Is hesco fortification of no worth in full scale wars, as the one between Ukraine and Russia?
Are they effective only against irregular armies?
Why don't we see hesco used in Ukraine
Is hesco fortification of no worth in full scale wars, as the one between Ukraine and Russia?
Are they effective only against irregular armies?
frick would you need a above ground fortification in an artillery war. there's a reason why they moved into trenches
Hell when they were making the Polygonal forts like Douaumont they were burying them in reinforced concrete.
Using long barriers of hesco in front of trenches to make it difficult for trenches to come close and attack
it would also restrict your line of fire?
Also your visibility and it also serves as a giant "meatbags here" indicator. Great idea overall.
At this point, any city that is not occupied indicates that.
it is easier to make a loose dirt berm than to take the time to build up a special fortifiction.
HESCO were used in the desert because the desert sand has a very weak regidity and it is faster and easier to just use HESCOs than to cut the earth.
>more infographics to follow
for the purpose of construction there are three types of soil:
Clay, Sand, and Loam. size doesn't matter as at this scale because it is the chemical properties that effect the soil far more than the particle size.
>Clay, generally describes a hydrophilic soil that will absorb a lot of water and become very hard when properly dried out. depending on the content of additional soil types it can cause it to swell and become thick slippery mud or a type of quick-sand.
>Sand, generally described as magnetically neutral to water. it is best to think of it as a pile of very tiny rocks. very hard to compact as it has almost no chemical reactivity and instead uses mechanical advantage. desert sand tends to be a very poor building material because it is usually a smooth sphere with nothing to latch on to.
>Loam or Silt, magnetically repels water. this will make it very slick and slippery but it will dry relatively fast and become dry and sand like. normally has a lot of organic material present in the soil (and thus is an indicator of possible oil reserves).
Ukraine has a lot of Loam and thus is the worst kind of soil to build with when wet and damp. most of the steppe is a type of loam.
here is a chart that describes the different types of soil. I don't really like the chart as I find it to be incongruent to on the ground experience, but it isn't wrong about what it is classifying as it is a difference of perspective.
Sandy Loam is the ideal plant growth medium thanks to aeration properties -- a single diget amount of organic matter is required, and potting soil for home gardening has shifted since the 70s from mostly sand to now functionally compost-- and it's by design, so your shit gets root rot for lack of drainage and invasive bacteria/bad fungus from being both sopping wet and inadequate drainage/aeration resulting therefrom.
>how does this affect my earth works?
Miniature swale which encourages water to collect well in front of your trench, and a shallow slope on the rear side as well. Vegetation will help anchor all of it (compost ration waste near dug outs/firing positions preferentially).
>wtf do aquariums have to do with my trenchworks?
Standing water no bueno. Where possible, cooking fire charcoal at the bottom of your footpath drainage will facilitate filtration while sequestering nutrients, which will accrue to plant/microbiome life securing the soil in situ. If the plenum material above is available (cat box clay) go with that, otherwise rock's/sand to approximate sandy loam + whatever charcoal you can produce. Healthy living soil will hold, dead and rotting soil will slough off faster.
the video on this thread should explain why knowing your dirt is important. they are plowing strait though that wonderful farm-able Ukrainian loam.
CLAY GANG
if you want a reference for what I mean by swelling clay here is a map
in construction there are a few types of clay we normally rate by color as it indicates content.
>White clay
a good building clay, it will compact very hard.
>Red clay
a white clay with iron in it. sometimes called Georgia-red clay or Alabama clay.
>Brown clay
a middling grade clay that is worse than white or red clay
>Black clay
a clay with a lot of organic material in it, also called a "fat" clay because it will swell a lot.
>Blue clay
a white clay with pockets of organic material, indicates oil is near by. is normally surrounded by black clay.
just as a hint, the red streaks on the map coincide with the oil fields in the US as the admixture of organic material makes them horrible to build in.
clay
>a clay with a lot of organic material in it, also called a "fat" clay because it will swell a lot.
Confirmed that America is rightfully black clay and whites must leave and stop being fat
>the blue in the flag represents blue clay which is a reference to our constant vigilance of finding oil.
>the red is for the red clay which reminds us of blood, legends say it is stained red with the iron of all the redcoats we slaughtered.
>and white stands for white clay, which stands for umm... this sounds like a poland ball question.
just for the uninitiated a A type soil means basically it is a very hard soil that is easy to build in. a C type soil is a soil that basically has no rigidity at all. a B type soil is halfway in-between A and C or is a A soil that has been dug out and lost it's compaction. there are some kinds of soil that are rated as "stable" but they are rare and are normally some kind of shale or loose compacted limestone.
Based, I love info like this
because trenches collapse, fill with water, have less protection potential.
Trench protects the dug area. Hescos protect anything on the other side of the HESCOs
unless a round hits directly ontop of a hesco, which is as likely as a direct hit on a trench, however, this can be mitigated with... more hescos
Hesco is just overpriced scam. Basically you can achieve similar results with good old wooden planks, logs and sandbags.
yeah, just like pallets, you just need 20 mobiks to shift shit for 12 hours
>Basically you can achieve similar results with good old wooden planks, logs and sandbags.
Yeah but good luck taking a couple of engineers in loaders and erecting a defensible position with planks, logs, and sandbags. The point is to create the maximum defensible position in the least amount of time. They were also popular in Iraq/Afghan because (if you haven't noticed) those countries are at a "significant deficit" where wood is concerned. Sand? Dirt? Got that for miles and miles and miles.
They were building compact FOBs, not 10s of miles of trenches
moron
>Lays 100m wall in seconds ready to be backfilled
Where is your god now mobik
From what I see those come in standardized containers too, for extra logistics bonus?
Yes fren.
?si=8XOar7hcvWtAOdxK
Warcrime!
this would probably be wildly unlikely, but how feasible would it to make these out of kevlar, or some other armored material? Obviously a layer of kevlar won't stop rifle fire, but 2 layers spaced ~6 feet might.
Way to not understand that a hesco is a superior sandbag with corners
I thought they were using them?
https://twitter.com/raging545/status/562572234662088704
it's used, just not on the frontlines
things sticking out of the ground have tendency to attract artillery fire - when you have tens of thousands of heavy artillery shells flying around its not the best idea to be around those tbh
the cost of an artillery round is more than the total cost of setting up a hesco and the hesco itself.
Shooting at a HESCO would be some russian tier moronation and then the HESCO would still do its job: being a cheap, huge, explosive-eating device
because it's useless moron
>useless
>staple tech of GWOT and Kosovo
the previous government had a bad relationship with hesco, the company. something about corruption.
the most i've personally seen in any one place have all been locations set up by nato staff. one particular trial area created for a UAV & UGV event comes to mind.
some are also in use along the dnieper. the flood trashed some and sent them downriver. the current offensive operations in the vicinity of oleshky might be a good moment for them, if the decision is made to expand the bridgehead.
Hesco forts worked in the sandbox because the heaviest "artillery" sandBlack folk had access to were mortars and single grads or homemade rockets fired from improvised launchers.
HESCO is for long term defensive positions like the FOBs you see in counter-insurgency conflicts where there is no front line. In actual wars (not the COIN ops that the media called wars) there are front lines that move back and forth and objective is to capture ground and then move forward more.
>I don't understand how soil compaction works
You will fill a greater volume of hesco barriers than the size of the hole you dig.
>build gay little compound on the front
>artillery shell hits
>rethink and start digging trenches
>artillery shell hits trench
>soil liquification
>buried alive
>artillery shell hits HESCO directly
>almost completely destroyed
>good thing its a fricking MINECRAFT DIRT BLOCK and can be replaced in like 30 min with your uncles dozer
No it's double hole + wall = way more protection not zero you absolute fricking morons.
>Cohort !!pC/0XsRmOOP
10/25/23(Wed)11:20:32 No.59955739
#
>>hurr durr just half fill the box so you have more boxes
>Yeah moron numbers don't get bigger just because you make it a decimal. -1 + 1 still equals zero and having zero means you don't have shit.
lmao tripgay left his trip on and baleeted it nice try
You might be one of the most moronic people on this board.
I still don't get it why won't work. If you build dozens of kilometric forts, 2 meter dig in front of it, 4 meter high hesco. Fortify evry position and city.
>just half fill the box so you have more boxes
Just gas up the the tank to half full so you can have more vehicles in the attack
t. Russki Generalski, Feb. 23 2022
back when a non-entrenched, non-mobile position WASN'T a death sentence, Ukies used thick-ass, pre-formed, 3-foot-thick slabs of concrete to make cyclopean guard posts and road blocks. Russians also used pre-formed concrete....septic tanks. Both sides stopped as such visible fortifications fail at certain steps of the survivability onion.
>are they effective only against irregular armies
hescos are effective for their purpose and convenient, but concrete is better, and a trench is better still in every way for protection.
Those guard huts are still around in cities and behind the front.
why don't they put things over trenches to protect trenches?
Why not raise a flag pole over your trench to be patriotic?
because it will just turn into shrapnel
>|-1 - 1| = 2
Guess you never got very far in math lmao.
#1. how do you know they aren't?
#2. The soil is more suitable for trenches.
#3. It's not the US with our limitless manpower and budget.
Put your trip back on, Cohort.
>half fill the boxes
To completely fill a 3'x3'x3' hesco with loose earth, you will dig a hole less that size in packed earth.
>so fricking stupid he doesn't know absolute value
>it's a tripgay
sasuga
Can you just go back to competing with Ash for the worst poster on /arg/?
So, you get trench+wall.
I don't see the problem.
Displacement?
>suddenly talking about boats
We have boats that sail through water.
Can we make boats that sail through land?
>Because its impossible to build walls by digging.
>dirt=0
>dig dirt=-1
I think you have -1 walls, anon.
Idk though, I'm just trying to copy math-anon's homework.
The important thing is to dig all the way to bedrock, that way filthy blues can't tunnel under you
Based 2009 - 2010 old gay. Those blues will burn in hell. That game was based as hell before normals ruined it.
what gaem?
Ace of spades
space of aids
>Ace of spades
Openspades is an updated remake but its still dead. There is an online io game thats similar but i miss all the openspades servers with custom maps
It's funny how quickly the map degrades into a rendition of pipes screensaver
Exactly. Its not fricking hard.
Only if you keep digging infinitely in both directions or else you've just made 3 trenches. Nice try maybe next time.
They only work against farmers.
>its impossible to build walls by digging
Now you have a wall AND a trench
Checkmate atheist
Not possible in 3 dimensions anyways.
put saddam standing to uphold the structure
holy frick
>Saddam shrugged
Kek. Reminds me of picrel.
Saddam Khussip?
probably way more cost effective inna middle east (inna desert) because so much sand and dry dirt for filler just lying around everywhere for free
the planet is made out if dirt.
heres the cycle of operation:
1. Place box made of cloth and wire basket
2. Hook multiple together
3.A. Collect dirt, using a dozer, simply by scraping a wide open area, filling the bucket, and drive over and dump it in the Hesco
3.B. If youve done ANY earthworks (ie road grading) you porbably have dirt mounds laying around.
3.C. Go to any rear area, full a dump drunk (which is a common piece of equipment in poor, industrialized Ukr) and drive it right up to the hescos and have a backhoe fill the hescos
4. Fill HEScos
5. Profit: obstruct flat traj fire, absorb blastfront and shrapnel, create vehicle obstacles, fortify structures and civilian shelters,
Cost: Canvas, wire, dirt, gasoline
Dig a hole, and export the dirt to new spot all of several feet away you frickin silly heads XD
Yeah okay plot that on a graph without changing the values of dirt taken from the ground and dirt appearing next to you.
en'she chem protivotankovykh yezhey
I saw several checkpoints and roadblocks set up in Kyiv in the first weeks of the war, but there were much fewer of them than anti-tank hedgehogs.
Is this the most moronic thread on /k/?
Sadly, no.
Becoss hesco is gucci fortifications for wealthy nations in an uncontested zone, its not for white Black folks in Snowgeria
Concertainers are good for blocking off the inside walls of forts so a mortar strike to the middle won't kill everyone against the wall.
>tell that to Sadam any time the slant oil drilling he accused Kuwait of doing is brought up
The whole reason drilling works is because its just removing material from the ground moron. Negative value for hole negative value for oil so its not like you are left with nothing.
Real question is why don't people build their house with this shit? Just put together a nice block castle and coat the outside in concrete.
maybe not hescos cause their dirt but im 100% going to build my house out of these.
I wonder how their earthquake performance is.
Hesco barriers aren't very good as a sub-grade structure. you are basically asking me to use geo-grid or geo-fabric. the closest tool in construction to a hesco that is a permanent structure is a rock basket or gabion rock. it is a really lazy and expensive way to make a rock barreir. it would be better to make a brick wall.
We should start an Earthworks General.
Soils, Trenches, berms, HESCOs, modern concrete prefabs and pours in combat environments., general military engineering,
Trenching equipment, other engineering equipment.
All engis welcome.
consult PrepHole
Because shells are generally coming at a shallow angle? Say 30 degree, so 1m wide trench is a 30cm target profile for a 152mm shell, so chance of it hitting the trench directly and actually killing the mobik inside is say 30x. Add 1m HESCO, congratulations, your target profile is now 100x - you did a bunch of work to basically triple the chances of a direct hit (and no, HESCO cube won't save you from 152mm shell, not to mention the shell fired at field fortifications will have a slightly delayed fuse).
im moronic can you draw you "30x" and "100x" in paint so i can have a visual
Basically, HESKOs in a modern war are moronic for the same reason castles are moronic. No one uses them except to bully natives whose most powerful weapon is 82mm mortar with three shells
Castles arent moronic, theyre good defensive positions, and were often held as strongpoints in WW2 and really throughout modern warfare, but they arent proper campaign fortifications anymore. That spoil heap on the other hand..
reinforced fortifications are generally disregarded as apart of modern doctrine with an emphasis on impediment features and Temporary fortifications. most real military bases are just a plot of land surrounded by cameras, some knee high walls, and a barbwire fence.
What if hesco are just giant jiffy pots and we can grow weed in them?
they only kind of weed that will grow in those are the daisies you will be pushing.
How about I push the daisies up your FAT ASS?
sounds like you need to stop smoking so much weed.
fill them with Terra Preta and grow coca, from what you can extract cocaine.
I've read a paper about this, scientist consider the overgrowth on hesco a vector for disease as it attracts critter and bugs. Most likely they sprayed poison to prevent any growth as most army base kept their hesco barren.
Ive only saw one blogpost about dude spent his time growing tomato in afghan.
They are the gap between hand dug fighting positions to shipped in prefabs, overlapping a little with trenches, being able to elevate and wall in large area.
ground cover mostly isn't a problem. There are some weed plants that grow in certain places that could present a problem as they can cause skin and eye irritation.
>Is hesco fortification of no worth in full scale wars, as the one between Ukraine and Russia?
Because its an obvious target for a standard FAB-500 from a SU-24/25/34. Or an artillery bombardment. How well does one of these towers stand up to a direct hit from a 122/152/203 mm HE shell?
Nobody has said the main reason, which is hesco is great when you have a shitload of equipment, high logistic capacity, and limited manpower but want to set up fortifications. In Ukraine both sides have exactly the opposite so it makes more sense to just dig.