Where do small arms go from here? Is it just going to be little optimizations from here on out? Will we ever see another big leap in technology like the jump to cartridges?
Where do small arms go from here? Is it just going to be little optimizations from here on out?
yeah
>Will we ever see another big leap in technology like the jump to cartridges
The next big leap will be the integration of computers into the soldier's firearm, but the technology isn't quite there yet, specifically battery technology.
Computers to do what, though? Help them aim?
Most other things can be accomplished by an average smartphone or tablet.
That would be one aspect, yes
Think fire control systems on tanks.
a lot is going into scopes with thermals and targeting systems
We gonna be on the timeline where we will have Judge Dred goon cops and literal Borg Soldiers. Frick it, spin wheel faster I want my bloodline to see phyrexians.
You don't even need to train marskmanship if the optic takes the shot for you. Real life aimbots. If you have that you may as well put them on those robot dogs and drones.
Basically, yeah this is it. Plastic cases are going to offer lighter ammo, and were going to keep squeezing incrementally more velocity out of existing cases, but in terms of mechanics it appears that firearms are pretty much finished. Big leaps are going to keep happening with optics and miniaturizing electronics, but theyre accessories and the guns themselves arent going to change much.
You mean like those powered rails? I hate the idea of making all your electronics dependent on a single power source. The whole thing screams gimmick. Everything having its own AA battery weighs very little in the grand scheme of things and offers valuable redundancy.
Pic rail mounted battery packs
Boom, done.
garand thumb? got some range time with this new super duper mega frickoff awesome scope, that absolutely floored him, he said it was almost too easy and made aiming so much easier.
FUKKIN LASER BEAMS MAYNE
frick ya mudda!
cased telescoped plastic ammo will be the next revolution
Yeah, Textron should have won.
yup. a true leap in technology. you could give everyone a minimi equivalent at half the weight. make it 6mm and everyone gets a minimi with 1000+ yard range at half the weight. talk about overmatch.
and what did we get? instead basically 7mm-08 +P+ in a fancy AR-10.
never not be mad. As much as I want light LMGs like the LAMG and Evolys to succeed, its feels bitter to see people fawn over them knowing we had an even lighter gun ready for mass adoption over a decade ago that was just left to wither.
Small arms wil become a thing of the past like all weapons. What tech will replace it can only be theorized. However it will likely be drones and other robotics.
>both forces run out of drones or directed energy weapons and electronic warfare fry them all
>the men just stand there staring across the field at each other since they don't have any guns since small arms were supposed to be obsolete
What a stupid idea. Maybe they'll start to issue them spears, swords, and bows.
Militaries always keep the recent tech dummy. Training with fire arms will be a thing for awhile the same way they had swords and bayonets in WW2. Just like conflicts of the past one side will always have solutions for electronic warfare and things like this. How can you drop my drone when I downed your power grid months ago with a copper wire? Your gonna use the generators? You mean the ones that need that gas in those trucks we blew up? Why are you gonna straw man my argument when I gave room for error? It's clear from the current conflicts that bombs satellites and aircraft are the thing of the future. Don't get mad at me because you wanna kick a door it and probably haven't got the chance too. Highly specialized teams with crazy advance tech will do all the door kicking. And chances are you will know even less about what they use that we know now. Also microwaves dude those will be used. We already hear tell of "Havana syndrome" and guys are designed microwave weapons for anti air on ships only the power required is a bit too high. (However former sec def miller said it won't be a problem soon.) Microwave weapons will be Blasing bad guys through walls soon enough.
Also any thing 5 gen war will become major focuses of future militaries. It's old now but I recommend a book called unrestricted warfare. It paints a great picture of 5 gen war it should not be considered the be all end all. 5 gen is a developing doctrine. Weapons of causing the enemy society fear and anxiety through methods unlike that past. Less carpet bombing to scare because that unites an civilian population against us. Think psy war and causing civil unrest, subverting the population into thinking we are the good guys. These methods of war can very likely become the new weapon. I guy on a laptop making Twitter post Hollywood directors being hired to fake videos and enemy atrocities. All this brings the enemies population closer to accepting the "invaders". These methods should seem obvious because it's no secret. The only secrets are where when and what. The beauty of 5 gen is the enemy not knowing or being able to point the finger at what new weapon is being used against them.
>We already hear tell of "Havana syndrome"
you know how cops like to fake a back injury as soon as they've been on the force long enough that they can take an early retirement with full pension? well the state department guys figured out how to do it too
Doubt. Small arms are the latest iteration of the first and oldest tool. Personal weapons are never going away.
"Smart" adjustable zoom optics with thermal and NV modes that can use a laser rangefinder to calculate an aim point. Basically an evolved version of the XM157 optic. Rails that can transfer power and data so you can have one large battery inside the stock or somewhere else in the gun powering accessories. Biggest holdup for all of this stuff is the limits of battery technology.
I don't get why the US Army or other western countries won't field a good muzzle break or recoil compensator instead of relatively simple flash hiders. That would be nice to have.
I've read about studies into "weapon-powered magazines" back in the LSAT days but I can't find any information on how these are supposed to function.
Eventually cased-telescoped ammunition might become 100% feasible. Textron was almost there.
IDK if there has been anything novel for reducing recoil recently. The last "big thing" was the balanced recoil system featured on some Soviet/Russian designs like the A-545. Of course their regularly infantry are treated as too disposable to ever be issued such rifles. I don't know the topic well enough to say if such a system could be adapted to methods of operation other than a long stroke gas piston.
Then there is the whole "hyperburst" idea that the G11 and AN94 incorporated. The AN94 shows you can manage to fire two shots before the recoil impacts the shooter even using cased ammo, but the big challenge is doing this in a system isn't too complicated and prone to failure.
As far as larger weapons go eventually smart grenade launchers like the XM25 will actually be fielded. Besides for the originally envisioned roles such weapons could have a utility swatting small drones.
IDK what else I'm not thinking of. Somebody hurry up and invent practical plasma guns or gauss rifles already. Also someone needs to make another attempt at the whole rocket-powered ammo idea the Gyrojet tried.
Maybe someone will invent a drone jamming device that can fit on a rifle?
>The AN94 shows you can manage to fire two shots before the recoil impacts the shooter even using cased ammo
The longstanding issue with all the hyperburst shit is less technical feasibility but whether its even valuable to begin with. It makes every miss twice as costly, and the hits are in principle no more lethal. If your rounds are not reliably lethal in single shots, then thats a caliber issue and shooting the same rounds faster is just a crutch.
I don't think it was ever about lethality but rather about increasing hit probability at ranges where burst/automatic fire from rifles would normally be ineffective.
>hyperburst
it works with Rico's LMG in Killzone
>Maybe someone will invent a drone jamming device that can fit on a rifle?
Have the equipment backpack mounted with a large antenna. Link the equipment to a smaller aiming module mounted on the rifle for directing the radio waves in the general direction of the drone.
The equipment could also be mounted to a nearby UGV for a more powerful attack.
>We need to replace the M4
>Nothing's good enough
>repeat for 100 years
I genuinely believe that people will still being using AR15s hundreds of years from now. It's this millennia's spear or short sword. And just like those, there will be a little variation over time but the concept will essentially remain the same.
This post is the best post of the thread, AR-15s will be used when we conquer Mars
Auto loading rifles in general but yeah.
Unless we have a breakthrough in magnetism or lasers or some shit I really wouldn't think so... Other post I replied to makes a good point, swords have been around for longer than we can accurately count time and especially sharpened sticks... All of which are still in common use some way or another or when need be.
thats a regression from the ar-10
>jump to
Hardly a leap forward and more of an iterative change over time. Much like firearms in general.
Please do some primary research before posting such moronation again.
>semantics
You're very smart anon, but isn't it a school night?
Everything supercapacitors will be a thing and battery technology will keep getting better and we'll see coil guns that can match the performance of fire arms or exceed them. If you can hit the same velocity, a coil gun is better in every way:
>Way cheaper, lighter, smaller ammo, it's just the projectile so you could run 100 round mags standard.
>No report, everything is basically suppressed
>Adjustable velocity, you can reduce velocity to reduce recoil as needed or up it for longer shots/armored targets
>For MGs, arcing indirect fire (corrected by drones) is going to be able to hit things way easier if a computer can adjust the velocity to exactly what it needs to be to get the beaten zone around some target.
>Variable rate of fire, which isn't huge, but neat
I mean, it'll probably be a bigger deal for artillery, but if coil guns can match firearms for velocity/weight/cost firearms will essentially be obsolete.
Right now though it's like $2,000 for coil gun that does high end air rifle speeds though and they aren't light. Give it 30 years though, maybe 50, and they might get there.
With mag lev, it's conceivable to make barrel wear less of an issue, although this would require even greater energy demands.
EMP grenade launchers, IR blast grenade launchers, high frequency emitting ghost grenades, false thermal bullets
General drone/tech combat stuff i think will be seen the next decade
The next big thing for small arms will be release consent. Never miss again.
I think that the assault rifle, battle rifle, LMG, and GPMG should all eventually be replaced by a lightweight belt fed automatic weapon like the Knights AMG but smaller and lighter. Soldiers other than riflemen will have a PDW the size of a Sig Rattler.
>Why
I think that prioritizing man portable missiles and drones are the future of assaulting and defending a position. Lots of belt fed automatic rifles to pin people down, and drones to hunt them.
quad stack ARs with polymer cased 5.56
you can carry twice as much ammo for the same weight as current loadout and with less reloads
>53 rounds in the space of two 30 round magazines
Wow! The future is here! And all you need is a specially built lower and magazines that only one company makes? Sign me up!
They make 45 rounders not much longer than STANAG, and the same thickness. If there is a real advancement, it will be beyond 5.56.
>polymer cased
Enjoy the rot.
Relax, it’s a Generation 1 unveiling of a new type of lower/receiver. Same could have been said about the very first metallic for rimless cartridge. Its merits vs other solutions will determine if it’s here to stay and if other companies will follow suit.
>>53 rounds in the space of two 30 round magazines
No, it occupies less space than two 30-round magazines. It's also lighter per-cartridge.
>They make 45 rounders not much longer than STANAG
Even the magpul 40's are too long, stop lying.
>If there is a real advancement, it will be beyond 5.56.
And once that comes the first thing people will ask is how we can carry more of them.
>If there is a real advancement, it will be beyond 5.56.
Stop pretending to be interested in advancements, you have a reflexive hatred of change. Prove me wrong, name a cartridge which would be an advancement beyond 5.56.
NTA. Nothing currently extant but a hybrid case 5.56 FABRL is a much better solution. Better enough to justify the logistic nightmare of switching over? Idk. But it has the effect of doubling BC, increasing muzzle energy quite a bit, and keeping velocity the same, all for a trivial (or negative, if quad stacks are used) weight penalty.
>name a cartridge which would be an advancement beyond 5.56
5.56 with longer effective range, better ballistics out of smaller barrels. Warfare may change to the point where the current cartridges won't be effective. I don't think NGSW is good, but they're looking forward to a different battlefield. The future isn't just more, lighter ammo. 5.56 is great, but it's great now. Great in the last few decades. We're talking about future, here. The future isn't always here, right now.
> We're talking about future, here. The future isn't always here, right now.
Kamala Harris, is that you?
shoulder mounted auto turrets like predator has
Near term: electronic firing replacing mechanical pins. Better li-ion batteries and 20v power tool batteries enable this. By doing so the entire FCG can be turned into a single moving part (the trigger) and made much more durable. Also greatly reduces NDs due to operator idiocy. People will whine about it but it will be proven superior.
Medium term: caseless/partially-caseless telescoped ammo using the benefits of electronic firing to have greater chamber pressures in a smaller, yet still stable, round.
Long term: ammo replaced by a gaseous powder feeding system ignited by a laser. The technology for this already exists but isn't durable enough for general use, but once it's done the gun can just be readied once per mission by a trustworthy adult instead of allowing boots to reload it and potentially be a danger to themselves. It also reduces ND incidents because the weapon won't be able to be loaded/readied without it's user electronically tagging in and getting remote approval to use the weapon, as in Judge Dredd. This still has less moving parts than a typical AR, bolt assembly is replaced by a some small check valves and a thing that clicks the mag to load the next round.
Longer term: laser just shoots the gas at the target, killing the target. Only moving parts are the gas system now.
Longer-er term: laser just shoots itself at the target, killing the target. Only one moving part, the trigger. Weapon can be used as a club and still function perfectly.
> Electronic fire control group
The ATF is going to shit bricks over that. We may never see that in the civilian market because any moron could conceivably turn one into a machine gun.
Aslong as there are distinct categories of any type of small arms, I think there is room for improvement. Example: belt fed LMGs exist because they do something that the automatic rifle can not do. And the automatic rifle exists because it has unique desireable attributes the LMG does not. Thus these 2 guns have shortcomings that can be improved upon/ameliorated. Same with the dual caliber paradigm.
I’m expecting hybrid cases and desert-tech style quad stacks to be the future of rifles. Combine these with a constant recoil action like the ultimax or surefire MGX and you have a unified rifle/MG.
But no, there probabaly aren’t any more massive leaps. The frequency/probability of generational leaps decreases as a product class gets more mature with more iterations, and gets closer to its optimal/final form version. And guns are already quite mature.. (Unless there is a huge, unforeseen paradigm shift in technology.)
Unironically the biggest leap i see happening is handheld gauss rifles. Either that or someone figures out caseless ammo
How about this: Put a spring loaded pendulum-piston that is aligned to the barrel into the stock of a gun. Attach a linear generator to it, charging a battery. You've now solved two problems at once: A smooth, delayed recoil and a shot-charged power source.
Weight. Extremely expensive high maintenance equipment, temperature sensitive components.
>But what if they fixed all these problems that no one has fixed in any industry?
I'm glad you didn't ask, because that would be a rhetorical question and it would be silly for me to answer.
How about making the whole gun the counterweight, supported in a lightweight casing? E.g. the HK G11 works this way but does nothing with the delayed recoil. Linear motors/generators are low maintenance compared to rotating ones.
Battery is the big thing, and the wiring to it. I'm experienced with LiON and NiMH battery cars, and the motors are almost never a problem unless they completely burn out or someone fricks them. I think Sweden or someone went huge on Teslas and they just won't go in their winters. Cooling, heating, and protection to stop the wires from terminating you would make them so cumbersome even if they had a use case nobody would want to use them. I couldn't even imagine the fricking Marines getting their hands on that. It'd be like those nuclear suicide backpacks.
You can see the whole, heavy receiver unit pistoning back into the casing in this 20mm Inkunzi. That's a lot of kinetic energy that could be harvested between the two opposing surfaces.
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>PV=nRT
Simply improve pressure to improve performance.
When will caseless have its day? Will railguns ever become a reality in the hands of the individual?
>caseless
fragile and prone to moisture ingress. gains may not justify the cost of switching, even if those problems are solved.
>railguns
energy density. no energy source can provide enough power while remaining man-portable.
Quad mounted shoulder fired American 180. Why have one hive of angry bees when you can have four hives of angry bees?
AR-15 II
Hold up. AR-16.
Nah, you'll get a gay as remaster done by pajeet enginegers
The next big jump in small arms is likely to be energy weapons, but not for hundreds of years. Weapons need to work despite long years of storage. Specifically ammunition. Batteries and storage of energy is the issue. Bullets if properly stored can last over 100 years. No other form of stored ready to use energy can really do that. If a battery or chemical battery could store like conventional modern ammo, then energy weapons are the next leap. From rail guns and EMP to start and maybe lasers eventually.
Yeah the big leap is gonna be bullpups
>what is advancement in powder technology
ahem Black folk tounge my anus.
making thermal more common and better, turning a scope into a small computer that can tell you the positions of your squad, built in rangefinder that will adjust itself for the distance, and a program that lets a squad commander mark positions to head to that shows up on the scope
all this is something that actually exists, and its on sale for hunters, making you feel like its a fricking fps game HUD
thats just fricking cheating at this point
The future will be rudimentary training with irons and full dive into understanding the computer that sits on top of your gun
Soldiers probably won't even need to fire a single round in training by that point
but that does mean something i've been noticing more in modern war
casualties in battle will be far smaller, and there will be less bloodshed
but at the same time, i think the result will be that much more civilians will become involved than a conventional war
so i really dont know whether to say the new way of fighting is better or not, just that we're heading towards it
WHERE
IS
MY
SUPER SUIT?
I dread the day my old ass will come on here and see /pag/ - Power Armor General
PAwG will happen
Caseless ammo, integrated ballistic computers, probably some minor improvements to materials etc. Other than that I don't think there'll be any major leaps until (or perhaps if) directed energy weapons become viable.