I want a DA/SA, full-size handgun with good aesthetics. I am between the HK Mark 23 and the Beretta M9/M9A1. Please submit your vote as to which I should get. I will be tallying at the end of the hour.
Which handgun should I get?
I want a DA/SA, full-size handgun with good aesthetics. I am between the HK Mark 23 and the Beretta M9/M9A1. Please submit your vote as to which I should get. I will be tallying at the end of the hour.
CZ P09
Good gun but doesn’t turn me on as much as the other two
HK P30L
Mk23.
>But why?
Is cooler.
M9 is cheaper, smaller and more aesthetic. Get that one.
>trips of lies
The Mk.23 drips SOVL compared to the M9. Especially when properly kitted out
>Verification Not Required
Good luck CCing that
Entirely 2 different guns and use cases. The MK23 was meant as an "offensive" gun which is completely overshadowed in that role by the FN 5.7 and other 5.7 guns and the FK BRNO PSD which has tons of ass behind it. You can get a Dan Wesson in 10mm for that money too
Anyways if this is for a FIRST gun, then get a 92 variant. I prefer 92G model dewienerer only personally
Nobody mentioned CCing or a first gun. We're looking for a full-size handgun with good aesthetics. And, you know what, damn if the Mark 23 ain't it.
>Anyways if this is for a FIRST gun
It’s not. I’ve got a Glock 19 and an AR right now.
>Good luck CCing that
You say that like the M9 is much better.
It absolutely is. Not only is the Beretta 5oz lighter than the MK23, but the grip of the Beretta is comparable to the size of a Glock 19 in length. Many people with large hands actually dislike the Beretta for this reason, they feel their pinky is close to hanging off the bottom. Though they come with fat grips, the grip length itself is more like a compact than a full size. I still think it's too heavy to CC comfortably all day, but it prints way less than my Glock 17. And what makes it even cooler is that despite being small in the grip, you can get 18 round flush fitting mags for it.
But anon doesn't seem like he's interested in CC
>which is completely overshadowed in that role by the FN 5.7 and other 5.7 guns and the FK BRNO PSD
lol
lmao, even
Why is the BRNO superior choice? Seems like a little bit of an over promise. Im not too familiar with them tho
>muh CC
>im SO SCARED of printing, guys
stfu homosexual
You are like a little baby
>Operator on the gun
Literally posting the version of the boomer special that tries to ape the Mk.23 the hardest.
Dang it’s almost like it’s a similar vibe but slimmer, sexier, and with a better trigger.
HK guns are overpriced with subpar ergonomics and it boggles my mind that people get so defensive about them.
people don't buy MK23 for function (even though it is bombproof). they buy it because it's a mk23.
>buy MK23 for function, they buy it because it's a mk23.
oh wow color me surprised that most people are fricking morons with no self control or standards
>Slimmer
I'll give you that one, but single stack is cheating
>Sexier
lol no
>better trigger
I have no reference on the mk23 trigger yet.
>I have no reference on the mk23 trigger yet.
It's not great.
The single action is pretty great. Smooth, no flex. The double action is very heavy.
>The single action is pretty great
But still not remotely comparable with a 1911.
there aren't many triggers that are comparable to a well-tuned 1911 trigger. It's a straight linear trigger, how many other examples of that do you know?
It's actually very good noguns. It's not one of the best triggers in the world, but it's FAR from being bad. At least the SA. The DA is definitely rough.
I don't think it can beat my LTT SA pull on my 92, less than 2mm of travel with #2.5 pound pull. DA 6-7 pound pull depending on hammer spring I use between #12 or #14.
That's a good SA pull. If you're spending 2000 dollars on a handgun it better have a good trigger, the Mark 23 is not going to have a bad trigger, it's just not going to be as good as a 1911/2011. 2 grand puts you into Dan Wesson territory, you could build a 2011 territory. You can buy a absolutely tuned to the gills 92 territory. You'll still shoot well with the mk 23 but it IMO isn't worth the squeeze unless you really want a mk 23, which everyone who buys one does. I have a USP .45 with trigger job, RDO/Match Weight (aluminum) for about 2000 dollars. No one buys a mk 23 because it's a 45 ACP/Super DA/SA, they buy it because it's a mk23 and says HK on the side of it.
fwiw, HK barrels are easily some of the best around. They last forever
I have an Elite LTT myself, I'm the anon who's been telling OP to go with an M9A1 and langdonize it if he doesn't just flat out get an LTT in the first place. I don't own an HK MK23, but I own a USP Elite 45 which has a match trigger and is supposedly handfitted by HK gunsmiths (something regular duty USPs don't get), and it is by far the nicest trigger on all my pistols including better than my LTT Elite, well, talking about the Single Action pull. I would agree with you that the DA and reset is superior on the Beretta. From all the research I've done, this fitted match trigger on the USP Elite is the exact same trigger used on the HK MK23, there's an anon who posts insane groups at 50 and 100 yards with his MK23, and I've done the same at 50 with my Elite so I believe it.
Who knows maybe I just got lucky and got the best worked on trigger by their best gunsmith, but the SA trigger pull on my USP Elite is above all others and comparable only to my SA revolvers.
Well do you have a match hammer on your elite?
https://langdontactical.com/beretta-92-match-hammer/
If you're asking about my Elite LTT, yes. Not only did I get it worked on by the gunsmiths over at LTT, but I went with all out with the NP3 internals. The SA trigger is still better on my USP Elite. Not by much, but it's still noticeable.
Exactly, you're moronic. Anyone who's shot both knows the single action trigger pull on the MK23 or match USP models is extremely good. The bad rep on the HK USP/MK23 trigger is attributed to it's double action pull. Which I admit is atrocious.
I remember renting one when I was younger and thinking the random Kimber 1911 range beater I had just shot felt a lot better
Implying you're not lying and implying you actually rented an actual MK23 or USP Elite, the problem in your comparison is two fold. For starters you're comparing it to a 1911 trigger which is incredibly hard to beat, it's the only trigger that I know of on a pistol that has a straight pull to the rear while every other pistol on earth uses a hinged trigger. This is why people still use 1911s or 2011s for competition despite the shitty mags, reliability issues, and the need to handfit and tune parts, for the unique trigger. Those HKs in question should be compared to other polymer framed or DA/SA guns. Otherwise revolvers mog all over any other semi auto. Secondly, range guns aren't good examples of a gun's potential. I've rented range guns that felt like complete shit because they're not cleaned or maintained in any way shape or form.
If it’s over $2k and SA capable I’m expecting a phenomenal trigger out the box. Would rather just buy a Staccato with that money.
Don't mention to him they weight around the same, kek.
>is that a paver in your pocket or are you just happy to see me
>goyslop: the gun
> I want to be silent, but also I have a bright white light
>I’m moronic, and don’t know how to practice light discipline, the post
Since when does light make noise
Only real chads tape crank emergency light radios to their guns.
It also has an IR and vis laser. IR for night vision. So yes, it's useful, moron.
Tacticool trash will never have soul
>shit capacity while being huge
>90s proprietary rail system
>ugly
No thanks
>shit capacity
12 rounds of .45 ACP is pretty good even by modern standards.
FNX is only .4” taller and gets 15 rounds. HK is notoriously/lazy shitty about magazine capacity, for example the VP9/P30. Took them up until a couple of years ago to start shipping them with 17 round mags on full size handguns.
Also didn’t mention the worst offender which is the HK45, full size double stack .45 ACP with only a 10 round capacity.
PX4 .45 only holds 9, 10 with the fat base plate.
Look, I like the SOCOM. I really do but it is literally the most built by committee gun ever made.
>smaller
You mean worse?
>pasta gun for 80's cocaine larp
>Mark 23 for 80's cyberpunk larp
Can't lose either way really.
Should have asked /hg/. The pasta-gat anons will take over your thread now
lol 2 entirely different guns, but hey...if you got the money for a mk23, you'll have the money for the Beretta in a short amount of time anyways.
>you'll have the money for the Beretta in a short amount of time anyways.
Not really, lol. I am just a 22 year old who works part-time while studying for the LSAT. But since I have no living expenses, I want to spend money on cool guns (for now).
>but since I have no living expenses, I want to spend money on cool guns
Based muddy-the-waters anon. Make sure to flex on /hg/ gays who have been saving up for the HK for 15 years and still can’t scrape together the cash.
If you actually want to become a shooter. Like gitgud, enter competitions, maybe take a class or two from a quality instructor, etc the Beretta is hands down the better option. It's way more practical. It has a huge selection of Holsters, lights, red dots, extended magazines, etc. Not to mention it's in 9mm which makes stock piling huge stacks of ammo more affordable. If you don't care about that, and want to own a gun simply to own one, the MK23 is a better choice from a collectors purpose
Join the Beretta club fren
You will never run out of opportunities to get the M9 or M9A3/A4 (which are better guns). You will always want MK23, so better to get it now and get it over with.
MK23 was my FIRST handgun (and actually my first ever firearm purchase) at 23 years old, I purchased it with leftover scholarship, grant and student loan money from my 5th year of undergrad right after I graduated and was broke otherwise. I have never regretted it.
If asking purely for collection purposes, you can't beat the HK Mark 23. It's an over built cool niche gun. But if you wanted a gun that was a bit more practical... one you could carry (not ideal but possible), a home defense/duty gun, or for competition, the M9A1 is by far the better option. Way more after market, way more magazine options and higher capacities, holsters, etc
I have an M9A1 I did a little upgrading to and it's basically as good as my Elite LTT. All you need is...
>An RDO slide from LTT or Vertec/m9a4 slide
>Trigger job in a bag kit
>Ultra Slim grips
You invest on those three things and you will have one of the best shooters, a "meta gun" if you will, and it will still come out way cheaper than an MK23.
Or just the M9A4 with all those features for the most part standard.
OP specifically asked between the MK23 and the M9A1, so I'm giving him a proper answer. That being said, the m9a4 has that shitty vertec grip that a lot of people with normal or bigger sized hands didn't like. Even JJ Recaza the mega manlet who just won the world shoot with the Beretta had to put that grip adapter to make it feel like the older style M9A1 grip. The dot mounting solution on the M9A4 sucks compared to Langdon's. So if you get an M9A1 for $500 like I did, you can then get those other parts and come out roughly to what a stock M9A4 comes out to. You get a more specialized and tuned to one's liking gun if you go that route.
Fair enough, anon. Those are excellent points.
LTT cut is 0.85 inches lower. It's not comparable. It has cowittness irons.
I like the vertec grip because you get to make it bigger. Full G10 wrap arounds (and the stock 92X wrap around) will have very aggressive texture on the backstrap, the checkering on my LTT isn't as much as what I can get on the 92X.
True, but there's one particular style of grip I enjoy and it's the VZ diamond pattern which I've found to give me the best grip. If hogue or Beretta did a g10 wrap around in that pattern I'd definitely go for one. But grip is a very subjective thing given hand size and shape.
>M9 with a RDS
That pic is exactly the kind of moronic Black person you'd expect to hate on a Beretta with a red dot.
If youre actually trying to be practical? 92. If you just want to be cool and don't mind spending $2000, Mark 23
Neither. Get a CZ 97B. Recently discontinued too, so will only go up in price.
M9 is cool, Mk23 is satisfying.
It's like picking between fricking your highschool crush behind the stands and making hot passionate love with your wife, both are great, but only one feels properly satisfying.
Oh that’s a good analogy.
Alright everyone, thank you for your participation. I have counted the votes and disregarded them entirely! I will be buying the MK23 after I’m paid for a few more work shifts.
Be warned the trigger on the MK23 is not great and never will be, the Beretta can potentially have a much better trigger pull.
Wrong. SA trigger pull is better on the HK MK23, and let's be honest, anons just starting to frick around with guns. He's not going to be caring about reset or training though the initial DA trigger pull. And if he does, those are things that can be worked on anyways.
>SA trigger pull is better on the HK MK23
what in moronation?!
I have both, MK23 trigger is noticeably lighter in S/A, even compared to my other Beretta 92 which has an upgraded trigger conversion unit from Wolff. However, I will say the Beretta trigger is slightly better in D/A, but not by much.
The old LAM units are dim as frick, lmao.
Only way to make them actually decent is by replacing the bulb with an LED module upgrade.
The Wolff trigger return unit is nothing compared to what could be done to the Beretta 92
A factory Mk23 should be around 4.7 pound SA pull, the official HK site lists a 5.17 pound pull.
>I have counted the votes and disregarded them entirely!
lmao
Nice
Idunno man, I know /k/ loves the Berettas, I've never been a particular fan, but even though I have big hands the Kekler & Heck just seems massive, and as much as I don't like the slide mounted safety on the Beretta it looks like its in an even worse spot on the HK. Are you absolutely sure it's gotta be one of these two? For the sake of the thread I guess I'll vote Beretta
You don’t NEED a handgun with more than 6 rounds, buy a revolver.
M9 hands down. Better trigger out of the box and if that's not good enough the LTT mod makes it even better for a simple swap. HK stock triggers are ass and the match trigger upgrade is both expensive and difficult
Kimber 1911
>.45 ACP
>7
>round
>capacity
Ruger*
Or spring for a Wilson Combat or Dan Wesson
> boat anchor with knobs in all directions to prevent carrying it
> overly large 45AARP
a regular USP would serve you better than either.
>boat anchor with knobs in all directions that prevent you from carrying it
How do you figure? Please state your case before I make fun of you.
MK23 is fun and I don't regret it at all but if I was only going to buy one of 92FS or MK23 I would buy the 92FS again and again. The wonder-9, perfected. It's right here at my desk right now. The MK23 is in the closet being a closet queen.
sig226 and cz75 are both better wonder nines
No
The Sig doesn't have half the features of the Beretta, and the CZ75 and it's descendants are nowhere near as reliable as the Beretta. Not to mention the CZs are heavier since they're steel framed as opposed to aluminum. Making them not ideal for carry.
Only a moron would buy a Mark 23 though.
Go check out a 92X RDO because it's more capable than a 92FS.
Noguns alert
Burts not a noguns. He's a no shoot. He's just your typical fat consumer moron that collects tools like barbies. In this particular case though, he is correct in that the MK23 is not practical. Which is weird coming from Burt since nothing he does is practical.
Pretty sure he doesnt care about how capable it is, think aesthetics are the main thing. I also would like a mark 23 eventually, but idk if id get it before a 92xi
I'm not dogging capability or vidya lust or anything else, there are plenty of good reasons to want a Mark 23, I mean price. A low enough price makes even the most stupid on-paper purchase worthwhile but this isn't that. The Mark 23 is really cool and it's a good gun, but you'd have to be a complete fool to spend $2,300+ on a Mark 23, it's absolutely not worth it
True, purely from a financial point of view buying a mark 23 is a pretty dumb decision lol
eh, really depends on use case, and how much enjoyment you get out of it. i'm financially responsible to a fault, it's taken a long time to realize it's ok to burn money on shit you don't need if it genuinely makes you happy. frick if i had a mk23 i'd get a chubby just looking at it, regardless of how it shoots. that's probably worth the price alone.
Look who's talking LOLOLOL. Are you even self aware?
I can't stand overpaying for a gun, and I damn sure didn't pay $2,300 for my Mark 23 lol
>hk homosexuals pay 2.3k for MIM
Lmao
It probably costs less than 400 to manufacture, it’s a fricking polymer frame
Neither did most people who bought them. They were going for way cheaper back then. However, those younger people will unfortunately have to pay up if they want to own one because there's something called inflation, you fat boomer frick. Everyone today is overpaying even for food, get it, tubby?
The gun is not worth that sum just like it wasn't worth $1,900 in 2017 or $1,700 in 2010 or $1,300 in 2000. It's perhaps worth half that given all the Mark 23 muh SOCOM muh SSSNAAAAAAAAAKKKKE muh Rising Sun context but realistically it's a $900 gun in 2023, existing as a LARP oriented overengineered less practical USP. USPs of course also currently being 200% overpriced as they're equivalent to any other polymer frame pistol on the market except they haven't grown in 30 years.
tl;dr Inflation is completely irrelevant and you've missed the point.
Beretta.
I would honestly suggest a full size USP with a match trigger over the MK23. The 23 is really more of a toy than anything else. To be fair, it is by far the lightest shooting .45 I've ever used and it would make an OK nightstand gun.
>MK23
>full size
A USP45 is full size. MK23 is fuller size
P99.
Always the correct answer
When I took my wife to get her first handgun she decided she either wanted one of these or a P2000. Ended up getting the HK because they only had one P99 and she wanted us to have matching guns.
Cute
I have a couple USPs and I like them. I do not have a Mk.23 and have no opinion on it, but if you see a USP for under $600 it is a good buy.