what is stopping the US from tearing up the ww2 era treaties and letting our jap bros have nukes? surely china being the only nuclear state (aside from north koreans) in the east asian sphere is a terrible fricking idea. personally I think a nuclear japan would shut the mouth of the barking middle kingdom dogs.
They can easily make their own nukes. They don't because they don't want to.
Legend is Japan could start cranking out nukes with in a few weeks and continue to make them or ramp up production from there. They have all the technology, experts, and materials to do so but choose to not step over the line.....just yet. Several such cases in the world these days.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dual-use_technology
So they can achieve what South Africa, Ukraine, Kazakhstan, Israel, China, India and Pakistan did a half century ago? Implessive
>Ukraine
There was no Ukraine half a century ago.
Wrong
oh didnt know you meant as a province of USSR
Nobody said anything about Ukraine being a province or a country idiot, Ukraine still developed nuclear weapons almost a century ago and in fact most of the high iq soviets were ukies
Do we pretend like Scotland or Ireland aren't real places with distinct cultures and peoples because they were a part of the British Empire?
Wait, Ireland is a real place?
Supposedly.
There's been a Ukraine for centuries
C U T E
>Legend
It's cold hard fact that Japan is sitting on enough Weapon's Grade Plutonium to make 6000 nukes. Not the stuff in their MOX fuel.
The CIA has long believed what China cries about, that Japan has a domestic nuke (along with the delivery systems their airspace is legit) that is "15 minutes" from assembly so they can technically satisfy both the international community and domestic opposition to nuclear weapons by saying "No we don't have a nuke".
we want them to follow through on developing gundams. If they have nooks they won't feel the need to.
why not both?
>oh shit we need to get the gundams ups and running before the Chinks try to attack us
>nvm we have nooks. Forget the gundam, it's a ridiculous concept anyway
the beginning of the One Year War involved a lot of nukes (half of humanity was dead in the first month of the war), the presence of mobile suits only really mattered after the Antarctic Treaty had both sides agree to ban the use of WMD's.
Probably the fact that Japan is ackshually not a US vassal state and makes their own decisions regarding WW2 treaties. If they were a US vassal state they would have nukes and a better military because that is what the US wants.
They're investing much more into their military lately. They see what China is doing and unlike homosexual Europe they won't sit around and depend on big bro USA to protect them. A lot of the Japanese defensive force rules are getting bent to the extremes and it's only a matter of time before they have a standing army.
>before they have a standing army.
I doubt it, their defence plans call for gutting the JGSDF and boosting JASDF and JMSDF capabilities as well as investing heavily into cyberwarfare and a new constellation of military satellites covering the region 24/7.
They're buying new planes, new missiles, new boats, and new toys for those planes/boats/missiles.
They know demographically they can't get a ton of recruits to fill boots, so they're instead investing heavily into higher tech systems and more automated systems that allow for reduced manning with the same or better than existing capabilities.
>so they're instead investing heavily into higher tech systems and more automated systems that allow for reduced manning with the same or better than existing capabilities.
So what you're saying is the Japs will have cute AI robo girls that will gun down chinks shortly?
I fricking hate China, but without any outside intervention China would steamroll Japan today, even a few Chinese provinces would be too much for Japan to handle
You're quite moronic. Japan is indeed a US vassal state. They rely heavily on US military hence why they have a meme self defence force to begin with which isn't even an army. Only sovereign countries are the ones with nuclear weapons.
>Japan with one of the best navies and air forces on the planet doesn't have a real army because their best friend has the best navy and air force
kek
>Japan with one of the best navies and air forces on the planet
So does their surrounding nations what does that prove anything. Japs are bound by their constitution to keep a limited amount of soldiers so they rely on US personnel.
They're not limited to a certain number of soldiers, they're technically constitutionally bound to not keep ANY standing army, airforce, or navy. But they get around it because the JSDF branches are a self defense force. Japan can easily decide they need 500,000 men for their defense force and it wouldn't be legally challenged since there is no hard cap or limit on how many men are in the JSDF.
That being said, they know they can't sustain such a high number of troops given the country's demographics and the population's view on the military in general. Which is why their 2023 defense strategy calls for highly advanced weapon systems with a focus on automation and AI or unmanned vehicles where possible. Japan has the money and technical prowess to at least on paper do this. We'll have to see how it plays out over the next few years.
>Japan is indeed a US vassal state
No, it's not. the ruskies and chink's way of coercing broke ass countries into an pseudo-alliance is actually not the norm on planet earth
It is a vassal state by the stroke of the pen, moron. Japs are bound by constitution and the US will never allow them to have full control of their military and foreign policy.
>the US will never allow them to have full control of their military and foreign policy.
The US has been asking japan to arm up for decades, if they had control over japan why the frick would the US have to beg and plead for them to arm up?
You don't ACTUALLY expect anyone to believe this do you?
>Dude trust me bro, the US says one thing but ACTUALLY i know the real US goal was to keep japan on a leash you're just too stupid to see the reality
you're a moron.
Japan having nukes is functionally the same as having a security agreement with the US who does.
Except they aren't wasting money maintaining an arsenal they aren't going to use.
Nukes are impractical and a meme, the only reason to have them is to keep dipshit nuclear states in check with Overmatch,
Oh look another thread where a moron asiatic pretends Japan is cucked by the US because they don't have nukes and the latest news about SK developing nukes PROVES SK is a better ally than Japan.
When in reality Japan was nuclear capable 30+ years ago and have simply never felt the need as they're already under the US's nuclear umbrella.
Japan would rather spend that money on their conventional forces to keep Chinabugs off their islands.
Maybe if the Americans didn't stop the Taiwanese from having their own Nukes, they wouldn't even need SK or Kapan to have Nukes.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taiwan_and_weapons_of_mass_destruction
The US doesn't need either one to have nukes, if they did they'd just give them nukes.
Besides Japan more than likely has nuclear material made into a warhead (or the individual components of a warhead) that is ready to be assembled and put into a delivery system of Japan ever REALLY needed some nukes.
In nuclear latency it's literally called the "Japan option" the idea of a nuclear state being capable, able, and possessing the material to complete a nuclear bomb, but not ACTUALLY going through with building it.
>Besides Japan more than likely has nuclear material made into a warhead (or the individual components of a warhead)
Those are peaceful plutonium stockpiles and purely scientific solid fuel space rockets
Ahhh THAT'S what those are for. Well never mind then.
Yeah, I wouldn't worry about it. You just sometimes need to launch a satellite on short order, without using control tower
The US doesn't give Taiwan nukes under the fear that Taiwan will one day say "maybe rejoining with China isn't so bad" and then gives China the nukes.
>simply never felt the need as they're already under the US's nuclear umbrella
This pretty much sums up why a lot of other nations like Japan, South Korea, Poland, Germany and many others don't feel the need to get nukes. These countries are firm US alliies, and US doctrine is 100% entrenched in the position of "nukes on our allies is a nuke on us", and it is now practically impossible for nations like Russia and China to nuke any nation for that matter and get away with it. Despite what tankies and thirdies say, the US is actually an incredibly good ally who is flexible to the demands and needs of their allies, as well as reliable in broad ideology, thus nukes are really just not worth it.
Anon, we already gave them two, I think they learned their lesson.
winrar
If Japan begins to split from the US, they'll have to consider nukes, to threaten any amphibious assault fleet. The US told Japan to end the billions of dollars of energy, construction and engineering projects with Russia, and Japan told them to frick off. They also let their petrodollar reserves drop $100B around this time. If that kept up 5-10 years, Japan would at least consider a nuke arsenal.
THe US and Japan aren't splitting, there is some insane like 95%+ of Japanese people support the US forces in japan and stronger ties with the US.
There IS still friction surrounding US marines raping locals, but that's honestly not really a massive issue nation wide that the Japanese are concerned about and it's certainly not enough for them to ACTUALLY want to break from the US.
US 7th fleet is headquartered in japan and has been for 70+ years now, the US has 10's of billions of infrastructure in japan that they're not simply going to abandon. Japan knows this, the US knows this. There is no splitting.
>but that's honestly not really a massive issue nation wide that the Japanese
Yeah, because it only happens to Okinawans
Just don't let black marines get stationed there, ezpz
>le petrodollar
Nukes are irrelevant offensively. They're only good for making the CIA think twice about causing a civil war where nukes go missing.
There already has been splitting, as mentioned. There also has been the US running a $1/2T per year trade deficit with China the past quarter century, a direct threat to Japan. Japan is actually well along in the consideration phase. They could just stay there, but perhaps do more than talk, in 5-10 years. Dumping petrodollars is the sign.
Might as well tear up the NPT then. Every country can get nukes then. Sound good?
NPT is kind if bullshit. Especially with Iran and Israel. I have no idea why treaties signed by the Shah are considered to have legal basis when its an entirely different country now. That's like if we in the US had to go to war with Argentina over the Falklands because a long time ago we were part of the UK.
Because it's fatalisticly ironic to the point of even effecting Americans.
Having nukes in Guam serves the same purpose, which I assume we do.
The US's SLBM fleet makes it irrelevant anyway.
Even if we don't have nukes in guam, we have them all over the world on subs.
>The US's SLBM fleet makes it irrelevant anyway.
The Triad is not a meme. Despite armchair strategists whinging, all 3 legs remain mortally relevant.
Sure, but Guam isn't needed for that triad.
You still have ground-based nukes in the continental US and air-launched nukes.
You don't need ground-based nukes in Guam or japan to have your triad in the pacific. Pretty sure a Minuteman III in Alaska can reach most of China.
Also the Minuteman replacement program is underway and currently slated to enter service in the late 2020s or early 2030s, which should increase our ground-based ballistic missile capabilities (even if the range isn't changed, they'll still have other improvements).
>Sure, but Guam isn't needed for that triad.
Air arm is often based out of there.
We nuked japan a few times and since the US is still the only superpower nfw japan ever gets nukes, countries like germany or even poland or turkey would get nukes before we let japan have them, we never fought a war with poland or turkey and historically we've always considered germany more of a peer culture hence why the thought of nuking germany was untenable but nuking japan was massively popular in the US and west in general
Also, the meme about japan having the capability to make nukes means shit, south africa HAD nukes over 50 years ago, today there are probably 100 countries that could develop nukes, nobody gets nukes unless a majority of the UN security council approves either overtly or tacitly and any country that moves forward with nukes with the UNSC backing will become a pariah state in the global world order
The US WANTS japan to have nukes, are you moronic or just the asiaticshill that pretends to be japanese/nordic?
You've got to be a weeb if you think this, japan has always been considered the "bad guys" from the perspective of the US and its only the last few years where China has moved up solely because Japan has been largely mitigated and China is significantly a greater power/threat today, keep jerking off to your fantasies about Japan getting nukes, never going to happen
>japan has always been considered the "bad guys" from the perspective of the US
How old are you?
47, lived through the 80s and 90s where japan was considered worse than what china is today, also from the midwest with over 30+ extended family members that are veterans some kia a few silver stars, parts of my extended family have been in the US since the early 1800s
So you're just a moronic moron. Good to know.
I can guarantee you that you are in the minority at least in the US, let me guess, you've touched another man's wiener correct?
maga
Any real conservative who DIDN'T have an ancestor die to Japanese attacks in WWII has supported Japan ever since they became a US ally since they're the biggest middle finger to china and russia (along side ROK).
Yeah but could easily be done out of Hawaii or Alaska with airborne refueling or South Korea or Okinawa if you're fine being so close to Taiwan/China
Range is not the singular concern
>The Triad is not a meme.
Again I never said it was a meme, I said guam is by no means an integral part of the triad and it would hardly impact the US if guam suddenly decided they weren't going to allow US nukes stationed there (yeah, never would happen, but the point remains).
It's nice to have guam, but it's hardly some linchpin to the US's access to the pacific.
>I said guam is by no means an integral part of the triad and it would hardly impact the US if guam suddenly decided they weren't going to allow US nukes stationed there
Opinion thoroughly discarded. At least have the decency to open wikipedia for 5 mins before you lecture about something you so evidently have no insight on or even grasp of.
You're right without guam suddenly the US bases in Japan and the Philippines would have to be abandoned. Guam is the only way the US has managed to barely hold on the pacfiic.
Thank god guam is there.
if you can't tell, I'm making fun of you.
Are you stupid? You realize we literally built up China to what it is today thinking it would counter/be an alternative for cheap labor to Japan? The obvious miscalculation was that China would have their own global agenda, but they wouldn't be shit without the US
Ahh yes, the US that has been fighting a proxy war with china for decades through vietnam and Korea, TOTALLY the US was building them up and trying to contain japan.
What sad delusional reality do you live in?
This place really astounds me on how low iq anons are
what are you fricking moronic? Japan is one of the US' closest allies in the world, probably closer than any ally in Europe. The US has been pushing Japan to rearm since like the 1970s
since the 1950s really. They had to BEG japan to establish the JSDF and japan fought to keep it limited in scope and size and it took DECADES for it to really expand heavily into what we see today.
Then we grew up in very different Americas
>before we let japan have them
>let
Anon, if they want them, they build them.Even North Korea did, what makes you think Japan could be stopped from doing so if they would want to?
Sure they can build nukes like every other country in the world but we would also nuke them again if they tried
>u want spicy bomb?
>i give you spicy bomb!
The US would honestly support it, they WANT japan to pick up more slack in the region and being a nuclear state would add to the stability of the region, even if only slightly.
The US won't even let Japan have a real military or send combat troops to US-lead operations, what makes you think they would let Japan have nukes? Most of the US still looks at Japan with suspicion and as very foreign particularly the white and israeli populations which still control the country
Again, if you knew your history, the US has been BEGGING japan to expand the JSDF into a real military for 50+ years now. You're delusional if you think the US has been keeping japan on a leash, japan has been opposed to a larger military and the US has been trying to get them to change their mind for decades, they finally started to take things more seriously in the 80's and 90's but they still kept themselves capped to 1% of GDP, no military exports and no "offensive" weapon systems (like cruise missiles). Now in the 2020s japan has decided to go up to 2% of GDP, allow military exports, and now allow the use of "offensive" weapons for counter-strike and to allow long-range attacks in support of regional allies. And the US is loving it.
If japan said tomorrow they were going to build a nuclear launch ballistic missile for their subs, the US would cheer them on and might even offer technical assistance.
I got no dog in this fight but find a single US congressman, governor, local politician, cabinet member, federal court justice, or soldier that shares your sentiment, do you think there is a single blue collar worker in the US that gives a shit and doesn't immediately think Hiroshima/nagasaki/pearl harbor when the topic of japan comes up? The weebs are probably less than 1% of 1% in the US, your opinions are insignificant
What the frick are you talking about? Do you have any idea how many service members serve IN Japan or have worked alongside JSDF in joint exercises and training? I'm not a weeb, I am simply aware of US international interests in the pacific region and they basically all call for a stronger japan, the US's hegemony is built on free maritime trade, something japan relies on heavily for their economy. Therefore japan and the US are tied to the hip here, they both NEED the world order to continue with the status quo, free maritime trade access for all.
The US is in NO way concerned or worried about japan getting stronger in the region, Japanese military strength DIRECTLY supports US interests in the region and since japan's economy RELIES on global free maritime trade access, guess what they're going to want to fricking protect in the pacific region? Free trade access.
Stop being moronic, you're starting to sound a lot like the eternal asiaticshill.
> unsolicited brings up asiaticshill due to obsession with worst korea
Nervously defensive rambling opinions discarded weeb
all me btw
Who is this "US" you are referring to? Was it Bush, Trump, Obama, Biden? Was it Pelosi, McConnell, McCarthy? Was it the CIA, DOD, NSA? Were they literally begging Japan to expand? If anything they were the types that relished in nuking Japan...You weebs really need to kys
>Were they literally begging Japan to expand?
Yes? Why do you even post when you don't have basic historical knowledge?
These weebs literally make people hate japan more than we already do but ironically the japs probably hate these weebs even more than we do
>they WANT japan to pick up more slack in the region
Doesn't Japan have one of the best navies in the world?
Ehhh, probably 3rd or 4th realistically. I'd say China is safely 2nd at this point. Japan and the UK can both argue for 3rd place, depends what you place your priority on, the UK chose SSBNs/SSNs and aircraft carriers. Japan chose AEGIS destroyers and conventional diesel-electric subs without ballistic missiles (since they rely on the US nuclear umbrella anyway, why bother).
Their deep state wants nukes, but their masses are horrified and repulsed by the idea.
Why would the US want to give up an excuse for them to maintain a military presence and exert political influence directly in the region?
Word to the wise: Remember Pearl Harbor
This, really is surprising on 4ch how weebs can't comprehend that Japan is considered a "frenemy" to the US, not a true ally like the UK or Aussies, the current global world order was literally established at the expense of Japan and Germany to the benefit of the US and Russians and Chinese, the UK and France were brought into the UNSC as "colonies" of the US to always have a majority in the permanent UNSC, this is partially why Russia and China are increasingly branching away against US hegemony
>why cant we just give them nukes?
Japan is 'one wrench turn away' from nukes for about 50 years now. It's a mix between not wanting to antagonise North Korea and China and not making them a target.
The USA would have to force Japan to take them, the japs don't want any more nukes on their soil
Don't all us vassal states have nuke bunkers?
No only a handful. And those only have basically useless B61s. It's really just for show. All the actual relevant nukes are kept on US Bases in US territory.
In fairness when you missiles can hit basically anywhere on the planet anyway, it's not like you need them to be stationed close to the target.
Cultural aversion to nuclear weapons. Hell they don't even like that so much of the country runs on nuclear power.
To be fair it's warranted given they're Earthquake capital of the world and you need basically the strongest built facilities for them to not break from said quakes.
I mean the US has those, the problem is Japan uses plants built on like 1970s designs, and still running on 70s safety standards
>The US won't even let Japan have a real military or send combat troops to US-lead operations
So how bad do you guys think his braindamage actually is?
Freedom tastes so great
The problem isn't logistics or anything, it's mindset. I hate to say it but the Japanese are hopelessly naieve when it comes to geopolitics, a lot of them seem to think that being an island will just shield them from the problems of the outside world and thus they can ignore everything that isn't happening in Japan. And only a few LDP administrations have realized that's a fool's errand.
>they can ignore everything that isn't happening in Japan
The fact that japan is doubling their defense budget due to russia's war in ukraine proves you have no idea what you're talking about.
I'm talking about the average Japanese person. Go watch interviews with people on the street, they have no idea what's going on outside of Japan and don't care. Not to mention, the current administration is one of the exceptions I was talking about. The Nakasone administration was another one and quite frankly Nakasone understood the reality of geopolitics more than 99% of his country.
I'm part japanese and have lived in japan for over a decade with more relatives than I can keep track of in japan, here's what I will add:
1) nuclear weapons are not even something anybody discusses and the notion is as ludicrious as aliens walking around on mars
2) I hate weebs, I can even understand middle eastern terrorists although I greatly oppose them in principle, but I really hate weebs and I can say that my full japanese relatives really look down on japanophiles that have no real clue of what japan is really about and try to fit our culture into their delusions about japan
Sure but that doesn't really matter as long as their government is prudent in their defence strategy and they currently seem to be taking it pretty seriously, and almost all opinion polls on the new defence changes and 26% year of year increase in defence spending is WIDELY supported among the Japanese public.
Nakasone wanted to turn Japan into, in his own words here, an unsinkable aircraft carrier for the US.
Pretty based ngl
>nd almost all opinion polls on the new defence changes and 26% year of year increase in defence spending is WIDELY supported among the Japanese public.
I chalk that up to a lot of the old unironic ChiComs in Japan being dead or too old to influence people anymore.
The average American is like this too I wonder if it has anything to do with the average person being a glue eater no matter where you go in the world
I think it's more that, if we're being realistic here, voters don't really have the ability to influence foreign policy and to be honest they probably shouldn't because voters generally don't focus on long-term decisions when it comes to politics.
If I can make assumptions for a minute, I believe it's because the average person is uncomfortable with the fact that international relations is basically a chessboard, especially for followers of Realism, and that people are basically just the pawns of great powers. And when they tell you how much they disagree with this, they're met with this conversation
>I don't like that the world works this way
>Well I'm sorry you feel that way but the other major powers have already decided that the world does work this way so we can either play by their rules or watch as they slowly swallow up everything around us
>Why can't we opt out?
>We can but opting out doesn't make what's happening around you disappear and ignoring a problem doesn't mean it won't ever come knocking.
And people don't like having that conversation, they'd rather bury their heads in the sand.
It's far easier ideologically to not have to confront the reality of international relations. Really easy to argue for my point of view when I can ignore any repercussions because my country exists in a bubble inside my head.
You need to understand geo-politics. Both Japan and Taiwan have the capacity to make their own nuclear weapons since they have nuclear power plants (it's one of the reasons they build them). They don't do it because that would provoke China, and may cause them to pre-emptively attack.
If there is seroius threat of invasion of Japan or Taiwan, China will have to have months or years of buildup to carry that out. Then they will make defensive nuclear weapons.
It's the same reason Israel has nuclear weapons but doesn't announce it. They don't want to provoke.
>It's the same reason Israel has nuclear weapons but doesn't announce it. They don't want to provoke.
No that's different, Israel won't shout it from the rooftops because they don't have the launch systems in place a lot of nuclear powers do, they basically just have bombs they can drop out of planes and MAYBE a sub armed with nukes. The ambiguity is because the more information Israel is forward about their nukes, the more holes could be found in their delivery system which could be planned for.
Japan gave up on their nuke ambitions, so did Taiwan.
Ideally we would have a nuclear Japan, Taiwan, South Korea cooperative defense agreement where an attack on one is an attack on all of them and they let the nukes fly.
How about we nuke them again so they can transcend into something greater than anime.
I would trust a israelite before a jap and its not even close, frick would probably trust a chink before a nip too
t, maga