Why doesn't Wikipedia show who won Bakhmut?

Why doesn't Wikipedia show who won Bakhmut?

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  1. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Because it's an ongoing battle?

  2. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    A common example of the template utilized for individual battles via Aleppo.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Gary Johnson

      >Aleppo
      What is Aleppo?

  3. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Probably because there's still battles around it and Russia never consolidated enough on the rubble heap to expand outside

  4. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    spacetime singularity, ukraine won, ukraine lost, pussia won, pussia lost, battle is still ongoing, battle never happened.

  5. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Because the town is still contested. People still don't realize that Prigo essentially lied to everybody to save face and give himself an excuse to get out of that meatgrinder?

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      It's still contested rasheed. Ukranian troops are on the outskirts and they have full fire control over the city.

      NTA but why isn't it still 'ongoing' then?
      They could say 'pyrrhic pussian victory' or something or add a note saying this is still contested

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Russians couldn't take it all then dug in. Every so often they send out meat waves. It's still happening but Russians ran out of man power to push there. They have had around 70,000 kia direct and 30 deaths indirect due to hanta, aids, tuberculosis and hepatitis outbreaks this winter on the line. It was 5-1 kd ratio for Ukraine, now with the meat waves single filing in at times it's 7-1 total.

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          So the result in wikipedia cannot yet be computed?

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            What? It's an ongoing battle.

            • 3 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              I mean they put an end date there, I agree it's still ongoing so why did they put thet date? Just because Piggy raised a flag for 5 minutes in some random area of the city?

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                The Russians ran out of bodies and called it. They still push in trickles but that's it. It's just two trench lines facing each other

  6. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    It's still contested rasheed. Ukranian troops are on the outskirts and they have full fire control over the city.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Because the town is still contested. People still don't realize that Prigo essentially lied to everybody to save face and give himself an excuse to get out of that meatgrinder?

      Because it's an ongoing battle?

      Ukrainian positions are static at 5km from Bakhmut.
      By comparrison Russian positions are static at 5km from Kherson.

      Is the battle for Kherson still an ongoing battle? The possibility of either side reclaiming either city in these two cases is so remote as to be a joke, but I guess theres still residual hopium supplies from the attempts at retaking Bakhmut back in sumer 23'. Seems kind of pathetic to squabble like this. Take the L and move on.

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        >Is the battle for Kherson still an ongoing battle?
        Yes, and importantly one of Europe's largest rivers (with no intact crossings) is between the Russians and Kherson. Otherwise people would probably consider that front active

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          With the amount of ordenance Russia continues to drop on kherson city is it not still active by the definition anons were using above re fire control?
          Bakhmut was just heavilt heavily politicised by both sides. Ukraine made some political blunders by flip flopping between its strategic importance but Id say its a pretty obvious Rusaian victory. Just like how the battle for Kherson was a pretty obvious Ukrainian victory.

          Im getting heavy flashbacks to the cope of Mariupol that it was contested because 5 guys were living in a cumbunker to the south.

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            There's still active fighting going on around Bakhmut's flanks. Meanwhile, nobody is under any delusion Russia is capable of re-invading Kherson city, especially with Ukraine establishing bridgeheads on the Russian side of the river.

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            It's still ongoing. They have lost 100 k deaths killed in action and indirect trench conditions. Ukrainians have lost 14k total. Both sides control pieces. It's just a part of the trench line.

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        There's isn't a 2 mile wide river in between Ukranian postions in the outskirts of Bahkmut and the rest of Bahkmut.

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          There may as well be because as demonstrated by failed attempts last summer to push back into Bakhmut Russia has 6 gorillion mines between the Ukrainian positions and Bakhmut propper.

          Infact, a river ceossing to Kherson is demonstrably more feasible than a push to Bakhmut. So who won Kherson?

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            >Infact, a river ceossing to Kherson is demonstrably more feasible than a push to Bakhmut

            That's some pretty big fricking delusion right there. Russia didn't have proper amphibious capability even in the heyday of the 3 day SMO.

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          Is it still 2 miles wide even after the dam break?

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Battle outcomes on Wikipedia are based on conclusions from the involved parties. Both Ukraine and Russia agree that Kherson was a Russian loss.

        For Bakhmut, the sticking point is that while the Russians claim victory for occupying (most of) the town, Ukraine maintains it was a victory for them due to the disproportionate losses they inflicted on the Russians. And still Bakhmut is still an active front, there's not really any point trying to claim a winner right now.

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          >(most of)
          Its the entire town anon. Check deepstate.
          Russian positions firmly encapsulate the entire city of Bakhmut.
          I dont understand the reluctance to just accept the result of the battle. Any subsequent battle can then be called the 2nd battle of Bakhmut if Ukraine ever challenges Russian control of the city.

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            This is really desperate. What did the Ukrainians blow up now

            • 3 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              Well, EU just voted for €50B more assistance to Ukraine, despite lolban. Might be a combo of that and aftershocks of the strikes in Crimea a day or two ago.

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                It's obviously the sinking of the Ivanovets last night

                [...]

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            >Check deepstate.
            >Pweeees pweeeeees start using vatniks source so my cope will work
            No vatnik you must suffer

            • 3 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              God damn you are moronic. Deepstate is Ukie source. One of the most reliable even.

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >it was hohol map
                lol lmao even

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                You're moronic anon, its literally a ukrainian based map hosted by and operated by ukrainians in ukraine. It literally is a hohol map.

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Don't even bother. It literally doesn't matter to them that its the most reliable map and its also Ukrainian. If it shows something that goes against their narrative, its a Kremlin source. Honest discussion is impossible

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >Don't even botherACK
                You think you r not obvious that you r samegayging?

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            Again, read the damn discussion page. Neither side has admitted defeat in Bakhmut so it's still technically ongoing.

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            But i thought the truth the west was trying to suppress was on intel slava z

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        By your "logic", battle of avdiivka ended 10 years ago and Ukraine already won.

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Until the battle is over there isn't a conclusion, and it might one end in a period of domination. 1st battle. 2nd battle etc

        think Stalingrad, Germany had won besides a few building next to the river yet.....

  7. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    I can't speak for the Wikipedia moderators but tell me anon, what does it mean to "win" a battle? Is it simply about lines of control? Russia ended up controlling a few more square kilometers of mine infested smoking ruins, while losing SIGNIFICANTLY more military assets than Ukraine did

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      https://i.imgur.com/lBY6BYH.png

      You can click on talk or history to see revisions and discussions, it also has extended protection.
      My guess is editors are in a battle themselves so the article will be frozen until they can come to a decision.

      A basic check of the history and the talk page shows there was an edit war going on so the editors just locked the page until something more conclusive comes along.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >what does it mean to "win" a battle? Is it simply about lines of control?
      Yeah, pretty much. That's the goal of the battle, is it not? A pyrrhic victory is still a victory.

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        I would say russian tactical victory, ukrainian strategic victory.
        The Russians took the territory, but the ukrainians bled them for so long.

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        >That's the goal of the battle, is it not?
        The stated goal is to free the poor innocent civilians (who's homes you reduced to roofless gay BJ boxes) and remove le nazis (who ended up killing Russians 6 to 1)

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          But the actual goal is to take ground.

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        >A pyrrhic victory is still a victory.
        No you fricking moron, the point of a phyrric victory is that it cost so much that it may as well be a loss. If you force an enemy to retreat from an area at the cost of your fighting capability in the region, that's a phyrric victory - sure, you got the area, but your shit is spent, and you're essentially a nonthreat compared to what an actual victory would bring.
        If a hundred men on each side clash, and one side retreats with 50 survivors whilst the other stands with 10 - that's a phyrric victory, because those 10 are a non threat and the 50 get to regroup and refocus.
        A phyrric victory is not a victory, it is a sweetened defeat.

  8. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    You can click on talk or history to see revisions and discussions, it also has extended protection.
    My guess is editors are in a battle themselves so the article will be frozen until they can come to a decision.

  9. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >Why doesn't Wikipedia show who won Bakhmut?
    Because it was such a shit show that people are still trying to erase Prigozhin from their collective memory

  10. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Because it’s not a victory until you can hold onto the territory uncontested, which neither side can do at the moment.

  11. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    I know this is hard for you Vatniks to believe, but just because you take a town doesn't necessarily mean you've automatically won the battle. Some examples

    >Fredericksburg, 1862 - Union troops capture the town in a matter of hours, but Confederate defense buys time for the Army of Northern Virginia to regroup on the ridges and defeat subsequent attacks
    >Gettysburg, 1863 - Confederate troops straight-up chase the Union Army into and through the town and they are unable to put up any kind of effective defense, but the delay allows them to regroup on the high ground outside of town and the ensuing two days are a complete disaster for the Confederate Army
    >Stalingrad, 1942 - Over a series of months, German troops from the 6th Army manage to capture virtually the entire city except for a few blocks along the waterfront and at one, point, even the famously stoic General Chuikov practically had a mental breakdown and declared all was lost. German success turns out to be utterly meaningless however because all their efforts to capture the city did was overextend themselves and leave them vulnerable to an attack in the rear, resulting in the encirclement and virtual annihilation of the 6th Army.
    >Rzhev, 1943 - Soviet troops finally manage to capture the ruins of the city after months of bitter fighting, only to have completely failed in their goal of destroying the salient because German troops evacuated the entire area in good order, preventing the Soviets from following up their success at Stalingrad for many more months

  12. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous
    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Obligatory tactical analysis

      Russians couldn't take it all then dug in. Every so often they send out meat waves. It's still happening but Russians ran out of man power to push there. They have had around 70,000 kia direct and 30 deaths indirect due to hanta, aids, tuberculosis and hepatitis outbreaks this winter on the line. It was 5-1 kd ratio for Ukraine, now with the meat waves single filing in at times it's 7-1 total.

      I'm starting to suspect Russian dead may have already surpassed 400,000. No one seems to bother counting how many they lose to illness or succumbing to wounds well after the fact.

      Remember, Ukrainian kill estimates only work off the number of Russians they kill in battle, anyone who gets his leg blown off in a drone drop, gets evacuated back to a hospital in Belgorod and then succumbs to infection afterward, isn't getting counted as a "kill" by the Ukrainians.

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        350 k kia direct confirmed from everyone but Russians at least. Indirect 200 250 k from ransoms like NATO, USA, UK, pole, aus, korea

  13. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >pic
    can we not edit a cat in there ?

  14. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    [...]

    A Corvette

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      AND THERE IT IS!
      Russia lost another fricking boat to a country with no navy and have to cope by trying to claim they got Bahkmut again. It's fricking amazing how predictable this shit is.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      This is a false flag, its actually an american corvette off yemen. Look at the pixels it's been edited.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      it was promoted to submarine just like the plan says, follow the plan comrade

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      This is so kino. And to think Russia can’t even stop Ukraine from selling grain lol.

  15. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >Why yes i fought in the ukriane war, i fought online about whether a wikipedia article of a battle was correct.

  16. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Looks like it got edited out four days ago.
    Maybe you should ask the talk page instead of us.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      The Russians had a capital ship get blown up again. He's trying to redefine a cities boundaries by 300-400 meters to claim Russian won bakhumt. It's amusing

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        >Tarantul-class
        >capital ship
        You don't belong on this board anon. Even reddit knows more about warships than this.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Alexiscoutinho#November_2023
      Looks like he's on a crusade to remove things that cite the Russian mod, and has a particular interest in Indian healthcare.

  17. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    [...]

    They maintain their objective was to inflict disproportionate losses on the Russians, which they did.

    Read the damn discussion page. Not sure why you’re picking a fight here instead of against the wikipedia editors.

  18. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    [...]

    Prigo, you're supposed to be dead. Go back to whatever shithole you got isekaied to.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      prigo rants were actually entertaining compared to that shitskin's whining

  19. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    [...]

    Nobody gives a shit about your crusade against Wikipedia editors. It’s clear this thread is just an excuse to bask in the painfully expired glory of Bakhmut because Russia’s second great winter offensive fell flat on its face again.

  20. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    [...]

    >Ukraine stops existing entirely in the near future
    Two more weeks, right?

  21. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    [...]

    You've had multiple people explain to you that

    A. You can take a town and still have it contested because the enemy still hasn't yielded you the field and you cannot make use of it (the whole point of attacking Bakhmut in the first place was its roads).

    B. You can take a town and still lose the battle outside of it.

    [...]

    >They are waiting till winter ends to do the big push

    Is no one gonna tell this guy?

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Goddam, how many pictures did that little b***h take?

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        A lot, and she's absolutely adorable in every single one of them.

        Should have posted the compilation of Russians fricking their skulls with their own bullets.

        I don't know about you but I consider a grenade going off next to your head to be an infinitely worse skullfricking. I mean just look at that homie, the front half of his skull has basically collapsed lol

  22. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    [...]

    Nobody tell him about Kyiv, Kherson, and Kharkiv.

  23. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    [...]

    lmfao, feeding tens of thousands of conscripts into the meat grinder for some post industrial villages is skullfricking in your mind?

  24. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    [...]

    >Skullfricked you in Mariupol
    >Skullfricked you in Soledar
    >Skullfricked you in Lysychansk
    >Skullfricked you in Pisky
    >Skullfricked you in Bakhmut
    >Skullfricked you in Marinka
    >Currently skullfricking you in Avdeevka
    >I might have missed a few but you get the idea

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Should have posted the compilation of Russians fricking their skulls with their own bullets.

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        u mean GLORIUS PUSSIAN KILLSTREAK???

  25. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    [...]

    Likely because he was a pajeet that got banned for spamming.

  26. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    [...]

    >They are waiting till winter ends to do the big push
    >literally two more weeks posting
    lemao

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      You should post more of those “puccians still haven’t avdiivka after 6 gorrillion losses xaxaxa” threads while you still have time

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        >puccians still haven’t avdiivka after 6 gorrillion losses xaxaxa
        may I see it?

  27. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    [...]

    >wagner flag
    how do you cope with knowing the only mildly competent arm of the russian military was deleted by monke for no reason

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >for no reason
      I think we all know the reason tho

  28. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    [...]

    >dear moderators sirs (yes I'm going to call you that from now on) can you please consider to delete this very VERY harming user post commments please can you readeam them please? Thank you
    Top zozzle

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      This guy is still my favorite meme to come from this war.

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        >AND A LITTLE BIT OF CHICKEN FRIED

  29. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    [...]

    >please heeelp me mods aaaaAACK

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >untested modem weaponry being used in Ukraine
      God, I wish
      Imagine the kino of F-22s absolutely dabbing on Su-57s while the F-35 rapes the rest of their Air Force and the B-21 skullfricks their air defenses, all before US supersoldiers wearing real life MJOLNIR rip T-14s apart with their bare hands and take on entire companies single-handedly

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Oh, and it turns out that the SDI/Star Wars is not only real, but we had it the whole time, so when Putin inevitably tries to go for nooks, they all get shot down over Russian airspace

  30. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    [...]

    >mods?

    lol can't even handle bant on the internet

  31. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    [...]

    >posting a wagner flag over Bakhmut in a Bakhmut thread is deleted and banned.

    guys that put that flag there suffered far worse - show some fricking respect you vile zigger.

  32. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    We won't know who won, or how big a victory or defeat it was, until the war is over and historians have had 5-10 years to gather and argue over the data.

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