Who would win?

Pic not related so maybe people will actually read the OP.

Team 1: A fire team (4-5 men) of Instagram "operators" à la Lucas B*tkins with all the gucci gear that's legal for civilians to own of their choosing. (No fully auto/burst, RPGs, etc).

Team 2: A platoon (40-60 men) that consists of 50% rednecks and 50% disaffected yuppies with minimal to no firearms experience. They're ONLY ARMED with mosin nagents including bayonets. The leadership are all combat vets, but the regular rifleman are either just rednecks or yuppies with no significant military or combat experience.

Running out of ammo is not a concern for either side. Also the engagement begins when both groups spot each other 100 yards apart after each cresting a hill separated by a saddle.

Also feel free to do the same scenario, but change Team 1 to actual US special forces with access to military weapons (autos, rockets, etc) however only what they can bring themselves, no mortars, airstrikes, etc.

  1. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    Depends on other factors not listed in the scenario, its 50/50

    • 2 months ago
      Anonymous

      I'll humor you, what other factors would you want to know?

      • 2 months ago
        Anonymous

        Knowledge of the environment, amount of time spent in locale, time of day. I know you said ammo is not a concern but I'm assuming each has a standard loadout IE team 1 has a regular 6+1 magazine loadout, team 2 has 50 rounds per Mosin. I'm also assuming team 1 is prepped for regular recon in their terrain, which does change their other equipment

        • 2 months ago
          Anonymous

          >Knowledge of the environment
          Central Texas in the Summer. (>95F)
          Lots of Juniper trees (basically giant bushes like pic related and we'll through in some bolders that can be used as proper cover.
          >Time of day
          10-11 AM. Sun is up high enough to not make looking into the sun an issue in any direction. Both sides are fresh and began their movements early this morning (5-7 AM).
          >Missions
          Team 1 is trying to escape from one area to another area they control that has supplies and they expected resistance. So they have minimal sustainment as they're traveling 1-2 days to their controlled area and they expected resistance so their gear is taliored for combat versus survival. (They all have level 4 plates).

          We'll say Team 2's faction is besieging the controlled area Team 1 is moving to and Team 2 itself is patrolling for people trying to go to the controlled area with lots of supplies.
          >Ammo
          For this scenario we'll say they have a normal combat load, but they're magazines/clips magically replenish so it doesn't end with
          >Team X ran out of ammo first.

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            forgot pic

            • 2 months ago
              Anonymous

              >Victory conditions
              Team 1 is willing to fight to the death. However Team 2 will route after receiving 50 percent casualties, however will be quite highly motivated before that point.

  2. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    I feel the rednecks are the wildcard, they could be absolutely useless or one of them could be a goddamn crack shot that solos the operators himself

    • 2 months ago
      Anonymous

      It's a mixed bag of crackshot bushcrafters and fat bubbas who can't hit a dear past 50 yards with a scope. Although none of them are so good they could solo it (also Team 1 had level IV plates).

      • 2 months ago
        Anonymous

        You don't need many crack shots to put a serious fucking on the enemy, especially at 100 yards. And while the fat fucks can't hit the broad side of a barn, at least they're laying down suppressing fire and keeping people's heads down.

        • 2 months ago
          Game-Master (OP)

          We'll say that team 2 is broken up into squads initially, however they're all 2 - 10 minutes away. So initially only one squad of team 2 comes into contact with team 1. Regardless of anything team 1 does, team 2's squad sees them and notifies the other squads with an airhorn or whistle and they'll trickle in one at a time and they all guestimate the rough location and direction of travel of the squad that made contact. (So when they arrive they're able to roughly get on line).

          Tripfagging because I"m going to go run some errands and don't want someone to impersonate me, although y'all feel free to make your own variants I guess.

    • 2 months ago
      Anonymous

      I was going to say the same thing, but we're told that all of that squad has minimal firearms experience so it's not like we're getting anyone who has been shooting since they were five.
      What is interesting is that the leadership of the platoon is all combat vets. How many guys we talking, that could be quite a force on their own.

  3. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    It's a strange question really, I'd ordinarily give to to the Gucci boys easily. I'd expect them to have good camo, drones (at least for recon if nothing else), comms, NODs/Thermals, better ability to observe thanks to good binocs, etc. This means they ought to be aware of the platoon of goobers long before the goobers were aware of them. And honestly, if the leadership of the mosin guys aren't retards they'd have some men out doing scouting and recon as well, so the whole scenario suggests utter failures from both sides before the fight has even started.

    If we say this is some kind of magical shit where both groups get teleported to a place never has been before and gets told: those guys are the enemy" it comes down to terrain. If it's all clear I think the mosin guys have a good chance of pinning down and killing the gucci guys by leveraging advantage of numbers. If the terrain offers cover or concealment then all the gucci guys have to do is break contact long enough for it to turn dark and then they use their NV & thermals.

    • 2 months ago
      Anonymous

      idk why I forgot about NVGs/thermals. See the scenario in

      >Knowledge of the environment
      Central Texas in the Summer. (>95F)
      Lots of Juniper trees (basically giant bushes like pic related and we'll through in some bolders that can be used as proper cover.
      >Time of day
      10-11 AM. Sun is up high enough to not make looking into the sun an issue in any direction. Both sides are fresh and began their movements early this morning (5-7 AM).
      >Missions
      Team 1 is trying to escape from one area to another area they control that has supplies and they expected resistance. So they have minimal sustainment as they're traveling 1-2 days to their controlled area and they expected resistance so their gear is taliored for combat versus survival. (They all have level 4 plates).

      We'll say Team 2's faction is besieging the controlled area Team 1 is moving to and Team 2 itself is patrolling for people trying to go to the controlled area with lots of supplies.
      >Ammo
      For this scenario we'll say they have a normal combat load, but they're magazines/clips magically replenish so it doesn't end with
      >Team X ran out of ammo first.

      labelled "Missions"
      We'll say Team 1 has NVGs/Thermals, however time is of the essence to get to their factions location that's being sieged by team 2's faction.
      >Time condition
      If they wait to engage at night they greatly increase the chance of their faction losing the siege, especially since breaking contact would likely require back tracking or side tracking and not making progress towards the objective.

      Also completely sneaking through at night isn't an option for entertainment purposes.

      • 2 months ago
        Anonymous

        >See the scenario in

        >Knowledge of the environment


        Central Texas in the Summer. (>95F)
        Lots of Juniper trees (basically giant bushes like pic related and we'll through in some bolders that can be used as proper cover.
        >Time of day
        10-11 AM. Sun is up high enough to not make looking into the sun an issue in any direction. Both sides are fresh and began their movements early this morning (5-7 AM).
        >Missions
        Team 1 is trying to escape from one area to another area they control that has supplies and they expected resistance. So they have minimal sustainment as they're traveling 1-2 days to their controlled area and they expected resistance so their gear is taliored for combat versus survival. (They all have level 4 plates).

        We'll say Team 2's faction is besieging the controlled area Team 1 is moving to and Team 2 itself is patrolling for people trying to go to the controlled area with lots of supplies.
        >Ammo
        For this scenario we'll say they have a normal combat load, but they're magazines/clips magically replenish so it doesn't end with
        >Team X ran out of ammo first. labelled "Missions"
        Yeah, sorry, I was still typing when you posted the mission so I hadn't seen it when I wrote my reply. Anyway, given the following changes to my assumptions:
        1)The nighttime situation is out
        2) Half the rednecks are great shots. That's what, about 10 guys if we assume half the platoon are rednecks and half the rednecks are good shots?
        3) Leadership of the platoon are experienced vets--maybe not "crack shots" but still competent.
        That's a pretty big swing in favor of the mosin platoon. The terrain and the urgency have taken away most of the advantage the gucci guy's gear would offer. Plates are good and all but it's only a matter of time before someone catches a frag, gets shot in the leg or head, etc.

        • 2 months ago
          Game-Master (OP)

          Yeah, honestly this though I analyzed it a little differently.
          Team 1: 5 semi-competent combatants whose only real gear advantage is the armor. The short distance, the terrain, and the urgency have taken away most of the benefits they had in their fancy gear.

          Team 2:
          6-8 experienced combat vets (leadership)
          10 expert shots
          30 generic riflemen

          >10 expert shots
          They can just be basic riflemen like the rest of them. That doesn't change that a platoon with actual leadership that can at least do basic maneuvers will push in the shit of a fireteam that doesn't have enough guys to reasonably do significant maneuvers. So long as the rednecks and yuppies being lead can remotely follow orders, that fireteam could quickly be put into a position where they're taking fire from multiple directions that will negate their advantage of firepower per team member.

          Since it seems we're thinking Team 2 will win. Would it change much if Team 1 is now a 8-10 man squad? Remember initially Only 1 squad of Team 2 is in contact with them. So some sort of taking squads out 1 by 1 could be feasible for Team 1 now.

          We'll also add that the 50% casualties causes a route applies at the squad level. However routed members are likely to regroup with intact squads.
          ie if Team 1 inflicts 50% casualties on the first squad, the remaining 5-6 route, and most of them regroup with other squads.

          • 2 months ago
            Game-Master (OP)

            Okay new scenario.
            Team 1 quickly inflicts 50% casualties on the first squad. They route and the survivors regroup with each of the other squads telling them what happened and where. The location information is no longer precise, as Team 1 has had enough time to move, but not escape the area. The other 3 squads start off too far apart to maneuver together and so are operating independently and are all moving toward the last known location of Team 1 and expecting the other squads are doing the same.

            • 2 months ago
              Anonymous

              Team 2 fucks off into the bushes because half a squad just got wiped and they now also don't know where the enemy is, thus retreat and regroup is the most sane option.
              >team 2 is not sane
              Team 2 gets fucking wiped by a defeat in detail strategy because they aren't leveraging their numbers properly and I presume team 1 is Gucci enough to bring relatively quiet guns with suppressors

              • 2 months ago
                Game-Master (OP)

                Why would the squad have to flee to tell the other squads? Blister pack FRS radios are dirt cheap, and squad leaders have used radios to coordinate since Vietnam. Even the poorest poorfag platoon would have radios for squad leaders.

                I say team 2 but If team 1 gets a belt fed LMG that changes the equation.

                Okay, now Team 2 has radios and squads 2 and 3 are able to get into pic related position before they route. Squad 4 is off map to the right. What they do is up to you.

                (Pic not to scale and individual positions not representative. Just to give you an idea of squad's direction of travel/fire).

              • 2 months ago
                Anonymous

                Wait, because chances are team 1 will try to finish whatever their objective is, and we have a very nice ambush spot.

                I'm talking about the mega-fudd ones who think you need 30-06 to shoot a dear at a hundred yards and set their deer stand up 30 yards from their feeder and use a 8x24 scope for said shot.
                [...]
                yes

                >6-10 combat vets
                So a 1/5 of the force that can probably actually shoot their rifle well with probably 30 or so remaining after the initial casualties? In that case team 2 wins because a bullet is a bullet and I'm pretty sure 54r will go through a helmet if it's a good hit

              • 2 months ago
                Game-Master (OP)

                I didn't think about that. Team 1 won't know where the other 3 squads are at the beginning so that gives them the chance to do some sneeki breeki stuff.

            • 2 months ago
              Anonymous

              Why would the squad have to flee to tell the other squads? Blister pack FRS radios are dirt cheap, and squad leaders have used radios to coordinate since Vietnam. Even the poorest poorfag platoon would have radios for squad leaders.

  4. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    >a fireteam of modern gucci instagram LARPer riflemen vs a platoon of riflemen with WWI tier equipment and leaders who have had some combat experience
    The platoon wins.

    • 2 months ago
      Anonymous

      Yeah, honestly this though I analyzed it a little differently.
      Team 1: 5 semi-competent combatants whose only real gear advantage is the armor. The short distance, the terrain, and the urgency have taken away most of the benefits they had in their fancy gear.

      Team 2:
      6-8 experienced combat vets (leadership)
      10 expert shots
      30 generic riflemen

      • 2 months ago
        Anonymous

        >10 expert shots
        They can just be basic riflemen like the rest of them. That doesn't change that a platoon with actual leadership that can at least do basic maneuvers will push in the shit of a fireteam that doesn't have enough guys to reasonably do significant maneuvers. So long as the rednecks and yuppies being lead can remotely follow orders, that fireteam could quickly be put into a position where they're taking fire from multiple directions that will negate their advantage of firepower per team member.

  5. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    I say team 2 but If team 1 gets a belt fed LMG that changes the equation.

  6. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    >A platoon (40-60 men) that consists of 50% rednecks and 50% disaffected yuppies with minimal to no firearms experience. They're ONLY ARMED with mosin nagents including bayonets. The leadership are all combat vets, but the regular rifleman are either just rednecks or yuppies with no significant military or combat experience.
    moron show me a group of sixty rednecks none of whom regularly hunt or go to the range.

    • 2 months ago
      Game-Master (OP)

      I'm talking about the mega-fudd ones who think you need 30-06 to shoot a dear at a hundred yards and set their deer stand up 30 yards from their feeder and use a 8x24 scope for said shot.

      >The leadership are all combat vets
      So six to ten combat veterans? With fifty cannon fodder vs 5 guys with a lot of training and expensive gear but no combat experience?

      yes

  7. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    >The leadership are all combat vets
    So six to ten combat veterans? With fifty cannon fodder vs 5 guys with a lot of training and expensive gear but no combat experience?

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