I might have to have a chance to buy a truck like this, but it’s probably in pretty bad shape. I didn’t check the frame, but there is rust on the body, and the transmission is probably shot.
I just want a truck like this and was thinking about just replacing/rebuilding everything so that I have a reliable vehicle because as of now, I assume everything is sus.
Redpill me on rebuilds please
Whatever your budget it, multiply it by 4-8x.
Why is that? Don’t I get a quote from the mechanic to do x for y and then I pay him y for x work?
It's never worth it unless you get the truck for free and can do a full engine swap in your garage by yourself
By the time you pay a mechanic, you could have bought a 2012 halfton with double to triple the towing and hauling capabilities from 98 to 2000, the 3/4ton trucks could do what the tonners coukd do plus some and the half tons could outdo the only 3/4
If you actually need a truck, buy one that's not burning too much oil and shifts okay
this
>he thinks mechanics won't drag out the job
it seems there are quite a few summer leftovers hanging out here
>he thinks it will bankrupt the guy cuz of someone dragging their feet, not the legitimately complicated and monumental task of bringing something completely back from the dead single handedly, addressing every rabbit hole in a myriad of systems assembled by hundreds of people 40 years ago.
>not the legitimately complicated and monumental task of bringing something completely back from the dead single handedly....
It isn't that hard. The systems in a car/truck are all reasonably simple, designed for mass manufacture by not-top-shelf engineers and assembled by normal people. I realize that there are people out there to whom cutting a 2x4 or soldering a wire would seem like a dark art, but PrepHole types are not that.
An average mechanic with a high school then tech school education should be able to open the hood of a car and understand at least functionally every single sensor, wire, mechanical gizmo under there. Why can't you? Once you have that knowledge, fixing or rebuilding it is only collecting the tools and the skills to use them.
>> 40 years ago.
Those cars and trucks are super simple.
>collecting the tools and skills to use them
Needs possible frame welding, transmission, and everything else.
>any high schooler should basikully have it if they try
Right. Tell me you dont know PrepHole exists without telling me PrepHole exists. Now roll on over to /ccg/.
> 40 years ago
>Those cars and trucks are super simple.
ha. a 39 year old ford f150 (like mine 1984) had a fricked up carb with an electronically controlled idle, the worst electronic ignition ever, a computer that made a VIC-20 look advanced, and a maze of vacuum tubes that was insane. Once I removed all that crap it was super simple.
My datapoint is an '85 c10 suburban. Smogger motor, but simple enough.
I don't normally read PrepHole. In /ccg/ there is a car (?pinto?) sectioned before the rear seat. I will allow that is a project on the more advanced side of things.
I guess my objection is mostly the defeatist attitude ?wtf buy new in PrepHole? in the post I responded to.
Let me put it like this. You think it should be simple. Those who do this are saying its far more complicated than you think.
You are then coming to the conclusion they dont understand, because they think its complicated.
Could it be theres a gap in your understanding thats more likely?
Things rust together. They degrade. Fixing something that was simple when it was new is not always simple. You gotta care a lot more
it actually is simple, it's just not easy. everything is pretty straightforward, it's just hard to do it all (and continue to do it all, and pay for it all)
>thinking about just replacing/rebuilding everything so that I have a reliable vehicle because as of now, I assume everything is sus.
What said.
So now it's time to really think about what you are doing.
You are going to throw thousands into an endless moneypit that could have been spent buying a decent truck in the first place.
>plot twist: it will still be a rusty hunk of shit, but now with *new* parts
This
Also know how to rewire everything. No use rebuilding our engine and transmission, doing body work, upholstery to only be plagued by electrical gremlins from your 40+ year old wiring harness
I have an OBS ford. its a southern truck, so rust isn't too bad. If you want to rebuild one, you need to be absolutely sure that you are starting with a solid foundation, so check the frame. There is no way that you will be able to afford to have a mechanic do all or even most of the work for you. Find a forum for that truck to answer specific questions. The good news about those trucks, is a mess of them got made and the weak points are well understood and parts largely available.
>There is no way that you will be able to afford to have a mechanic do all or even most of the work for you.
Why’s that?
Because every single system of the truck is going to be wearing out by this point. What is a mechanic going to charge? 60-100/hr at least? It would make sense to buy a newer truck that needs less if you have to pay for labor. Its why people do what they do and why old cars are cheap - the market itself is telling you this.
I like my old ford. Go ahead and buy it. Expect to continually have to repair it (which will be easy because it is simple). Everything from heater cores corroding though to connectors burning up to switches breaking, lights burning out, door hinges wearing, windshield cracking, crank no start, bad batteries, alternator, belts, etc. All that is on top of oil leaks from worn seals, and major systems wearing out, like engine, transmission, driveshaft universal joints, and the rear end. Also brakes.
If you want a frame up rebuild, I think those run > $100k to have an outside shop do it - it would be the same to build up a hotrod. It might make sense to do this for a rare or desirable car. These fords are great trucks, but they were made in large quantity, and new trucks far surpass its capabilities in towing, power, and comfort. In short it will never be 'valuable' . People that know what they are looking at will appreciate it though.
I'm not really a car guy, but I don't think my analysis is wrong.
Assumption is the mother of all frickups. Lose that habit and replace with knowledge.
= based
Depends on very much on specific vehicle. I could daily a 1980s BMW airhead until the sun burns out. I've over 100K miles on my 1988 FXR I bought new (I have many other bikes hence the low miles) with no major issues except a (early part, new ones last far longer) final drive belt failure and an alternator (expected as they are on cars) replacement. Still daily a 1992 FXLR while the '88 gets hotrodded.
I'd daily any of my trucks as that's what they're for including my '76 F100/250/350 built from multiple donors wrecker. Plenty of those later Fords get daily'ed still I'm in the Carolinas so no rust) which is much easier on them than setting.
Not hard for Ford and Chevy trucks. I've worked on the style in question since new.
They're great vehicles to learn to wrench in because everything is known. Because everything is known, apply proven fixes and ignore speculation and non-mechanics (hence my suggestion of the FTE forums for every Ford truck owner). Once familiar they're very easy to work on and all the wear parts are cheap. The aftermarket is strong (I always favor vehicles with long term support due to enormous user bases).
>NEVER EVER CHEAP OUT
^This^^^
A good body is what makes a truck worth saving. Rust ruins vehicles. Minor dents ain't shit and removable parts can be dealt with at leisure but get a truck with little or no rust on cab and frame. Beds are disposable so they can look like a bag of walnuts.
I would buy an otherwise good truck with a fried clutch since manual trannies are easy to sort out. If the body is great I'd buy one with an auto but I'd replace the auto with a C6 which are outstandingly tough and easy to overhaul but rarely need it.
Learning to wrench is worth the minor mistakes along the way because once you're competent nothing is intimidating.
Buy an SD card and take photos of every fricking god damned plug, wire, nut and bolt before you take it off, take great pains to keep track of and store everything in order so you can put it back on in reverse and marvel that you've still managed to lose more than a few pieces.
Lol, kek, lmao, and, might i add, rofl.
Anon you should not do this unless you are literally paying scrap value for the car, and have significant car-related diy skills yourself, or have funds to learn on the job.
>significant car-related diy skills yourself
how/where do i learn?
by rebuilding a project truck lol
Old things require time, caring and the stamina to see a job till the end.
Replacing brakes on a new vehicle is usually simple.
Replacing brakes on that can turn into needing to run entirely new lines, and bleed the entire system. Or it couldnt. Its harder for shops to make money on this kinda thing so they just dont.
If you want it as like a toy, that you dont really ever plan on getting on the road, basically yard art, go for it, and good luck. Id make sure there is a frame and wait to find one that has a working transmission.
It takes caring, reilience, skill and passion to bring a truck back like that. Hard to find someone who can still make money in this world bringing things like that to the table.
what are you hoping to spend, all said and done? The way i see it, if you're looking at a truck like your picture, a half ton truck, but <5 years old, you're looking at $40k or more. 5-10 years old with <100k miles you're looking at 25K+. Older trucks 20+ years old can be had for less than $5k and they may still have valuable, functional components like the frame and drivetrain. If you just want a secondary truck for hauling or going camping or whatever, you could probably turn one of those older trucks into a good vehicle, but like others have mentioned, labor is expensive. Be prepared for original parts to gradually fail all around you. Try to have a plan and find a shop who will do the labor in a logical way, doing what you can, when you can.. not waiting for things to break and repairing them piecemeal. Be prepared for the big expenses though. I think if you go the "old <$5k truck" route, be prepared to spend another $10k for big drivetrain related issues. But i think that's slowly becoming a possibility at all the aforementioned price-points. That said, the used car market is full of unicorn deals, where people just don't want a vehicle, can't justify maintaining it, etc. And if you have a good mechanic(or a network of good shops to do maybe welding/fabricating/body/paint/eng/trans). I had to call around to restoration specific shops to get connected with people to do the specific things needed.
Most shops don't want to do restoration work or touch rust. They're like roofers. They want profitable easy, readily available insurance work. But i think we might see with credit conditions changing, maintaining used cars may be a more sensible option moving forward.
This is so true in the world of motorcycles it hurts.
So many bikes could be running with just a carb clean and battery, but that would just open up the can of worms of leaky fork seals, cracked tires and soft brake lines, and sticky choke and throttle cables.
Much less getting the tach and everyrhing to work, so they just say we dont work on old shit.
Same thing with the truck.
New transmission, clutch will show you the ball joints front to back are frozen. Brakes and brake and fuel lines prolly rotted somewhere. Buncha those had dual tank setups, expect a workibg fuel guage along to cost a grand alone between sending units and labor. Frozen shocks, beat dead leaf springs and a shackle or two with rust spots and a sketchy crossmember.
Expect hvac / radio to need to be re done. Vehicles sit and water rusts the blower motor bearings.
Loose steering boxes, play that results in vague steering, like, always.
Thats to get it to like... drive. I daily a 1991 volvo when its not broken. 85 motorcycle. The reliable daily is an 02
Unless it’s a super desirable car like an Austin Healy or an older Ferrari or some shit probably not worth the effort
not everyone does shit based on resale value you cuck
Prepare to spend a lot of money and/or a lot of time. You need to develop skills in many fields to fix a truck, but on the other hand, despite being bigger than cars, a lot of fixes are easier. For instance, I changed a shot wheel bearing in an alley, took about 20 minutes of labor, plus two hours of walking to get a $30 part at the store. I already had a bearing driver (a tool used to bang on a bearing). In comparison, I had to change a bearing on my van too and I while I was able to cut the bearing off of the hub, I was unable to press it back. I had to bring the hub it to a mechanic and they pretty much charged me the same as if I had brought the van in.
If the transmission is shot I would just walk away, OP. There are other trucks you can buy.
A transmission rebuild kit costs $200 bucks and a weekend of your time. I rebuilt my first transmission in highschool and have done everything from domestic to European to tractors. Its not hard
The trick is to get a functioning transmission from the scrapyard ($400) then put it in. You keep the old troony and take the time to rebuild it. Now you have two options: if you were fast enough, you can swap the rebuilt transmission and bring the other one back to the scrapyard, or you can also rebuild this one and sell it for a little profit on marketplace or Craigslist.
just to make it drivable?
assuming it runs and shifts fine... fuel lines/tank/pump, suspension, steering, brakes, driveline seals/bearings, front u joints, tires, whatever equipment needed to pass inspection/not get harassed by road bandits
i know someone who dailys a 5.0 F150, but he's a machine shop do-it-all kind of guy, almost owns every relevant tool or can get access to a lathe, mill, press, etc.
Yeah the other anons above are correct. If you don't have the means to diy your own major (and minor) mechanic work then you really have no business owning an older vehicle like that. It will nickel and dime you to death paying someone else to fix it up for you.
I have an entire fleet of ford pickups and a lot of parts vehicles sitting around. They are good vehicles but i would be broke if I hired anyone else to do my mechanicing for me.
If you aren't doing all the work yourself, you are better off just saving your money to buy something new off the lot.
If the engine isn't carbureted, don't bother. If the frame is rusted out. Don't bother. The less electronics in it, the better.
I got a 96f150 for 500$. I put 1300 into tires and then 2 weeks later needed to replace the starter. great truck but hard on fuel
>I got a 96f150 for 500$. I put 1300 into tires and then 2 weeks later needed to replace the starter. great truck but hard on fuel
They're all hard on fuel anon. But the way I look at it is I can spend $500-5000 on an old beater and get 12mpg or $20,000 on a newer used pickup and get 17mpg. That $15,000 difference in price buys a hell of a lot of fuel.
absolutely yep. plus its fun to keep an old one running
Pro tip: do not do it. Old cars are getting increasingly hard to maintain because of lack of parts and low quality replacement parts. You will end up going to junkyards. Not worth it
So pic related is a fuel sending unit from a car I'm working on. It sits in the gas tank and pumps fuel to the engine. If you need to get in there, to re use this whole thing you need to not twist those rusty parts on the top off, but get the fuel lines off. New vehicles this is all shiny and new and uncorroded, like the half of this that was in the tank.
You gotta go slooooow and be gentle. It takes far more strength to do just enough than too much.
Thats a far more skilled thing to do than playing with it when it was shiny and new. Every penalty for failure results in needing to replace more things. Hence shops usually dont work on old things.
That whole truck could look like the rusty parts on the top of this.
It can be done, but those that know how, rarely have stamina left for other people's projects.
Youd probably think the mechanic was trying to make money or being a brute it they told you the fuel lines broke. Its just more complicated than that
I will repeat what others have stated below. Spend your time to fine a solid rust free example EVEN if that means you have to travel to do it.. With your little experience (assumed) rust can really frick you quick. There are still solid examples that can be had for a decent price then all you're doing is rebuilding the drive train and suspension. It's a great way to go, you'll learn alot and then have the ability to fix your mistakes and work on your vehicle.
5 digits.
hello anon, I have a lot of expierience with these trucks I have been working on the since they were new, and I also do a lot of frame up restorations of older vehicles, here are some points to cover-
1-what type of truck is it? trucks with manual transmissions are far more reliable and have a decent chance of being god enough to use, but automatics of this era are made of paper mache, unless you really need one don't buy a 4x4 its just more stuff to break and get in the way.
2-as for motors diesel engines will be more likely to run and drive straight out of the box, especially the international 6.7 and 7.3 idi and powerstrokes, BUT if they don't they are massively more difficult and expensive to rebuild, gas motors of these era trucks are fairly nice motors, pretty easy to rebulid, but they aren't something to write home about as far as power goes.
3-cost entirely depends on how well equipped you are, a good example is a full brake job, lines, pads, rotors, etc. if you have someone do it for you expect something in the 1,000-3,500 range, on the other hand if you can bend and flare lines, turn drums and rotors, rebuild calipers by yourself you can be looking at about 300 for the materials from rockauto, massive difference
4-condition is all- NEVER EVER CHEAP OUT from all of my 30 years of being a mechanic i cannot tell people enough that it is better to pay more for a good base than to buy a really cheap junker, it may sound good but you will put exponentially more money into a shitbox than you would have saved from cheaping out
4-look at general signs of wear, if you live on the west coast or any low rust area, rusted out body panels are a very bad sign, it most likely means the previous owners did not take care of it, but if you live somewhere like the midwest its less of a sign, i can't really describe what to look out for but watch for excessive rust, locked motors, empty radiators, trashed interiors, janBlack folk say my post is too long now so bye
The frame will rust near the bumper first.. The cab corners rust and the back of the cab drops. The twin I-beam sucks. The bed rusts around the wheel lip where the inner creates a pocket
If you have to ask, you probably shouldn't.
if you have to ask this question, then you're not ready. i learned to work on cars by buying a 93 geo tracker for 500$ and that was very useful. but i would never start with frame rust or a shot troony. much too hard for someone green
if you want a working, solid, older ford truck with little to no rust, look into buying one from an area where rust isn't too bad and drive it home from there. you will be out a considerable amount to have mechanics do it ALL for you. it takes a lot of work to keep old cars running well (i have 3 early 90s with 300k on them) and if you dont have the know-how yet, you're bound to spend long nights in your driveway cursing your purchase or your bank account will be crying all the way to the shop. or both.
to clean rust and change oil
It will ALWAYS be a money pit.
I've done several bitsa trucks for self and the dealer I worked for.
Buy a truck with clean straight sheet metal if you want one to have that. NO rust. I prefer a truck with a good body and no engine to a rustball.
The Ford Truck Enthusiast forums are gold for any year truck. Go there and read.
No unless you're stupid. I saved gobs of money doing my own and once sorted they're a fine daily like all mine over the decades have been.
The 300 inline six is a far better engine than the V8s it outlived with plenty of torque and pretty much immortal.
>The 300 inline six is a far better engine than the V8s it outlived with plenty of torque and pretty much immortal.
So far mines a net positive since I plowed with it for a few years. 300 dollar truck, maybe 8k made. Course now it's a project truck I Don plow with anymore because rust so who knows how long that'll last. I Don daily mine though. Also it's a bronco but basically the same. Technically though it's recently been the more reliable one of my vehicles. Civic left me sit the other week so the bronco was my daily for a while.
Join Facebook groups, forums, and take it to lots of cars meets. You'll meet lots of people that'll be more than happy to help you out and sell you the parts you'll need.
Here's a good baseline:
Backstory: 98th percentile automotive guy with schooling who went into a different line of work but still work on my own stuff. I dig Ranger-based vehicles, particularly 1st and 2nd generation Explorers, which share some commonality with what you are considering.
In 2020 I bought a 96 Explorer XLT for my wife to drive. Ex-grandma truck, minor not-visible rust, 6-cyl/auto/4x4, 105k mi. $1600. I bought this with full expectation of restoration.
At this point I am in $3900 for a transmission, and $600 for a fuel pump; neither of these things I did myself due to work being busy. Anything else I did myself, and the list is too long to post here, but the parts to do so came to about $5500. In return I have a really nice old Explorer that I can get in and, despite its age, can drive 1500 miles to Florida or wherever, and I don't think twice about it.
I often get comments from people, and other feedback, always positive. Realtors call it "pride of ownership", and it is evident in its condition.
Be prepared, tho. It's a lot easier with the plethora of online info available nowadays, but it can be a slog at times. I think it's worth it tho.
I'm looking into doing something like this with a panther platform car. Mid 2000s, so it'll need work. Anything odd that was a pita that your mechanic noticed?
Too low to the ground, poor choice. Frame will be soft a foot or so in front of the rear wheels if it ever sat with a flat tire unless you're in a desert.
My mechanic? I don't use one unless I am overextended, which is rare. As my post indicates, I do 99% of my own work.
As to your question, rust is the enemy, both body rust and rusty fasteners. Also deterioration of plastic or rubber parts.
Panther is a good platform with lots of flexibility
>Also deterioration of plastic or rubber parts.
This is simply an age thing right? You'd start having issues with that on a ~15 year old car?
Age and environment. I think 15 years is around right, but there's a lot that goes into that equation...a garage kept car could double that number.
I replaced the radiator and heater hoses on the truck I mentioned, out of an abundance of caution...my old lady drives it and failure is not an option...and the hoses I took off look like they could go for another 10 years. The truck is 26 years old but was garaged for most of it's life, so there's that.
Try to find an old people car that was garaged and half the battle is won
kek OP i was you until I spent so much on tools that I just started doing it professionally
>but it’s probably in pretty bad shape
If you already have something to drive and it's just gonna be to learn on, then go for it, but bear in mind what everyone ITT is saying. The worse the foundation is, the more you're gonna spend. I'm keeping and slowly rebuilding my OBS Chevy because it's barely got any rust on the body and none on the frame at all, coupled with the fact there's a frick ton of aftermarket for it (hooray GM parts bin). That said, it's got 280k on the odo with a mystery meat junkyard 350 that burns oil slowly and an OG 4l60e. The brake booster also just went out so I've been rawdogging the brake pedal with no assist until I find time to replace the booster. The interior is typical 90s GM plastic and so it's worn and plastic things break and get brittle. The heat doesn't work either, which is the biggest b***h since it's the fricking blend door and they buried that under the dash.
So yeah, YMMV. Also OBS gang wya?
Good trucks but last one I worked on was the shop wrecker. Mine are older and newer ATM.
280K isn't bad and you have vast engine and gearbox choice to prepare for when those poot. I'd give it a home.
first don't make assumptions like the transmission is probably shot. you have no fricking clue, shut your mouth. you're not going to rebuild shit, if you're going to buy it then take it to a mechanic and pay the money to have it checked for real. battery, shocks, lights, fluids are things you can actually handle. anything else and you're going to be so fricked you won't learn a damn thing, plus you won't have to tools. also if it's 2wd give it a hard pass.
If OP doesn't need 4WD it's a gas wasting pointless accessory outside areas with meaningful winter unless a specific goal for that vehicle is off-road (or especially bad dirt road) use.
I've towed and hauled many tons of heavy shit/vehicles/parts/steel/machinery over four-plus decades and don't need 4WD such that I pulled the front axles on my Silverado (keeping the stub axles to hold the wheel bearings together) in 2016 to enjoy improved gas mileage. My bro did the same on his eight-lug 6.0 Suburban and doesn't miss 4x4 either. We take that to auctions to snag sometimes excessive loads of steel.
Though I've done a shitload of that quite affordably I do NOT rebuild or molest components which do not REQUIRE work. I do not disrupt what does not benefit from disruption or disturb sound working systems.
^This but body is key. Interior shit's easy to sort if one cares and self-service yards abound in cheap good much newer seats from a variety of vehicles (truck seats tend to be trashed) for easy upgrade.
Learn it once and you have the basics for life which pays off far more than the learning curve costs. I never found any of it "hard" but it can be tedious which is different. Fortunately there are no new problems so it's easy to find people who solved anything you encounter and often before you (or I and I'm ancient) were born. I keep my trucks for decades and when you do the cost per year becomes trivial once you sort them out.
The sooner you get at least one reliable truck you can fix yourself anywhere but rarely need to the sooner you have that tool to support everything else you do.
>>4WD
I disagree with your assessment. If you have to take your truck off the blacktop at any time onto soft ground you have a good chance of getting stuck. The ability to shift into 4wd and get yourself out is valuable - If that happens 3 or 4 times its paid for itself in dollar terms, and pays for itself in headache the 1st time its used in anger.
I say for a truck, odds are it is going off road at some point. Having it also normally increases resale value. In terms of gas fixing gas mileage, use manually locking front hubs. You are still carrying around some extra weight, but that's minor.
I have a 4x4 obs ford, and don't offroad as a thing, but it has pulled me out from being stuck with a heavy load in the back at least a half dozen time.
>The sooner you get at least one reliable truck you can fix yourself anywhere but rarely need to the sooner you have that tool to support everything else you do.
I wish i had realized that at about 12 years old.
hey OP, I've done a few rebuilds over the last few years and now I'm working on a very similar truck (99' Super Duty) and doing a swap into an old RV. If you think it'll be cheaper, it definitely won't be. If you think it'll be the same price but you'll have a more reliable vehicle, you're possibly correct but you'll have to do all the work yourself to meet that pricepoint and you'll need another vehicle in the meantime since the project truck won't be drivable for a while, and won't be reliable for longer. If you decide to do a project like this, the best and most straightforward way is to buy a starting truck that's in good condition (ie. no frame rot, mostly good body panels (although that's less important), decent interior etc) which is being sold with a known major issue. If you find a truck that's cheap but obviously has a lot of problems, you'll spend months of your time and thousands of dollars to bring it back to a good standard of quality. If you buy a truck that's already in decent shape but is being sold with a blown motor, transmission, bad brakes, electrical issues etc. then you're already getting the "shitty truck" discount but with only one, large, issue instead of a thousand, tiny ones.