What's with eyetalians and riveted armor? Surely they must've known what a terrible idea that is

What's with eyetalians and riveted armor? Surely they must've known what a terrible idea that is

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  1. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    Italy had a shitty industry and were years behind all the other major powers.

  2. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    For her pleasure.

  3. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    Riveting is quicker and requires significantly less skill than welding. Italy at the time wasn't exactly known as a automotive powerhouse nor in any industry other than perhaps aircraft.

    • 2 months ago
      Anonymous

      They had a lot of ships.

      • 2 months ago
        Anonymous

        A lot of outdated ships that performed very poorly during the war. Italy never recovered from the fall of Rome& never will

        • 2 months ago
          Anonymous

          Idiot, they had modern ships, more modern than the bongs, thay had no fuel so they were poorly trained.

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            Didn't they also lag behind in radar and computerization? Could've sworn I heard somewhere they had some of the best gunners let down by poor target and range finding

    • 2 months ago
      Anonymous

      the italian auto industry was already pretty fricking big in the 30s.

      • 2 months ago
        Anonymous

        It had a lot of manufacturers, but it lacked an export market and the trade policies of Italy made it had for it to actually mass produce vehicles.
        To give perspective; in 1935, Italy produced ~35,000 vehicles, Canada produced ~173,000.

  4. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    We had some cool tanks you have to admit. At least the armour was sloped and not flat like those idiot Germans

  5. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    All the welders were working in shipyards at that point

  6. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    Even nowadays bolt-on plates are popular.
    Welding is unreliable if the alloy was too hard or you had shortage of strategic metals for the alloy.

    • 2 months ago
      Anonymous

      bolt-on armor is just that, armor that you bolt on to the hull, its not riveted
      the actual base armor of the vehicle is still usually welded and the bolts being smashed off is less of a concern because it will spall off into the base armor rather than the hull interior

  7. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    it was an issue of industrial capacity and priorities. Other things were more important and got more development, and the labor pool and industrial base was already familiar with riveting so its just kinda the thing they went with.

  8. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    Riveting was the least of their concerns. I’ve got a feeling that as long as the armor stopped small arms, it was good enough for them

  9. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    They were based on licensed designs from France and England that were riveted, and built in factories that had experience riveting train engines. Same reason rivering was used so much in other countries.

  10. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    idk I think its a very riveting concept

  11. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    >cost
    >Germans had welding advantages/tech they didn't care to share until later on

    They had arguably the best tank army of the interwar years, and competitive stuff until Shermans become ubiquitous in North Africa.

  12. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    Italy lacked fuel BADLY they didn't even have enough fuel to send out the merchant marine and the navy at the same time.

    So they kind of have up on the idea of making big tanks early on as they didn't have the fuel for them.

    Germany had fuel supplies from Romania and it also was lacking fuel but Italy was faring much worse as it pre war fuel supplies where from the US.

    So Italy worked to make small and fuel efficient engines and small tanks which after the war remained the hallmarks of Italian cars being tiny and fuel efficient and veichles that can go surprisingly fast for their engine size as they were trying to squeeze as much energy from a small amount fuel as possible. Ultimately leading to both the super tiny cars and the sport cars that Italy is known for.

    But Italy is definitely not known for big, heavy duty, reliable engines that would work well on tanks.

  13. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    Rivets weren't exactly uncommon in the early years of WW2 anon.

  14. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    Mussolini forced Italy to join the WW2 after a horrible civil war. The economy was completely fricked so their local tanks were both rushed and completely primitive to the actual armor technology at the time.

    • 2 months ago
      Anonymous

      excuse me sir, what horrible civil war?

      the civil war was AFTER Mussolini joined the ww2, and AFTER the italy surrender in 1943.

      There was no civil war between 1918 (end of WWI) and 1943. Mussolini took power in 1922, unopposed.

      • 2 months ago
        Anonymous

        He's referring to the Italian Civil War where Nationalists and Republicans fought each other. George Orwell served in the Italian Foreign Brigades until he got hit by a sniper's rigatoni and while he was recovering he wrote a novel about called Homage to Calabria where he saved english socialism by depicting Stalin as a basedjack.

        • 2 months ago
          Anonymous

          6/10 bait

      • 2 months ago
        Anonymous

        The spanish civil war you historylet moron

  15. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    Even British Industry (formerly the Workshop of the World and still exceeding Germany in several areas of output like aircraft and ships) had to rely on riveted construction for their norf africa era stuff like the Valentine, Crusader, Bren carrier etc.

    Now imagine you are fricking Italy and you have no fricking industry.

  16. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    99% of italy was essentially still an 1800s tier country.

  17. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    Americans also made riveted tanks just a year before P.40.

  18. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    its not riveted, its bolted
    Have you never looked inside an italian tank?

  19. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    i love rivets
    why are they worse than welding?

    • 2 months ago
      Anonymous

      As someone with absolutely no knowledge or authority whatsoever, it's because the rivets compromise the armor plate by adding holes

    • 2 months ago
      Anonymous

      Rivets could break when taking a hit and shred the crew inside

    • 2 months ago
      Anonymous

      You don't rivet outside plate to outside plate, you need an inside heavy frame to river the plates to.
      Making the tank a shitton heavier than it would be if it was welded. Also welding A LOT better armor integrity = better protection.
      Not using welding in tanks production is a pure skill issue.

    • 2 months ago
      Anonymous

      Rivets break easily and the entire plate can fall off. Moreover, the shreds of the rivets function as projectiles bouncing inside the tank and can hit the crew like they were bullets

    • 2 months ago
      Anonymous

      Rivets on a battleship are inconsequential since an explosion isn't propelling them into the citadel. With a tank... not so much.

    • 2 months ago
      Anonymous

      if the rivet takes less force to break then it takes to pen the armor plate it is holding on. It can break sending the bit of rivet inside of the armor to bounce around the hull fricking up people and equipment.
      what

      You don't rivet outside plate to outside plate, you need an inside heavy frame to river the plates to.
      Making the tank a shitton heavier than it would be if it was welded. Also welding A LOT better armor integrity = better protection.
      Not using welding in tanks production is a pure skill issue.

      said
      Those rivets where also hot bolted on so you can't even undo them in the field so it's not like to can unbolt a broken or penetrated plate and replace it
      all those down sides for a bit of ease in manufacture. But once you have competent welders it's not even al that cheaper/easier to rivet instead of weld

      • 2 months ago
        Anonymous

        Riveting is also more labor intensive than welding. A welder (or weldor) is mostly working on their own, maybe with an optional assistant depending on how fidly the equipment is at the time, or if grinding is considered a separate trade. Riveting always takes a whole team, you need to operate gas torches and hammers and rivet ovens in quick succession, you need at least a few people to work one rivet at a time.

  20. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    Italy was farmer country until the Marshall plan. Now it's half European, and half criminal.

    • 2 months ago
      Anonymous

      hey the south isn't all criminal
      Italy is half european, 1 quarter criminal and 1 quarter on the dole for 3 generations straight.

  21. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    why didn't they just use bioweapons?

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