Why was Iran Iraq a stalemate when Iraq had the 4th largest army and had chem and bio weapons?
Why was Iran Iraq a stalemate when Iraq had the 4th largest army and had chem and bio weapons?
Why was Iran Iraq a stalemate when Iraq had the 4th largest army and had chem and bio weapons?
Go here on google maps and turn on terrain mode.
https://www.google.com/maps/@31.5075133,51.3173989,6.75z
Holy frick. How do you use armor in that terrain?
You drive your western tanks into a swamp where they immediately bog down and then blame the west for making bad tanks.
Stupid Anglos shouldn't make obese tanks then.
Arent tanks amphibious these days?
Lol.
Some can "wade" ie. drive on the bottom with a snorkel but you need to be sure the bottom isn't something you are going to get bogged in or you are going to die a terrible death.
Swamps tend to be muddy so this isn't an option even ignoring trees and other complications in the way.
Couldnt you fill up a big bag with air and have someone swim down and cover the hatch with the bag so the tankers can get out of ze tank without water pushing in and then swim to the surface?
Militiary vehicles like AFVs/Tanks aren't now and have never been hermetically airtight or watertight.
In amphibious mode, they leak and offset it with a bilge pump.
When in NCB protection mode, they activate a positive pressure system to keep out outside air.
You chuck the corpses from the previous assaults into the swamp, cover it in lye and sand and voila!
you may now assault mechanically*
*results may vary
>how bad can it really be
>pick a random google streetview panorama in the northern border region
lol, lmao even can't imagine how it turned into a quagmire ps that region is breathtakingly beautiful
Damn, that is pretty.
Ideal tank country.
damn iran is pretty
I wish we weren't about to bomb it to smithereens in a few years otherwise I'd love to visit it peacefully
It kills me how beautiful some of these places are. Reminds me of how if you look past the war torn drudgery, Aghanistan is an absolutely gorgeous country as well.
Also some of the trout species I have on a bucket list also happen to be in the more dangerous areas of Turkey, Iran, and Iraq.
It annoys me greatly too, there’s a lot of places I’d like to go but can’t because if I do I’m going to end up the star of a 1970’s Italian shock exploitation flick
How do you bucket throuts? Why?
Adventure~
It just comes down to the fact that theirs a lot of unique trout species in the world, and most of the pretty ones tend to be in some really whack places.
For example, the Korean DMZ has two really beautiful variations of the Manchurian and Cherry Trout. You can *sometimes* gets permission to fish for them, but you usually need to go through paperwork hell to get to them.
It's the threat of, "Being executed by ISIS or Kurdish forces" that keeps me from going fishing in the mountain ranges of eastern Turkey.
The ground war never reached that far inside Iran. The Iraqis were stopped at Ahvaz and thrown back.
2 million dead and wounded almost all located across the marshlands and plains of Khorramshar to Basra.
zeihanesque answer
it was NOT the mountains that stopped iraq
Arabs vs not Arabs
>Arabs vs not Arabs
>https://www.meforum.org/441/why-arabs-lose-wars
/thread
Iranians aren't Arabs you uneducated morons
>waaaaah they're totally the """white""" ancestors of slavs waaaaaaah
Eat shit. All durkas are a-rabs.
yeah, they're the "not Arabs" in the sentence you copied and posted, esl-kun
>STATE GOLEM
Iran had more bodies and Tomcats. Also a year into the war the entire dynamic shifted. It went from Iran defending from an Iraqi invasion to Iraq defending from an Iranian counter-invasion since Khomeini was obsessed with the idea of toppling Saddam.
Why did he fail to topple saddam if they had more men and planes?
NTA
Iraq had a huge armour advantage which was made near useless by
When Iran tried to push back they were trying to take flat terrain Iraq could use those tanks on.
It's funny to me how on /k/ everyone will discuss every aspect of war from equipment to geopolitics but terrain is so often forgotten.
>someone makes a hypothetical invasion of US thread
>People comment about Appalachians, Sierra Nevada, Cascades
>A very clear understanding of the South's Marshland's and oil facilities
>make a thread about invading another country
>"Yeah bro, just hellfire missiles and we won"
Geography determines tempo and control, something too many forget. The US for years had trouble with controlling Central Afghanistan because it was mountainous and the Taliban used it advantageously. The same thing happened to the Soviets. Two massive military powers couldn't absolutely dominate over rough territory, allowing insurgency to take route. You can argue the same with Vietcong/ NVA in South East Asia jungle terrain.
This board needs to start looking at Maps with terrain gradients added.
Iran couldn't replace any vehicle losses effectively. Their industry at the time was only capable of producing small arms, AT weapons and ammo. Basically any M60 or Chieftain destroyed was an irreplaceable loss. It was even worse in terms of aircraft for them since wear and tear took a toll on their air force. Buying shit abroad was also not an option as except for North Korea nobody was willing to trade with Iran.
Iraq by contrast could count on the support of the USSR, US and France. So vehicle losses weren't much of an issue for them. They also had a ton of cash and could buy even more weapons from China. Finally they could also rely on chemical weapons which they produced locally.
By the end of the war Iran simply lacked the means to continue fighting effectively and an Iraqi counter-invasion seemed more likely. So Khomeini eventually had no choice but to agree the cease-fire and a return to status quo.
But why didn't saddam tell kohmeni to frick off since he had such a huge advantage? Was Iran able to frick Iraq up? Those numbers look pretty bad for Iran.
Saddam wanted out of the war since '82 when he realized his plans of conquest won't go anywhere. Khomeini kept saying 'no u go then only peace'. So it went on for five more years until the Iranians finally gave up.
Mah food, back the Iraq although a middle-Eastern dictatorship was much more "civilised" than the ragheads we know today. Iran on the other hand went full Jihad, we are talking child soldiers, mass infantry assaults compensating the lack in equipment with catastrophic casualties.
And you have remember despite all the artillery and armor advantage Iraq still needed infantry to take land.
Eventually they would reach stalemate and that would be that.
What is funny is what comes next when the US demolishes Saddam.
Most of the soldiers were so tired after 8 years of war that when they saw that the USAF was pushing their shit in they just abandoned their positions.
By the time of the peace deal Iraq was in huge debt due to taking loans to pay for the war. Which is the main reason they invaded Kuwait a few years later.
Much of Iran's weaponry was supplied by Israel of all countries.
>Unable to get military equipment from the Carter administration, the Iranians reached out through back channels to the Israeli government and negotiated a preliminary covert arms deal between the two countries. In early 1980, the first military equipment sale by Israel to the Iranian government of Ayatollah Khomeini occurred, when Israel sold to Iran a large number of tires for the F-4 Phantom fighter jet.[12][13][14][15][16] The net profit from the sale gave rise to an extra-budgetary Likud party/intelligence community slush fund, which grew substantial over the next years.
Likud is Netanyahu's party btw
>Israeli arms sales to Iran totaled an estimated $500 million from 1981 to 1983 according to the Jaffe Institute for Strategic Studies at Tel Aviv University. Other arms experts estimated the total sales at more than $500 million per year including aircraft spare parts, artillery, and ammunition.173 Internal U.S. government reports indicated that in the early 1980s total Israeli arms sale to Iran approached $2 billion each year. Most of it was paid for by Iranian oil delivered to Israel. According to Ahmad Haidari, an arms dealer who worked for the Iranian government, "roughly 80 percent of the weaponry bought by Tehran immediately after the onset of the war originated in Israel." The fact "that the Iranian air force could function at all", according to Mark Phythian, after Iraq's initial attack and "was able to undertake a number of sorties over Baghdad and strike at strategic installations" was "at least partly due to the decision of the Reagan administration to allow Israel to channel arms of US origin to Iran to prevent an easy and early Iraqi victory."
A 1h46 video explaining the Reagan administration using Israel as a middle-man for arms sales, also known as "Iran-Contra":
OOOOOLLIE NORTH
OOOOOLLIE NORTH
CAUSE WHAT THEY DID WAS TECHNICALLY HIGH TREASON
How quickly America will abandon any principles it has when it gets in the way of Israeli profiteering.
It was an attempt to release hostages and also pocket some of the money to then divert to the Contras which had been blocked from getting American aid by legislature.
Principles were abandoned, but not for Israel.
But apparently you missed the part where Iran was doing the same, as they say, realpolitiks, kek.
don't they teach about Iran-Contra in schools?
Iran’s materiel advantage was from when they were still in good terms with the West, by the time of the ayatollah they were pretty much full pariah state. So whatever they lost couldn’t easily be replaced since they were essentially by themselves. Iraq was supported by both the US and USSR both financially and materially. Iraq was simply able to weather whatever may have happened to it, whereas Iran was on very thin ice to where every single bit of equipment (and especially aircraft) counted. O
Iran was basically proto ISIS as far as radicalism went, the ayatollah wanted Saddam gone and he was going to stop at nothing to make it happen.
>Move from the Southern border
>GIT OUTTA MUH SWAMP
>Move from the Central border
>Welcome to Kansas in the desert, so much flat earth that Green Party morons are salivating.
>Northern Border...
>lol. lmao. Welcome to the Rocky Mountains.
Arabs suck at war
Neither Iran nor Iraq are Arab.
mudslimes = arabs
Arabs aren't even the majority of Muslims, moron-kun
>Iraq are Arab.
Iraq is heavy majority Arabs with a small minority of Kurds (white) and a sprinkling of Turkmen (Turkic), Assyrians (white), Persians (white) and Bedouin.
Saddam was full Arab, which is why he was so bad at war
>Persians (white)
It appears warrior-BRRRRRAPP has entered the channel. He always manages to unveil himself.
>be persian diaspora
>fire up computer
>open browser
>make horrendous posts
>Kurds (white) and a sprinkling of Turkmen (Turkic), Assyrians (white), Persians (white)
Lmao. Nice try Mubarak
None of them are white. Mexicans at least have some (spanish) admixture, you fricknut burgermutt
>kurds
>white
biji wiji moment
It's all not white to me (including the greeks)
>strong air defenses
>weak airforces
That's what you need to break ground stalemats. Otherwise it turns into artillery fights with minefields and human wave tactics (hmm...).
Iran also had a formidable military of its own, plus they were fighting defensively initially.
This is true, but the air operations of the Iran-Iraq War were cool as frick.
because they had dog shit leadership and going through shit tier terrain, also chem/bio weapons have always been meme since turns out its really hard to kill people with said weapons out in the open, and in an age when every military and a good chunk of civilians have access to gas masks
child soldiers are op plz nerf
Child soldiers are just wrong
>The unsurmountable loss of a loving parent cannot be described in words. Statistics state that over 1.1 million children in Yemen have lost their parents to the ongoing conflict
>It's estimated that 2,600 children have been forced into armed groups.
yeah, that's what christianity will do to the west since "we are all brothers in christ". not to be a basedtheist but I DESPISE this about abrahamic religions
Nah, look at both liberals and soviets, they too didn't have any issues murdering, shaming and provoking destructive behavior among "their side", it's more about human nature, it's them "commiting the sins", not us.
No, look for mid to long term cuantitative results if you want to take sides, it may not work 100 percent of times but it's better than blind faith.
Arabs are terrible at war. It's why Turks, israelites, Anglos and Persians manage to outsmart them every single time even when the Arabs have a 10:1 numerical advantage.
>had chem and bio weapons
These aren't war winning weapons; never have been
Chemical weapons aren't very effective. The reason most countries don't use them has nothing to do with treaties or being inhumane. It's because they're more trouble than they're worth.
Gas masks and PPE suits are very cheap pieces of equipment in the grand scheme of all the things necessary to fight a war.
Chemical weapons were one of the key elements of latter war Iraq's offensive.
Gas mask ain't gonna save you from nerve gas and you aren't wearing rubber suit all day in the Iran's desert. Filtration suit, only NATO had some big stocks of them (and they wouldn't last for years long wars).
short story Saddams moronation saved Irans ass
>chem and bio weapons?
pretty useless
the answer? Terrain
Iraq's army under Sadam was only huge and good on paper, in the ground they don't have any good commander becouse it would threaten Sadam's power, so mediocrity reigns in Iraq under all of Sadam's legacy.
Iran was like Israel is today, till the Sha was in power Iran was US best friend and had all the best military toys and training.
The equipment of course didn't last forever but they also had some dignified local production capabilities and a very large population that just went trough a religious revolution, so plenty of stupid young super religius guys which dethroned the Sha because he was not particularly religious.
Ultimately Iran's american tech didn't last very long but long enough to prevent being steamrolled by Iraq and turn the war into an endless trench warfare with mass infantry formations, millions of landmines, chemicals warfare and so on.
Both countries effectively lost decades of wealth in that war.
Also while the US armed Iraq the Israeli armed the Iranians because they didn't want Saddam to become too influential.
>Why was Iran Iraq a stalemate when Iraq had the 4th largest army and had chem and bio weapons?
The Iranians were a more professional military and generally had better quality soldiers. Also Iraqi officers were routinely executed for the most mundane reasons, so the Iraqi military ended up having a lot of inexperienced officers who were afraid to disobey any moronic command the Saddam regime gave them. Also Iran had a much better Air Force.
The iranian military was a complete mess following the revolution, with much of the officer corps haveing to be rebuilt from scratch. See: Battle of Khorramshahr
It was full of Arabs.