Why did American police stop using revolvers when they’re incredibly common with most peoples’ self defense carry?
Why did American police stop using revolvers when theyre incredibly common with most peoples self defense carry?
Why did American police stop using revolvers when they’re incredibly common with most peoples’ self defense carry?
Most muggers run when the first shot is fired, bank robbers and mass shooters often wont.
> muggers run when the first shot is fired
Gotta work on that shot placement.
>mass shooters
we've already seen how useful the police are with all that expensive gear during uvalde.
>mass shooters often wont
mass shooters are pussies, hence why they attack unarmed people
american police departments changed their standards and regulations. This was mostly in response to several high-profile shootouts in the 1990s that made revolvers seem like too little gun in the event of another major shooting.
Matix and Platt shootout in Miami. Shit went sideways fast during the engagement and essentially they blamed their revolvers and .38 being too weak.
It's what led to the creation of 10mm and ultimately .40.
Well when you have a shitty six shooter and you're up against some guy with a mini-14, yeah you're going to be pretty butt hurt about it. OP lives in fiction or is bad at bait
Semiauto 556 rifle vs 38 speshul.
You are going to get your shit pushed in 7/8 times,
after 2 or 3 high profile shootings like miami dade, the Newhall and north Hollywood (Prolly otters too)
Autoloading handguns, 40sw and patrol rifles started being issued.
Popo Eventually ended up with soft armor and a 9mm handcum on them.
And ussually a palate carier and an Ass Rape 15 with various attachements in their motorised vehicles storage compartement.
>motorised
nogunz
Nuh uh.
Reevaluate that statement you homosexual
No handgun is going to compete with a rifle. The real problem is the police couldn't hit anything but they don't want to talk about that.
This.
It was just a bunch of morons that couldn't hit what they were shooting at. 357 is ballistically superior to 10mm, and the only reason they went to autoloaders was to give better capacity so they might've had a chance to fire more rounds indiscriminately than with a revolver. All that those morons seemed to learn was that in all the mess the volume of fire was the only thing that gave a bunch of morons with guns a better chance at hitting something, instead of working on proper training to make sure they can hit what they're shooting at.
>why aren't you hitting the guy emptying a .223 rifle your way in the head or vitals with your revolver? I would totally do that.
This is "why don't the cops just shoot the bad guy in the leg" levels of moron.
Cops have notoriously bad aim even compared to puggy boomers who shoot once a year.
The bad guy was taken out by a 9mm thoughever
>The collision knocked off Grogan's glasses, and there is speculation his vision was so bad that he was unable to see clearly enough to be effective (a claim disputed by the FBI's medical director, who stated that Grogan's vision was "not that bad").
Ok, who brought special agent Magoo to the damn shootout?
>Matix and Platt shootout in Miami
Only correct answer in the thread. The rest is children theoryposting based on Fortnite and GTA experiences.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/1986_FBI_Miami_shootout
Killed
>Benjamin Grogan: Smith & Wesson Model 459 9 mm semi-automatic pistol, nine rounds fired. Killed by a .223 gunshot wound to the chest.
>Jerry Dove: Smith & Wesson Model 459 9mm semi-automatic pistol, 20+ rounds fired. Killed by two .223 gunshot wounds to the head.
Wounded
>Richard Manauzzi: lost control of weapon in the initial vehicle collision, no shots fired. Minor wounds from shotgun pellets.[12]
>Gordon McNeill: Smith & Wesson Model 19 .357 Magnum revolver (not FBI issue, but personally owned .357's and .38's could be approved for carry by supervisors, same applies with Mireles's Smith & Wesson Model 686), six rounds .38 Special +P fired. Seriously wounded by .223 gunshot wounds to the right hand and neck.
>Edmundo Mireles: Remington 870 12-gauge pump-action shotgun, five rounds of 00 buckshot fired; .357 Magnum revolver; Smith & Wesson Model 686, six rounds .38 Special +P fired. Seriously wounded by .223 gunshot wounds to the left forearm and head.
>Gilbert Orrantia: Smith & Wesson (model unknown, likely a Smith & Wesson Model 13, as it was an issued weapon at the time) .357 Magnum revolver, 12 rounds .38 Special +P fired. Wounded by shrapnel and debris produced by a .223 bullet near miss.
>John Hanlon: Smith & Wesson Model 36 .38 Special revolver, five rounds .38 Special +P fired. Seriously wounded by .223 gunshot wounds to the right hand and groin.
Uninjured
>Ronald Risner: Smith & Wesson Model 459 9 mm pistol, 14 rounds fired, Smith & Wesson Model 60 .38 Special revolver, one round .38 Special +P fired.
Perpetrators
>William Matix: Smith & Wesson Model 3000 12-gauge pump shotgun, one round of #6 shot fired. Killed after being shot six times.
>Michael Platt: Ruger Mini-14 .223 Remington semi-automatic rifle, at least 42 rounds fired, Smith & Wesson Model 586 .357 Magnum revolver, three rounds fired, Dan Wesson .357 Magnum revolver, three rounds fired. Killed after being shot 12 times.
A mix of revolvers, handguns, and a shotgun.
Mireles: Remington 870 12-gauge pump-action shotgun, five rounds of 00 buckshot fired; .357 Magnum revolver; Smith & Wesson Model 686, six rounds .38 Special +P fired. Seriously wounded by .223 gunshot wounds to the left forearm and head.
>686
>still carrying .38 in a big ass gun like a 686.
There's the problem, it was that butthole's fault.
Because nigglocks.
Can't dump 100 rounds into Jerry the fruit thief with a six shooter, anon
And with a revolver you can only shoot 6 dogs at a time.
Japanese police are still issued with revolvers for that precise reason. They have to make those shots count, if they ever need to use them.
>Japan is a safer country
Yeah sure but cops got along fine in America for decades without needing 17+1 rounds to a mag. If something actually serious comes up, you get the specialists in.
people in this thread have explained the specific circumstances which convinced US police departments to switch from revolvers, and you keep arguing with them. Why? No one is saying the police logic was particularly good, but that's the logic. Officer Dicknuts needs to be capable of responding to and suppressing major active threats (2+ criminals with long arms and possibly body armor) to buy time for the specialists to arrive.
>he thinks the average American cop would ever put themselves in any actual danger to protect anyone
Not to suck cop dick Dallas PD did a good job of it during that ambush on them in ?2016? In that protest over nondescript dead criminal . Some officers were literally shielding protesters that were hating on their very existence from gunfire. But that’s entirely the exception and not the norm I suppose (see Uvalde). Speaking of which yeah it’s shit like that why cops switched from revolvers like it was said a million times In this thread. Veterans with PTSD and a million red flags can scoop up an AR in an afternoon and go on a cop killing spree. It’s a very different environment that really anywhere else
>Japanese police are still issued with revolvers for that precise reason.
Yeah, that reason being "Boomer moron Logic," which is even more impossibility entrenched in Japan than here.
>Japan
Meme country that eats radioactive fish, thought ordering their best pilots to commit suicide was how to win a war, and let their prime minister get assassinated by a schizo with a hardware store PVC shotgun. There's a reason why Godzilla attacks them every couple of years instead of countries that actually know how to fight.
That schizo did ultimately expose a mountain of corruption, so there is that
>Japanese police are still issued with revolvers for that precise reason. They have to make those shots count, if they ever need to use them.
what's more, they're single-action only, 5-shot cylinders, and the first round is a blank. they're only armed in a ceremonial sense.
the m60 new nambu and smith and wessen airframe used by the Japanese police are 5 shot revolvers, but they are absolutely double action. They are simply trained to use single action preferably. They also adopted small numbers of SIG P230s and a limited amount of beretta M9s.
Anon Japan is a largely peaceful society, police are not getting into shootouts and carry firearms on the off chance they need them. At most they are expected to deal with an put of control domestic violence incident or some such where a 5 shot double action revolver is sufficient. If there were anything more serious they have SWAT units with semiautomatics, machine guns and other modern weapons.
Quite frankly we should all be so lucky to live in a society so safe that it balked at the implication of even needing to arm police at all, let alone with semiautomatics.
japs have 4 shot revolvers because they don't allow minorities into their country
you can just say they don't have Black folk Black personing there.
Japan has zero niggres and hispanics statistically speaking. If the US was an all white country we'd just slash law enforcement by 90% and deal with a higher crime rate than all the bootlicker nations. Peace is for homosexuals, nobody steals your shit in rural America anyway, even nogs don't want to die for a TV they can't even sell for a hundred bucks anymore.
Typical revolvers can only fire 6 shots before reloading; that's not nearly enough potential for rapid collateral damage to satisfy stringent modern law enforcement standards.
Unironically this. Deport (preferably into the Sun) everyone with skin darker than a modest tan and violent crime would drop to a statistical margin of error at worst.
>*drops an acorn nearby in your path*
Deport the pigs into the Sun too.
The biggest issue is reload speed. Its VERY easy to drop rounds/moon clips or speedloaders under duress
>deport all browns
>trash never gets picked up
>crops dont get picked
>animals dont get butchered
>amazon packages dont go through
Im sure you'll reply 'based' because you want to live in villages
anon, there are many first world countries that manage to pick up the trash without importing millions brown people to do the labor for basically no pay. There isn't a binary choice between having crime filled ghettos or not being able to pick oranges.
sounds like those jobs should pay more if they can't incentivize workers to do the job at their current rates.
moron logic. at the time the US was a lot whiter and minorities only lived in segregated ghettos that cops could ignore entirely
Guns are almost unheard of in Japan
So a 5 shot revolver is really all that is needed for the police.
Why would the Japanese police waste money for Glock to sit collecting dust
Only for them to be sold to
The USA so some homosexual can sell them saying Japanese police issued
Look it has a cool number etched in it
1,500
>most peoples’ self defense carry
I'm pretty sure most normal people carry autoloaders, the people who carry revolvers are more likely hikers who wants something powerfull against bears.
Autoloaders are better against criminals because 17 shots are better than 6, speedloaders or moon clips are bulky compared to a mag, and unless you expect the officer to wiener the hammer to single-action every time before he fires, than the trigger on an autoloader is better than a double-action trigger on a revolver.
japs and other asian cops are given revolvers because their police don't trust them with much else. for fricks say they still have blanks in their first chamber like its the 1800s.
And that is in response if gun crime being very rare and they have armed response teams on standby.
ok but we can all agree gun crime is not so rare in america, which is why cops carry 17rd automatics and have an AR between the seats.
Sure. And even in countries with small amount of gun crime most patrols have a rifle or mp5 in the car because it's more accurate and they are used in static siege like situations.
that is a new development
>why did american soldiers stop using bolt actions when egerybody else still was
>why did people stop using horses when everybody had horses
Because you can't magdump without a mag.
Believe it or not, the police are not somehow obligated to dutifully follow whichever gun is "incredibly common" among people who CC. It should also be pointed out that autoloaders are also "incredibly common."
There are a couple reasons why American police transitioned away from revolvers in favor of semi-automatic pistols:
Firepower: Semi-automatics hold more bullets in their magazines (typically 15-17 rounds) compared to a revolver's limited capacity (usually 6 rounds). This became a bigger concern after events like the 1970 Newhall incident where officers were outgunned by criminals [YouTube: Cops Should have Stuck with Revolvers?].
Firefights Police tactics evolved to address more frequent firefights with criminals. Semi-autos allow for faster follow-up shots without reloading as often.
However, revolvers do have some advantages:
Simplicity: They're generally easier to use and less prone to jamming.
Safety: Their simpler design makes them less likely to discharge accidentally.
So, why aren't revolvers as common for police self-defense even though civilians use them?
Department Policy: Most police departments prioritize the higher firepower of semi-autos.
raining: Officers receive extensive training on semi-autos, making them more comfortable with that platform.
Revolvers are still used in some niche situations:
Backup guns: Some undercover officers or detectives might carry a small, concealable revolver as a secondary weapon.
Veteran officers: Some senior officers who are comfortable with revolvers might be grandfathered in and allowed to keep using them.
Overall, the shift towards semi-autos reflects a focus on firepower and adapting to changing crime trends. While revolvers offer some advantages, semi-autos better suit the needs of most police departments in the US today.
>They're generally easier to use and less prone to jamming.
Tell me you've never used a revolver without saying you've never used a revolver. The advantage of a revolver is they can be really accurate use a bunch of different powder loads and bullet shapes. They're emphatically not easier to use and they are much easier to break in rough and tumble use.
you are responding to very obvious chatgpt
ok bot
I just read about the 1970 Newhall incident. Holy shit
In the aftermath of the Newhall shooting, although this was not based on the actions of any officer involved in the incident, the CHP modified their training to eliminate the practice of "pocketing brass" on the range (the act of picking up spent cartridge cases before reloading with fresh rounds). Several witnesses, including officers who responded to aid the four officers, said no brass casings were found in Officer Pence's clothing. One of the first responders, CHP Sergeant Harry Ingold, said he found six brass cases on the ground next to the driver's door of Pence's and Alleyn's cruiser indicating that prior to being killed, Pence had dumped his spent brass casings on the ground before reloading his revolver. This was confirmed by CHP Chief John Anderson in his book The Newhall Incident: America's Worst Cop Massacre.[
what does this mean. I'm a brainlet
Chips officially told their people to stop fricking around with empty brass because they were concerned it could be a problem in a firefight, despite it not having been a problem at Newhall. Abundance of caution.
>why did police departments switch to a less expensive, higher capacity, more reliable, less complicated, easier to use platform
It's a fricking mystery.
In 2024, there are two excellent uses of the revolver:
>1. Small snubnose
>2. Big fricking magnums
It's outdated and silly in service-sized frames otherwise.
return to .38s and shotguns
its the only way
>.38s
Imagine being gayer and more feminine than a Fr*nchman
put a .38 in your ass and say that to me again gay
I dont swing that way homosexual
shotguns have been replaced with patrol rifles
Very sad indeed
Just issue 20mm.
Lmfao he said while providing not a single shred of evidence or source, frick you and your buttholes premise.
Need more bullets to kill Black folk on meth
Unironically this. The law-enforcement trend toward autoloaders happened after several decades' worth of black riots coincided with the emerging crack cocaine epidemic. The 1992 LA Riots were what really caused cops across the country to finally modernize their equipment.
This is at least the 30th time I've had to explain this.
Police have a different ROE compared to civilians. A cop is required to maintain engagement. If an average dude with a CC shoots at an attacker and the attacker fricks off, mission accomplished. If a cops shoots at someone and he runs, the cop has to continue the fight until surrender or incapacitating.
When someone decides to get into a gunfight with a cop, they're fighting to the death because they know the cop won't retreat. When you get the drop on an assailant with your CC, they aren't ready to fight. If they take cover, it gives you the advantage to move away and disengage. 99% of the time, though, they frick off when bullets start coming their way.
fpbp
Firty-ninth post best post?
You assume that the ROE is different when it is much the same. End the threat, whether you kill them or scare them. But revolvers are underpowered at killing compared to semis for obvious reasons. I can scare a mugger off with a hi cap semi too.
This is usually the case, IMO. There's little reason to carry a revolver over a semi. That is, until you get into magnum cartridges. A .460 S&W has the capability to "end the threat" faster than a semi-auto on average. If you're not a cop, this is helpful because you're not getting into a prolonged gunfight and blindsiding the attacker before they can think to scramble for cover.
>If a cops shoots at someone and he runs, the cop has to continue the fight until surrender or incapacitating.
Psychopath ROE, what the hell is wrong with cops?
Because they're required to apprehend. If the cop is shooting, the assumption* is that it's to prevent immediate harm to themselves or others. If the bad guy is running, he is still a threat to the general public and needs to be apprehended.
You know this a major theme in like every major cop movie of the 1980s right? Discussing this very topic. Where the rogue loose cannon bad boy cop carries some type of semi-auto (M92 for Riggs, Browning High Power for Axle Foley) while the regular cops have wheelguns.
It was seen by departments that anyone carrying a semi-auto pistol was sort of looking for trouble, and it wasn't professional to have military-style weapons on regular cops or detectives.
I know it's a fiction but I still never got why Deckard's gun had 2 triggers, or a bolt handle
Because the receiver was taken from a rifle.
Why does the rifle have two triggers?
It's like a double action. You can wiener the firing pin with one, and have light press trigger to fire, second.
What went wrong 6,000 ago that Germans ended up being this autistic? Like that's a cool idea, but who comes up with that???
its a set trigger. you can either use the normal trigger and it shoots a normal weight pull or you use the set trigger and that makes the normal trigger into a hair trigger that is super easy to set off.
hair triggers are easier to shoot accurately, but no safe, hence the need to have the set trigger.
the glock lobby in the 90s was real
Here, anon. Everything you need to know.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_Hollywood_shootout
they needed to be able to miss the criminal with 25 rounds instead of just 6
they also wanted to accidentally shoot potentially dozens of innocent bystanders per magazine and a dozen is more than 6 so the choice was obvious
furthermore they are golems for ZOG and thus hate anything remotely beautiful which is why they traded blued .38s and crown vics for ugly Black person-tier fordslop SUVs, and plastic SIGshit. see also: they're all fat tattooed mutts and half are named manriquez now.
They became common because the police all sold theirs.
Common =/= good
But hopefully good =/= common
This is the case with semi auto pistols, wheelcucks btfo
>they’re incredibly common with most peoples’ self defense carry?
Source, moron Black person?
even the most hood rat mf has a gwiener and a stendo why would they limit themselves to 6 shots?
it's almost like things change over the years, autismo
Because the guy who runs out of ammo last wins.
a couple of reasons
1. there were some very high profile shoot outs in the late 80s early 90s, like miami dale and north Hollywood
2. prior to the 70s/80s semi autos generally couldn't reliably shoot hollow points/expanding bullets. Before that time period, semi autos were primarily made for the military who all used ball ammo due to the hague convention so depending on how you were getting your ammo, semi autos couldn't shoot hollow points and were less reliable, because again manufacturing was worse and army guns are only going to be tuned to a specific load.
3. there were major demographics changes post WWII. The combination of boomers coming of age the second great migration of blacks from the south to northern cities causes a massive spike in crime from the late 60s to mid to late 90s, when combined with drug criminals carrying weapons and the perceived or real idea of a lot of criminals being heavily armed due to the miami dade shot out departments got way more militarized which only went turbo mode post 9/11
4. revolvers aren't common for self defense carry anymore since semi autos are now good, reliable and cheaper than revolvers
Night time /k/ threads keep getting dumber and dumber
cause they're better
this handgun is better than a revolver in every conceivable measure
But can I leave it in a bucket of piss for 3 years and still shoot it
Because cops suck at shooting and fire until empty and usually don't hit shit.
Cause they want to have more ammo, being able to put more bullets down range, and most likely also being able to engage more targets before reloading. A revolver has 6 shots, then you reload. If you're incredibly lucky, you could hit one guy multiple times or hit 6 guys once each. But the likelihood that one bullet will take a guy down is low.
You also need to account for missed shots or shots that don't really do much to the person. It's why in videogames i always take more mag capacity over having more damage per shot. Sure revolvers can fire higher lethality rounds than a semi auto pistol, but the pistol has less issues if you miss a time or two.
Police want to have the advantage any chance they get. There's a reason why police take semi auto rifles over taking bolt actions into gunfights or indoor environments. Only time a bolt action might be good is if it's a hostage situation and you can easily get a shot on the bad guy. If not, then you need to be able to mag dump if need be.
Revolvers do have a unique intimidation factor to them. In the 1980s in my misspent youth, I stared down the barrel of a police officers. 357 Magnum revolver on three separate occasions. You can see the hollow point bullets in the cylinders looking back at you. Also, when a police officer is sticking at 357 Magnum in your face and yelling freeze, you do think about if that revolver is wienered and the extremely light hair trigger on that thing. Every once in a while you see a police officer with a big revolver on his hip. It suggests to me anyway, that cop is a gunslinger who knows his shit and he's not going to frick around.. There's a similar vibe with police officers and oftentimes sheriffs who have a custom 45 1911 on their hip. Gunslinger.