What's with eyetalians and riveted armor? Surely they must've known what a terrible idea that is
What's with eyetalians and riveted armor? Surely they must've known what a terrible idea that is
What's with eyetalians and riveted armor? Surely they must've known what a terrible idea that is
Italy had a shitty industry and were years behind all the other major powers.
For her pleasure.
Riveting is quicker and requires significantly less skill than welding. Italy at the time wasn't exactly known as a automotive powerhouse nor in any industry other than perhaps aircraft.
They had a lot of ships.
A lot of outdated ships that performed very poorly during the war. Italy never recovered from the fall of Rome& never will
Idiot, they had modern ships, more modern than the bongs, thay had no fuel so they were poorly trained.
Didn't they also lag behind in radar and computerization? Could've sworn I heard somewhere they had some of the best gunners let down by poor target and range finding
the italian auto industry was already pretty fricking big in the 30s.
It had a lot of manufacturers, but it lacked an export market and the trade policies of Italy made it had for it to actually mass produce vehicles.
To give perspective; in 1935, Italy produced ~35,000 vehicles, Canada produced ~173,000.
We had some cool tanks you have to admit. At least the armour was sloped and not flat like those idiot Germans
All the welders were working in shipyards at that point
Even nowadays bolt-on plates are popular.
Welding is unreliable if the alloy was too hard or you had shortage of strategic metals for the alloy.
bolt-on armor is just that, armor that you bolt on to the hull, its not riveted
the actual base armor of the vehicle is still usually welded and the bolts being smashed off is less of a concern because it will spall off into the base armor rather than the hull interior
it was an issue of industrial capacity and priorities. Other things were more important and got more development, and the labor pool and industrial base was already familiar with riveting so its just kinda the thing they went with.
Riveting was the least of their concerns. I’ve got a feeling that as long as the armor stopped small arms, it was good enough for them
They were based on licensed designs from France and England that were riveted, and built in factories that had experience riveting train engines. Same reason rivering was used so much in other countries.
idk I think its a very riveting concept
>cost
>Germans had welding advantages/tech they didn't care to share until later on
They had arguably the best tank army of the interwar years, and competitive stuff until Shermans become ubiquitous in North Africa.
Italy lacked fuel BADLY they didn't even have enough fuel to send out the merchant marine and the navy at the same time.
So they kind of have up on the idea of making big tanks early on as they didn't have the fuel for them.
Germany had fuel supplies from Romania and it also was lacking fuel but Italy was faring much worse as it pre war fuel supplies where from the US.
So Italy worked to make small and fuel efficient engines and small tanks which after the war remained the hallmarks of Italian cars being tiny and fuel efficient and veichles that can go surprisingly fast for their engine size as they were trying to squeeze as much energy from a small amount fuel as possible. Ultimately leading to both the super tiny cars and the sport cars that Italy is known for.
But Italy is definitely not known for big, heavy duty, reliable engines that would work well on tanks.
Rivets weren't exactly uncommon in the early years of WW2 anon.
Mussolini forced Italy to join the WW2 after a horrible civil war. The economy was completely fricked so their local tanks were both rushed and completely primitive to the actual armor technology at the time.
excuse me sir, what horrible civil war?
the civil war was AFTER Mussolini joined the ww2, and AFTER the italy surrender in 1943.
There was no civil war between 1918 (end of WWI) and 1943. Mussolini took power in 1922, unopposed.
He's referring to the Italian Civil War where Nationalists and Republicans fought each other. George Orwell served in the Italian Foreign Brigades until he got hit by a sniper's rigatoni and while he was recovering he wrote a novel about called Homage to Calabria where he saved english socialism by depicting Stalin as a basedjack.
6/10 bait
The spanish civil war you historylet moron
Even British Industry (formerly the Workshop of the World and still exceeding Germany in several areas of output like aircraft and ships) had to rely on riveted construction for their norf africa era stuff like the Valentine, Crusader, Bren carrier etc.
Now imagine you are fricking Italy and you have no fricking industry.
99% of italy was essentially still an 1800s tier country.
Americans also made riveted tanks just a year before P.40.
its not riveted, its bolted
Have you never looked inside an italian tank?
i love rivets
why are they worse than welding?
As someone with absolutely no knowledge or authority whatsoever, it's because the rivets compromise the armor plate by adding holes
Rivets could break when taking a hit and shred the crew inside
You don't rivet outside plate to outside plate, you need an inside heavy frame to river the plates to.
Making the tank a shitton heavier than it would be if it was welded. Also welding A LOT better armor integrity = better protection.
Not using welding in tanks production is a pure skill issue.
Rivets break easily and the entire plate can fall off. Moreover, the shreds of the rivets function as projectiles bouncing inside the tank and can hit the crew like they were bullets
Rivets on a battleship are inconsequential since an explosion isn't propelling them into the citadel. With a tank... not so much.
if the rivet takes less force to break then it takes to pen the armor plate it is holding on. It can break sending the bit of rivet inside of the armor to bounce around the hull fricking up people and equipment.
what
said
Those rivets where also hot bolted on so you can't even undo them in the field so it's not like to can unbolt a broken or penetrated plate and replace it
all those down sides for a bit of ease in manufacture. But once you have competent welders it's not even al that cheaper/easier to rivet instead of weld
Riveting is also more labor intensive than welding. A welder (or weldor) is mostly working on their own, maybe with an optional assistant depending on how fidly the equipment is at the time, or if grinding is considered a separate trade. Riveting always takes a whole team, you need to operate gas torches and hammers and rivet ovens in quick succession, you need at least a few people to work one rivet at a time.
Italy was farmer country until the Marshall plan. Now it's half European, and half criminal.
hey the south isn't all criminal
Italy is half european, 1 quarter criminal and 1 quarter on the dole for 3 generations straight.
why didn't they just use bioweapons?