It's not the right time. They are still in the second slow. Slow slow quick. Once they have the Russians tired, spread out, leaderless and thinking it's over then the Ukrainians will throttle down. Slow to recon, slow to probe, quick to attack. Once those come out they will be flying not stationary.
They will never be deployed. Having a separate supply chain for a small number of tanks that aren't much better than the ones they're using now is pointless.
Same reason the marders, strykers and other vehicles haven't been used yet, let alone the array of veteran Mechanized and Armored divisions.. 93rd is waiting for their chance alongside all the other big boys.
Same as with all those Leopard 1s, Anon. Why do you think the pro-Russian shitposters and Telegram channels have sounded increasingly nervous over the past week of advances, despite 5-6 AFU brigades not having entered the chat yet?
Right now Ukraine is still finding out how the Russians are set up and how to counter it. If they just yeeted in all their Chally Wally's right now they would get killed by Russian aviation.
So establishing SHORAD will probably have to happen before they fully commit.
more valuable can also mean "don't have as many so don't want to lose them and have wasted the crews time training on them", since they have way more Leo's available to them
Not an argument, MOD had a very thorough and intesive training the Challenger crews and began training in January as opposed to April for Leopard. They're just better trained, don't be mad about it.,
>Jamie, pull up that one story of a challenger taking 20-something PG-7s and a Milan ATGM and still rolls away
Challenger is no more or less significantly vulnerable to mines and ATGMs than any other MBT
It was an RPG 29 and it went through the floor/lower glacis joint when cresting a crater. I talked to a guy from their unit who said it glanced/ricochet off the ground first and hit the tank when going upwards. Hence the driver only losing a toe - although they took the whole foot off due to infection.
Penned. >but I talked to a guy in the unit
kek desperate
It was an RPG 29 and it went through the floor/lower glacis joint when cresting a crater. I talked to a guy from their unit who said it glanced/ricochet off the ground first and hit the tank when going upwards. Hence the driver only losing a toe - although they took the whole foot off due to infection.
>Ukraine has 30 reserve divisions for the assault, 14 full of western tech. >Only 2 have been committed to combat so far. >Punching through South Donetsk at high speed anyway
it CANNOT be this straightforward
Surely they have committed more to the offensives thus far than you purport
There are other forces involved but they were at the front anyway, the reserve is still being held back. I imagine it'll be weeks before we see major assaults. You'll know when it happens because the Ukrainians will be flying again and the Storm Shadow attacks will ramp up.
Pretty sure only 9 western divisions are ready atm. Also pretty sure we've seen like 4-5 divisions already.
My standing answer until proven otherwise is that the real target is Luhansk, not Zaporiznia, as they are unlikely to cut the land bridge but the liberation of the better part of the Luhanks oblast would be politically unconscionable for the Kremlin
>Luhansk
Seems like a waste of time. The Russian people are totally buckbroken and wouldn't care even if Belgorod city fell, you can't say "If the Kremlin loses x they will be overthrown", it's just not gonna happen.
South Donetsk, pushing for Mariupol, is a serious alternative to Zap. But other than those two approaches the others are all feints, or at least they should be. Only cutting the Russian army in two has strategic military significance, taking some town or city would just be Battle of Bakhmut 2.0 - a lot of lives for something that doesn't especially matter, except this time it would be the Ukrainians grinding out an offensive.
Since they only have 14 it's probably more of a pain to deploy them and keep them maintained than to just not use them. I imagine the Brit government knows this, and the real purpose of the tanks was to guilt other countries in to donating leopards that can be deployed in significant numbers.
Not samegayging and you only attacked me personally because you can’t refute what was said. 14 challengers is not a respectable force at all. Then again neither is 33 leopard 2s
Lol what about that is meant to "demoralize" you? Do you think the 14 challies are the only thing that can win the war for Ukraine and without them they're fricked? They're fine and will win without them anon.
Well explain then, what was supposed to demoralize you about explaining that it was all part of a plan to get other NATO members to donate tanks?
Esl
11 months ago
Anonymous
Concession
11 months ago
Anonymous
Of what? You're the one making dumb claims
11 months ago
Anonymous
My claim was that Ukraine only has 14 tanks and that’s not a useful amount.
11 months ago
Anonymous
Why would 4 troops of tanks not be useful? You can advance across a front many miles across with that.
You think this is war thunder?
11 months ago
Anonymous
Do you think this is war Thunder? What would keep the challengers from throwing tracks on AT mines?
11 months ago
Anonymous
>What would keep the challengers from throwing tracks on AT mines?
Following a full width mine blow in the wake of a python mine clearing rocket. There's a reason 14 is an unusual number of Challengers to be given when a platoon is 4 troops of three.
Plus Ukraine has many other potential systems that it could use with the Challengers.
However in all likelyhood the challenger, marder, stryker unit isn't for breaching it's for the breakout. That's why it's troops are elite airborne infantry and not generic mech riflemen. That's why it has such a high ratio of those infantry and why so many are in wheeled vehicles with towed guns that they can take with them into the Russian rear.
Do you want to discuss combined arms manovere warfare or do you wana show eveyone how upset brits make you?
11 months ago
Anonymous
82nd troops aren’t elite
11 months ago
Anonymous
They are air assault forces, Ukrainian VDV equivalent. Along with their marines they are the best infantry Ukraine has. They've been using them as firefighters all over Ukraine to respond to threats.
11 months ago
Anonymous
Show me proof of everything you just said. >Forbes
Fricking kek
11 months ago
Anonymous
They were formed from the 80th air assault brigade. Who have been everywhere.
>The brigade took part in the defense of Ukraine during the 2022 Russian invasion of Ukraine, fighting around Voznesensk.[40]
>By September 2022, elements of the brigade were also identified via social media posts to be taking part in the southern counteroffensive.[41]
>Members of the brigade were seen reaching the outskirts of Kupiansk alongside SBU Alpha Group, 92nd Mechanized Brigade, and the 25th Airborne Brigade. That same day, the Kyiv Post announced the liberation of the city, despite the Ukrainian Armed Forces operational silence.[42] The UK Ministry of Defence commented, suggesting that the capture of the city dealt a "significant blow" due to Russian supply nodes routing to the Donbas region.[43]
>In February 2023 the brigade took part in the Battle of Bakhmut.[44]
Challengers have never been defeated in combat. They could sweep Russian lines latterly without taking any casualties. When challengers win the day you will stop posting here warriortard
1. Like 5mph cross country difference vs leo 2
2. Not a factor vs russian tanks
3. Not a factor at all, slower theoretically but because the charges and shells are separate they are easier to handle in the fighting compartment so similar RoF can be sustained
4. So does the leopard
Also it exists in so few numbers. And with Britain mothballing most of its tanks this probably the end of the line for the challenger 2. Very mediocre tank
Challengers would be a better tank to use for when the inevitable Russian counterattack begins. Rifled guns and heavy armor means sniping assaulting Russians l
because it's only been one week and we don't have enough footage or know enough about what's happened
then again you knew that, you spamming homosexual
Storm Shadow opening the door to JASSM
UK funding F-16s opened the door to Aussie F-18s
Basically the UK sends a type of weapon first, the rest of the world can then send other variations. It works because the Russians are still mad about the UK kicking their ass in Crimea.
The US isn’t going to send JASSMs. Storm shadow is good enough. If they really wanted to send a along range missile they could send old non sensitive block tomahawks
There was an article saying the UK no longer has the ability to manufacture tank gun barrels. So if they deplete their existing tanks, then technically they won't be able to finish making new ones.
The UK has to get its domestic manufacturing in order before they field their existing ones in Ukraine in any significant number.
>So if they deplete their existing tanks, then technically they won't be able to finish making new ones.
Challenger 3 will use the Rheinmetall L55 so it doesn't make much difference
They were waiting for Boris Johnson to retire as an MP so he could lead the Challenger squadron in to battle.
He’s done that now, so expect them imminently
They were allegedly Khinzaled in a warehouse few weeks ago when the Russians spammed missiles and drones to be able to get trough the Patriot just after the Ukrainians practically ran out of S300.
Could be made up though who knows.
>The challengers are tearing through Russian positions as we speak >G*rman equipment is littering the field, abandoned and burnt
ISN’T IT FUNNY?
WHEN THE CHALLENGER FIRST ARRIVED IN UKRAINE 3 MONTHS AGO AND WE SAID IT WOULD TURN THE TIDE IN THE WAR TO TAKE BACK CRIMEA AND DONBASS, YOU ALL LAUGHED!
WELL, I HAVE TO SAY, YOU’RE NOT LAUGHING NOW, ARE YOU?
Maybe covering in case of a successful Russian counterattack, they rush the heavy hitters in to blunt the push and then counter with Leopards, Bradleys etc. Or they're somewhere else entirely.
They aren't pushing. Duh. They are probing.
At this point, why not assume op indicates the challys have turned up somewhere?
Like fricking Donetsk city.
It's not the right time. They are still in the second slow. Slow slow quick. Once they have the Russians tired, spread out, leaderless and thinking it's over then the Ukrainians will throttle down. Slow to recon, slow to probe, quick to attack. Once those come out they will be flying not stationary.
>At this point, why not assume op indicates the challys have turned up somewhere?
Rheinmetall headquarters to take revenge for all the shit posting over the years
A challenger just flew over my house!
>Post the picture from 5 days ago
The left can't meme.
Hahaha russians cannot into meme...
Not organic
Repurposed
Mixed messaging
Not creative
This meme is a failure.
russians are pussies and dieing in droves
Fascists cannot create, they can only corrupt...
Kys
Which one are you?
nobody looks like any of these. meds NOW
Fascists is what dumbass lefties on Reddit call people they don't like
You got a better quote, hon?
I'm gonna repost this meme just to make russian meme abilities look even worse
They have about six chally wallys. They're just going to sit in Kiev forever.
Because there's a grand total of 14 of them. They're being picky about when and where they deploy them.
They will never be deployed. Having a separate supply chain for a small number of tanks that aren't much better than the ones they're using now is pointless.
Same reason the marders, strykers and other vehicles haven't been used yet, let alone the array of veteran Mechanized and Armored divisions.. 93rd is waiting for their chance alongside all the other big boys.
Brigades*, there are quite a few in rest or in reserve at the moment.
There aren’t enough challengers to make a difference. 33 leopards aren’t enough either. They should have 200 western tanks and 500 western IFVs
Same as with all those Leopard 1s, Anon. Why do you think the pro-Russian shitposters and Telegram channels have sounded increasingly nervous over the past week of advances, despite 5-6 AFU brigades not having entered the chat yet?
They don't have enough Boris Johnson clones to crew them all.
...yet.
>everyone in the world get's replaced by a Boris Johnson clone
BJs for every man, woman, and child.
Right now Ukraine is still finding out how the Russians are set up and how to counter it. If they just yeeted in all their Chally Wally's right now they would get killed by Russian aviation.
So establishing SHORAD will probably have to happen before they fully commit.
both sides are very anxious and holding back their main forces/reserves. presumably Challengers are considered more valuable than the Leopards.
Not even close. Leopards are seen as much more valuable
not him but are you basing this assertion on warthunder BR or a real life source?
Just public information about each tank. Challengers haven’t been upgraded in a long time
They have far more leopards and are likely to get more in the future. You can't fight a war with a dozen weird tanks nobody else uses.
more valuable can also mean "don't have as many so don't want to lose them and have wasted the crews time training on them", since they have way more Leo's available to them
>Leopards are seen as much more valuable
Challengers are more valuable because the crew are better trained
desperate
Not an argument, MOD had a very thorough and intesive training the Challenger crews and began training in January as opposed to April for Leopard. They're just better trained, don't be mad about it.,
Leopard crews were drawn from the most combat experienced. Challenger crews weren’t the focus because of the small amount of challengers in Ukraine.
>Leopard crews were drawn from the most combat experienced.
Source
>b…but consider this Forbes opinion article making this claim
kek no
>ad homs
other way around, challengers are considered 2nd-line shit
Leopards are more versatile, hence more useful to Ukraine.
They are, just none of them have been destroyed so no vatniks posting pics of em
Better luck next time, Krauts
No chance challengers are extremely vulnerable to mines and atgms
>Jamie, pull up that one story of a challenger taking 20-something PG-7s and a Milan ATGM and still rolls away
Challenger is no more or less significantly vulnerable to mines and ATGMs than any other MBT
>Challenger is no more or less significantly vulnerable to mines and ATGMs than any other MBT
Laughs in dozer blade
Got penned frontally by a kornet
Through the floor.
Yeah
Penned.
>but I talked to a guy in the unit
kek desperate
It was an RPG 29 and it went through the floor/lower glacis joint when cresting a crater. I talked to a guy from their unit who said it glanced/ricochet off the ground first and hit the tank when going upwards. Hence the driver only losing a toe - although they took the whole foot off due to infection.
Challenger is practically invincible to enemy projectiles. Watch and learn.
They’re edging us so we cum harder when Challengers roll into Moscow
Ukraine has 30 reserve divisions for the assault, 14 full of western tech.
Only 2 have been committed to combat so far.
Also we've seen drone pictures of challenger already but not in combat.
>Ukraine has 30 reserve divisions for the assault, 14 full of western tech.
>Only 2 have been committed to combat so far.
>Punching through South Donetsk at high speed anyway
it CANNOT be this straightforward
Surely they have committed more to the offensives thus far than you purport
There are other forces involved but they were at the front anyway, the reserve is still being held back. I imagine it'll be weeks before we see major assaults. You'll know when it happens because the Ukrainians will be flying again and the Storm Shadow attacks will ramp up.
why do you question, you a batnik or something?
no questioning
Pretty sure only 9 western divisions are ready atm. Also pretty sure we've seen like 4-5 divisions already.
My standing answer until proven otherwise is that the real target is Luhansk, not Zaporiznia, as they are unlikely to cut the land bridge but the liberation of the better part of the Luhanks oblast would be politically unconscionable for the Kremlin
>Luhansk
Seems like a waste of time. The Russian people are totally buckbroken and wouldn't care even if Belgorod city fell, you can't say "If the Kremlin loses x they will be overthrown", it's just not gonna happen.
South Donetsk, pushing for Mariupol, is a serious alternative to Zap. But other than those two approaches the others are all feints, or at least they should be. Only cutting the Russian army in two has strategic military significance, taking some town or city would just be Battle of Bakhmut 2.0 - a lot of lives for something that doesn't especially matter, except this time it would be the Ukrainians grinding out an offensive.
Capturing melitopol/mairiupol creates 2 million Russian hostages in Crimea. Not even the Kremlin can ignore that.
Armatard seethe thread
My guess is that they are letting the Zap and Bakhmut offensive cook for a while and draw all Russian reserves in.
Before rushing Troitske and encircling Svatove.
They won’t use challengers for that
Why wouldn't they?
they're probably sitting in a unit that guards kyiv or something. a dozen tanks is not worth forming a brigade around.
Since they only have 14 it's probably more of a pain to deploy them and keep them maintained than to just not use them. I imagine the Brit government knows this, and the real purpose of the tanks was to guilt other countries in to donating leopards that can be deployed in significant numbers.
Bingo. Even the UK is only fielding something like 120 challenger 2 tanks.
Cool samegay there bud. I'm demoralized.
Not samegayging and you only attacked me personally because you can’t refute what was said. 14 challengers is not a respectable force at all. Then again neither is 33 leopard 2s
Lol what about that is meant to "demoralize" you? Do you think the 14 challies are the only thing that can win the war for Ukraine and without them they're fricked? They're fine and will win without them anon.
Strawman
14 tanks. Haven’t seen combat in Ukraine yet.
You mad.
Esl
Concession
Of what? You're the one making dumb claims
My claim was that Ukraine only has 14 tanks and that’s not a useful amount.
Why would 4 troops of tanks not be useful? You can advance across a front many miles across with that.
You think this is war thunder?
Do you think this is war Thunder? What would keep the challengers from throwing tracks on AT mines?
>What would keep the challengers from throwing tracks on AT mines?
Following a full width mine blow in the wake of a python mine clearing rocket. There's a reason 14 is an unusual number of Challengers to be given when a platoon is 4 troops of three.
Plus Ukraine has many other potential systems that it could use with the Challengers.
However in all likelyhood the challenger, marder, stryker unit isn't for breaching it's for the breakout. That's why it's troops are elite airborne infantry and not generic mech riflemen. That's why it has such a high ratio of those infantry and why so many are in wheeled vehicles with towed guns that they can take with them into the Russian rear.
Do you want to discuss combined arms manovere warfare or do you wana show eveyone how upset brits make you?
82nd troops aren’t elite
They are air assault forces, Ukrainian VDV equivalent. Along with their marines they are the best infantry Ukraine has. They've been using them as firefighters all over Ukraine to respond to threats.
Show me proof of everything you just said.
>Forbes
Fricking kek
They were formed from the 80th air assault brigade. Who have been everywhere.
>The brigade took part in the defense of Ukraine during the 2022 Russian invasion of Ukraine, fighting around Voznesensk.[40]
>By September 2022, elements of the brigade were also identified via social media posts to be taking part in the southern counteroffensive.[41]
>Members of the brigade were seen reaching the outskirts of Kupiansk alongside SBU Alpha Group, 92nd Mechanized Brigade, and the 25th Airborne Brigade. That same day, the Kyiv Post announced the liberation of the city, despite the Ukrainian Armed Forces operational silence.[42] The UK Ministry of Defence commented, suggesting that the capture of the city dealt a "significant blow" due to Russian supply nodes routing to the Donbas region.[43]
>In February 2023 the brigade took part in the Battle of Bakhmut.[44]
>Ukraine only has 14 tanks
moron alert
Well explain then, what was supposed to demoralize you about explaining that it was all part of a plan to get other NATO members to donate tanks?
Challengers have never been defeated in combat. They could sweep Russian lines latterly without taking any casualties. When challengers win the day you will stop posting here warriortard
Holy fricking schitzo
2000 T90s vs 14 Challys, who wins?
1960 t-90s would be left
The main drawbacks of the challenger are its slow speed, rifled main gun, two piece ammo, and the fact that it stores ammo in the hull with the crew.
1. Like 5mph cross country difference vs leo 2
2. Not a factor vs russian tanks
3. Not a factor at all, slower theoretically but because the charges and shells are separate they are easier to handle in the fighting compartment so similar RoF can be sustained
4. So does the leopard
Anon you're arguing with a shill.
Also it exists in so few numbers. And with Britain mothballing most of its tanks this probably the end of the line for the challenger 2. Very mediocre tank
They'll be in the area because there was footage of Strykers advancing today and they're both assigned to the 82nd.
Those brigades don’t seem to be concrete. Bradleys weren’t supposed to be attached to leopards but that’s what we’ve seen.
They may have changed things up since the thug shaker incident.
Challengers would be a better tank to use for when the inevitable Russian counterattack begins. Rifled guns and heavy armor means sniping assaulting Russians l
This. Dig those fat fricks in and cover them with an insane amount of air defense.
How much AD do you think Ukraine has?
A frick load. NASAMS leapfrogging behind the assaulting force would stop further ka-52 attacks
because it's only been one week and we don't have enough footage or know enough about what's happened
then again you knew that, you spamming homosexual
the heavier brigades have yet to be committed
33rd is the heaviest and has been committed
Challengers were only ever intended as an icebreaker. The UK was tired of Europe fricking around sending helmets and comfy blankies.
Source
Storm Shadow opening the door to JASSM
UK funding F-16s opened the door to Aussie F-18s
Basically the UK sends a type of weapon first, the rest of the world can then send other variations. It works because the Russians are still mad about the UK kicking their ass in Crimea.
The US isn’t going to send JASSMs. Storm shadow is good enough. If they really wanted to send a along range missile they could send old non sensitive block tomahawks
I would refuse to take burger equipment based on their names alone.
acams, nacams, himars, jassms. Jesus christ how fricking boring.
Send only cool shit with cool names like "storm shadow" and "russian baby slaughterer mk.III" pls
>t. Gay moron
C'mon,just the "Oh Himars" memes make it cooler than whatever tryhard name euroshit has.
nasams is norwegian
Sold on the black market
Where is half of the shit that was sent actually?
There was an article saying the UK no longer has the ability to manufacture tank gun barrels. So if they deplete their existing tanks, then technically they won't be able to finish making new ones.
The UK has to get its domestic manufacturing in order before they field their existing ones in Ukraine in any significant number.
>So if they deplete their existing tanks, then technically they won't be able to finish making new ones.
Challenger 3 will use the Rheinmetall L55 so it doesn't make much difference
They were waiting for Boris Johnson to retire as an MP so he could lead the Challenger squadron in to battle.
He’s done that now, so expect them imminently
They were allegedly Khinzaled in a warehouse few weeks ago when the Russians spammed missiles and drones to be able to get trough the Patriot just after the Ukrainians practically ran out of S300.
Could be made up though who knows.
Because we only have around fifty of them and most of them are broken.
>The challengers are tearing through Russian positions as we speak
>G*rman equipment is littering the field, abandoned and burnt
ISN’T IT FUNNY?
WHEN THE CHALLENGER FIRST ARRIVED IN UKRAINE 3 MONTHS AGO AND WE SAID IT WOULD TURN THE TIDE IN THE WAR TO TAKE BACK CRIMEA AND DONBASS, YOU ALL LAUGHED!
WELL, I HAVE TO SAY, YOU’RE NOT LAUGHING NOW, ARE YOU?
Sold on the black market.
Maybe covering in case of a successful Russian counterattack, they rush the heavy hitters in to blunt the push and then counter with Leopards, Bradleys etc. Or they're somewhere else entirely.
Russia has them.
>Shittiest photoshop possible. Zero effort made.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/01/18/britain-sending-right-tanks-ukraine-need-protection-mobility/
>https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/01/18/britain-sending-right-tanks-ukraine-need-protection-mobility/
fake link
Go frick yourself with a cheese grater