Why was this retardation allowed in the first place?

>Let's create two almost identical rounds, with a few mm in difference, just to confuse the consumers.

Any reason why one wasn't adopted as the main standard, and have the other discontinued?

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  1. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >Any reason why one wasn't adopted as the main standard, and have the other discontinued?
    because it doesn't really matter.

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      You selfish bastard, it obviously matter to op. Stop being the center of your universe and show some empathy you asocial frick! Jesus Christ you fricking unicorn ego maniac, FRICK!

  2. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >just to confuse the consumers.
    That kind of thing has been standard since metallic cartridges were invented. You have ammo companies and gun companies both trying to upstage each other and their competitors trying to come out with the latest and greatest new thing...but that's all been tried before you so you end up with ever so slight variations which end up not being very important in the long run. A lot of the time the names are even deliberately misleading. For example the .480 Ruger is a magnum handgun cartridge. With the name "480" it sure sounds big and bad. In reality it is a slightly shorter, weaker, version of the .475 Linebaugh, a wildcat that's been around for decades. If you look at one of those "Cartridges of the world" charts it's clear there's a massive amount of overlap between most of the cartridges--and it's even more telling when you think that there's many more cartridges which don't even appear on the chart at all.

  3. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >with a few mm in difference
    there's zero mm difference you dunce.
    it means frick all, almost every barrel has a 5.56 chamber these days, and even if you have a .223 chamber shooting 5.56 ammo through it only has like a 0.000001% chance of causing a problem.

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >there's zero mm difference you dunce.
      The case length, moron-kun.

      • 4 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        There is no difference in case length between .223 and 5.56 you dumb Black person, the only time one appears it's a rounding error from someone converting 1.76" to metric

      • 4 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        are you using wikipedia as your source?
        type this into a calculator: 1.76*25.4

      • 4 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        There's 0 difference dimensionaly.

        5.56 just runs hotter.

  4. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Dam... This idiot will really be seething when they learn there's a .223 chamber and a 5.56 chamber.

  5. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    They are identical. If your shartmart rifle thinks otherwise and jams, buy other brand

    7.62x53
    7.62x54R
    Are the same round. If your rifle says otherwise, you remember its soviet. Soviet guns just work. Just close it harder

  6. 4 weeks ago
    Foxbat

    >with a few mm in difference
    >a few mm
    So are you talking about .223 and .308 you moron?

  7. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    There is no difference in size , you are probably thinking of .222 Remington , from which .223 was derived.

    The main and only relevant difference is chamber pressures, 5.56 operates at slightly higher pressure, and thats because when .223 was adopted as 5.56 NATO in 80's, barrel lengths were shorter than 20 inch .223 was designed for.

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      There is also a difference in the chamber, specifically the length of the throat. I've heard that the supposed difference in pressure is due to the different way pressure is measured by nato vs saami but I don't know for sure.

      • 4 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        I actually just checked and CIP (European agency) rating for .223 matches 5.56 NATO EPVAT at 4300 bar (430MPa, ~62000 PSI).
        Is SAAMI(American agency) which gives .223 low rating of 3800 bar (380 MPa, ~55000PSI).

        IMO, just buy 5.56 as it can safely fire both cartridges.

        • 4 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          The difference largely is caused by different measurement methods. SAAMI measures from about the center of the cartridge case, military spec tests from the case mouth, and CIP is a different method altogether. The real world pressure differences between .223/5.56 are minimal.

          https://www.luckygunner.com/labs/5-56-vs-223/

          The danger from loading 5.56 in a .223 chamber is almost non-existent, the notion that your gun will blow up from doing that is extremely overblown.

          • 4 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            >and CIP is a different method altogether.
            CIP measures from mid-cartridge with piezoelectric sensor exposed to the pressure through a hole drilled into the casing. pic related.

            here's an overview: https://www.gunsandammo.com/editorial/ammunition-pressure-testing/458750

          • 4 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            >almost non-existent
            I feel so much better.

  8. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >There is no difference. t. low iq

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Post a single instance where it actually caused a problem.
      >t. owns .223, .223 Wylde and 5.56 guns and shoots whatever out of all of these

      • 4 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        My .223 bolt won't close on a max-tolerance 5.56 round without me ramming it in forcibly, because that's how size works you moron.

        • 4 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          >every gun owner says they work interchangeably
          >”yeah well my guns fricking BROKEN and won’t chamber! Ha! Bet you guys feel dumb now!”

          Thanks anon
          Get a real gun holy shit

        • 4 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          your rifle has extremely tight chamber, you should frick it

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      why make such a small difference? what a bunch of c**ts.

      • 4 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        .223 was standardized by SAAMI in the early 60s. NATO tweaked the cartridge for the next ~15 years until they standardized it as the 5.56. Once a cartridge is standardized through SAAMI they don't really change the specifications, hence the small differences

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Got'em

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Learn about freebore + learn about bullet jump = learn about Bullet Accuracy.

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      This is ocd

      • 4 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        >This is ocd
        Precision Gunsmithing,
        Obsessive Compulsive Yes.... but no Disorder.

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      you can shoot either in either chamber

      please provide evidence of at least one (1) instance where a 5.56 round damaged a 223 only weapon.

      • 4 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        >please provide evidence of at least one (1) instance where a 5.56 round damaged a 223 only weapon.

        I don't think you will find many instances, because most aren't moronic to try and risk losing their guns, and maybe even their lives.

        • 4 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          >because most aren't moronic

          People ARE moronic as frick, they're moronic enough to accidentally shoot .300 Blk in fricking 5.56 guns a lot of the time.
          The fact that people are this moronic but NOT A SINGLE PERSON has managed to ever blow themselves up by mistaking 5.56 for .223 or vice versa tells you everything you need to know.
          moron.

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >second of angle
      There is no fricking way any cartridge is standardized to 1/3600th of a degree. The variance in case manufacturing machinery can be measured in MOA.

      • 4 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        That spec is not for the cartridge case, it's for the chamber. And that pic doesn't mention any tolerance either, that nominal number doesn't really mean anything in terms of manufacturing precision without also knowing that the tolerance is.

  9. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >with a few mm in difference
    Are you moronic

  10. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    The US armed forces didn't want fudd chucklefricks stealing government munitions.

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      This and moronic yuro countries have llaws that civilians aren't allowed to own guns in "military calibers," so gun manufacturers just chamber all their rifles for the consumer market in "223 Remington" to get around this.

      • 4 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        no, that's bullshit. almost no country still does this and in those that do, .223 is of course banned.

        • 4 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          nope

      • 4 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        No. It's because Euro gun ownership operates on CIP standards and CIP doesn't "know" 5.56, only .223

      • 4 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        >This and moronic yuro countries have llaws that civilians aren't allowed to own guns in "military calibers,"
        Name 1 (one) yuro country that does this

        • 4 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          Every gun/ammunition produced for the military is a weapon of law under german law and illegal to own for civilians.

          • 4 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            *weapon of war

          • 4 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            true for firearms, not true for ammo. the problem with NATO ammo and civilian sales is that all civilian ammo must conform to CIP standards and NATO ammo doesn't, because it's not marked like a CIP cartridge would be. remarked NATO surplus is available for civilians.

            • 4 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              It is true for ammo, but your case is the reverse. The surplus ammo that is allowed is the one that was made for civie calibre in the first place and it can't be spicy ammo. FMJ only.

              > VIII. Sonstige Munition
              >49. Munition für die Waffen der Nummern 31 und 32
              >50. Munition für die Waffen der Nummer 29, ausgenommen Patronenmunition mit Vollmantelweichkerngeschoss, sofern

              >1. das Geschoss keine Zusätze, insbesondere keinen Lichtspur-, Brand- oder Sprengsatz, enthält und
              >2. Patronenmunition gleichen Kalibers für Jagd- oder Sportzwecke verwendet wird

              For the german military of for a military?
              Because that doesn't mean that Germans can't own military caliber weapons

              [...]
              By what law

              For all militaries. The law regulates by purpose/inherent characteristics. Funnily enough machine guns with water-cooling are exempt as are all machine pistols, fully-automatic and semi-automatic rifles introduced by any military prior to 2nd of September 1945. They are of course still banned for the general public just not as banned as other newer guns.

          • 4 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            For the german military of for a military?
            Because that doesn't mean that Germans can't own military caliber weapons

            France

            By what law

        • 4 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          France

          • 4 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            proof/source? not to my knowledge.

        • 4 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          Italy used to have that law but they recently rescinded it apparently.
          That's why the beretta 98 exists, regular beretta 92s in 9x19 were illegal in their home country.

          • 4 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            >but they recently rescinded it apparently.
            Frick, gotta go buy a 92FS

  11. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >few mm
    The cartridges are literally identical and completely interchangeable. What you're doing is complaining about the difference between .380 ACP and 9mm Browning short. Literally the same thing.

    The only difference is the slightly longer freebore on a 5.56 chamber to accommodate some military specific ammunition.

    They are used nowadays as a branding exercise. .223 generally used to market civilian targeted products (hunting, plinking) while 5.56 is generally used to market military (for government sale or larperator) oriented products.

  12. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    My gun is chambered in .223 wylde but I can't find that ammo anywhere

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >I can't find that ammo anywhere
      load your own. Its not hard, start slow, buy a progressive machine and just buy the components then reload the spent brass. It is not cost effective for say 9mm, but for many cartridges it is. You try some various loadings to find what works best in your gun, then just load hundreds or thousands of those, or as you need.

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Assuming this isn't b8, .223 Wylde isn't a cartridge. It's a chambering. It combines the internal chamber dimensions of both .223 and 556 and, *in theory*, is more accurate than 5.56 but more capable of handling high pressures than .223

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      my sides.
      nice

      • 4 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        >223

  13. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Who cares, no one's been making .223 barrels for ages anyways

  14. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    If this confuses you, just think of 5.56 as .223 +P

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      WRONG

  15. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    You are an idiot. Educate yourself.

  16. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >accuracy consideration for short and long bullet
    Pretty much it other than saammmiii pressure number

  17. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Only case difference is primer pocket. 5.56mm should always have the primer picket swaged. Most military are also sealed. Full auto can vibrate primers loose.

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      that's not really a case difference it's a different loading procedure, dimensionally the primer pocket is the same on .223 brass and can be crimped just the same as military ammo if the manufacturer wanted to. same thing for the primer/mouth sealant, that can also be done to anything it just usually isn't for commercial ammo because it's unnecessary.

  18. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Aren't they basically compatible? What's the issue?

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Ancient fuddlore.
      >NOOOO YOU CAN'T SHOOT 5.56 OUT OF A GUN THAT SAYS .223 OR IT WILL ASSPLODE

  19. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    do 223 wylde barrels have any real advantages?

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      they have no disadvantages because again it's fundamentally the same thing with just a tiny difference in throat design which is a non-issue for normal ammo.

  20. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    It's the same fricking shit, you dumb Black person gorilla. The difference is in pressure

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      no, it's not.

  21. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    think about all the morons who blow their guns up trying to shoot .300 BLACKED out of a 5.56 rifle, yet you never hear about anyone blowing himself up because he shot 5.56 out of a .223 chamber. if the danger actually existed there would be tons of stories about it.

  22. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    tl;dr:

  23. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >a few mm in difference

    a few mm result in failure to chamber, asshat.

  24. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    5.56 NATO is loaded different than it's parent cartridge .223. Iirc the official 5.56 NATO cartridge was actually "developed" by a group in Belgium (could've been FN I don't know). Basically 5.56 is .223 but loaded different and has a higher pressure. Any AR that is marked ".223" can 100% shoot 5.56 though and there's a very very low chance a problem will emerge directly because of the slightly higher pressure of 5.56. They make .223 that is as high pressure as your standard M193 stuff, i don't know how someone can say "Oh yeah that's okay because that's .223" but not accept it's safe to shoot 5.56 that's the exact same case and pressure. Also, the whole .223 vs 5.56 thing is just from stupid fricking old heads in the past having "commercial" and "military" style shit for like no fricking real reason. That's why there's commercial pattern ARs and Mil-spec ARs, stupid fudds carrying on old shit traditions. I fricking hate old people a lot.

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >Basically 5.56 is .223 but loaded different and has a higher pressure.

      Not really, Euro .223 loads go to 62,000 PSI fine, see

      I actually just checked and CIP (European agency) rating for .223 matches 5.56 NATO EPVAT at 4300 bar (430MPa, ~62000 PSI).
      Is SAAMI(American agency) which gives .223 low rating of 3800 bar (380 MPa, ~55000PSI).

      IMO, just buy 5.56 as it can safely fire both cartridges.

      The difference between 5.56 and .223 ammo (not chambers) is entirely academic.

      • 4 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Yeah I mentioned about some .223 being just as high pressure as 5.56. When I said basically I meant without complicating the subject more than needed.
        >Well actually in Europe they load it like this
        Yea yea yea, there's always something to tack on but I'm just trying to put it simply for all the kids reading the autistic caliber debate.

        • 4 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          To put it simply for the kids reading the autistic caliber debate you should've said "they're the same fricking thing and no one ever had a single catastrophic malfunction combining .223 and 5.56 in any way, shape or form".

          • 4 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            I guess you're right, I have too much faith in these stupid fricks. I guess I just wanted to believe that they could understand me.

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      So there's absolutely no reason to care about .223 or 5,56 or Wyldes?
      I've spent so much time on reading up about this because fudds peddle that shit, god

      • 4 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        >So there's absolutely no reason to care about .223 or 5,56 or Wyldes?
        You are THEORETICALLY gonna get better accuracy potential out of a .223 or Wylde chamber due to the shorter and tighter freebore compared to a true 5.56 chambering.
        In practice, it all depends on the manufacturer and the ammo.

      • 4 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        there is no reason to care because the only possible case where it's even theoretically possible for a problem to arise is if you have a barrel chambered for .223 remington, and almost no one makes those anymore for AR-15s. 5.56 and .223 wylde chambers can shoot anything .223/5.56 just fine with ZERO problem, even theoretically.

        • 4 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          Even if your barrel is chambered for .223 Remington specifically it'll run 5.56. They just had a stupid back and forth about case dimensions.

  25. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    That's it. I'm going to make a 223 upper and shoot m193 through it. Frick this.

  26. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    that concept used to be the standard, i have a drilling chambered in 9.3x72d, which is .005 inches narrower than the much more common 9.3x72r, which is completely unable to chamber.
    the d stood for deutsch, and in similar guns in the early 1900s there were both 9.3x72f for french and 9.3x72e for english, which would later become the standard rimmed version we have today

  27. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Could we ask some famous youtuber to shoot 1000 x 5.56 ammo through a .223 firearm and test if anything happens?

  28. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    There's an ian video that explains it for you which boils down to different standards, sammi was established and couldn't change, then nato wanted slightly different spec.

  29. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    well, I'm grateful as 556 and 762x51 are banned in my country but I can still shoot them by buying 223 and 308

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