you'd never visually see your enemy, similar to most modern forms of warfare, it's not intended to be fair. if your technology isn't up to par, and even if it is, there's a chance that one moment you exist, and the next moment you on the floor, bleeding out, before you mind realizes what's happened, you've bled out.
if you're lucky you get knocked unconscious and die before reawaking.
like what you'd imagine a submarine battle to be, everyone groping around in blindness, using passive sensors most of the time, suddenly firing missiles a frickload of missiles, instant mass death, and then start over
>no boarding action fighting >no colliding into other vessels >no flying out of cannons > gays sit in control rooms all day until they get sunk by torpedoes
1000s of ASM crossing in mid-air, all ships on both side rekt 1 hour after first launch.
In the aftermath it will be said that SYSTEMS were possibly capable if allowed to do their thing in fully automated mode, but it was human commanders that forced themselves into the response chain and quickly got overloaded. There was a moment of confusion as it if they were talking about the same bogey, or if it was additional (it was, like dozens) and it all went to shit and panic.
It wouldn’t be like ww2 because there’d be no strategic uncertainty — both sides would know, generally, where everyone else was at any given time. That includes submarines. Acoustic signaling tech is probably so good now they could track individual whales across an ocean. Maybe they’re still more stealthy than surface ships but all those hydrophone stations running through modern CPUs and tech probably means no one is going to sneak up on anyone else’s fleet; if a sub gets close the fleet will be aware and go hunting for it. What will happen is a surface action group / fleet will come into missile range and start spamming missiles; whichever side has more missiles than the other side can intercept is the one that ones. Hypersonics (real ones) change up that calculus if Chinese / Russian-based AD can’t intercept them. In fact it might be Chinese combat systems are too inferior vs Western ones and end up being much less effective in actual combat — but in theory it should come down to a strictly numbers game. Western ships are much more resistant to damage, but any ship hit by a giant anti-shipping missile warhead is going to be a mission-kill even if it can technically survive.
Carriers are useless in a fleet engagement outside of stealth and even then the firepower F-35s bring to a naval battle would be insignificant. Carriers would be useful in anti-sub ops, doing logistics, recon, etc but not a major factor in a surface engagement.
Carriers and their aircraft are the main deterrence against subs who could otherwise hunt their surface escorts with impunity. Modern submarines are vastly more powerful than modern destroyers but have negligible ability to fend off even helicopters.
>subsams probably don't exist
actually they do, but they need to get get lots better
during the Cold War both NATO and Soviets trialled MANPADs mounted on periscopes
the Germans are working on the IDAS system (picrel) which is an IRIS optically and infrared-guided missile fired from a torpedo tube
the problem with these systems is that they are far too short-ranged for the sub commander to be happy to use them; an ASW helicopter could well have detected them and launched a torpedo by the time they in turn launch a missile
also, there is the question of how the submarine manages to find the helicopter without being detected itself in the first place
until we can get a submarine-launched drone with an air-search radar - and that is some way away - this kind of weapon won't be as useful as simply hiding
Dude was the commander of a SSBN-Carrier hybrid with a nuke launching railgun mounted in there for good measure
3 months ago
Anonymous
ah I see
sounds badass
3 months ago
Anonymous
>SLBMs >Also a nuke launching railgun
Why?
3 months ago
Anonymous
Strategic vs tactical.
Why waste shekels on beeg canon, when nuclear fricking railgun exists and makes everyone else give up automatically?
It's called psychological warfare anon. Just a really brute force version of it.
>in theory it should come down to a strictly numbers game
Then west wind handily too. Chinks have got absolutely nothing on JASSM/LRASM which are launched by carrier aircraft. I doubt entire chinese missile forces can match the firepower of a single CSG at ranges further than SRBMs can reach.
Your ideas about detectability of subs and the utility of carriers are stupid.
Why can’t these things be intercepted just like everything else? If a Chinese surface group has thousands of interceptors how many sorties will a carrier need to launch to punch through that?
>Why can’t these things be intercepted just like everything else?
Because these missiles are that much better than anything else, hypersanics included it's not even comparable.
> If a Chinese surface group has thousands of interceptors
they don't, and chinese interceptors are utter shit based on russian tech.
Then the discussion is pointless because it will always devolve to “China is garbage so they lose lol”. Even if that’s true that CAN’T be the basis for a discussion.
Carriers and their aircraft are the main deterrence against subs who could otherwise hunt their surface escorts with impunity. Modern submarines are vastly more powerful than modern destroyers but have negligible ability to fend off even helicopters.
It's sort of like rock+paper+scissors. Carriers are great against battleships, battlecruisers, and cruisers. Submarines are great against carriers. Destroyers are great against submarines. And cruisers and such are great against destroyers. Battleships are great against cruisers and destroyers.
What makes people think any of those fricking censors would survive an actual war? Hurt dur muh satellites. As soon as anyone figured out a satellite was used for military purposes it would be shot down. And all these buoys would be destroyed as well.
so my idea we should have fake fleet that the enemy spams missiles at then our fleet of submarine f35 carriers surfaces behind them and pulls their pants down. fund it
Memes aside, a battleship that was capable of fending off YJ-21 and YJ-18 missiles would force China to not only develop a more powerful warhead but refit its entire fleet just to be able to use it, forcing them to spend more than the cost of the battleship to counter it in a Fleet in Being moment.
Explosives defeat armor more cheaply than the armor costs.
China wouldn’t need to reoutfit their entire fleet because they don’t rely on their ships for defense. They just shit out a bunch of bigger land based missiles. Maybe build a few fast missile boats to further the range.
Shit, just containerize them and drop them in the ocean from transports hundreds of miles in front of the battleship. You now have weapons emplacements that are nearly impossible to track or engage.
A semisubmersible container would be a ridiculously good area denial platform.
If you’re not trying to project power halfway around the globe but are just protecting your shores, why spend a billion dollars on a sub or destroyer as a platform for a few dozen missiles when you could have several hundred for the same price?
Why was the inferior frog Charles Du Goal carrier at the front when they took that pic and not the HMS Ocean?
Frogs trying to stay relevant is so disgraceful.
>carrierlet >now replaced with two FRICKING RAMP that can't even take to sea >nuclear deterrence is busted >no cruise missiles on surface combattants >loses a minehunter to a parking accident
A genoux devant le TAVREAV français, Angloïde
>carrierlet >now replaced with two FRICKING RAMP that can't even take to sea >nuclear deterrence is busted >no cruise missiles on surface combattants >loses a minehunter to a parking accident
A genoux devant le TAVREAV français, Angloïde
>organic
hey frogget, we don't laugh at you when you burn down your SSBN or when M51 misfires or when PA2 is cancelled, so you shut the frick up and play nice
>SSBN
Perle is a SSN not a SSBN, it's on its way out for the Suffren class, and despite the fire we've managed to restore it to near-pristine condition and put it back in the fleet. Could you do that? >M51 misfire
Fair criticism, but when our ICBM fails, it does take off and it happens only once. And at least it's OUR ICBM not American hands-me-down >PA2
Partly cancelled because of Sarkozy's homosexualry, but also because you refused a shared design. We'd both have a CVN each and work as allies, but instead you decided to suck the US' balls and now you're stuck with A FRICKING RAMP while we're developing a Nimitz-sized CVN. >p-p-play nice pls :'(
Payback for decades of WW2 jokes, Rosbiff. Publicly admit that you couldn't have evacuated Dunkirk without the French sacrifice and that you only resisted the Krauts by the skin of your teeth because you were an island, and maybe we'll stop humiliating you.
>Perle is a SSN not a SSBN
my mistake >Could you do that?
can if we have to, don't have to if we don't frick up >you refused a shared design
bullshit; you got the full CV specs AS AGREED. if YOU decided to go nuclear that's YOUR fricking problem. >now you're stuck with A FRICKING RAMP while we're developing a Nimitz-sized CVN
good for you
unlike you, I can be happy for allies, and I sincerely hope the French can deploy two carriers, nuclear or not
but in the meantime you're stuck with A PART-TIME CARRIER CAPABILITY >Payback
nonsense
you're just an ornery frickwit who disgraces the name of France >you only resisted the Krauts by the skin of your teeth because you were an island
we could have resisted them on the mainland together but you refused
and then you spent your time betraying yourselves and massacring yourselves
the fricking SPANISH of all people did a better job at guerilla warfare against Napoleon than you did against Hitler
and the overseas pieds noirs were no better; despite also being separated by the sea, they took every EXCUSE they could to not fight for the homeland, despite being given every chance >and maybe we'll stop humiliating you.
your seethe is entirely one-sided. nobody brings this shit up unless you start the ball rolling. everybody would respect the great French accomplishments in defence in the 21st century, if you weren't such a homosexual about it.
so learn to shut up and be humble for just once in your life, and maybe you will earn some real respect that way.
or don't - it's your life.
>can if we have to, don't have to if we don't frick up
So about that minehunter... >you decided to go nuclear
What good is a non-nuke carrier? Same shit with the Aussies, you Anglos are all the same disingenuous slimy homosexuals >we could have resisted them on the mainland together but you refused
On that, you have a point. Our politicians and generals were moronic but and negated any advantage we had wat before the war. There were also external factors such as the Belgians being homosexuals who refused to allow the Maginot line on their frontier. >Resistance
Again, you're mostly correct on that one.The Resistance only had a serious strategic effect when it was organized to support the Allied landings, and it was nearly taken over by the Commies in the later part, if it wasn't for De Gaulle. >overseas didn't want to fight
On that however, frick you. We had fricking Tahitians and Caribean volunteers fighting Germans and Italians in the Sahara. Our greatest fighter ace Pierre Closterman volunteered from a cushy life in Brazil where his dad was a diplomat. >muh respect
Let's go back to
Why was the inferior frog Charles Du Goal carrier at the front when they took that pic and not the HMS Ocean?
Frogs trying to stay relevant is so disgraceful.
>"hehe foocking frogs showin off, disgraceful innit, lads? UK numbah one tally-ho!" >gets reality checked about the state of the Royal Navy >*switches to Queen's English* "We would never say that to you, we're allies by Jove!" *sobs* "You're a disgrace to the good name of France"
Suce ma bite
>about that minehunter
mistakes happen, and it'll buff out >What good is a non-nuke carrier?
you know very well what good it is, so YOU stop being disingenuous
and once again, it's not our fault that France bought a conventional design, then changed its mind, then found itself unable to continue >On that however,
most of Africa went Vichy and had to be defeated again before reluctantly helping the Allies >Let's go back to
it's obvious fricking bait, moron, and you swallowed it hook, line and sinker
The French are much more relevant than GB militarily speaking in the current day and age. Stronger and more independent production, larger numbers of everything, and more overseas bases more evenly spread that would enable them to operate almost anywhere on earth.
Subs are going to turn out to be useless. This isn’t ww2 nor is it the Cold War. This stuff is classified of course but it’s probably a situation in which, today, it’s impossible to hide underwater. There’s big networks of hydrophones sitting in deep-sea locations everywhere, modern towed-arrays are gigantic and far more performant than in the 80s and equipped on everything, tech like low-frequency active sonar, beam-forming, etc and signal processing with the latest CPUs and software. No one is getting anywhere near someone else under or above water without them being seen/heard a long way away. The USN probably monitors the movement of PLAN subs from literally across the Pacific. A sub that’s seen is a dead sub.
In not too long there will be fleets of autonomous MAD-equipped sailing drones which will be integrated in a data-link to track every single submarine on the planet which isn't in port.
Subs can get as quiet as they like, but they can't hide the fact that they're not made of seawater.
Finding the subs is one thing, but engaging them is a horse of a different color in the high seas where most aircraft are going to be slaved to carrier groups. Incidentally, Japan's strategy of making 'I can't believe it's not a carrier" helicopter destroyers would end up being an important asset in chasing down wolfpacks separate from the big fleets.
bvr missile spam
A2A combat consists of bvr missile spam
land forces routinely engage in bvr artillery spam (guns are cheaper than missiles)
it's not fun or kino, but it's eminently survivable.
Except for legs, but those are the cheapest units a military has. Modern (peer-ish) war is really a battle of accounting.
All over the horizon stuff, using shit loads of missiles. C-WIZ on constant blast, plus RIM-116 firing off like mad. The goal is to overwhelm the defenses at a particular point and have an anti-ship missile slip through.
You'd probably see a return of lighter boats in a big way that will use a mixture of their speed and agility to harass and deliver crippling blows to slower escorts before going after merchantmen and logistics. This is especially important at the global island chokepoints away from centres of power where the ultimate strategy will be to clear the way for larger landings to take strategic bases.
The biggest challenge for any leader will be in the timing and coordination on land to secure intelligence.
Disclaimer- I'm not a Navy gay, so any Navioids feel free to call me a moron if I'm off
>Captain announces battle stations >You go to your place below decks and push buttons when needed for 1~6 hours, likely announcing to your superiors what the buttons you press are indicating >Eventually either the Captain declares over the intercom "we did it reddit we won the battle :DDD" or there's a brain crushingly loud explosion from an anti -ship missile getting past the defenses and now you need to get the frick out of the sinking ship before the fire reaches the magazine or drags you down with it, (I was told by a vatnik shill when their last boat blew up that damage control is a meme in modern warfare so it must be true)
>Eventually
there are periodic ship-wide updates, like at least every 30 minutes (maybe more these days?) because everybody knows it's good for morale >there's a brain crushingly loud explosion
and spalling, and shit flying everywhere, and you getting thrown off your feet / chairs
but you'll also have had announcements of INCOMING at least a few minutes before, plus the sound and shudder of missiles launching, so you'd know you're in the enemy crosshairs >damage control is a meme in modern warfare
certainly not
>Eventually
there are periodic ship-wide updates, like at least every 30 minutes (maybe more these days?) because everybody knows it's good for morale >there's a brain crushingly loud explosion
and spalling, and shit flying everywhere, and you getting thrown off your feet / chairs
but you'll also have had announcements of INCOMING at least a few minutes before, plus the sound and shudder of missiles launching, so you'd know you're in the enemy crosshairs >damage control is a meme in modern warfare
certainly not
Don't know why the Russians of all people would call damage control a meme when periodic damage control is the only thing keeping their ships afloat.
Unmanned underwater vehicles coasting around or waiting on the bottom deploying mines in a predetermined area or in the path of a battle group.
Even if the enemy detects a UUV loitering around an area, they probably wouldn't be able to tell if mines were dropped off thus making every area it's stayed at a potential mine field.
Basically what has been happening with the Houthis but on a larger scale.
The whole fiasco has been hilariously beneficial for the US Navy on the long term when you think about it.
Well…the U.S. isn’t completely off the world police beat. The U.S. will appear to defend a major sea lane from random attacks — but only with great reluctance and the utmost desire to not be there at all. The admin puts out the message "we will NOT hesitate to defend lives…!" That’s some weak cuck shit and the world has been taking note. The US could easily just kick over the Houthi state with virtually no risk. But current admins just don’t want to, because it’s expensive. WHO knows maybe the U.S. is exiting the world stage for a reason, ie, the money managers are warning that they can’t maintain a money-printing system in the future for whatever reason so now everything they do is concerned with cost. Just a random guess. But it’s undeniable that the U.S. isn’t the world cop it used to be — not retired yet, but fat and lazy and not willing to walk the beat anymore if it can at all get away with it. Brown regime shitholes don’t give the slightest frick if they burn through huge portions of their own peasant populations, so threatening to defend yourself from them is laughably ineffective.
The Houthis have intermixed themself with the Iranians, who leadership aside are pro-West, so just laying waste to the region isn't good optics, but there isn't an appetite to coup Iran's current leader and return to the sandbox for more nation building, even though this is one of those opportunities where it would be the appropriate response unlike the shitshow in Afghanistan.
Midway with a frickton of missiles
Macross on crack.
you'd never visually see your enemy, similar to most modern forms of warfare, it's not intended to be fair. if your technology isn't up to par, and even if it is, there's a chance that one moment you exist, and the next moment you on the floor, bleeding out, before you mind realizes what's happened, you've bled out.
if you're lucky you get knocked unconscious and die before reawaking.
Drone and missile spam. Whoever can defend against it wins. Expect a lot of AI augmented air and underwater defesnes.
like what you'd imagine a submarine battle to be, everyone groping around in blindness, using passive sensors most of the time, suddenly firing missiles a frickload of missiles, instant mass death, and then start over
>no boarding action fighting
>no colliding into other vessels
>no flying out of cannons
> gays sit in control rooms all day until they get sunk by torpedoes
No point, it's over for the sailor.
imagine catobar launched boarding parties
1000s of ASM crossing in mid-air, all ships on both side rekt 1 hour after first launch.
In the aftermath it will be said that SYSTEMS were possibly capable if allowed to do their thing in fully automated mode, but it was human commanders that forced themselves into the response chain and quickly got overloaded. There was a moment of confusion as it if they were talking about the same bogey, or if it was additional (it was, like dozens) and it all went to shit and panic.
It wouldn’t be like ww2 because there’d be no strategic uncertainty — both sides would know, generally, where everyone else was at any given time. That includes submarines. Acoustic signaling tech is probably so good now they could track individual whales across an ocean. Maybe they’re still more stealthy than surface ships but all those hydrophone stations running through modern CPUs and tech probably means no one is going to sneak up on anyone else’s fleet; if a sub gets close the fleet will be aware and go hunting for it. What will happen is a surface action group / fleet will come into missile range and start spamming missiles; whichever side has more missiles than the other side can intercept is the one that ones. Hypersonics (real ones) change up that calculus if Chinese / Russian-based AD can’t intercept them. In fact it might be Chinese combat systems are too inferior vs Western ones and end up being much less effective in actual combat — but in theory it should come down to a strictly numbers game. Western ships are much more resistant to damage, but any ship hit by a giant anti-shipping missile warhead is going to be a mission-kill even if it can technically survive.
Carriers are useless in a fleet engagement outside of stealth and even then the firepower F-35s bring to a naval battle would be insignificant. Carriers would be useful in anti-sub ops, doing logistics, recon, etc but not a major factor in a surface engagement.
Carriers and their aircraft are the main deterrence against subs who could otherwise hunt their surface escorts with impunity. Modern submarines are vastly more powerful than modern destroyers but have negligible ability to fend off even helicopters.
When will we first see an asw helicopter get downed by a submarine-fired sam?
If a sub is getting actively pinged by a buoy, it wouldn't really lose any stealth by attempting to down the helicopter.
And i know subsams probably don't exist, but they could in theory.
>subsams probably don't exist
actually they do, but they need to get get lots better
during the Cold War both NATO and Soviets trialled MANPADs mounted on periscopes
the Germans are working on the IDAS system (picrel) which is an IRIS optically and infrared-guided missile fired from a torpedo tube
the problem with these systems is that they are far too short-ranged for the sub commander to be happy to use them; an ASW helicopter could well have detected them and launched a torpedo by the time they in turn launch a missile
also, there is the question of how the submarine manages to find the helicopter without being detected itself in the first place
until we can get a submarine-launched drone with an air-search radar - and that is some way away - this kind of weapon won't be as useful as simply hiding
>until we can get a submarine-launched drone with an air-search radar
idgi
never played Ace Combat
Dude was the commander of a SSBN-Carrier hybrid with a nuke launching railgun mounted in there for good measure
ah I see
sounds badass
>SLBMs
>Also a nuke launching railgun
Why?
Strategic vs tactical.
Why waste shekels on beeg canon, when nuclear fricking railgun exists and makes everyone else give up automatically?
It's called psychological warfare anon. Just a really brute force version of it.
test of Blowpipe on a British submarine
once again, hiding was probably the better option so they never actually operated it
>in theory it should come down to a strictly numbers game
Then west wind handily too. Chinks have got absolutely nothing on JASSM/LRASM which are launched by carrier aircraft. I doubt entire chinese missile forces can match the firepower of a single CSG at ranges further than SRBMs can reach.
Your ideas about detectability of subs and the utility of carriers are stupid.
Why can’t these things be intercepted just like everything else? If a Chinese surface group has thousands of interceptors how many sorties will a carrier need to launch to punch through that?
>Why can’t these things be intercepted just like everything else?
Because these missiles are that much better than anything else, hypersanics included it's not even comparable.
> If a Chinese surface group has thousands of interceptors
they don't, and chinese interceptors are utter shit based on russian tech.
Then the discussion is pointless because it will always devolve to “China is garbage so they lose lol”. Even if that’s true that CAN’T be the basis for a discussion.
It's pointless if you want to keep it in the real world rather than a fantasy one.
It's sort of like rock+paper+scissors. Carriers are great against battleships, battlecruisers, and cruisers. Submarines are great against carriers. Destroyers are great against submarines. And cruisers and such are great against destroyers. Battleships are great against cruisers and destroyers.
What makes people think any of those fricking censors would survive an actual war? Hurt dur muh satellites. As soon as anyone figured out a satellite was used for military purposes it would be shot down. And all these buoys would be destroyed as well.
Submarines and carrier-launched aircraft instigating Total Destroyer Death before it becomes a quick draw on who can hit who first with a torpedo.
so my idea we should have fake fleet that the enemy spams missiles at then our fleet of submarine f35 carriers surfaces behind them and pulls their pants down. fund it
We do that with electronic warfare, way cheaper.
One side invest into a Battleship and mogs the opposing side. At least I choose to imagine it so.
Memes aside, a battleship that was capable of fending off YJ-21 and YJ-18 missiles would force China to not only develop a more powerful warhead but refit its entire fleet just to be able to use it, forcing them to spend more than the cost of the battleship to counter it in a Fleet in Being moment.
Explosives defeat armor more cheaply than the armor costs.
China wouldn’t need to reoutfit their entire fleet because they don’t rely on their ships for defense. They just shit out a bunch of bigger land based missiles. Maybe build a few fast missile boats to further the range.
Shit, just containerize them and drop them in the ocean from transports hundreds of miles in front of the battleship. You now have weapons emplacements that are nearly impossible to track or engage.
A semisubmersible container would be a ridiculously good area denial platform.
If you’re not trying to project power halfway around the globe but are just protecting your shores, why spend a billion dollars on a sub or destroyer as a platform for a few dozen missiles when you could have several hundred for the same price?
Why was the inferior frog Charles Du Goal carrier at the front when they took that pic and not the HMS Ocean?
Frogs trying to stay relevant is so disgraceful.
>carrierlet
>now replaced with two FRICKING RAMP that can't even take to sea
>nuclear deterrence is busted
>no cruise missiles on surface combattants
>loses a minehunter to a parking accident
A genoux devant le TAVREAV français, Angloïde
>organic
hey frogget, we don't laugh at you when you burn down your SSBN or when M51 misfires or when PA2 is cancelled, so you shut the frick up and play nice
>SSBN
Perle is a SSN not a SSBN, it's on its way out for the Suffren class, and despite the fire we've managed to restore it to near-pristine condition and put it back in the fleet. Could you do that?
>M51 misfire
Fair criticism, but when our ICBM fails, it does take off and it happens only once. And at least it's OUR ICBM not American hands-me-down
>PA2
Partly cancelled because of Sarkozy's homosexualry, but also because you refused a shared design. We'd both have a CVN each and work as allies, but instead you decided to suck the US' balls and now you're stuck with A FRICKING RAMP while we're developing a Nimitz-sized CVN.
>p-p-play nice pls :'(
Payback for decades of WW2 jokes, Rosbiff. Publicly admit that you couldn't have evacuated Dunkirk without the French sacrifice and that you only resisted the Krauts by the skin of your teeth because you were an island, and maybe we'll stop humiliating you.
>Perle is a SSN not a SSBN
my mistake
>Could you do that?
can if we have to, don't have to if we don't frick up
>you refused a shared design
bullshit; you got the full CV specs AS AGREED. if YOU decided to go nuclear that's YOUR fricking problem.
>now you're stuck with A FRICKING RAMP while we're developing a Nimitz-sized CVN
good for you
unlike you, I can be happy for allies, and I sincerely hope the French can deploy two carriers, nuclear or not
but in the meantime you're stuck with A PART-TIME CARRIER CAPABILITY
>Payback
nonsense
you're just an ornery frickwit who disgraces the name of France
>you only resisted the Krauts by the skin of your teeth because you were an island
we could have resisted them on the mainland together but you refused
and then you spent your time betraying yourselves and massacring yourselves
the fricking SPANISH of all people did a better job at guerilla warfare against Napoleon than you did against Hitler
and the overseas pieds noirs were no better; despite also being separated by the sea, they took every EXCUSE they could to not fight for the homeland, despite being given every chance
>and maybe we'll stop humiliating you.
your seethe is entirely one-sided. nobody brings this shit up unless you start the ball rolling. everybody would respect the great French accomplishments in defence in the 21st century, if you weren't such a homosexual about it.
so learn to shut up and be humble for just once in your life, and maybe you will earn some real respect that way.
or don't - it's your life.
>can if we have to, don't have to if we don't frick up
So about that minehunter...
>you decided to go nuclear
What good is a non-nuke carrier? Same shit with the Aussies, you Anglos are all the same disingenuous slimy homosexuals
>we could have resisted them on the mainland together but you refused
On that, you have a point. Our politicians and generals were moronic but and negated any advantage we had wat before the war. There were also external factors such as the Belgians being homosexuals who refused to allow the Maginot line on their frontier.
>Resistance
Again, you're mostly correct on that one.The Resistance only had a serious strategic effect when it was organized to support the Allied landings, and it was nearly taken over by the Commies in the later part, if it wasn't for De Gaulle.
>overseas didn't want to fight
On that however, frick you. We had fricking Tahitians and Caribean volunteers fighting Germans and Italians in the Sahara. Our greatest fighter ace Pierre Closterman volunteered from a cushy life in Brazil where his dad was a diplomat.
>muh respect
Let's go back to
>"hehe foocking frogs showin off, disgraceful innit, lads? UK numbah one tally-ho!"
>gets reality checked about the state of the Royal Navy
>*switches to Queen's English* "We would never say that to you, we're allies by Jove!" *sobs* "You're a disgrace to the good name of France"
Suce ma bite
>about that minehunter
mistakes happen, and it'll buff out
>What good is a non-nuke carrier?
you know very well what good it is, so YOU stop being disingenuous
and once again, it's not our fault that France bought a conventional design, then changed its mind, then found itself unable to continue
>On that however,
most of Africa went Vichy and had to be defeated again before reluctantly helping the Allies
>Let's go back to
it's obvious fricking bait, moron, and you swallowed it hook, line and sinker
QUIT
SWALLOWING
BAIT
>f it wasn't for De Gaulle
they've managed to find a single man in the whole world more obnoxious than a french communist
The French are much more relevant than GB militarily speaking in the current day and age. Stronger and more independent production, larger numbers of everything, and more overseas bases more evenly spread that would enable them to operate almost anywhere on earth.
You don't want these morons on the front, better have them where they can't do much damage
If only da prince o' whales had been there to stop it...
Sadly she was kept in port by strong winds.
Soulless missile spam and evasive maneuvers
Suddenly new ships will get outfitted with multiple anti-air guns like in WW2 to combat missile spam, drones and aircraft
Amassed quickstrike naval mines and LRASM from long range bombers. No need to risk surface combatants in any sort of head to head.
>carrier launches planes outside enemy missile range
>planes rain down hellfire
>planes return home
>repeat until no enemies remain
>What would a modern naval battle look like?
Statistically like this
submarines would sink every ship
Subs are going to turn out to be useless. This isn’t ww2 nor is it the Cold War. This stuff is classified of course but it’s probably a situation in which, today, it’s impossible to hide underwater. There’s big networks of hydrophones sitting in deep-sea locations everywhere, modern towed-arrays are gigantic and far more performant than in the 80s and equipped on everything, tech like low-frequency active sonar, beam-forming, etc and signal processing with the latest CPUs and software. No one is getting anywhere near someone else under or above water without them being seen/heard a long way away. The USN probably monitors the movement of PLAN subs from literally across the Pacific. A sub that’s seen is a dead sub.
In 2008 subs could still sneak up to CSGs. Yeah, that was 16 years ago, but subs have also improved (AIP / Sterling engines).
America winning.
In not too long there will be fleets of autonomous MAD-equipped sailing drones which will be integrated in a data-link to track every single submarine on the planet which isn't in port.
Subs can get as quiet as they like, but they can't hide the fact that they're not made of seawater.
MAD doesn't work if there's 600 feet of water between it and the sub. Silence is still king.
Thankfully chink subs aren't quiet at all and russians can't maintain theirs to retain their noise level.
Finding the subs is one thing, but engaging them is a horse of a different color in the high seas where most aircraft are going to be slaved to carrier groups. Incidentally, Japan's strategy of making 'I can't believe it's not a carrier" helicopter destroyers would end up being an important asset in chasing down wolfpacks separate from the big fleets.
Naval warfare is kinda trash for the past 50 years. It all boils down to magazine depth for defender and attacker. The age of maneuver is long gone
bvr missile spam
A2A combat consists of bvr missile spam
land forces routinely engage in bvr artillery spam (guns are cheaper than missiles)
it's not fun or kino, but it's eminently survivable.
Except for legs, but those are the cheapest units a military has. Modern (peer-ish) war is really a battle of accounting.
All over the horizon stuff, using shit loads of missiles. C-WIZ on constant blast, plus RIM-116 firing off like mad. The goal is to overwhelm the defenses at a particular point and have an anti-ship missile slip through.
You'd probably see a return of lighter boats in a big way that will use a mixture of their speed and agility to harass and deliver crippling blows to slower escorts before going after merchantmen and logistics. This is especially important at the global island chokepoints away from centres of power where the ultimate strategy will be to clear the way for larger landings to take strategic bases.
The biggest challenge for any leader will be in the timing and coordination on land to secure intelligence.
Disclaimer- I'm not a Navy gay, so any Navioids feel free to call me a moron if I'm off
>Captain announces battle stations
>You go to your place below decks and push buttons when needed for 1~6 hours, likely announcing to your superiors what the buttons you press are indicating
>Eventually either the Captain declares over the intercom "we did it reddit we won the battle :DDD" or there's a brain crushingly loud explosion from an anti -ship missile getting past the defenses and now you need to get the frick out of the sinking ship before the fire reaches the magazine or drags you down with it, (I was told by a vatnik shill when their last boat blew up that damage control is a meme in modern warfare so it must be true)
>Eventually
there are periodic ship-wide updates, like at least every 30 minutes (maybe more these days?) because everybody knows it's good for morale
>there's a brain crushingly loud explosion
and spalling, and shit flying everywhere, and you getting thrown off your feet / chairs
but you'll also have had announcements of INCOMING at least a few minutes before, plus the sound and shudder of missiles launching, so you'd know you're in the enemy crosshairs
>damage control is a meme in modern warfare
certainly not
Don't know why the Russians of all people would call damage control a meme when periodic damage control is the only thing keeping their ships afloat.
Unmanned underwater vehicles coasting around or waiting on the bottom deploying mines in a predetermined area or in the path of a battle group.
Even if the enemy detects a UUV loitering around an area, they probably wouldn't be able to tell if mines were dropped off thus making every area it's stayed at a potential mine field.
More or less like this, but the boats would be much further apart, and a little less blocky.
>BEEP
>Launches
>BEEP
>Return-launches
>BEEP
>Counter-launches
>BEEP
>Counter-return-launches
>Booms
>Booms
>BEEP
>More launches
>BEEP
>More return-launches
>BEEP
>More counter-launches....
Repeat ad nauseam.
Lots of rockets.
>*Virginia teleports behind your fleet*
>Heh, no personnel, chang
an exchange of long range missiles and most of them being shot down by ciws
The ships never see each other; instead they blast each other to pieces with missiles and carrier aircraft
Basically what has been happening with the Houthis but on a larger scale.
The whole fiasco has been hilariously beneficial for the US Navy on the long term when you think about it.
it is right now bruh.
>The whole fiasco has been hilariously beneficial for the US Navy
>USN vs aliexpress
>loose
This is the first time a navy has to deal with anti-ship ballistic missiles and aerial drone swarms. It gives them a head start.
Well…the U.S. isn’t completely off the world police beat. The U.S. will appear to defend a major sea lane from random attacks — but only with great reluctance and the utmost desire to not be there at all. The admin puts out the message "we will NOT hesitate to defend lives…!" That’s some weak cuck shit and the world has been taking note. The US could easily just kick over the Houthi state with virtually no risk. But current admins just don’t want to, because it’s expensive. WHO knows maybe the U.S. is exiting the world stage for a reason, ie, the money managers are warning that they can’t maintain a money-printing system in the future for whatever reason so now everything they do is concerned with cost. Just a random guess. But it’s undeniable that the U.S. isn’t the world cop it used to be — not retired yet, but fat and lazy and not willing to walk the beat anymore if it can at all get away with it. Brown regime shitholes don’t give the slightest frick if they burn through huge portions of their own peasant populations, so threatening to defend yourself from them is laughably ineffective.
The Houthis have intermixed themself with the Iranians, who leadership aside are pro-West, so just laying waste to the region isn't good optics, but there isn't an appetite to coup Iran's current leader and return to the sandbox for more nation building, even though this is one of those opportunities where it would be the appropriate response unlike the shitshow in Afghanistan.