What is the most competent middle eastern army, state actor or not, other than Israel?
What is the most competent middle eastern army, state actor or not, other than Israel?
What is the most competent middle eastern army, state actor or not, other than Israel?
jordan
pic is from 2019 so take that for what you will
jordan punches well above its manpower weight with air power and very modern drone and anti air + cyber warefare
Saudi Arabia has the best gear and people but its all mercenaries very few patriots/loyalists most saudi men look down on the military so its alot of jobbers....though well trained they can be bought off
forgot pic again god damn i suck tonight
Curious on your opinion on the strength of various non-state actors and militias in MENA
Turkey is Near East.
Iraq's gotten pretty good.
By Iraq what do you mean specifically? There are tons of groups with different affiliations fighting there.
???
As in Iraq. The Iraqi Army. More specifically, ISOF.
PMU are various state sanctioned militia groups with questionable allegiances but they are not officially part of the army.
Their intelligence services seemed to have pulled their pants up and started to clamp down on jihadis.
There was CCTV footage a while back of a suspicious guy sitting at a market that was suspected to be a suicide bobber and a bunch of agents rushed him out of nowhere and apprehended him. Turns out he was some mental case with a book in his coat but it’s nice to see ballsy Iraqi guys charge suicide bombers for the greater good. There are other videos out there of cops and soldiers doing similar stuff so I guess they actually did learn some stuff through the shit how that was occupation and the ensuing ISIS civil war.
Crime in the country is down too, aside from Iranian proxy groups trying to stir shit and the occasional ISIS cell.
Their current and prior kings were both big into western education and military training. Unlike most Arab leaders, these guys put their resources to good use and bettered themselves for their country. Jordan doesn’t want a repeat of black September or get swept into run oil like all of its neighbors.
Iran’s conscripts aren’t given the same treatment as IRGC grunts like Basij. They’re not just Persians but various ethnicities and religions, most of which aren’t too savvy of the current regime which has held the military in low regard since the revolution. Old equipment galore due to the military has barely modernized outside of parade detail.
By the end of the war the country was tired of the conflict and the revolutionary zeal had greatly faded, especially since all the talk of martyrs and Karbala meant little to the families that were losing family members ranging from young boys to Grandpas. When the country stopped fighting the defensive war in the mid 80s and start at pushing into Iraq to take its territory, things started to change.
This. Idk why people give me shit when I say Iraq is in a good place and one of the best states in the region. It’s a struggle and it isn’t clean, but they have actual civil service and decent standards of civic duty, and they’re a democracy, albeit a struggling one. Unironic success story post ISIS
> Unironic success story post ISIS
People like to downplay this because it doesn’t fit into narratives.
Unsure how the country would have looked like if the US didn’t invade a second time but years and years of assistance seems to have at least paid off for now.
Can’t say the same for Afghanistan, but that’s a whole slew of other issues.
I do wonder what Iraq would have looked like if Saddam stayed in power? Would he live into the 2010s? Would the Arab spring even have occurred? If it did, would the West intervene again like so during the the tremulous time between the gulf war and 2003? Would Iran heavily support the Shia majority?
Would would Syria be like? Would Iraq’s Ba’ath support the Syrian rebels? How would Israel’s foreign policy be if Saddam stayed in power?
The Iraq war was such a monumental change in the region, it definitely soured the USA’s legacy but I can’t help but feel that Saddam’s days were numbered given the disdain much of the country had to the regime.
>Unironic success story post ISIS
how can it be post ISIS when the reason for US troops in Iraq is ISIS?
>SENIOR DEFENSE OFFICIAL:
>Let me be clear — the HMC meeting is not a negotiation about the withdrawal of U.S. forces from Iraq. The United States and the coalition are in Iraq at the invitation the Iraqi government to fight ISIS. Our Iraqi partners have assured us of their commitment toward working together to shape this future U.S. military presence and ensure the enduring defeat of ISIS.
>
>Both nations remain committed to security cooperation and our shared interest in regional stability. The United States and Iraq will continue to work together to shape future U.S. military presence and ensure an Iraqi-led enduring defeat of ISIS.
That’s probably why both nations are reviewing the reason for US troops to stay in the country, although it’s plain to see the US is mainly there to counter Iranian influence and to be of support to US troops in Syria.
But will this also involve Iraq’s Kurdistan autonomous region and the US partnership there? They’re much more welcoming to a US presence due to the strained relations with Baghdad, Ankara, and Tehran.
My vote is iraq too because even if they’re not amazing the golden division is thoroughly combat tested and cleaned house against militant groups several times in the last 10 years
but isn't the problem that a competent conventional army will fail at COIN and vice versa
A competent army can absolutely destroy an insurgent group. It's happened many times throughout history. It all comes down to how dirty you are willing to play and how much local support you can secure to deny a power base for said insurgents.
They've also had to de-escalate multiple armed standoffs with multiple militia factions and western forces too.
UAE because almost their whole military is foreigners
IRGC and Hezbollah
Oman, oddly enough.
Basically Oman had a gay sultan for a long time (He died a couple years ago), and being a gay sultan he realised that the whole being a Muslim sand person using AKs trying to shoot down jets wasn't really an effective strategy. So, instead he westernised the military and developed strong ties with the UK.
As a result, the military of Oman has Challenger 2s, Eurofighter Typhoons, F16s, M60s, AUGs, M4s and various other western military equipment. All trained by western military personal and using tactics the The West has developed over the many years they've been blowing up sand people.
>Basically Oman had a gay sultan for a long time
Qatar has one too.
What a cute couple.
This means absolutely nothing.
The quality of Arab armies is not defined by the equipment they have but by their motivation and how aligned the soldiers are to the cause they are fighting for.
The concept of nation state for example is very secondary to how Arabs think and identify (tribal and religious affiliation is much stronger).
So there are well equipped armies that will fold in one day if having to face actual combat, because they're made of civil servants collecting a paycheck who will inevitably fall back to tribal allegiance if the shit hits the fan.
Arabs also tend to follow strong men, either martial or religious strength (Ahmed Yassin was strong in this regard, despite being physically weak). They don't respect fat sultans or the kind of academic, puppet Presidents put in place by the west.
This explains why, in the middle east, non-governmental militias are often stronger than national armies. People fight infinitely harder for their tribe, their faith and their people than for a paycheck.
this.
one only needs to look at the cowardly USA hiding in their bunkers hoping that no one dies.
>This means absolutely nothing.
True. Arabs are dumbfricks who are quite literally too stupid to fight in modern war, and that's a genetic problem. Add corruption, religious extremism and degeneracy, and you're left with subhuman trash.
It's true that motivation counts in terms of getting results though, but this doesn't really make them good fighters. Religious extremism simply means they're driven to fight and won't flee, but that doesn't make them competent.
those so called Arabs literally said that the US is too stupid to fight with their moronic RoE that doesn't let the US engage Iranian forces
https://www.nytimes.com/2023/05/31/world/middleeast/uae-us-iran-maritime-security.html
This is less due to inherent cultural factors in the US and more to a very braindead appeasement-focused foreign policy towards Iran for the past couple of decades by politicians who are unable or unwilling to admit Iran doesn't deal in good faith.
>but that doesn't make them competent
On the contrary, they tend to take too much risks and expose the whole operation
Great post. Arabs are a "collective culture." The group they identify with is #1.
The Western countries drawn on a map by the French and British mean little to many of them.
i love it when people talk about things they got no clue bout
oman is less of a shithole than many european countries.
if you steal, police will arrest you
if you got trouble, you go to a secular judge, being judged under secular law
if you have medical troubles, you can just go into the hospital, will be documented
there are no power blackouts none ever
all roads are supreme condition
landside is BE AU TI FUL
people are proud omanis who love kaboos and oman
Omanis are still Khaleejis and behave the same.
Dubai is even nicer as Muscat for expats.
as long as you don't mess with Omanis or Emiratis life is good there.
I'm sure there are differences among Arab nations.
But we all know that after the first Middle East war, even the reputable Jordanian army became mediocre at once after expelling their military advisors from the West.
It is hard to imagine that Arabs in Oman or Qatar would be an exception.
It's amazing how salty almost all military advisors involeved with Arabs are, including those from the Soviet Union.
>when allah created time, he created plenty
is all you need to know about muslims
and as a work slave i can really understand that they dont want to take over "western" values. i.e. work until you die.
>i love it when people talk about things they got no clue bout
>proceeds to rattle off a bunch of irrelevant talking points indicating he has no clue what he's talking about
yep
Your post looks like a well informed opinion, but in reality, it’s bullshit.
>but by their motivation and how aligned the soldiers are to the cause they are fighting for.
Isn’t this the same for every army in the world?
>The concept of nation state for example is very secondary to how Arabs think and identify (tribal and religious affiliation is much stronger).
Tribes are only a thing for some arab countries (mostly gulf countries). Egypt, syria, Lebanon, and north africa mostly have families not tribes.
>Arabs also tend to follow strong men, either martial or religious strength (Ahmed Yassin was strong in this regard, despite being physically weak)
Ahmed yassin was well respected for his stances and achievements despite his disability. He was not a religious or military leader thou
Also people all over the world follow strong men. No one likes following weak men.
>People fight infinitely harder for their tribe, their faith and their people than for a paycheck
And for nonarabs they fight for their paycheck stronger than any thing else?
>Tribes are only a thing for some arab countries (mostly gulf countries). Egypt, syria, Lebanon, and north africa mostly have families not tribes.
what's the difference between tribe and family?
Family is mostly small. They don’ have any leader to the family (sheikh).
It’s the same as the last names in the west.
Beduins usually identify by their tribes while nonbeduins identify by their home village or city.
>Beduins usually identify by their tribes while nonbeduins identify by their home village or city.
looking at wiki, there aren't only beduins in KSA.
do other saudis then have their home village as "tribe" or is it family?
I am not really sure about non-beduin saudis but the gulf in general tend to have tribes rather than families.
But these days, even in the gulf, they beginning to view their countries as their tribe rather than their individual tribes.
>Also people all over the world follow strong men. No one likes following weak men.
That's not what strong man means, a strong man is a tin pot dictator with an outsized cult of personality.
>And for nonarabs they fight for their paycheck stronger than any thing else?
At least in the west yes. Money is our religion and our tribe.
let's try to bribe the police in the west and see what happens
>Their highest loyalty is their paycheck!
>That must mean they are easy to bribe!
No moron, it means they receive adequate compensation to where the risks of bribery aren't worth it.
>cops in the west never take bribes
kek, maybe not for a speeding ticket
>At least in the west yes. Money is our religion and our tribe.
Money only makes people do things as long as they are not risky or at least there is a high chance that they succeed.
There is a reason why every war is preceded by huge propaganda campaign to motivate the people and make them think they actually are defending themselves or at least fighting for a good cause.
>That's not what strong man means, a strong man is a tin pot dictator with an outsized cult of personality.
Most arabs don’t like being ruled by dictators.
Sisi is a dictator and he is one of the most hated presidents. The same applies for assad.
Dictators are just more effective at suppressing any uprising against them.
Iran on paper has a pretty big army but they remain to be seen in real combat. Other than that Hezbollah but they're looking like a meme right now.
Didn't they all run away from ISIS a couple years back
Jordan, followed by Egypt or the Roaches (if you consider them middle eastern)
usa
>other than israel
>other than Israel?
Israel proved to everyone that they're worthless and dogshit like arabs/muslims, only their fancy toys and western countries bails them out
Goat fricker cope.
What cope?They are fumbling Gaza almost as bad as the Saudis did in Yemen.Hell at least the Saudis had the excuse they were fighting an actual mountainous militia that could hide from their modern PGM spam and also did it with their own money,unlike the israelites that are getting re-supllied by uncle sam for free,
that's delusional.
IDF does remarkable in Gaza with almost perfect execution of urban warfare.
>They are fumbling Gaza
If this is a funble I'd love to see a touchdown
>you’re brown
Egyptians can punch above their weight when they get their heads out of their asses for two seconds.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Badr_(1973)
>ODs and goggles M1. Oh my god they even have choco chip helmet covers
Is Egypt like the only competent nation to fight Israel?
They fight reasonably well within the limits of what the Egyptian general staff would have them prepare before war.
Arabs are stupid illiterate and lack initiative in battle.
When the combat situation deviates from the plot prepared by their generals, they instantly go to shit.
Jordan gave a good showing during the Six Day war, despite being under Egyptian leadership (Nasser Egyptian armed forces were much worse then the one Sadat had).
how's that relevant today?
Jordan in the Six-Day War was still basically the British Arab Legion. It's been arabized since then.
It's about as relevant as comparing the modern Egyptian military to the one Sadat had. The question was if Egypt was the only competent army to fight Israel. Which Jordan was.
Hezbollah repelled two Israeli invasions so take of that what you will.
More that just is an operation that plays exactly to the strengths Egypt has
>plenty of time to plan it out
>carefully choreographed
>against a defending enemy so you don’t have to worry about them taking the initiative
>under your own SAM belt
>short-range, limited logistics issues
The moment they then tried to move to mobile warfare they got wiped out and encircled
I don't care much for Arabs but despite its failure, Badr was beautifully executed and I won't have anyone say otherwise
>The moment they then tried to move to mobile warfare they got wiped out and encircled.
The mobilization was not part of the plan. The original plan was to stay within the sam range so the forces don’t get obliterated by the israeli air forces. It was meant to be a war of attrition as they knew israel can’t sustain a war for a long time and that will force them to negotiate.
However, sadat came up with the idea of mobilization. His excuse was to decrease the pressure on the Syrian front. Many of his generals, including el Shazly (the general who planned operation bader) opposed sadat and considered it a suicide move. Sadat, however, insisted and proceeded with his plan which ultimately failed.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saad_el-Shazly
Hezbollah
As if those morons keep their uniforms on when the shooting starts. That's how it always is with terrorist shits, they make a big song and dance about their Professional Military looks and then go right back to t-shirts and sandals and hide amongst civvies when someone actually comes for them.
It's the propaganda aspect. Give an air of competence (and more importantly legitimacy)
This might have had legitimacy 15 years ago, but they have been fighting as a uniformed professional army in Syria for over a decade now.
>The Middle East (term originally coined in English [see § Terminology][note 1]) is a geopolitical region encompassing the Arabian Peninsula, the Levant, Turkey, Egypt, Iran, and Iraq.
>Today, the terms Near East and Middle East are used interchangeably to refer to the same region
>This might have had legitimacy 15 years ago, but they have been fighting as a uniformed professional army in Syria for over a decade now.
wrong. they have no real uniform and wear whatever.
they are unlawful combatants under the Geneva convention, not Lebanese soldiers.
> then go right back to t-shirts and sandals and hide amongst civvies
>they have no real uniform
>posts picture of a bunch of guys in military uniforms
Anon...
>they are unlawful combatants under the Geneva convention, not Lebanese soldiers.
You are correct about this part though, not sure why you are bringing it up though because it was never in dispute.
Turkey
not middle eastern
It absolutely is by every definition of 'middle east' i've ever seen.
If you've got one where it isn't I'd love to hear it.
Turkey is NEAR EAST, dumbass.
Prolly ISIS or the Taliban.
>other than Israel?
It never was Israel moron. Its probably Iran with Turkey as a close second
I would unironically nominate Iran. Apart from Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps morons their army looks quite competent(by ME standards). But what elevates them is their nationalistic zeal their neighbors lack. Their tenacity during Iraq-Iran war would put Stalin to shame.
Iran by about 500 miles ahead of everyone.
If we talking minors then Syria. They have most experience as well as everything they got from Russia.
UAE just has a bunch of shiny toys and 3 braincells to use them.
Egypt could possibly be there on par since they are a military junta
Qatars has experience as they’re mostly mercs led by an Aussie. They’ve done a lot of work with the RSF prior to the Sudanese civil war and used them in Yemen for counter insurgency training.
Jordan is also considered good.
Saudis are very much all the gear no idea tier military.
Anon I think you're confusing the UAE having Mike Hindmarsh run the show there.
Probably Hezbollah.
are we watching the same Syrian civil war?
they are nothing special. Turkey slaughtered their allegedly elite Radwan unit.
Turkey, Iran or Jordan
Egypt
To anyone rating Egypt, they got dabbed on by fricking CYPRUS
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Egyptian_raid_on_Larnaca_International_Airport
The 70s were a wild time. All kinds of incidents like this that i've never even heard of.
> As Cypriot forces were trying to negotiate with the hostage-takers at the airport, Egyptian troops launched their own assault without authorization from the Cypriots. The unauthorized raid led to the Egyptians and the Cypriots exchanging gunfire, killing or injuring more than 20 of the Egyptian commandos.
Fricking hell
>Cypriot national guard strength: 65 persons - one infantry platoon from 395 Battalion (35 persons with two 0.50 M2 Brownings and two M40 A/T guns) and a commando platoon (30 persons)
Fricking hell
>Egyptian losses: 15 commandos killed[3]
3 members of the C-130 crew killed
18 commandos wounded
1 C-130 aircraft destroyed
1 Jeep all-terrain vehicle destroyed
Fricking hell
meanwhile America's tier-1 SOF:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Eagle_Claw
At scale? Iran. Only in airpower do they lag Israel.
Arabs may lose tactical wars. But how about considering the political, ideological and propaganda war in the long run?
>https://twitter.com/Skepwood/status/1750522247524339883
Because in one hand, Arabs are seemingly excellent at the propaganda war. Which one has to worry that in the long run, Arabs can win the wars through ideology, propaganda and support and help from Leftism.
Also Israeli propagandists make a "super hero" only to be ratio'd by the majority:
https://twitter.com/StandWithUs/status/1399032857713127424
https://twitter.com/ComfyPill0w/status/1751426519564722552
Do not underestimate Arabs and Leftists in propaganda and ideology wars.
Its not even arabs and leftists being good at it, its just israel being contemptibly, pathetically bad at it.
Wait, I thought israelites owned all the media though?
It leads to some good laughs too when I see for lack of a better word loose presenting dangerhairs simping for terrorist organizations that would unflinchingly rape them they burn them alive for "tempting" them into raping them. And for being bi. It's a real mindfrick.
where are all those rape and burn alive victims?
Ahmed, sorry to say this but... You're not getting that ceasefire or Israel-being-guilty-trials anytime sooner. Also Yemen ain't that much help to you guys either.
terrorists killed some US soldiers now.
Biden is in a corner.
Biden knows that terrorists will only further escalate.
Biden will have to attack Iran at some point if there's no ceasefire soon.
Well here's the thing. Even with escalation, the United States, Western Europe and the whole "Global North" are still gonna stand strong intact. The Arab jihadis and "Global South" forces, are just gonna be a big gapping crater or look like planet Reach after the Covenant glasses it.
meanwhile at today's presser:
>MS. SINGH: Well, look, I -- I think I said this in -- earlier -- we don't seek a war with Iran, we don't seek to widen this conflict. We have said and we will continue to call out the fact that Iran does fund and equip these -- these groups and provide them the capabilities that they use to attack our service members, whether it be Iraq, Syria, or Jordan.
>
>So, we're not going to hesitate in calling that out, but we certainly don't seek a war, and frankly, we don't see Iran wanting to seek a war with the United States.
>Unless there's a ceasefire between Israel and HAMAS soon, America will be forced to invade Iran.
Do you homosexuals even read the mindbroken shit you write?
who are you quoting?
68 IQ reply. Right on time.
Hey friend. I suggest you "lurk moar" (aka: read more and post less). See, here at PrepHole we have a sort of unspoken style guide for how to format posts. For example, the "greater than" symbol is often used for quoting something another poster said, but you aren't directly quoting anything from that poster. Just giving you some heads up, so you don't look like a "newbie" (just a little joke, we're not really homophobic here haha).
Are you moronic anon, its almost a direct quote from the post he's replying to.
there's a ceasefire between Israel and HAMAS soon, America will be forced to invade Iran.
>Biden will have to attack Iran at some point if there's no ceasefire soon.
In case there's any doubt about what ceasefire, that post is a response to
>Ahmed, sorry to say this but... You're not getting that ceasefire or Israel-being-guilty-trials anytime sooner.
sure, see
nothing to see here, Iranian proxies aren't killing US soldiers in response to Gaza. totally unrelated.
Iran has been blowing up US troops in the Middle East for decades. The Persians want to conquer the Arabs and kick the US out.
>Biden will have to attack Iran at some point if there's no ceasefire soon.
it would be the best decision that limp-wristed homosexual ever made.
He and what army?
here are your average Lebanese.
weird that IDF bombed them and not Hezbollah.
Hezbollah.
ISIS
They wiped out 2 conventional armies and fought at several fronts at the same time. They were expanding at a very fast pace they almost took the entirety of iraq and syria with basic weapons.
If it wasn’t for their enemies air forces and the involvement of russia and USA they would have won.
Unfortunately the question was in the present tense.
>Ctrl-F
>Nothing about Kurds
Which Kurds?
PKK? YPG? PJAK? KDP? PUK?
There’s a few groups, although most of them then fall under the KCK umbrella due to a shared interest in ideology.
>KDP? PUK?
aren't those merged now
Iraqi Kurdistan has always been divided between two major factions. They even had their own little civil war back in the day. Barzani’s clan is backed by Turkey and other nations while his faction’s rival is not. They’re butting heads while trying to maintain peace and stability in the region. KCK’s Iraqi branch is b& but there is the PKK fighting against Turks in the mountains on the border so that’s something :/
> Formally, the Peshmerga are under the command of the Ministry of Peshmerga Affairs of the Kurdistan Regional Government. In practice, however, the Peshmerga's structure is largely divided and controlled separately by the two Iraqi Kurdish political parties: the Democratic Party of Kurdistan and the Patriotic Union of Kurdistan. Though unifying and integrating the Peshmerga has been on the Kurdistan Region's public agenda since 1992, the individual forces remain divided due to factionalism, which has proved to be a major stumbling block.
Why don't all the nafris and other Termagant worshippers go back to their superior functioning countries if they're so proud
>other than Israel
Israel is in no way competent, they literally surrounded their own troops with mines that caused a chain explosion that killed 21 soldiers.
you are incompetent for thinking those demolition charges were mines