasionally.
Trench warfare fricking sucks.
The primary benefit of a lasgun is logistics. Making sextillions of cartridges and quintillions of magazines and quadrillions of mag pouches for trillions of guardsmen spread over a million lightyears is an absolute fricking nightmare. You can charge a lasgun by throwing it in a campfire. The entire concept of the lasgun is that it takes finite number of photons to kill god, and its pretty much the most perfect standard issue firearm in all of science fiction.
>he doesn't know there are different size magazines for different patterns of lasgun completely incompatible
Its a pretty funny but dire bit in one of Dan abnetts novels, some bean counter wrote a 3 instead of a four and they have to deploy with no ammo
The smooth simplistic look is alright for the illustrations and 40k drawings but looks like shit irl.
40k used to be some of the coolest shit on the block, now it's marvel tier bullshit, a reminder that even the mightiest can fall the lowest
>would small arms with no recoil and miles of range that can blast through tank armor be useful?
The technology would make interception systems absolutely insane, that would be the even bigger thing. Missiles would be useless. You'd need to get projectiles in undetected and before systems had time to react, so you'd either use other lasguns or coil guns or something like that so you can hurl shit in a Mach 18 before the interceptors have time to adjust and aim. Plus side is that powerful coil guns would give the projectile so much kinetic energy that it wouldn't really need explosives.
You can only go so fast within atmosphere though. Eventually your gun will just blow up. In the LHC, they accelerate nuclei up to 99+% of light speed and when they hit each other they don't just blow apart the atoms, but the protons and neutrons inside as well. Heat is some stupid amount higher than the sun, enough to kick off fusion, and it clears out space enough that you get to see quark condensate spontaneously reform in the vacuum.
There is some decent evidence that lightning is hot enough to cause small amounts of fusion at times. A lightning cannon would be cool.
>no recoil
I'm pretty sure they have artificial recoil, 40k lore is fricking moronic like that.
Patch when? Kinda tired of every second ability being bugged.
>buying an Owlcat game on release
>buying
How good is her romance, I might buy your game, Owlcat.
Aggressively decent. Good, even. Dating her even comes with a book manual in-game. No I'm not joking.
Adorable. She only knows about romance from books and hands you one that may as well be titled "how to get in my pants" while dropping a handkerchief.
China already have
Why rest of world not develop laser weapons yet?
implessive
>would a gun capable of shooting through concrete walls that uses batteries that can be charged by leaving them out in the sun or near a camp fire be superior to a mechanical gun that requires supply lines for more ammo
I have no idea.
>Hits more or less like a 50 cal (depending on author)
>no recoil
>no moving parts except the trigger
>fit ~500 rounds into a magazine/battery not that much bigger/heavier than a modern 30 round job.
>reload it from any electrical outlet (don't think about the bill of pulling a few megawatts out of the grid though), in sunlight, or from literal fire.
>no cleaning or maintenance needed
>if it breaks that just means you didn't pray hard enough
I mean, after 38 thousand years of R&D it would be weird if it wasn't.
In the rules, autoguns are basically the same stats as lasguns, str 3 no ap with rapid fire (two shots at half range)
Autoguns in universe explicitly refer to guns that use chemically propelled projectiles and can be wielded by normal humans, with designs that predate the dark age of technology
Modern irl militaries with their tech parity and precision weapons could beat the Astra Militarium at their own game if it weren't for the great scale at which the AM conducts operations, and naval (space) support
>t. hasn't played in a couple editions
Also want to add that, although I didn't play AM, I recognized the fact that at least when it came to tabletop, guardsmen should be your anvil and a significant portion of your points should be spent on fielding basic infantry squads. There are better armies than AM for fielding lots of toys.
No. Lasguns are the concept of "lowest possible bidder" taken to it's logical conclusion. A guardsmen is so meaningless that to equip him with better weapons is simply not worth the material or logistical cost, a lasgun is barely effective on humans (hence why melee combat actually works) and the sole purpose of a guardsmen is to suppress or slow down a enemy long enough for fire support to engage.
>and the sole purpose of a guardsmen is to suppress or slow down a enemy long enough for fire support to engage.
Basically irl but with a .50 cal the size of an FAL
It doesn't matter since only a pathetic fool worships a weak pathetic corpse false emperor.
>t. Crymaster abbadon the whiner
A guy with daddy issues got so ass blasted that his father killed his favorite top for betraying him that he lashed out and convinced millions of his fellows that siding with the ontological evil of the universe was a better idea than with their creator and savior of their race because he was maybe not as great a guy as everyone thought. Chaos worshippers are edgy 7th graders given a vehicle for their angst
Even in 40K lore it's pretty much admitted that lasguns fricking suck overall (save for a few more specialized types, like the Kreig version). But the are decent against body armor and decent for killing most xenos without requiring TONS of ammunition because the damn things run on batteries. Compared to the examples of firearms in the lore, they are about the same in terms of performance. If not a little bit weaker since 40K likes to say every firearm in game shoots ridiculous sized rounds, despite having the recoil of a 5.56 or 7.62.
>But Bolters
Bolters are gyrojets.
>Bolters are gyrojets.
They used to be, but then the artists working for Games Workshop realised that guns which eject soda can sized casings look much cooler. So now bolters use both gunpower and gyrojets to propel ammo.
You'd go blind from seeing the bright little dot you're shining on what you're aiming at, so probably not.
in the idea of you have a rifle with a very efficient energy source that is very easy and cheap to recharge while providing good firing power, certainly especially since logistics would be far easier, but in terms of actually making one with modern tech certainly not since the energy for it to be useful is far to costly and far to cumbersome to carry around especially for a single soldier
In 40k the laser batteries can be charged up by throwing them in a campfire.
Yes, for most of the reasons already mentioned. However, we've all missed an important question: Do we get an STC so we can make the things (and their batteries) ourselves?
>Autoguns are still used because superior in stopping power
>Some use what I assume to be basically rimless .45-70
Lasguns are kind of shit even in lore
Set gun on high power and powerpack runs out in 40 shots and gun wears out in few hundred shots
Use normally and it can barely penetrate flak vest
Flak vests appear to be either what name implies or some 40k fanboy super stuff that can take 50 BMG
I like the setting but it is pretty obvious that all writers are never served, noguns who don't know shit about military weaponry, gear and stuff and on top of that they can't agree on how powerfull things are
The point of a lasgun is it will always do damage and is easy on the logistics because it does not require a constant supply of ammo. Just power which can be supplied locally.
So what if the guardsman only fired a single shot before he died.
The shot will always damage the armor even if just a bit and there's 5 million more guardsmen in the line
An autogun would just bounce off harmlessly off of most shit the Imperium gets put up against and require constant and steady logistics from a bomperium which can't manage shit due to how inept it became, because warp travel is AT BEST "somewhat unreliable" under the perfect conditions, and both of the aforementioned combined with it's sheer size
>An autogun would just bounce off harmlessly off of most shit the Imperium gets put up against
Except imperium
Useless against the power of Chaos
hey a flashlight is great against the forces of darkness
One thing that also has to be said is that by year 40k, they have also made quite significant improvements to protective technology.
They call it "Flak vest" but it might well be some futuristic (from our point of view) supermaterial like artificial steel-based spidersilk-weave, or ghaphene-layered metamaterial. They just don't know any better because tech is poorly understood, or from their point of view completely mundane, so they just call it flak armor.. Even stuff they call "ceramite" might be completely different from what we call ceramite. It's just that these materials have been used by humanity for so long (literally longer than human civilization has existed from our point of view) that they think it's ancient tech. You have to remember that stuff like touch-screen displays and genetic engineering is for them about as old and as innovative tech as stonehenge-type circle calendars or bronze axes. Those technologies are so old that their origins have been lost to the mists of time.
So while they do have outrageously powerful weapons, they also have considerably more protective capability than we do. Lasgun might be weakest of their weapons, but only because everything else is OP, and firepower VS armor balance is different from our times. ..
A lasgun is useful only if it vaporizes light cover (to include a half inch of plywood and car doors) and penetrates several inches of skin which are vaporized in a steam explosion. It also needs to do this at up to 800m.
Anything less than that and a lasgun simply isn't lethal enough. Ammo is cheap and there's no way you could recharge in a campfire.
That is exactly how lasgun is described.
Vaporizes fish-sized chunks of flesh in explosive manner. Can be used against lightly armored targets (vehicles and such), so should be effective against light cover.
From our contemporary point of view, lasgun would be amazing infantry weapon and a game-changer in warfare. It's just that they have way more powerful stuff at their disposal that lasgun is the smallest common denominator and used mostly for logistical reasons.
fish-sized? FIST-sized.
Sorry, brain fart from my part.
>fish
Luv me fishwife, luv me voidship, luv me warrant of trade, 'ate drukhari, 'ate chaos. Simple as.
Found a picture of you, King.
Important to note that the human body is semitransparent at certain frequencies which is why smart watches have a green light to sense heartbeat and a red and IR light to sense blood oxygen.
>no one mentions the most glaring issue with las wepaons - your position beeing instantly revealed after shooting
Thats the only thing autoguns have on lasguns, but its a big advantage
All guns reveal your position by noise, light, movement of brush, kicking up dust or smoke.
>Just look at the blinding laser to see where it is coming from
the guard tends to deploy in the i dont know millions at a time with 10s of thousands of tanks, the guard is as subtle as a sledgehammer to the face
>almost no recoil
>unlimited ammo(mags can be recharged with literally any heatsource)
>similar stopping power to a .30, .40 or .50 depending on the model
>incredibly reliable
>not affected by things like gravity or wind since its literally a laser
Yes anon, I think the lasgun is probably better than our modern battle rifles.
>primary weapon defeated by mild fog
I'll stick to projectiles thanks.
ok then MASER
Good logistics in the grimdark future. Stopping power however is generally considered to be equal to an autogun which is the same as a modern firearm, and in early editions of 40K it was actually explicitly worse than an autogun and only taken for its easy logistics. In real life I would say the lack of recoil and no bullet drop would be incredible, but the bloom problem and just the simple fact it would be useless in rain would be dealbreakers. And of course meme recharge methods like sunlight and fire would pointlessly net you a few shots after maybe a an entire day of sunlight. A neat trick, but not very relevant,
Shit logistics i argue.
The reason for the lasgun is because the empire has vast distances and it will be a long time coming till supply arrives.
You got what you got. Grenades and lasers.
Rollan
gimme ryza pattern
Through the warp and far away
Rollin'
Depends on their depiction but lasguns from Darktide? Absolutely. They hit anything below carapace armor really well, have awesome ammo efficiency and are dead accurate while the gun itself is light as frick.
The lasgun is basically a .50 cal laser flashlight.
It works against humans but not against ayylmaos, xenos, Satan worshippers and everyone who has armor.
Stormtroopers/Kasrkin troops use hellguns which are basically super lasers meant to penetrate ayylmaos, xenos, thick carapaces, armored Satan worshippers but still fall short of anything bigger boom.
Your standard Spess Mehreen bolter in comparison is a railgun rocket launcher and that's just regular ammo. They have different kinds of ammunition and half of them require continuous prayer and rites because each boolit/clip has a mind of their own.
Wrong
read the rules of the game
Depends on the edition/rules. In the FFG tabletop RPGs, a lasgun and autogun both did 1d10+3 Pen 0 on hit.
It'd simplify a huge portion of our logistics to just JP-8 so yes
>Vehicles run on JP8
>Generators run on JP8
>The generators charge the lasguns via JP8
>In a pinch, you can just put it on a running engine/exhaust pipes or an electric stovetop and let it heat up, thereby powering it by JP8 by an extra step
>In a really big pinch just throw it into a pit, start burning JP8 and charge it
Enjoy getting spotted from miles away...
i fail to see the issue
>Takes weeks of preparation to fire a single missile
Sure but we’re centuries away from it being practical , same for plasma and rail gun weapons , your great great great great great grandsons will be armed with them probably though
Hello??? Phase transition from solid to gas is endothermic. Is everyone on /k/ actually moronic?
I think the point has gotten so far into the weeds by now that no one knows what anyone else is getting at
Yeah but the original poster made a statement that is factually inaccurate and now people are still talking about it like they're having a technical discussion. It's very disappointing.
Scanning this thread and seeing that the 40K fanboys already have reached the stage of increasingly outlandish claims about their power level (20mm and warp-powered power packs lmao) and have already admitted their toy guns don't make sense and would make for shit weapons and are throwing various tantrums (as they always do) when /k/ doesn't play along with their fanwank, I'm going to say no.
20mm autocannon was brought up as a point of comparison to the heavy bolter, which for AM the heavy bolter is sometimes mounted as a pintle mount on vehicles. It is not an infantry weapon for the IG.
Warp power that is triggered by heat or solar energy is as good of an explanation as any for the lasgun power pack. We don't know how they work, but they can do things we can't do with modern technology.
Yes, yes, we get it, lasguns are warp-powered now, that's a cool theory you have there you absolutely insane frothing fanboy.
Also, why lie? 20mm was brought up about hot shot lasguns, do you think people are idiots and can't ctrl+f?
Those people are wrong because we are told by the writers of the codices that autoguns are like real small arms issued to soldiers today and we are also told that autoguns are roughly equivalent to lasguns but we are also told that lasguns possess a number of logistical advantages over autoguns that explain why AM issues it as its standard infantry fighting weapon
I was the one who said that the power cell could be warp powered. It also could be powered by love, happiness, and the power of friendship. We don't know and neither does anyone in-universe because that's how it is with any tech manufactured by STC. Orks have tech that works because they think that's how it's supposed to work. Humans have tech that works in spite of not knowing why or how it works. That is just how these things are. None of this really bothers me but there are a lot of other things that I don't like, like how the lore and the gameplay are really disjointed, some armies go through an identity crisis every major edition, the game isn't very well balanced and never will be etc
This just feels like nitpicking when there are lower hanging fruit to go after
>I was the one who said that the power cell could be warp powered. It also could be powered by love, happiness, and the power of friendship.
This is just getting pathetic. Just stop, you're embarrassing yourself.
I don't feel embarrassed
I don't see the ones saying that marines can survive nukes to the face and have faster than lightspeed reactions yet.
>A tongue in cheek space opera is not a manual on how to make good weapons
NO WAY!!!!!11111
Please show on the doll where the 40k touched you