What is the state of the Chinese navy even like? Can they actually support actions to blockade Taiwan? Will the US do anything about it?
What is the state of the Chinese navy even like? Can they actually support actions to blockade Taiwan?
What is the state of the Chinese navy even like? Can they actually support actions to blockade Taiwan? Will the US do anything about it?
who knows, but its getting stronger rapidly
yes
who knows
>a fricking ramp
Didn't they copy this from the Brits?
I think every carrier that isn't bearing a USN flag has a ramp, but the Brits and frogs don't LARP about how they're the equal of the US but acknowledge that their carriers are going to be used to bomb thirdies who get too uppity.
>I think every carrier that isn't bearing a USN flag has a ramp
The Charles de Gaulle use steam catapults, not ramps. And so did the Foch and the Clémenceau.
>Didn't they copy this from the Brits?
From Russia, the type 001 is basically a modded Kuznetsov which was originally the Riga.
Type 002 was a scratch build based on Type 001 but with a lot of improvements and changes.
They iterated for Type 003 and again for Type 004.
They look like they're having a swell time
Nautical pun intended?
turns out the chinese were already fukken sick before covid
I thought it was funny, anon
somebody post the webm
seems like china could give the US a run for it's money
>poor people points
those poor people points are why they can buy a genuine trijicon for $5 and the US has to pay $4500
This, PLA budget has bigger bang for buck than US, even if they're playing catchup on most tech.
>needs a corruption/bribery adjustment too
No, US corruption is supply-side in senator donations, board-positions for ex-generals, padded unit costs, stuff like that. US corruption is (part of) the other side of $500 screw drivers, one of the few advantages of legal corruption. When the US has 500 of something in their inventory, they probably do really have them and at something close to the expected ready/repairing/disposing ratios.
tl;dr: US corruption is priced in already
another US type of corruption is paying your friends and family 400k to do a workshop with where you right some BS report at the end.
>they can buy a genuine trijicon for $5
why not for free? poor people points make impossible wishes come true.
>genuine trijicon
holy shit, are you one of those morons who actually thinks wish shit is real?
needs a corruption/bribery adjustment too
which would reduce the effective US budget by about half while keeping the PRC unimpacted
how is it corrupt?
they spend a lot of time suing each other over lost contracts, bribing politicians, tax breaks for defence work in their districts
like a bunch of crabs in a bucket
while in china, since rising tide lifts all boats, they defence industry has no yet adapted such stupidity, there's plenty to go around
> they defence industry has no yet adapted such stupidity
China is so corrupt, that corruption is basically a systemic part of the economy. Even to run a small bar or cafe you need to give the health inspector duffel bags of cash when he visits. You can be sure that military contracts get handed to the relatives of Generals and party members. It probably isn't as bad as Russia, but there are definitely corners being cut and the logistical challenges of an amphibious assault would definitely expose them.
>Even to run a small bar or cafe you need to give the health inspector duffel bags of cash when he visits.
That was never true to that extent. Bribery was common enough but it's to cut corners, not extortion when you're operating legitimately.
In any case, those days are largely gone. Only pretty senior people dare to do real corruption any more because the sentence is harsh and there's an entire branch of federal police who comb the bureaucracy looking for it.
Part of Xi's cult of personality is based on him taking real action to clean up corruption. It's selective of course but some municipal health inspector doesn't have the pull to get away with shit any more.
>You can be sure that military contracts get handed to the relatives of Generals and party members
That's probably more or less true, state contracts go to businesses of party member's families, happens all the time.
With defence, it's more often the case that the companies are run but not owned by these people, defence contractors are still usually state-owned companies. Often army owned in fact.
>not extortion when you're operating legitimately
Lol, lmao even. I knew plenty of bar owners who ran their establishments to western standards and still had to pay bribes to stay in business. You're delusional if you think Xi's campaign against corruption has been anything but a pretext to purge his opponents.
Bribery and extortion are easier to perform in democratic states than absolute dictatorships where the entire criminal network can lose their family to transit camps over night.
>there's an entire branch of federal police who comb the bureaucracy looking for it.
They have "anti-corruption" t.v. shows now too, like Law and Order but for anti-corruption cops. Probably pretty boring though lol
>"In the Name of the People" is a TV series with the theme of politics and anti-corruption created by the Film and Television Center of the Supreme People's Procuratorate of China. It is adapted from the novel of the same name by screenwriter Zhou Meisen ... This play tells the story of the high-pressure anti-corruption after the 18th National Congress of the Communist Party of China, the disciplinary inspection and supervision force represented by prosecutor Hou Liangping and the interior of Handong Province (a fictional province) headed by Gao Yuliang, the deputy secretary of the provincial party committee and secretary of the political and legal committee. The story of a series of fierce contests between the huge corruption interest groups of China and the corruption group was finally disintegrated and brought to justice.
i don't think any of that is to the scale of halfing the budget. besides, china is just as capitalist as the west, why wouldn't they be corrupt?
like i said it's the budget projection
the chinese companies know the budget will keep going up forever so dont worry about losing one project, they'll aim for the next which will be even bigger
why would a company not be worried about losing a contract? that seems moronic
>china is just as capitalist as the west, why wouldn't they be corrupt?
Partly because defence modernisation is a pet project of Xi and the only people who really get away with corruption in modern China are sycophants of Xi's faction, which is the only faction left anyway but not everyone is in it.
If you're not one of his sycophantic minions, you can't get away with corruption and if you are, you're not going to skim anything on the boss's pet project. If you did, you wouldn't be one of his pets for very long.
I'm sure there's plenty of family members idling away in those company executive suites and their supply contracts will go to the right people but the corruption probably doesn't go too much further than that because if it caused any inefficiency then there would be hell to pay and highly motivated professionals looking for the reason why.
The Chinese civil service is pretty professional and patriotic most of the time, they have their problems but most of their inefficiency is in working around those problems to deliver the best results for the people or nation. Basically, the civil service is mostly staffed by people who really believe the propaganda. They're a lot less corrupt than Eastern European nations where you're expected to steal for your family, in China you're expected to serve the nation and there's lifelong indoctrination to that effect.
>The Chinese civil service is pretty professional and patriotic most of the time, they have their problems but most of their inefficiency is in working around those problems to deliver the best results for the people or nation.
Lmao
Have you ever lived in China?
He currently does, anon, which is why he's posting delusional cope that can be only explained by a metaphorical, or perhaps literal, gun to his head.
He could be a tankie; I one time ended up talking to one and he showed me some breadtube video where the guy is talking about how the CCP actually implements policy that is more in line with what Chinese people want than the US does for Americans.
>CCP actually implements policy that is more in line with what Chinese people want than the US does for Americans.
probably true, chineses govt is nationalist while the average mutt doesnt support troons and other shit like that
>probably true, chineses govt is nationalist while the average mutt doesnt support troons and other shit like that
so-called tankie here
It's a half-truth.
The CCP accumulates and spends political credit in sort of the same way as western parties but for different reasons.
They lay down the law on lots of freedom related areas (spending political credit) but have to make that up with prosperity, housing, environmental improvements (very slowly lol and not everywhere) and anti-corruption to gain credit again.
They aren't scared of losing elections obviously but they are scared of widespread dissent and potential revolution. The trigger is sort-of considered to be the point where the average Chinese in the street scoffs at the party and spits at the leader's name. When it gets to that level, they don't think they can keep control and they want to last forever.
So long as Chinese keep saying things like "well yes they threw that protestor in an asylum and had them diagnosed as mentally ill and drugged to the eyeballs but at least I have a place to live and a job, in USA they keep getting shot in the streets and there are riots everywhere" then they're pretty sure they'll keep power.
It helps that living standards in China have progressively risen for decades, it *looks* like the CCP is doing really well because everyone has an easier life than their parents and their grand-parents think China has become a paradise. Even if in reality, the CCP just loosened control and let the rest of the world in a bit.
to add to this, the average Han chinaman has a raging hate boner for most "protestors".
they happily support actual holocausting tibetians, uygurs, Hong Kong democracy movement, etc.
I think it's a sour grapes thing, like "i cant have freedoms, frick you too"
It's because their culture is confucian. Protesting is effectively saying that those in charge are not doing their job, and in Confucius teaching that means revolution. When the Chinese see a protestor, they see a potential yellow turban
to be fair, the chinese aren't run by an ethnically exclusive religious sect that actively despises the people it rules over and seeks to erase them
>be esl teacher in Beijing
>our boss gets a promotion and our new boss is shit
>Chinese lady who's petty and vindictive
>people start jumping ship to new companies
>old company refuses to let us transfer our visas (against the law)
>refuses to release our work permits and other docs (it was illegal for them to even be holding on to them in the first place)
>we all file complaints to relevant authorities
>they say "ok let us know in a few weeks if they still haven't release your docs"
>keep getting told this every month
>authorities do nothing but keep bullshitting us until our visas expire
Was meant for
Here's another one:
>company sets us up with a real estate agent to find housing
>agent says that for a fee she'll get us fapiao (basically an official invoice) for our rents so we can write them off our taxes
>eventually comes out that the invoices she sold us were counterfeits
>she gets fired
>she gets re-hired a month later
bruh frick that
The real fricked up part was that the agent knew we only had 3-4 weeks to find a place cuz the company only booked our hotel for that much time. Her commission was a month of rent so she had no real incentive to try and help us bargain it down.
this isn't corruption this is just a single employee being a shithead
>forging government documents
>no criminal prosecution
>keeps jobs
The fact she basically got off without consequences means that she either has paid bribes or one of her friends/relatives has. Getting re-hired is a clear sign of nepotism.
>It's okay comrade, we won't punish you as long as you publicly renounce your evil ideology.
The difference between that and pic related is just one of magnitude
Yes china is run on the lines of true communism, totally not invented by the small hat tribe you say rules over the usa
Marx & Lenin & Engels are 150% chinese to tankies
They're not though, because pure communism is so illogical it can only be implemented or maintained by people who hate those they're ruling over. Even Mao had to bring in ~~*Sidney Rittenberg*~~ to make sure they were brutal enough. When the israeli influence faded they started allowing more free markets.
>if you don't like us ruining your society you must have a small dick
You have a small hat
>blaming the israelites for your tiny dick
>Have you ever lived in China?
Yes, for quite a few years.
>delusional cope that can be only explained by a metaphorical, or perhaps literal, gun to his head
No, I just don't swallow childish stereotypes of rival nations that are on the level of America-frick-yeah.
I'm no tankie, I think Xi wants to invade Taiwan, that Taiwan is an independent country and should be recognised as such by fricking everybody and be allowed into all the country-clubs like the UN, WTO, WHO and every fricking thing. They belong in POTATO which should be a thing.
I just recognise that the suck in China isn't universal, some parts of Chinese society work well. I wouldn't want life-long indoctrination in nationalistic service but it does work on some levels.
I wouldn't want to live permanently in China but if you can deal with using VPNs for a few years and aren't a /misc/sperg who has to get into political discussions all the time, then it has pros and cons.
Different doesn't mean worse on every level. USA has flaws, China has flaws, they are flawed in mostly different ways and which is better depends on what you're looking at.
You want to look at police shootings? Unheard of in China.
Mass shootings? There's occasionally a mass stabbing somewhere, it's pretty rare.
Freedom though, lol China.
You want freedom to move around? Good luck, you need ID to use any inter-city transport and you're fricked if you're on the list
Every metro station has x-rays and the list of things you can't take on a subway, train, maybe even bus these days, is huge. It's hard to get a folding knife out of a city except as checked luggage on planes, you can't even post them.
Chinese police keep a database of where every person in China is expected to be sleeping on any given night. Every hotel stay goes into the DB.
Honestly, I wouldn't want to live in either of them but I do think USA hegemony is a lot more enjoyable than a Chinese one would be. At least we get cheese burgers.
Except you're wrong about the level of corruption in China. I can share multiple stories about regulatory capture and corruption that I witnessed first-hand over the course of two years there.
love me good story time, pls tell
>the US is a bastion of corruption where billions of dollars just disappear and violence runs rampant
>China is a beautiful country where everyone just works together without a single dollar being misspent and brutality is unheard of
>no, I'm not a tankie, I'm le enlightened third position
Strangely, neither of those things are in my posts.
>regulatory capture
I know there was that one with telcos and Xi's sister's company. I assume there are others.
My point stands that you don't have to pay anyone off to open a small business. The corruption is very high level and largely invisible and mostly restricted to party families that have a level of approval from Xi that keeps the Ministry of Supervision off their back.
If I opened a clothes shop in a shopping mall, I would be paying someone off but I'd never know, it's just that my rent for the shop and the management fees to the mall is higher than it should be because the mall is owned by a national conglomerate that is part-owned by a CCP family and there's not much competition because you can't get the land to build a mall or the permission to build a mall on land you have unless you're connected to the mayor and/or provincial governor and/or secretary. So they set prices at whatever they can make people pay and shops turn-over pretty regularly because they have trouble paying the high rent but it's where the most business is.
So there's corruption but not really at the street level, it's high up and it's baked into the economy in ways that most people will literally never notice.
>you don't have to pay anyone off to open a small business
Maybe you didn't, but I knew plenty of pub owners who had to pay bribes to keep the health department happy.
NTA, but if you're willing to share, what part of China are you currently in? It could be that the conditions there are much better than where this guy
was.
China's Provincial governments might vary wildly in terms of corruption. State ones definitely do here in America.
For instance you have my home state of California, spending $35 billion dollars for a whole ZERO miles of high speed rail, and then you have Alaska, which directly manages and clears out corruption in the oil industry to the extent that, if it were another country, the US would have done regime change.
>I do think USA hegemony is a lot more enjoyable than a Chinese one would be.
this.
>Chinese police keep a database of where every person in China is expected to be sleeping on any given night. Every hotel stay goes into the DB.
Isn't this the norm outside the US? I remember having to hand over my passport at hotels in europe and give a shit ton of information. I don't think you can book a hotel in europe without providing ID.
A lot of the chinese surveillance state is somewhat redundant though, as a cellphone associated with your ID coupled with debanking already allows a large degree of movement denial.
>Isn't this the norm outside the US? I remember having to hand over my passport at hotels in europe and give a shit ton of information. I don't think you can book a hotel in europe without providing ID.
I mean, that's just so the Hotel can be sure you won't just frick off.
well you could just give em your credit card info instead though?
No, because that opens them up for liability and handing out credit card info like candy seems dumb.
>better to have all of your liberties squashed every day than to risk the one in a million chance of being murdered sometime in the future
ishygddt
Giving up your guns doesn't even mean you won't be a victim of mass murder, it just means the weapon will be different.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chengdu_bus_fire
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daegu_subway_fire
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kyoto_Animation_arson_attack
you missed the grand daddy of all east asian mass murder plots
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tokyo_subway_sarin_attack
>grand daddy
>kills 13
The kill count is pathetic for the level of work and involvement they went through. They literally could have gone in with knives or hammers and killed more.
It's also thousands of people brain damaged, paralyzed a,d crippled for life, many being still plugged into some sort of life support.
Two more years
Praise the Sun!
>he Chinese civil service is pretty professional and patriotic most of the time, they have their problems but most of their inefficiency
Holy shit, this is like word to word copied from communist propaganda pamflets from Polish United Workers' Party I read in old newspapers from before 1989.
Like, literally.
I spit in your general direction, you filthy communist subhuman pencil dick chink.
these fricking morons working in the car workshop or pumping the sewers for rmb3000 a month are singing patriotic songs while their bank money get stolen, they get locked in and burned to death during a fake pandemic and their police routinely disappear them for wrong think
they already know they are bottom feeders, they just hope their country can make others even lower
Tbf the 3000rmb goes a long way back in their home town.
>they already know they are bottom feeders, they just hope their country can make others even lower
So basically the same mentality as Russians.
They know there fricked for life, and want others to be fricked too.
>The Chinese civil service is pretty professional and patriotic most of the time
The Chinese civil service is staffed with a bunch of clock-watchers who got in because they wanted the Iron Rice Bowl and were tired of dealing with the abusive nonsense and shitty wages from private sector companies. Maybe there are some truly dedicated Red Guards in the civil service, but most of them are there to 過日子- ie, to pass the day, to live your life.
Source: most of my wife's relatives work for the Chinese civil service in one way or another. My dad's side of my family in China is also civil service. Their level of giving a shit is comparable to Western civil servants, ie they do not give a shit at all and they're just there to collect a cheque. They are interested in the survival of the Chinese state not because of some patriotic feeling, but because it's the hand that feeds them- same as Western civil servants. The one difference is that I would say they are relatively smarter and more competent than the average Western civil servant because of all the exams they had to take, whereas in the West they just hand out civil service jobs to black muslim lesbians to meet diversity quotas.
>The one difference is that I would say they are relatively smarter and more competent than the average Western civil servant because of all the exams they had to take, whereas in the West they just hand out civil service jobs to black muslim lesbians to meet diversity quotas.
The smart ones left and came to the West, fool. Go back to suck Xi's dick.
I heard that civil service corruption in China is like a fundamental part of the social contract. Civil service jobs are some of the most sought after and hard to come by in society, requiring you to be either crazy well connected and/or doing well in school to get them.
What you get in exchange is the ability to influence state contracts and/or shake down small businesses, meaning every private sector business has to kowtow to some state official if they want to exist successfully.
Getting rid of corruption would mean cutting off the funds and power of the elite and most accomplished class of society, which is never going to happen anytime.
If it legitimately worked like that, then people would lose favor for being caught stealing. Instead they "get caught stealing" when they lose favor.
It's a classical system of control - everyone has to be guilty of something to be allowed to advance. If you're guilty, you can be controlled, therefore you can safely be promoted to positions of consequence. If there's nothing on you, you're not controllable - you're free to act against your superiors' interests.
You're kind of getting there, but the point isn't money. Once you have enough power, money stops being important - you can always make some using your power. You don't necessarily need to steal a million to buy a house that costs a million, you can use your power to have that house built for you. The real point is control - when everyone is guilty of something, you don't need to fear dissent from the ranks; anyone who tries to stand up can be brought down for "corruption". Clean it all out, and now you have to come up with another way to keep people in line.
Funneling a solid chunk of the budget into trans rights activism, pronoun policing, and race privilege awareness campaigns.
lol rent free i love seeing this seethe everywhere its amazing
I remember a few stories - there was a thing where a pilot was talking about the latest us jets being equipped with an autopilot system that can handle refueling automatically, but they still had to do it manually, cause the defense contractor was charging crazy loicence fees to actually use the system.
Another story where the air force had to reverse engineer and manufacture some simple parts like screws in house, because they were quoted pretty crazy prices by the actual defense contractor.
Also carbon fiber sinks, lol.
US military spending actually has a ridiculous amount of oversight. what you call "corruption" is actually overspending on unnecessary shit for the benefit of some people but it doesnt really prevent the essentials from being provided.
Contrast this with countries like Russia where corruption means that essential stuff is either never purchased or is sold off by middle management
ehhhh I wouldn't put too much stock into that "oversight". There's countless investigations into projects that lead nowhere on dtic where the report still ends up being something along the lines of "while the project was a failure, the project goal didn't actually specify success as a requirement. Thus we conclude no funds were wasted in pursuit of this project."
And then we have all the classified projects, which make up a good chunk of Air Force spending which is basically an unknown by default.
>"while the project was a failure, the project goal didn't actually specify success as a requirement. Thus we conclude no funds were wasted in pursuit of this project."
What is the issue here? If it is some sort of exploratory project, then the well-managed pursuit of success is enough. Putting a "success no matter what" clause on projects is how you end up with half-assed shit that barely works.
That's... the entire point of exploratory projects.
5/10 bait but made me chuckle
as much as it pains me to say it, US has some real talent keeping it afloat. I dont understand these people, but I see them regularly. The best & brightest still come to US & produce results for reasons I dont understand
Freedom and a population intelligent enough to uphold it. Its that simple. Bugs and small minded people won't get it.
I think the fall of the Soviet Union was the worst thing to happen to the US space/defense industry. The 1990-mid 2010s years have been characterized by pure grift/incompetence, with every development either being cancelled or was underwhelming/over budget.
Only with the rise of China and/or pressure from the private space industry did the US realize that things cant keep going on like this. I think there's a major cleanup process happening right now in the US defense sector.
oops, you got that backwards Chang
There’s a video that some bugmen fisher boat took of their carrier today and the ship only had a single plane on deck and no visible jets prepped in the elevator. Also the little ship was able to go right up to the carrier without any warning approaching or leaving. Chink ships would be able to be wiped by the US in record time if conflict were to erupt lol
This but theres so many of them to sink. I think it will be a tremendous waste of money. That and think of all the pollution it would cause to the pacific.
Just making some nice new artificial reefs, though I wonder what sort of heavy metals the chinks are corner cutting their shipbuilding with.
>I wonder what sort of heavy metals the chinks are corner cutting their shipbuilding with
Just pig iron. The ships will all rust clean through in three years or less
This, Xi must be executing that fishermans family as we speak
>This, Xi must be executing that fishermans family as we speak
They don't execute dissidents in China, they just suppress them.
They get ruthlessly deplatformed and harassed in bureaucratic ways until they're exhausted.
Eventually they might be jailed but it's kind of an end-stage after completely ruining their life.
The point isn't to prevent dissent from occurring, that's impossible. It's to make dissent look very unappealing so that your entire family tells you to STFU before you ruin your life and your boss fires you to avoid being associated with you.
China is way more subtle in their suppression, windows and gulags are Russian-tier tyranny. China is about technocratic and nudge-theory solutions.
If you're not anybody famous they'll disappear you sometimes like that girl who threw ink at Mao's portrait in Tiananmen.
>like that girl who threw ink at Mao's portrait in Tiananmen
It was Xi's portrait and it was in Shanghai in 2018.
>On her now non-existent Twitter account, Dong claimed she had suffered from Beijing’s “mind control” and called on the international community to step in to stop Beijing’s brutal persecution of its citizens
She was certified mentally ill and held involuntarily in a mental health hospital. She may or may not actually be mentally ill, she sounds it a bit but it's also a tactic the regime uses against dissidents sometimes.
In 2010, there was a man who tried to throw ink on Mao's portrait in Tiananmen but he fumbled the first throw and then got jumped on before he got a second chance.
>No one knows where they are
They're often held in house-arrest or something called administrative detention, it doesn't get announced in the media but that doesn't mean they're disappeared. Administrative detention is kind of like that but it's generally a long but temporary measure before they eventually charge people.
>execution vans and concentration camps both
You're some Falun Gong schizo. There aren't execution vans. There are actually concentration camps but not for dissident Chinese, it's for cultural genocide of Uighar.
>She was certified mentally ill
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_abuse_of_psychiatry_in_the_Soviet_Union
Yeah, that's pretty much it.
It's a relatively uncommon thing in China these days, they usually just deplatform people and nuked their social credit and harass them bureaucratically but in her case, she came off a bit unstable anyway so they might have decided to go that route for that reason.
Wait, is THIS specifically why scientology has such a problem with seeking mental health?
Cults generally prey on people who are insecure and unhappy. Convincing someone who's miserable that your group is the key to turning their life around gets you a loyal follower
Yeah but L. Ron had a wierd, almost pathological hatred of pscyhology/psychiatry on a personal level, and I wonder if this is part of it.
No, it's probably because qualified psychiatrists could effectively call out his bullshit about "you're unhappy because your thetan levels are fukd"
I'd say that
is a part of it, but there's some other stuff in play. When Dianetics first came out it was marketed as kind of a replacement for psychiatry. The core ideas of Dianetics weren't actually that bad if you stripped out all of Hubbard's rambling (it's basically just self-guided group therapy) and there were a few psychiatrists at the time who didn't disagree with using those methods in specific circumstances, they just thought it wasn't the cure-all Hubbard presented it as, which Hubbard didn't like. But I think even at that time Hubbard wasn't rabidly anti-psychiatry, that came after he went to sea for a few years and started taking lots of pills. Incidentally, if anyone is ever in LA for some reason the psychiatry museum is pretty fricking funny. They manage to blame psychiatry for the holocaust, racism and 9/11 in the space of like three rooms.
I was actually thinking of this one https://www.ctvnews.ca/mobile/world/chinese-man-jailed-for-splashing-ink-on-mao-portrait-in-tiananmen-square-1.2338958?cache=%2F7.632878
>She may or may not actually be mentally
All Chinese women are mentally ill, it's just a question of magnitude.
He's not completely wrong, but he is lying by omission. When someone is well known they often just cancel them for wrong think as it also sends a message to everyone else; the only real difference it has from American cancel culture is that it's done by bureaucrats instead of blue-haired freaks. That said, some high profile people like Jack Ma and Fan Bingbing disappear only to show up later to make a big public confession of all of their "crimes".
>the only real difference it has from American cancel culture is that it's done by bureaucrats instead of blue-haired freaks
and that American cancel culture doesn't matter in the real world
Tell that to the people who've lost their jobs and become unemployable. There's a reason why George Zimmerman auctioned his Kel-tec off.
>There's a reason why George Zimmerman auctioned his Kel-tec off.
Because he'd make a lot of money of people who want to own this piece of memorabilia?
Because his reputation as an evil white man who killed a future astronaut has made him largely unemployable
>the only real difference it has from American cancel culture is that it's done by bureaucrats instead of blue-haired freaks.
Hurr durr I love pushing shit straight from my mouth too
> the only real difference
> proceeds to cite the absolutely massive difference between government sanctioned disappearing and being told you shouldn't be racist on twitter by civilians
You're a brain rotten moron, if not baiting.
This is why the US system is superior - you can throw ink at any presidents' portrait - what will happen at worst is young get a misdemeanor and your brave opposition of the system will gain you 150 likes on Twitter, and maybe an article from an outrage starved journalist.
Both actions would have the exact same effect - nothing - on the actual system of government.
https://www.fox13news.com/news/man-who-vandalized-south-florida-gay-pride-crosswalk-ordered-to-write-25-page-essay-on-pulse-massacre
Do you really feel sorry for him
i feel sorry for that yeye ass haircut
Feeling sorry for him has nothing to do with it. In a society that actually respects freedom of expression you should be allowed to express homophobic views all you want. His punishment should have been little more than a fine and compensation for the damages he caused. The fact that the state has used the threat of violence to compel an individual to disavow an idea that the state finds unsavory should worry us all.
> anon is crying because a guy got off with a slap on the wrist because he thinks the wrist slap was too hard
You're a homosexual kek
another proud aryan specimen in the fight against wokeness
China's had gulags for 70 years and makes Russia look like a liberal paradise.
Sauce? Ive heard of numerous cases where people who disrespected the party or were very vocal about democratization just getting disappeared and are never heard from again. Not even their families are aware. What about the Falun Gong people? Also disappeared and never heard from again. You're a moron who knows nothing about how China suppresses dissent. If all they did was censor people there would be a revolution. They are killing people if they become too vocal and prominent. If all they did was complain, sure they get silenced through censorship. If they ask for democracy, freedom, splash some paint, burn some picture of Xi.. they get disappeared. No one knows where they are. Alive? Dead? China has execution vans and concentration camps both.
The 2 previous carriers are all fake shit
they hardly do anything and are prestige projects to keep control of the people
they also dont have a plane to take off from the ship as the j-15 cannot take off with more than 4 missiles. The su-27 was never meant to be a CATOBAR fighter jet
Why didn't they buy (steal) the Su-33?
>Can they actually support actions to blockade Taiwan?
They can definitely physically blockade the ports and then dare the USA to start WWIII over it. Which is probably what they'll do sooner or later and the reason why USA keeps making a bunch of noise about they definitely will so don't make us have to.
>Will the US do anything about it?
Who the frick knows, they're saying they will.
You got an inside source at the white house to know their actual secret policies?
Given the damage to USA prestige and international relations of not doing it, I don't think they'd have much choice but to square up. Their policies would be about how to prevent it getting out of hand rather than avoiding intervening in the first place.
There's also the fact that USA needs an excuse to bomb China's defence research companies to slow down their catch-up. This would be an ideal one.
Blockades are an act of war and attempting one would be the same attempting an invasion so Chinks would be ones starting "WW3".
blockades against recognized countries are an act of war. the US doesn't recognize taiwan as a sovereign nation.
>against recognized countries
This part doesn't exist but go ahead and try a blockade chang, the US won't do shit stop being scared of Taiwan.
>China will probably do it
China probably won't do it, if not for military reasons then because their domestic stability depends on a stable economy and an invasion would risk sanctions. There's an argument that the West won't want to pay the cost, but it didn't turn out to be true with Ukraine so I doubt China would risk it.
>it didn't turn out to be true with Ukraine
Sanctions on China would have much larger economic effects, especially for the US since we import so much crap from them. Are Americans really going to tolerate empty shelves at Wal-Mart for Taiwan's sake? Considering that there is already a growing backlash against our support for Ukraine, I doubt it. Our involvement in the Ukraine conflict is a rounding error in the context of our national budget, while a war with China would cost both lives and money.
>Are Americans really going to tolerate empty shelves at Wal-Mart for Taiwan's sake
They will, but Wall St. will not.
I doubt most Americans can find Taiwan on a map. One anon here literally thought Taiwan and Thailand were the same place. A war with China would affect everything from Funkopops to clothes. I hope I'm wrong, but I really have my doubts that your average American will care about some slants on an Island when they can barely give a shit about white Christian Ukrainians.
>White christian Ukrainians
They're Orthodox Slavs. I still support them either way if only for defending their homeland against an aggressor but come on now.
They're still easier for the average American to identify with than Taiwanese people.
Chinese labor costs have risen to the point where they are no longer competitive. We can build factories and get labor cheaper from Mexico now. China needs us, we dont need them.
While Chinese labor is becoming expensive I don't think we'd be able to replace them overnight as there isn't really one country we could just switch over to. The Pearl River delta has basically become a mega city with Guangzhou, Dongguan, and Shenzhen all linked together. I don't know if Mexico could build something similar and having narcos everywhere will probably limit their speed of economic development.
normies will definitely care if china bombs iphonestan
>iPhones are made in Taiwan
Chinese hands typed this post.
It's full of lies and outright misinterpretations of the truth.
For the 99% of lurkers, google the corruption problem Chyna has with simply having rice in a barn. Then multiply that simple task, with it's multiple layers of corruption, to the military.
>Given the damage to USA prestige and international relations of not doing it, I don't think they'd have much choice but to square up.
This, we don't have a choice and the PRC knows it. If we were to let the PLAN roll over Taiwan it would hurt our credibility and South Korea/Japan might be having second thoughts about their partnerships. China will for sure use the momentum to threaten our other allies in the region and they may go neutral over it.
china has a fancy new aircraft carrier but i don't know if that would actually be useful for a invasion where they can just launch from the mainland
>china has a fancy new aircraft carrier but i don't know if that would actually be useful for a invasion where they can just launch from the mainland
Their carriers could go north, south and east of Taiwan for total blockading and envelopment.
Obviously USA might have something to say about this plan.
Why does it have 3 sweatshops on deck?
china is a weak country and is going to collapse any moment now. Don't worry about it gaijin.
Why is everyone fixated on Chinas carriers? China and Taiwan are literally next to each other, they don’t need a single carrier. The real problem lies with china’s massive Air Force and missile stocks. The first day of war in the pacific would be thousands of missiles being lobbed from China into Japan and South Korea.
>The real problem lies with china’s massive Air Force and missile stocks
The rocket artillery is another problem and arguably more destructive. There are a *lot* of rocket trucks in Fujian province.
The Chinese military shipbuilding industry was recently consolidated into a single enterprise; the reason being greater efficiency. The head of the new enterprise and a major figure in arguing for the consolidation was invested by China’s anti-corruption agency. They reportedly found massive amounts of corruption and breaking of "Party discipline" to the point it was deemed to damage the quality of the ships being built.
That’s China, an utterly corrupt peasant shithole. Everything is fakery. Only propaganda is shown. There’s so much theft, so much embezzlement, so much scamming, so much evasion and manipulation of laws, that it’s ridiculous to think they’d be in any position to fight the West.
>The head of the new enterprise and a major figure in arguing for the consolidation was invested by China’s anti-corruption agency. They reportedly found massive amounts of corruption and breaking of "Party discipline" to the point it was deemed to damage the quality of the ships being built.
You know what's worse than investigating for and finding corruption?
Using yplour much lauded anti corruption campaign as a cover for going after people from the aposing faction so you can become a true dictator?
They're not mutually exclusive anon. You can have a corruption authority that does its job but gets muzzled when inconvenient.
But no, worse is not investigating corruption at all, or investigating it but not finding it because your anti-corruption authority is corrupt as well.
>finding corruption
The problem with dictatorial one-party states like China is that "corruption" becomes a meme, because there's no feasible alternative party or government available to switch to if one government isn't handling corruption. It's well known you can buy your way out of, or others into, corruption investigations in China.
Like seriously this argument only works on moronic 15 year olds on /misc/ or first year university students who really, really, want to believe that all problems can be solved by rational debate. Everyone else knows you're shilling.
Not known until the shooting starts.
They are adding to their fleet at a quick pace, though. They could be incompetent paper tigers but if I were USN I'd rather not be a betting man. Better be safe than sorry
much like the Iranians, they have focused on more "unconventional" strats because they know they can't beat the Americans on a conventional tonage battle
Exception is the Destroyers etc they've built for power projection
I think a Chinese blockade would be more ships intercepting with ground based aircraft/missiles providing most of the strike capabilities
Continued thoughts:
this focus on what is effectively area denail is obviously meant for both defensive actions and what (the chinese hope) would be regional conflicts
if they blockade taiwan they still want ships arriving in Shenzhen and Qingdao
>if they blockade taiwan they still want ships arriving in Shenzhen and Qingdao
They think the response wouldn't be a West Taiwan blockade?
>Destroyers etc they've built for power projection
>Destroyers
>built for power projection
uuuhh
>Will the US do anything about it?
The whole purpose of AUKUS is to build a coalition of technologically-advanced nuclear submarines to destroy Chinese naval forces as they try to blockade and/or resupply troops on Taiwan. We will be at war as the population (both democrats and republicans) are being prepped for war. Our newest carriers will be stationed a thousand miles away supporting flight ops to clear the skies above Taiwan well out of range of Chinese rocket and missile fire. China cannot threaten the US mainland which is why this war is bound to get the US involved. It will also provide the US and allies a knockout punch to stop the Chinese century from happening and bring about another century of humiliation.
since taiwan is an island can't they just connect some ropes between the USN and taiwan and pull it closer to the usa?
nobody posted the chinese navy video yet? ok, I will
i'll just leave this here.
enjoy this knowledge.
i dont think the USA has much time left as the global hegemon.
China’s meme money is worthless, all that new gdp will be good to atleast funnel goods through Brazil to China but dont expect living even half as good as a average poor first c**t like Portugal ot the Czechs
>falling for cia propaganda
Sirs? We will show the basterd b***hes after all.
A fugging ramp!
CIA think tank:
>China’s long-range strike assets would have been expended in the first weeks of the war or destroyed by US forces. But a large inventory of shorter-range weapons would remain to prosecute the blockade. The Chinese military would use artillery, land-based anti-ship missiles, patrol boats, mines, and older fighter aircraft to destroy port facilities, block the approaches, and bombard cargo ships attempting to enter port, all under the protection of air defense systems along the coast. Any mines and obstacles we cleared during one convoy operation could be reseeded immediately once we pulled back to stage the next.
>A parallel air blockade would be enforced by long-range surface-to-air missiles as well as People’s Liberation Army Air Force fighters. Advanced stealth aircraft could probably get through, but not large, slow, and highly-visible cargo jets. Even if US forces disabled China’s air defense systems, aircraft could not deliver the tonnage needed to keep Taiwan in the fight.
>Neither the force the United States has today, nor the force the military services are building for the 2030s and beyond, is capable of breaking this blockade. Keeping Taiwan alive requires getting hundreds of tons into port, day after day, month after month, under heavy Chinese attack. The United States does not have nearly enough mine-clearing capacity. It does not have warships suitable for an intense, close-in, long-duration fight. It does not have the number or type of systems for prolonged attrition warfare, or the munitions inventories to sustain it. The American military has a force postured for long-range precision strike, excellent for sinking amphibious landing ships, but not for getting cargo into port.
https://www.fpri.org/article/2023/03/beyond-the-first-battle-winning-the-long-war-over-taiwan/
>If America is willing to fight this war, then it must be ready for more than the first battle.
tldr; gib more money
I mean, that's a reasonable statement. The Ukraine war has been going for over a year now, despite Russia's initial coup de main failing and Ukraine rolling back much of Russia's initial gains. It should be assumed that any future war will be a long one. The US currently has neither the missile stocks, the manpower, the ships, the shipyards, or even the fleet auxiliaries to fight a >1 year long naval war in the Pacific.
>It should be assumed that any future war will be a long one
Why? What part of this war has even resembled a modern battlefield beyond the use of drones as a recon element and low cost PGM? The complete lack of airpower, something which the US invests trillions of dollars into obtaining, using, and keeping, means that this war tells us very little about how actual wars fought by a first world nation will go. If you want to argue that a war with China will go on longer then the US is prepared for, that's a valid idea and can be defended without drawing completely moronic comparisons with the current slavic slapfight.
Dude, you just literally 180'd yourself in your own post
>why should we assume it will be a long war
>yeah China fighting longer than we're prepared to go for is a valid statement
And it's not even Ukraine. Look at how long we were fighting in the ME. That's 20 years with total air superiority and we ended up with Saigon 2.0. The wars will last as long as the opponent has the will to fight, because the idea of glassing the opponent is morally unacceptable to a Western democracy. It's part of what makes us who we are. And on the subject of China, currently they have the ability to wage a naval war over Taiwan for longer than we do. They have more shipyards, build their ships faster, and have a larger base of experienced shipyard workers. In a way they're in a similar position as the US was in WWII, while the US is closer to resembling Japan.
>they have more shipyards
they won't have them for long if a war goes hot
If you're willing to risk sparking ww3 and possibly global nuclear war instead of limiting the conflict to just Taiwan, sure
A hot war with China doesn't mean a nuclear exchange. Look at all the times Russia has threatened to go nuclear over Ukraine. If you mean regular cruise missiles from US subs, then I don't think you understand just how difficult it is to actually destroy shipyard infrastructure. There's also the part where they'd assuredly have SAMs covering vital infrastructure like that given that any of their ships that get damaged but not sunk will also get brought back to the yard for repair.
Remember, China builds around 45% of the world's commercial ships by gross tonnage. South Korea is in 2nd with around 32%, and Japan in 3rd at about 17%. The US isn't even on the map in terms of tonnage built. For what this means in a war scenario, is China will build hulls faster than the US. They have more yards, they have faster and more efficient building practices. By comparison, every US ship built is a Monet. A bespoke work of art. And the time necessary to build, modernize, and repair those ships is inordinately long as a result. For example, USS Gettysburg is just finishing up her modernization after 8 years in the SLEP program, and USS Vicksburg is next door and still covered in scaffolding after 7 years in SLEP. The US is considering selling Virginia class subs to Australia under AUKUS, but there's literally no available slips between our own construction and refit work to build the extra boats. It's fricking embarrassing that we've fallen so far from what we had.
>neither the missile stocks
I see someone doesn't read the US military procurement threads.
We currently don't have enough SM missiles to fill the launchers of every active duty USN warship, let alone give each one a reload. For the new NSM, as of a year ago, we were building about 120 a year. I've seen something from Raytheon saying that they can ramp up production on the NSM to the level the DoD wants by 2026, I've seen nothing about the SM and whether production of it is included in that. That's a long time to ramp up production and how many are they going to be building a year instead of the 120? And for that matter, how are they going to get them to the fleet during an actual shooting war? We don't have a way to resupply VLS cells at sea, so are our ships going to have to sail all the way back to Hawaii to resupply? Or are we going to try and park them at Guam and let the Chinese shoot at them with ballistic missiles while they're in port? Also on the resupply subject, we've closed the Red Hill facility in Hawaii, with no replacement. We're building new tankers for the navy, but at this rate they'll have to sail back to the west coast to refill once the battle fleet has emptied them. And for fleet auxiliaries. How are we planning to recover any ships that do get hit? Detach an LCS or DDG from the screen to tow the damaged ship to safety? Scuttle it? We had over 20 fleet tugs in service at the start of WWII, right now we have 2 (two). Our minesweepers and minelayers are all gone, and supposedly replaced by the LCS.
So yeah. I see the government announcements that they're putting more money into missiles. That's good, it's a step in the right direction. But there's a frickload of issues with the USN of today, and the navy leadership and DOTMARAD don't seem interested in trying to fix them. So I hope you understand that I'm a bit concerned about our chances of keeping China from conquering Taiwan in the short term, and in the long term if we don't unfrick our shit within the next 5-10 years.
lol
missing the point entirely
you can't just say that. explain how
>everyone who doesn’t like the CCP is see aye aye
The absurd notions of brownies and rice boys.
lmao, that fricking ramp.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_aircraft_carrier_Fujian
Its all bark. The US and China quite literally cannot afford to go to war with eachother and calling eachother's bluff on this wrongly will result in both economies imploding violently.
The prerequisite of the Taiwan war would be either:
1. China being convinced the US is detached from the matter and won't respond. Ukraine disabused them of these notions over a far lesser strategic goal.
2. Either side has engaged in a decades long decoupling attempt
>Germany and France wont go to war they're too economically reliant on each other
>Germany and the Soviet Union wont go to war they're too economically reliant on each other
>Imperial Japan and the United States wont go to war they're too economically reliant on each other
>Germany and the Soviet Union wont go to war they're too economically reliant on each other
I don't think that was actually the case.
>these countries weren't reliant on eachother
>they ended up at war
ok thanks
China's navy isn't even close to Japan's let alone Americas
Imagine how fast Japs would flatten them in the event of a Taiwan invasion. I hope they get that military reform.
US will need to put 4-5 active carriers in the region to counter the Chinese, JUST TO COUNTER. Not to gain an advantage. And even then they can't get close to Taiwan in wartime because Chinese mainland missile defense surround the area within 1000 km
>US will need to put 4-5 active carriers in the region to counter the Chinese
We have eleven with another 9 "totally-not-an-aircraft-carrier" assault ships
Yes, but we can only put ~4-5 active at any given time. So we'd need to activate 6-7 carrier fleets, which would put a dent in our peace time service upkeep.
You really think our peacetime deployment and readiness rates would stay the same if we wound up in a near-peer war for the first time in 80 fricking years?
It would take a while and also, our peace time budget would skyrocket. Meanwhile the Chinese may not even try to fight it/provoke it, and may simply institute a soft economic blockade.
Not a hard economic blockade, but rather a soft checkpoints around taiwan such that freedom of navigation is limited by the Chinese.
This may escalate into a harder economic blockade whereby they may try to intimitade/board civilian vessels.
Then a physical light-blockade of actual ramming cheap into more expensive ships, to either put them out of commission or to incur extreme cost to maintenance. (We know they're already doing that by inccuring wear/tear losses on Taiwans F-16s as the Chinese do penetration tests)
And finally, they may escalate into a hard blockade where warning shots will be fired against US ships. Afterwhich, the Chinese may sacrifice few of their ships to create a "causus belli" to destroy more expensive American ships and/or to create a stronger blockade by not responding hastily with hot war.
>which would put a dent in our peace time service upkeep.
If they're activated for war prep they'd get fully funded. Money changes shit in a major way. (I miss Saint Reagan.)
Sure, but if America does war prep, then China will too. Given that the China has a large domestic economy than the US, the question then becomes, can we match our war production capacity vs Chinese war production capacity.
Are we 200% confident that US war production capacity can match and beat Chinese war production capacity by 500%? If not, then escalation of funding is irrelevant, because China would beat the US in war production. In the past 100 years, US had the absolute dominant economic vs our foes. Whether it be Germany or Russia or Iraq or Iran or Afghan. None of them are the size of Chinese economy. Nor did they have the population of the Chinese.
If US is war prepping, then China will do as well. It then becomes an arms race that US might not be able to win.
Why do you seem to think bombing Chinese shipyards and factories is somehow off limits?
Not him, but first off you can't bomb their shit until they actually kick off the war. They'll be outbuilding us the entire time until then.
Second, I doubt it would actually be possible for us to begin with if we're bombing them with manned aircraft. Stealth is not a panacea. You could try doing hitting them from SSGNs, but first you have to know where they are and second you have to throw enough to actually impact them. China has a lot of shipyards, and shipyards are not easily destroyed with explosives. They'd likely also have air defenses. They're not dumb, they know their yards are a major strategic asset and they've been expanding and updating them heavily. They build around 45% of the world's merchant ships by tonnage today, and in the past decade they've launched around 166 ships to the USN's 66.
If we can make it too costly for them I don't think they'd pull the trigger on a Taiwan invasion, but it's definitely bleak when the CNO is claiming the US industrial base can't support building more ships but also isn't pushing to expand said industrial base.
Sorry, I assumed he meant during wartime. If it wasn't, why would we need to have 5 supercarriers in the Western Pacific to "counter" China? What would that "counter" even consist of? Are they just supposed to do circles around Guam year round until war is declared?
It's the big stick. The big stick that tells China that Taiwan really isn't worth it. If you want to keep an invasion from ever happening, you need the big stick. Waiting until they kick off the war doesn't help you, because they will own Taiwan long before we get that many carriers operational. One way to think of it is they have 3x as many VLS cells in service as the Pacific fleet has right now. If you go by the Quad (Japan, Australia, India, and PacFleet), they still have double the VLS cells. Deterrent only helps if the deterrent is actually present and threatening enough to make them doubt their ability to take Taiwan at an acceptable cost.
What's an acceptable cost to a country of 1.2bn people and an economy that cannot be embargoed without collapsing the world economy?
Do the Chinese not have object permanence? If we don't keep our entire fleet west of Gaum will they forget we have it?
With an increasingly autocratic dictatorship, they pretty much lose object permanence. Yes-men cannot deliver bad news or counter the dictator's opinions, so when grorious reader hears that there's only a few ships nearby, he muses that the US must be weak, and then the generals and admirals who know for a fact that there's multiple entire more fleets that are just kind of hanging around and ready to steam in, they can't articulate that without risking a demotion or worse. Repeat this indefinitely until the dictator does something stupid.
5 super carrier isn't "war time". 5 is minimum required just to keep a peacetime patrol around Taiwan. Right now, US doesn't protect taiwan fully. We just said 1 or two ships every now and then, but majority are outside Taiwanese space. Because Chinese missile defense range is large enough and numerous enough that we dont want to put out too many assets incase of an accident.
Chinese navy is strong and modern, yes they can blockade Taiwan, yes the US will intervene militarily.
Will China come out the victor? Probably not.
Will the US get a bloody nose? Absolutely.
>Will the US get a bloody nose? Absolutely.
They'll take some bombings in the Pacific, some costs from manufacturing etc. and that's it. Any damage will be economical.
Would the Chinese Navy find themselves in Exocet style hell if they tried to blockade Taiwan? How many antiship missiles does Taiwan have?
China's military is a paper tiger full of knockoff shit that they claim is on par with the US for optics, just like Russia. Of course until we see it in action, we have to operate under the assumption that it's real, but they will be exposed just like Putin if they ever try anything.
Considering they boost its size by declaring a bunch of fishing boats as naval vessels, probably not great.
>What is the state of the Chinese navy even like?
Unsinkable
>Unsinkable
But very carpet bombable.
The PLAN is going to get BTFO by American bombers and they are going to wonder how much one country's military can possibly frick up at one time. the AGM-158C is going to showcase American firepower to the world while creating pretty habitats for Taiwan reef fish in an ecologically friendly display of frickery