Iranian Embassy Siege
> soldier sets fire to curtains
> other soldier gets abseil rope tangled, hangs in the flames
> 3rd degree burns
> hostage killed
Killing of Bin Laden
> helicopter not under fire or physically malfunctioning
> crashes
Munich Olympics Hostage Rescue
> 11 hostages dead
> 1 police officer dead
They have years to train and days to plan. But every time it ends less than well. Why is this?
> inb4 "no plan survives contact with the enemy"
enemy didn't crash the helicopter
enemy didn't tangle the abseil
Because soldiers, even special ops guys, are generally poor morons. That's why they are soldiers.
Aren't special forces proven to have an IQ much higher than the average population?
I have no idea why you would assume that.
The reason they get into this units is not because they are bright, but because they have high physical demands.
They really weren't the brightest bulbs.
t. worked at garage that won the lowest bid on maintenance on ATVs for the GSG9.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beslan_school_siege
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moscow_theater_hostage_crisis
Why can't Russia pull even domestic counter-terrorism correctly?
Like, I can excuse the morons for losing to Ukraine's professional army, but dealing with a bunch of shitters wearing nothing but sandals and Kalashnikovs?
Nepotism means the nephew of the uncle of the guy close to Putin gets the promotion as they don’t trust the actual best guy to do the job as he could support a coup hence incompetency rises
more planning = more mistakes
it is empirically shown that such operations have less bad results when it is only planned at a high level and not worked out in detail
You have zero fricking idea of what you're talking about.
this is true, there are too many different things that can go wrong and most highly detailed plans go to shit anyways. the best plans are simple ones that allow for flexibility and change according to the situation.
>Why do building assaults always end so badly?
>Iranian Embassy Siege
You need to work on your definition of badly.
this is probably his definition of successful
Дa.
You see comrade, special operations are like vodka.
British operation small number of kills, small success.
Russian operation, big number of kills, big success.
does any one have the boris mannequin meme? can't find it anywhere. thanks
Fartsniffer thread
if any on topic thread that isnt about ukraine can be assumed to be a warriortard thread, then hes the hero saving the board.
>hes the hero saving the board.
lol
imagine writing this about yourself
lmao even
>pretending youre laughing when I can practically hear the tears hitting your keyboard
The only people who could reasonably get asshurt by warriortard are bongs, and there shouldnt be any of them on /k/ because theyre noguns and can only relate to /k/ topics through videogames. So what are you?
>The only people who could reasonably get asshurt by warriortard are bongs,
Yeah, and not the dozens of other anons who hate you for shitting up the board
Hard situations to plan and prep for I guess. I always get a good laugh remembering that one theater hostage situation in Russia where they just gassed the entire building with poison. Nearly 1000 hostages and every single one was counted as an injury or a death.
In all fairness, as massive of a fumble Beslan was, it was probably the single most effective anti-terrorist operation in history. Russia displayed to the entire world that if you take hostages, you will be killed, and any women or children you hide behind will be killed, too. Gotta be the most Russian approach to anything I've ever seen.
I agree that it's funny in a twisted way, but that's quite a broad way of applying the word "effective". The anon you're replying to isn't talking about Beslan though, but this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moscow_theater_hostage_crisis
I wonder if they miscalculated and thought the gas wouldn't be as poisonous as it was.
Didn't they use fet or something as the gas?
Correct, it was a fent derivative.
And they used it on a bunch of tired, dehydrated people.
And they didn't tell the ambulance paramedics what they had used bcoz muh state sekrit.
so it's safe to assume that they actually weren't trying to kill everybody and actually intended to just put everybody to sleep instead? Still shows a lot of disregard for human life to even take the risk, but I guess that's just Russia.
The intention was to neutralize the terrorists without causing (permanent) damage to the hostages. However, the problem is just trying to figure out the correct safe dosage of any substance for ONE person is more of an art than a science. You're never going to get it right for thousands of people at once.
so basically they just went "if they die, they die" and "our spetsnaz dudes are worth more than the hostages".
I wouldn't put them past legitimately thinking the gas was harmless. Russians tend to sniff their own farts like that, especially when it comes to subjects they have little understanding of.
Russia STILL hasn't officially disclosed exactly what kind of gas they used, other than vaguely saying it contained a fentanyl derivative.
>just trying to figure out the correct safe dosage of any substance for ONE person is more of an art than a science. You're never going to get it right for thousands of people at once.
Didn't they also fail to inform the EMTs on the scene about the gas because of le glowBlack person shit XAXAXAXA and caused a shit load of unnecessary deaths because they didn't have simple OD kits?
>Didn't they also fail to inform the EMTs on the scene about the gas because of le glowBlack person shit XAXAXAXA and caused a shit load of unnecessary deaths because they didn't have simple OD kits?
Yes, alongside really basic shit like "don't put passed out people on their backs" or "use the recovery position". People choked on their own tongues post diege due to it.
Russians are pretty fricking moronic, man.
I've read speculation (in the book Putin's People so it's good speculation) that the stockpiles of fentanyl they used was old as frick and was speculated to have lost it's potency. So the guy they consulted tried to figure that unknown potency loss into his calculations by adding more into the mix. Then the FSB colonel coordinating the raid was told the gas might have lost potency, so he added more as well.
And as it turned out, it hadn't lost any potency at all and it's a miracle anyone survived at all.
It's also claimed by some Russians that the theatre might have been a maskirovka from start to finish, that the terrorists were in on it and had been promised they would be given short sentences and released if they performed this attack, that the bombs were fakes etc.. The reason given is that allegedly the head terrorist had been reported captured 2 weeks before, and the fact that it takes like a second to clack off a suicide bomb vest but none of the terrorists managed to do this despite having like 30 seconds to a minute before the gas actually takes effect.
To be honest it seems too moronic to be true, but then again I would have said before 2022 that the Hostomel plan would have been too moronic to be tried.
>To be honest it seems too moronic to be true
Russian glowBlack folk were literally caught in the process of planting explosives during the 2000 bombing that was used as a Casus Belli for Chechnya 2.0
>and the fact that it takes like a second to clack off a suicide bomb vest but none of the terrorists managed to do this despite having like 30 seconds to a minute before the gas actually takes effect.
Anon for safety reasons they had no detonation chains ready (batteries removed from devices and stored in pockets). They were supposed to attach batteries to wires and then clack. But when gas went in they were not able to perform complex tasks.
In Beslan they learned their mistake and had batteries installed.... and one of their big bombs installed on the basketball rim in the gym went off by accident killing dozens of hostages and starting unplanned assault and combat.
That's beyond stupid. Everyday I thank I wasn't born in Russia
That actually makes sense
The tiny bit you may not be aware of is that the Israelis had been training the Ugandans for years just before Entebbe and were best of buddies. Then they got PNGed by the dictator in a fit of ennui or whatever. Hence they were in the very very unique position of knowing extremely intimate details of the Ugandan defences (or lack thereof)
They were raiding the workplace they were fired from. It was a unique opportunity and unlikely to happen again
Go huff farts homosexual
>Ahahah you'll be killed along with your hostage no matter what, checkmate !
>Hostage takers are islamist snackbar who are already ready to die without survivors
Aw, yeah, yeah, great russian victory here.
That was due to the FSB not telling any medical personnel what gas they had used since 'lol its a secret' so they didn't know how to treat the effects and most people died. Human life really is that cheap in Russia, just look up the Moscow Apartment bombings.
Probably. He's getting sneaky today. Must be scraping the bottom of the barrel if all he can come up with for the British SAS was "one got burned a bit". Didn't mention the shit-show that was Beslan. Makes me think he's a Serb. That would explain a lot !
I don't know who you think I am, but this is my second ever post on k.
(The first time I posted on k (totally different topic) I was also accused of being someone else.)
>any mention of your country must be a hidden insult from some reddit boogeyman
just imagine having this much of a persecution complex
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_France_Flight_8969
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Entebbe_raid
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ouv%C3%A9a_cave_hostage_taking
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_embassy_hostage_crisis
When it's done properly and not a by a bunch of moronic russian snowmonkeys, it works.
Even Bataclan has been somewhat a success despite full improvisation at the begining.
>Two random police officers enter into the Bataclan
>One hostage taker killed
>Not a single hostage killed after the police officers engaged the hostage takers
>Ouvea
Anon, didn't that one have 2 deaths that are assumed to be friendly fire?
Also, to add to your list of successful ones there's also GSG9's Operation Fire Magic: 4 marxist terrorrist take over an aircraft, kill the pilot and when the GSG9 raids the plane they kill 3, 1 one gets captured injured and the only civilian that got hit was because one of the terrorrists threw a granade before getting merked
Because even if you know the exact layout, have a master plan, and have all the tools and bodies to commit to said plan you're still entering a killbox of human unpredictability. In the end all you're trying to do is minimize how badly it will go.
this
Ive heard it explained how all the training, planning and $$$gear is all just to try and compensate for the big advantage the "defender" in the building has.
Sometimes they end well
>Embassy siege as an example of it going "badly"
What?
Kek possibly a very good troll thread but with Ukraine thread abound and little dorks squealing about hard Ukraine is winning I’m not sure.
There were frick ups with the first two but both accomplished their goals . Munich was a failure because Germany didn't have a dedicated counter terrorism unit.
>Always
>Three incidents (only one failure)
I would say try again but I'd prefer it if you have a nice day immediately. Don't overplan it, since expediency is king, after all.
> Iranian Embassy Siege
> soldier sets fire to curtains
> other soldier gets abseil rope tangled, hangs in the flames
> 3rd degree burns
> hostage killed
You failed to mention the death occurred PRIOR to the siege due to a dispute between the terrorists and one of the hostsges and that death was the reason why the greenlight was given in the first place for the SAS to breach the building. Don't talk about shit you have zero idea about you moron.
you're the moron
there was one hostage killed prior to the siege
and a second hostage died in the siege
fricking moron
these are all rituals
freetofindtruth.blogspot.com
gematriaeffect.news
Almost none of these (except the Russian theater one) are as nearly as disgraceful as The Bataclan.
I know it was a bloodbath but how was it fumbled?
By the French forces being fricking cowardly homosexuals pissing in fear of facing islamists armed with auto rifles.
Borderline Uvalde tier but at a worse scale.
>pissing in fear of facing islamists armed with auto rifles
We literally have photos of them posing with ballistic shields with bullet holes in them moron
The Iranian embassy siege didn't end badly though.
Might be cherry picking.
Israel raised a Ugandan military base with two 707 airliners flying 100 feet off the deck to avoid radar, surprised the soldiers, acted like they were supposed to be there, and bought enough time to get into position.
They ended up losing a single soldier and rescuing a shit ton of hostages, almost all of the , like 80+. They killed like 50 Ugandans who attacked them and blew up 30 MiGs to cover their escape.
That seems like a massively overwhelming success for a raid carried out by commercial airliners on a major military complex.
>ITT everyone misses the fricking point because brits have to constantly cry about a boogeyman
No, the operations are not a technically a failure on paper.
No, the lack of mention of chechen terrorists doesn't really mean anything.
Yes, the examples are probably picked because everyone expects some level of basic maneuvering from le elite western units.
Yes, this thread is mainly about why basic errors are commited by top tier units when it's their job to be prepared for these situations.
>why did X end badly
>"it didn't"
>noooo stop crying about le bogeyman this is an example of blah blah blah
Actual schizo. Make a better thread next time, this one's shit.
When normal soldiers want to take a defended building, they typically use a hundred grenades, blow out walls with tanks, spray blind into rooms and through doors and walls.
Taking a building without killing everyone inside and without destroying the building is remarkably difficult.
>Iranian Embassy Siege
>Ending badly
Are you fricking high? Or is this some premium bait?
>Iranian Embassy
Success
>Osama Bin Label
Success
>Munich Olympics
Failure
>They have years to train and days to plan. But every time it ends less than well. Why is this?
Turns out it's a pretty difficult thing to do. Especially when there are loads of civilians in the building who can't get shot, and are under armed guard by fanatics with itchy trigger fingers.
where Beslan?
Because real life isn't a video game and shit always goes wrong.
Defenders have a huge advantage.