Why is it that in all combat footage clips I've seen NATO troops always seem better trained and disciplined than Russians troops? Pic rel, apparently they lost only 3 guys while eliminating an entire enemy unit.
https://twitter.com/liveactionleak/status/1651656456691654677?s=46&t=jJW9_7Axrr21ZWnhEaWGPw
yeah
bump
Because they are? We actually value individuals somewhat here. We have to sacrifice troops, thats just the nature of war. But a western human being is treated as such their entire lives. A Russian "human" is treated like a cheaply made trash can its entire life and used accordingly in their tinpot military. The video games where you gun down hundreds of Russians is funny because thats how Russian MoD thinks of its troops. Disposable and worthless. Whereas in the West thats how we view money.
Most western c**ts also give a huge payout to families of those killed in action, and is worth mentioning in every cost analysis scenario involving western soldiers. A Russian that is worth $1000 in rubles to the widow or parents is going to be used more freely than guy from Georgia who’s family has to be given $100,000 and that’s not including the life insurance policies that all active duty members qualify for no questions asked for 30ish cents per paycheck that bumps it to $300-600k.
Yes. That goes back to how Western societies view the value of the lives of its people. When I was a teenager in the early 2010s I thought "man Russia sure does seem epic snd manly, lets look at their military closely" and found the dedovshchina wikipedia page and was hit with the reality that human beings in the West are generally treated as such and that in other cultures that is not the case. My life in the United States is thought to have at least some intrinsic value and I have rights. Not so in Russia or these other second or third world countries. Its easy to get turned around thinking about how gay and annoying certain parts of western society are and forget how comfortable our lives are (on average) compared to some shithole outside the West.
I won't debate comfy, but I think it's more so along the lines that we have the illusion, the facade of rights. The facade that individual soldiers lives are important, I think individual lives are important because fellow soldiers make it so- not because the DoD decided so. Not even because the president, institutions or the education system or church decided so. Without your battle brothers valuing your life in combat, it has no value. You're incredibly lucky if someone far above you truly values your life, in some cases it is true and in more cases than not it is true compared to the Russians and especially the Chinese or North Koreans.
For example I would say that the entirety of desert storm is evidence that Schwarzkopf valued every last coalition soldiers life, down to the smallest and least valuable person there. When you have more friendly fire incidents than enemy inflicted casualties or kills, you essentially did too well. Your men were too good, your men were too on the ball. And yes we had more friendly fire incidents but ultimately it was within reasonable expectations for the operation- it certainly wasn't come silly number that would indicate incompetence.
An infinitesimally small number of coalition soldiers lost their lives to the enemy in desert storm. Anyway, I digress- the is changing. We'll likely never have a guy like that that high up again. It's more ossified and more corrupt now than ever before. If we truly valued the lives of our soldiers we would make different decisions in the acquisition of equipment and that is a fact. It's not perfect but it is probably the best in the world. I would still argue that based on what I've seen the overarching institutions do not create that feeling of being valued and being cared for as an individual, it is the man sitting beside you who would run directly into enemy gunfire to come get you- because you are brothers.
This entire post is garbage, amazing.
Zumwalt Class Destroyer with no missiles (because somehow we built something that not even more money than god could finance)
New IHPS helmets (that have fatal backface deformation)
High speed low drag (doctrinal compensation for below)
Lack of focus on developing more advanced personal protective equipment for soldiers
Forcing the F-35
Absolutely destroying the bodies of soldiers before they ever even enter combat
Rucking 100-150 lbs of poorly prioritized and designed gear
Fielding armored vehicles which cannot stand up to man portable anti tank weapons, relying solely on your MBT
I could go on but these are the big ones off the top of my head, need I continue? It's not the top down decisions which are made with your life in mind, it's the decisions of those further down the chain of command and thats just the truth.
>two ships that were seen as technological dead ends and retired in favor of short-term modernization of the arleigh burke and ticonderoga classes with follow up futuristic ship designs implementing any improvements the zumwalts came up with
>some bullshit about armor
>the fricking F-35 meme as if it's still 2014, they're still G limited and they still can only carry like 2 JDAMs and nothing else with operating costs 5x of an F-16
>the rucking meme
>the "IFV/APC can't handle ATGMs" meme
Actually yes I want some more of your hot takes anon.
Just because you refuse to accept criticisms of something does not simply make them "memes"
Yeah, except they are memes though. The F-35 is an extremely capable aircraft with that particular criticism bandied about by RT in like 2014, the bullshit about rucking is just fricking stupid and the shit about IFVs or whatever being "unable" to handle man portable AT weapons is actual horseshit. Anything that isn't handled by armor or ERA is handled by doctrine.
In reality the US military is vastly more life conscious than it was in 1991. Your point about Schwarzkopf is very telling when Fred Franks has written about being extremely concerned the US would lose an excessive number of men and trying everything in his power to prevent it. Of all people, why do you pick him? I bet it's got something to do with his famous lectures and you having a brain the size of an acorn.
But these are first world problems anon. I agree there are definitely issues and things that need to be addressed. But the beauty of our a society is that we can afford to argue that our death machines arent good enough and our troops deserve better. Our competitors arent even close to our level of concern for the lives of the individual soldier. And thats a wonderful thing imo. Should we continue to demand better? Absolutely. In the interests of military performance as well as out of concern for our troops welfare. Keep in mind that the US is still insanely young as a nation and as a culture. We are currently still forming our first 500 years of history and cultural bedrock. If we decide that England as we sort of kind of know it began in 1066, their first 250 years were pretty rocky and they were still trying to figure out what England even was. We have a head start granted us by modernity and the cultures of the people who have moved here and founded us. But we havent even established our society's true culture as it will be understood in a thousand years like all our western euro allies. Thats worth consideration when it comes to our many instabilities and issues. We are still experiencing growing pains.
what an amazingly shitty post
>Forcing the F-35
da we should have gone with the aerogavin
My point is not a political one neccessarily, but a cultural one anon. In our society, in our culture, our soldiers are not thought of as disposable meat bags. Human lives are generally thought to have some intrinsic value at an individual level. That is not the case in Russia. And in fairness it is not always respected here to the degree I think most agree that it should be. But we have some consensus as a society that there should indeed be a respect upheld. In Vietnam our young men were dying and being maimed and we felt outrage. Sure it hampered the war effort, but the idea of mobilizing a draft and taking young men in their prime and throwing them into the jungles of southeast asia for a hazy objective sparked outrage. In Russia, their young men are being torn from Counter-Strike and DOTA lobbys and their mother's homes and being sent to die pointlessly in Ukraine. And there is no mass outrage on their behalf.
Another example. You have already mentioned insurance payouts. But in the US military if I am wounded, if at all possible I will be casevac'd and will recieve the best medical care they can give me. If I am killed, more than likely my body will be recovered, sometimes at great risk. All because of the value we place on our people. The russians just leave their dead to rot or be buried by the enemy (although their poor military performance is partially to blame for this). Our VA falls short but we have one and there is work being done (too slowly imo) to try and fix the system and give better long term care.
We have a fundamental difference in our sense of humanity. Thats what makes the West what it is. Our understanding of humanity, society, culture etc.
You can't even fathom how much money the US military spends to reduce casualties, and to prevent wounded from dying. Pic related is one of several transport planes specially modified to accommodate a full surgical center in its belly. It has no purpose except to provide emergency care to soldiers during international evacuation flights. One of many parts in the machine that protects US soldiers
>Russian that is worth $1000 in rubles to the widow
They've been giving a sack of potatoes, some fish or something similar. They are not getting anywhere near $1000.
one of the last "gifts" was two tickets to the circus. Not even joking.
What's the point? They already live in a circus.
I'm not sure but I remember seeing in 2009 that the US paid $250,000 for every dead soldier.
>30ish cents per paycheck that bumps it to $300-600k.
Black person that shit is like $30 per check not $.30
>Most western c**ts also give a huge payout to families of those killed in action,
Dead mobik is worth....a couple dozen bags of expired corn chips, apparently.
Contrary to popular belief, you can assign a dollar value to human life. In America, that value is $7-10 million on average.
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/05/11/upshot/virus-price-human-life.html
If you live in a wealthy, free country, you don't have to choose dangerous careers that can end your life. If you live in a poor country, or a country where most of the people are impoverished (keep in mind, most poor people in America are still well-off by a global standard), where you don't have a choice in whether or not you work in a dangerous job, then your life isn't going to be worth very much.
Russians have way too much lead exposure and fetal alcoholism to watch a western military.
>apparently they lost only 3 guys while eliminating an entire enemy unit.
>they lost only 3 guys
lmao what ever makes them feel better.
It's because they are better trained and disciplined. Some Russian troops have no training at all, some soldiers don't even get to shoot their guns more than a few rounds. As long as they can march in a straight line when head monke comes for inspection everything is fine, the rest of the money for training soldiers gets pocketed by the higher officers.
If you haven't been paying attention, Russia ran out of well-trained troops like 9 months ago. They are down to 19-year-old pussies who don't want to fight and 55-year-old alcoholics who are fat and arthritic and have no training.
>pussies who don't want to fight
Why should they want to fight?
They shouldn't
>lose 3 guys against 4 man bmp crew
>one of which tries to surrender before any fighting starts but you murder him
>frick up your footwork on da cqb so ur pointman dies
>cant kill bmp crew so you call in tank to do the job
>get mass cassed by arty
B R A V O
>4 man bmp crew
You're fricking moronic.
Theres a vid of them tracking the bmp they abandoned via drone but whatever you say
Okay then, I guess the fourth guy was the loader. Do you even understand how moronic you sound? You desperately try to make it appear as if those guys were fighting a vehicle crew, while unknowingly providing evidence that they were indeed engaged with infantry.
That's literally what is was though, there's a whole 3 or 4 part video series on it
You know those "tough, masculine soldiers doing flips while throwing axes, breaking bricks with their heads, etc." commercials that China, Nork Korea, and the shambling corpse of the Soviet Union film? Yeah, that's the kind of shit you boast about when you have no real technical skills or abilities. When you've got the Abrams, F-15, Javelin, and HIMARS, you don't need to produce some ubermacho image; the results speak for themselves. Honestly the Marine Corps silent drill team impresses me more than any VDV recrooter video.
When real militaries want to impress people they embed reporters in a unit and have them video their training exercises and how well put together they are.
When shithole countries want to impress people they create an image of a wolf warrior or machismo men who do out of the ordinary flashy shit, or they have a military parade.
> shithole countries
Enough internet for you for today, go to bed please
The average NATO infantryman is better trained than Russian Spetznaz
You need to understand that all of Russia's professional military got Market Garden'd in the first two weeks and are currently sunflower fertilizer.
Because NATO troops are the only ones doing photo ops and Ukranians having to spam videos to make them seem like winning.
Why don't you force article 5? Come on, do it, we want to see your mighty nuclear arsenals and armata lead armored divisions bringing the apocalypse, do it, it will be so much fun.
homosexual did Monke cut your balls or what? Oh "you are next"? Hahaha.
We will be waiting, your friends and families, everyone will burn.
The training that is given to all Western troops is superior to the training that Russia gives their few 'elite' units.
what russian footage have we seen of this conflict that hasn't been taken from a ukranian drone?
Some very early footage when the Russians were barely crossing the border. Mostly about Russians shooting at unsuspecting Ukrainians.
this war is literally the gopro bias
ukranians have cameras, russians dont. we have no idea if russian soldiers are good or bad
I think we have a pretty good idea as to the quality of the average russian soldier even without video footage
The more than 10,000 visually confirmed equipment losses are a helpful clue, for example
what does that have to do with anything
be objective for one second and answer the prompt of the thread instead of your 10000th shitpost for today
>what does that have to do with anything
You claimed in your post that we had no idea if Russians soldiers are good or bad
I am merely pointing out that this is incorrect, we have a very good idea of whether Russian soldiers are good or bad
>ukranians have cameras, russians dont. we have no idea if russian soldiers are good or bad
most UKR gopro footage shows russian soldiers being killed. but I guess there's just no way to infer anything from that fact
>we have no idea if russian soldiers are good or bad
Just like in any other military, there are both highly motivated and experienced individual soldiers and people who just shouldn't be there at all.
Russia just takes it to the extreme. With everything from fricking middle-aged DPR alcoholics that receive near-zero training to SVR Vympel operators.
That said, with the well-known corruption and ineffectiveness of Russian military education, the average Ukrainian soldier is probably better trained than the average Russian.
And without a doubt has higher morale. And unlike Ukraine, Russia doesn't have the entire Western military school of thought helping to shape them into a real modern military.
However, with all this being said. Everyone from ww2 german officers to Finns to the French under Napoleon and Swedes during the 1700s has all praised the normal Russian soldier for his tenacity.
You can find some on youtube and telegram. There is one video of them clearing a trench where there is a one v one and the Russian wins despite doing everything like a moronic Chicago gangbanger (one handed blind spraying and praying with his AK)
There's a fair bit, it just doesn't get posted to /k/ because there's a large pro ukraine bias (and rightly so). There's a Russian pilot's pov of being shot down at Hostomel which was pretty fricking metal.
Why the frick are you reposting a Twitter post here, even more from some homosexual that steal videos on Youtube moron
3 guys? On the full video on YT there is like 30 of them fighting a way smaller group of Russians they they claimed were SF's lol.
Loads of the Ukies also got fricked up on that same day by artillery.
it's eight guys, fighting a completely unknown number of russians, could be 2, could be 12. They illustrate why clearing a building is dumb and limited penetration breaching is correct, while still being more professional and more highly skilled than their russian counterparts, despite being literal who volunteers, and killing what seems to be all of the defenders, before themselves getting wiped out by artillery. 100% casualties/ 25% KIA. They did claim the russians were SF, who the frick knows, the russians were reduced to paste by a ukie tank opening the building up like goatse after the artillery hit outside, wasting the protag's. War is hell.
Those guys got obliterated by armor when they were bringing the dead Russians out. No one needed to die at all, but one of the burgers either panicked or was a nut and shot one of the surrendering armor guys in the house.
all dem blue bands, helmets complete blue hyper-communicative gays talking about every stone they see, tight foreskin
>NATO professionals
They are. Basic and infantry school are longer even in the US than they are in Russia, and they spend time actually training instead of being beaten by the other conscripts.
>Why is it that in all combat footage clips I've seen NATO troops
These are not NATO troops. There aren't any NATO troops yet.