Yes but I think he means it more like how much time and effort it takes to get and stay competitive, cost of ammo, getting your ass out to the range weekly or more etc
/k/ likes video game action and military larping. They don't like most competitions because there isn't enough action involved and because they know deep down inside that the competitors who they look down upon have far more experience shooting than they do.
Wait until you hear that people get paid to *pretend* to shoot with electronic toys.
It is unfortunately expensive and hard to pay for if you're middle class with 5 mouths to feed.
Do people really get paid to run around and shoot cardboard?
Only the absolute best. The embassadors of the sport who can shoot circles around you or any other competitor.
It's boring to watch and for the most part, boring to compete in, as well as most of them being "reality based" but full of wierd arbitrary rules based on fuddlore.
It's boring to watch because you're not actively competing in it at a high level. When you're watching your peers shoot you're also making plans on how to catch up, pass them, or prevent them from passing you on points like any other stupid game or sport. Provided you're good enough to keep up with them in the first place. All YOU most likely see is a guy run around and shooting fast, I see a guy using perfect technique and years of training making highly skilled double taps at a 25 yard headbox A-zone which motivates me to practice my technique and get better.
>Arbitrary rules based on fuddlore.
No such thing, it's a sport. No one thinks it's realistic 1 to 1 training for self defense. You're the type to think you'll beat an MMA fighter in a fist fight with your tactical Krav Maga because the fighter doesn't "train foe da reel thang". Realistically, you probably wouldn't want to get into a gunfight with a USPSA grandmaster, plenty of easier fights out there. Rules exist simply because, again, it's a sport and not real life. You need to find a way to make it challenging and fair. Which is why we have divisions.
I don't hate USPSA shooters I just think they are homosexual. In their nascar tier jerseys pushing around little baby stroller carts with their shit in it. It's funny more than anything else.
>t.always picked last in sports
And don't even deny it, fatty.
you realize you can just show up and have fun, right? you don't get paddled or kicked out if you score badly.
And shatter their unfounded ego? Good luck. It's better to sit home in front of a monitor and just claim to be good.
It's gotten progressively more costly to get in and be genuinely competitive, not to mention I've seen an influx of a rather aggressive mindset. This makes it increasingly difficult for newbies to get their foot in the door. The shotgun element of 3 gun drove me out, for example. You absolutely have to turn them into unwieldy abortions to not time out and now victories are determined by how big your shotgun mag is.
That's a very specific example. And that's for three gun only. There are many other competitions and competitive events that have stock divisions. I don't complain about not being able to compete in formula 1 because I don't have the money or the car is impractical.
Well if we're talking about simply going to local matches. Then yes, what you've said is how I started getting into the sport. But even then, consider this.
>30 cents per 9mm round >Shoot anywhere from 250 to 400 shots per competition, that's $75 to $150 >Not including taxes >Not including match fees which are anywhere from 20 to 35 dollars >Not including yearly membership
In a month, if I go every Saturday because I'm trying to reach GM or go up rankings, that's anywhere from $400 dollars a month to $800, I could be driving a mercedes or Lexus with that kind of monthly cash. That's not even considering the Level 2 matches which cost $200 MINIMUM to enter. And sometimes it means taking time off work, traveling, hotels, which adds up in lodging, plane tickets or gas. And if you're in any other division other than Production, you will probably spend a lot on your gun and shooting gear.
Everything is going to come 100% out of your pocket unless you're sponsored by a big company. You gotta win a championship for that. So while I do agree it CAN be inexpensive. If you want to actually compete at the highest levels, it's a rich man's game.
>if I go every Saturday because I'm trying to reach GM
Well your first problem here is thinking that you can reach GM without a sponsor helping you cover your ammo costs. GM level shooters typically shoot 45k-65k rounds per year to maintain their skills. Even at what I could reload 9mm for in 2019, that's $5k-$7k a year in practice ammo alone.
You don't gotta win to get sponsored.
It helps, but it's not necessary. You can do a lot by being a decent guy, putting consistent content on social media and being welcome to new people.
Spend less time being salty online, and figure out how to game the game.
But if you are trying to become a GM, you are in a whole different league. If you want to proficient and not make a fool out of yourself, then you can just dryfire 5 minutes a week and stay in general shape and still make B-class
I'm already M class and I'm not salty about the money, I am however realistic and it's been a very expensive road. And I've still been rather cheap in my approach compared to a lot of other shooters who've invested way more and are still shooting at A class.
I've gotten to where I have on dry fire and physical exercise for the most part.
anywhere from 250 to 400 shots per competition, that's $75 to $150
Holy shit, does USPSA actually involve shooting that much? I've heard IDPA matches are about 100 rounds.
The only people you'd fool with that statement is those who don't know the state of competitive shooting and yourself in delusion. It's not prestigious and big enough sport that anyone will pay for a single thing you do unless you're sponsored by a big company. And I sincerely doubt I have JJ Recaza or Eric Grauffel on PrepHole telling me how "little effort" they put into it when all they do is talk about the hours of dry fire and thousands of rounds they shoot... PER DAY
morons who barely shoot, know nothing about shooting AND think they're better than everyone have a severe hatred of those who wal the walk and talk the talk. This isn't everyone on /k/ but they're the loudest.
>morons who barely shoot, know nothing about shooting AND think they're better than everyone have a severe hatred of those who walk the walk and talk the talk. This isn't everyone on /k/ but they're the loudest.
/thread
>goes to first competition >gets smoked >comes home to post on /k/ >LET ME TELL YOU WHY COMP SHOOTING IS UNREALISTIC
many such cases.
Or this.
But yeah some people can't accept that while spending hundreds of hours posting on /k/ instead of shooting is a legal choice for an adult man, it doesn't make them equally good. Reminds me of shitty casual game players who call people trying to improve "tryhards" as if working to better skill is an insult.
>Reminds me of shitty casual game players who call people trying to improve "tryhards" as if working to better skill is an insult
They are. Playing Vidya is useless skills. They should be going out to the range or something with physical gains.
Seems absolutely cool from westerneuro standpoint because our sportshooting is mostly olympic kinda static and slow shooting stuff. You guys can go full John Wick on cardboard and nobody thinks "ohmagad this guy is probably going to attack the local church" because of it. People just think that's a nice sport anyone can practice and is even somewhat cool to watch. Naaaah, you good, really.
Maybe you guys could do cowboy shooting? It has the same level of action as modern 3 gun, but the use of 19th century firearms makes it less offputting to nogunz
It's boring to watch and for the most part, boring to compete in, as well as most of them being "reality based" but full of wierd arbitrary rules based on fuddlore.
IDPA rules seem to try and be welcoming to new shooters by allowed any and all styles but ALSO tries to prevent metagamers. the big thing i noticed the first time i went to an IDPA match was one: the 10rd hard limit for the carry optics devision and two: the requirement to reindex partially loaded mags when doing a tactical reload. you're only allowed to drop a mag if its empty, not as a safety thing but a game balance thing.
imo IDPA should be treated like practice and USPSA should be treated more like a sport.
>Don't flag yourself >Don't flag anybody else >Keep the muzzle pointed at one of the three berms and not backwards >Don't keep ammo in your gun unless it's your turn to shoot
All these and more are arbitrary rules based on fuddlore.
Yeah, everyone knows how lax the military and operators are with flagging oneself and muzzle control. When I was a Navy Delta Ranger, we would literally flag each other on purpose and then go "BANG!!!". Competition sports are a bunch of fudds who don't know how to shoot.
>getting your feelings hurt because someone is shitposting, so you imply they got their feelings hurt so you don't appear as the one with hurt feelings
A tale as old as time. It's okay slick, you'll live. It's not like you have to get into a shootout with an actual shooter or anything.
I don't hate USPSA shooters I just think they are homosexual. In their nascar tier jerseys pushing around little baby stroller carts with their shit in it. It's funny more than anything else.
It's gotten progressively more costly to get in and be genuinely competitive, not to mention I've seen an influx of a rather aggressive mindset. This makes it increasingly difficult for newbies to get their foot in the door. The shotgun element of 3 gun drove me out, for example. You absolutely have to turn them into unwieldy abortions to not time out and now victories are determined by how big your shotgun mag is.
>3 gun stage
Competitive shotgun reloaders are going to be better at competitive shotgun reloading than anyone who has not specifically trained in competitive shotgun reloading.
Always have been.
Look at the results for the mil sniper competitions, then look at the civ ones like altus.
The SOF dudes get crushed every single time.
Competition is a lot harder when you are dealing with people who actually want to win and spend tens of thousands of their own dollars and time vs. some guy who is just being pushed through a mil school.
/k/ forgets most mil/sof dudes are not gun guys.
>/k/ forgets most mil/sof dudes are not gun guys.
This. Even if they're seeing real combat, the average military shooter is going to be out-shot in terms of accuracy by the average range fatass dutifully shooting his way through a box of fifty 9mm rounds 3 times a week.
This isn't a statement against the military though, because the military has other more pressing concerns: People optimizing for perfect accuracy, rather than optimizing for not losing firefights against people who will be shooting back at them, are playing COMPLETELY different games
>The shit they do will get you smoked in a real gunfight.
typical LARP response.
https://twitter.com/dewszt/status/1635270133362069504?s=20 >delta >runnan >gunnan >clearan
not too far removed from the way 3 gun stages are run.
Thanks for the laugh. Those guys didn't even shoot back. That whole team would have became casualties if it was real. Look what happened with Delta in Iraq during early GWOT. They took lots of casulties from thinking they could do this in real life. All it takes is one PKM behind a doorway to ruin your day.
I like the guy in the hallway who just pathetically kept his gun down for the delta guy to waltz in, rather pointing it towards the sounds of shooting.
Very real, totally.
What kinda training are you doing where you can't hit a paper target with precision and speed, but all of a sudden will be able to if it becomes a real man with a gun aimed at you?
he's using ad hominems and logical fallacies to somehow prove he's right when he's being a dumbass. No shitposting isn't a good excuse to act like an obtuse nobody.
It all depends since both are relatively good at what they do. Anyone saying otherwise is grasping at straws to reinforce their viewpoint that's shoddy and incongruent at best.
Yes.
They are better at SHOOTING.
Tactical medical training, guess who they are trained by? medical experts.
special forces swimming coaches? olympic swimmers
navy seals skydiving? taught by skydiving nerds
Why on earth would shooting be any different?
Most special forces are centered around several certain high level skillsets. So that's the trick, they know several things at a high level. At the top level, you have people who are dedicated to one craft.
Michael Glover is an asshat who'd get smoked by random 17 year old girls in USPSA. He has plenty of knowledge at a high level, but he's an asshat who pretends to be an expert at everything. This motherfricker is so dim you'd need a electron microscope to see the two neurons in his brain firing whenever he talks about having been in special operations.
I find it interesting that even before the early steel challenge shooting days, the US Military has been hiring sport and exhibition shooters to teach SF how to shoot, and people still want to claim that sport shooters would get wrecked in a gunfight. Yeah I guess, because a Navy SEAL wouldn't engage in a fair gunfight with a sport shooter, he's gonna use an infrared laser to paint a target and have said target blown up from more than a mile away. In today's world of precision military equipment with drones, satellites, aircraft, etc. Any modern small arms engagement that happens is either an assassination, or something went wrong and the higher technologically advanced civilization must trade fire with with the primitives who aren't armed with satellites and stealth aircraft but are armed with small arms
If that makes you feel better about your shooting skills, then sure. I won't deny tactics are important, but seriously, what exactly are you dedicating the rest of your 99% when it comes to shooting if not shooting? We're discussing shooting here. Not first aid. Not calling in air support. Do you ONLY train to stay behind cover and show a small profile? Because sport shooters know about that stuff. It's not exactly obscure super secret ninja knowledge. There's plenty of books, YouTube videos, hell even milsim vidyea out there that gets deep into these things. Granted having been infantry in the Muhreenes doesn't make me the most knowledgeable guy in tactics, but we did a lot of tactical training when it came to small unit tactics. Which is good for infantry style warfare but has no application in my civilian life. When it came to CQB (which has SOME application for home defense) there's only so much you can teach and practice. Past a few basic principles, tactics are basically dynamic concepts that you apply to your shooting skills which should be high to begin with. As a civilian I am not double stacking behind barricades with my equally trained buddy where I have to be careful about my knee/leg positioning so that I don't kick him out of cover. I have no need for that info anymore unless I believed I would be fighting groups of armed men with my groups of armed men. But given all the 1st and 2nd Amendment infringed and false arrested individuals and not a single shot fired against tyranny, I don't think I'll ever be in that situation again. Now I just want quick and reactive shooting to typical self defense threats.
I'm not discussing any of that, anon. I'm just pointing out your claim sport shooters would dominate a firefight despite generally being unpracticed in the most important factors involved because they can shoot fast and accurately is bunk. It's like saying you're an IPSC grand master because you read a book and watched a youtube video.
Your regression into muh rights cope makes it clear this is an emotional thing for you and not a rational analysis about what's ultimately pretty simple stuff.
1 year ago
Anonymous
And yet in 10 years of shit posting on gun forums and /k/, no one in the tacticool community has been able to answer me this simple question... "So what are tactical shooters training in, that sport shooters don't or can't train in?".
As I said earlier. I've been in the Muhreenes as Infantry. We literally cross trained with San Diego SWAT, I've worked with CHP in Camp Pendleton and in Los Angeles, we have our own CQB course's and events. Other than using the principles of cover and concealment at all times, there isn't much out there that a "tacticool" shooter can do over a competition shooter can't. If you're referring to infantry style combat/warfare, or SWAT tactics regarding rappelling, breaching, flashbangs, etc. Then that's completely different and outside the scope of PRACTICAL shooting skills for the average man. Those aren't even necessarily shooting skills either.
Again. We're discussing PRACTICAL SHOOTING. And nothing is more practical for the average civilian than learning to shoot fast and accurately given that the average civilian will likely only find himself in a CCW situation or home defense situation.
You disagree with my take on military vs civilian practical shooting skills, and apparently that makes me "emotional" lol. But the fact of the matter is you haven't replied or rebutted anything I said other than basically just saying "nuh uh". Face it. You're a midwit, clearly have zero experience in either sport or tactical shooting. And your gaslighting reply is a cop out from having to accept you have no rebuttal. How much longer until you grow up and the whole "le epic 1 man John wick Rambo navy shee-ul" bullshit wears out?
Comp is good for guns but as you can already see in the thread it is full of those who are spergy. If you can ignore these people irl you'll have a great time.
The guys with a superiority complex and hate boner barely even shoot anyway. Hell even if you barely shoot you're still better than those who sperg out at anything related to skill.
I don't hate them at all! But I think a lot of people have legitimate concerns that the competitions designed to emulate real life shooting scenarios have rules that are making them too gamey and impractical. I think they still make people better practical shooters, though.
They're not designed to emulate real life shooting. That's the thing you don't seem to understand. It's a sport. One that has you master basic fundamentals that you can take and apply to your "real life shooting". You know... Like shooting FAST AND ACCURATELY.
The athleticism, speed and precision, reaction time, timing, etc just becomes instantly useless because it's now a deadly situation? If so, please explain to me, how besides using cover and concealment, how are "tactical shooters", actually training to get better, in comparison to sport shooters? Glorified paintball with simmuniton? There is a sport that has tried to keep it "tactical" and has failed. How do you measure how much one shooter sticks out of cover vs the other in a competition? You can't reliably do that, so the ROs have to make the call, and can be biased and penalize someone while not penalizing another. So since we can't have high speed cameras and measuring laser devices at all times, we simply remove the "realistic" bullshit of telling shooters to have to use cover or concealment because it's not enforceable in a fair manner which is why no one likes IDPA. Otherwise what's next? Giving guys extra points for having a ghillie suit, body armor, or camo? We're trying to gauge how good of a SHOOTER someone is, not how good someone is at LARPING as a soldier or cop in an action movie. I was infantry for 6 years and never saw combat and only knew a few guys who did. The amount of people out there who have actually killed others is so extremely low, so even among "tactical shooters" it's all LARPING, and many times it just amounts to being lucky/unlucky and putting your sights on a stationary target 100 yards away and squeezing the trigger with a pretty flat shooting 5.56 round where you don't need to use skills to read the windage or elevation. Welcome to the real world. It's not as cool as action movies and games.
Yeah, practical shooting. The ability to have practical shooting skills. I'd argue that shooting fast and accurately is probably the most practical skills a shooter can have. Dressing up and playing pretend soldier when you're some middle aged civilian isn't practical. You know damn well all those militias will get droned or steam rolled by actual military units, 99% chance they all give up with zero bloodshed. I'm more interested in being able to reliably land shots on Jamal, Jose, or Cletus with my CCW, all while having fun knowing it really doesn't matter because statistically its improbable to begin with so I'm just enjoying the game that gives you basic practical shooting skills.
no hes going to talk about footwork, as if that isn't a real thing you have to learn with uspsa.
its painfully obvious that people are just making up reasons to not compete because they're afraid of meeting new people and lack the drive to do anything new.
1 year ago
Anonymous
I think it has to do more with the fact that they want to believe in that "military special forces ninja super hero" crap. Youre kinda killing their whole vidyea and action movie fixation when they learn that the US Gov literally hires sport shooters to go train their men. And the US Army has a shooting team, which they send out to compete in shooting sports in order to learn from the best shooters and bring that back to the soldiers in a watered down but more practical version
And that equipment will be at every match? You do know matches are held at regular shooting ranges? They're basically organized events. It's not like there are specific high tech USPSA arenas. And in a combat scenario, depending on the situation, you might have to stick more or less out of cover depending on your need to see better or if the target starts moving. How will that factor into consideration? Do taller people with bigger and broader shoulders automatically lose since the camera measured a bit more pixels?
I like competitive shooting, but the farthest I'm willing to go right now is IDPA. I like to shoot a few local matches a year just to compete against myself and measure my own skills, but that's it. I'm not interested in improving my score at the game of it, so I just show up exactly how I would normally carry without any special equipment. That's why I stop at IDPA, I'm not willing to buy new gear specific to the sport and put in all the time, money, and effort to improve skills within the confines of the rules of that sport.
Literally everything you said applies to USPSA. You can literally bring your appendix gear and shoot in production or open depending on whether you have a stock Glock or a comped Glock with a red dot. You said it yourself. You don't care about scores, it's just a place for you to shoot and have fun at your personal pace. And people in USPSA take themselves less seriously because they see it as a sport. In IDPA it's full of the tacticool try hard boomer larpers that are always mentioning "in da streets"
Oh shit, I wasn't aware that USPSA allows appendix carry now. That was my biggest turn off from competition as a whole for a while, because I would have to practice a separate draw for the competition vs what I would do for normal carry. I'll check out what matches are available locally.
They've been allowing it for YEARS if you shot limited division. But now it's available for any division. I literally got into USPSA with my Glock 34 shooting minor in Limited with my appendix rig
One is motorcycles for example, and meetups are full of those type of people. Scuba diving is another. It's just the way it is. There is chill people too of course.
I had to sell my bike once too many beaners moved into my city. They are always drunk, high, or can't drive for shit. I loved my Hayabusa but it was collecting dust in the garage. Sold it to some Hispanic who will probably kill himself on it.
Actually never mind, there are IDPA matches every other week.
I might give it a shot, I hope I don't meet anyone as unnecessarily butthurt as the shooters ITT.
They're even worse than USPSA shooters. At least USPSA shooters understand it's just a sport and all they care about is that you don't flag everyone behind you. IDPA guys will never stop badmouthing you about how your technique will get you killed because they all think they're John Wick. IDPA is the tacticool version of USPSA. If you want fun try three gun or two gun.
Honestly doubt it, it just looks like a bunch of boomers with normal pistols. I'm less interested tacticool military larping. Also your posts ITT make me think the opposite too.
You seem to be under the impression that what you think about others is very important. You talk like a socialite woman redditor, rather than your average autistic Chad PrepHolener
Whatever man, all I know is that I'd rather practice on my own than bother with buttholes.
Maybe I'm a bit melodramatic, but you get sick of the constant negativity and unnecessary butthurt on this board.
1 year ago
Anonymous
>Whatever man
Did you forget to support the current thing on Facebook today?
1 year ago
Anonymous
Not that buttholes, but that makes you seem like an even bigger NPC. >CURRENT THING BAD SUPPORT OPPOSITE THING BEEP BOOP
1 year ago
Anonymous
>Because he doesn't support the current thing and makes fun of all the brainless normies who without any critical thoughts support what they're told to support by the media, surely it must mean that he automatically supports the opposite of the current thing
Lol typical NPC mentality. So unaware of the irony.
1 year ago
Anonymous
why did you even make the 'i support current thing' comment in the first place?
i hope you didn't see the phrase 'whatever man' and just built an entire liberal persona around it to get angry at
1 year ago
Anonymous
He legitimately did.
1 year ago
Anonymous
He legitimately did.
It wasn't just that. What gave you away were your multiple posts basically saying "WOW USPSA SHOOTERS ARE SO MEAN AND ANGRY, YOU GUYS ARE MAKING ME THINK TWICE ABOUT TRYING OUT YOUR SPORT". How dumb do you have to be to believe one guy in a basketweaving forum speaks for the whole sport? But you're not that dumb. You're just a feminine little gay using gaslighting tactics in the hopes of having people in an anonymous website respond to you in a nicer way. If you're this much of pussy behind a monitor, I can only imagine what kinda "man" you are in real life. Now go ahead and respond with your witty remark so that you can feel in control.
>Wow just wow
1 year ago
Anonymous
God he and several other posters making shitposts here act like fricking twitter users sharing an objectively bad "take" and then saying "duhh [insert whatever community here] internet defense force is here duhhh". Then posting smug reaction gifs thinking they're doing anything but making themselves look like morons.
1 year ago
Anonymous
It's the low test from having had a bad diet during formative years, and the learned behavior of being raised by a single mother. This behavior used to be exclusive to women, but you're starting to see it more and more among "men".
1 year ago
Anonymous
>you're gaslighting me!!!
Honestly sad.
Anyway, I already said I'm going to go to my local IDPA club and check it out. I genuinely do hope no one there is like you.
1 year ago
Anonymous
Big bad mean man made you cry??? 🙁
1 year ago
Anonymous
At the risk of going to "no u", you're typing whiny essays about gaslighting.
Reevaluate your life.
1 year ago
Anonymous
Yes. I'm the one who needs to reevaluate his life. Not the grown man acting like a preschool teacher with borderline personality disorder.
>"Wow I didn't know USPSA shooters were so mean" >"I was really gonna compete... but now I'm thinking twice about it if you are all mean like this" >"I sure hope I don't meet anyone like you at the competition event I'm going to lol"
If you're an actual male and not a female, you're absolutely pathetic and at this point consider transitioning since you already have the brain chemistry of a woman.
1 year ago
Anonymous
That anon was too nice to call you a prima donna butthole, but I'm not.
1 year ago
Anonymous
Jeepers batman! You crossed the line there! Do you kiss your mother with that mouth? Jee wiz!!!
I'm not sure what your experience is with IDPA, but mine has been the exact opposite. Last year, I shot a match with a J frame, and of course I finished last out of everyone with most of my time lost on reloads. But the only comments I got were people with several more years than me telling me that I shoot it pretty well and 5 shots are realistically plenty. I've never heard anyone talking bad about another shooter, but I've only ever shot with one club.
Hey, if that's the experience you got. Then by all means keep going there. I also carry a J-frame in the summer so I'm glad you're practicing with your carry piece
Well if we're talking about simply going to local matches. Then yes, what you've said is how I started getting into the sport. But even then, consider this.
>30 cents per 9mm round >Shoot anywhere from 250 to 400 shots per competition, that's $75 to $150 >Not including taxes >Not including match fees which are anywhere from 20 to 35 dollars >Not including yearly membership
In a month, if I go every Saturday because I'm trying to reach GM or go up rankings, that's anywhere from $400 dollars a month to $800, I could be driving a mercedes or Lexus with that kind of monthly cash. That's not even considering the Level 2 matches which cost $200 MINIMUM to enter. And sometimes it means taking time off work, traveling, hotels, which adds up in lodging, plane tickets or gas. And if you're in any other division other than Production, you will probably spend a lot on your gun and shooting gear.
Everything is going to come 100% out of your pocket unless you're sponsored by a big company. You gotta win a championship for that. So while I do agree it CAN be inexpensive. If you want to actually compete at the highest levels, it's a rich man's game.
if its a local club match they're usually only about 5 stages. imo unless you want to be a turbo gamer the local matches are the only ones you should be going to
My USPSA club literally has an informal 22lr division. However, it's mostly people running their 10/22s and AR15's with 22lr conversions. They started doing it when ~~*Covid*~~ dropped and ammo and ammo supplies were unobtanium.
you normally only shoot 100-150 rounds a match and are probably only doing one match a month. that isn't THAT much money.
Depends on the club. On mine we normally shoot long stages. 6x30 = 180. If you go to an event every week, you're shooting 720 rounds a month. Some poorgays can't spend that money, and that's not even considering match fees and everything else associated with getting to the event.
I just came here to say that at the very least competitions get amateurs (like me) outside and shooting.
I'm no great shot, especially compared to some of the others I shoot with, but I expect I'm better than the "average" gun owner just by shooting my guns twice a month under a modicum of pressure.
Don't be afraid to at least try it
Heres the dirty little secret -- competition shooting will make you better at shooting than 99% of gun owners in only a month or two, and if you keep doing it even longer you will be miles above your average gun owner. They are also the safest gun owners in the world because they get penalized heavily and disqualified if they arent. Once youve been competiting for a few months you will absolutely cringe at the average persons gun safety, including ex military etc
>because they get penalized heavily and disqualified if they arent
this. i got DQ'd at my first match because my gun just barely left 180. they take that shit super seriously and once you're out, you're out for the whole match so definitely enough incentive to learn your lesson.
Not particularly fun, all my experience with USPSA matches had ranges run by fricking autistic boomers. Other matches I've been to that haven't had shit venues were boring stages tuned more for race guns than stock pistols which meant they ended up being flat. Scored somewhat middling but would have preferred my time and 5 hours driving been spent at the flat range practicing.
Also tried IDPA and they wouldn't let me compete with the specific vest I had on because a little sliver of my holster peered through the bottom but people who had guns clearly visible were fine.
/k/ is a bunch of fatass larping morons who know they will get btfo and place last if they show up at a competition. this will break their delusion that they are better than others at this hobby because theyve memorized all the finishes of bolt carrier groups and what's not good to go and will get you killed in the streets because of an arfcom post from 2018
Only competitions I really have a problem with are the short range mag dumpy ones for long guns that try to come off as practical when the only practical situation they're close to simulating is going on a mass shooting. Particularly the shotgun ones where people get into ridiculous mods to be competitive.
This thread is an absolute shitshow loaded with misconceptions.
I'm Carry Optics A class. Here's what USPSA can do for you:
1. Gives you an objective, brutal, uncompromising standard to judge yourself against purely based on speed and accuracy (you're not likely to run into any of the more complex scoring rules outside of classifiers, and classifiers generally don't matter that much)
2. If you don't have access to an outdoor range, it gives you a public, easy way to show up, do full 160 degree transitions, move and shoot, and work on the clock under the supervision of other people who are probably better than you and can give you real advice for improvement.
3. It forces you to shoot a series of CoFs which you didn't design, on the clock, and cold. You can't retry it over and over again because you fricked it up- you have to actually perform on demand. At a normal range it's easy to shoot a drill ten times and cherry pick your best run to make you feel better about yourself, but at a match if you frick something up, that's your score.
4. You'll meet other people who are serious about guns and shooting in an environment where it's easy to make friends and back each other up. The USPSA community (here in MN at least) is fricking outstanding and extremely welcoming. I've made a ton of friends I wouldn't have otherwise met, dudes who had my back and helped me out when one of my guns got stolen, for example.
5. It'll give you a much more realistic picture of the actual performance you're capable of. It's easy to shoot a drill, hit a par time, and decide you're good- getting beaten at a USPSA match will show you the level of performance which is actually humanly possible, it'll show you how much faster and more accurate it's actually possible to BE. That's rough at the start but exciting as you get deeper into it.
Pretty much any 9mm or more powerful handgun can be shot in USPSA. Shoot a match, embrace that you probably suck, and start on the path to less suck
>it's expensive to have a competitive gun
For the first year+ of shooting competition, your gun doesn't matter at all. I shot a pretty basic Beretta 92 for my first year and a half of USPSA and it didn't hold me back at all. Holsters, belts and mag pouches are things you should have already, and a basic "battle belt" setup will work fine for a long, long time.
>It'll get you kilt in da streets!
X-Ray Alpha, a legit delta guy and USPSA GM, disagrees with you. Delta and SWAT brings in dudes like Ben Stoeger all the time to teach them shooting. USPSA won't give you a true tactical overview, but it is an extremely strong way to train actual shooting and moving. It's a valuable piece of the puzzle if your goal is to be good at gunfighting. Obviously no one discipline or skill is going to cover you 100%, but being on the clock is pretty good for ratcheting up the stress level.
>the community is hostile
It's really, really not. Dudes will only be hostile if you do some crazy stupid unsafe shit. I sucked mega ass at my first match and guys were still super supportive and helpful.
>there's all kinds of bullshit safety rules
A safe range is a safe range. The safety stuff becomes second nature once you learn it, and violations are extraordinarily rare. I've been ROing for a couple of years now and I've only had to DQ two people (one person was a newbie who drew while there were people downrange, the other was a dropped gun.)
Take it as seriously or unseriously as you want, get as gamer or ungamer as you want, but USPSA (or 2-gun, or 3-gun) are all valuable training tools, if your fragile-ass baby ego can handle it. Get out there and shoot. DBAP
Classification just lets you compete against other people of your (rough) skill level. If you're just shooting to train shooting, and not to chase the magical GM label, then they don't really matter, and they definitely don't matter for your first 6 months.
For the rest of you non-US guys here, check out IPSC in your local country. Chances are there is some sort of IPSC shooting there going on, you just don't know it.
Yes, it's probably quite boomery, but it's still more fun than sitting at home complaining about not shooting or not having guns.
You will be a euro gun owner. You will shoot matches.
Anything that turns a hobby into a job is gay.
anon
what if my job is someone's hobby?
anon
what if my hobby is someone's job?
anon
do you do maintenance work and craft replacement components for sail boats?
Why is Louis Sauzedde here?
Do people really get paid to run around and shoot cardboard?
Yes but I think he means it more like how much time and effort it takes to get and stay competitive, cost of ammo, getting your ass out to the range weekly or more etc
frick off tripgay
/k/ likes video game action and military larping. They don't like most competitions because there isn't enough action involved and because they know deep down inside that the competitors who they look down upon have far more experience shooting than they do.
Wait until you hear that people get paid to *pretend* to shoot with electronic toys.
But you can go to tacticool larp 2 gun matches and wear kit
but muh nascar jerseys!
How many people have turned it into a job compared to the average shooter?
you realize you can just show up and have fun, right? you don't get paddled or kicked out if you score badly.
It is unfortunately expensive and hard to pay for if you're middle class with 5 mouths to feed.
Only the absolute best. The embassadors of the sport who can shoot circles around you or any other competitor.
It's boring to watch because you're not actively competing in it at a high level. When you're watching your peers shoot you're also making plans on how to catch up, pass them, or prevent them from passing you on points like any other stupid game or sport. Provided you're good enough to keep up with them in the first place. All YOU most likely see is a guy run around and shooting fast, I see a guy using perfect technique and years of training making highly skilled double taps at a 25 yard headbox A-zone which motivates me to practice my technique and get better.
>Arbitrary rules based on fuddlore.
No such thing, it's a sport. No one thinks it's realistic 1 to 1 training for self defense. You're the type to think you'll beat an MMA fighter in a fist fight with your tactical Krav Maga because the fighter doesn't "train foe da reel thang". Realistically, you probably wouldn't want to get into a gunfight with a USPSA grandmaster, plenty of easier fights out there. Rules exist simply because, again, it's a sport and not real life. You need to find a way to make it challenging and fair. Which is why we have divisions.
>t.always picked last in sports
And don't even deny it, fatty.
And shatter their unfounded ego? Good luck. It's better to sit home in front of a monitor and just claim to be good.
That's a very specific example. And that's for three gun only. There are many other competitions and competitive events that have stock divisions. I don't complain about not being able to compete in formula 1 because I don't have the money or the car is impractical.
>It's better to sit home in front of a monitor and just claim to be good.
Exactly. That's why I call myself the six time champion of sex.
Do you get extra points in your next match if you shill this hard or something?
Okay, yeah I do. Now what do you get out of your response? Not having to accept reality because you were "witty" ?
I get to piss you off over the internet and it seems to be working. Is your comment sponsored by S&W?
Ah yeah bro. You got me haha. You were only trolling and pretending to be moronic.
this seethe brought to you by Federal!
No way you came up with that all by yourself.
it's ok you can pretend that cardboard cutout 5 yards away is the mean man on the internet
You sound smart.
you sound like you can suck a golf ball through a garden hose my boy
I too watched FMJ hehehe
Passionate but non sperg post. Youre gonna make it brah
I only disagree with one point here. That it's expensive. You can do 95% of the training in dryfire and regular physical fitness.
Well if we're talking about simply going to local matches. Then yes, what you've said is how I started getting into the sport. But even then, consider this.
>30 cents per 9mm round
>Shoot anywhere from 250 to 400 shots per competition, that's $75 to $150
>Not including taxes
>Not including match fees which are anywhere from 20 to 35 dollars
>Not including yearly membership
In a month, if I go every Saturday because I'm trying to reach GM or go up rankings, that's anywhere from $400 dollars a month to $800, I could be driving a mercedes or Lexus with that kind of monthly cash. That's not even considering the Level 2 matches which cost $200 MINIMUM to enter. And sometimes it means taking time off work, traveling, hotels, which adds up in lodging, plane tickets or gas. And if you're in any other division other than Production, you will probably spend a lot on your gun and shooting gear.
Everything is going to come 100% out of your pocket unless you're sponsored by a big company. You gotta win a championship for that. So while I do agree it CAN be inexpensive. If you want to actually compete at the highest levels, it's a rich man's game.
>if I go every Saturday because I'm trying to reach GM
Well your first problem here is thinking that you can reach GM without a sponsor helping you cover your ammo costs. GM level shooters typically shoot 45k-65k rounds per year to maintain their skills. Even at what I could reload 9mm for in 2019, that's $5k-$7k a year in practice ammo alone.
Which is why I'm trying so hard with limited ammo and as you said, working out and dry fire. I reached M btw. And I'm a middle of the pack M.
You don't gotta win to get sponsored.
It helps, but it's not necessary. You can do a lot by being a decent guy, putting consistent content on social media and being welcome to new people.
Spend less time being salty online, and figure out how to game the game.
But if you are trying to become a GM, you are in a whole different league. If you want to proficient and not make a fool out of yourself, then you can just dryfire 5 minutes a week and stay in general shape and still make B-class
I'm already M class and I'm not salty about the money, I am however realistic and it's been a very expensive road. And I've still been rather cheap in my approach compared to a lot of other shooters who've invested way more and are still shooting at A class.
I've gotten to where I have on dry fire and physical exercise for the most part.
anywhere from 250 to 400 shots per competition, that's $75 to $150
Holy shit, does USPSA actually involve shooting that much? I've heard IDPA matches are about 100 rounds.
You WILL magdump at 25 yards and you WILL enjoy it.
I like to fly airplanes, so I can feel your pain. About 300-500 dollars every time I go out for a few hours.
I put very little effort into competitive shooting and collect a paycheck out of it, maybe you're the one turning it into a job... somehow.
You rank and don't even put a thought into ammo costs? Post medals.
no, you dont
The only people you'd fool with that statement is those who don't know the state of competitive shooting and yourself in delusion. It's not prestigious and big enough sport that anyone will pay for a single thing you do unless you're sponsored by a big company. And I sincerely doubt I have JJ Recaza or Eric Grauffel on PrepHole telling me how "little effort" they put into it when all they do is talk about the hours of dry fire and thousands of rounds they shoot... PER DAY
fpbp
Like gun smithing and artistry? Unfettered homosexuals you lot are then.
morons who barely shoot, know nothing about shooting AND think they're better than everyone have a severe hatred of those who wal the walk and talk the talk. This isn't everyone on /k/ but they're the loudest.
>morons who barely shoot, know nothing about shooting AND think they're better than everyone have a severe hatred of those who walk the walk and talk the talk. This isn't everyone on /k/ but they're the loudest.
/thread
Or this.
But yeah some people can't accept that while spending hundreds of hours posting on /k/ instead of shooting is a legal choice for an adult man, it doesn't make them equally good. Reminds me of shitty casual game players who call people trying to improve "tryhards" as if working to better skill is an insult.
>Reminds me of shitty casual game players who call people trying to improve "tryhards" as if working to better skill is an insult
They are. Playing Vidya is useless skills. They should be going out to the range or something with physical gains.
I'll 1v1 any competitive shooter with a knife in the woods just to even out the playing field for them
You think a competitive shooter can't be into being innawoods? Heh... Nothing personel kid.
>Teleports behind you in forest with high tech alien race gun
The /k/ minority that isn't underage nogunz is still fat, slow, poor, and socially inept.
Seems absolutely cool from westerneuro standpoint because our sportshooting is mostly olympic kinda static and slow shooting stuff. You guys can go full John Wick on cardboard and nobody thinks "ohmagad this guy is probably going to attack the local church" because of it. People just think that's a nice sport anyone can practice and is even somewhat cool to watch. Naaaah, you good, really.
Maybe you guys could do cowboy shooting? It has the same level of action as modern 3 gun, but the use of 19th century firearms makes it less offputting to nogunz
>goes to first competition
>gets smoked
>comes home to post on /k/
>LET ME TELL YOU WHY COMP SHOOTING IS UNREALISTIC
many such cases.
It's boring to watch and for the most part, boring to compete in, as well as most of them being "reality based" but full of wierd arbitrary rules based on fuddlore.
are you sure about that?
IDPA has serious fuddlore problems, which have slightly improved recently with allowing WMLs and appendix holsters.
IDPA rules seem to try and be welcoming to new shooters by allowed any and all styles but ALSO tries to prevent metagamers. the big thing i noticed the first time i went to an IDPA match was one: the 10rd hard limit for the carry optics devision and two: the requirement to reindex partially loaded mags when doing a tactical reload. you're only allowed to drop a mag if its empty, not as a safety thing but a game balance thing.
imo IDPA should be treated like practice and USPSA should be treated more like a sport.
but you have to wear a fricking fishing vest. immediate pass
>Don't flag yourself
>Don't flag anybody else
>Keep the muzzle pointed at one of the three berms and not backwards
>Don't keep ammo in your gun unless it's your turn to shoot
All these and more are arbitrary rules based on fuddlore.
Yeah, everyone knows how lax the military and operators are with flagging oneself and muzzle control. When I was a Navy Delta Ranger, we would literally flag each other on purpose and then go "BANG!!!". Competition sports are a bunch of fudds who don't know how to shoot.
>shitposting this hard in an on-topic thread about competitive shooting just because it hurts your feelings somehow.
>getting your feelings hurt because someone is shitposting, so you imply they got their feelings hurt so you don't appear as the one with hurt feelings
A tale as old as time. It's okay slick, you'll live. It's not like you have to get into a shootout with an actual shooter or anything.
I don't hate USPSA shooters I just think they are homosexual. In their nascar tier jerseys pushing around little baby stroller carts with their shit in it. It's funny more than anything else.
Because it doesn't apply what so ever to real life self defense and will get you killed in a real life encounter.
>"Competition will get you killed in the streets"
Striker babby detected
>no fun allowed
It's gotten progressively more costly to get in and be genuinely competitive, not to mention I've seen an influx of a rather aggressive mindset. This makes it increasingly difficult for newbies to get their foot in the door. The shotgun element of 3 gun drove me out, for example. You absolutely have to turn them into unwieldy abortions to not time out and now victories are determined by how big your shotgun mag is.
>It's gotten progressively more costly to get in and be genuinely competitive
an M&P 2.0 with an apex trigger is all you need to be competitive with handguns. thats like 600 bucks total.
Tony Wong made GM in USPSA with a fricking Glock 26
lets be honest, you were never competitive to begin with
What were you classified at
Guys I have a serious question. Are competition shooters better at shooting than tactical shooters?
Yes. All of the Mike Glover dudebro SEALs types get smoked in competition by goofy looking dudes like Nils and JJ.
Better at shooting what? A USPSA stage?
Sure
A 3 gun stage?
Probably not
A real scenario?
Hard to say one way or the other.
>3 gun stage
Competitive shotgun reloaders are going to be better at competitive shotgun reloading than anyone who has not specifically trained in competitive shotgun reloading.
Always have been.
Look at the results for the mil sniper competitions, then look at the civ ones like altus.
The SOF dudes get crushed every single time.
Competition is a lot harder when you are dealing with people who actually want to win and spend tens of thousands of their own dollars and time vs. some guy who is just being pushed through a mil school.
/k/ forgets most mil/sof dudes are not gun guys.
>/k/ forgets most mil/sof dudes are not gun guys.
This. Even if they're seeing real combat, the average military shooter is going to be out-shot in terms of accuracy by the average range fatass dutifully shooting his way through a box of fifty 9mm rounds 3 times a week.
This isn't a statement against the military though, because the military has other more pressing concerns: People optimizing for perfect accuracy, rather than optimizing for not losing firefights against people who will be shooting back at them, are playing COMPLETELY different games
No. The shit they do will get you smoked in a real gunfight.
Yeah, it's better to draw slower and miss a lot.
>The shit they do will get you smoked in a real gunfight.
typical LARP response.
https://twitter.com/dewszt/status/1635270133362069504?s=20
>delta
>runnan
>gunnan
>clearan
not too far removed from the way 3 gun stages are run.
Thanks for the laugh. Those guys didn't even shoot back. That whole team would have became casualties if it was real. Look what happened with Delta in Iraq during early GWOT. They took lots of casulties from thinking they could do this in real life. All it takes is one PKM behind a doorway to ruin your day.
>pffffft, delta? well AYCKSHUALLY…
cope.
The guy in the helmet cam was never an assaulter.
>*snort* yeah, so you can just tell that guy isn’t an assaulted
>i would know
cope(nhagen is the capital of denmark)
holy shit we have reached an entirely new level of fudd
I like the guy in the hallway who just pathetically kept his gun down for the delta guy to waltz in, rather pointing it towards the sounds of shooting.
Very real, totally.
>The shit they do will get you smoked in a real gunfight.
what, shooting fast and accurately?
Shooting at targets that shoot back
So airsoft and paintball are the number one training tools for IRL got it.
I've always loved this cope. 99% of you tactical timmies cant even hit stationary cardboard targets that arent shooting at you
What kinda training are you doing where you can't hit a paper target with precision and speed, but all of a sudden will be able to if it becomes a real man with a gun aimed at you?
he's using ad hominems and logical fallacies to somehow prove he's right when he's being a dumbass. No shitposting isn't a good excuse to act like an obtuse nobody.
You don't shoot.
It all depends since both are relatively good at what they do. Anyone saying otherwise is grasping at straws to reinforce their viewpoint that's shoddy and incongruent at best.
They're better on a one way range at least.
Yes.
They are better at SHOOTING.
Tactical medical training, guess who they are trained by? medical experts.
special forces swimming coaches? olympic swimmers
navy seals skydiving? taught by skydiving nerds
Why on earth would shooting be any different?
Most special forces are centered around several certain high level skillsets. So that's the trick, they know several things at a high level. At the top level, you have people who are dedicated to one craft.
Michael Glover is an asshat who'd get smoked by random 17 year old girls in USPSA. He has plenty of knowledge at a high level, but he's an asshat who pretends to be an expert at everything. This motherfricker is so dim you'd need a electron microscope to see the two neurons in his brain firing whenever he talks about having been in special operations.
I find it interesting that even before the early steel challenge shooting days, the US Military has been hiring sport and exhibition shooters to teach SF how to shoot, and people still want to claim that sport shooters would get wrecked in a gunfight. Yeah I guess, because a Navy SEAL wouldn't engage in a fair gunfight with a sport shooter, he's gonna use an infrared laser to paint a target and have said target blown up from more than a mile away. In today's world of precision military equipment with drones, satellites, aircraft, etc. Any modern small arms engagement that happens is either an assassination, or something went wrong and the higher technologically advanced civilization must trade fire with with the primitives who aren't armed with satellites and stealth aircraft but are armed with small arms
Shooting is 1% of a firefight.
If that makes you feel better about your shooting skills, then sure. I won't deny tactics are important, but seriously, what exactly are you dedicating the rest of your 99% when it comes to shooting if not shooting? We're discussing shooting here. Not first aid. Not calling in air support. Do you ONLY train to stay behind cover and show a small profile? Because sport shooters know about that stuff. It's not exactly obscure super secret ninja knowledge. There's plenty of books, YouTube videos, hell even milsim vidyea out there that gets deep into these things. Granted having been infantry in the Muhreenes doesn't make me the most knowledgeable guy in tactics, but we did a lot of tactical training when it came to small unit tactics. Which is good for infantry style warfare but has no application in my civilian life. When it came to CQB (which has SOME application for home defense) there's only so much you can teach and practice. Past a few basic principles, tactics are basically dynamic concepts that you apply to your shooting skills which should be high to begin with. As a civilian I am not double stacking behind barricades with my equally trained buddy where I have to be careful about my knee/leg positioning so that I don't kick him out of cover. I have no need for that info anymore unless I believed I would be fighting groups of armed men with my groups of armed men. But given all the 1st and 2nd Amendment infringed and false arrested individuals and not a single shot fired against tyranny, I don't think I'll ever be in that situation again. Now I just want quick and reactive shooting to typical self defense threats.
I'm not discussing any of that, anon. I'm just pointing out your claim sport shooters would dominate a firefight despite generally being unpracticed in the most important factors involved because they can shoot fast and accurately is bunk. It's like saying you're an IPSC grand master because you read a book and watched a youtube video.
Your regression into muh rights cope makes it clear this is an emotional thing for you and not a rational analysis about what's ultimately pretty simple stuff.
And yet in 10 years of shit posting on gun forums and /k/, no one in the tacticool community has been able to answer me this simple question... "So what are tactical shooters training in, that sport shooters don't or can't train in?".
As I said earlier. I've been in the Muhreenes as Infantry. We literally cross trained with San Diego SWAT, I've worked with CHP in Camp Pendleton and in Los Angeles, we have our own CQB course's and events. Other than using the principles of cover and concealment at all times, there isn't much out there that a "tacticool" shooter can do over a competition shooter can't. If you're referring to infantry style combat/warfare, or SWAT tactics regarding rappelling, breaching, flashbangs, etc. Then that's completely different and outside the scope of PRACTICAL shooting skills for the average man. Those aren't even necessarily shooting skills either.
Again. We're discussing PRACTICAL SHOOTING. And nothing is more practical for the average civilian than learning to shoot fast and accurately given that the average civilian will likely only find himself in a CCW situation or home defense situation.
You disagree with my take on military vs civilian practical shooting skills, and apparently that makes me "emotional" lol. But the fact of the matter is you haven't replied or rebutted anything I said other than basically just saying "nuh uh". Face it. You're a midwit, clearly have zero experience in either sport or tactical shooting. And your gaslighting reply is a cop out from having to accept you have no rebuttal. How much longer until you grow up and the whole "le epic 1 man John wick Rambo navy shee-ul" bullshit wears out?
Comp is good for guns but as you can already see in the thread it is full of those who are spergy. If you can ignore these people irl you'll have a great time.
The guys with a superiority complex and hate boner barely even shoot anyway. Hell even if you barely shoot you're still better than those who sperg out at anything related to skill.
have a nice day, frogBlack person
are any of you homosexuals actually grand wizards or whatever its called in your larping fantasy game?
How DARE you insult my special snowflake sport
I don't hate them at all! But I think a lot of people have legitimate concerns that the competitions designed to emulate real life shooting scenarios have rules that are making them too gamey and impractical. I think they still make people better practical shooters, though.
They're not designed to emulate real life shooting. That's the thing you don't seem to understand. It's a sport. One that has you master basic fundamentals that you can take and apply to your "real life shooting". You know... Like shooting FAST AND ACCURATELY.
The athleticism, speed and precision, reaction time, timing, etc just becomes instantly useless because it's now a deadly situation? If so, please explain to me, how besides using cover and concealment, how are "tactical shooters", actually training to get better, in comparison to sport shooters? Glorified paintball with simmuniton? There is a sport that has tried to keep it "tactical" and has failed. How do you measure how much one shooter sticks out of cover vs the other in a competition? You can't reliably do that, so the ROs have to make the call, and can be biased and penalize someone while not penalizing another. So since we can't have high speed cameras and measuring laser devices at all times, we simply remove the "realistic" bullshit of telling shooters to have to use cover or concealment because it's not enforceable in a fair manner which is why no one likes IDPA. Otherwise what's next? Giving guys extra points for having a ghillie suit, body armor, or camo? We're trying to gauge how good of a SHOOTER someone is, not how good someone is at LARPING as a soldier or cop in an action movie. I was infantry for 6 years and never saw combat and only knew a few guys who did. The amount of people out there who have actually killed others is so extremely low, so even among "tactical shooters" it's all LARPING, and many times it just amounts to being lucky/unlucky and putting your sights on a stationary target 100 yards away and squeezing the trigger with a pretty flat shooting 5.56 round where you don't need to use skills to read the windage or elevation. Welcome to the real world. It's not as cool as action movies and games.
tl;dr, but, you should read the mission statements of these organizations. you might learn something
Yeah, practical shooting. The ability to have practical shooting skills. I'd argue that shooting fast and accurately is probably the most practical skills a shooter can have. Dressing up and playing pretend soldier when you're some middle aged civilian isn't practical. You know damn well all those militias will get droned or steam rolled by actual military units, 99% chance they all give up with zero bloodshed. I'm more interested in being able to reliably land shots on Jamal, Jose, or Cletus with my CCW, all while having fun knowing it really doesn't matter because statistically its improbable to begin with so I'm just enjoying the game that gives you basic practical shooting skills.
>I'd argue that shooting fast and accurately is probably the most practical skills a shooter can have.
>everything i know about gunfighting i know from two webms
>Shows guy shooting fast and accurately
Uhh... Thanks I guess?
no hes going to talk about footwork, as if that isn't a real thing you have to learn with uspsa.
its painfully obvious that people are just making up reasons to not compete because they're afraid of meeting new people and lack the drive to do anything new.
I think it has to do more with the fact that they want to believe in that "military special forces ninja super hero" crap. Youre kinda killing their whole vidyea and action movie fixation when they learn that the US Gov literally hires sport shooters to go train their men. And the US Army has a shooting team, which they send out to compete in shooting sports in order to learn from the best shooters and bring that back to the soldiers in a watered down but more practical version
>. How do you measure how much one shooter sticks out of cover vs the other in a competition?
Unironically airsoft/paintball.
See
>Mfwnfw 13 year old kids with their mommies credit cards are better warriors and shooters than Spec Ops and competition shooters.
>How do you measure how much one shooter sticks out of cover vs the other in a competition?
A camera and some entirely plausible software development.
And that equipment will be at every match? You do know matches are held at regular shooting ranges? They're basically organized events. It's not like there are specific high tech USPSA arenas. And in a combat scenario, depending on the situation, you might have to stick more or less out of cover depending on your need to see better or if the target starts moving. How will that factor into consideration? Do taller people with bigger and broader shoulders automatically lose since the camera measured a bit more pixels?
Because you can buy new cool gear with your mom's credit card. Match placement takes actual effort.
we don't
just listen to all of the B class noises in this thread
I like competitive shooting, but the farthest I'm willing to go right now is IDPA. I like to shoot a few local matches a year just to compete against myself and measure my own skills, but that's it. I'm not interested in improving my score at the game of it, so I just show up exactly how I would normally carry without any special equipment. That's why I stop at IDPA, I'm not willing to buy new gear specific to the sport and put in all the time, money, and effort to improve skills within the confines of the rules of that sport.
Literally everything you said applies to USPSA. You can literally bring your appendix gear and shoot in production or open depending on whether you have a stock Glock or a comped Glock with a red dot. You said it yourself. You don't care about scores, it's just a place for you to shoot and have fun at your personal pace. And people in USPSA take themselves less seriously because they see it as a sport. In IDPA it's full of the tacticool try hard boomer larpers that are always mentioning "in da streets"
Oh shit, I wasn't aware that USPSA allows appendix carry now. That was my biggest turn off from competition as a whole for a while, because I would have to practice a separate draw for the competition vs what I would do for normal carry. I'll check out what matches are available locally.
They've been allowing it for YEARS if you shot limited division. But now it's available for any division. I literally got into USPSA with my Glock 34 shooting minor in Limited with my appendix rig
Practiscore.org, that's the website with the most matches.
Because you have to hit the target in competitive shooting something that the mexigoblins on this board can't do.
this thread sure as shit doesn't make me want to get into competitive shooting, seems like everyone's angry
Yeah dude. That's the real reason you won't do it.
That's basically everything from guns to motorcycles to cars etc. Bunch of gays gayging about
What's your hobby?
One is motorcycles for example, and meetups are full of those type of people. Scuba diving is another. It's just the way it is. There is chill people too of course.
I had to sell my bike once too many beaners moved into my city. They are always drunk, high, or can't drive for shit. I loved my Hayabusa but it was collecting dust in the garage. Sold it to some Hispanic who will probably kill himself on it.
I really want to do some competitive shooting but there's fricking nothing around me that wouldn't require driving multiple hours each way.
Actually never mind, there are IDPA matches every other week.
I might give it a shot, I hope I don't meet anyone as unnecessarily butthurt as the shooters ITT.
They're even worse than USPSA shooters. At least USPSA shooters understand it's just a sport and all they care about is that you don't flag everyone behind you. IDPA guys will never stop badmouthing you about how your technique will get you killed because they all think they're John Wick. IDPA is the tacticool version of USPSA. If you want fun try three gun or two gun.
Honestly doubt it, it just looks like a bunch of boomers with normal pistols. I'm less interested tacticool military larping. Also your posts ITT make me think the opposite too.
You seem to be under the impression that what you think about others is very important. You talk like a socialite woman redditor, rather than your average autistic Chad PrepHolener
Whatever man, all I know is that I'd rather practice on my own than bother with buttholes.
Maybe I'm a bit melodramatic, but you get sick of the constant negativity and unnecessary butthurt on this board.
>Whatever man
Did you forget to support the current thing on Facebook today?
Not that buttholes, but that makes you seem like an even bigger NPC.
>CURRENT THING BAD SUPPORT OPPOSITE THING BEEP BOOP
>Because he doesn't support the current thing and makes fun of all the brainless normies who without any critical thoughts support what they're told to support by the media, surely it must mean that he automatically supports the opposite of the current thing
Lol typical NPC mentality. So unaware of the irony.
why did you even make the 'i support current thing' comment in the first place?
i hope you didn't see the phrase 'whatever man' and just built an entire liberal persona around it to get angry at
He legitimately did.
It wasn't just that. What gave you away were your multiple posts basically saying "WOW USPSA SHOOTERS ARE SO MEAN AND ANGRY, YOU GUYS ARE MAKING ME THINK TWICE ABOUT TRYING OUT YOUR SPORT". How dumb do you have to be to believe one guy in a basketweaving forum speaks for the whole sport? But you're not that dumb. You're just a feminine little gay using gaslighting tactics in the hopes of having people in an anonymous website respond to you in a nicer way. If you're this much of pussy behind a monitor, I can only imagine what kinda "man" you are in real life. Now go ahead and respond with your witty remark so that you can feel in control.
>Wow just wow
God he and several other posters making shitposts here act like fricking twitter users sharing an objectively bad "take" and then saying "duhh [insert whatever community here] internet defense force is here duhhh". Then posting smug reaction gifs thinking they're doing anything but making themselves look like morons.
It's the low test from having had a bad diet during formative years, and the learned behavior of being raised by a single mother. This behavior used to be exclusive to women, but you're starting to see it more and more among "men".
>you're gaslighting me!!!
Honestly sad.
Anyway, I already said I'm going to go to my local IDPA club and check it out. I genuinely do hope no one there is like you.
Big bad mean man made you cry??? 🙁
At the risk of going to "no u", you're typing whiny essays about gaslighting.
Reevaluate your life.
Yes. I'm the one who needs to reevaluate his life. Not the grown man acting like a preschool teacher with borderline personality disorder.
>"Wow I didn't know USPSA shooters were so mean"
>"I was really gonna compete... but now I'm thinking twice about it if you are all mean like this"
>"I sure hope I don't meet anyone like you at the competition event I'm going to lol"
If you're an actual male and not a female, you're absolutely pathetic and at this point consider transitioning since you already have the brain chemistry of a woman.
That anon was too nice to call you a prima donna butthole, but I'm not.
Jeepers batman! You crossed the line there! Do you kiss your mother with that mouth? Jee wiz!!!
I'm not sure what your experience is with IDPA, but mine has been the exact opposite. Last year, I shot a match with a J frame, and of course I finished last out of everyone with most of my time lost on reloads. But the only comments I got were people with several more years than me telling me that I shoot it pretty well and 5 shots are realistically plenty. I've never heard anyone talking bad about another shooter, but I've only ever shot with one club.
Hey, if that's the experience you got. Then by all means keep going there. I also carry a J-frame in the summer so I'm glad you're practicing with your carry piece
yeah the crowd i shot with at both the uspsa and idpa event were all nice people.
I figure I could ask here. Considering current ammo prices are likely here to stay, are any major competitions opening up .22 divisions?
you normally only shoot 100-150 rounds a match and are probably only doing one match a month. that isn't THAT much money.
What competition? This anon:
said it's 250-400 rounds per match for USPSA.
Depends on the club I guess. Some folks just go harder.
if its a local club match they're usually only about 5 stages. imo unless you want to be a turbo gamer the local matches are the only ones you should be going to
My USPSA club literally has an informal 22lr division. However, it's mostly people running their 10/22s and AR15's with 22lr conversions. They started doing it when ~~*Covid*~~ dropped and ammo and ammo supplies were unobtanium.
Depends on the club. On mine we normally shoot long stages. 6x30 = 180. If you go to an event every week, you're shooting 720 rounds a month. Some poorgays can't spend that money, and that's not even considering match fees and everything else associated with getting to the event.
Steel challenge matches, they even allow .22lr rifles. While not as much movement, it's still good practice.
I've always wanted to try some type of competitive shooting but I don't like talking to people
You don't have to. My autistic ass just grunts and bumps into people and stares.
Just get some targets and a shot timer, and set up your own stages to shoot solo.
I just came here to say that at the very least competitions get amateurs (like me) outside and shooting.
I'm no great shot, especially compared to some of the others I shoot with, but I expect I'm better than the "average" gun owner just by shooting my guns twice a month under a modicum of pressure.
Don't be afraid to at least try it
Thanks anon, but since the average gun owner hardly ever goes to the range, you're probably far above average.
Heres the dirty little secret -- competition shooting will make you better at shooting than 99% of gun owners in only a month or two, and if you keep doing it even longer you will be miles above your average gun owner. They are also the safest gun owners in the world because they get penalized heavily and disqualified if they arent. Once youve been competiting for a few months you will absolutely cringe at the average persons gun safety, including ex military etc
>because they get penalized heavily and disqualified if they arent
this. i got DQ'd at my first match because my gun just barely left 180. they take that shit super seriously and once you're out, you're out for the whole match so definitely enough incentive to learn your lesson.
Not particularly fun, all my experience with USPSA matches had ranges run by fricking autistic boomers. Other matches I've been to that haven't had shit venues were boring stages tuned more for race guns than stock pistols which meant they ended up being flat. Scored somewhat middling but would have preferred my time and 5 hours driving been spent at the flat range practicing.
Also tried IDPA and they wouldn't let me compete with the specific vest I had on because a little sliver of my holster peered through the bottom but people who had guns clearly visible were fine.
Yeah, you might just be too young for old guys to want to let you into their insular groups. They do this a lot.
This whole thread gives a really good answer as to why
/k/ is a bunch of fatass larping morons who know they will get btfo and place last if they show up at a competition. this will break their delusion that they are better than others at this hobby because theyve memorized all the finishes of bolt carrier groups and what's not good to go and will get you killed in the streets because of an arfcom post from 2018
I had no idea there were so many GMs on /k/
>t. There aren't
Did anyone here even claim they were? Like even one person?
They sure talk like they are
Only competitions I really have a problem with are the short range mag dumpy ones for long guns that try to come off as practical when the only practical situation they're close to simulating is going on a mass shooting. Particularly the shotgun ones where people get into ridiculous mods to be competitive.
I don't like other people, and I don't trust other people with firearms around me.
Also, rules are gay.
This thread is an absolute shitshow loaded with misconceptions.
I'm Carry Optics A class. Here's what USPSA can do for you:
1. Gives you an objective, brutal, uncompromising standard to judge yourself against purely based on speed and accuracy (you're not likely to run into any of the more complex scoring rules outside of classifiers, and classifiers generally don't matter that much)
2. If you don't have access to an outdoor range, it gives you a public, easy way to show up, do full 160 degree transitions, move and shoot, and work on the clock under the supervision of other people who are probably better than you and can give you real advice for improvement.
3. It forces you to shoot a series of CoFs which you didn't design, on the clock, and cold. You can't retry it over and over again because you fricked it up- you have to actually perform on demand. At a normal range it's easy to shoot a drill ten times and cherry pick your best run to make you feel better about yourself, but at a match if you frick something up, that's your score.
4. You'll meet other people who are serious about guns and shooting in an environment where it's easy to make friends and back each other up. The USPSA community (here in MN at least) is fricking outstanding and extremely welcoming. I've made a ton of friends I wouldn't have otherwise met, dudes who had my back and helped me out when one of my guns got stolen, for example.
5. It'll give you a much more realistic picture of the actual performance you're capable of. It's easy to shoot a drill, hit a par time, and decide you're good- getting beaten at a USPSA match will show you the level of performance which is actually humanly possible, it'll show you how much faster and more accurate it's actually possible to BE. That's rough at the start but exciting as you get deeper into it.
Pretty much any 9mm or more powerful handgun can be shot in USPSA. Shoot a match, embrace that you probably suck, and start on the path to less suck
I ran out of characters.
Common criticisms and responses:
>it's expensive to have a competitive gun
For the first year+ of shooting competition, your gun doesn't matter at all. I shot a pretty basic Beretta 92 for my first year and a half of USPSA and it didn't hold me back at all. Holsters, belts and mag pouches are things you should have already, and a basic "battle belt" setup will work fine for a long, long time.
>It'll get you kilt in da streets!
X-Ray Alpha, a legit delta guy and USPSA GM, disagrees with you. Delta and SWAT brings in dudes like Ben Stoeger all the time to teach them shooting. USPSA won't give you a true tactical overview, but it is an extremely strong way to train actual shooting and moving. It's a valuable piece of the puzzle if your goal is to be good at gunfighting. Obviously no one discipline or skill is going to cover you 100%, but being on the clock is pretty good for ratcheting up the stress level.
>the community is hostile
It's really, really not. Dudes will only be hostile if you do some crazy stupid unsafe shit. I sucked mega ass at my first match and guys were still super supportive and helpful.
>there's all kinds of bullshit safety rules
A safe range is a safe range. The safety stuff becomes second nature once you learn it, and violations are extraordinarily rare. I've been ROing for a couple of years now and I've only had to DQ two people (one person was a newbie who drew while there were people downrange, the other was a dropped gun.)
Take it as seriously or unseriously as you want, get as gamer or ungamer as you want, but USPSA (or 2-gun, or 3-gun) are all valuable training tools, if your fragile-ass baby ego can handle it. Get out there and shoot. DBAP
Wow, are all USPSA shooters this much into themselves? Wow just wow. Yeah you guys aren't making me want to join.
here's your >(you)
Thanks but not thanks sweetie
Aren't classifiers the only way to get ranked in USPSA? They sound important to me.
Classification just lets you compete against other people of your (rough) skill level. If you're just shooting to train shooting, and not to chase the magical GM label, then they don't really matter, and they definitely don't matter for your first 6 months.
Because we can't aim for shit and have to compensate with gucci gear for queers.
For the rest of you non-US guys here, check out IPSC in your local country. Chances are there is some sort of IPSC shooting there going on, you just don't know it.
Yes, it's probably quite boomery, but it's still more fun than sitting at home complaining about not shooting or not having guns.
You will be a euro gun owner. You will shoot matches.
ipsc.org