Why do so many anons feel threatened by the idea of only using phone apps to navigate while hiking?
Why do so many anons feel threatened by the idea of only using phone apps to navigate while hiking?
Why do so many anons feel threatened by the idea of only using phone apps to navigate while hiking?
One time I was outside and I thought I saw a black Black creature but it turned out to be a dead tree. Phew. Navigation maps are neat.
Well, why do so many zoomies find having a cell phone in their face 100% of the time essential?
Zoomers btfo! Maybe if these snowflakes cared less about their pronouns and avocado toast they’d have time to learn how to read a map and stop renting apartments.
Because phones get cold and die
don't we all
in extreme cold maybe but for most conditions they are fine
Not extreme cold
Normal cold
My phone has died enough times on campouts to know that you're full of shit
never had my phone die from cold weather, again if you live in a crazy polar climate maybe, but for most people a phone is totally fine
Put it in airplane mode.
I get about 4 days out of mine and I’ve had it since 2019. Just put it in airplane mode and stop playing games or watching porn or whatever you do.
you can easily bring battery backups with you
this is a bot FYI
Literally posts this same garbage in every thread
>ree just spend 10x as much on batteries that last 1/4 as long
Here is my favorite lie this shill always tells:
Reee all cellphones have the same GPS antenna and all those antennas are good I swear
backup batteries don't cost much money at all
We have cheap ones with our company logo printed on the side that we give away at trade shows.
>Fesses up to being a cellphone shill
not shocked at all
>Doesn't know how to manually navigate
>Gives shit advice and spams PrepHole with celltardation
How much do they pay you to lie on PrepHole about your shitty products?
We’re not a cellphone company. I work in metrology. These things just happen to be extremely cheap and don’t “cost 10x’s as much” (whatever that means).
I can buy a 24 pack of AA batteries that will last me years for 4 dollars.
That is pennies on the dollar compared to a cellphone backup battery.
Well that proves that we can’t take battery packs for our phones because they’re too cost prohibitive.
You won!
no, celltard tells a shotgun blast of lies
The battery lie is just one of them. First time in a navigation thread?
No, Anon, you won the argument. It’s over. You said battery packs “cost 10x’s as much” then showed how cheap AA’s are, thereby proving that no one can actually afford a backup Li-ion battery pack.
Q.E.D. celltards. You’ll all a bunch of liars who need cell towers and clear skies because the GPS chip in your phone is only accurate to 12m instead of 2m.
I love that there's months and months of schizo paper map internet defense force comments that led this particular comment.
I will say, cell phone companies NEVER made it clear when they added GPS chips to their phones in fricking 2009-2010 that these chips worked without any cell service. They could have advertised that capacity but they didn't. It was marketed as A-GPS and made it sound like it needed cell tower connections to work. And, if you do try hiking WITHOUT PUTTING YOUR PHONE INTO AIRPLANE MODE FIRST, and you have low but persistent cell coverage, it can frick it up.
I mean yeah, maybe if you are still using a smartphone from 2014 that was cheap when you bought it might not work well but I think anything from the last 3-4 years is gonna be ok.
Wrong, cellshart liar.
In order for your phone (which no one can afford a backup battery for because they cost 10x’s as much) to work and receive a passive GPS signal it has to be able to communicate with a cell tower for some reason.
Also phones are extremely fragile and break super easily.
>Straw man
yes, you insist on lying about everything
We've established that.
So, I call you out on backups being more expensive and not lasting as long--an argument you cant win--so you have to come up with an argument I didn't make and pretend that's what I said.
Thanks for continuing to demonstrate you're disingenuous liar.
This is exactly what I want people to understand when they're talking to cellphone shills--digamous liars.
Keep proving me right.
Average lifespan of a cellphone battery is 2 to 3 years--that would cost me around 6 to 12 bucks in AA batteries for 3 years of battery life.
>https://www.blackview.hk/blog/guides/smartphone-battery-lifespan
>Extreme temperatures can negatively impact battery performance and lifespan. High temperatures accelerate chemical reactions within the battery, leading to faster degradation. It is advisable to avoid exposing smartphones to excessive heat or cold, as it can cause irreversible damage to the battery.
Cellphone shill loves lying about batteries.
If you hike in a polar climate, or somewhere with 80+ inches of rain a year, or other extreme environments, I definitely agree that you should be looking into a standalone GPS. For everyone else, a phone works much better because it's easier to use and the software is much better. Garmin has a monopoly on standalone GPS devices and has barely updated anything in years.
Paper maps are cumbersome and limited whereas a phone can show a broader area in case you end up somewhere you didn't think you would go. If you enjoy paper maps cuz of whatever and that works for you, great, fine, but for most people, figuring out an app on their phone is gonna be the best solution.
I work outside, I have had my cellphone die from the cold in temps like -3 C, and it takes sometimes multiple days for the battery to begin working again. You're gonna get noobs killed with your talking out of your ass
I've never ever had my phone stop working due to temperature. Do you keep it tucked in your jacket pocket most of the time?
I'm not even suggesting like you hold your phone out and stare at it the whole time, only if the path is unsure or there's a turn etc. and then put it right back in your warm pocket and put your hand on it
works for me
I *will* admit that I don't hike much below 25F or so, but honestly I think that's a lot of people here.
Also, was the phone you had that froze shitty/older?
Yeah I keep it in my jacket most of the time. I don't use it for navigation but to take photos. But the point being made is that people should use it for navigating instead of buying a standalone gps, isn't it? It's a bad idea. I've had this happen with cheap android phones and an iphone
Were these phones recent or was this 10 years ago?
Yep, recently, I don't understand why this is hard for people to understand. Batteries chemical reactions stop working when they are cold
Why can my car start when it’s 20°F outside? Do Teslas just totally quit in those temps?
In really cold climates people actually plug in their combustion engine cars into a block heater because they won't start. I don't own an electric vehicle but I doubt they would function well in polar climates
Electric car performance goes way down in cold weather. You have to pre-heat your car and you won't get as much power. Tessela tells you to basically leave it plugged in when it's cold out. The batteries also don't last as long in cold climates.
I ride electric bikes when it is cold, they definitely do not work as well and are especially sluggish right at the start, but they still work down to ~ 15-20F. I agree, if you live in a crazy extreme cold environment and hike a lot in those temps, maybe a phone won't work, but shit, at least try it. The idea that you NEED paper maps or a Garminshit for most situations because it won't work without a cell signal is silly. They are sturdy (with a case) and waterproof now.
People that are skilled at navigatoin--of which I know many--will tell you that cellpones are fine if you're trail hiking (most of the time) but if you go off trail a cellphone is a horable idea for a primary navigation method.
This seems so simple but celltards will never ever admit it even though there are endless stories about hikers getting lost because they relied on the smartphones and didn't know shit about navigation.
Tech is an augmentation to the skill--it doesn't replace it.
I just think people should have some redundancies, I use a gps and compass at work and have a paper map in case something goes wrong, and a cell phone most of the time and often a satphone
Just pick two and you'll most likely be okay
what do you think happens off trail with a cell phone? I've used my phone both to go off trail on purpose and to navigate back to the trail when I accidentally went the wrong way.
You can't even precisely articulate what you think happens with a cell phone once you are off the trail. It still shows your position even if you are not on a visually displayed .gpx file or other graphical representation of your intended path. It still shows the background layer of map and where you are on that.
Like shit, I wish Garmin had competitors and wasn't shitty software and overprices, but it is, and using paper maps is silly because they can't tell you your position instantly like a phone can. You won't acknowledge this is a huge advantage.
And if you have to somehow change your route, you need a new paper map, whereas you can download new offline maps to your phone if you have cell service.
Once your off trail your out of reach of cell towers so your phone stops working.
Sucks to suck. L2 Navigate.
Huh? The cell towers magically reach the trail but can't when you stray off it? LOL WHAT
Dude, I've been in wilderness many times with absolutely no cell signal whatsoever and the phone GPS works fine.
cope
This isn't true and never was my argument.
Cellphones, in network, use the cell towers AND gps to locate a phone--that's why they can somewhat keep up with dedicated GPS while they have cell coverage.
Once a cellphone leaves the network it can ONLY use the gis antenna and in most phones the GIS antenna is total shit and will take forever to track and have much less accuracy.
Oh hey, tell us where you out?
>GPS works fine where I am
Tell us anon, where do you out?
>the GIS antenna is total shit and will take forever to track and have much less accuracy
works fine for me
Imcellgays can’t understand this. They think having a gps antenna that’s accurate to 12m is good enough. And they all lie about how quickly their phones show their locations (because they’re gays). I don’t have an extra five seconds to sit and wait for a phone to show my location. I use a paper map because i can find my location instantly.
Out of network cellpones can be off as much as 1k.
There are two main differences between a cellphone and a dedicated GPS:
1) Cellphone GIS antennas will always be smaller compared to hand held, dedicated, GPS systems.
2) The receiver portion that calculates location doesn't run continuously on a cellphone. The receiver in a cellphone does duty-cycling to preserve battery and that compounds any locational error--which is very common on even "expensive" cellphones.
Yeah, exactly! Cellgays BTFO! I tried using my cellphone and this EACTLY what I found. My position was off by 1k and for whatever reason my phone was duty cycling. All of the people who post their routes from AllTrails while claiming their phones were in airplane mode because celltards are liars. They lie. They don’t tell the truth.
1k
Duty cycles.
Hours to find your position and when you do it’s incorrect.
1k at the least; it can be a lot more than that. And airplane mode doesn’t do anything because of duty cycles. Phone idiots just keep on losing.
haven't had any issues locking position quickly myself, have you tried ensuring airplane mode is on?
That wasn’t your position, liar. It was way off.
Totally agree, Anon. Everyone knows cellphone GPS reception is shit even on clear days because GPS waves can’t penetrate leaves.
I mean yeah REALLY cold, I agreed if you hike in a polar climate a phone might not work, but just for slightly below freezing that shouldn't frick it up.
> it has to be able to communicate with a cell tower
no it doesn't I've used my phone in plenty of wilderness areas with no cell towers anywhere nearby
>Also phones are extremely fragile and break super easily.
the new iphone is titanium and if you have a phone without a case and a screen protector you are stupid
I've never once had my phone shut down while hiking.
I should say I've also had this happen to me with a Garmin etrek but it's much easier to replace the batteries when you're out on those and a couple of AAs dont add much weight
I have a galaxy s23 and i took it out of my inside jacket pocket in ~-10c /15 f on saturday just to take a few pictures on a short hike with my dogs and lost ~45% of my battery life just from that
This is 100 % a lie
Paper maps are significantly better because you can view more area all at once.
If you need anything other than a grid from a cellphone you have no business going off trail.
Celltard won't be honest my dude. There is no way they'll ever admit any of the multiple issues using cellphones to navigate.
>nooo how dare you derail a /bot/ thread trying to sell shitty cellpone products
lol
lamo--stay mad shill.
Cellphone shill continues to shit up PrepHole
Threadly reminder OP doesn't know anything about navigation and no one who knows anything about navigation uses a cellphone off trail.
you don't have to know anything, you just look at the screen and it tells you where to go
>I don't know anything about navigation but give advice on navigation
It is sad that there are people dumb enough to actually believe a moron like you.
I was on the fence about the whole thing but you’re such an unhinged homosexual I’m going to listen to the phone Chads.
Which app should I use to piss off these map fruitcakes the most?
alltrails
Yes, you're a cellphone shill--stop pretending you aren't.
>If I lie about the point that was being made I can double down on being dishonest
That wasn't the point I made you disingenuous bot
Avena maps is my go to. It has different interesting ones too rather then plain topo. Google maps or earth ofc for satelite
Don't you mean Avenza ?
yeah, sorry
I use it and I like it, good for measures and elevations
I like Alltrails, it has a dedicated map layer that often has overlooks, waterfalls, trails, and roads that other maps don't have. You can see the dedicated map layer online from your home computer for free without paying, you just can't look at it on your phone with no cell service without paying.
I wouldn't say "threatened" so much as "disinterested"
Every map out there has been digitized with GPS data interlaced on it. The USGS uses this format. Whatever paper map you’re using, you can use a phone (or whatever) with the exact same map.
Years ago the excuse was “I don’t have a smart phone,” but now even $50 burners have GPS and can support whatever apps are out there.
Phone based GPS only became reliable somewhat recently. Many people continue to think that phones rely on cell tower connections for location.Not the case anymore. However, I should point out that phones can have pretty lousy satellite reception in heavily wooded areas.I learned this first hand over the summer.Battery life can be another issue with phones.
If it's heavily raining you're screwed big , I learnt it the hard way (but I guess it's barely different than with paper maps). It also acts as an antenna for lightning.
Outside of that, phones are amazing for navigation. Only downside is that it takes out the pleasure of navigating by instinct or without GPS
How will you orient yourself with a map if it’s raining heavily and you can’t see landmarks?
Either go slow and use closer landmarks, or hunker down and wait
Just use a compass duh. Or poi close to you : river, trail, summit, building etc
if you're out and about in conditions that poor honestly you fricked up somewhere
>just stay inside when it’s raining
That’s exactly what I do because my map will get wet.
>what are waterproof map cases
Yes, that’s what I use. It’s clear so I can read my map when it’s raining, unlike phone inputs who can’t do that at all.
>If it's heavily raining you're screwed big
Yeah, my screen interprets raindrops as touches and goes crazy.
>It also acts as an antenna for lightning.
Boomer myth.
I don't. Oruxmaps is fricking amazing, best money I've ever spent. I make my own offline topographic maps of the area I'm going to explore, import them on Orux, load my track and various waypoints.
Because they don't want to feel inferior to chads from older generations who didn't need to use wireless phones as a navigational crutch in the wilderness
I have a friend who swears that technology makes us worse navigators and never used it but then he’ll get us lost driving to the next town over because he has a poor sense of direction.
It's not a crutch it enables me to navigate much more efficiently.
there has been plenty of threads like this along the years and basically the gist of it is that if you are under 30 years old or spend your childhood outside of northern europe or you never had a father you as an adult have no idea how to use compass and map
they dont teach these things at schools anymore even in europe
>millions of people use their phones to hike
>they are all lost
Yes you're an insincere liar--thanks for the reminder.
At no point did anyone say not to use cellphones on established trails.
Your obsession with lying is truly incredible--thanks for demonstrating that cell shills lie as easily as breathing.
I don't know anyone who uses a non laminated or non waterproof map.
where do you out?
Obviously you won't answer because your a massive liar and this is just one more thing you won't be honest about.
>where do you out?
Who talks like this?
>Obviously you won't answer
He won’t answer because no matter what he says it’s the wrong answer. California? Lol Caligay. PNW? Lol westcoastie. New England? Lol elevationlet, it’s just hills. And so on. Then you’ll be demanding proof, which of course will never be good enough.
You’re a newbie. Everyone else knows exactly how this game works.
>asking where you PrepHole on out
everyone
now answer the question
>The wrong answer
try telling the truth. The only thing it's testing is your honesty: and you're failing miserably at that test.
I PrepHole in Washington, Idaho, Korea, Colorado, Montana and I've even been to Afghanistan and a bunch of neighboring countries--all on paper maps and I never got lost.
The only one playing a game is you. You enjoy lying, that's the only conclusion I can reach given the amount of dishonesty you and the other cell shills demonstrate.
Yeah he’s definitely lying. I never said anything about hiking in trails, just that phones are useless when doing that because they can be off by 1k and the batteries don’t last long enough and you need cell coverage to really use one.
Everyone is such a liar.
Most of the popular hiking trails--especially on the east coast where 80% of the US population lives--have cell coverage. Almost all of europe has cell coverage: ffs I had cell coverage when literally everywhere in Switzerland and I did a ton of back country.
Yes, they don’t know where they are (off by at least 1k) because of how terrible the GIS antennas in their phones are and because of duty cycles killing their batteries because of reasons
apps are better than paper maps
no, they aren't
You don't get to make this claim because you don't know how to navigate using a paper map.
I don't need to know how. My app works fine.
>I'm pretending to be an expert on something I clearly know nothing about
and that is why no one respects your opinion and you deserve mockery
>said his apps have always worked good bough for him
>this is “claiming to be an expert”
I’m going to continue to listen to the guy who claims to have navigated Afghanistan using a paper map instead of whatever GPS units the military uses.
wrong LiAR
You can’t look at your app and see where you are because it takes too long and even when you get a signal it will be exactly 1k off. That’s if your battery has managed to last more than a day (which it won’t because of duty cycles).
I know because this happened to everyone’s battery when I was hiking in Afghanistan.
I can look at a map and see something several miles away relative to myself and use it to estimate my position in seconds.
On a cellphone I either have to zoom way out -- making the map unreadable because it's so small or I have to "slide" over to the feature I'm looking at and thus losing my position relative to the feature I'm looking at.
It's like comparing a smart watch to a 40 inch TV. Except the smart watch is delicate as frick, unreliable, and has shitty batteries where the 40 inch TV weighs nothing and has infinite battery life.
And Ed exactly! Anyone who claims otherwise is a liar. This is obvious, as they would still be lost due to lack of cell towers and the 1k error due to duty cycles.
I too can see though heavy tree coverage and pinpoint my exact location to within a few feet instantaneously, faster than someone can pull out a phone and turn it on and wait an hour for a GPS signal.
I rarely have to look at a map anymore. Once you get good at manual navigation (maps and compasses) your sense of direction and ability to self locate becomes almost a secondary habit. Even when driving places I've found that the people that use Cellphones are totally lost without it. Whenever I drive somewhere new I look up the map on my computer--draw the important turns and landmarks by hand and don't even need a phone.... hell, just drawing the map makes me almost memorize it and I almost never even have to look at the map when I drive somewhere... I do it from memory.
you cannot use GPS without electricity
you can use map & compass without electricity
you should be ashamed of yourself if you cannot use map & compass and never even tried
Agreed! Batteries only last a few hours (because of the duty cycles) and it’s already well established that literally no one can afford the 10x’s more expensive battery packs.
Using your phone while PrepHole drains the battery quickly because it's trying to find signal.
Yes! It’s a duty cycles. Once again celltards will lie and talk about airplane mode because they claim to be experts on navigation.
if only there were a way to bring extra batteries and a charging cord!
You can’t. No one can. It’s well established that battery banks cost 10x’s as much.
but I already have one, so it's sort of a sunk cost
I literally cannot read a paper map and my phone works fine.
>you need to find 3 landmarks and triangulate them while walking
lol
>zoomerspeak
>incapable of doing something without being attached to electronics
Many such cases
Boomer incapable of change.
Imagine my shock. Tell us more about the marvels of your external frame backpack you fricking weirdo. What kind of 50+ year old man carries on an internet argument with people half his age for this long? I know it’s PrepHole so everyone’s a little off but seriously, wtf?
I'm a millennial and that was my first post.
>What kind of 50+ year old man carries on an internet argument with people half his age for this long?
>PrepHole
>but seriously, wtf?
Good bait, if not, go back to tiktok.
Because its bad practice if we're talking "only".
What if it dies. Pretty simple but serious concern.
backup battery
what if you lose/drop the paper map?
Then youre moronic. The main difference here is that you + a map completely relies on your ability to not be moronic. You + a phone completely relies on your phone doing the work/working.
no there's lots of details with the phone you have to know which maps to download and have the right layers for the right places and sometimes you have to draw your own routes or find them various places online if they aren't in the main database
it's a skill of its own
I have a (separate) beacon but um newer phones can call SOS via satellite on their own now
>newer phones can call SOS via satellite on their own now
Damn, that's crazy
>no
You dont understand what im saying. With maps you rely on your skills functioning, with electronics, you rely on them functioning.
Also youre making it sound complicated. Getting maps, making routes and waypoints, etc. Is not difficult. I do it all the time.
sometimes you have to look for where to park, where a waterfall or overlook is, how to get there, etc.
there's all sorts of details to be considered that sometimes require you to look at various different maps
for instance, a lot of stuff just isn't fricking on a usgs topo map and you need something else to find it.
Thats well and good, the point is to have back ups and redundancy. I'll take the phone, map and compass, and emergency-signal beacon if I had one.