Why do Ukrainians ask NATO for F-16 and not for Gripens? Wouldn't Gripens be more suitable for that type of missions that Ukrainians want to accomplish and much easier to maintain? Just ask Sweden for a dozen or two and let the US send some of its F-16s to Sweden before SAAB makes new planes, no?
There are hundreds of surplus F-16s that are laying around with a giant supply of spare parts and commonality, as well as the chance to keep asking for gibs to the block 52+ or even V variants.
The Ukranians no doubt use these, but they also are slavs so they do graft and theft. They can turn around and sell the donated parts on the penny and still make pure profit to other operators within the region, simply citing excess capacity.
The Grippen does not have the logistical footprint, upgrade path, or availability of raw surplus.
>a dozen or two
Thats nothing. Denmark alone could deliver +40 F16s if they wanted. gets it.
Tempo
Romania and Poland operate F-16s, so they have neighbouring countries running the necessary infrastructure to maintain and support their operations. That's what truly matters.
They asked, Sweden said no. There's barely any Gripens.
Ukraine would have to get in line with the F-16s, and they are a stupidly expensive platform these days.
F/A-18's however...
Any source Any source on why Sweden said no? Legitimately interested to know why cause the impression I got is that they're desperate for ANYONE to order Gripens. All I can find is Swedish officials saying" there's no plans to" without elaborating much.
https://eurasiantimes.com/no-saab-gripens-for-ukraine-sweden-jas-39-fighter/
also, sweden wants people to buy it, and not give it for free, and even "selling" them to ukraine could interfere with future sales for countries that are aligned with russia, like brazil
Let F-18 go out with a bang
this
send the OG Hornets to glory
Let those cracked airframes shudder in anticipation of splashing Soviet metal
No one wants the Griphen
>no one
>2nd most produced 4th gen single-engine fighter
that means nothing. There’s only one single engine 4th gen that matters
>literally have to pay people to take them
It was over before it began, Sweden is too small to compete. They should just sell the rest of Saab to the Chinese.
Ok Wang
>270 gripens delivered
>over 3000 F16s
If we run a 1 mile foot race and I finish in 6 minutes while you are 40 minutes behind you are in second place but hardly could be considered competitive.
>4th gen
in an era where 4.5 gen is a word and an alternative
>2nd most
>4th gen
>single engine
>2nd most produced jet in this highly specific category
anyways guess who is first by a large margin?
guess which countries can easily afford donating/selling their jets and which of the two they operate?
bait
It's 4th place behind J-10 (700+ built) and Mirage 2000 (600 built).
then why did ukraine say they want gripens
At the moment ukraine kinda wants everything
or it could be that the gripen is very well suited for the type of war ukraine is in right now
Absolutely fucking not. There's no such thing as a fighter that's easy to upkeep but the Gripen would require significantly more dedicated industrial infrastructure to be set up within Ukraine before they could effectively operate them.
Lazerpig doesn't understand jets and neither do you. If you're gonna come here and quote his opinions verbatim you should stick to the ones he did his research on, ie ww2 era tanks.
Ukraine is kind of like a desperate whore right now.
brazil is buying 40 of them. they all comment about their hype on all the dcs videos it shows up in
The Brazil purchase dates back to the Dilma Roussef administration, that's ancient fucking history.
why would sweden ever agree to that?
because gripens don't exist and F-16s do
What was flying above my hometown a while ago then?
Not a gripen. unless you’re in an absolute 3rd world country. Gripens are universally known to be garbage.
OH SHIT SOMETHING JUST FLEW PAST RIGHT OVER YOUR HOUSE
Why do people prefer windows over mac?
>Why do Ukrainians ask NATO for F-16 and not for Gripens?
as others have pointed out, they have asked.
to add to why they aren't getting them, the Swedes have brain damage.
Ukraine wanted to license production of the Gripen and then the nordic cucks backed out when 2014 happened.
Unironically the war could have been a different story if they hadn't been such worthless fucks.
As expected of swedes.
t. finn
Imagine poco rosso but its about a spurdo as a Finnish ace during the winter war. I think that'd be pretty neat.
Also, this thread kinda sucks and is terrible uwu. Can we have a thread about the air war during the winter war instead? I think it's a pretty cool topic. Picrel is one of 18 Blenheim bombers produced under license for the Finnish air force.
here's one of their hawker hurricanes. They actually had quite a few british aircraft, a lot of which were ordered after the war began. I guess the bongs had the scoop on gommunism pretty early on. That or the eternal anglo knows no allegiance, only coin and conflict.
As you might be able to tell by previous pics, the finns couldn't maintain control over the skies enough to stop the ruskies from attack their airfields, so a lot of the air force actually set up on makeshift airfields like frozen lakes and waged a sort of guerilla air war from them.
The americans also got in on the action, here's a brewster 239. They also had 1 (one) DC-2 cargo plane.
And finally, here's a fiat g-50. They were supposed to have 50 of them, but war broke out before they could have them all successfully beought into the country.
There were also a lot of french aircraft and a few from various other countries, but that's enough for now.
forgor g50, whoops.
>Plans to launch the licensed production of Swedish-designed Jas‑39 Gripen fighters in Lviv, mulling since 2014, eventually ended in nothing.
>The only purchase made so far was of 12 Turkish Bayrakatar strike drones in late 2018. They have just been delivered, and are not yet in service.
https://www.kyivpost.com/post/7027
I don't if I should laugh or cry
Fucking Swedes
Sweden and Germany had a de-facto arms embargoes on Ukraine between 2014 and 2021.
Most European countries wouldn't even sell weapons to Ukraine but sold $400M to Russia.
>Ukraine wanted to license production of the Gripen and then the nordic cucks backed out when 2014 happened.
Take your meds NAFO-chud and go fuck yourself while you are at it. Regardless of the Ukraine-Russia conflict, Ukraine has always been one of the most corrupt shitholes in the world to deal with which is why Israel (via IWI) pulled out of the country as well. No one wants to deal with a country where the level of corruption is unbearable for a company to deal with and one where there is little money to be made.
>won't sell to Ukraine because muh corruption
>sells to commie-ran Brazil
We offered them a deal they'd be crazy to refuse. We funded a large part of the Gripen E's development and our purchases are keeping the production lines open while Sweden also receives theirs and prepares their Gripen Cs and Ds to be upgraded with the Gripen E's electronics and software.
>russoid wants to talk about corruption
Your dogshit performance in this war you started is all down to the horrific, omnipresent and systemic corruption that plagues your country at every single level of society. Your culture is more accepting of corruption and lying than any other on the planet, an entire country full of liars, cheats, thieves, rapists, drug addicts, and drunks, all of whom are desperately poor in comparison to their western neighbors. The tiny amount of people who do have money in russia are oil executives, and they use most of their money finding ways to spend the least amount of time in russia as possible. In truth, russia is an african nation in all senses except geography, and in some cases even african nations are better off.
One of the reasons you attacked ukraine is you saw them slowly fixing the russian style problems you forced upon them, and you couldn't bear to see them improving their lives and standard of living. Accusing ukraine of being more corrupt than russia is just a sad joke. You are in a state of eternal cope that will exist for as long as the russian state does. You refuse to change your ways, so now your ways are destroying you, making you more irrelevant day by day as ukrainians use western weapons to gradually exterminate your young male population. Dozens and dozens of young russian men are dying everyday in ukraine, and those who aren't currently dying are destroying their souls by conducting themselves exactly like their mongol ancestors did.
You didn't fail to adapt; you refused to. Russia is doomed. You earned this fate.
I hate you. There were 271 Gripens (of all models) delivered. Where they fuck will ones for Ukraine come from since those are old and worn out?
There were 4600 F-16s made with more than 3000 still in current use.
>There were 271 Gripens (of all models) delivered. Where they fuck will ones for Ukraine come from since those are old and worn out?
Like I said, let Sweden give ~20 Gripens to Ukraine and let the US give Sweden 20 F-16, if Sweden is so afraid of its Air Force being weakened by donating 10% of their fighters.
but they only have 71?
Then you have a doubled logistics trail, double maintenance training, weapons and so on. that would be a huge waste and a pain in the ass.
The US needs to give them 4 squadrons, 96 aircraft and some trainer aircraft.
71 active E models
there are some leased to Hungary
don't know if the Brazilian output adds to the total
but there are scores of Cs Sweden doesn't want to spend money to upgrade right now.
uhmm no
https://www.saab.com/newsroom/stories/2019/december/first-swedish-gripen-e-is-airborne
And you think they have delivered 69 new E models into active service since then?
lol, lmao even
The Swedish Airforce is not what you think it is.
I was making a point retard, Im not the other guy, I just complemented my post here
Considering you can't even get your quotes right don't be surprised people don't get the point of your vague ass posts.
Retard.
Why not just give the 20 F-16s to Ukraine directly instead of this retarded musical chairs game of logistics?
Also:
Because the f-16 is infinitely better
the f-16 isn't swedish and therefore doesn't come with a somalian man assraping you while you fly
seething amerilards
The lards won by having a better plane
gripen my dick lmao
Caught me off guard and I audibly chuckled
EU is too cucked and afraid.
The point of F-16 among all is to unlock fighter jets, just like US unlocked Leos by promising 4 Abrams (and never delivering).
this thread is a lesson in why Perun is sometimes retarded. Sweden (not NATO) dont have enough gripen to give away, and even then it is a niche aircraft with niche logistics and servicemen. it would be a headache for all involved if it were donated and would arguably lessen the pressure on the US to provide more capabable aircraft. why does anyone think ukraine are asking for f-type fighters, because logistics and maintenance are literally on their border, and 10 fighters are going to do shit when they need 100
He postulated the Gripen may theoretically be better, but he also pointed out that there are way more F16s/18s and they are available essentially ASAP (provided you have pilots). he points out the narrowly better use case is all
American military technology is factually better than any other nation. Why fucking bother buying Europeans unless you're poor?
Ukraine is pretty poor
>still thinking this whole thing isn't one giant money laundering operation for ~~*political oligarchs*~~ and their underage brothels in Eastern Europe
I bet you think we brought "freedom and democracy after the Cold War" (and that's a Good Thing!)
F-16s and their spare parts are plentiful, and they're in the process of being replaced by F-35s in many countries, so there are a lot of jets with some hours left in their usable lifespans.
We’re not buying your fucking plane swedtard
Really they need F-35s because any non-stealth air frame will be quite limited in what it can do and sorties will require a lot of coordination that is difficult to pull off.
Or the B2 or B-21 so they can just bomb right through air defenses.
F-16s are superior. Don’t let those Swedes swindle you with their meatballs and their flat pack furniture, anyone who can afford the F-16 buys the superior option.
>anyone who can afford the F-16
F16 is actually cheaper than Gripen by wide margin. Nobody choose Gripen over F16 unless you want to play pretend building your own fighters.
Because the US is the only nation willing to perform maintenance and repairs for gear being sent. If they got Grippens they’d fly a few sorties and then be grounded due to lack of maintenance.
Gripen has US engines and other parts. The US can block the sale of Gripen. And that's exactly what they do
You can have ukranians with Texan accents pilot f16s, and ukranians with polish accents repairing them.
>You can have ukranians with Texan accents pilot f16s, and ukranians with polish accents repairing them.
This. The USSR taught their pilots Korean and made them speak Korean over comms so that they could fight in the skies over Korea while maintaining "plausible" deniability. Why the fuck can't we do the same in Ukraine?
Because you could play that game in the 1950s, that shit doesn't fly any more
>Because you could play that game in the 1950s, that shit doesn't fly any more
Says who? Vatmorons?
Why are swedoids so desperate to sell these shits?
we probably won't be in the future cause now that the swedish government is rearming they're pouring more funds than ever into the thing
just recently I heard they're trying to get a few more freshly produced Gripens (airframes and everything)
We really aren't, other then that many of us would like to see a relevant number for our own airforce again.
Mostly it's a handful of cringe tards spamming it online every chance they get, followed by a bigger crowd of screeching Brazilian cheerleaders that think it's the greatest plane since the invention of jet engines just because huehue land got them.
Gripen will never compete against F-16 on a level playing field even if the F model is sort of sneaking closer little by little.
And if they ever do end up being direct 1:1 market competitors the US can still pull the plug on exports anyway like mentioned:
How important is Saab to the Swedish economy overall? Will there be a big ripple effect if Saab stops making jets?
They have a substantial part of local economies (sub contractors and some parts manufacturing) in a number of cities and industrial towns, but Saab Aeronautics department isn't in of itself a major part of the Swedish economy.
Any loss of export industry is obviously going to be negative but the biggest negative would likely be in the contracts they hold to the Swedish armed forces.
Why take part of the income from a trade deal when you can take all of it if a foreign product ends up being a direct competitor to yours?
It's just basic economy.
This also allows the US to be very selective about who gets access to their technology.
If the Gripen is still using American components, why should they even bother killing it. If it gets sold, America still profits from it. F-16 or Gripen, it's a win-win for the MIC either way.
t. Saab sale executive.
No bias detected.
Sweden doesn't have any Gripens they can spare and they have zero interest in operating F-16s. However, if the wealthier NATO members would be willing to make a donation to Ukraine, Sweden would be more than willing to make new Gripen Cs and Ds for Ukraine. I wouldn't consider giving them Gripens E or F since these are more expensive to acquire.
why doesn't China provide Russia J-10s?
there's something elegant about a single engine fighter.
For the simple fact that there are not enough Gripens in the world.
>tfw swedes can't make up their mind about a next generation fighter since they can't accept the Gripen is dogshit