I’m gonna play devils advocate here because i can absolutely see a semi or fully auto 20 round shotgun being a much more effective proposition than a traditional pump action shorty >for home defense? no >for literal war clearing out a room? yes
FPSRussia's a rich kid who was LARPing as a Russian while magdumping "cool" guns down range for an audience of CoD kiddies. He didn't even discuss tactical gear, small squad tactics, training, gun laws or any other "spicy" topics.
Honestly on a squad level, making some sort of tandem explosive/air burst low velocity grenade (40 or 43mm) that holds a wad of tungsten or tool steel shot that can provide extended angular range would fit the bill better than some solution looking for a problem. I had a bar napkin schematic and was planning on designing it with a mech engie friend of mine but we got bored once we realized we had to deal with the Swedes for RALFOS.
you mean the footage that could easily be faked by just shooting your OWN drone down? how many fricking times do people need to be told how improbable it is that you will spot a drone AND have the time to react and shoot it?
do yourself a favor and buy a 20 dollar PoS quadcopter, fly it straight up and see how quickly it becomes invisible.
Let's be realistic here, why would you need a fully automatic shotgun when you could just use a a rifle? I mean its a crazy cool concept and fun gun I'm sure, but practically? There isnt any reason to use one.
novelty doesn't really mean good, does it have potential for automated turret and overwatch systems and crowd control? definitely, general large scale insiderized infantry use definitely not but that's not what the AA12 or any shotgun is trying to be designed for. It's a tragedy. what happened with the overall project and all the collectivized efforts and all the people who try to resurrect it multiple times over and over It's all bog down with legal lawsuits and logistical nightmares. I say let's sleeping dogs lay and give the M3 to the boys on the front lines who needs it
They are pretty useless. The only valid uses for shotguns i heard of from my army buddies was 75th rangers using the snubnose for door breaching or when my old PSG that was a combat engineer gunner had a dude jumping on his MRAP in Afghanistan and he couldn't traverser the .50cal to shoot him so he blew his hand off with a shotgun because he was trying to open the hatch to throw in a grenade. Vehicle crews trained on shotguns but i'd take an m4 any day of the week
It was in MW2, I grinded on that to get the drum mag and it was way overpowered up close. Not quite as bad as akimbo model 1887s but was nasty up close
It was in MW2 and was good after they nerfed the duel shotguns. In MW3 its range and damage was nerfed to shit. Funny thing I put a suppressor on it once and the range was so low that guys in the same room wouldn't take damage if they were only a few feet away.
Yeah I never had a good experience with MK19s. Either something wrong with the timing, wrong lube, Mercury in retrograde, shit would always stop up after like 3 rounds
Ajin. It has a lot of operator kino, great art and is one of the few pieces of media with paranormal shit happening where the designated special response team is not a bunch of jobbers. I highly recommend it but if you gonna read it just keep it in mind that vol 1 feels way different from the rest of the story because original author fricked off and art guy took it over.
was just re-reading it and wondered why the first volume was so different from the rest of the series. Story and characters definitely took a turn for the better with the artist at the helm
Because shotguns dont hold much place on modern battlefields except for breaching doors of buildings. Heavy as frick, doesnt have the range or penetration of an intermediate cartridge and Americans prolly dont like circular magazines. Even though they are rounded and child safe
Because Veprs/Saiga12s were able to do the same thing in a much more convenient and less cumbersome manner. AK pattern shotguns were what killed the AA-12.
>wat? the AA-12 is noteworthy because it has no recoil unlike basically every other shotgun.
Yeah, and it's fricking huge, and it's heavy, and it has a giant magazine. Why have a shotgun like that when you could just have a M249?
If you're going to be using less-lethal rounds (that need manual cycling) then the added bulk of a bigass full-auto shotgun is wasted. You're better off with a regular pump.
no one makes those 20lb pos shotguns anymore, what are you talking about?
https://i.imgur.com/fhv4wez.jpg
Why was it never adopted?
The inventor was a bootlicking homosexual miser that drove his own patents into becoming unobtainium. Literally everyone hated dealing with him and stopped trying to get rights to manufacture it.
I might be wrong, but I think he actually died and trying to get rights to build it has become a legal quagmire
My mistake, it was one of two partners Jerry Baber that had rights to the design. He would literally snitch on people to the ATF to try and get people arrested over nothing. Absolute POS.
It's a whole fricking saga that's too long to type out. The short version is one guy owned the patents, other guy owned the production machinery. Patent guy sells out to 3rd party. Machinery guy blows a gasket because 3rd party bypassed him, makes a big stink with the ATF claiming 3rd party is illegally manufacturing machineguns. Machinery guy is hoist by his own petard when ATF starts digging and finds out he was operating without a manufacturer's FFL or something. I lost track of the whole clusterfrick after that.
It's funny how people uncritically swallow 20 year old marketing slop about this gun and repeat it as the gospel truth. It's unthinkable to them that the dude hawking it like a carnival barker with ridiculous claims about how it was the world's first maintenance free firearm design, the bolt was made of "unobtainium", it suffered no wear, and used carbon fouling for lubrication might have been full of shit and it just wasn't a very good gun.
Everyone involved in this is a fricking moron. The boomer who bought the rights sounds like he doesn't even have the slightest fricking clue what manufacturing guns entails. Of course the ATF is going to be up your ass. They do that to everyone in the business. They aren't singling you out for making a dumb meme shotgun.
>snitched on
which implies he was doing some dumb shit in the first place. why throw that word in, if he wasnt being "snitched" on in the first place. did the lying scumbag just lie, or did he "snitch". if he wasnt breaking a law or trying to get away with something, telling the atf about it isnt "snitching", its just fricking lying.
This dude is a scumfrick. Never refunded the rubes who put thousands down to preorder those guns and as far as I know the company is out of business now. They were also involved in a whole clusterfrick with Stag Arms and Radian prior to that that had to do with them selling chink knockoff Raptor charging handles as their own design.
So what happened after this? That was 2 years ago and I can't find anything more recent about this company or the semiauto version hey were supposed to make.
Because the amount of people actually killed with a shotgun in any modern conflict is probably somewhere in the triple digits if we're being extremely optimistic.
I don't think America likes circular magazines
>I don't think America likes circular magazines
I don't think circular magazines like being ergonomical
It offers no substantial benefit over existing guns.
I’m gonna play devils advocate here because i can absolutely see a semi or fully auto 20 round shotgun being a much more effective proposition than a traditional pump action shorty
>for home defense? no
>for literal war clearing out a room? yes
no
you don't need an xbox huge shotty to breach
>16 lbs loaded, 32 rounds
it was fricking heavy for not much ammo and not much actual use case
M1014 and mosberg pump fit the bill just fine.
Because it was a piece of shit. Why do you think it had absolutely zero takers in the 50 years they were trying to sell this turd?
Because machine guns are banned in US. Too dangerous to sell them to ordinary people.
How long until the glowies get the Leviathan guys like they did with Kyle?
leviathan is a glowie asset
FPSRussia's a rich kid who was LARPing as a Russian while magdumping "cool" guns down range for an audience of CoD kiddies. He didn't even discuss tactical gear, small squad tactics, training, gun laws or any other "spicy" topics.
Hew blew shit up before demo ranch. stop hating fun.
Should made it belt fed with a giggle switch.
Unironically would be viable in the modern drone world.
lol no
Honestly on a squad level, making some sort of tandem explosive/air burst low velocity grenade (40 or 43mm) that holds a wad of tungsten or tool steel shot that can provide extended angular range would fit the bill better than some solution looking for a problem. I had a bar napkin schematic and was planning on designing it with a mech engie friend of mine but we got bored once we realized we had to deal with the Swedes for RALFOS.
That's just a 1/2 scale RC plane
Yes and it has a Brazillian flag, still makes me hate dealing with the Swedes for buying explosives.
>IKEA plane
>made from sustainable affordable materials: woodchips, sawdust, and wood shavings.
Explosives charges are bad at propelling projectile to come side (ie forward). And and circular charges has low projectiles density.
Does anyone got the webm were there is this guy shooting down a drone at Ukraine?
you mean the footage that could easily be faked by just shooting your OWN drone down? how many fricking times do people need to be told how improbable it is that you will spot a drone AND have the time to react and shoot it?
do yourself a favor and buy a 20 dollar PoS quadcopter, fly it straight up and see how quickly it becomes invisible.
Let's be realistic here, why would you need a fully automatic shotgun when you could just use a a rifle? I mean its a crazy cool concept and fun gun I'm sure, but practically? There isnt any reason to use one.
novelty doesn't really mean good, does it have potential for automated turret and overwatch systems and crowd control? definitely, general large scale insiderized infantry use definitely not but that's not what the AA12 or any shotgun is trying to be designed for. It's a tragedy. what happened with the overall project and all the collectivized efforts and all the people who try to resurrect it multiple times over and over It's all bog down with legal lawsuits and logistical nightmares. I say let's sleeping dogs lay and give the M3 to the boys on the front lines who needs it
because combat shotguns are stupid
They are pretty useless. The only valid uses for shotguns i heard of from my army buddies was 75th rangers using the snubnose for door breaching or when my old PSG that was a combat engineer gunner had a dude jumping on his MRAP in Afghanistan and he couldn't traverser the .50cal to shoot him so he blew his hand off with a shotgun because he was trying to open the hatch to throw in a grenade. Vehicle crews trained on shotguns but i'd take an m4 any day of the week
kek that made me think of the scene where the T-1000 got his hand blown off
it was to overpowered in MW2
I forgot wasn't it only in MW3 and not in MW2 sorry it's been a very long time since I played any of the old Call of Duty games.
It was in MW2, I grinded on that to get the drum mag and it was way overpowered up close. Not quite as bad as akimbo model 1887s but was nasty up close
It was in MW2 and was good after they nerfed the duel shotguns. In MW3 its range and damage was nerfed to shit. Funny thing I put a suppressor on it once and the range was so low that guys in the same room wouldn't take damage if they were only a few feet away.
the mini grenade loads did not pan out hence it did nothing else more.
Most HE rounds are really unreliable and the maintenance is a nightmare. I'll take a .50 cal over a mk19 any day of the week.
Yeah I never had a good experience with MK19s. Either something wrong with the timing, wrong lube, Mercury in retrograde, shit would always stop up after like 3 rounds
>tfw you will never blast a paranormal Black person away with aa-12
why live
Whats that dude looking at the ground for..
Anti aim. Dude's hacking in manga
he is dodging the Black person
whats the source it looks neat
Ajin. It has a lot of operator kino, great art and is one of the few pieces of media with paranormal shit happening where the designated special response team is not a bunch of jobbers. I highly recommend it but if you gonna read it just keep it in mind that vol 1 feels way different from the rest of the story because original author fricked off and art guy took it over.
was just re-reading it and wondered why the first volume was so different from the rest of the series. Story and characters definitely took a turn for the better with the artist at the helm
>sato literally takes over japan
>nah i just wanted to lure in some navy seals to test myself, you can have the country back
>tfw you will never blast a paranormal Black person away with aa-12
speak for yourself
Because shotguns dont hold much place on modern battlefields except for breaching doors of buildings. Heavy as frick, doesnt have the range or penetration of an intermediate cartridge and Americans prolly dont like circular magazines. Even though they are rounded and child safe
The American military hates fun, on a pathological level.
Because Veprs/Saiga12s were able to do the same thing in a much more convenient and less cumbersome manner. AK pattern shotguns were what killed the AA-12.
wat? the AA-12 is noteworthy because it has no recoil unlike basically every other shotgun.
>wat? the AA-12 is noteworthy because it has no recoil unlike basically every other shotgun.
Yeah, and it's fricking huge, and it's heavy, and it has a giant magazine. Why have a shotgun like that when you could just have a M249?
A m249 can't shoot less-lethal rounds moron.
If you're going to be using less-lethal rounds (that need manual cycling) then the added bulk of a bigass full-auto shotgun is wasted. You're better off with a regular pump.
no one makes those 20lb pos shotguns anymore, what are you talking about?
The inventor was a bootlicking homosexual miser that drove his own patents into becoming unobtainium. Literally everyone hated dealing with him and stopped trying to get rights to manufacture it.
I might be wrong, but I think he actually died and trying to get rights to build it has become a legal quagmire
My mistake, it was one of two partners Jerry Baber that had rights to the design. He would literally snitch on people to the ATF to try and get people arrested over nothing. Absolute POS.
https://www.athlonoutdoors.com/article/sol-invictus-aa-12-shotgun-atf/
It's a whole fricking saga that's too long to type out. The short version is one guy owned the patents, other guy owned the production machinery. Patent guy sells out to 3rd party. Machinery guy blows a gasket because 3rd party bypassed him, makes a big stink with the ATF claiming 3rd party is illegally manufacturing machineguns. Machinery guy is hoist by his own petard when ATF starts digging and finds out he was operating without a manufacturer's FFL or something. I lost track of the whole clusterfrick after that.
It's funny how people uncritically swallow 20 year old marketing slop about this gun and repeat it as the gospel truth. It's unthinkable to them that the dude hawking it like a carnival barker with ridiculous claims about how it was the world's first maintenance free firearm design, the bolt was made of "unobtainium", it suffered no wear, and used carbon fouling for lubrication might have been full of shit and it just wasn't a very good gun.
Watch this before any of you comment again.
>one hour
tl;dr one of the guys that had legal right was a bootlicking backstabbing homosexual that fricked over everyone he ever spoke to.
Everyone involved in this is a fricking moron. The boomer who bought the rights sounds like he doesn't even have the slightest fricking clue what manufacturing guns entails. Of course the ATF is going to be up your ass. They do that to everyone in the business. They aren't singling you out for making a dumb meme shotgun.
he was literally snitched on by a lying scumbag. kind of different from the rudimentary ATF ass pounding.
>snitched on
which implies he was doing some dumb shit in the first place. why throw that word in, if he wasnt being "snitched" on in the first place. did the lying scumbag just lie, or did he "snitch". if he wasnt breaking a law or trying to get away with something, telling the atf about it isnt "snitching", its just fricking lying.
This dude is a scumfrick. Never refunded the rubes who put thousands down to preorder those guns and as far as I know the company is out of business now. They were also involved in a whole clusterfrick with Stag Arms and Radian prior to that that had to do with them selling chink knockoff Raptor charging handles as their own design.
So what happened after this? That was 2 years ago and I can't find anything more recent about this company or the semiauto version hey were supposed to make.
What does it do that an AR with a 10.5 inch barrel can't do just as well, while also being lighter and more viable at longer ranges as well as CQB?
Because the amount of people actually killed with a shotgun in any modern conflict is probably somewhere in the triple digits if we're being extremely optimistic.
because they're so darn stupid.
What is the use case?
he a chunky boi