What makes Western artillery so much better than Russian, aren't Russians supposed to be masters of artillery?
What makes Western artillery so much better than Russian, aren't Russians supposed to be masters of artillery?
What makes Western artillery so much better than Russian, aren't Russians supposed to be masters of artillery?
Yes, what makes it better exactly?
Probably that you're getting it for free
Kek this
I hope your poor shithole gets nuked homosexual.
lol, all that's been sent are loans.
the ukrainians have to pay the money back.
it's probably tens of billions by now.
military aid, humanitarian aid. whatever aid are just euphemisms for loans.
All that stealing has made you a smart man.
In all seriousness, you are right, Ukraine was still made to pay debts when the war started
better range, accuracy, every gun is connected to system that tells them where to shoot and how to calibrate gun to shoot there. They also have specialized rounds like SMART subamunition rounds that can find it's own targets in area where they were shot at
Thats cool but do they work with minimal maintenance in actual battlefield with dirt and shit all around? My personal experience back in the days that all that fancy gps/laser shit is rendered useless in Finnish enviroment but don't know has things improved since
Russia have been jamming gps according to ukroshill israelites like Michael Kofman.
What artillery do Finns use? Looks like Finnish Army is using a mix of Western, domestic and Russian-style equipment (like PKMs)
It's based around lots of domestic and Warsaw Pact pieces. Though we have a handful of yank mlrs and we are equipping the spearhead forces with south korean k9 spgs.
You just willingly divulged sensitive military intelligence to a russian agent.
Your actions pose a risk to NATO effectiveness and you are a clear national security threat. Our officers had already tracked you down and you have been cleared to be shipped off to Guantanamo, where you will be held for further questioning.
rip fin bro
>you are telling info what can be found on wikipedia and FDF's own website
FTFY
Pekka ei! Näistä asioista tehdään vaitiolovelvollisuus sopimuksia. Opsec
Julkista tietoa t. eri
there were already video proofs of PzH SMArt rounds destroying Russian armor so works just fine, 1500 of this rounds provided translate almost 1:1 into 1500 destroyed vehicles and doesn't require area saturation with 100,000 rounds
>do they work with minimal maintenance in actual battlefield with dirt and shit all around?
Currently all provided western artillery works fine, even after months of fighting
>They would run out of ammo and platforms 10 days into a major war.
Platforms still working after more than 10 days in Ukraine.
>Russia simply has endless amounts of the things that matter for artillery to keep functioning
Which require huge amount of ammunition, that require more trucks, which require more fuel and men to supply it. Ammunition that needs to be stored and what last week showed us, HIMARS are very good at destroying ammo depo after ammo depo
>Currently all provided western artillery works fine, even after months of fighting
Half of it has already been destroyed. And it hasn't been there for 'months', so you're full of shit.
>Half of it has already been destroyed
zero destroyed CRABs
zero destroyed CAESARs
zero destroyed PzH
seven-eight destroyed M777(that are actually months fighting)
3 destroyed CRABs
2 captured CAESARs
No clue about PzH
7 Destroyed M777, out of the 12 that were delivered (delivered 19 days ago).
>source: it was revealed to me in a dream
>OR some pro-kremlin pidor TG channels (basically the same as the 1st one)
>you're full of shit
>Half of it has already been destroyed
>no proofs whatsoever
Black person, come on, it's only you who are "full of shit", pidor
>Currently all provided western artillery works fine, even after months of fighting
Even the hohols don't make that claim.
>1500 rounds destroyed 1500 vehicles
>100% accuracy
You have to be an absolute moron to believe this. The Ruskies haven't lost many equipment since their early Kiev zerg rush, there's a reason why hohols videos are all from March.
How much money do you have to print for each round?
>muh ammo costs more than T-72 with three Russians inside
nice cope
>1500 of this rounds provided translate almost 1:1 into 1500 destroyed vehicles
Remember the hot-take about Ukraine having enough anti-tank weaponry to destroy our tank reserves 3 times over? I remember.
Ahhh thats why you started using 50 years old T-62 on the battlefield. BC of your mighty tank reserve. I eager to find out when you start pulling those T-55s from reserve.
Cope in Peace, russian shitlord
Tell that to ukies that are getting killed by those "50 years old T-62" right now. Black person. Ever thought what would happen to Bundeswher after first week of hot conflict, when all Leo2's are gone? Will you build more of them? Or will you use 50 years old Leo's? Cope in peace, while you can, Black person.
bla bla bla. Russia failed in Ukraine, Russia is a fail and with days passing by your marauding 3rd world army isnt growing stronger, whereas Ukies get more and more sophisticated weaponry.
Cope in Piss
Schizo israelite, you will never know reality.
Well they do have, but it's handheld so you can't just zergrush with javelins
The hardware probably works well, but you need to have trained it's efficient use for years to take an advantage from it.
And your military doctrine must allow for network centric warfare. If your radar detects a projectile launch, it should be able to supply target coordinates and fire command to your batteries automatically. If you have to print it out for some boomer officer to sign it first, the enemy battery has already moved.
And this is why its worse. They would run out of ammo and platforms 10 days into a major war. Russia simply has endless amounts of the things that matter for artillery to keep functioning.
Guided rounds make up a tiny small fraction of all stockpiled shells
Not a problem if you can keep it supplied. Which they can, because their logistics are a million times better than Russia's.
>Russia simply has endless amounts of the things that matter for artillery to keep functioning.
Do people actually believe this?
What about their HP and crit stats?
HP over 9000
crit stats 99%
Problem is that is always better to have more slighly worse and basic vehicles than few ultra hi tech vehicles. Another thing is that western military industry is made for maximum profit. It is more about making equipment expensive. Sell to NATO countries and do nothing with it.
Demonstrably false. Small numbers of western tanks absolutely demolished soviet equipment. Just throwing more tanks at the problem doesn't work anymore, because tanks now have near 100% first-shot hit chance at 1500 m, and possibly much further out than that. They also have about 6 second reload for the first 10 rounds or so.
Mind you what's currently kicking Russia's teeth in is just part of our old tech. One can only imagine how hard F-22 and F-35 would demolish the Russian airforce.
>better range, accuracy,
No.
> every gun is connected to system that tells them where to shoot and how to calibrate gun to shoot there. They also have specialized rounds like SMART subamunition rounds that can find it's own targets in area where they were shot at
Russia has own analogues of this.
Sure, most of it is simple stuff. But there's so much of it, overwhelm with numbers. And as it turns out in real war, simple stuff is more reliable and effective.
Crimea-pidor, is it you?
Wow a real live zogbot zoomer in Russia. Are you gay too?
>better range, accuracy,
>No.
actually it has better range and better accuracy. even with basic shells M777 outranges D20 and D30, while PzH, Archer and CAESAR outranges every Russian artillery currently used
>Sure, most of it is simple stuff. But there's so much of it, overwhelm with numbers
Only because west provided token number of artillery not because there is only token number of it
>And as it turns out in real war, simple stuff is more reliable and effective.
All western artillery proves itself above and beyond, despite how little of it is
>better range, accuracy
All bullshit. Western weapons specs are lies, they are usually the highest performance out of multiple trials in this one specific sanitized testing environment, literally out of commercial advertising book. Russian weapons on the other hand have specs from average results of trials in a wide range of environments, mostly in shitty Russian weather on a muddy tundra. That's why western weapons tend to under deliver and Russian ones tend to perform better than specs. It's common knowledge in countries that use both.
Russian gear's certainly overperforming on the scrap metal market, "Hank".
Too bad PzH-2000s couldn't even be sold for scrap because they are obliterated by the Ruskies.
*Jams your gps and renders your equipment useless*
ammunition
fire controll thru integrating gps
"much more range of russian arty"
no longer , google cruise artylery ammo... basicaly makes 155mm outrange any 200mm+ russian arty
Western artillery systems are full of fancy electronics and fire guidance systems that require a lot of maintenance and need tons of supporting infrastructure, but they they probably hit hard and precisely.
Russian artillery is more basic but they simply have a shitton of it, and near unlimited shells from those gigantic soviet arsenals.
so much destruction
what's the point..
Supression
Range-finding
Disabling infrastrucure(in this case, that road is now worthless)
Cry about it, moloch worshipping UN memeflaggot
We love destruction
Not artillery, it's TOS-1 with thremobaric rockets
Yeah, it's called rocket artillery.
Rockets still count as artillery when used in specific warfare. I'm artillery man and we even have smart rocket rounds
Yes, but it doesn't matter how much gear you have if the enemy's has twice the range and can hit you without you hitting them. You're just offering them a bigger target.
>if the enemy's has twice the range
only if theyre using the fancy ammunition which they only have in limited quantities.
You can have unlimited shells, but it's all for naught when you run out of trucks and fuel to carry them to the tubes. Shells are fricking heavy man. Amateurs professionals logistics tactics or something.
>Amateurs professionals logistics tactics or something.
amateurs debate tactics, armchair generals talk strategy. the pros get right down to logistics.
>Russian artillery is more basic but they simply have a shitton of it
a big problem for russia, in any war with the US, would be counter-battery. If you fire any ballistic projectile at the US, they will see it, they have computers to figure out where the shell came from, and they have (and constantly practice with) the communications and procedures to quickly and accurately return fire.
This is practiced constantly in live-fire with the Israelis, and is also a big part of the strategy to defend South Korea. The US is scary good at this.
If you fire an arty round at US troops, you are guaranteed to have a round headed your way before yours even lands. So that means your only survivable option is to shoot once and move, shoot and move, shoot and move. That greatly limits your rate of fire.
...so therefore, it doesn't much matter how many rounds you have.
Plus, you have to retract the spade and get ready for travel, and actually get out, before the counterbattery fire lands. Which is extra tricky if the countrybattery fire is done with missiles. So if your gun is frickhuge and has no splinter protection for the crew... yeah...
It's also tough generally, because the US would counterbattery against dug-in hidden guns. Once the guns are moving, the intelligence assets will know exactly where the guns are moving to.
Exactly, this is why artillery against the US forces is a lost cause, and how the north vietnamese army lost the vietnam war. They simply could never use all that soviet artillery
>Exactly, this is why artillery against the US forces is a lost cause, and how the north vietnamese army lost the vietnam war. They simply could never use all that soviet artillery
US wouldn't do shit. Their most fancy shit would get sunk even before their shit planes could take flight.
AWESOME LETS GOOO
The NVA never did use much arty beyond mortars against the US because when they tried their fancy new imprted guns would get hit by B52s. Euros are always clueless about combat in vietnam.
Stupid Black person
You lost against the north koreans
Then you lost against the vietnamese
Then you lost against the afghans
Black folk can't wage war lmao
What happens when those counterbattery radars start eating antiradiation missiles?
>but America always has air superiority it's in the rules
If we get into a shooting war with Russia or China, the last 50 years of false comfort about owning the air is going to prove very very damaging.
m-m-muh 5th gen fighters
m-m-muh SA-400s
hahahAHAHAHAHahah
Do you even understand the absolute fricking DAMAGE caused to russia when they had both their ground jamming systems and MiG-29's radar torn apart and looked at under a microscope?
It's barely a matter of time before we update the libraries of all our EW equipment and any advantage you though you had is gone the way of Sid Vicious.
Study up on integrated warfare systems. Maybe it'll save your life one day.
>It's barely a matter of time before we update the libraries of all our EW equipment and any advantage you though you had is gone the way of Sid Vicious.
Just 2 more weeks and couple of trillion worth of military budget.
More like a trip back to base and a plug in with a data cable.
Cope harder, russkie. The skies will always belong to us.
>integrated warfare systems.
Sounds like bullshit that overpromises and under delivers like the rest of the defense contractor scams. I'll believe it when they fix the new elevators on carriers.
Except that only works when goatherder mortars target your amerimutt desert camp-out with all your gadgets and gizmos working. Not in some muddy pine jungle where your shit gets constantly scrabled and the likleyhood that your sensor party van is even in the same post code as you.
Then you have to actually have something to conduct counter battery operations with in the first place, which is again, also unlikely depending on what the target of the offensive batteries were in the first place.
"Modern" warfare between peers will devolve into a scramble for analog replacements once the overly expensive electronic toys stop working or when it is constantly being disrupted.
>a big problem for russia, in any war with the US, would be counter-battery. If you fire any ballistic projectile at the US, they will see it, they have computers to figure out where the shell came from, and they have (and constantly practice with) the communications and procedures to quickly and accurately return fire.
Thats what SPA and MLRS are for. Shoot and scoot. Also artillery radars are no wunderwaffe, everyone has them.
>but they they probably hit hard and precisely.
no they don't. it's just a bunch of government funding funneled though tech companies to make the israelites rich. western tech has long been practically dead. remember when "stealth F117" were shot down over Balkans in the 90's? that shit had PR like Star Wars magic but in reality was taken down but a supposedly shitty old radars and missiles they weren't even supposed to detect or hit it.
it's all hype. it's easy and comfy to make claims for your cool equipment so that the companies get paid billions but then when it comes to actual practice we all find out that the supposed magic weapons are actually nothing but a pile of shit
the same with magic javelin which work like 1 out of 4 times at best. like top kek. 200k USD a piece for shit that barely works.ahahaha... now compare it to a simple RPG7 that has the same rate of effectiveness but costs like 1k USD to make. with its only downside is the range and guidance. sure it's hard to hit a tank from an RPG7 from over 100 meters.. but practically nobody ever does.
so what's better a Javelin or an RPG7? i'd choose RPG7. it's light mobile and multiuse. Javelin is fricking gay
all western equipment is hyped up and gay. ALL OF IT. there was a time when it used to be really good but it was way back in the 70s. Stingers are good. F-15s are good. but since then.. not much
says the fat armchair soldier who hides behind a meme flag and who believes playing call of duty makes him an arms expert
Forgot to mention that since Ukraine is a former Soviet State they presumably have the same stock of RPG7s and rockets as the Aks and 7.63x39 they gave out to whoever wanted it at the start of the war.
Its hard to be master of anything when you are 40 years being in every field.
The Russians have way more than arty than they know about.
1000 D-30 > 100 Caesar
russia goes for quantity with artillery and in the end that is probably going to win out in an all out war.
something like caesar will break down eventually.
Hard to be master of anything when your entire country's corrupt from top to bottom. Everybody's lying, everybody's stealing. From the steel producers to the truck manufacturers to the quartermasters to the mechanics to the troops operating the thing.
So your equipment's shit, if it exists at all.
I mean, Western military procurement's corrupt as frick too, but it only steals from the taxpayers.
Yes... so much better.
No proof of that exists though
https://t.me/uvznews/2110
I kneel
That's not proofs.
please buy Archer artillery systems
They're beautiful.
Will they shoot this caliber?
they shoot a 40cm diameter dump load
Ayyyy that’s a wee big for me aresehole, tis I would try though if it meant dead israelites.
Swedes should send few of those to Ukraine if they want advertisement to their arty. Imagine blow to Frenchies and Krauts when Archer outperforms CAESAR and PzH2000
Those suck due to the low ammunition count and the complex and hard to maintain parts
>complex and hard to maintain parts
Only for finns.
Logistics is no joke. There is a reason why nobody uses your archers besides yourselves while our Tampella 120mm mortars have been copied by Israel, while Egypt uses our 155 GH 52 APUs
Then why did you buy korean SPGs?
Because they have high ammunition loads and because they are simple and reliable.
looks like a flawed design that will disintegrate into pieces...
Yeah well that is just like your opinion man.
yeah archer is good sure sure.
we got like 50 of them with 50 coming. 50 isnt doing shit.
Dont listen to this guy my goyum frens, buy Alexander artillery system, Serbian working hours are cheaper than those overpriced Swedish workers, buy locally and support small bussiness ty! We recycle, every every 10th shell you buy we donate 1$ for stray kittens!
thief!
you just made our shit and sell it for less! my lawyers will hear of this
First you gotta sue United states, they took 10 best mobile howtziers in the world to test them there winner of competition would be their suplier, they rejected them all and they bought each of them so now they will make some Frankenstein that will be their own...
Now thats a dick move anon, not what we did!
Can fire a dildo with devastating accuracy
The effectiveness of artillery is 90% fire control organization/technology and communications and 10% the pieces themselves. Give a brigade 100 ww2 pieces like M1A1s yet organize these batteries around a system where forward observers exist on a platoon level where they can observe with unobstructed comms directly to the batteries. This force will destroy a force of smiliar size equipped with the most modern artillery pieces if they are lacking in forward observers and communications.
they are.
picrel 203mm artillery
caliber doesn't mean much
bigger firing range
bigger bang
bigger crater
bigger payload
different payload types possible: nuclear
yes it means something
heavier ammunition
more expensive to manufacture
not mass produced so exotic and small numbers of ammo
shit maneuverability doe to long barrel
>different payload types possible: nuclear
if your nation want's to commit suicide by nuclear retaliation
>yes it means something
yes but not that much
They all get outranged by standard NATO 155 though. And you get a bigger bang, but you also get the joy of having to load your guns using hoists and cranes.
>showing antiquated museum howitzer
Black person, bad news for you, this is not in use...
I'm aware. still good propaganda material
>old rusty useless museum shit
>good propaganda
Yeah, nice pro-kremlin thinking. They all do the same - still brag about a war that was ended almost a century ago
I just like big guns. period
>this is not in use...
neither were the T-62s or the Mosin-Nagant bolt-action rifles, Russians are desperate
Nukes would be KINO
Youre totally wrong. Caliber doesnt mean shit.
For example a 10.5cm Canon has a larger firing range than a 15cm Howitzer. Canons =/= Howitzer=/=Mortars
Educate yourself and learn the difference betwen a Canon, a Howitzer, a Mortar and a Mortar-Howitzer.
Today most type of cannons are obsolete and the two piece munition is the most common.
In an Artillery duel you clearly dont want to sit behind a 240mm Mortar with a horrid accuracy and even worse loading time bc each shell weights 150kg+. You dont want to sit behind the common 122mm and 152mm russian howitzers bc of its utter shitty gun characteristics. You dont want to sit behind a shitty Grad Systems that only produces nice pictures.
The artillery man of the world wants to sit behind a gun that is accurate, easy to handle, outfitted with smart technology, smart ammunition and a modern barrel of several L.
It doesnt matter if you shoot several thousand rounds per day like crazy vodBlack folk actual do, concerning maybe only 0.5%-1% of the shells being on target.
NLOS hit ratio for Nato Artillery of the 80s, for example FH-70, M109 Paladin is in the 0.4-0.6 probability, for more modern systems like Krab, Caesar and PzH2000 its even higher and lies very near to the famous one shot-one kill requirement.
>BIGGER IS BETTER!
german autism in its purest form. that had us lose the war.
That's not what your mom said.
that was funny
BREAKING NEWS !!!
Why does the letter z trigger people so much. I still don’t get it.
Z commemorates the destruction of the Russian navy at Tsushima strait
>At the Battle of Tsushima on May 27, 1905, Admiral Tōgō raised a Z flag on his flagship Mikasa.[3] By prearrangement, this flag flown alone meant, "The fate of the Empire rests on the outcome of this battle. Let each man do his utmost."
>Why does the letter z trigger people so much. I still don’t get it.
Maybe because of this .... lol
I wonder if Q and Z are the same people
Z commemorates the destruction of the Russian navy at Tsushima strait
>At the Battle of Tsushima on May 27, 1905, Admiral Tōgō raised a Z flag on his flagship Mikasa.[3] By prearrangement, this flag flown alone meant, "The fate of the Empire rests on the outcome of this battle. Let each man do his utmost."
next a 240mm mortar.
bigger than our biggest mortar
One one side you have the Russians who have made more money than they have spent on the war
>https://www.newsweek.com/russia-oil-earnings-ukraine-war-cost-1715803
>https://www.nytimes.com/2022/06/21/world/europe/ukraine-russian-oil-embargo.html
On the other side you have Ukrainians begging for money and free gibs
>https://www.bbc.com/news/business-61184275
>https://www.atlanticcouncil.org/blogs/ukrainealert/ukraine-urgently-needs-a-multi-billion-dollar-international-fund-to-survive/
>made more money than they have spent on the war
Not exactly. You need to factor in the cost of replacing the equipment that they lost.
They're not gaining wealth here.
Of course that will eventually be offset by the natural resources they can pull from DPR/LPR.
>You need to factor in the cost of replacing the equipment that they lost.
The cost of fulling up one of the Russians hundreds of thousands of T-72s pulled out of a soviet museum/ Soviet era storage yard? I mean they aren't exactly using many of their T-90s and T-80s or their T-14 Armatas, or any of the stuff that will actually cost them money in the long run
>Russia’s main battle tank in the Ukraine war is the T-72. Russia has also operated a small number of T-80s and even fewer T-90s. But by far, the T-72, built as a cheaped-down version of the T-64 tank, is Ukraine’s main armor opponent.
>https://asiatimes.com/2022/06/russias-tanks-in-ukraine-are-old-obsolete-and-failing/
And Russia can start using tanks Earlier than that
>The Red Army fielded an impressive array of tanks, perhaps 50,000 surviving T-34s of all types and several thousands of IS-1, 2, 3, among other armored vehicles that were partly sent back from Mandchuria.
>https://tanks-encyclopedia.com/coldwar/ussr/coldwar_soviet_tanks/
and don't think they wouldn't if it meant pinching a dollar
>The cost of fulling up one of the Russians hundreds of thousands of T-72s pulled out of a soviet museum/ Soviet era storage yard?
Yes. They will need to be replaced at some point. And they will be replaced by a T90. So you need to factor in the costs of that T90.
Long-term a country will always need to replace what it lost.
T90 is t72 with different turret and autoloader.
Yes. But it costs more than the T72 that it replaces. And it will replace it, because in the end it's the # of equipment that matters when doing inventory.
>The Russian Federation has over 5,000 T-72 tanks in use, including around 2,000 in active service and 3,000 in reserves.
>https://military-history.fandom.com/wiki/T-72#:~:text=The%20Russian%20Federation%20has%20over,by%20over%2040%20countries%20worldwide.
shitty estimate, but according to this random guy on the internet Russia has 10k T-72s still (not including the ones destroyed)
>Kek now I look like one of those "LOOK AT THIS TWEET" anons
That is a very fair point, but that brings me back to my oc. If Russia is at best breaking even, which I'll agree with; how is Ukraine the defending force already out of equipment to the point NATO is providing them with practically everything; plus billions of dollars every couple of weeks. At what point does it become not worth it? Germany spazzing the frick out because they're too reliant on Russia, China and India continue to get richer by continuing trade with Russia, and the rest of the world slowly feeling the repercussions of the badly laid out "sanction war" they tried to play with Russia?
It's a very cheap war as far as the US is concerned. A couple of billion a week is nothing compared to the trillions spent on Afghanistan and Iraq, and the west gets a completely neutered Russia in return, and no westerners are involved directly or are at risk. It's the deal of the century.
>the west gets a completely neutered Russia in return
It won't, but that doesn't seem to matter to ~~*politicians*~~. Russia is strengthening ties with BRICS, Saudi-Arabia, Iran, Argentina, etc.
We might just be starting to see the formation of the groups for WW3
These are all pretty trash economies they're linking up with, other than China. India's GDP is only slightly larger than Canada, with over 30x the population. I doubt the west is worried.
>Muh trash economy
Those are countries that together represent over half the global population.
Muh faceberg-employee does not fricking matter when you're at war, moron. Factories, military & equipment does.
>over half the global population.
Who cares? The countries make up a tiny portion of global economic output. The only one of them that has any significant military to speak of is China, because Russia won't have any left by the end of the year
>Muh economic output
Germany was experiencing hyperinflation before it got its shit together and conquered most of europe.
You're genuinely moronic if you think 'muh GDP' means anything in an all-out war.
>Russia won't have any left by the end of the year
Russia can lose 90% and will still have more than most of the NATO-countries. Did you know Germany has roughly 50 tanks IN TOTAL that it can deploy right now?
Germany is still effectively occupied after WW2 and is a poor example. Germany also has 266 on hand. NATO in general has over 10k. https://www.statista.com/statistics/1294391/nato-tank-strength-country/
>You're genuinely moronic if you think 'muh GDP' means anything in an all-out war.
The only country who would seriously pose a threat out of the BRICS group is China, and India still has close ties to the US, Australia and UK so isn't even exclusively part of BRICS. If you're talking about BRICS as an economic cooperation group rather than a warfare group, then yes, GDP matters because that's how economies are generally measure and the collective GDP of BRICS fricking sucks outside of China.
>If you're talking about BRICS as an economic cooperation group rather than a warfare group, then yes
And we weren't. So stfu Black person.
In war, what matters is how many shells you can make, and how many troops can fire those shells. China + India means everyone else if fricked.
Unless the US wants to do what it did last time: Murder millions of civilians with nukes. But this time that won't end with capitulation, but with global nuclear hoholcaust.
>And we weren't. So stfu Black person.
I mean BRICS is typically an economic cooperation group because the other countries have so little military to speak of (excl. China and Russia of course) that everyone assumes you're talking about economic
You realize China and India are buying these oil supplies at massive discounts because of Russia's complete lack of negotiating power and its still not remotely enough volume to compensate for EU turning off the tap?
>I mean BRICS is typically an economic cooperation group
WAS, anon. WAS.
>Everyone assumes.
Stop assuming. That's how you get to moronic statements like:
>massive discounts
Because that 'massive discount' still leaves the price HIGHER than it was past January.
Even better, the latest news is Russia won't sell any more discounted oil to India hahaha, oh no no no https://www.asiafinancial.com/russia-holding-off-on-new-crude-oil-deals-indian-buyers-say
I always enjoy finding the Russian expats living in the west who are extremely upset that anyone should be speaking ill of the mother country (yet also simultaneously choose not to live in Russia)
I'm of Irish-Austrian decent. I'm not arguing that
>Russia is le good guys fighting for a righteous case against the evil Empire like in star wars
I'm saying there is more to this story you're willingly blowing off. All I've said is what's the point. If Ukraine is winning let them win. They still have all of their exports, yet we give them billions for none of it; and they say our hand outs are not enough.
Ukraine is getting US funding on a lend-lease basis, ie they have to pay for it later. The money will come out of the $600bn frozen Russian foreign USD reserves inevitably, so nobody is going to lose any money over this except Russia.
I mean how well will that go for us though? If Ukraine can't push Russia out of Donbas or Luhansk, their next major resource city is Lviv. How long do you think it would take for them to completely pay us back if this war ends today?
>How long do you think it would take for them to completely pay us back if this war ends today?
Like 5 seconds because the US already holds those frozen Russian currency reserves and will guaranteed get paid regardless of what happens. The war could go on for years and that $600bn would still cover it. The US is at zero financial risk.
>The US is at zero financial risk.
Black person, we hold more than 1 trillion worth of foreign assets in Russia. Not even talking about little worldwide trust-issues caused by this "freezing sovereign country's reserves and using them as if its their own money" shit. I mean, we've already accepted the fact that these reserves pretty much gone. Amerimutts are basically holding a hot potato in their hands now.
Yeah, it's kinda bullshit to seize foreign currency reserves, but I guess all bets are off when governments go off the reservation and start wars in sovereign countries.. And yes you have billions in leased planes from foreign countries that I guess are never going to be seen again, hope they had insurance
True, you hold my investments in hostage and I'm fricking REEEEEEEEE about it.
I don't blame you, it's my own stupid fricking government who rushed into the sanctions like a headless chicken. I just hope I can access it one day and invest even more.
Your economy was developing at a relatively fast rate compared to others before the war.
> Your economy was developing at a relatively fast rate compared to others before the war
Hahahahahahaha holy shit are you fricking serious.
If you count the war as started in 2014 it's true.
That's closer to truth, but I'd say the decline started in 2012 (if we leave out the 2008 crisis).
Looks like it's been downhill for a while now
0.009 RUB for 1 USD
Damn. That's pretty impressive.
Not how economic growth works. The Korean won or the Vietnamese dong for example depreciated again the USD since 2000, but they both had 7-8% annual growth rate.
Also the RUB:USD rate is back at 2016 level.
It's only at that level because the volume is nearly zero, it's fake, everyone knows it. There's no actual price discovery going on at that volume
The currency exchange rate isn't the best indicator.
But in reality, we haven't seen much growth since 2011-12, when the oil market came back from the moon and we realized that putin did nothing with the economy but live off the oil buxx and further tightened the screws around small/medium businesses.
>we realized that putin did nothing with the economy
Economy is fine, industry did nothing because of the import dependency and the "path of lesser resistance" meme. Kill the kaban.
> Economy is fine
It's not, look out the window if you're not a muskowite.
> industry did nothing because of the import dependency
Industry couldn't do shit because the gov didn't let it do anything. You know how business works in here: if you get big and you're independent, some of pooting's friends come and first offer you to sell them your business for pennies. If you refuse, they just take it from you with the help of KGB.
It's like the 90s didn't go away and the most successful bandits just got rid of everyone else and became the government, but of course that's impossible, r-right?
> "path of lesser resistance" meme
That depends on whether "resource curse" is indeed a thing, and the higher-ups didn't plan that long. However, that's a typical way of thinking for soviet party personnel.
>Industry couldn't do shit because the gov didn't let it do anything. You know how business works in here: if you get big and you're independent, some of pooting's friends come and first offer you to sell them your business for pennies. If you refuse, they just take it from you with the help of KGB.
Show your flag, swine.
Truth hurts, doesn't it?
Thread is about to die, but you were outperforming S&P
America fricked up when we decided that "reserves" didn't mean shit. Goodbye petrodollar.
>just connect your VR headset to the internet so that a German can walk you through repairs
Lmaooooo
>Lmaooooo
educate yourself, mongoloid
Zero?
>The $284 billion or more in frozen assets is nearly half of the $585 billion that Russia had stockpiled as of June 2021, the latest that data was available on where the bank stores its money. According to data from the CIA, most countries have less than $5 billion stored in foreign exchange reserves.
>https://www.nbcnews.com/data-graphics/russian-bank-foreign-reserve-billions-frozen-sanctions-n1292153
>The U.S. government has provided more than $688 million in humanitarian assistance to help the people of Ukraine since Russia's full-scale invasion began on February 24.
>https://it.usembassy.gov/u-s-rushes-humanitarian-aid-to-ukraine/
Incredibly unlikely the US will ever pay a penny out of their own pocket. Russia will be in awful financial trouble by end of year when EU has fully turned off the gas and oil pipelines and Putin will be forced to the negotiating table, I doubt this is going on much longer than that
Biden should have explained the lend-lease arrangement better, Americans seem to think they're funding this thing out of taxpayer money
>Russia will be in awful financial trouble by end of year when EU has fully turned off the gas and oil pipelines
German industry is already about to collapse, can you imagine what winter is going to do?
Apparently Germany expects Russia to cut their oil off soon anyway, because they refuse to pay in rubles, so it doesn't matter if they're the ones to cut Russia off or vice versa, it's going to happen regardless. Yes it will probably be messy and involve a lot of grovelling to OPEC, beats funding a regime like Russia though https://www.reuters.com/business/energy/exclusive-germany-prepares-crisis-plan-abrupt-end-russian-gas-sources-2022-05-09/
>Biden should have explained the lend-lease arrangement better, Americans seem to think they're funding this thing out of taxpayer money
It's out of our pockets, moron. WW2 lend lease costed the US $50 billions, we got only $7 billions in return from free rent of bases. The Ukies won't pay back a dime because they are broke and any money sent to them quickly disappeared into some offshore bank accounts. And illiterate homosexuals who said the US could simply expropriate Russian money was wrong, if we do that it's both illegal and suicidal, as other countries won't have their money here going forward if we can just break the rule and steal from them.
>US could simply expropriate Russian money was wrong
It's going to happen though, when you start a war unprovoked, you cede your rights to normal economic niceties like foreign bank accounts remaining intact. The USD is stronger than it has ever been, it's not remotely at risk of being dethroned as the world's reserve currency, despite endless fearmongering from China/Russia/other idiots with terrible currencies
>Unprovoked
That's not true, and if you think other non vassal countries trust the US, the country that started the most unprovoked wars, to decide which wars are justified you are delusional.
Hmm perhaps, from the data I've seen your indicators were good up until 2014. Hopefully the sanctions will create new drive to build up your domestic industrial capabilities.
Everyone without an agenda can see it was largely unprovoked. If the point of the war was to reduce surrounding NATO countries, then it was a huge failure because now Finland and Sweden, famously neutral, are NATO members
Yes the Ukies failed to uphold Minsk 2.0 which had a deadline of Feb 20 2022 and continued to shell Donbass civvies. But it's totally unprovoked. Donbass civilians and international agreement don't matter anyway, amirite?
Russia has broken this agreement several times now, 2014, 2022. Who cares about agreements though right? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Budapest_Memorandum_on_Security_Assurances
Budapest has no binding power, Black person. It literally stood on a mutual goodwill, until west started to destabilize our border regions. Not even talking about ukroBlack folk, who is still trying to circumwent every single written agreement with us that urges them to do something.
That is a terrible reason to break an agreement. You're not even disagreeing that Russia broke it repeatedly, just that it doesn't matter because it's not binding.
The agreement literally says:
>Refrain from the threat or the use of force against Belarus, Kazakhstan or Ukraine.
>Refrain from using economic pressure on Belarus, Kazakhstan or Ukraine to influence their politics.
oops. Why sign it if you intended never to follow it?
A memorandum is non-binding, and that's why it's "refrain from" and not "shall not". Minsk was a binding agreement.
And yet they repeatedly broke Budapest, like every single item on there is broken except for the nuclear part, which they're threatening to break. So they lied, repeatedly.
What part of "non-binding" you don't understand, you idiot? If I said "I will refrain from punching you in the face", that meant "I could still punch you in the face if the situation calls for it, but I would do my best not do".
They still signed an agreement and broke it in every way it is possible to break it. Doesn't matter if it's non-binding, I never commented on whether it was binding or not, the agreement is broken, binding or not. Don't sign agreements you're planning on breaking, it's deceitful, shitty behavior
>Don't sign agreements you're planning on breaking, it's deceitful, shitty behavior
Mohamar Khaddafi said the same thing right before NATO put a bayonet up his ass.
Lots of tears shed for poor Khaddafi, except not really
>That is a terrible reason to "refrain" from "following" the non-biding agreement.
27 posts
no history knowledge
kiwi Black person
Yes, we are back-stabbing monsters that are trying to build USSR 2.0. We never wanted to live with chimped out CISex-CIS Black folk peacefully. We also have communism as our main ideaology. We are the red threat. How did you know?
>Yes, we are back-stabbing monsters that are trying to build USSR 2.0
I mean, if it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, it's probably a duck. If you don't want people to think you're reconstituting the USSR, stop annexing territory that used to be part of the USSR.
Ok, we will annex Australia then.
Best of luck with that, I doubt your ships could make it here without catching fire
>when you start a war unprovoked
you are a moron or a shill
attacks by ukraine on the eastern seperatists increased 400% in 2021.
The 32nd report of the Office of the United Nations High Commissioner for Human Rights (OHCHR) has updated its chronicle of Ukraine’s human right violations against civilians in the Donbass region, directly implicating the Ukrainian army, the National Guard, the Security Service of Ukraine, Far-Right militias and other power structures.
According to the UN High Commissioner, when compared to the previous period, there was a 51% increase in Donbass casualties between February 1 and July 31 2021, accounting for 62 killed and wounded civilians. 81% of civilians died from Ukrainian shelling and more than 80% of hits during the reporting period led to destruction. Among the victims were young children. The number of ceasefire violations from February 1 to July 31 increased by 369%. With these harrowing figures, there has been at least 3,390 confirmed civilian deaths since April 14, 2014.
Do you think that might have been because Russia was annexing their land and sending in Russia troops pretending to be separatists? If Mexico just took part of Texas, do you think Texas would just sit back and let it happen or fight back? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Little_green_men_(Russo-Ukrainian_War)
no butthole. they pulled up in the middle of the night, shelled villages, killed women and children, then ran away like pussies.
Thats not war.
What about destroying 10 million acres of farmland in Crimea? starving families. Russia was giving Crimea 3 billion a year in aide$.
frick off globohomosexual shill.
>What about destroying 10 million acres of farmland in Crimea? starving families
Crimea wasn't part of Ukraine anymore, so how exactly Ukraine could destroy their farmland. Did they perform night raids salting farmland?
12 posts
no knowlege of history
wienersucking shill
Yea butthole they literally salted the earth because the salt marshes reurned after water was cut off
>salted the earth because the salt marshes reurned after water was cut off
sounds like their own problem, why Ukraine had to pump them water, canal dug to Crimea was artificial so Ukraine didn't have any obligations to maintain it
Maybe they were upset that Russia violated their sovereign borders that Russia agreed to respect in 1991 when Ukraine declared independence?
Nobody gives a frick about sovereign borders dummy, that's a propaganda point for the moronic masses.
>Borders for me but not for thee.
I hate the government and israelites.
Who broke sovereign borders except for Russia? Nobody in the world is annexing shit except for Russia and China
Tell that to:
>Iraq
>Afghanistan
>Lybia
>Yemen
>Syria
>Yugoslavia
>South Ossetia
>Vietnam
Should I keep going?
Which of those countries did the west annex again?
You mean:
>Which of those countries had their own 'sovereign borders' violated (or violated the 'sovereing borders' of another state)
Hint: ALL OF THEM YOU FRICKING MONGOLOID.
We're talking about annexation here which the west doesn't do, cope
>Who broke sovereign borders except for Russia?
>We're talking about annexation
Kys, moron.
And even if you're merely talking about annexation: Syria is still on that list. The US currently still 'annexes' their oil fields.
They're protecting oil fields for the Kurdish, there is no long-term US installation in Syria. It's the least the west can do after abandoning them in Iraq
and they just sold out the kurds to Turkey with 0 fricks given.
meanwhile
>Trump genocidering the kurds!
frick off shill
Yeah that was Trump, I don't think most people would agree with that decision. At least the Kurds got to keep the oil. The west isn't trying to annex Syria, which was your original point and is wrong. Who would want to annex it, it's a country-sized destroyed wreckage.
>The west isn't trying to annex Syria
No. It's just 'annexing' its resources.
>They're protecting oil fields for the Kurdish
And stealing oil from Bashar.
Oh no, literally who cares. Man bombed his own country because they followed the wrong religion. Absolute nutcase
>IT"S NOT HAPPENING
Yes it is
>OKAY IT IS BUT WHO CARES?
kys
They're 'stealing' it by funnelling it to the Kurds which is barely stealing it. Bashar created one of the worst refugee crises in human history over religion, you would struggle to find anyone that feels bad for him
>Bashar created a crisis
Frick off glowie.
Do you even know where you are right now?
We don't fall for your moronation.
Ok believe what you want, doesn't change reality
>Doesn't change reality
Like the REALITY that he never gassed anyone?
Or how about the REALITY that the CIA has been doing glowops in Syria for 75 years trying to get that oil?
Why do you insist on being such a contrarian dickhead? 5 seconds on Google
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Use_of_chemical_weapons_in_the_Syrian_civil_war
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ghouta_chemical_attack
https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2021/6/4/opcw-suspects-17-instances-of-chemical-weapons-use-in-syria
>Muh israelitegle
Kek.
>Al Jazeera
Double kek.
Frick off moron.
>nooooo you can't post sources with citations!!!!
embarrassing
Here's some REALITY for you
https://wikileaks.org/opcw-douma/
must be a ledditor+gub employee/contractor+butthurt-region origin+urgently required to boost and stay up to date
>protecting your beer by drinking it
Who has the sovereignty over those oil fields idiot? So you're cool with break-away regions having their own sovereignty now? What if I say Russia is just protecting the industrial plants for the Donbas and water for Crimea?
No I'm not cool with it, I just don't care. Not even Syrians want to live in Syria any longer because of what Bashar did, there's barely any sovereign country left to protect
>Not even Syrians want to live in Syria any longer because of what Bashar did
They are refugees because of the US-backed "rebels". Tell me, how many Syrians were running away from Syria pre-civil war? With your logic, the 8M hohols in Europe right now mean "there's barely any sovereign Ukraine left" right? The level of cognitive dissonance is astounding.
Are you white knighting for the "rebellion" russia started and has been supporting since 2014?
Are you whiteknighting for the "independence rebellion" Ukraine started in 1993?
Ukraine isn't russia anon. Stop being a civnat cuck.
> attacks by ukraine on the eastern seperatists increased 400% in 2021
> source: my ass
While in reality: by the end of 2021 the number of deaths from the military conflict on donbass was measured in hundreds, compared to (tens of) thousands in 2014 and 2015. You can easily find data on that, and I'd do that myself if I wasn't lazy.
> "independence rebellion" Ukraine started in 1993
Are you whiteknighting for the bald homosexual who gave every country in the newly-formed ussr a constitutional right to secede? Let's go even further, if not for the commies, there wouldn't even be a ukraine.
ITS A UN REPORT
you are a wienersucking shill
https://ukraine.un.org/sites/default/files/2022-02/Conflict-related%20civilian%20casualties%20as%20of%2031%20December%202021%20%28rev%2027%20January%202022%29%20corr%20EN_0.pdf
>25 died in 2021
>harrowing figgures
lmao
Ukraine is famously the least corrupt country in Europe, how could you doubt them? A Ukrainian's word is his bond, they are a famously honorable people.
>The Ukies won't pay back a dime because they are broke and any money sent to them quickly disappeared into some offshore bank accounts.
Bar the Black person-tier behaviour of ukrainian government, one of the main reasons of this war was that Ukraine refused to repay gas supply debt since their independence date. They stole our gas from transit pipeline, blackmailed us and Europe into giving him some leeway with that or they will destroy the pipe. Trusting hohols that they will repay their debt is an oxymoron.
Another dumbest idea is thinking about taking their land as collateral of the land-lease. It will just escalate relationships with us even more.
They're probably still a bit upset about the Holodomor bro, no big deal, just tens of millions of Ukrainians starved by Russia
>just tens of millions of Ukrainians starved by Russia
Apparently they should've starved about 40M more.
>Holodomor
Well, their idea of being cryptojews backfired on them. No-one is going to let this type of homosexualry go unpunished, especially when white people are trying to trade, and some gypsie-Black person comes up and asks for gibs or they will disrupt everything. Holodomor is nothing but a meme, no-one really seethes that much about it in Ukraine since its been too long to remember. They mainly seethe because its a "shameful display" in their history books. Just like israelites in WW2. We can also remind them of every single rebellion and betrayal they did since 17th century. We can cry about injustice to every single european country because of the old history between us.
>Holodomor is nothing but a meme
Seems like kind of a big deal
>They're probably still a bit upset about the Holodomor bro
yeah so uspet that 5 millions brave ukrainains fought in the red army in 41-45 while 100k polish hohols larped as nationalists.
Holodomor is a recent meme pushed by hohol propaganda, adding few millions of victims every year.
>Humanitarian assistance
So loans. Loans that will have to be paid back.
Hint: Ukraine is already done. If it's not militarily, then financially. It's a slave state, and will remain one for a century.
I know. They'll never be able to pay us back just the 688 million in humanitarian aid alone, not to mention the cost of the military equipment; and the 28 billion in funds to their military (to buy weapons from other nato countries). I don't think, as I said; if Ukraine were to say "keep that side of Ukraine" just to end the war, that Ukraine would have enough recourses to pay us back in the next 500 years.
>You must be Russian
Why?
>Because you don't fall for the pilpul and look at reality
Kys moron.
I mean yes, and no for America. We may have spent trillions, but it didn't effect the people as much as this. We didn't have the cost of food, oil, electricity, water, heating and air, so on and so forth go up during the war on terror; and when it did it wasn't due to the war it was due to Bush pushing the Saudis or Obama threatening Syria. As me and the Netherlands anon came to an agreement on, Russia is breaking even at best; loosing a little at worse.
>at least that's how I came to see it kek
Russia still has trade with the middle east, China, and India. Who knows who else is buying Russian products behind everyone's back. Russia wont be neutered by this, but it will slow them down a little bit.
>it will slow them down a little bit.
It will slow them down a fricking lot. Most of their income comes from oil and oil derivative sales to Europe. They don't produce anything else other than agriculture. They're going to be in dire economic straits once the oil tap turns off. China and India already buy their oil from Mongolia very cheaply, they don't need Russian oil. EU also stopped buying Russia's gold, so they have very few exports to sell now.
You might want to pay attention to what's going on fren.
>“During the tests, a free flow of oil was obtained with a maximum flow rate of 220 cubic meters a day,”
>https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/industry/energy/oil-gas/huge-oil-deposit-in-russian-arctic-could-open-new-opportunities-for-india/articleshow/92668627.cms
>Russia Overtakes Saudi Arabia as China’s Top Oil Supplier
>https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-06-20/china-buys-7-5-billion-of-russian-energy-with-oil-at-record
>India, an oil-hungry country of 1.4 billion people, has guzzled nearly 60 million barrels of Russian oil in 2022 so far, compared with 12 million barrels in all of 2021, according to commodity data firm Kpler.
>https://www.pbs.org/newshour/world/india-and-china-increasingly-welcome-shunned-russian-oil#:~:text=India%2C%20an%20oil%2Dhungry%20country,to%20commodity%20data%20firm%20Kpler.
Watch him respond with
>But I was told that
Like a good little goyim.
I wish I could help these people realize what's happening behind their backs. It's actually frightening
>I say in the comfort of my computer chair cozy in my blanket
That somehow it's not getting through.
Friend, $30 off isn't something even israelites would be cheering for
>J.P. Morgan commodities experts estimate that China can buy an additional million barrels of Russian crude a day as China recovers from Covid and attempts to add to its strategic crude stockpiles on the cheap. Russian Urals crude is selling for a $30 discount to Brent.
>https://www.nytimes.com/2022/06/21/world/asia/asia-is-buying-discounted-russian-oil-making-up-for-europes-cutbacks.html
>At what point does it become not worth it?
For Biden? Never
For israelitelynsky? To the last hohol
For Germany? Pretty much never. They're way too cucked.
Take anything they say with a hefty dose of salt.
There's a good reason why so much USSR kit is in use - at least it actually exists. Their inventories are a total lie, so much of what has supposedly been delivered has never been produced because everybody's been lining their pockets.
So many new weapons arrive late and in tiny numbers, or not at all, because they're corrupt to the bone.
T-14 Armata's a meme tank, at this rate it'll never enter service.
Fricking orcs can't do anything but steal and destroy.
pretty easy to watch video after video of ukraine getting completely wrecked - at some point homosexuals will have to stop with the delusion and come to terms that they've been lied to (and believed it)
Nobody's disputing that after a hundred years of the same shit over and over, Russia have mastered the art of murdering civilians and throwing bodies and shit equipment at the problem.
But are we supposed to be impressed? Any fricker can do that. They tried something cleverer at the start and got their arses handed to them on a plate. So they ran home and now they're gaining ground so slowly it would take them until 2055 to conquer the whole country.
Ooh, fear the mighty Russian bear.
My fricking arse.
My main point is, the Russians don't want to use their newer armor; because that is supposed to be for the war against the West. They're going to use as much expendable waste as they can, and if they start getting low on it; they'll end the war and say they've completed what they were in Ukraine to do
>Secure the liberation of Donbas and Luhansk for the people of said regions.
Till they start running low and hostilities are at this level, I don't see Russia backing down anytime soon.
>My main point is, the Russians don't want to use their newer armor; because that is supposed to be for the war against the West. They're going to use as much expendable waste as they can, and if they start getting low on it; they'll end the war and say they've completed what they were in Ukraine to do
I understand that. My main point is that they're not making a profit off of this war. At best they're barely breaking even, if you actually factor in all the costs.
They're using the best they have. Majority of the force is half-modenized T72 and that's exactly what we've seen getting destroyed. Armatas don't exist.
why hasn't western artillery stopped Russia?
Because there hasn't been any until like a week or two ago?
Ukraine's been begging for it for ages because they knew it would make a big difference.
Watch what happens now.
>Watch what happens now.
It gets destroyed and captured?
Of the shit that NL and GER sent, half has already been destroyed. In about 1.5 weeks.
>Of the shit that NL and GER sent, half has already been destroyed. In about 1.5 weeks.
Total bullshit
They sent 12 howitzers combined. 7 have been destroyed.
>7 have been destroyed.
I want a source for that that isnt some Vatnik pulling it out if his ass while sitting in Berlin
here's proof
You're a homosexual and (you) know it.
neither Germany nor Netherlands send M777
Show me the destroyed Panzerhaubitze 2000 Algeria 2.0
Russians have kryptonite.
Depleted Uranium?
ultimately take the KRAUT PILL
800MM Artillery
Nice.
>turns up 'erika' one additional volume notch
>access to trusted glowBlack person intel
>crews manning them arent absolute morons
>equipment isnt rusted and worn down
hm yes i wonder why ukrops are as efficient with their artillery as they are
>aren't Russians supposed to be masters of artillery?
nope
The fact is that there are no significant differences. Any weapon in military conditions should first of all be simple and reliable, the question is in shells, which are not just balwaks with gunpowder, and are expensive, and it is not difficult to fasten satellite navigation to the gun, we have a krasnopol projectile, which is very accurate, but it is expensive, and that's the whole problem.
NO. Russian war doctrine summarized: use katyusha and send in mongols or shitskins
You know why. The stupidity of Russians is well known. They bet on mass, not efficiency and better technic.
If you want accuracy, then you are more Germanic than Slavic.
Because us French are masters at war
Most of the military language comes from french
Artillery is a french word
>France master at war
fricking kek
Cope seethe and dilate
OP pic is a french piece of artillery
FROG
half of those wars are against oogas boogas and ching chongs
The french historically have obsessed over artillery since the invention of the firearm.
Supersonic flat trajectory cannons were designed by a frenchman.
The problem is your troops and leaders keep using the cleaning rag wrong.
ammunition
Western artillery has massively long range due to guidance systems and sophisticated hardware/software. Russia has chips stolen from washing machines (https://www.techspot.com/news/94589-russian-tanks-using-chips-household-appliances-due-sanctions.html)
They're not comparable. The US's HIMARS artillery and the 480km range is the reason Russia had to abandon Snake Island, and then pretend like they voluntarily gave it back to Ukraine out of goodwill.
Despite 10's of billions of $'s in aid, the Ukrainians keep retreating.
None of the money seems to be used to help the Ukrainian people. The billions of $'s is just circulated between corrupt politicians and criminal financial organizations.
Western artillery meaning Finnish artillery.
Everyone else is equally bad.
Wish we had more webums of artilleries.
Why is it so overly complicated and so slow?
The ammunition is Heavy as shit
The western artillery crew is sober.
Better is a relative term when we are talking about one side have 10x the gun tubes. And active ew disrupting the killchain on counterbattery.
>Why is NATO artillery Better?
This video dropped from the Ukranian front 5 minutes ago and shows you what can you achieve with modern western artillery
>west
>using artillery
Why the frick spend trillions on slow moving trucks when you can just get more airplanes lmao
Artillery is for poor countries
rate of fire and better supresion reallly
Ukraine kinda prove you need both in numbers. Because if your airspace is contested you're fricked with no arty...
We have the biggest airforce in Europe, but we should also have far more arty.
It's 3 times as expensive and the fancy GPS ammunition is 10 times as expensive
In a slugfest on the Eurasian Plains, numbers matter more than advanced tech, as the Germans found out
GPS guided howitzer shells.
im sorry western man but this is real life bosnian guides the artillery
Nothing the news is just adverts for the MIC nowadays of course they aren't going to advertise products they don't sell.
It's not beter, if you have only 1 artillery piece against 4-5 for the same price.
>What makes Western artillery so much better than Russian
Better marketing? Idk how western army even buying this shit for x5 pricetag for essentially same shit, but with "HI-TECH ALIENTECH YO" spin on it.
>better range
Parity in class. The only argument for it is if all arty of the western country is unified 155mm yoba-class, and it is again the country that uses different calibre and range arty.
>accuracy
Very debatable, gun itself is shit, you get the desired "accuracy" with like 10m splash with guided ammunition, but its costs a leg or two.
>every gun is connected to system that tells them where to shoot and how to calibrate gun to shoot there
System itself is bloc-only, out of bloc its pretty much useless. The woes of system integration performance is that if you take it out of system - its nothing but expensive toy.
>They also have specialized rounds like SMART subamunition rounds that can find it's own targets in area where they were shot at
We have those and use those against ukies, lmao. Except ours cost like 3 times less.
Building an expensive and "unique wunderwaffe" is good in terms of splurging military budget in a "sensible way", because EU doesn't need to fight with anyone per-se. Its army is a paper tiger on a large scale, and their unique and powerful systems don't do shit because of their low numbers produced. Also high-maintenance. Also low gunbore endurance. Anything longer than few months of actual combat, and these elven kingdoms would have to dip into their WW2 dakka reserves to fight zug-zug orks.
But hey, it looks great on paper. Look at Archer. BAE already shat themselves with M777.
>Idk how western army even buying this shit for x5 pricetag for essentially same shit
It's called corruption.
A lot of Ukes are going to lose their lives over this. The hohol government is admitting to horrific casualty figures, so the real situation is even worse.
Yeah, that's terrible, I'm sure Ukraine has lost over 50k by this point, Russia shouldn't have started this bullshit just so Putin could have his name in the history books for being a great military leader
I don't even pretend to care about dead hohols and ruskies, why do you? Answer is that you're here to spread regime propaganda not have a discussion.
The point of the masses of hohol hamburger is that they're running out of top tier troops. You've seen the stories of them rushing people to the front with a weeks worth of training. At some point the Ukes will collapse.
>they're running out of top tier troops
And Russia isn't?
>you're here to spread regime propaganda not have a discussion
Nah I'm just here to counteract all the 'Russia stronk' braindead bullshit that gets posted here, which is usually very easy to counteract by just posting facts
>And Russia isn't?
Russia is taking casualties but nothing I have seen indicates a rate that approaches the hohols. I mean if you think the Ukes can win via attrition then make the argument that they're doing it.
>usually very easy to counteract by just posting facts
Facts are that Russia is winning the military war and the economic war. Maybe not as fast as some people would like, but they're winning.
Running logistics as a service, what could go wrong.
Yes, a bunch of trannies piloting drones will win all of America's wars forever. You are very smart.
I, also, am willing to freeze to death every last German pensioner if it means defeating Putler.
>It's called corruption.
Worse: It's called bureaucracy.
No army will ever admit that the other army is better equipped.
Yeah, I've read how Ukrainians talking about them. Had many laughs.
>https://ukraina.ru/exclusive/20220704/1034288295.html
>Since the beginning of the SMO, Ukraine has received more than 200 artillery pieces with a caliber of 155 mm. More than half of them are American M777s, as well as several German PzH-2000s (Germany has about 100 in total) and French Caesars.
>There were also significant problems with these deliveries.
>Firstly, almost all of these artillery systems were supplied without tools that increase the firing range: computing units, special projectiles, etc. Therefore, their range remained at the level of Soviet counterparts, and often even worse.
>Secondly, there were unforeseen difficulties with logistics. For example, the Americans, as it turned out, for some reason supplied guns without spare parts (tool sets), which created significant maintenance difficulties - the inch standard is used in American systems.
>Thirdly, due to insufficient training, Ukrainian crews cannot use laser rangefinders, and regular sights have to be removed before firing, which entails a decrease in the rate of fire.
>As a result, a significant part of the M777 is under repair.
>https://t.me/RVvoenkor/17268
>We has long been wondered why all the videos with the M777 howitzers in action in Ukraine always include no more than one shot, or is a edit of single shots. The answer was given to us by our scouts, who learned from radio interception data that the sight mounts break off over time when firing. In view of this, in order to save the gun, Ukrainian artillerymen have to remove the sight before firing every time after aiming. Taking into account the fact that all but four howitzers delivered from Canada have an optical fire control system, this is a very critical shortcoming. The already simplified version of the howitzer, which does not have a digital fire control system, becomes very ineffective in terms of rate of fire and accuracy of firing.
>https://ukraina.ru
Sounds legit.
Source aside, it sounds like the kind of boneheaded thing the American military would do. There are far too many shitskins and diversity hire types working in logistical jobs.
I can believe they'd forget the tools, but as soon as the error's realised, it would be trivial to fix.
And as for the bit about removing the sights - that just makes no sense. How is constantly screwing and unscrewing it going to make it LESS fragile? And anyway, do these clowns really expect us to believe they're using look-through sights and not fancy digital aiming systems? They're telling on themselves here – it's all they can conceive of because that's how their gear is.
Pic related, moron.
Well that certainly looks like an authentic and accurate represntation of actual combat!
You got BTFOed with a simple image search. Try harder next time homosexual.
>kek
Well it is arty, not the most exciting job Kraut. That is a training exercise though
Not even talking about all this clown fiesta, loading M777 with a fricking curved stick and shooting M109 with a string is funny at its own. Also 10 men per M777 squad.
utterly moronic copypasta from moronic russian Osint shitlords. Armchair warlord level. VodkaBlack person tier.
Did you know for example that mechanics of the PzH2000 are virtually connected through VR to german maintenance crews in Germany so that when a tech. problem emerges i can be fixed in realtime on the battlefield.
And I'm sure they have the 5G required to broadcast the 4k uplink for your VR-headset, no?
I poop and i poop big poop. But sometimes i peep.
6 And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all [these things] must come to pass, but the end is not yet. 7 For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places. 8 All these [are] the beginning of sorrows. 9 Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake. 10 And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another. 11 And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many. 12 And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold. 13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved. 14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come. (Matthew 24:6-14, KJV)
To those who are not saved; Know that the end is nigh and thus not much time remains. All who do not believe in Jesus Christ as Lord and Saviour are doomed to end up in the lake of fire and remain condemned. If you wish to avoid such a fate, repent, believe in Jesus Christ as Lord and Saviour for your Salvation and He will deliver you from evil and save you from burning in the lake of fire forever.
Also I suggest caution regarding other denominations that call themselves Christians. What my faith led me to is non-denominational Christianity but for you God might have a different plan so go where God leads you.
catholics beware as you are in danger of damnation: http://granddesignexposed.com/sun/baal.html
Something worth watching if you have the time: https://youtu.be/eJK1gLHbOxA
It's just 155mm artillery, what makes It special are the Excalibur rounds which are like 20x the cost of your regular 155mm shells so you won't be able to spam them like your regular shells.
But even then the Russians have advantage in Rocket Artillery where their 9M544 and 9M549 guided shells have a range of 120km (vs 80km of HIMARS) with a CEP of 5-10m: https://www.janes.com/defence-news/news-detail/ukraine-conflict-russian-forces-employ-guided-rockets
And on top of that their Iskanders have more range (500km) than the NATO ATACMS tactical ballistic missiles (300km)
>won't be able to spam them like your regular shells
but if you destroy target(s) with every shell they cost less for effect
You can also be "accurate" (not pin point though) using unguided shells if you can place your artillery closer to the target and properly zeroed them in (similar to rifles), just need to know the limitation of your guns. This is how Russia has been using their artillery in Ukraine.
Also NATO countries haven't provided those expensive Excalibur shells so their artillery is just as accurate as the Russian ones but they have way fewer of them
Also both sides in this conflict have access to soviet-era Krasnopol laser guided shells by using drones to lase the targets
>aren't Russians supposed to be masters of artillery?
Their artillery tactics are inferior when compared to Finnish performance.
Not the same doctrine.
NATO is about destroying objectives. Soviet was about saturating a zone to impair enemy movement. PACT arty had shorter range because the doctrine was to support units closer to the front, following the progression and was therefore more mechanized. Don't forget that NATO doctrine was defensive during the cold war.
The LPR is FREE, and soon the DPR will be free too! Cope!
Even China, Russia's closest ally won't recognize LPR and DPR as actual genuinely independent countries, kek
Good thing they will be integrated into russia then! Along with kherson, zaporozhie and maybe kharkov
anything russia has made was copied from the west... they are not good at anything.
>aren't Russians supposed to be masters of artillery?
Here OP you should read pic related but I'll point out the relevant part, "Appear weak when you are strong, and strong when you are weak."
>Art of war for women
Wut? Is that real?
Apparently.
https://www.amazon.com/Sun-Tzus-Art-War-Women/dp/0804852006
I might need to get that for my sister.
"X for Y" where X is some meme and Y is some subgroup is a way to make money.
Media coverage. It is enornous.
>What makes Western artillery so much better than Russian
nothing. it's not better and you are a homosexual
https://www.geopoliticalmonitor.com/backgrounder-the-water-crisis-in-crimea/
Before the 1960s, the large part of the peninsula stretching from the Isthmus of Perekop in the north to Simferopol in the south was completely unsuitable for agriculture. It was an arid steppe with salt marshes. The construction of the North Crimean Canal that brought Dnipro water to the peninsula transformed the land.
A steady water supply allowed to wash down the salt in the ground and saturate the soil with moisture. This process made the land suitable for agriculture allowing the local farmers to grow crops and vegetables on now fertile ground. The disruption of water supply in 2014 had an immediate effect on the agricultural sector. In 2013, the amount of irrigated land suitable for cultivation reached 130 000 hectares. In 2017, it shrunk down to 14 000 hectares. The problem was most acute in eastern Crimea, where the amount of irrigated land decreased by 92%. Many people employed in the agricultural sector lost their jobs as a result. Without irrigation, Crimean soil starts to degrade, returning to the state it was in before the construction of the NCC – semi-desert.
Frick off, Babish shill
That prostitute of a "statesman" bought French artillery when our own Czech and Slovak industries beat everyone else to wheeled self-propelled artillery tech 60 years ahead and had a current-gen modernization package ready.
Fricking traitor scum starving our high-tech industry and setting our development back.
How is a company supposed to sell guns abroad when their own government doesn't buy?
Artillery is the autism of military conflict.
>muh caliber
>muh milimeters
Western arty is inferiour, moron. NATO has air force instead of artillery.