Why are Kinzhals getting intercepted so often? I thought the fact it being a hypersonic missile meant it was impossible to shoot down?
Why are Kinzhals getting intercepted so often?
Why are Kinzhals getting intercepted so often? I thought the fact it being a hypersonic missile meant it was impossible to shoot down?
It’s just an air launched ballistic missile. It can be shot down just as easily as other stuff.
No it can't. It is air launched so the startpoint is closer, it starts from speed of two mach and starts from already highest point.
It can be intercepted but its harder to intercept.
there are hypersonics like kin kin and hypersonics like zircon
the first ones ARENT hypersonic at the terminal phase only at boosting
the second ones are hypersonics pretty much everywhere
It is hypersonic and the air lauch gives it already hypersonic speed thus it can gain extra mach numbers. Also, it needs to go down only. Thus the detection is harder
>there are hypersonics like kin kin and hypersonics like zircon
>the first ones ARENT hypersonic at the terminal phase only at boosting
>the second ones ARENT real at all.
ftfy
it's not really "hypersonic" if "hypersonic" means "follows a basic straight line ballistic trajectory towards the target really fast."
The point behind them was they were supposed to be able to manueuvre and change course on the way to the target, and they ust don't, so they are perfectly interceptable. Yet again the West will probably develop the real version tof the Russian paper hype weapon
>The point behind them was they were supposed to be able to manueuvre and change course on the way to the target
wrong.
a hypersonic glide vehicle can't maneuver either but flies so low and fast that you have no time to react.
well in that case it was always moronic then. it's just a ballistic missile and there should never have been any expectation that it would do anything exciting in the first place
>Replies to a picture showing a HSGV following a non-ballstic trajectory with a claim that the post shows that HSGV are just ballistic missiles.
What did he mean by this?
khinzal isn't a hypersonic glide vehicle either.
in it's terminal phase it's travelling at mach 3 tops.
Goog thing America has radar stations all over the world and look down radar sats in orbit then, isn't it?
Russia and China are so far behind they can't even comprehend it. The only thing stopping America from consequence free first strike nuking them is American goodwill, basically.
HBTSS isn't ready yet
>just looked this up
You absolute madlads have been building Star Wars-lite and even an autisti miliboo like me didn't know it
Fricking Americans are crazy
It's kind of a Men in Black situation. We look moronic and unstable, soon to collapse in just two weeks. Until you annoy us. Then said nation gets rocked so hard they just tell the next generation we fight with demons and kraken and shit. Nobody believes the schizo ramblings of the clearly concussed losers. Might as well frick around and find out...
Rinse and repeat.
we were building hypersonic,100g acceleration terminal maneuvering kinetic-kill missile interceptors in the 1960s.
how people get the idea in their head that we don't fully understand the tech in question boggles the mind. Stuff like Khinzal is cargo cult imitation of stuff we built ~70 years, three human generations, ago and then abandoned because its not cost effective as a strike weapon or even as ballistic defense when something cheaper does the job as well or better.
If America is not heavily pursuing a particular type of weapons tech its because we tried it and found it impractical, if a weapons technology is practical we have refined it to a highly lethal level and have either black boxed it to be taken out in case of WW3 or used it as one of our show pieces for political theater purposes. We spend more money on weapons research than the rest of the world combined. We have literally everything you can imagine and a few things you can't tucked away in warehouses, waiting to surprise the next motherfricker that tries. Part of our war avoiding strat is a keep a lot of shit in the back pocket, practice Puerto Rican Judo as the turn turn of phrase goes.
Judo know if I got a knife
Judo know if I got a gun
Judo know man, don't frick with me.
The problem is that its a been a while and the leaders now were largely not around the last time we showed off so the deterrent is losing value. Reminder that russia is being bodied by our hand me downs.
F-117 was announced to the world AFTER it started bombing Iraq buildings.
B-2 was Operational for several years before it was acknowledged.
Stuff Like JSTARS and Global Hawk was talked about but people didnt not appreciate the level of power if gave a theater commander until it was used to rape the Iraqi army, the fourth largest army on earth, to death in a week, with an expeditionary force. Remind that the vast bulk of the US military DID NOT PARTICIPATE in Desert storm.
sprints had nuclear warheads, they weren't kinetic kill
>a hypersonic glide vehicle can't maneuver
so how exactly is it going to hit the target you fricking homosexual?
there are videos showing them maneuver
>but flies so low
how is it going to maintain right altitude without maneuvering?
>a hypersonic glide vehicle can't maneuver
Anon that's literally the whole point. You went from conventional ballistic RVs to MARV's which pull maneuvers in the terminal phase, albeit after a conventional or depressed flight profile. HGV's main threat is that they can maneuver and use sneakier trajectories and unpredictable flight profiles at much lower altitudes than a conventional ballistic weapon tipped with a MARV or regular RV. Your own picrel disagrees with you kek.
>HGV can’t maneuver
posts a pic of a HGV doing pull ups and dips. What did you mean by that?
Incorrect
The truth is that a projectile going hypersonic ain't shit - just get the thing up high and have it come down on a ballistic trajectory while firing a ramjet and you'll get it
But that makes it absurdly easy to spot and intercept, and honestly you're just cheating to hit hypersonic velocity
What actual first world non-turdie countries mean by "hypersonic missile" is something that can hit those speeds on a flat angle and (relatively) low altitude, which thanks to how radar and topography works makes them basically un-interceptable.
kinzhals are easily detectable and its flight path is very predictable considering that its basically ballistic
those are telegram khinzals, they are faster than light thanks to brilliant Russian ingenuity...the real world is different
>I thought the fact it being a hypersonic missile meant it was impossible to shoot down?
So did the Russians.
In very general terms, US and NATO equipment has been shown to tend to be a bit better than what they will publicly claim, whereas Russian equipment has been shown to tend to be a bit worse than what they will claim.
I mean it makes sense from the political perspective that authoritarian shitholes can't garner popular support via either offering their citizens prosperity or through the social contract of the government protecting their rights, so they need to rely on other methods to boost nationalism instead. That's why they focus so much on superficial aesthetics, such as uniforms, national anthems, statues etc and claiming to have wunderwaffe is another way to boost nationalist support, especially if you're about to send them to die with said weapon. Western countries don't need to resort to these methods for support and thus can focus on the tactical advantage of not letting your enemy know what you're capable of
In an interview published by The Economist on 13 June 2023, the Ukrainian Patriot operators stated that the Kinzhal missiles travelled at approximately 1,240 m/s (Mach 3.6), which is about one-third of the maximum speed claimed by Russia
the reduced speed is a gesture of goodwill. wait until the gloves come off, they'll hit at least Mach 3.8, khokhol
yes and the opinions of an insect are worth infinitely more than the opinions of a delusional vatBlack person
kyiv in 3 days huh
no, we already know what Russia says so there's no point in asking other mongrels
Kinzhal is incapable of maneuver after it has been launched. This means that if you know its exact trajectory (say, for example, if some bioluminescent gentlemen with some of the most effective surveillance systems on Earth were feeding you targeting data) then you can intercept it, even with a much slower missile.
this is true Russia is very strong and 500 Patriots have been destroyed
Didn't TASS announce the arrest of the Kinzhal project leads shortly after Ukraine stated that they downed one?
yes, in the real world people take pictures of those same downed khinzals and post them to twitter.
except for all those pesky photo's of downed khinzal warheads of course.
cool nosecone, what does it have to do with the downed Kinzhals?
>wrong see
>it's an unrelated zigger thread
?????
Russia lied.
Mobiks died.
They're trying to create a narrative that
>Knizhal is fine
>those are actually Ukrainian S-200 nosecones
>they bombed their own people or buried them for propaganda photos
I swear they may not be trying to be a parody, but they're succeeding.
>they
it's actually one guy in this case.
helmettard
seen here in an archived thread spamming f35 FUD articles.
>still samegayging his own thread
i've said this before but helmettard is probably my favourite lolcow
Reeeeeeee
Someone claimed these were concrete replicas but those kinds of cracks are normal for brittle, over quenched steel. There's also no aggregate in the cross section
no, the claim was those are betab - concrete penetrating freefall bombs
>concrete penetrating freefall bombs
...why?Why would anyone make a concrete bomb? Unreinforced concrete is brittle as shit and would just shatter before penetrating a bunker. Steel is better in every way that matters, you could make a lighter bomb with the same penetration and lose the shattering effect that scatters concrete shrapnel everywhere.
...oh.
Concrete bombs are often used in training and saw use in Libya where the relative lack of bomb stockpiles saw them pressed into service once everyone remembered that 500lbs of concrete with a JDAM kit is going to frick up anything not reinforced.
>the claim
There're a lot of different and contradictory claims in May 2023. Now add S-200 to the list.
A combination of modern air defense systems, Kinzhals actual flight characteristics, and good raid warning. IIRC there's like one or two bases that MiG-31s modified to launch Kinzhals operate out of. Ukrainians probably have someone out there whose job is to call in raid warnings whenever alot of activity is noticed at the base (i.e preparing for a strike)
>Ukrainians probably have someone out there whose job is to call in raid warnings whenever alot of activity is noticed at the base
those bases are deep into Russian territory.
Ukraine lacks the ISR for that. that's America's doing.
>can speak the language indistinguishably from enemy
>get same slav face on both sides of the border
>even same skull shape
Anon it would be peanuts for them to infiltrate Russia. At least western russia that is only partially made up of Churkas. I'm honestly shocked they managed to sabotage that one rail tunnel in the far east, but having a man observing the aerial comings and goings of a base is easy for them. Such a man doesn't even need to be as close to the airfield as some of the suburbs get.
You want to know the best part? They don't even need to fake a passport since Russia was forcing them down everyone's throat in the formerly-occupied areas in order to quicker make everyone an alcoholic pidor of the Russia federation. You even got a cash (ruble) bonus when you got one.
Why is there a runway RIGHT NEXT TO CIVILIAN HOUSING wtf?
That’s probably housing for the pilots and ground crews.
I fail to see the issue. Commute is really short.
So it's better that america can sneak into russia and set up surveillance and secure comms to report intel than it is for slavs next door who can act russian and speak the language?
and this is what your posts sound like to normal people
>NOOOOOOOOOOOO STOP EXPOSING HOW OBSESSIVE AND SCHIZOPHRENIC I AM
if i wasn't right, why did you feel the need to reply helmettard?
>string of numbers
again, how are you so moronic that you don't understand that people can remember how you write? everyone can see it quite easily.
being fast is not enough if you are predictable
- if you can calculate where missile wil be and when you can stop it
they aren't, and you're so angry about this that after every image that proved you wrong about this was posted, you slink back at a later date to proclaim you were right.
all alone...
gtfo newbie
oh I amend my statement, it appears he's being disingenuous on purpose
gtfo helmettard
Saying it's a Betab is basically saying the Russians want to cause as many civilian casualties as possible.
>20/20 glide bombs intercepted by AD
I mean who do we believe here?
its either:
>"Russian betab500shp glide bombs are getting through, are getting through but are duds, or are shot down and crash where ever"
or
>"no attempt is made to shoot them down, and Russians are bombing civilians"
which doesnt really jive with what the rest of this conflict has looked like.
so what "message" are you going to settle on?
>Why are Kinzhals getting intercepted so often?
>still going with the same airmen shtick
must be really tiring being this paranoid all the time lmao, guess it protects your ego from hurt though so that's good.
here's an image of a khinzal warhead that accidentally got dropped after a mig left the runway inside of russian territory, compared with the one ukrainians intercepted.
notice how they're completely identical, as opposed to the betab which has entirely different details?
you can continue to create cope reactions to this for the next 5 hours that would be pretty funny.
P.S HAHAHAHAHA HE DELETED HIS OWN POST
lmao.
your posts get banned after you get deleted.
after reporting yourself, yes.
he was doing the
"watch out watch out im gonna get deleted by DA JOOZ"
in that post, meaning he probably reported it himself lmao, common self-victimization tactic vatBlack folk have been using for 2 years now.
or simply:
Unknown technology blyat!
Unless they develop warp speed kinzhals they'll never have enough speed going in a straight line to beat a modern defensive system
We had a programme of very short notice dispersal exercises planned in 2022 to practice the response to Russian hypersonics, because we've got a basing vulnerability (Typhoons in Coningsby/Leuchars, Voyagers at Brize and so on) but it was cancelled when it was realised that Kinzhals etc were dogshit
It's "hypersonic" in the same way that a SCUD is hypersonic. It doesn't appear to maneuver at any point during its flight, which makes it no harder than a SCUD to shoot down as long as you pick it up on radar fast enough and have a PAC-3 launcher in a decent position to hit it.
Probably because a lot are getting spammed and some get shot down. Of course, many also get through
idk, haven't seen a lot of them get through, maybe the ones that are out of range of patriots or something
at the start of the patriot-vs-kinzhal conflict, I saw a patriot launcher fire 30 or so missiles and still fail to stop a single kinzhal.
we also regularly hear of shit getting blown up in ukraine even when the AD intercepts 200% of the missiles fired. I wonder why
>I saw a patriot launcher fire 30 or so missiles
lies.
there's no patriot launcher with anywhere near 30 missiles.
>it's 2024
>people still can't see the obvious difference between the khinzal warhead and the betab
>people still don't fricking know what's inside these missiles
were you people dropped on your heads as children?
There were 6 kinjals and 9 cruise missiles. Considering it’s standard protocol to launch two interceptors against each target, 30 patriots sound about right.
bro, that might be so for the US, but i feel like ukraine's using theirs a little more sparingly.
i think whether or not they fire two at a target depends on where they think it's going to land.
>Why are Kinzhals getting intercepted so often?
They're not.
Except they are, verifiably with photographs.
No but he's going to reply again and say "no they're not" without any evidence whatsoever to contradict imagery of shootdowns. This is the superior vatnik intellect
May I see them?
The evidence has been posted in multiple threads today. Go look for it. It's not hard.
May I see it?
That's a BETAB-500.
No it isn't.
Get checks out. Vatniks BTFOd
Yes it is. Do you have any idea how big a Kinzhal is?
use the archive. That's hardly a new image and we've been over this before.
do you know how big I am? (don? don?)
So may I ask then, if Khinzal is impossible to intercept, and fools Patriotgays into angerspamming 30 missiles uselessly with this one neat trick, why haven't the three Patriot batteries, the runways and taxiway intersections of every base Storm Shadow can be launched from, and the freight railway stations at Lviv, all been turned into smoking craters?
Better querstion, why did Russia ape out and fling 17 Kinzhals at the patriot battery by Kyiv the day after they reported shooting one down. If it didn't shoot it down why would you do that?
If you wanted to disprove enemy's propaganda you'd send maybe one or two, not 17. Which the patriot battery prompty shot down I'll add.
Fair point
The russian commanders must have been freaking out when the reality finally sets in that the promised 'invincible' weapon didn't work as intended, failed to destroy one (1) part of the patriot and even using every available missile mustered for the second attack didn't work.
>If this doesn't work, what ELSE doesn't?
Of course, you should never underestimate your enemy lest your arrogance and hubris comes back to bite you. But I feel russia won't learn from this.
See
like a china says
not real hypersonic
just better ballistic
must admit that improved PAC is generally good enough for such a threat
instead need something inspired from Pershing II
Kinzhal isn't a true HGV and is just an Iskander launched from the air. PAC-3s from the 90s could kill Mach 8 terminal MARVs with depressed trajectories so there's nothing new there. If you assume that Kinzhal WAS a true HGV, then there's the implication that boost gliders trade speed for stealthier flight profiles. HGV's glide to the target and are released at lower altitudes where air is thicker, unless the vehicle is powered (it's not - hence boost glide) that means it's bleeding energy the entire flight and especially during maneuvers. So harder to detect but slower and I'd say it's a toss up if PAC-3 is up to that, the speed wouldn't be the problem, but the trajectory and time to react might. Russia also wouldn't be able to saturate batteries with HGV Kinzhals either. Biggest salvo I've seen was maybe 10 or 12 at once.
The difference between a MARV and a HGV is important, but it's not that huge and I personally see HGV's as just a MARV subvariant, more of a lateral upgrade than a true game changing evolution. When you use a MARV you want to deliver a fast strike to a target, in exchange you accept a flight profile that is more easily detected by radar and more predictable, while still being able to maneuver. When you use an HGV you accept a more energy inefficient flight profile and slower speed (still fricking fast however), in exchange for being much harder detect. It's literally the old meme of ballistic missiles go real fast and loud and cruise missiles go real slow and quiet. HGV's offer an expensive middle ground of I wanna go kinda fast and a little more quiet.
Slow, cool and quiet will always be > than fast, hot and loud.
this is correct. I think airbreathing hypersonic cruise missiles will be the real serious advancement as opposed to boost gliders, though HGVs/MARVs will still be pretty relevant. Implications of reliable airbreathing hypersonic engines are yuge.
I liked that the cope shifted to BETAB but just prior it was "well Kinzhal isn't even a REAL hypersonic like zircon" and proceeded to post a 140p shaky video recorded on garlic bread of a ship 700m firing something. I just want to see one of these things. Avangard doesn't even make sense when you would never have to worry about piercing an air defense system because a full nuclear attack would saturate anything anyone could ever afford to deploy against you. You literally cannot possibly shoot down all the incoming warheads mixed with decoys so making a nuke boost glider to complicate targeting is just a waste.
youre making fun of might russian army ??????
That's it, /misc/ said the gloves are coming off this time and will annihilate /k/
I hope you guys are ready for what's coming for you in exactly two weeks !