Why isn't what possible? If you think that's going to run indefinitely giving you extra power, it won't.
You don't get "more power for longer" because you're already wasting power circulating water back up into the upper tank.
A generator is never going to generate more power than it takes to fill the upper reservoir back up.
If you're still not convinced, waste a bunch of money and build one to convince yourself that you're not getting anything out of this arrangement.
it is possible its just moronic
the ram pump needs water height pressure to work, instead you could move the wheel down and use the potential energy up at that stage.
the extra head will also allow a smaller outlet to the wheel and you will gain your extra run time from that.
if you want free energy how about this idea i came up with:
it takes 2257kj/kg to boil water
it takes 9.8j/kg/m to lift water up
2257000/9.8 = 230306.
if you build a big pipe 231km straight up and insulate it and boil water at the bottom, the steam will rise by itself to the top, condense, and run back down a second pipe (doesn't have to be insulated) the head pressure from the second pipe turns a turbine which powers the boiler. free energy.
he already took that into account, mostly
even more energy has to be put into it (potentially 418.4 more kj/kg) depending on how much it cooled
there's also differences in air pressure, which would change that in some way who knows too much for me to calculate
even if we handwave all those inefficiencies though and whatever other weird effects, the biggest problem for
if you want free energy how about this idea i came up with:
it takes 2257kj/kg to boil water
it takes 9.8j/kg/m to lift water up
2257000/9.8 = 230306.
if you build a big pipe 231km straight up and insulate it and boil water at the bottom, the steam will rise by itself to the top, condense, and run back down a second pipe (doesn't have to be insulated) the head pressure from the second pipe turns a turbine which powers the boiler. free energy.
is that you need to put energy in to condense it as well, and that's equal to the amount of energy put in boiling it
so all that's been made is a very tall, very inefficient, and steamy heat engine between the thermal mass at the bottom and the thermal mass at the top
to figure out free energy (if it were even possible) I'd probably look into blackbody radiation and maybe nonlinear optical properties or nanoscale antennas. Wouldn't necessarily even be "free" energy as far as I'm aware, but if it were possible to directly turn heat (not a differential) into other forms of energy it may as well be for all realistic purposes.
>why isnt it possible
There has to be way more energy in the water source at the inlet of the ram pump than the amount of energy required to pump the water up into the upper reservoir, and there isn't.
You would generate more power just doing this, but even then it would be an extremely small amount.
i saw an estimate of potential lift being, for every foot of drop, you can achieve 7 feet of lift. my intentions with this setup is not limitless energy (thats impossible) but to use the properties of water and stored power in gravity to make something more efficient than just a water wheel.
something else to consider, i also have a creek on my property that has a decent enough flow to provide the power necessary to run the pump. i already plan on building one so i can water my animals in a dry pasture on a hill, so i might play around with it
>for every foot of drop, you can achieve 7 feet of lift
That depends on the volume of water that is dropping, and how fast. In your scenario, the volume and velocity are far too low. Ram pumps work when they're fed by something like river current, where there's a large volume of water moving fairly fast. But being fed by the water coming out of the upper reservoir through the generator, it's going to do nothing.
It's completely possible just sub rain water with the free water i get at my apartment complex. Water is included with the rent so I just constructed a reservoir in my bathroom where I keep the shower on non stop to run a hydroelectric generating station i use to generate power which I sell back to the local utility for a profit ...if only my landlord knew!
Chances are your government is the biggest landlord in whatever shithole you live in including/especially the US. But like any other zigger marxist you only attack you fellow plebs while defending the billionaire corporate/government entities.
Lets do a little math here...
Assuming home is 130 sq. meters and 100% of rainfall is collected, and gutters are 2m above the pump, generator has 50% efficiency (typical for a micro hydro generator).
P: Power in watts
G: Acceleration of gravity in meters per second second (9.8)
F: Flow rate in liters per second
H: Head height in meters (2)
P = G * F * H
Assuming we need 15w to power a single LED lightbulb, and we want to know how much rain would have to be coming down to power it. So, let P = 15 and solve for F.
15 = 9.8 * F * 2 * .5 = ≈3.06
So we need a bit over 3 liters of water a second to power this generator to light a single LED bulb. Given a roof area of 130 sq. meters, that means we need .002 mm per second of rainfall to power it.
.002 mm/sec of rainfall is just below what has been observed in Category 2 hurricanes.
So this would work, as long as there was a Category 2 hurricane sitting over your house.
I don't understand, if you're asking if this is free energy no because the work is being done by the pump and you'll never get more out of the generator than you put into the pump. In a heavy rain you might be able to power the pump but it won't generate any usable surplus electricity.
>I'm gonna divide by zero >you cant >nonono what if I divide by zero THIS WAY >It doesnt work >nonono wait what if I change this and divide by zero THIS NEW way >still dividing by zero >nonono you dont understand there should be a way to divide by zero (a literal paradox)
literally every free energy discussion
people that want to create "free evergy" machines are low IQ that dont understand how reality works
The waste valve, you'll run out of water unless it's raining (and in that case you've simply made a rainwater power generator with extra steps
yes but consider this: more power for longer
Why isn't what possible? If you think that's going to run indefinitely giving you extra power, it won't.
You don't get "more power for longer" because you're already wasting power circulating water back up into the upper tank.
A generator is never going to generate more power than it takes to fill the upper reservoir back up.
If you're still not convinced, waste a bunch of money and build one to convince yourself that you're not getting anything out of this arrangement.
I don't think you know what a ram pump is.
it is possible its just moronic
the ram pump needs water height pressure to work, instead you could move the wheel down and use the potential energy up at that stage.
the extra head will also allow a smaller outlet to the wheel and you will gain your extra run time from that.
if you want free energy how about this idea i came up with:
it takes 2257kj/kg to boil water
it takes 9.8j/kg/m to lift water up
2257000/9.8 = 230306.
if you build a big pipe 231km straight up and insulate it and boil water at the bottom, the steam will rise by itself to the top, condense, and run back down a second pipe (doesn't have to be insulated) the head pressure from the second pipe turns a turbine which powers the boiler. free energy.
"hey man I built a space elevator"
"huh neat, what for?"
"boil water"
you have to expend energy boiling the water
he already took that into account, mostly
even more energy has to be put into it (potentially 418.4 more kj/kg) depending on how much it cooled
there's also differences in air pressure, which would change that in some way who knows too much for me to calculate
even if we handwave all those inefficiencies though and whatever other weird effects, the biggest problem for
is that you need to put energy in to condense it as well, and that's equal to the amount of energy put in boiling it
so all that's been made is a very tall, very inefficient, and steamy heat engine between the thermal mass at the bottom and the thermal mass at the top
to figure out free energy (if it were even possible) I'd probably look into blackbody radiation and maybe nonlinear optical properties or nanoscale antennas. Wouldn't necessarily even be "free" energy as far as I'm aware, but if it were possible to directly turn heat (not a differential) into other forms of energy it may as well be for all realistic purposes.
>it takes 2257kj/kg to boil water
No it doesn't, if your water temp starts out at 20°C you need 336kJ/kg to boil it.
Steam will only rise to a certain height and it will build back pressure which makes the boiling temp of water higher.
In your defense this is probably more cost effective than an electric car and people are stupid enough to buy those.
>why isnt it possible
There has to be way more energy in the water source at the inlet of the ram pump than the amount of energy required to pump the water up into the upper reservoir, and there isn't.
You would generate more power just doing this, but even then it would be an extremely small amount.
i saw an estimate of potential lift being, for every foot of drop, you can achieve 7 feet of lift. my intentions with this setup is not limitless energy (thats impossible) but to use the properties of water and stored power in gravity to make something more efficient than just a water wheel.
something else to consider, i also have a creek on my property that has a decent enough flow to provide the power necessary to run the pump. i already plan on building one so i can water my animals in a dry pasture on a hill, so i might play around with it
>for every foot of drop, you can achieve 7 feet of lift
That depends on the volume of water that is dropping, and how fast. In your scenario, the volume and velocity are far too low. Ram pumps work when they're fed by something like river current, where there's a large volume of water moving fairly fast. But being fed by the water coming out of the upper reservoir through the generator, it's going to do nothing.
It's completely possible just sub rain water with the free water i get at my apartment complex. Water is included with the rent so I just constructed a reservoir in my bathroom where I keep the shower on non stop to run a hydroelectric generating station i use to generate power which I sell back to the local utility for a profit ...if only my landlord knew!
A fellow PLA enjoyer I see. Nice to see one in the wild.
Vidrel
hahaha typical landlord shithead
Chances are your government is the biggest landlord in whatever shithole you live in including/especially the US. But like any other zigger marxist you only attack you fellow plebs while defending the billionaire corporate/government entities.
you are trying to build a perpetual motion/free energy device. it will not and cannot work.
no, i am not. i am just trying to make a rainwater wheel more efficient, if possible. that is why i asked
>rainwater runoff
Lets do a little math here...
Assuming home is 130 sq. meters and 100% of rainfall is collected, and gutters are 2m above the pump, generator has 50% efficiency (typical for a micro hydro generator).
P: Power in watts
G: Acceleration of gravity in meters per second second (9.8)
F: Flow rate in liters per second
H: Head height in meters (2)
P = G * F * H
Assuming we need 15w to power a single LED lightbulb, and we want to know how much rain would have to be coming down to power it. So, let P = 15 and solve for F.
15 = 9.8 * F * 2 * .5 = ≈3.06
So we need a bit over 3 liters of water a second to power this generator to light a single LED bulb. Given a roof area of 130 sq. meters, that means we need .002 mm per second of rainfall to power it.
.002 mm/sec of rainfall is just below what has been observed in Category 2 hurricanes.
So this would work, as long as there was a Category 2 hurricane sitting over your house.
I don't understand, if you're asking if this is free energy no because the work is being done by the pump and you'll never get more out of the generator than you put into the pump. In a heavy rain you might be able to power the pump but it won't generate any usable surplus electricity.
I misread, it's a hydraulic ram no it wouldn't work without new water constantly being added.
>*plays dwarf fortress for 1 hour*
>"guys I have solved the worlds energy problems. Now where's my gear assembly?"
you know we have dams that generate electricity right
>I'm gonna divide by zero
>you cant
>nonono what if I divide by zero THIS WAY
>It doesnt work
>nonono wait what if I change this and divide by zero THIS NEW way
>still dividing by zero
>nonono you dont understand there should be a way to divide by zero (a literal paradox)
literally every free energy discussion
people that want to create "free evergy" machines are low IQ that dont understand how reality works
The laws of thermodynamics prevent it.
But it’s water cooled
You can pump water 4x the height of the initial drop, but it only pumps up 1/6th of what it takes in.
add a second dispositive that uses the waste water.