What kind of sword are these ceremonial swords based on?

Picture on top is the USAF NCO sword and on bottom is the Knights of Columbus 4th degree sword. What type of sword are these ceremonial blades modeled after?

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  1. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    Sneed

  2. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    Not any particular real "use on people" sword. It's a dress item.

  3. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    17th century pillow sword

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      Thank you for this, Anon. I did some digging based on the name. Apparently 'pillow' is more of a collector's term, and that these were more often called "scarf" or "sash" swords.
      Being that they were carried more in sashes or baldrics.
      I'm not so sure yet if they were closer to rapiers or smallswords in fighting style, as they appear to be a transition-style between them.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      >pillow sword
      Yes this, and processional swords, the original wallhangers that saw extensive revival as fraternal/guild order swords like the Mason's and whatnot in the 19th c.
      They were always symbolic, never meant to be used per se but the better versions were proper swords, able to stab a motherfricker with ease.

      "Court" swords or dress swords.
      Basically similar to a smallsword but with a traditional blade profile, and much less practical.

      >Court" swords or dress swords
      Parallel evolution. Court swords were function first, processionals and fraternal swords were form first. Mostly you can tell by the blade cross section, court swords were square or triangle fluted blades, ceremonial swords had noticeably flatter diamond shaped blades

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        So if someone wanted to LARP about/HEMA, one would get a more "court-styled" smallsword? And, then what would be the most 'practical' training/drilling to undertake? Smallsword or some rapier? Does it do both?
        What do you think of the distinction between pillow sword and sash sword vs court sword?

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          You'd want the 1908 and/or Patton saber, or the colichemarde, yes. These are the ultimate most effective forms of the sword for fighting.
          Sport fencing and/or HEMA (unless colonized by legbutts) will quickly make you competent in its use.
          >the cut wounds
          >but the thrust kills
          A perfect truth

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            Remind me of the combat record of the Patton sabre.

            • 1 month ago
              Anonymous

              That's the war's fault, not the sabre's.

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                Funny, the pattern 1908 it was directly copied from saw some use.
                It was generally agreed to be crap and nobody liked it.

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                I don't know, Gen. "We fought the wrong enemy" Patton liked what the French were doing, and he liked the design, so I think I'll throw some credence his way

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                The P1908 isn't French and Patton was an idiot until, coincidentally, right before he died for unrelated reasons.

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                I was referring to the m1913--the Patton Saber, not the 1908. That was another anon who brought up both. Like I said, war changed quick for thr cavalry sword to be of use.

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                >Patton Saber, not the 1908
                lmao like there's a difference.

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                One didn't get to have a service record. That's the main difference.
                Now, speculatively speaking, would the drilling for the Patton Saber or similar pattern translate well to that of a small sword?

            • 1 month ago
              Anonymous

              It's a direct rip of the UK 1908 you mong, which was extensively battle tested and scientifically developed using centuries of military sword combat

              >sport fencing
              That would just be epee for the skill, yes?

              >epee
              Yes, that's the most realistic/useful style, altho sabre fencing will teach you some neat tricks.

              lmaooo
              The Patton Saber was built to facilitate giving point from horseback. It's one of the worst swords you can get if you want to do anything else.

              >giving point from horseback
              Patton had some wierd fricking ideas about horseback combat, I'll give you that. But on foot he taught and advocated the normal dueling style of the day (with a distinct preference for always pressing the attack), and competed and officiated in European fencing matches which was quite a new sport at the time and entirely based off actual combat.

              Patton had drill he wrote based on French teachings for the m1913 for mounted and foot.
              Do you have any suggestions as to another sword style that could be used to drill for smallswords or court a8htswords?

              Most of what you learn at rapier from a modern HEMA school will translate directly to the colichemarde, it's the same weapon albeit a foot shorter

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                >scientifically developed using centuries of military sword combat
                "Centuries of military combat" my foot. The Brits didn't even sharpen their swords lmao.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            >sport fencing
            That would just be epee for the skill, yes?

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            >These are the ultimate most effective forms of the sword for fighting
            Last=/=greatest

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            lmaooo
            The Patton Saber was built to facilitate giving point from horseback. It's one of the worst swords you can get if you want to do anything else.

            • 1 month ago
              Anonymous

              Patton had drill he wrote based on French teachings for the m1913 for mounted and foot.
              Do you have any suggestions as to another sword style that could be used to drill for smallswords or court a8htswords?

  4. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    "Court" swords or dress swords.
    Basically similar to a smallsword but with a traditional blade profile, and much less practical.

  5. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    There is no USAF NCO sword. Where did you get this from?

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      This is what replaced the 1840 NCO sword. There is no prescribed official wear or arms manual for it outside some bass honor guards. It's only "offical" use is wedding arches.
      USAF officers still use the Army 1902 saber, for very similar few events

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      This is what replaced the 1840 NCO sword. There is no prescribed official wear or arms manual for it outside some bass honor guards. It's only "offical" use is wedding arches.
      USAF officers still use the Army 1902 saber, for very similar few events

      From the 2018 publication of the Base Honor Guard Manual:
      14.2.1. The saber is worn by officers and the sword is worn by NCOs. Figure 14.1 shows the nomenclature for pertinent parts of the saber, sword, and scabbard.

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