>entire Western world finally adopts ARs
>USA suddenly a battle rifle that's not even in a fucking NATO caliber
How the UTTER FUCK is this allowed?!
Who the fuck authorized this?
>entire Western world finally adopts ARs
>USA suddenly a battle rifle that's not even in a fucking NATO caliber
How the UTTER FUCK is this allowed?!
The rifle isn't the important part, the LMG is.
What a terrible, whiny thread.
For the manufacturers, wouldn't that be good timing? The customers just bought the previous stuff - now it's time to change caliber for the Next Big Thing
>How the UTTER FUCK is this allowed?!
The US can logistically supply a full scale war anywhere in the world using their own non-NATO ammo without having any worry in the world about running out.
NATO standards make sense for NATO countries, but the US can ignore it if we want, we're large enough that if we want to make something non-standard work, we can.
Obviously this would be retarded for Poland or a similar nation to do this since in case of war Poland will NEED NATO standard ammo, but the US isn't in that position.
>The US can logistically supply a full scale war anywhere in the world
must be why ukraine is winning so hard!
must be why ukraine has so much ammo!
must be why the big offensive™ is on time, and under budget!
>holding off the 'second best army in the world' by giving the ukrops pocket lint, some weekend workshops, and a rounding error from our budget
you will never have indoor plumbing
meanwhile, IRL
the US banking system is in literal actual collapse, Europe has been utterly emptied of its military stocks, so much so, the largest economies in europe have enough 'ammo' for 8hrs of sustained ukraine-shit combat and the average westerner is so demoralized they would sing with glee to watch their own nations capitals be bombed into ash by Russia+China
but yah," i have brown hands typing" or something about india
poland needs to become an irradiated wasteland, there is simply no other solution left for the sane world
(You) don’t spend it all in one place
>t. I have no clue what the fuck I’m talking about
go to bed armatard
someone said ukraine is losing and Russia is winning!
better do something, QUICK!
weak bait
have a pity (you)
>Seethes about Ukraine in a thread not about Ukraine.
I'm sure you are totally neutral and not just another zigger crying over nobody taking his shithole sodomy kingdom seriously anymore.
Hoholstan lives rent free in the tint vatnik head
the us isnt donating everything they have dipshit theyre only donating what ukraine wants inside of a budgeted package
ie if the us says theyre sending $60 million in aid ukraine can ask for 60$ million worth of bullets or tanks or shells
Every fucking country can start using their own nonstandard ammunition you massive retard. It just completely defeats the idea behind standard equipment.
You're delusional, at BEST a handful of countries in NATO are capable of supplying their own ammo in the event of a war.
The rest would simply not be capable even if they wanted to.
Nonsense, making small arms ammo is easy as fuck. Any NATO state could set up a line for their preferred gucci calibre if they wanted to.
making small arms ammo is easy, making enough to supply your military in the event of a war where your ammo manufacturing could be targeted in strikes against your military industrial base. Great, now you're relying on only the ammo you happened to still have in storage, and hope to god some ally can set up production of your meme caliber in time to save you.
As I said, the US is realistically the only NATO nation that can easily afford to do this. The US probably also has the most small arms ammo stockpiled of any country on earth and even if they stopped 5.56 production today, could probably sustain a 5 year war anywhere on the planet using just 5.56 they have in reserves.
they ironically made a pretty potential DMR
100%. All the ingredients are there. High overbore ratio, high pressure, and long ogive.
The US can do whatever it wants. In top of, its not like the spear is going to be adopted en masse.
itll have a couple thousand fulfilled in the contract, some random specops will fingerfuck them once in a while, and the rest will just sit around and pop up at random.
I figure that in the end it won't be used for everything an M4 is used for, but it will be used for everything an AR10 or a SCAR or a clapped out fuckin' M14 or Remington 700 was being used for
This is precisely the case, it's for DMR's and cool guys, even if the army gave it to half of everyone the marines aren't using it, and neither are the navy or airforce, nor the space force, nor the national guards nor coast guards. And at it's price point, almost no civilians either, so no economic incentive for aftermarket improvement which trickles back to military guns.
>Price point
You KNOW people will max out their cards to have what the MILITARY has.
-OR-
PSA'll release a PA10 in .277 Fury for $600 dollars and laugh in Ronnie's face.
I don't see how the army justifies 120,000 DMRs unless they're adding 2-3 DMRs to EVERY squad.
>unless they're adding 2-3 DMRs to EVERY squad.
They should...
Great now you've got two guns that shoot 5.56 and 1 gun that shoots 6.8, so instead of sharing ammo commonality throughout everyone in the squad, some people will have special ammo.
No thanks
The DMRs should use 7.62x51 obviously.
How does that help?
Your M4's and M249s are still using 5.56
That's STILL 2 ammo types in the squad and meaning you can't just share ammo willy nilly.
I wasn't addressing your whiny complaint, I was addressing
>6.8
So you're a moron?
6.8 or not doesn't really matter, it could be .300 WM, .338, .50BMG, I don't care.
The point is mixing ammo types at the squad level goes against the current thinking and it's simply not a good idea.
Of course it matters, NATO forces should be using NATO standards.
>but American logistics
Yeah no shit, but wiping our asses with the standards is bad decorum.
We're still producing 5.56 at the same rate, we're still producing 7.62 at the same rate, and we're still fielding HUNDREDS of thousands of M4s, M16s, M249s, and M240s.
The army also adopted .300NM and .338NM for sniper rifles, those aren't NATO standard either you dumb gay but I don't see you bitching about that move. ~120,000 rifles and ~25,000 LMGs chambered in 6.8x51 is not some insult to NATO you absolute retard.
>>The army also adopted .300NM and .338NM for sniper rifles, those aren't NATO standard either
And that is shameful.
No you're right, the US should stop all small arms development and innovation since anything new wont be NATO standard.
Are you russian or just doing your best to act like a russian?
>since anything new wont be NATO standard.
Or here's an idea: amend the standard before adopting new rifle cartridges.
That's not how NATO standards have ever worked.
So no.
You don't create a NATO standard, you create a caliber and if it gets widely adopted it CAN become a NATO standard.
If 6.8x51 is useful enough it may one day (in 10-20 years) become a NATO standard too.
The potential usefulness of a cartridge should be something they can evaluate in a lab before fielding it. Just shoot at some pigs if normal ballistic tests aren't good enough.
Again, you have no idea how NATO standards get established.
You don't make a NATO standard for a round that hasn't even made it out of testing yet, and you sure as fuck don't make it a NATO standard without YEARS of in-the-field usage.
5.7x28 has been in service since 1990, it didn't get NATO standardized until 2021.
What do you hope to learn from field usage of a rifle cartridge that couldn't be learned in a lab?
...how about how it performs in the field?
Long-term ware and logistics as well as examining failure rates and determining if it's the gun, or the round, etc.
What trials do you think they haven't been through? They're getting fielded in a few months to active duty units.
>Long-term ware and logistics as well as examining failure rates and determining if it's the gun, or the round, etc.
These are things you should put time and money into figuring out BEFORE you field soldiers with unreliable equipment.
Lol we live in reality kiddo, take your fantasy prefect world and keep it in your mind.
You're telling me the M-16 fouling issues in Vietnam arising from the substitution of ball powder for 5.56 couldn't have been discovered in the lab? They had to send soldiers into a warzone with shitty ammo to figure it out? Seems like BS to me. They rushed it into the field with inadequate testing and it caused problems for men in life and death situations. They should have done more testing before adopting it.
evidently it took guntoubers a single mud-test to demonstrate how shitty the SIG-shit rifle was
wonder how SIG didnt find this very same thing out...?makes you wonder....
did THEY even test it??
I thought he was just memeing about it being a bad idea, since it's already a bad idea with splitting 5.56 and 7.62
>But hold on Ronnie Cohen says!
>We'll remove 7.62 entirely!
>Better yet, EVERYONE will get 6.8!
>No more logistical problems! So what if we're carrying 60% or more less ammunition! Our magic aimbot scopes mean our boys will never miss!
Something like that?
Basically every team leader and squad leader.
I think it will be somewhat similar to the way Garands and M1 Carbines were used in WWII
The real question is why wouldn't NATO switch to a US caliber? We produce much more than any of NATO could and if someone is going to provide ammo its us in a war.
The US produces metric fuck loads of almost every caliber just for the civilian market so even old soviet countries can make use of our civilian tier weapons logistics for small weapons
Shut up I want surplus M855A1 and I want it now.
>hasnt realised that nato is a us power grab in europe and that europe doesnt have any power
I LOVE NATO I LOVE NATO I LOVE NATO
Being one step ahead of every other country is why America is number 1.
This new rifle will have a bullet that can blast through Russian body armor & it has a scope that can auto aim headshots from 2000 yards.
The worst part is they named it wrong. "MCS Spear". It's not a spear, it's a rifle. MORONS.
OP you should let your other thread 404 first before creating yet another copy of it
Is it an assblasted unironic industry shill from Textron? Who the fuck keeps making the exact same fucking threads bitching about this rifle and why exactly? It's the same rifle it was during the first 2000 threads about this. Literally the more anti-XM7 shilling goes on the more I support its adoption out of pure fucking spite to the no-life crybabies that keep bitching about a weapon most of them will NEVER even fire. Literally every NGSW thread is the same Fudd-tier retardation and the same caliber and energy discussions. How the fuck do you literally have the same discussion about the *SAME RIFLE AND CALIBER* every other fucking day?
>inb4 "lolol you're mad about talking about the same raifu but you prolly live in /ARG/
Choose any random five AR-15 carbines and they're probably all made by different companies to different tolerances with different furniture and might even have different operating systems, maybe even different calibers, with different applications based on all those factors in combination or individually.
The XM7 is *STILL* the same XM7 it was when it was adopted. Holy shit.
>Who the fuck keeps making the exact same fucking threads bitching about this rifle and why exactly?
PrepHole is like a broken record and loves to repeat itself near constantly, over half the stuff ITT has already been discussed to death but the bots still keep going
>we want to disarm US citizens after our Communist shitheels seize enough of the government and institutions of civil society
>we want to fuck reloading and limit brass
>we want reduced small arms infrastructure to facilitate invasion and occupation following nuclear first strikes and degrade the final obstacle to world socialist revolution
It sounds grandiose, but someone somewhere in the state apparatus is thinking along these lines with the program, whatever the budgetary boondoggle incentives and true believers in the pgrogram intend(ed).
What the fuck are you talking about?
I fucking know you gay, you’ve been posting this schizo shit in every xm5 thread for what now, a year? Just take your meds already you deranged piece of shit.
>mfw army brass finds out their wonder bullet cannot penetrate level 4 armor
It’s funny how bad GWOT brain rot has gotten
Weird, it was never even part of the program requirements so I'm not sure why they'd be shocked by that news.
You can go read the original PPON or RFP.
Retard, look up what was said about the ICSR program that directly lead into NGSW. ADVAP rounds were directly created because of muh advanced armors, there's even congressional testimony about it.
So programs that aren't NGSW cool story.
So tell me again when and where the NGSW ever said it was trying to pen level 4 armor.
I'll wait.
Get absolutely fucked you massive retard
https://www.armytimes.com/news/your-army/2022/04/20/army-expects-next-generation-squad-weapon-to-get-to-its-first-unit-by-next-year/
https://www.military.com/daily-news/2019/10/27/inside-armys-quest-revolutionary-new-bullet.html
The Chinese don't have level 4 armor.
They have rigs stuffed with foam.
I'm not military and never will be. Why can't I have one that's not gimped to semi-auto
Technically they haven’t even been through all the Trials. I won’t be surprised if they used this in the 7.62x51 role and keep using 5.56 but who knows
>forward assist
I pray to Satan to kill all the boomers
>I pray to Satan to kill all the boomers
spotted the gay who's never been around newbies with AR's
guess how many of them fail to properly seat the first round, GUESS
Guess what the forward assist specifically fixes
I am military and use an AR platform all the time and I am honestly curious about the hatred for forward assists, I never notice it is there outside of rifle drill movements and I have never had a stoppage that I believe was caused by anything other than a feed issue. I'm a leaf too so our rifles are fucking haggard.
Please explain?
>Entire Western world finally adopts .308
>USA suddenly adopts an assault rifle that's not even in a fucking NATO caliber
every single time
So you're saying the solution is to quickly have all NATO countries adopt the Spear and we can save the M4 out of sheer contrarianism?
One thing I don't like about this gun is how much of a boogeyman it is for anti-gunners to point to
>it was made to defeat body armor!
>it's literally twice as powerful as an AR-15!
And you know gullible newswatchers will eat it up. All this over 200-400 fps and a few inches of barrel
>MCX Spear
Looks like it has Peyronie's disease.
Imagine wanting to use this garbage when you could have 5.56 with a hybrid case instead lulz.
This guy gets it.
>Protip: NOVX sells ammo in hybrid cases in case you want to experiment. Shellshock cases never ever tho.
Novx is using shellshock cases, and shellshock themselves are selling 300 blackout cases in quantaties up to 10 000 on their website
Neat, I thought they were different cases. Not super interested in 300BLK cases though, I'm more focused on the 5.56 stuff.
>Inb4 bubba stuffs 25grs of CFE223 into his Shellshock 300BLK case
>Inb4 125gr, 3kfps, 8" barrel
>Inb4 125gr, 3kfps, 8" barrel
thats honestly not that far out
>NovX
I'll be watching their career with great interest >_>
I'll probably record it, don't worry.
If I ain't getting 77gr TMK's doing at LEAST 3200fps from a Mk.18, I ain't trying.
>>USA suddenly a battle rifle that's not even in a fucking NATO caliber
USA IS NATO
Should have adopted .270 British back in the day. Better than 6.8 Sneedmore.
We tricked all our NATO subordinates into adopting 5.56 ARs before switching to the Spear. Now they'll all have to pay even more money to catch up to us. It's called separating retarded foreigners from their money and it's based.
Anyone else lost all interest in what the military has adopted or is going to?
I remember caring way back in the day but honestly I don't believe the US has enough time left for their potential adoption of this shit for it to have any effect on me whatsoever
The army did something similar to what the marines did when they adopted the M27.
Milley got his OVERMATCH DMR by selling it as a standard issue rifle to secure the massive funding required for adopting new and risky technology. They also got a kickass LMG out of the deal.
bump
>western world adopts AR's
In which fucking universe?!
Ours
I feel like it will take at least a decade before even the US adjusts to the new caliber/doctrine. Maybe they'll drop in, but it could also become the new standard NATO doctrine, probably not any time soon tho.
>ANOTHER white-background-google-images OP with a banal topic