Because the town is still contested. People still don't realize that Prigo essentially lied to everybody to save face and give himself an excuse to get out of that meatgrinder?
Russians couldn't take it all then dug in. Every so often they send out meat waves. It's still happening but Russians ran out of man power to push there. They have had around 70,000 kia direct and 30 deaths indirect due to hanta, aids, tuberculosis and hepatitis outbreaks this winter on the line. It was 5-1 kd ratio for Ukraine, now with the meat waves single filing in at times it's 7-1 total.
I mean they put an end date there, I agree it's still ongoing so why did they put thet date? Just because Piggy raised a flag for 5 minutes in some random area of the city?
3 months ago
Anonymous
The Russians ran out of bodies and called it. They still push in trickles but that's it. It's just two trench lines facing each other
Because the town is still contested. People still don't realize that Prigo essentially lied to everybody to save face and give himself an excuse to get out of that meatgrinder?
Because it's an ongoing battle?
Ukrainian positions are static at 5km from Bakhmut.
By comparrison Russian positions are static at 5km from Kherson.
Is the battle for Kherson still an ongoing battle? The possibility of either side reclaiming either city in these two cases is so remote as to be a joke, but I guess theres still residual hopium supplies from the attempts at retaking Bakhmut back in sumer 23'. Seems kind of pathetic to squabble like this. Take the L and move on.
>Is the battle for Kherson still an ongoing battle?
Yes, and importantly one of Europe's largest rivers (with no intact crossings) is between the Russians and Kherson. Otherwise people would probably consider that front active
With the amount of ordenance Russia continues to drop on kherson city is it not still active by the definition anons were using above re fire control?
Bakhmut was just heavilt heavily politicised by both sides. Ukraine made some political blunders by flip flopping between its strategic importance but Id say its a pretty obvious Rusaian victory. Just like how the battle for Kherson was a pretty obvious Ukrainian victory.
Im getting heavy flashbacks to the cope of Mariupol that it was contested because 5 guys were living in a cumbunker to the south.
There's still active fighting going on around Bakhmut's flanks. Meanwhile, nobody is under any delusion Russia is capable of re-invading Kherson city, especially with Ukraine establishing bridgeheads on the Russian side of the river.
It's still ongoing. They have lost 100 k deaths killed in action and indirect trench conditions. Ukrainians have lost 14k total. Both sides control pieces. It's just a part of the trench line.
There may as well be because as demonstrated by failed attempts last summer to push back into Bakhmut Russia has 6 gorillion mines between the Ukrainian positions and Bakhmut propper.
Infact, a river ceossing to Kherson is demonstrably more feasible than a push to Bakhmut. So who won Kherson?
Battle outcomes on Wikipedia are based on conclusions from the involved parties. Both Ukraine and Russia agree that Kherson was a Russian loss.
For Bakhmut, the sticking point is that while the Russians claim victory for occupying (most of) the town, Ukraine maintains it was a victory for them due to the disproportionate losses they inflicted on the Russians. And still Bakhmut is still an active front, there's not really any point trying to claim a winner right now.
>(most of)
Its the entire town anon. Check deepstate.
Russian positions firmly encapsulate the entire city of Bakhmut.
I dont understand the reluctance to just accept the result of the battle. Any subsequent battle can then be called the 2nd battle of Bakhmut if Ukraine ever challenges Russian control of the city.
Well, EU just voted for €50B more assistance to Ukraine, despite lolban. Might be a combo of that and aftershocks of the strikes in Crimea a day or two ago.
3 months ago
Anonymous
It's obviously the sinking of the Ivanovets last night
God damn you are moronic. Deepstate is Ukie source. One of the most reliable even.
3 months ago
Anonymous
>it was hohol map
lol lmao even
3 months ago
Anonymous
You're moronic anon, its literally a ukrainian based map hosted by and operated by ukrainians in ukraine. It literally is a hohol map.
3 months ago
Anonymous
Don't even bother. It literally doesn't matter to them that its the most reliable map and its also Ukrainian. If it shows something that goes against their narrative, its a Kremlin source. Honest discussion is impossible
3 months ago
Anonymous
>Don't even botherACK
You think you r not obvious that you r samegayging?
I can't speak for the Wikipedia moderators but tell me anon, what does it mean to "win" a battle? Is it simply about lines of control? Russia ended up controlling a few more square kilometers of mine infested smoking ruins, while losing SIGNIFICANTLY more military assets than Ukraine did
You can click on talk or history to see revisions and discussions, it also has extended protection.
My guess is editors are in a battle themselves so the article will be frozen until they can come to a decision.
A basic check of the history and the talk page shows there was an edit war going on so the editors just locked the page until something more conclusive comes along.
>what does it mean to "win" a battle? Is it simply about lines of control?
Yeah, pretty much. That's the goal of the battle, is it not? A pyrrhic victory is still a victory.
>That's the goal of the battle, is it not?
The stated goal is to free the poor innocent civilians (who's homes you reduced to roofless gay BJ boxes) and remove le nazis (who ended up killing Russians 6 to 1)
>A pyrrhic victory is still a victory.
No you fricking moron, the point of a phyrric victory is that it cost so much that it may as well be a loss. If you force an enemy to retreat from an area at the cost of your fighting capability in the region, that's a phyrric victory - sure, you got the area, but your shit is spent, and you're essentially a nonthreat compared to what an actual victory would bring.
If a hundred men on each side clash, and one side retreats with 50 survivors whilst the other stands with 10 - that's a phyrric victory, because those 10 are a non threat and the 50 get to regroup and refocus.
A phyrric victory is not a victory, it is a sweetened defeat.
You can click on talk or history to see revisions and discussions, it also has extended protection.
My guess is editors are in a battle themselves so the article will be frozen until they can come to a decision.
>Why doesn't Wikipedia show who won Bakhmut?
Because it was such a shit show that people are still trying to erase Prigozhin from their collective memory
I know this is hard for you Vatniks to believe, but just because you take a town doesn't necessarily mean you've automatically won the battle. Some examples
>Fredericksburg, 1862 - Union troops capture the town in a matter of hours, but Confederate defense buys time for the Army of Northern Virginia to regroup on the ridges and defeat subsequent attacks >Gettysburg, 1863 - Confederate troops straight-up chase the Union Army into and through the town and they are unable to put up any kind of effective defense, but the delay allows them to regroup on the high ground outside of town and the ensuing two days are a complete disaster for the Confederate Army >Stalingrad, 1942 - Over a series of months, German troops from the 6th Army manage to capture virtually the entire city except for a few blocks along the waterfront and at one, point, even the famously stoic General Chuikov practically had a mental breakdown and declared all was lost. German success turns out to be utterly meaningless however because all their efforts to capture the city did was overextend themselves and leave them vulnerable to an attack in the rear, resulting in the encirclement and virtual annihilation of the 6th Army. >Rzhev, 1943 - Soviet troops finally manage to capture the ruins of the city after months of bitter fighting, only to have completely failed in their goal of destroying the salient because German troops evacuated the entire area in good order, preventing the Soviets from following up their success at Stalingrad for many more months
Russians couldn't take it all then dug in. Every so often they send out meat waves. It's still happening but Russians ran out of man power to push there. They have had around 70,000 kia direct and 30 deaths indirect due to hanta, aids, tuberculosis and hepatitis outbreaks this winter on the line. It was 5-1 kd ratio for Ukraine, now with the meat waves single filing in at times it's 7-1 total.
I'm starting to suspect Russian dead may have already surpassed 400,000. No one seems to bother counting how many they lose to illness or succumbing to wounds well after the fact.
Remember, Ukrainian kill estimates only work off the number of Russians they kill in battle, anyone who gets his leg blown off in a drone drop, gets evacuated back to a hospital in Belgorod and then succumbs to infection afterward, isn't getting counted as a "kill" by the Ukrainians.
AND THERE IT IS!
Russia lost another fricking boat to a country with no navy and have to cope by trying to claim they got Bahkmut again. It's fricking amazing how predictable this shit is.
The Russians had a capital ship get blown up again. He's trying to redefine a cities boundaries by 300-400 meters to claim Russian won bakhumt. It's amusing
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Alexiscoutinho#November_2023
Looks like he's on a crusade to remove things that cite the Russian mod, and has a particular interest in Indian healthcare.
Nobody gives a shit about your crusade against Wikipedia editors. It’s clear this thread is just an excuse to bask in the painfully expired glory of Bakhmut because Russia’s second great winter offensive fell flat on its face again.
A. You can take a town and still have it contested because the enemy still hasn't yielded you the field and you cannot make use of it (the whole point of attacking Bakhmut in the first place was its roads).
B. You can take a town and still lose the battle outside of it.
[...]
>They are waiting till winter ends to do the big push
A lot, and she's absolutely adorable in every single one of them.
Should have posted the compilation of Russians fricking their skulls with their own bullets.
I don't know about you but I consider a grenade going off next to your head to be an infinitely worse skullfricking. I mean just look at that homie, the front half of his skull has basically collapsed lol
>Skullfricked you in Mariupol >Skullfricked you in Soledar >Skullfricked you in Lysychansk >Skullfricked you in Pisky >Skullfricked you in Bakhmut >Skullfricked you in Marinka >Currently skullfricking you in Avdeevka >I might have missed a few but you get the idea
>dear moderators sirs (yes I'm going to call you that from now on) can you please consider to delete this very VERY harming user post commments please can you readeam them please? Thank you
Top zozzle
>untested modem weaponry being used in Ukraine
God, I wish
Imagine the kino of F-22s absolutely dabbing on Su-57s while the F-35 rapes the rest of their Air Force and the B-21 skullfricks their air defenses, all before US supersoldiers wearing real life MJOLNIR rip T-14s apart with their bare hands and take on entire companies single-handedly
Oh, and it turns out that the SDI/Star Wars is not only real, but we had it the whole time, so when Putin inevitably tries to go for nooks, they all get shot down over Russian airspace
We won't know who won, or how big a victory or defeat it was, until the war is over and historians have had 5-10 years to gather and argue over the data.
Because it's an ongoing battle?
A common example of the template utilized for individual battles via Aleppo.
>Aleppo
What is Aleppo?
Probably because there's still battles around it and Russia never consolidated enough on the rubble heap to expand outside
spacetime singularity, ukraine won, ukraine lost, pussia won, pussia lost, battle is still ongoing, battle never happened.
Because the town is still contested. People still don't realize that Prigo essentially lied to everybody to save face and give himself an excuse to get out of that meatgrinder?
NTA but why isn't it still 'ongoing' then?
They could say 'pyrrhic pussian victory' or something or add a note saying this is still contested
Russians couldn't take it all then dug in. Every so often they send out meat waves. It's still happening but Russians ran out of man power to push there. They have had around 70,000 kia direct and 30 deaths indirect due to hanta, aids, tuberculosis and hepatitis outbreaks this winter on the line. It was 5-1 kd ratio for Ukraine, now with the meat waves single filing in at times it's 7-1 total.
So the result in wikipedia cannot yet be computed?
What? It's an ongoing battle.
I mean they put an end date there, I agree it's still ongoing so why did they put thet date? Just because Piggy raised a flag for 5 minutes in some random area of the city?
The Russians ran out of bodies and called it. They still push in trickles but that's it. It's just two trench lines facing each other
It's still contested rasheed. Ukranian troops are on the outskirts and they have full fire control over the city.
Ukrainian positions are static at 5km from Bakhmut.
By comparrison Russian positions are static at 5km from Kherson.
Is the battle for Kherson still an ongoing battle? The possibility of either side reclaiming either city in these two cases is so remote as to be a joke, but I guess theres still residual hopium supplies from the attempts at retaking Bakhmut back in sumer 23'. Seems kind of pathetic to squabble like this. Take the L and move on.
>Is the battle for Kherson still an ongoing battle?
Yes, and importantly one of Europe's largest rivers (with no intact crossings) is between the Russians and Kherson. Otherwise people would probably consider that front active
With the amount of ordenance Russia continues to drop on kherson city is it not still active by the definition anons were using above re fire control?
Bakhmut was just heavilt heavily politicised by both sides. Ukraine made some political blunders by flip flopping between its strategic importance but Id say its a pretty obvious Rusaian victory. Just like how the battle for Kherson was a pretty obvious Ukrainian victory.
Im getting heavy flashbacks to the cope of Mariupol that it was contested because 5 guys were living in a cumbunker to the south.
There's still active fighting going on around Bakhmut's flanks. Meanwhile, nobody is under any delusion Russia is capable of re-invading Kherson city, especially with Ukraine establishing bridgeheads on the Russian side of the river.
It's still ongoing. They have lost 100 k deaths killed in action and indirect trench conditions. Ukrainians have lost 14k total. Both sides control pieces. It's just a part of the trench line.
There's isn't a 2 mile wide river in between Ukranian postions in the outskirts of Bahkmut and the rest of Bahkmut.
There may as well be because as demonstrated by failed attempts last summer to push back into Bakhmut Russia has 6 gorillion mines between the Ukrainian positions and Bakhmut propper.
Infact, a river ceossing to Kherson is demonstrably more feasible than a push to Bakhmut. So who won Kherson?
>Infact, a river ceossing to Kherson is demonstrably more feasible than a push to Bakhmut
That's some pretty big fricking delusion right there. Russia didn't have proper amphibious capability even in the heyday of the 3 day SMO.
Is it still 2 miles wide even after the dam break?
Battle outcomes on Wikipedia are based on conclusions from the involved parties. Both Ukraine and Russia agree that Kherson was a Russian loss.
For Bakhmut, the sticking point is that while the Russians claim victory for occupying (most of) the town, Ukraine maintains it was a victory for them due to the disproportionate losses they inflicted on the Russians. And still Bakhmut is still an active front, there's not really any point trying to claim a winner right now.
>(most of)
Its the entire town anon. Check deepstate.
Russian positions firmly encapsulate the entire city of Bakhmut.
I dont understand the reluctance to just accept the result of the battle. Any subsequent battle can then be called the 2nd battle of Bakhmut if Ukraine ever challenges Russian control of the city.
This is really desperate. What did the Ukrainians blow up now
Well, EU just voted for €50B more assistance to Ukraine, despite lolban. Might be a combo of that and aftershocks of the strikes in Crimea a day or two ago.
It's obviously the sinking of the Ivanovets last night
>Check deepstate.
>Pweeees pweeeeees start using vatniks source so my cope will work
No vatnik you must suffer
God damn you are moronic. Deepstate is Ukie source. One of the most reliable even.
>it was hohol map
lol lmao even
You're moronic anon, its literally a ukrainian based map hosted by and operated by ukrainians in ukraine. It literally is a hohol map.
Don't even bother. It literally doesn't matter to them that its the most reliable map and its also Ukrainian. If it shows something that goes against their narrative, its a Kremlin source. Honest discussion is impossible
>Don't even botherACK
You think you r not obvious that you r samegayging?
Again, read the damn discussion page. Neither side has admitted defeat in Bakhmut so it's still technically ongoing.
But i thought the truth the west was trying to suppress was on intel slava z
By your "logic", battle of avdiivka ended 10 years ago and Ukraine already won.
Until the battle is over there isn't a conclusion, and it might one end in a period of domination. 1st battle. 2nd battle etc
think Stalingrad, Germany had won besides a few building next to the river yet.....
I can't speak for the Wikipedia moderators but tell me anon, what does it mean to "win" a battle? Is it simply about lines of control? Russia ended up controlling a few more square kilometers of mine infested smoking ruins, while losing SIGNIFICANTLY more military assets than Ukraine did
A basic check of the history and the talk page shows there was an edit war going on so the editors just locked the page until something more conclusive comes along.
>what does it mean to "win" a battle? Is it simply about lines of control?
Yeah, pretty much. That's the goal of the battle, is it not? A pyrrhic victory is still a victory.
I would say russian tactical victory, ukrainian strategic victory.
The Russians took the territory, but the ukrainians bled them for so long.
>That's the goal of the battle, is it not?
The stated goal is to free the poor innocent civilians (who's homes you reduced to roofless gay BJ boxes) and remove le nazis (who ended up killing Russians 6 to 1)
But the actual goal is to take ground.
>A pyrrhic victory is still a victory.
No you fricking moron, the point of a phyrric victory is that it cost so much that it may as well be a loss. If you force an enemy to retreat from an area at the cost of your fighting capability in the region, that's a phyrric victory - sure, you got the area, but your shit is spent, and you're essentially a nonthreat compared to what an actual victory would bring.
If a hundred men on each side clash, and one side retreats with 50 survivors whilst the other stands with 10 - that's a phyrric victory, because those 10 are a non threat and the 50 get to regroup and refocus.
A phyrric victory is not a victory, it is a sweetened defeat.
You can click on talk or history to see revisions and discussions, it also has extended protection.
My guess is editors are in a battle themselves so the article will be frozen until they can come to a decision.
>Why doesn't Wikipedia show who won Bakhmut?
Because it was such a shit show that people are still trying to erase Prigozhin from their collective memory
Because it’s not a victory until you can hold onto the territory uncontested, which neither side can do at the moment.
I know this is hard for you Vatniks to believe, but just because you take a town doesn't necessarily mean you've automatically won the battle. Some examples
>Fredericksburg, 1862 - Union troops capture the town in a matter of hours, but Confederate defense buys time for the Army of Northern Virginia to regroup on the ridges and defeat subsequent attacks
>Gettysburg, 1863 - Confederate troops straight-up chase the Union Army into and through the town and they are unable to put up any kind of effective defense, but the delay allows them to regroup on the high ground outside of town and the ensuing two days are a complete disaster for the Confederate Army
>Stalingrad, 1942 - Over a series of months, German troops from the 6th Army manage to capture virtually the entire city except for a few blocks along the waterfront and at one, point, even the famously stoic General Chuikov practically had a mental breakdown and declared all was lost. German success turns out to be utterly meaningless however because all their efforts to capture the city did was overextend themselves and leave them vulnerable to an attack in the rear, resulting in the encirclement and virtual annihilation of the 6th Army.
>Rzhev, 1943 - Soviet troops finally manage to capture the ruins of the city after months of bitter fighting, only to have completely failed in their goal of destroying the salient because German troops evacuated the entire area in good order, preventing the Soviets from following up their success at Stalingrad for many more months
Obligatory tactical analysis
I'm starting to suspect Russian dead may have already surpassed 400,000. No one seems to bother counting how many they lose to illness or succumbing to wounds well after the fact.
Remember, Ukrainian kill estimates only work off the number of Russians they kill in battle, anyone who gets his leg blown off in a drone drop, gets evacuated back to a hospital in Belgorod and then succumbs to infection afterward, isn't getting counted as a "kill" by the Ukrainians.
350 k kia direct confirmed from everyone but Russians at least. Indirect 200 250 k from ransoms like NATO, USA, UK, pole, aus, korea
>pic
can we not edit a cat in there ?
A Corvette
AND THERE IT IS!
Russia lost another fricking boat to a country with no navy and have to cope by trying to claim they got Bahkmut again. It's fricking amazing how predictable this shit is.
This is a false flag, its actually an american corvette off yemen. Look at the pixels it's been edited.
it was promoted to submarine just like the plan says, follow the plan comrade
This is so kino. And to think Russia can’t even stop Ukraine from selling grain lol.
>Why yes i fought in the ukriane war, i fought online about whether a wikipedia article of a battle was correct.
Looks like it got edited out four days ago.
Maybe you should ask the talk page instead of us.
The Russians had a capital ship get blown up again. He's trying to redefine a cities boundaries by 300-400 meters to claim Russian won bakhumt. It's amusing
>Tarantul-class
>capital ship
You don't belong on this board anon. Even reddit knows more about warships than this.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Alexiscoutinho#November_2023
Looks like he's on a crusade to remove things that cite the Russian mod, and has a particular interest in Indian healthcare.
They maintain their objective was to inflict disproportionate losses on the Russians, which they did.
Read the damn discussion page. Not sure why you’re picking a fight here instead of against the wikipedia editors.
Prigo, you're supposed to be dead. Go back to whatever shithole you got isekaied to.
prigo rants were actually entertaining compared to that shitskin's whining
Nobody gives a shit about your crusade against Wikipedia editors. It’s clear this thread is just an excuse to bask in the painfully expired glory of Bakhmut because Russia’s second great winter offensive fell flat on its face again.
>Ukraine stops existing entirely in the near future
Two more weeks, right?
You've had multiple people explain to you that
A. You can take a town and still have it contested because the enemy still hasn't yielded you the field and you cannot make use of it (the whole point of attacking Bakhmut in the first place was its roads).
B. You can take a town and still lose the battle outside of it.
>They are waiting till winter ends to do the big push
Is no one gonna tell this guy?
Goddam, how many pictures did that little b***h take?
A lot, and she's absolutely adorable in every single one of them.
I don't know about you but I consider a grenade going off next to your head to be an infinitely worse skullfricking. I mean just look at that homie, the front half of his skull has basically collapsed lol
Nobody tell him about Kyiv, Kherson, and Kharkiv.
lmfao, feeding tens of thousands of conscripts into the meat grinder for some post industrial villages is skullfricking in your mind?
>Skullfricked you in Mariupol
>Skullfricked you in Soledar
>Skullfricked you in Lysychansk
>Skullfricked you in Pisky
>Skullfricked you in Bakhmut
>Skullfricked you in Marinka
>Currently skullfricking you in Avdeevka
>I might have missed a few but you get the idea
Should have posted the compilation of Russians fricking their skulls with their own bullets.
u mean GLORIUS PUSSIAN KILLSTREAK???
Likely because he was a pajeet that got banned for spamming.
>They are waiting till winter ends to do the big push
>literally two more weeks posting
lemao
You should post more of those “puccians still haven’t avdiivka after 6 gorrillion losses xaxaxa” threads while you still have time
>puccians still haven’t avdiivka after 6 gorrillion losses xaxaxa
may I see it?
>wagner flag
how do you cope with knowing the only mildly competent arm of the russian military was deleted by monke for no reason
>for no reason
I think we all know the reason tho
>dear moderators sirs (yes I'm going to call you that from now on) can you please consider to delete this very VERY harming user post commments please can you readeam them please? Thank you
Top zozzle
This guy is still my favorite meme to come from this war.
>AND A LITTLE BIT OF CHICKEN FRIED
>please heeelp me mods aaaaAACK
>untested modem weaponry being used in Ukraine
God, I wish
Imagine the kino of F-22s absolutely dabbing on Su-57s while the F-35 rapes the rest of their Air Force and the B-21 skullfricks their air defenses, all before US supersoldiers wearing real life MJOLNIR rip T-14s apart with their bare hands and take on entire companies single-handedly
Oh, and it turns out that the SDI/Star Wars is not only real, but we had it the whole time, so when Putin inevitably tries to go for nooks, they all get shot down over Russian airspace
>mods?
lol can't even handle bant on the internet
>posting a wagner flag over Bakhmut in a Bakhmut thread is deleted and banned.
guys that put that flag there suffered far worse - show some fricking respect you vile zigger.
We won't know who won, or how big a victory or defeat it was, until the war is over and historians have had 5-10 years to gather and argue over the data.