the body. even if the vest saves your life it hurts like frick to get hit with the force of a bullet. take a couple rounds and you'll still be floored.
There is a video of an old guy standing on one foot taking a shot to the chest point blank from a full sized rifle round and barely even moving.
Are you saying that Mike wouldn't absolutely floor an old man who is off balance in a singular punch?
when you think about it Newton's 3rd law means that the bullet can only deliver a blow that's as powerful as or less powerful than the recoil of the gun. if the recoil can't knock the shooter down the bullet won't knock the target down, assuming he's wearing a vest.
You idiots always frick this up and i hate you. The rifle has all kinds of recoil absorbing tech to soften shit for the shooter. Please continue fleshing out your theory id like everyone else in the class to know how stupid you are.
Stop talking out your ass. The NIJ armor specs are designed to only allow the amount of blackface deformation that will not cause lasting injury. Unless you are very frail you will not break bones if you get hit by a round that your plate is rated for.
we know exactly what happens when 7.62x51 hits a hard plate like ceramic, nothing special
marine was hit in the chest with one, he didnt even notice the hit due to all the adrenaline in him
another soldier was hit in the back, it only left some reddening as if he was slapped
and for a recent example, ukranian was hit by 7.62x54r in his armor piece
it left a bruise and just barely broke the skin but did not cause serious harm
and even that was due to failure of the armor, as it bulged out from the impact instead properly shattering
so no, unless you are hit with a cannonball of a round like .50bmg, you are not going to be hurt from the impact
hard armor simply spreads the impact over a wide area and slows down the energy transfer too much
at most you will feel like you got punched but you will definitely keep on going
This is about right. If you're able to make out specific body parts then you're a lucky duck and have the drop on him. Or a sniper, or weapons operator. Otherwise think about it, only his vitals are protected. If you shoot at a body-sized target enough it might hit his arms, face, groin, legs, hell even fricking up a few toes could take him out of the fight.
in the chest, long rifles should be able to shoot through armor so no issue there, just because you might not be leaking getting hit once in the plate doesn't mean you aren't fricked up/stopped
basically just shoot them more than once or twice or just shoot them 15 fricking times in the bone zone and eventually he will show you his butthole or 'sweet spot'
>long rifles should be able to shoot through armor
but they don't. pretty much all militaries issue L4s to grunts. >just because you might not be leaking getting hit once in the plate doesn't mean you aren't fricked up/stopped
generally speaking, getting shot in a plate doesn't do much other than startle you. unless you get hit with something mega spicy like 54R AP
>getting shot in a plate doesn't do much other than startle you
depends on the range and how much of a pussy the gay getting shot is
plates will fail after being shot multiple times, close range in a rough grouping should either be enough to keel almost anyone over to a non-plated spot on their body or the body armor itself will simply fail.
resident moronic homosexual mc'should've died has an example for you
i know those aren't lv4 mil spec plates BUT the kinetic energy is the same.
5.56/5.45 impacts on plates can definitely knock the wind out of someone or even put them on the ground depending on range. One interviewed Ukraine volunteer got hit in the back by friendly 5.45 and said he felt like someone shoved him hard into the ground.
The absolute minimum standard for Level III body armor is literally 6 rounds of .308 M80 ball, then consider that some plates will exceed the minimum and Level IV plates can usually withstand even more than that.
>The absolute minimum standard for Level III body armor is literally 6 rounds of .308 M80 ball, then consider that some plates will exceed the minimum and Level IV plates can usually withstand even more than that.
308 and x51 aren't the same thing. 308 has more chamber capacity and a higher max chamber pressure. There is no such thing as 308 M80 ball. Normally I wouldn't sperg out on something like this, but in the context of proofing details matter a lot.
Level 3 is not certified against 308 loads, and while most systems exceed the standard by enough that you'd be ok it would be a straight up gamble and people have died from doing dumb shit with plates and cartridges beyond their rating.
Lets say its a close range scenario hes charging you shooting you ready to kill you with full auto. Then you need too aim for head will be fastest way too completely incapacitate them with no other weird rng like getting shot 5-10 times that wasnt instantly capacitating and still killed you before he bleed out and died because you fell for some bullshit that you shouldnt aim for le head because its harder too hit. Other than a scenario like that just shoot bad guy.
First option is to just keep shooting. Modern body armor is designed to deform since it helps soak the kinetic energy. If you keep hitting the armor it's going to break.
Second option is go for the base of the throat. Most modern armors don't cover the throat too much and even if you miss high or low you'll probably hit something important
Last option is the legs. This is something you'd expect from a Tarkov player more than a soldier but it does happen.
>Modern body armor is designed to deform since it helps soak the kinetic energy.
No, it isn't. It's designed to deform as little as possible. Backface deformation is a fail criteria for NIJ, CRISAT etc.
What about frontface deformation? Interior deformation? Of course the back isn't supposed to deform but modern ceramic plates are designed to be shattered when shot.
T zone or T box, headshots are hard as shit against a moving target outside of range conditions. Aim for center mass and hit it a couple times until they stop shooting at you.
Wait a minute so if you get hit by around it will hurt depending on the round/and gun it can break break bones why don’t people just wear something similar to a gambeson
>Wait a minute so if you get hit by around it will hurt depending on the round/and gun it can break break bones
it wont unless you are wearing soft armor and are hit by a shotgun blast
> why don’t people just wear something similar to a gambeson
hardplates come with a trauma pad under, which is usually just foam or rubber
it helps cushion the hit a bit
which is why the idea that a hit to level IV plates can injure via blunt trauma is dumb
Ah I see my question is quite moronic literally having a cushion underneath the armor is what most militaries use and if a regarded nation did issue gambeson is would I turn make it harder for combat medics to save people because of the thick gambeson and the problem of overheating
Buy better ammo that can penetrate the armor or you shoot enough bullet that the armor fail and some bullet can get through. What I prefer is aiming for the leg with buckshot but you need to be closer to the target.
t. Tarkov expert
With some spicy AP rounds, you can just shoot through armor.
It's pretty expensive though, I think SLAP is even better than standard tungsten AP. You can practice and train with plastic and standard. Then load AP ammo when it matters, for cost reasons, then it is affordable.
No armor will withstand continuous fire from rifles and heavy armor don't properly protect your sides. So you can fire down effectively at your enemies' flanks.
you still shoot center mass. my drill senior drill sargeant told us that in his personal experience decomposing homies in iraq and afghanistan a 7.62x39 round will be caught by your standard issues iotv and ceramic plate. The second round may get caught, but after that second round that plate is compromised. That third bullet is going to go right through you. He said he never saw a towelhead shoot in semi auto either. He said dont fricking get shot privates.
On the not armor
Nice try Ivan
the body. even if the vest saves your life it hurts like frick to get hit with the force of a bullet. take a couple rounds and you'll still be floored.
Correct. It’s like getting punched by Mike Tyson.
Good enough. Head moves a lot more than you’d ever guess.
There is a video of an old guy standing on one foot taking a shot to the chest point blank from a full sized rifle round and barely even moving.
Are you saying that Mike wouldn't absolutely floor an old man who is off balance in a singular punch?
I see he's conducting his test with hitler
that gun never made any sense to me
Christ. Imagine having to do the risk assessment for that. I feel sorry for their health and safety officer.
when you think about it Newton's 3rd law means that the bullet can only deliver a blow that's as powerful as or less powerful than the recoil of the gun. if the recoil can't knock the shooter down the bullet won't knock the target down, assuming he's wearing a vest.
You idiots always frick this up and i hate you. The rifle has all kinds of recoil absorbing tech to soften shit for the shooter. Please continue fleshing out your theory id like everyone else in the class to know how stupid you are.
here is a break action rifle, please point out the tech that keeps the recoil from fricking up the shooter
Depends on the armor. A lot of what people actually buy and use now you will feel the blackface deformation and have potentially broken bones.
BFD is overblown when the plate can push away from the body.
That's a fast push
Stop talking out your ass. The NIJ armor specs are designed to only allow the amount of blackface deformation that will not cause lasting injury. Unless you are very frail you will not break bones if you get hit by a round that your plate is rated for.
>shoots himself in the chest with a 44 magnum
"boy i hate that. anyways.."
Broken collarbone will put you out of action completely
i hate nogunz so much bros
moron
pretty accurate actually
we know exactly what happens when 7.62x51 hits a hard plate like ceramic, nothing special
marine was hit in the chest with one, he didnt even notice the hit due to all the adrenaline in him
another soldier was hit in the back, it only left some reddening as if he was slapped
and for a recent example, ukranian was hit by 7.62x54r in his armor piece
it left a bruise and just barely broke the skin but did not cause serious harm
and even that was due to failure of the armor, as it bulged out from the impact instead properly shattering
so no, unless you are hit with a cannonball of a round like .50bmg, you are not going to be hurt from the impact
hard armor simply spreads the impact over a wide area and slows down the energy transfer too much
at most you will feel like you got punched but you will definitely keep on going
post guns
depends on the construction of the armor and the caliber of the round.
At the bad guy.
you aim belt level
At the silhouette you see for half a second 2-300 metres away, or just in their general direction until you can close in and finish them with grenades
This is about right. If you're able to make out specific body parts then you're a lucky duck and have the drop on him. Or a sniper, or weapons operator. Otherwise think about it, only his vitals are protected. If you shoot at a body-sized target enough it might hit his arms, face, groin, legs, hell even fricking up a few toes could take him out of the fight.
Gut and "pelvic area"
face, arms, legs, sides
Me? I just go for the head. Even hipfiring I get headshots every time. I'm just built different.
Can you do a 360noscope tho?
Only way to use a sniper rifle, IMO.
in the chest, long rifles should be able to shoot through armor so no issue there, just because you might not be leaking getting hit once in the plate doesn't mean you aren't fricked up/stopped
basically just shoot them more than once or twice or just shoot them 15 fricking times in the bone zone and eventually he will show you his butthole or 'sweet spot'
>long rifles should be able to shoot through armor
but they don't. pretty much all militaries issue L4s to grunts.
>just because you might not be leaking getting hit once in the plate doesn't mean you aren't fricked up/stopped
generally speaking, getting shot in a plate doesn't do much other than startle you. unless you get hit with something mega spicy like 54R AP
>getting shot in a plate doesn't do much other than startle you
depends on the range and how much of a pussy the gay getting shot is
plates will fail after being shot multiple times, close range in a rough grouping should either be enough to keel almost anyone over to a non-plated spot on their body or the body armor itself will simply fail.
resident moronic homosexual mc'should've died has an example for you
i know those aren't lv4 mil spec plates BUT the kinetic energy is the same.
5.56/5.45 impacts on plates can definitely knock the wind out of someone or even put them on the ground depending on range. One interviewed Ukraine volunteer got hit in the back by friendly 5.45 and said he felt like someone shoved him hard into the ground.
No army supplies vests that can withstand a double from 7.62x39. They miggt have few in a stockpile but nobody gets them.
5 millimeters lack the stopping power. Literal .22 small arms
The absolute minimum standard for Level III body armor is literally 6 rounds of .308 M80 ball, then consider that some plates will exceed the minimum and Level IV plates can usually withstand even more than that.
>The absolute minimum standard for Level III body armor is literally 6 rounds of .308 M80 ball, then consider that some plates will exceed the minimum and Level IV plates can usually withstand even more than that.
308 and x51 aren't the same thing. 308 has more chamber capacity and a higher max chamber pressure. There is no such thing as 308 M80 ball. Normally I wouldn't sperg out on something like this, but in the context of proofing details matter a lot.
Level 3 is not certified against 308 loads, and while most systems exceed the standard by enough that you'd be ok it would be a straight up gamble and people have died from doing dumb shit with plates and cartridges beyond their rating.
Leg meta
Lets say its a close range scenario hes charging you shooting you ready to kill you with full auto. Then you need too aim for head will be fastest way too completely incapacitate them with no other weird rng like getting shot 5-10 times that wasnt instantly capacitating and still killed you before he bleed out and died because you fell for some bullshit that you shouldnt aim for le head because its harder too hit. Other than a scenario like that just shoot bad guy.
the dick.
Center mass. Just keep shooting until they are down.
First option is to just keep shooting. Modern body armor is designed to deform since it helps soak the kinetic energy. If you keep hitting the armor it's going to break.
Second option is go for the base of the throat. Most modern armors don't cover the throat too much and even if you miss high or low you'll probably hit something important
Last option is the legs. This is something you'd expect from a Tarkov player more than a soldier but it does happen.
>Modern body armor is designed to deform since it helps soak the kinetic energy.
No, it isn't. It's designed to deform as little as possible. Backface deformation is a fail criteria for NIJ, CRISAT etc.
What about frontface deformation? Interior deformation? Of course the back isn't supposed to deform but modern ceramic plates are designed to be shattered when shot.
Most people lock up when shot or get stunned. Also you can magdump through a lot of armor.
>Where do soldiers shoot when their enemies have body armor?
I remember this concept called "snipers triangle"
T zone or T box, headshots are hard as shit against a moving target outside of range conditions. Aim for center mass and hit it a couple times until they stop shooting at you.
If you miss high you can still get a headshot.
Pretty sure it's just accepted that you'll have to hit the enemy more than once.
Wait a minute so if you get hit by around it will hurt depending on the round/and gun it can break break bones why don’t people just wear something similar to a gambeson
>Wait a minute so if you get hit by around it will hurt depending on the round/and gun it can break break bones
it wont unless you are wearing soft armor and are hit by a shotgun blast
> why don’t people just wear something similar to a gambeson
hardplates come with a trauma pad under, which is usually just foam or rubber
it helps cushion the hit a bit
which is why the idea that a hit to level IV plates can injure via blunt trauma is dumb
Ah I see my question is quite moronic literally having a cushion underneath the armor is what most militaries use and if a regarded nation did issue gambeson is would I turn make it harder for combat medics to save people because of the thick gambeson and the problem of overheating
Buy better ammo that can penetrate the armor or you shoot enough bullet that the armor fail and some bullet can get through. What I prefer is aiming for the leg with buckshot but you need to be closer to the target.
t. Tarkov expert
The belt, or just below it usually. Otherwise they still just aim for the armor. Hell, a lot don't even really aim properly to begin with.
With some spicy AP rounds, you can just shoot through armor.
It's pretty expensive though, I think SLAP is even better than standard tungsten AP. You can practice and train with plastic and standard. Then load AP ammo when it matters, for cost reasons, then it is affordable.
SLAP is a sabot AP, where the casing fires a smaller tungsten bullet encased in plastic.
It has a smaller surface area and more velocity, so it pierces the plate armor like a bee sting, then threads the flesh behind it.
>then shreds* the flesh behind it.
As if through a soft target, this is ammo overmatch for armor, big part of why the 6.8 was chosen after the 5.56
They shoot the armor, but harder.
No armor will withstand continuous fire from rifles and heavy armor don't properly protect your sides. So you can fire down effectively at your enemies' flanks.
you still shoot center mass. my drill senior drill sargeant told us that in his personal experience decomposing homies in iraq and afghanistan a 7.62x39 round will be caught by your standard issues iotv and ceramic plate. The second round may get caught, but after that second round that plate is compromised. That third bullet is going to go right through you. He said he never saw a towelhead shoot in semi auto either. He said dont fricking get shot privates.