I LITERALLY CANT DECIDE ON THE BEST HANDGUN CALIBER FOR CARRY!
THE 9MM BROS MAKE GOOD POINTS
THE 40 SOI AND WEAK BROS ARGUE RATIONALLY
THE 45AARP BOOMER BROS MAKE REASONABLE SOUNDING POINTS
THE 10MM AUTISTS SOUND RIGHT
WHAT THE FRICK DO I DO?????/ EVERY TIME I GET PERSUADED BY ONE SIDE I THEN WATCH OR HEAR ANOTHER ARGUMENT THAT PERSUADES ME BACK AGAIN AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH
ALSO MERRY CHRISTMAS YOU FILTHY ANIMALS
.357
10mm if you want it to stop attacking you, 9mm if you want to hit something on follow-up shots
10mm is not magically going to stop someone unless you hit CNS
Shutup homosexual 10mm is for tryhard minmaxxers who don’t actually shoot. It would be nice if we had some real world examples of 10mm effectiveness, but no one worth a shit uses your dumbass meme round.
>Shutup homosexual 10mm is for tryhard minmaxxers who don’t actually shoot.
Sounds like projection. I own and operate 10mm pistols.
>It would be nice if we had some real world examples of 10mm effectiveness, but no one worth a shit uses your dumbass meme round.
Notably, it's not used by the FBI - who it was designed by and for, essentially - because female agents (mostly) found it too difficult to handle the recoil, giving birth to 40 Short & Weak.
10mm performance is everything it's made out to be, and everyone who knows, knows. Saying it's minmaxed when stuff like 7.5FK exists is just ignorant, actually one of the best arguments for 10mm is how generalized it is - good for stopping any north american game, good for self defense, good for subsonic, good for high speed low drag.
So it’s only used by morons who want to go against the grain? Just what I thought.
>biggest argument for 10mm is women agents had trouble with it
Sounds like you've got something to prove, or at least compensate for
>is upset women can't use it
You're fine, because you'll never be a woman.
for a service sidearm 10mm is overkill for most use cases. But the FBI was more interested in having a giant pageant to rebuild their image in the wake of Miami Dade. Shame 10mm didn't get all that long to shine though. Honestly if i was in charge I'd just equip every car with two of those MP5/10's and standardize on the bren 10. Frick the FBI's laundry list of requirements for that contract. imo the 1076 blows. Hell screw the sidearm, give everyone a stubby mp5/10 for maximum aesthetic
Angry lil goblin ain’t ya?
unironically 7.62x39
Wrong, it's 7.62x54r
7.62x25mm
Just pick whatever you want. The reality is that center fire handgun cartridges perform similarly enough that other factors like shot placement will be more relevant. They all will work better for self defense than not having a gun so stop worrying and just pick a gun that you can comfortably carry on a regular basis.
This. One FBI analyst I was listening to described it as saying that handguns just poke holes in people and that's basically it. Differences in caliber don't change that dynamic much outside of extremes (10mm vs .22), the only meaningful changes come from different bullets (hollow point vs fmj vs whatever). People like to share studies about # of shots fired per defensive shooting in different calibers, however we need to note that we usually see more shots fired with lower calibers because capacity is higher and recoil lower, so people naturally fire more shots and this is reflected in the FBI data, which can't determine how many were required obviously. 9mm is probably the best, but it doesn't matter.
You want a cracker saying wrong things over and over parrot?
Show me a single study that found a statistically significant difference in the efficacy of the most common handgun cartridges
No biased study needed. People hunt deer with 9mm and 10mm handguns. The 10mm produces faster kills and larger wounds every time. This has been repeated on video over and over.
Same for 357 magnum vs 44 magnum. 44 produces faster kills and larger wounds on game.
>>muh studies.
Diameter and momentum were the determining factor for the volume of wound channels in human gunshot victims of handgun calibers. Bigger is in fact better.
All known handgun shooting data compiled shows that the larger and more powerful a pistol round is the better the chances of death and in fewer shots.
In short, YOU are making the claim that runs counter to all known data and common knowledge.
>>but muh one report!
Was specifically crafted to excuse a return to 9mm. It's propaganda. Stop spreading it.
>In short, YOU are making the claim that runs counter to all known data
Okay, then show me the data
https://www.ojp.gov/ncjrs/virtual-library/abstracts/fbis-10mm-pistol
>>show me the data
No. YOU provide some convincing things that support each other and what you are claiming. Some real world testing that show the exact opposite of what everyone on this board and on earth who has used more handgun has seen firsthand.
>The reality is that center fire handgun cartridges perform similarly enough that other factors like shot placement will be more relevant.
There's the classic 9mm cope.
What do you need your gun for?
How would you carry it?
How big and strong are you?
Where do you live?
>limiting yourself to 1 handgun at a time
NGMI
Why don’t you rent some and buy what you personally prefer?
Unironically .460 Rowland
FRICK YA MUDDA
I wish I had a woman
1-13 // 53-65
14-26 // 66-78
27-39 // 89-91
40-52 // 92-00
Rolling
Blessed be the numbers. 357 it is.
Roll
>.38 Super
Jesus Christ I would frick .45 so frequently I'd die of dehydration from nutting so much. She is what fat chicks think they look like.
OP caliber effectiveness is a secondary consideration to finding a handgun that is comfortable for you to carry and you can shoot decently with up to 25 yards. The reality is a magic handgun that stops everyone instantly in one shot but is bulky and uncomfortable to carry is a worse choice than something less effective that you will wear everyday with no issue.
Your style of dress also plays a part here. Think of what you normally wear and how you can conceal the handgun. I'm a literal boomer who wears high rise trousers and sport coats most of the time. It's piss easy to comfortably carry, shoulder holsters are fantastic if you're wearing a sport coat. If I'm just wearing chinos and a polo, the high rise of the chinos also make it more comfortable to carry and not print as well. The pockets are also normally deep enough I can pocket carry certain handguns too.
Basically there's no magic one size fits all answer and be very wary of anyone that claims there is.
>9x18
>I carry 9x18
works for me
Once you go larger than mouse guns, it really doesn't matter. get something that you like enough to practice with. I carry picrel with some jhp and don't worry about it.
French press and a Makarov, a man of culture I see.
30 super carry is the best caliber for carry. Not only does it give you the biggest capacity but also has super carry in its name.
it doesn't matter.
Assuming "normal" autos?
>9 > .40 > .357Sig > 10 > .45 > .380 > .32, .22WMR, .25, .22LR
This is my drunk overall opinion, considering availability, weight, capacity, terminal performance (pretty much a joke when comparing pistol calibers) ammunition cost, etc
For badassery;
>7.5FK > 5.7 > .440 Cor-Bon, > .50 AE > .44Mag > .41Mag > .357Mag > .45 Super > 10(Underwood or BuffaloBore only) > .50 GI > 7.62 Tok > .30 Mauser
>>9 > .40 > .357Sig > 10 > .45 > .380 > .32, .22WMR, .25, .22LR
10 > 9 > 40 > 45 > 380 > 32 > 25 > 22WMR > 22LR
.25 ACP is dogshit as carry ammo, but it's *centerfire* dogshit, meaning it's going to actually go off when you pull the trigger 99.9% of the time. that alone makes it 10x better than any rimfire dogshit.
Also, 10mm is way better than .357 magnum, because you can actually stack 10mm in a magazine.
>10mm is way better than .357 magnum,
They make .357 in autos and carbines, but how many 10mm wheel guns are available?
>how many 10mm wheel guns are available?
Quite a few
Imma need to see the merchandise
10mm wheelguns are based because you can plink .40 S&W out of them (yes a lot of 10mm autos can as well but it's generally bad for the extractor)
10mm lever actions when?
Is 40mm a handgun calibre?
.380 is comfiest and still kills people
Its the same as comparing AK vs AR, pistols vs revolvers, 6,5 vs 6,8 vs .308 and all that other bullshit. Yes, maybe in some niche examples it makes a difference, but in grand scheme of things it doesnt matter. Statistically all pistol calibers have the same probability to stop an agresor, the same probability to kill him, cost vaguely the same, are equally reliable. Unless you shoot competitions just pick the options you don't like and leave min maxing to vidya gays
<77 IQ .45ACP, 78-90 IQ = 9mm, 91-121 IQ = 10mm, >122 IQ = .357 Sig. AND 10mm.
>t. 186 IQ.
5.7x28
forgor to add: .357 snub nose as a backup
Indeed, just get faster on your trigger pull and zipper up that b***h
yessir. Get that 22+1 capacity, no recoil, no overpenetration and an excellent trigger by default (at least w m&p, not sure about other variants). S&W 327 8 shot snubbie as a backup in case of a malfunction. Perfect carry imo
I recommend the PSA Rock, it's more reliable and feels better in the hand
Go with .50AE instead.
pussy ass cartridge, real men carry .45-70
9mm is fine, and since you're obviously new and/or a noguns the ammo is relatively cheap and readily available. That being said while I own and carry handguns in .380, .38, 9x18 and 9x19. the caveman part of my brain does appreciate the 'big bullet more better' feeling I get when I grab my Glonk 21 or HK45C even though objectively I doubt there is much if any difference.
5.7x28mm is the only handgun cartridge that performs better than any other, so unless you can conceal carry a 5.7, it really doesn't matter, just get whatever gun fits the best stuffed in your belt.
literally whatever you want. try them all. handguns are cheap. you can get a Glock in all of those calibers for like $500. try them and see what you like and are most comfortable shooting. wanna mag dump 20 rds of 9mm into a guy or blow a chunk of their head off with 10mm? the world is your oyster.
That's the spirit.
Anything but 22lr but ive even seen shows on tv where groids got kills with 22lr. So basically whatever
I want to fabricate a .500 Bushwacker Ankle gun with a 2-3" barrel.
Just get a 9mm dude, everything is gonna be daijobu
9mm, 40S&W and .45 are so similar in ballistic performance that it's down to what platform or specific firearm best fits your hand and budget.
.45 really loses on the carrying capacity front but that's not a problem with the caliber itself specifically.
I wish the 357 sig was just the 357 magnum I love in a semi auto pistol. Wasn't impressed shooting it.
If you find yourself in a situation where you have to shoot someone, all pistol calibers are trash, so agonizing over the minutae is silly. Buy a gun you can reliably feed with your budget.
22 revolver
>won't deafen you indoors
>low recoil, fast follow up shots
>cheap to train with
>more than enough killing power
>won't go through lots of drywall to kill your neighbor
But if you live next to a pedophile shoot a 45-70?
What’s the argument against this? These seem like good points, and the double action would negate the rimfire malfunction argument
this dude convinced me https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WJ3ZPmxcR5c
for the platfrom i think that .22 snub isbetter than the same size .38 becuase you get like twice as many shots. 38s only hold like 5 rounds
The argument is that you could use .32 instead.
>won't deafen you indoors
>low recoil, fast follow up shots
>cheap to train with
>more than enough killing power
>won't go through lots of drywall to kill your neighbor
>centerfire
For practical purposes they're the same round, only slightly more expensive.
The problem is, I'm not gonna pay $600 for a 22lr revolver
9 is best because cheap.
If you want energy for animals or hunting, 10 or 357.
40 works in a 10mm anyway
22lr honorable mention
https://vid.puffyan.us/watch?v=wXwPtP-KDNk
Get the gun you like ergonomically in a caliber you can afford to shoot.
the quality of your handgun and your ability to use it effectively is far far more important than your choice of caliber
I'd not shy away from recommending even a fricking .22 as long as the gun functions reliably and you can shoot it quick and accurately.
OTAN 26.7
I meant OTAN 15x26.7
PrepHole has no edit and takes forever to delit and repost it properly
https://imgur.com/a/QpLNYcs
9 for the hoods, 10 for the woods.
.500 S&W Magnum
Leave no survivors. Not even witnesses, not even the ones next door eavesdropping...
.32 ACP
When will someone make a modern 1.5 stack 32
I imagine at least outside the US it could be real popular
Carry a bundle of hand grenades you fricking pussy
so get a gun with each caliber and rotate your daily carry until you find one you like
I have all of my guns in an RNG to determine my carry gun for the day
wish I had only one of those, I also like old guns and repros
357sig p228
357 mag. Minimum acceptable solution for all terrestrial problems in the lower 48
>9mm and 40 soi weak
for gun fights
>10mm and 45 app
for fractic CQB and when a Black person is trying to stab you or grap you gun
Pick one you like and stick with it. Every modern centerfire pistol caliber is fine.
If you’re currently nogunz then start with 9mm. It’s cheap, anvailable everywhere, and all the best guns are in 9mm anyway. Once you’re confident that you can control it, then you might consider moving up to something like 10mm or 460 Rowland. Even Garoid Thumb said he was gonna start carrying 10mm after testing Underwood defensive ammo on jello dummies.
?si=sIAyxotcrbtqK9K5
There’s also 5.7x28, but the catch is that all the ammo you can buy off the shelf sucks. Commercial 9mm defensive ammo is probably better than 5.7 defensive ammo like Speer Gold Dots. For good 5.7 ammo, you have to go for grey market LE/mil OEM FN rounds or those boutique solid copper dragon fang meme bullets.
can glock 10mms even handle those spicy underwood loads or do they grenade?
Yes because the Glock 20 was the only modern polymer 10mm handgun on the market for many years. The Glocknade meme came from the smaller 9mm Glocks that were rechambered to 40S&W and couldn't handle the increased pressures.
garand thumb is also the guy who used to carry 9mm ball since that's what he trained with in the mil, nothing against him tho
I carry a .44 Magnum. No, the recoil doesn’t bother me and yes, I will overpenetrate and cause collateral damage.
Take the hardcast pill, send pills through many assailants and walls.
Got excited, then realized that was not an Etch-A-Sketch
.25 ACP
go get em tiger
I want one of these so bad dude. My summer CCW options are lacking.
They're all right, yet they're all wrong too. The truth is that handgun calibers are mostly the same overall. They need to hit vitals to do any damage. For some, they prefer a bigger bullet because it has a better chance to hit something. Some prefer smaller bullets with more capacity because it gives them more chances to shoot.
The meat of the matter is that most self-defense shootings are over within 3 shots. The record is like 5. Criminals are, unsurprisingly, cowardly opportunists. It's not about "oh, well they'll see you have a revolver and get you when you've shot 6 times", homeboy doesn't want to risk getting shot at all and he's not about to take a bullet for his buddies. There's no honor among thieves.
If you somehow are beset by multiple attackers that are charging through gunfire to kill you, then no handgun in the world will save you. But that's also entirely unrealistic.
So just carry what you want to. You're not John Wick or Rambo, you're just an average dude who may need to save himself one day. I already just carry whatever I want when I feel like it. Some days it's a 1911, others my 9mm, and still others a revolver. Try some guns and use what you like best. The only right answer for you is entirely up to you and you alone.
380acp and up
Such as
38sp, 9x18 makarov, 9x19 parabelend/luger/, 38 super automatic,9mm largo 9mm dillion, 357 sBlack person ,357 magcum, 357 supermagcum ,
Furthermore
,40 shitty and weak ,10mm , 40 super, 41 mag
Additionally
45 acp( good ammo selection is very important, otterwise it might not expand, i suggest getting a +p rated peestol), 45 acp+p, 45 super, 45 lc, 45 lc+p.
For wildcards
762 tok, 5.7, with PROPER AMMO SELECTION and 30 super.
That should cover most calibers in use 2day.
Discussing the BEST caliber (withouth clear cut aplication)after a certain minimum treshold of effectiveness is a bit moot. Some calibers are outdated, some are fine.
The BASICS of how a pistol/ pistol cartrige works has not changed in over a 100 years. Primer powder, preassure, bullet, lockup,
only doublestacc became common with hipower in 1935 i think (88 years ago). Bigger bullet gives bigger holes, faster bullits expand/fragment more,
high preassure cartriges wear out the gun faster (but unless you regularly shoot 357 supermag , its ussually a non issue).
Pistols are still pistols.
380 acp has about 300 joules,
9mm has 550+-150 joules of energy depending on barrel and ammo,
and 10 mm has up to about a 1000 +-200 ish joules.
Greatest jump is longun (rifle / scatgun, shitgun,shotdung) vs pistol due to the way rifles/shotguns wound and the amount of energy of their projectiles
and
the stock improving shotplacement.
556 has about 1500joules of energy and often tumbles in the body dumping most of it all over.
00 Buckshot makes 8 or 9, 0.32 inch, holes .
I forgot to add a point . But basically 380 acp is the bare minimum. 9mm is good. Anything else is a bonus.
" Active sef protection" never saw anyone reload in a self defense shooting but a spare mag is a good idea to clear malfunctions because jamms that can be resolved by dropping a mag and inserting s new one+ manipulating the slide happened, rarely but they did happen often enough to be a concern.
Rational preps found a study on the subject : https://youtu.be/nycYxb-zNwc?si=VXPPQqQ7h8TI45wv.
Pistols generally have more or less the same success rate after and including 380 acp, only a fiew variations on their lethality, oneshotstops and shots to stop
The federal HST 45 acp and 45 acp+p have nearly identical velocity. I don’t know about other brands but I wouldn’t carry anything but HST. they both expand to .82”
Stop searching for "the best"
Take the justthinkitsneat pill
Merry Christmas
>find cool pistol
>its in a non cool calibre
a few such cases
9mm gives you the greatest selection of handguns and ammunition. With that, you're more likely to find a gun that suits your hands and a round that suits your use case. Also, keep in mind the caliber only needs to be good enough for the job at hand. For example, while 10mm is definitely more powerful, concerning a human target at least, it's extremely unlikely to matter with proper shot placement. If you do need more firepower than 9mm, invest in a rifle.
The only thing that matters is whether or not you think it's neato.
Everything else is secondary.
>actual performance from a tool that could potentially save my life plays second fiddle to looking cool
moron. This is about carry guns, not range toys. Bet you’re one of those gays that carries a 1903 with a pocketwatch.
There's plenty of reliable guns that will "save muh life" as long as I train with them.
If you don't have bad taste your neato wishlist is full of guns with "actual performance"
Everything's a trade off and your preferences may change. Like a full size pistol bro switching to pocket carry just for comfort.
I really don't see the big deal. Its gotta be neato first. Then it has to fit my needs. Not buying if I don't think it's cool.
Those gays have a nice pistol.
The odds of people actually having to use their carry guns is already low. So I guess why not just make sure you carry something you are familiar with and accurate with? Everything else including caliber comes after those two considerations.
>>op you should definitely get the hammer you are familiar with and the one you are most familiar with. Now I know that's a 24 ounce short swing waffle faced framing hammer and the job you are doing is finish carpentry
>>op you should definitely use the saw you are most familiar with and prefer. Now I know you will be felling redwoods and you brought a coping saw
You fricking morons are relentless. First consideration is WHAT you expect to be shooting. Second step is what calibers can reliably get the job done. Third is what handguns are chambered in said calibers and how do they fit into my carry needs.
>>uh op you just pick the shoes that are most comfortable and that you think are pretty. Now I know it's your first day at the steel mill.
Child level advice.
this, if you think your gun is neat you will actually practice with it which is far more important than anything else
cast your own conicals bro
I say the best is .44 lead balls. Partly cause it's goddamn lead.
Want the attacker to die 357 magnum, 10mm, 44 magnum.
Making a reasonable compromise between capabilities and platform, .40, .45
Like surprise buttsex in dark alleyways alot and don't want to hurt anyone, 9mm
The one you own, train with and carry.
This is the advice a literal moron in a fedora would give.
>>what's the best car for Imola?
>>the one you have and train with.
>>what's the best knife for skinning game
>>the one you have on you and train with.
>>what's the best system or console to play games on
>>the one you have on you and train with
This response is a literal larp that has been parroted since boomer times. Same people,
>>all pistol calibers are the same
>>I don't need to be that accurate
>>a bullet that passes through an animal is wasted energy
These morons need to go back.
The best caliber is going to be specific to you. It's going to be whatever the most powerful round you can comfortably and accurately shoot out of a frame with the largest capacity that you can comfortably carry and reasonably afford. There isn't really a right choice, only a wrong one. .40 cal is bullshit, don't get a .40.
It's .45 (or .44 if you're into revolvers) and it's as simple as that.
You are NOT in a self-defense situation if you are at liberty to shoot 15 rounds at somebody. Only cops executing some stoned Black folk who don't even know where they are can do that. For us it's 5 shots at most before the situation is absolutely clear - you live or they live. Make these shots count.
If you worry that .45 is too much for you then just buy weaker ammo at the beginning.
45 in revolvers is also best.
9x25 dillon
What slide and barrel? G40 and 9x25 have almost 0 aftermarket, so it's weird I don't recognize either of those.
yessir
btw STOP COPYING ME
>9mm
>hot 9mm
>thicc 9mm
>tall and hot 9mm
>hot and thicc 9mm
Leave best cartridge to me.
Imagine yourself walking down the street when a man approaches you, draws a firearm, and shoots. Maybe he hits you in the shoulder, but it hurts like a fricker and you turn and run away as fast as you possibly can.
Do you care what caliber he was firing? Probably not. Getting shot by any of the aforementioned bullets will hurt. Test fire some of them at the range, see what fits you best, and carry that. If you can hit your target, center mass, and put in follow-up shots, if necessary, literally nothing else matters. People who get shot don't care what caliber they're getting shot by -- they don't want to get shot.
>YOU WOULDN'T WANNA BE SHOT BY IT ! !
>that webm
He deserves Darwin award.
moron take. Quite literally moronic. Like a woman fricked her own dad then fricked that offspring and had two more and those two fricked and had some kids and those kids all fricked then their kids fricked and this guy was one of those kids moronic.
10mm is how I know someone is not a critical thinker
45-70 gov't anon
the trick here is 9mm vs .40 is actually a good debate,they're both reasonable, and the trade offs are marginal; 10mm is is making recoil for power tradeoffs with the only sacrifice being monetary cost; .45 AARP is objectively the worst- same foot pounds as 9mm with significant disadvantage in capacity and monetary costs, more recoil for same energy on target. 9mm, .40, 10mm are all fine, .45 still works but is objectively inferior.
where is this meme coming from that 45 recoils more than 9mm? also way more energy on target and the energy doesnt pass right through like a 9mm it actually dumps into the target because of the surface area of the projectile
Muzzle jumps more, same felt recoil in my experience.
It's not more energy on target, the permanent wound cavity are just about identical, energy dump is the real meme, neither leave yhe body in most cases
Bigger hole = faster blood loss = fight ends sooner, all things being equal. It's science.
It's not bigger enough to cause meaningfully more blood loss.
Tis
If you’re only comparing jello tests on YouTube then sure, there’s not much difference. But multiply that difference by three or five shots on target in a real life defensive situation. More energy = mire of a chance to shatter bones, rupture organs, etc. Those are fight-stopping injuries. People who think all handguns are the same should go deer hunting with their 9mm, and then try it again with 10mm, 44mag, etc.
More mass, more velocity = more momentum and more energy. Larger diameter= bigger hole.
Bigger hole, deeper hole=better.
Class dismissed.
Here’s a good read that will settle any thoughts on 9 vs 45. Personally I’ve found that recoil in the hand is worse with 9mm 1911 vs 45 because of the slide velocity
https://www.shootingillustrated.com/content/9-mm-vs-45-acp-a-different-kind-of-comparison/
The one you shoot best, dawg.
50 AE unironically, one shot.
The trick is it doesn't really fricking matter.
9mm is the standard for a reason.
10mm if you want more awesome.
Let me at least narrow it down for you. Go 9mm, or 10mm. .40 and .45 are not better enough than 9mm in stopping power to justify the reduced capacity. You could argue that 10mm is.
>>I don't know shit so I'm going to parrot 9mm propaganda
9mm is garbage. An alarmingly large percentage of pistol gunshot victims live. Upwards of 80%. And the most used caliber by far is 9mm. When you dig through motherfricker was shot and lived reports it is always 9mm. It is very rare to find one that is 44 mag. 10mm. .45, 357 magnum. When the police used 357 magnum it was a two shot stop or flee average. And that's because they used to double tap. Now tje average to stop or flee is about 30 something shots from three officers and the perp lives.
9mm is the reason we have had to listen to 50 cent. Had someone used a .45 we all would have been spared.
50 got shot with a duece deuce
>.40 and .45 are not better enough than 9mm in stopping power to justify the reduced capacity.
This is a misrepresentation of the recent FBI study. The FBI decided that 40 and 45 weren't any better for THEM than 9mm for a variety of reasons. One of those reasons was that women still couldn't shoot 40 competently even after it was specifically made because they couldn't handle 10mm. Another reason is budget constraints, and the fact that outfitting over 10k special agents who spend most of their time behind desks with cheaper and easier to shoot 9mm just makes sense. They're the Federal Bureau of Investigation, not the Federal Bureau of Gunfighting. Equipping every FBI agent with an xboxhueg 10mm handgun was always a poorly conceived knee-jerk reaction and an overcompensation when it doesn't really fit their job description anyway.
>Now tje average to stop or flee is about 30 something shots from three officers and the perp lives.
To expand on this, what is ok for cops with qualified immunity to do is not necessarily ok for you to do as a private citizen. Have fun arguing in court why you felt it was necessary to magdump 17 rounds into somebody when the entire encounter was caught on a Ring, dashcam, cellphone, etc. If any of those 17 rounds miss, you are looking at a potential civil suit even if you are cleared of all criminal charges. As Massad Ayoob says, every round you fire has a lawyer attached to it. I'd rather carry a more powerful handgun and potentially end the fight sooner than have a weaker handgun with two or three more rounds on tap. The Law of Diminishing Returns comes into play after a certain point. 9mm is appealing when you're comparing 17 rounds in a Glock 17 vs 8 rounds of 45 ACP in a 1911, but it becomes less relevant when you compare it to 15 rounds of 10mm in a Glock 20 or 13 rounds of 460 Rowland in a converted Glock 21.
Best argument against 9mm right here. There is no situation where you're getting in a prolonged gunfight and come out clean. You should be trying to stop the fight as soon as humanly possible in as few shots as possible.
9mm.
Anyone know a good 9mm styled like a 1911?
Yeah, a 1911 in .45. The best 9mm is a .45.
There are Series 70s that were chambered in 9mm dude. Notable is the one used on Magnum PI, it's supposed to be a .45 in the show but they couldn't get .45 blanks to cycle reliably back then.
Colt may have made some back in the day for the civilian market too, but I dunno. I know they made some in .38 Super for the feds in the 50s, something about wanting them to punch through cars more reliably.
As far as modern weapons go, if you find a reputable manufacturer then chances are any 9mm variant they offer is just as good as the .45s.
Keep in mind that they're probably all single stack, if you want double you should just get a CZ clone or a Hi-Power. The former were inspired by the latter with a DA mechanism, and the latter is literally a 1911 designed as a wonder 9. Maybe less than literally, but Browning's handguns were more or less evolutions of his previous work.
>series 70
I have one in 45 acp from Colt. Anyone know of some good mags for it? Tripp? Wilson?
guns kill people, if I shoot people they die. Its not more complicated than that OP. Lotta talk in here but not very much talk about 38 in a double action which I think is one of the best options
The argument is meaningless since handgun calibers discursion are like watching who is the world mightiest midget. Get whatever and don't miss the shots.
Nope, this is more 9mm cope/propaganda
>9mm is just as good as 45 and 10mm ya know!
>Ok 9mm sucked in the 80's, but we have magic hollowpoint bullets now!
>Ackshually all handguns do is poke holes, so it doesn't even matter what you use as long as you have an AR for backup!
>Handguns suck, so I need something with a huge capacity to magdump into a guy's chest in order to stop the (singular) threat. Shot placement is king!
>380, 30SC, and 5.7 don't offer any significant advantages (read: are too expensive). I'm just gonna stick with 9mm because you should just carry what you shoot the best anyway! :^)
>You people who own (insert other caliber here) don't even shoot! Post your guns! >:^(
It's all so tiresome.
Everything green is true. 10mm is the best but its not as comfortable as a small light 9mm that will still kill someone. This is a debate about carrying, otherwise we would all agree a revolver wins.
I feel im in the company of boomers in this thread so i will now leave at not look back.
>10mm is the best but its not as comfortable as a small light 9mm that will still kill someone.
A Glock 29 is about the same size as a Glock 19 though.
Since you mentioned revolvers, I'm going to take this opportunity to loredump about the politically incorrect history of 10mm that no youtuber will tell you. Many believe that the story of 10mm started with the 1986 Miami-Dade shootout, but it actually goes all the way back to the 1898 Moro Rebellion in the Philippines when the US Army was tasked with putting down various native insurgent groups who practiced various flavors of folk Islam and folk Catholicism. Many of these fanatical cults believed that magic amulets would protect them from gunfire as long as they charged headlong into battle. They may have also been under the narcotic or painkilling influence of indigenous folk medicine. In any case, it soon became apparent that the standard issue 38 Long Colt M1892 revolver lacked the stopping power to adequately penetrate the wooden shields of the charging Moro warriors. Note that I said "stopping power" and not "killing power." Many of the insurgents, who were armed with spears and machetes, would keep fighting for several seconds despite being fatally wounded. One of the most graphic references about lack of stopping power comes from Colonel Louis A. LaGarde, M.D. in his classic text, "Gunshot Injuries", published in 1916.
(1/?)
Intensely moronic fudlore. Sounds like something you'd read in Guns and Ammo in the 90's.
LaGarde writes the following:
>Antonio Caspi a prisoner on the Island of Samar, P.I. attempted to escape on Oct. 26, 1905. He was shot four times at close range in a hand-to-hand encounter by a .38 Colt's revolver loaded with U.S. Army regulation ammunition. He was finally stunned by a blow on the forehead from the butt end of a Springfield carbine. 1. Bullet entered chest near right nipple, passed upward, backwards and outwards, perforated lung and escaped through back passing through edge of right scapula. 2. Bullet entered chest through left nipple, passed upwards, backwards and inwards, perforating lung and lodging in subcutaneous tissues. 3. Bullet entered chest near left shoulder, passing downwards and backwards, perforating lung and lodged in back. 4. Bullet entered through palm of left hand and passed through subcutaneous tissues and escaped through wound on anterior surface of forearm. Treated at military hospital, Borongan, Samar. Turned over to civil authorities cured, Nov. 23, 1905.
This exacting, clinical description by Col. LaGarde, is chilling in its implicit condemnation of the .38 Colt. Incidents like this resulted in the mothballed 45 caliber Colt Single Action Army revolvers being hastily shipped over to the Philippines, and the 1904 Thompson–LaGarde Tests on cattle and human cadavers that determined that nothing less than a 45-caliber weapon was a sufficient "manstopper" for close encounters. This resulted in the underpowered M1892 "New Army and Navy" revolver getting beefed up into the M1909 Colt New Service large frame 45 caliber revolver. In the meantime, the government solicited Colt's archrival, Smith & Wesson, to improve the 38 Long Colt cartridge. This eventually resulted in what we now know as the .38 Special cartridge. The .38 Special held a minimum of 21 grains of black powder, 3 grains more than the then-current .38 Long Colt, and muzzle velocity (with a 158 grain bullet) was 100–150 feet per second greater.
(2/?)
Coincidentally, prior to 1914, cocaine was federally legal in the United States, and it was even encouraged to use on the job as a stimulant to increase productivity by some bosses who believed that it made black laborers more resistant to fatigue, heat, and colt. In many cities, cocaine was cheaper than alcohol, and became the drug of choice for non-medical users outside the middle-aged, American, professional class. Cocaine consumption had grown in 1903 to about five times that of 1890. Mainstream media reported cocaine epidemics as early as 1894 in Dallas, Texas. Reports of the cocaine epidemic would foreshadow a familiar theme in later so-called epidemics, namely that cocaine presented a social threat more dangerous than simple health effects and had insidious results when used by blacks and members of the lower class. Similar anxiety-ridden reports appeared throughout cities in the South, leading some to declare that "the cocaine habit has assumed the proportions of an epidemic among the colored people". In 1900, state legislatures in Alabama, Georgia, and Tennessee considered anti-cocaine bills for the first time. Hyperbolic reports of the effect of cocaine on African Americans went hand-in-hand with this hysteria. In 1901, the Atlanta Constitution reported that "Use of the drug [cocaine] among Black folks is growing to an alarming extent". The New York Times reported that under the influence of cocaine, "sexual desires are increased and perverted... peaceful Black folks become quarrelsome, and timid Black folks develop a degree of 'Dutch courage' that is sometimes almost incredible". A medical doctor even wrote "cocaine is often the direct incentive to the crime of rape by the Black folks." To complete the characterization, a judge in Mississippi declared that supplying a "Black" with cocaine was more dangerous than injecting a dog with rabies."
In response to the threat of black "coke fiends," law enforcement began to move away from their old 32-caliber revolvers to new 38 Special revolvers from Colt and Smith & Wesson. By the 1920's, law enforcement continually demanded more power from the 38 Special, which eventually led S&W to develop the totally new .357 Magnum cartridge with a longer case length in 1934. This new cartridge had the power to penetrate automobile doors and the primitive body armor of the time used by the Prohibition Era's notorious gangsters and bank robbers. Keep in mind that, at that time, the 45-caliber 1911 automatic pistol was considered by many to be "for war" and inhumane to use in domestic policing. The aforementioned .357 Magnum revolvers were not even carried in the regular S&W catalog, they were special order only for “men of exceptional physique” and used for long range target shooting or hunting. The Police standard long gun was the 12ga double barrel shotgun or pump, proven effective in WWI. The Tommy guns and high power rifles needed for take down such as Bonnie and Clyde or Pretty Boy Floyd were never adopted by average officers.
In the 1950s, led by Ed Mcgivern, Elmer Keith and other gun writers who advocated for the widespread adoption of the .357 Magnum with a 158 grain soft lead Keith designed semi-wadcutter slug over the then standard police 38 Special 158 grain round nose bullet for more stopping power. Only experts adopted it as the recoil of the .357 was deemed “too heavy”. In the 1960’s the excellent .357 Magnum 125 grain hollow point revolver load was introduced, upping the power even more and giving excellent results for stopping (it remains the top revolver fighting load to this day) with much less recoil than the heavy 158gr slug. This load gradually became the police standard for the next 30 years. Revolver magnum hollow points widely appeared and the 38 Special among the police began “The Long Fade”. FMJ ammo was still the only carry ammo for automatics. There were no SWAT teams, Special Entry Teams, K9 units or “backup”. The motto among police was “One officer, one riot”. Police carried 6 rounds in the pistol and 12 on the belt. However, the black race riots of the 60's and early 70's began to change that mentality. 44 Magnum was already in existence (since 1956) via Special Order and 4 month wait from the factory and was considered exclusively a hunting arm for Bear or Moose and was never considered a “police” revolver. The .44 Magnum was viscerally exposed to the public in the movie “Dirty Harry”. Ironically the first people shot with a 44 Magnum in that movie are 4 blacks. Demand for Smith and Wesson .44 Magnums far exceeded the supply for the next 15 years, some customers waiting over a year for their revolvers. Movies like Dirty Harry and "Death Wish" reflected the fears of the American public around rampant criminality in the early 70's, and both law enforcement and private citizens soon began clamoring for a firearm with the power of Dirty Harry's 44 Magnum with the capacity and ease of reloading of an autoloader.
In the late 1970’s, led by the SuperVel company, autopistol cartridge tech advanced enough that the first hollow points for autos that worked reliably were released, thus 9mm and 45 automatics were encouraged for speed of reloading and higher number of cartridges in the magazine vs only six in the cylinder of a revolver. The .357 Magnum still dominated police sales and the powerful 125 grain Jacketed hollow point was standard issue and extremely effective. In the 1980’s police still used the 357 magnum revolver almost exclusively but the autopistol began to make serious inroads encouraged by weapons masters such as Massad Ayoob and Col. Jeff Cooper. In 1991, Cooper wrote in Guns & Ammo magazine that "no more than five to ten people in a hundred who die by gunfire in Los Angeles are any loss to society. These people fight small wars amongst themselves. It would seem a valid social service to keep them well-supplied with ammunition." In 1994, Cooper said "Los Angeles and Ho Chi Minh City have declared themselves sister cities. It makes sense: they are both Third World metropolises formerly occupied by Americans." The 10mm Auto cartridge, equivalent to the 357 Magnum in an auto pistol, was developed and embraced by Cooper and for a short time adopted by the FBI, but this weapon proved too powerful for the female Affirmative Action hires. The FBI eventually settled on a shortened, lower pressure version of the 10mm Auto called the 40 S&W. This 40 S&W cartridge was considered a compromise design with more cartridges in the magazine than the 45 ACP and more stopping power than the 9mm that still could be fired by the relatively untrained or a small woman. The 10mm was also hard on guns (even carbines) that were not designed specifically for its high pressure and recoil, breaking parts not set up for severe duty.
In the 1990’s, in the aftermath of the 4 day 1992 L.A. riot (which marked the first filming of civilians shooting blacks with assault rifles on American soil) which made our largest city look like a war zone in Nigeria, the LAPD found themselves in over 200 firefights simultaneously. In response, police nationwide went over completely to the auto pistol. Police abandoned the concept of the pure horsepower and reliability of the revolver so as to gain a numerical number of cartridges against large numbers of minorities attacking at once or extended firefights. Also there was the desire on the part of the Police to take advantage of the faster reloading, faster shooting and excellent trigger of the auto. The concept of +P cartridge designation developed, as auto pistol owners still longed for the pure horsepower of the revolver. 10mm's ability to better stand a fighting chance against a criminal using an automobile as cover was one of the reasons the FBI originally considered it after the 1986 Miami-Dade shootout. It wasn't until the aftermath of the 1997 North Hollywood shootout and the 9/11 attacks that law enforcement and the general public at large became comfortable with cops being issued modern carbines like the AR-15 as standard.
I was shooting .40sw in my clock 27 and my hand started feeling numb, is it over for me?
have you considered .357 magnum
Right now I'm leaning towards the recent trend of ccw sized locked breech 380 guns.
>P365-360
>Security 380
>Now there's even a 380 Walther PDP
Literally 0 recoil. Put holes wherever you want on the target even if you are panicking and shidding urself.
Just find a video of anybody shooting one of those. The pistol instantly goes back right into its previous place when firing.
Holy shit, the 380 PDP is a fricking da/sa hammer gun even
The PD380 is just an updated PK380, still cool imo. A hammer is nice when you want to reholster safely by putting your thumb over the back. I would get one if I needed a smaller gun.
Is it from Walther or "Walther" (Umarex)
The best way to look at it is to go by use case.
Just going to the gas station for some beer? An LCP or 5-shot .38 is good enough.
Traveling? A compact handgun with a weapon light and spare mag gives you peace of mind in most situations.
Going out and about in your average, daily life? A micro-compact 9mm is fine.
Hiking or going innawoods? 10mm will punch through brush and, with the right loads, the thick flesh of a larger predator.
The platform itself matters way more than the caliber imo. A Walther PDP will feel and function differently than a Beretta 92. A manual safety may make you feel safer carrying it but it gives you something to keep in mind when drawing. Ultimately, this is your decision. What makes the most sense based on what you expect to be doing day-to-day and what do you feel most comfortable with?
>use case
>platform
Try touching grass before offering real world advice.
I don't get it
Only chronically online people talk about guns like that.
12 ga. because you don't even have to aim. Just point in the general direction.
They all have their selling points, but as others have said...'Service' calibers for a handgun will all do the job.
Focus on getting the gun that suits you and your needs best; do a little research and select your carry ammo carefully (reliability, penetration, expansion); then practice.
Just get a double barreled shotgun chief you don't need a fully semiautomatic assault rifle of war, someone breaks in you rack it out on the balcony and fire a couple warning shots in the air jack, the 9 mm completely removes the lungs from the body and it doesn't even have a shoulder thing that goes up. Criminals deserve to live just like white folks do. I'm a uh I'm ah I'm I'm
>>What handgun caliber is best
>>all handgun calibers are the same
A man walks up to you on the street. You are knocked out and duct taped to a light pole. He tells you you are going to be shot once in the stomach and let go. You get to choose the pistol caliber from the assortment he has.
Bet your ass won't choose the 44 magnum. Nor will you choose the 357 magnum. Nope, you won't pick 10mm. One look at that .45 barrel and that's out.
There is a good chance you pick reduced recoil 9mm duty ammo. One of the most popular law enforcement choices.
Unironically I'll ask what boolit is in each of them. If that 357 mag has a RNFP cast boolit, you better believe I'm picking that one.
Bullets poke holes in people and make them bleed out, don’t overthink it too much. Get something that you can handle and is easy enough to find. A 9mm handgun from a reputable manufacturer should be good!
.30 Luger. Abercrombie
I like .40 S&W, I've carried either a Glock 23/27 or a Styer M40a1 for years. I think partly it's because when I started carrying, police surplus glocks were about $200 at my lgs, and .40 ammo was $10-12 a box. I also did a ton (I'm talking 100s of hours over the course of about 6 months) of research about the defensive ammo available, number of shots fired in real world situations, gel tests, police reports, etc... and decided .40 was best for my situation (semi-rural, low-crime area, multi-person altercations non existent except for a cartel assassination that happened here a few years back when some Honduran dude tried to steal a bunch of fentanyl, so I could sacrifice a couple rounds of capacity to hit harder, cold winters so people wear heavy clothing, a lot of time driving for work so needed something that is barrier blind vs car glass/sheetmetal/layers of heavy clothing). Carried the 23 and M40a1 mostly, but have recently been liking the 27 since it disappears in a pocket pretty well for when I don't feel like putting on a holster. +I don't like 9mm because the negligible increase in capacity does not offset the massive decrease in energy, and I can always throw a 22-round stendo in the glock if I think I need extra for some reason. I don't like .45 ACP because it has minimum capacity with worse performance than .40 S&W. I do like .380 for pocket guns because I can actually rapid fire it and stay on target 1 handed with a tiny pistol, while pocket 9mms are not very controllable. My home defense and woods gun is a USP45 Elite, but I keep .45 super in it, and a 255gr bullet going 1250fps is solidly into .44 magnum territory, except I have 13 shots and a great recoil reduction system.
Doesn't make a difference. A gunshot from anything will stop a human. Stop being a nerd
.45acp is the most versatile and fits almost every situation you would need a sidearm to.
USP .45 is the perfect gun to use it in.
Why are you making this up? I think I am making this post a third time but again 45 ACP struggles to consistently reach expansion velocities out of a five inch barrel. 45 is far from ideal in compact guns, and if you are trying to pretend to be professional there is good chance your ammo is unsafe.
The advantage of 45 was always the fact that it’s already “expanded” in diameter vs 9mm or the old timey 32 and 38 caliber revolver projectiles.
are you trolling me? Yes 45 ACP is a projectile that is larger in diameter it is not “already expanded” there is a velocity threshold projectiles need to meet in order to fragment or for hollow points to expand in order to mitigate penetration. You are between shooting 45 +P, FMJs, or the meme frangible… if you are doing out of a compact it’s even more unnecessary… explain how 45 is being shilled so hard for carry. Are you all giant fat fricks with six inch barrel 1911s for EDC?
Two fricking holes. That's how you kill. Expansion and breakup is unreliable at best. Two holes and the volume of the wound as large as possible. 10mm. 44. .45. 9mm need not apply.
Edgy fed nonsense, there is in fact modern 9mm (and 45 when reaching the appropriate velocity) ammunition that can expand cleanly and reliably.
>>.45 is fed nonsense
Feds use underpowered 9mm reduced recoil duty ammo moron.
The discussion is about carry ammunition which is also about safety. You are going off on a tangent.
All ammunition is carry ammo if it's what you have. Shooting when you do not know what is behind a target or wall is third world shit. Not having situational awareness the enough practice to fire from an angle that keeps the innocent safe is unforgivable moronism. So shut the frick up trans.
Two fricking holes. That's how you kill. The ONLY reason to point and fire at another human is to kill them. The biggest fricking through and through possible.
Everything else is pussy feminized bullshit or the actions of those with legal immunity who do not care about human life.
See
45 was popularized over the smaller calibers long before hollowpoints were even a thing.
.40 has won b2b2b2b gang wars.
There's also a reason 90s-10s chad cops used it to put down thousands of methoids and doctors/lawyers/astronauts. Modern femboy cops use 9mm because they have dainty wrists.
I stick with tried and true in da skreetz
Cops just do whatever the FBI does.
the one you can shoot accurately and control easily. go to the fricking range, rent 5 guns(38 spl, 45 acp, 9mm, 10mm, 380acp) and put 50 rounds through each. the one that works best, you buy and then you go to the fricking range every week and put another 50 rounds through that gun until shooting it feels like second nature to you.
whichever has the highest capacity for a decent cost. Currently it's the 9mm
>capacity
Largely a meme after 10-13 rounds since the median number of shots fired in a study of hundreds of real-life defensive situations involving armed citizens (i.e. not cops) was something like two. Even 9mmgays have to admit that capacity isn't everything when guns like the P365 and Hellcat are so popular despite *only* holding about 10 rounds anyway. Yes, more bullets is always a good thing, but the first bullet you fire at an assailant matters a lot more than the last.
>wristlets still think the FBI 12" minimum penetration in gel is adequate when obesity has DOUBLED since the 1980's and the average American BMI has increased by 1kg per decade
Imagine being saved from 10mm because you had a massive belly.
Last I checked, fat people don't store lipid slabs over their heart or their t-box. But perhaps the American diet has led to powers some would consider... unnatural.
Fat is also stored internally around the organs. Particularly really fat homosexuals.
I carry a full size usp 45 with underwood +p ammo. 12 in the mag one in the chamber.
swag is for boys, drip is for men
Just get 9mm its super common and youll shoot it more often because its the affordable option
ur mom
Personally, I'm planning on getting a Glock 26 Gen 5 for pocket carry and carrying a larger spare magazine in my other pocket. I might even modify my pockets to fit an Omega 9K suppressor while pocket carrying.
9mm, 40S&W, 45ACP, 10mm all have similar effects on the human body when you're shooting within spitting range. Pick something you're comfortable shooting and consider that the amount of rounds fired is going to probably be the most important factor if you ever actually have to use it.
No they don't. You suck dick and badly and should be ashamed.
They absolutely do. The biggest difference in common handgun loads, especially within 25 yards, is mostly projectile type. The actual differences in the effect on a lightly clothed human body between common calibers is otherwise relatively negligible.
no homosexual. no
Whatever makes you feel better moron.
I feel better knowing that nobody believes your bullshit.
You haven't presented a single point and you communicate like a spastic moron 16 year old.
>>a heavier, faster, larger diameter bullet does no more damage than a significantly lighter, slower, smaller bullet in humans.
I don't need to present shit you moronic non binary clown. What you have said is so fricking moronic it refutes itself.
It's on you to prove your point. In your own words like a man. As you have experienced and understand it. Not on others to prove your fantasy parrots wrong. Fricking dipshit kids.
Yeah that's all great in theory. Functionally, as in out here in reality, there is very little difference when it comes to interaction on the human body. The scales in differences you're talking about in regards to mass and velocity are so minuscule that there is little variance when it comes to the complex volume of a human body. The factor that causes the most change in those dynamics is the type of projectile within that range.
Negative wiener rider. The difference between terminal ballistics in just the 9mm to 10mm in humans and deer sized game is vast. On the order of mag dump vs one shot kill.
>>but muh, muh bullet design
Does not close the gap but instead widens it.
>>but muh powder improvement!
Does not close the gap it makes it wider.
Not anon, but I'm curious why you mean by kill. For example, the 10mm could kill in one shot but still be equal in incapacitation for a certain amount of time. If the deer were charging you on drugs, would you still only need to fire one bullet before it could physically reach you if if it were in typical self defense distances? My guess is no, and if 10mm fails to be significantly different in this regard, then 380 is the winner of this thread.
You're shooting deer with 10mm and 9mm inside of 25 yards? You sure?
Tree stand
Mag dumping is moronic. Everyone practices on paper and then in real life they scream like a little b***h the first time a bullet goes by them and they don't aim, look or hit shit.
Controlled pairs.
Yeah. Every argument made about stoppin powah is invalidated with the idea of shot placement. It's fun to entertain all of these myths spawned from marketing gimmicks though isn't it.
Also the legal system isn't applied equally and fairly to every person. You could mag dump someone attacking you with a knife in one state and be fine, go a state over and do the same thing and you could be in legal trouble. Especially if you're attacked by a promising future doctor who was on his way to an after school program, declining his offer to culturally enrich you in one area may be fine; in others not so much.
There is no one size fits all answer to this. Do your research, go rent some handguns and get a feel for what's comfortable to carry and shoot, see who your local DA is,etc etc.
And before anyone says "even if you're charged a lawyer will get you off", that's not the point. If they are the type to charge you for defending yourself, you're going to get publicly smeared and have to spend lots of money and time fighting the charges,and even if you win there's no apology from the state or public retraction.
The very report people use to claim all pistol calibers are the same also shows that the amount of shots required to stop an aggressor and /or end an engagement correlate directly to amount of energy, bullet weight and diameter. Bigger, heavier and faster is proven to stop humans and game faster. Period.
Hunting videos have given us a front row seat to more experience than we can get firsthand in a lifetime.
In both rifle and handguns with the exact same shot placement one shot stops happen DRT.
In other words we can see first hand you are moronic. That
>>shot placement
>>they are all good enough
>>the one you have on you
>>the one you shoot the best
Are all cope and seethe homosexualry parroted by people that can not wrap their puny minds around the fact that there are superior tools for the job.
Enjoy your reduced recoil "ass rape me please" 9mm dipshit.
Claiming that shot placement is somehow not important makes everything you've said and everything you'll say after this point completely, thoroughly and provably moronic.
If you're in an actual gunfight/self-defense situation and you don't magdump, you're doing it wrong either way.
>but muh stoppan powah
Irrelevant
>but muh civil suits
Between a civil suit and getting your ass pasted because you went for the "one shot, one kill" meme, which one would you rather risk? If you pick the second, you're a moron and/or suicidal.
8mm nambu
44. mag if you got the dick for it
.32acp
Alright you dumbass Black person here's the last post you will EVER need to pick a cartridge. Here's all the shit you can use.
>9mm Para
normieshit but it works
>.40 S&W
homieshit and boomershit but it works
>.45 ACP
boomershit and expensive but it works
>10mm
Hipsterhomosexualry and expensive but it works.
>.380 ACP
womanshit but it works
>.32 ACP
ancientshit and old as frick but it works
>.357 maggy-numb
cowboyshit but it works
>.44 maggy-numb
serious cowboyshit and expensive but it works
>.38 special
greatestgenerationshit but it works
>50 AE
very expensive homiejewnormiegayshit but it works
>.22 LR
homie, please. Do better.
>OKAY BUT HOW BIG SHOULD IT BE??
I don't know homie, maybe go hold one. Is it too big? Get a smaller one. Is it too small? get a smaller one. Go practice with that shit. Git Guud wid it. Go suck by big black homie ballz, never make these threads again.
>Is it too big? Get a smaller one. Is it too small? get a smaller one
kek
You forgot 25 ACP.
okay moron
>.25 Ass Cap Pussy
Expensive, hard to find, pussycore boomershit 1905-lookin-ass motherfricker round. You can just barely make it work. But you are the BIGGEST wigger if you use one.
here's me a .32 s&w long enjoyer
i just like carrying my 632 ok?
'
460 Smith&Wesson magnum if you’re looking purely for stopping power. If you’re also taking it into the woods, likely a 9mm for the extra penetration due to sectional density, bullet selection and availability and cost or a 357/44. for a 1911 I think 45 acp has less felt recoil than the 9mm variants depending on your slide weight. the gun design and size should influence your decisions more than the cartridge really if you’re carrying for humans
50bmg
Every minute spent obsessing over the "best" ammo is a minute you could have spent dry firing or shooting on the range. Jim Cirillo got in over 200 gunfights back in the '60s and that mofo carried ugly ass taped-up model 10s with .38 wadcutters.
Carry something you'd trust your life too, put the shots where they're supposed to go, and we're all gonna make.it.
Shooting unarmed people in the back of the head isn't a "gunfight". Nor is shooting them unarmed in the front. Nor is shooting them when they are armed but completely unsuspecting.
Don't invoke a name thinking it will give your opinion credibility if you don't know. And you don't know.
Think about things. This isn't 1923.
> Akshully, nobody ever shot back at Jim Cirillo
- /k/, 2024
You’re a moron. you think he purely shot Black folk and white trash in the back sure he did do some of that but plenty of the aforementioned groups shot back and a few even wounded some of the squad.
.32 with the tiniest gun you can find
Personally I like .45 however 9mm is good for handlets and compact gats.
.38 spec is good as well for snubs which are comfy.
I have big hands and fit so 45 guns don't bother me but I wouldn't suggest everyone to pack a .45 but if you can you should. Also the FNX has 16 rounds so capacity is an old argument in favor of 9 elitists (They forgot bullet tech advanced for .45 as well lol)
?si=94LXn9ry3tskd2Ym
>for carry
Capacity trumps all therefore 9mm best. Next.
gunfights are 3 rounds over 3 seconds at 3 yards source FBI.
Capacity is a meme and since capacity has gone up lethality has gone down.
Because most gunfights are people shooting and running away and that heavily skews the stats. If you need to actually stop a dude and heaven forbid his buddies tell me three shots will be enough.
>>tell me.three shots will be enough
44 magnum. One shot will be enough. A controlled pair is better.
>Capacity trumps all therefore 5.7x28mm best. Next.
ftfy
It don't really matter, you put some lead in someone they're gonna frick off.
>WHATS THE BEST HANDGUN CALIBER FOR CARRY????????
depends
what race are you?
10mm
but then again not available in the pistol you may want
the answer is .44 magnum if you're above 70 kilos
.357 magnum if you're below 70 kilos
This, but 154lbs and not that euroshit weight measurement.
g19.5 MOS or p365 don't listen to the autists who argue