Even though I'm probably one of the most enthusiastic vatnik bashers on the board, I think that this topic deserves a non-shitpost answer.
The PAK-FA/SU-57 is a long-delayed and painfully overdue project that traces its origin to research projects that were underway in the Soviet Union in the early 80s. The Soviets had become abreast of the ATF project over here, and naturally, immediately ordered all of their design bureaus to get to work and draft up designs for the USSR's own ATF competitor. Though, as with every thing else in the Soviet Union, the worsening economic conditions throughout the 80s, and the eventual collapse put a pause on nearly every major military project, and monstrously expensive projects such as this one were frozen until the early 2000s.
Work resumed in 2001/2002, and over the next decade, Sukhoi engineers tried their best to come up with what was eventually released as the SU-57, but not before suffering a number of setbacks such as >Heavy sanctioning after their 2014 shenanigans >India pulling out of the project (and taking their money with them)
Considering the very shitty cultural, social, and business environment that Russian engineers have to work in, and the fact that this thing was delayed for almost 15 years, it's rather impressive that the SU-57 managed to make it to production. One can only imagine what an SU-57 made with Soviet resources and political will would have looked like.
>2014
That was the US-Russia energy market war going hot. Up until that point it has been a political battle with the the US trying to partner up with Ukraine to develop their newly-discovered shale reserves with the ultimate goal of replacing Russian energy using the pipeline infrastructure that Ukraine inherited from the USSR. Russia fought against that bitterly and also set up Nordstream with Germany to provide some security against being cut off via Ukraine. By November 2013 Ukraine had signed large development deals with Shell and Chevron — and what happens a few months later? Putin had lost the political battle for Ukraine so he escalated it into a military one. That actually worked as the oil companies pulled out of the deals — but in response the US slammed a set of really painful sanctions against the individuals in Putin circle, ie, hitting them were it hurts. Putin and his oligarchs have been desperate to get out from under those sanctions ever since which is related to their huge effort at effecting public opinion in the US.
>One can only imagine what an SU-57 made with Soviet resources and political will would have looked like.
I can. Grossly overhyped and underperforming while being at least a decade (more like 2-3 decades at this point) lagging behind the western equivalent.
This western obsession with making the vatnik union seem anything but what it was reality is really tedious. Russia is a direct continuation of the vatnik union, just a smaller/lesser variant of it yet there are still heads obsessing how things were magically totally different only 40 years ago. When all the shit demonstrated in ukraine was the same shit old timers pointed out to be as bad as they were then
If only Russia hadn't gone down the path it choose in 2014, so much progress could have been made.
even if the russoids didnt go apeshit over ukraine starting 2014, this false "5th gen" jet is already made obsolete with the appearance of F-35s, not even mentioning F-22s.
>One can only imagine what an SU-57 made with Soviet resources and political will would have looked like.
I can. Grossly overhyped and underperforming while being at least a decade (more like 2-3 decades at this point) lagging behind the western equivalent.
This western obsession with making the vatnik union seem anything but what it was reality is really tedious. Russia is a direct continuation of the vatnik union, just a smaller/lesser variant of it yet there are still heads obsessing how things were magically totally different only 40 years ago. When all the shit demonstrated in ukraine was the same shit old timers pointed out to be as bad as they were then
Agreed, imo, the Su-57 jet was essentially a resurrected 1980s soviet era development(like the T-14 Armata and many other soviet era programs) that underwent a 20 year freeze and resumed in the 2000s after the Russian economy finally showed some semblance of vitality because of high oil prices. The russoids, a shadow of its former self when it lost dominion over the other member states of the USSR, could no longer start a genuine jet fighter program from scratch on a clean slate and could only opt to resume where the soviets left off on the now Su-57 program, as a result it inherits some fundamental design flaws that cant be changed unless the whole program itself gets cancelled and restarted.
but it didn't make it into production, there's less than 10 operational prototypes and none have been fielded in ukraine.
Same reason they still operate the Kuznetsov, it's one of the things you need to have to be considered a "Great Power"
this, it's all a ruse to pretend they have (had) very modern and competent armed forces.
conveniently, the west keeps hyping them up so that defense contractors can keep selling trillions of dollars worth of equipment beyond what would be reasonable "cautionary" spending.
>the SU-57 managed to make it to production.
But it hasn't. >One can only imagine what an SU-57 made with Soviet resources and political will would have looked like.
A technologically-inferior white elephant with the stealth characteristics of an F-18 (which is to say, none at all).
>the stealth characteristics of an F-18 (which is to say, none at all)
Technically the Super Hornet, which is significantly newer than the regular old Hornet, is a pretty modern 4.5th gen plane and is among the stealthiest as far as4.5 gens go, incorporating air intake shields, angled stabilizers and radar along with other designs. The newest block also has radar absorbing coating and a stealthy weapons pod which make it appear even smaller on radar. It's still not a true stealth aircraft by a long shot but it's not a regular 4th gen either.
Su-57 is supposed to be comparable to the old Super Hornet by design, which is fine for a run of the mill 4.5th gen but i highly doubt the russians achieved the specs intended in the patent papers with all those wood screws and warped panels and crooked parts. That's not touching other issues with it, like reusing the same engines and avionics as the older Su-35 and the planes being basically artisanal one-off models that might not even exist except as the prototypes that they painted new numbers in to claim new serial production airframes.
>the stealth characteristics of an F-18 (which is to say, none at all)
Now you're just being a dick. There has been a serious amount of work put into making the F-18 as stealthy as it can without completely scrapping it.
Embezzlement and to be featured in western media
Pajeet money mainly. Then even more embezzling after poos pulled out when they figured out how shit it was.
to keep R/D capabilities around
Same reason they still operate the Kuznetsov, it's one of the things you need to have to be considered a "Great Power"
Yeah its one of those cargo cult things.same thing with the t14
Even though I'm probably one of the most enthusiastic vatnik bashers on the board, I think that this topic deserves a non-shitpost answer.
The PAK-FA/SU-57 is a long-delayed and painfully overdue project that traces its origin to research projects that were underway in the Soviet Union in the early 80s. The Soviets had become abreast of the ATF project over here, and naturally, immediately ordered all of their design bureaus to get to work and draft up designs for the USSR's own ATF competitor. Though, as with every thing else in the Soviet Union, the worsening economic conditions throughout the 80s, and the eventual collapse put a pause on nearly every major military project, and monstrously expensive projects such as this one were frozen until the early 2000s.
Work resumed in 2001/2002, and over the next decade, Sukhoi engineers tried their best to come up with what was eventually released as the SU-57, but not before suffering a number of setbacks such as
>Heavy sanctioning after their 2014 shenanigans
>India pulling out of the project (and taking their money with them)
Considering the very shitty cultural, social, and business environment that Russian engineers have to work in, and the fact that this thing was delayed for almost 15 years, it's rather impressive that the SU-57 managed to make it to production. One can only imagine what an SU-57 made with Soviet resources and political will would have looked like.
If only Russia hadn't gone down the path it choose in 2014, so much progress could have been made.
>2014
That was the US-Russia energy market war going hot. Up until that point it has been a political battle with the the US trying to partner up with Ukraine to develop their newly-discovered shale reserves with the ultimate goal of replacing Russian energy using the pipeline infrastructure that Ukraine inherited from the USSR. Russia fought against that bitterly and also set up Nordstream with Germany to provide some security against being cut off via Ukraine. By November 2013 Ukraine had signed large development deals with Shell and Chevron — and what happens a few months later? Putin had lost the political battle for Ukraine so he escalated it into a military one. That actually worked as the oil companies pulled out of the deals — but in response the US slammed a set of really painful sanctions against the individuals in Putin circle, ie, hitting them were it hurts. Putin and his oligarchs have been desperate to get out from under those sanctions ever since which is related to their huge effort at effecting public opinion in the US.
And your in depth proper answer is appreciated anon.
There is a time for TZD, and a time to be smart.
>One can only imagine what an SU-57 made with Soviet resources and political will would have looked like.
I can. Grossly overhyped and underperforming while being at least a decade (more like 2-3 decades at this point) lagging behind the western equivalent.
This western obsession with making the vatnik union seem anything but what it was reality is really tedious. Russia is a direct continuation of the vatnik union, just a smaller/lesser variant of it yet there are still heads obsessing how things were magically totally different only 40 years ago. When all the shit demonstrated in ukraine was the same shit old timers pointed out to be as bad as they were then
even if the russoids didnt go apeshit over ukraine starting 2014, this false "5th gen" jet is already made obsolete with the appearance of F-35s, not even mentioning F-22s.
Agreed, imo, the Su-57 jet was essentially a resurrected 1980s soviet era development(like the T-14 Armata and many other soviet era programs) that underwent a 20 year freeze and resumed in the 2000s after the Russian economy finally showed some semblance of vitality because of high oil prices. The russoids, a shadow of its former self when it lost dominion over the other member states of the USSR, could no longer start a genuine jet fighter program from scratch on a clean slate and could only opt to resume where the soviets left off on the now Su-57 program, as a result it inherits some fundamental design flaws that cant be changed unless the whole program itself gets cancelled and restarted.
you're nationalist and racist
And a wrecker and Trotskyite
but it didn't make it into production, there's less than 10 operational prototypes and none have been fielded in ukraine.
this, it's all a ruse to pretend they have (had) very modern and competent armed forces.
conveniently, the west keeps hyping them up so that defense contractors can keep selling trillions of dollars worth of equipment beyond what would be reasonable "cautionary" spending.
>the SU-57 managed to make it to production.
But it hasn't.
>One can only imagine what an SU-57 made with Soviet resources and political will would have looked like.
A technologically-inferior white elephant with the stealth characteristics of an F-18 (which is to say, none at all).
>the stealth characteristics of an F-18 (which is to say, none at all)
Technically the Super Hornet, which is significantly newer than the regular old Hornet, is a pretty modern 4.5th gen plane and is among the stealthiest as far as4.5 gens go, incorporating air intake shields, angled stabilizers and radar along with other designs. The newest block also has radar absorbing coating and a stealthy weapons pod which make it appear even smaller on radar. It's still not a true stealth aircraft by a long shot but it's not a regular 4th gen either.
Su-57 is supposed to be comparable to the old Super Hornet by design, which is fine for a run of the mill 4.5th gen but i highly doubt the russians achieved the specs intended in the patent papers with all those wood screws and warped panels and crooked parts. That's not touching other issues with it, like reusing the same engines and avionics as the older Su-35 and the planes being basically artisanal one-off models that might not even exist except as the prototypes that they painted new numbers in to claim new serial production airframes.
>the stealth characteristics of an F-18 (which is to say, none at all)
Now you're just being a dick. There has been a serious amount of work put into making the F-18 as stealthy as it can without completely scrapping it.
Because FRICK YOU WESTERN INTELLIGENCE AGENCIES
AND BUDDY, WE DIDN'T LINE THE CAN
THAT COSTS EXTRA!
It's just
>we have McDonalds at home
the plane
To scare F-16. Fact
?
easier to be build a LEGO model